Talk:Župa dubrovačka

Župa dubrovačka or Župa Dubrovačka?

@Frank b26: and others. Župa dubrovačka or Župa Dubrovačka? Then we can also solve the problem in Commons: Commons:Commons:Categories for discussion/2019/02/Category:Župa dubrovačka--Estopedist1 (talk) 14:40, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is a proper name (of a geographic region) and therefore both words should be capitalised in English - i.e. English wiki should have it as Župa Dubrovačka. I assume the confusion stems from native (i.e. Croatian) orhography of the name. Specifically, Croatian language rule for proper names of geographical regions is to capitalise only the first word in compound names. Thus, for instance we have English language article Hrvatsko Zagorje and Croatian hr:Hrvatsko zagorje.--Tomobe03 (talk) 15:00, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As an aside and for reference, if it were a settlement (a village or a town rather than a municipality), the name would be in title case (with both words uppercase) in Croatian as well.--Tomobe03 (talk) 15:04, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I actually disagree with this proper name equals English orthography logic without a rationale. Why? What's the reference for this? "Župa Dubrovačka" is not an English name for the place, it's still a foreign name for the place. We recently had a similar discussion at Talk:Banski dvori where I also didn't get any answers to my questions. I'm particularly concerned here because it seems like a slippery slope into also e.g. precluding all diacritics, using arbitrary spelling, etc. --Joy 18:25, 8 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've been wondering about this myself for a while. I tend to follow local practice when in doubt (e.g. Borovo Naselje, but Cvjetno naselje). IMO inheriting original capitalisation gives our articles a more professional look. I'm as annoyed with finding e.g. "Frankopanska Ulica" in an English text as I would be with "5th avenue" or "London city". It gives off the air of a cheap, guidebook-quality translation. However, I can absolutely see how using sentence case could look unexpected and jarring to a native English speaker, especially when the term isn't unambiguously separated from the surrounding text by wikilinking.

P.S. After some digging around I found MOS:PROPER which seems to suggest these should be capitalised. Daß Wölf 20:50, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but the same part of the manual of style says capitalize English words and do not prefer foreign terms where English exist. And in one case it explicitly says - if you are not sure whether the English translation of a foreign name is exact or not, assume it is rough and use lower case. And even that example there seems to include three English words, not a series of untranslated, verbatim foreign words. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 08:43, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]