Talk:Äynu language

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Untitled

From what I understand of Aini, it's more of a mixed language than a true Turkic language. The vocabulary is almost all Persian, but the grammar is Turkic. Should we change the classification to Mixed Language? Straughn 16:19, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is a section that says Aini is a secret language. I doubt this is true. Can someone verify this?

Not a mixed language

According to Lars Johansson (pg 21-22, ref in article), Aynu is not a mixed language. (Taivo (talk) 20:53, 20 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Per Hayasi et al., who actually did field work among the Aynu, it is a mixed language. Also, Bakker, who does typological work on mixed languages, considers it a mixed language. Johansson appears to be taking the stance that the classification of a language should be based entirely on its grammar, and would therefore consider CIA or Michif mixed languages, but not, for example Media Lengua. I'll include a citation of Bakker in the article. Straughn (talk) 16:57, 21 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Most linguists are wary of "mixed language" claims and feel that they are too freely thrown about (English has been called a "mixed language"). I think that Johansson is just taking the conservative point-of-view (which I happen to share) that the technical definition of "mixed language" is not completely met by Aynu. If I read him correctly, then Aynu still has a base vocabulary that is Turkic in origin. If this is the case, then Aynu is not a mixed language according to definition. Michif is a true mixed language--Cree verbs and verb morphology, French nouns and noun morphology. What I read about Aynu is Turkic grammar, Turkic base vocabulary, a lot of Persian loanwords. That's not a mixed language. But the only sources I have access to here in Ukraine are the online Johansson article ("Map...") and The Turkic Languages (which doesn't seem to mention Aynu). (Taivo (talk) 20:04, 21 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Just read your user page, at least you're a real linguist so I can trust you know the way linguists work. Sometimes here on Wikipedia.... I'm still not completely convinced that Aynu is a mixed language, but tom[e]to/tom[a]to. You might want to note in the article that not all linguists agree with the mixed language assessment and ref Johansson's "map" article. Cheers (Taivo (talk) 20:48, 21 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]

From what I understand, all lexical content is Persian and all grammatical content is Uyghur. I'll have to find some more references on how it all works, especially verbs, which would be the most problematic in the context of Persian-Turkic mixture. I'll check out what Hayasi says and adjust everything accordingly. Straughn (talk) 21:43, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Numerals

The article says, "Äynu numerals are borrowed from Persian". Does this mean they actually use the Persian variant of the Eastern Arabic numerals (۰۱۲۳۴۵۶۷۸۹)? Or is it just that the names of the numbers were adapted from the Persian words? - dcljr (talk) 05:30, 26 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For most people, "numerals" means those 10 glyphs used for writing numbers. But for linguists, numerals means the number words of a given language. Johanna-Hypatia (talk) 12:26, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Karluk or Siberian?

The article says, "Some linguists call it a mixed language, having a mostly Turkic grammar, essentially Uyghur, but a mainly Iranian vocabulary.", meaning that Äynu is a Karluk language, instead of Siberian as Glottolog states.

Furthermore, the Uyghur language article states: "It is closely related to Äynu, Lop, Ili Turki, the extinct language Chagatay (the East Karluk languages), and more distantly to Uzbek (which is West Karluk)." Sakaiberian (talk) 21:30, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]