Wikipedia talk:WikiProject YouTube/Notability

Out of curiosity

While I applaud Curb Safe Charmer for taking the time to do a rather detailed analysis of the situation regarding YouTube notability possibilities, at the moment it sounds like your conclusions are "there is no specific notability guide for YouTubers outside of GNG." Am I misreading it? Primefac (talk) 12:50, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for getting the conversation started, Primefac! I think what I'm looking to achieve is consensus on whether there needs to be a specific notability guideline. If there is a need, and we can establish what the guideline would say, then I would hope it would help avoid a bunch of AfDs, and for those articles that are discussed at AfD, inform the discussion. If nothing else, at least there would be some consistency to those discussions, whether it be to entirely ignore subscriber count and focus on reliable secondary sources, or whatever. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 12:56, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Principles

On the principle "If a YouTuber doesn't have a lot of subscribers, that's grounds for a speedy delete.", I disagree. I think that if a small YouTuber has significant coverage in the news, yet has a small fanbase instead of the groudns for a speedy delete, it should be a proposed merge to the YouTuber's name. What do you guys think? Jamesjpk (talk) 15:46, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

That bit probably needs tweaking - the intention when I wrote it was as follows: someone creates and article about a YouTuber (either the YouTuber themselves writes it autobiographically, or it is written by a fan). It is nominated for deletion. The author defends the article on the basis that the subject is a 'popular YouTuber'. They have say 100,000 followers. By the author's measure, that's a huge number, but in the big scheme of things it isn't. From a notability perspective, we'd be looking at YouTubers with millions of subscribers as potentially a good subject for an article. If that person has had substantial independent coverage from reliable sources, then they pass GNG, and their subscriber count is irrelevant. However, if they don't have substantial secondary coverage then that, combined with a modest number of subscribers means that the article would be unlikely to survive AfD. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 16:38, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

How about considering both subscriber count and view count? —andrybak (talk) 13:55, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

The subscriber count is more closely related to notability as it relates to the YouTuber. The view count, in contrast, relates to a specific video. Someone might have one video that has gone viral and had a very large number of views of that video, but nothing else that they've produced has generated any attention. Similarly, they may be of temporary popularity, but never become notable. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 17:14, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Question about the AfD discussions chart

Should we update the subscriber counts on that chart with channels' current counts? Or should they be left alone as records of how many subs the channels had when the AfD discussions took place? Clbsfn (talk) 01:36, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

The count is intended to reflect the approximate number of subscribers when the AfD took place, so that we can see what influence if any the number had on the outcome.

I did consider adding another column to reflect the current count as an indicator of how much the YouTube's subscribers have grown over time. Do you think that would add value, and if so, how? Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 06:35, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Subs-at-AFD is the only metric that makes sense. No reason to constantly update the subs for a deleted page. Can't see how it would affect the outcome. Primefac (talk) 12:08, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Would it be useful to add a column to the table giving SocialBlade's "Xth-most subscribed" channel data? To me that's an important part of placing subscriber numbers in context. valereee (talk) 12:49, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

@Valereee: I am happy to add it, though I don't know to what extent the community will take it into account at AfD. Until now, the WP:BIGNUMBER argument or that subscriber counts can be manipulated have frequently been given as reasons to ignore how many subscribers a YouTuber has when assessing notability. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 13:10, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Curb Safe Charmer I agree, I don't know whether people will listen. But I'm hoping once they see these numbers, they'll understand the point. For instance Mark Dice has 1.5 million subscribers, making him ~the 7000th most-subscribed channel. I think that's pretty telling. Should we really be considering that evidence for notability? valereee (talk) 13:29, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

@Valereee: in that example, he clearly meets WP:GNG so the number of subscribers is moot. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 13:33, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm not questioning his notability -- just whether we should be using raw numbers to support notability, and whether we should be reporting the 1.5 million unless we also report the 7000th ranking. valereee (talk) 13:36, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

WP:GNG and/VS WP:ENT

Your comment However, in practice, editors involved in deletion debates consider that a YouTuber needs to meet *both* WP:GNG *and* WP:ENT raises an important point. In my opinion and in other Talk pages for other subject-specific guidelines, the "rule" is that *every* article should/must meet GNG but the individual guidelines provide clarification and examples to assist with "translating" general guidelines to subject-specific ones. I assume there may be some exceptions to this "rule" but I can't think of any. HighKing⁺⁺ 19:57, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

ENT with its significant cult following is rather obscure, in porn-AFDs some folks argued that ENT "replaced" PORNBIO, but NARTIST could be clearer if applicable. AFAIK there's no such thing as an "addition to GNG", notable per GNG is always good enough. Everything alse are only generally accepted shortcuts such as NPRROF, NARTIST, NALBUM, or ENT to figure it out.
Remotely related, while a few editors still add "historic" results to WP:NYOUTUBE#AfD discussions the project is apparently dead, cf. WT:WikiProject YouTube#Closing shop? –84.46.52.96 (talk) 23:28, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Keep/delte tally

What do you think to make column for analyse by "most subscribers by country" a ka

top 1 in country - % keep Dawid2009 (talk) 11:48, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Question

@Primefac: Am I allowed to update the list of AfD discussions? QuicoleJR (talk) 18:52, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Not sure why you're asking me specifically, but I don't see any reason why not. Primefac (talk) 09:53, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

You were the only other person I saw here, and I figured my query would be missed if I didn't ping someone. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:07, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough. I forgot I had this page on my watchlist :-p Primefac (talk) 07:49, 3 July 2023 (UTC)