Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sumo/Archive 7 2022 - 2023

Heya changes

This is really just a reminder to myself to update all this stuff! Oguruma is closing Feb 7 with its personnel being split between a new Oshiogawa stable run by ex-Takekaze and Nishonoseki stable, where ex-Yoshikaze will coach. Goeido is going to open his own Takekuma stable (we never made an article on the previous incarnation of Takekuma from the early 2000s). Tomozuna is going to change its name to Oshima stable with ex-Kyokutenho swapping elder names. Of course, he was a member of the original Oshima stable but I guess Tomozuna stable will need to be moved to Oshima stable (2022) to distinguish it from the earlier version. -- Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:57, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources

Main page: User:Headbomb/unreliable

I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like

• John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14. (John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.)

and turns it into something like

• John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{cite web}}, {{cite journal}} and {{doi}}.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:02, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Category:Sumo wrestlers who use their birth name

Some months back, Ishiura changed the 'given name' portion of his shikona away from his birth name, Masakatsu, to Shikanosuke. Should he be removed from Category:Sumo_wrestlers_who_use_their_birth_name, or does his continued use of the surname portion still qualify him for inclusion? Agricolae (talk) 18:49, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

My view is that if he has used his full birth name for a substantial part of his sekitori career, he can stay in the category. Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:55, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

I think a better category than birth name would be "Sumo wrestlers who use their surname". Unless this already exists; but either way I think just one category for surname is best. 08:24, 25 August 2022 (UTC) FourTildes (talk) 08:24, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

It doesn't exist as of yet, we could either create a new one or get the birth name one re-named at WP:CFD. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:58, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Active wrestlers update

I essentially always do the active wrestlers article rankings update when the banzuke comes out but I will be much busier than usual at that time: from 6 am August 29th Japan time. Would someone like to volunteer to update? It’s a slight learning curve but it’s all explained in an early section of the talk page for the active wrestlers list. FourTildes (talk) 02:11, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Hey FT, looks like you got logged out somehow :) I'll do it if no-one else gets to it first. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:41, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I was on my phone and saw it didn't register as me, but then forgot to come back and fix it. Cheers on the heads up and the offer. FourTildes (talk) 02:11, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

Well, the project that would keep me very busy was moved to later in the week, and I got the day off on Monday, so I have MORE time than usual to do the active wrestlers banzuke update; and I do actually enjoy doing it, so I'll do it if no one mind. :D FourTildes (talk) 04:52, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Hibikiryu

He doesn't qualify for notability through the normal means for a rikishi, but I think an article on the late Hibikiryu is warranted. There are quite a few English-language sources on the in-ring injury that left him paralyzed and ultimately resulted in his death; for instance [1] [2] [3]. These days I don't have the time to contribute that much, otherwise I'd whip up a draft. Apologies if this has been discussed before. Lkb335 (talk) 22:04, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

@Lkb335: I don't think it's been discussed. There are definitely sources out there, I agree. We do have an article on Shobushi, another low-ranker who tragically died. The only thing he might fall foul of is only being known for one event. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:32, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Right. "Death of Hibikiryu" could be the article instead, to avoid WP:BIO1E concerns. I'd personally be more inclined toward an article on the wrestler himself, but, again, I won't be the one writing it either way. Lkb335 (talk) 04:11, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

A section in Controversies in professional sumo is also a possibility. Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:56, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Kuramae Kokugikan

I have completely reorganized the article on the Kuramae Kokugikan, some comments and proofreading would be appreciated. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by OtharLuin (talk • contribs) 14:11, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Ryogoku Kokugikan

I plan to completely rewrite the Kokugikan article. I already edited my sandbox with a good article but I fail to have more sources, so if anyone could look at it OtharLuin (talk) 15:18, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Quick note : I'm giving myself until the 6th of October to propose the new version in the article :) (also ping to barnastars holders and wikipedian veterans FourTildes Pawnkingthree Tigerboy1966 sorry for mass ping :D) 16:53, 20 October 2022 (UTC) OtharLuin (talk) 16:53, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

@OtharLuin:, great work! Definitely a huge improvement on the existing article and the sources generally look good. My only question would be on puroresu.com which is described in the references as a blog. Generally those aren't considered reliable sources per WP:SPS. -- Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:32, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Hey thanks ! Concerning Puroresu I qualified it as a blog but honestly it's more because I don't really know what kind of website it could be otherwise. Puroresu.com is also refered in the wikipedia article on Japanese Pro-wrestling as "Puroresu.com" so I guess I'll make an edit. And also, do you think I sould invert the two parts of the article, so the current Kokugikan would serve as general illustration ; or just stick to chronological presentation ? OtharLuin (talk) 18:03, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

I think chronological is best. And puroresu.com does seem to be self-published, although Hisaharu Tanabe could be described as a subject matter expert so it might be ok. Pawnkingthree (talk) 00:15, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Just seeing this. Great stuff. Thanks for the heads up, as you can see I'm not here as much as I used to be. I also like to be the first one to break the indent chain :) FourTildes (talk) 20:08, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Atamifuji

Hello everyone, I have been lurking and editing some sumo articles independently for some months now, but I think its a good idea to join the project.

Also, I have created the Atamifuji page, now that he is confirmed to be in makuuchi. Kaitetsu (talk) 17:18, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Welcome aboard! I will have to make sure I don't confuse you with Kaiketsu :) Thanks for creating Atamifuji - certainly a lot of interest in him at the moment. -- Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:27, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! Its alright hahaah. If anyone has any criticisms or any tips of how this WP does things, please message me, Im happy to learn. Kaitetsu (talk) 12:06, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Ajigawa Stable article

The article that was created about Ajigawa Stable has been moved to draftspace because it apparently doesn't meet general notability guidelines, something which does not exist in the article's Japanese counterpart. Was wondering if there was anything else that could be done to add notability. Listing a heya in List of sumo stables without a proper article just doesn't sit right. JRHorse (talk) 20:29, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

The Japanese article looks just as bare bones as ours. There probably isn't much more to say right now, and there may not be any other sources than the news reports of the December 1 announcement which are already in the article. Something I've wondered about is whether we could merge heya articles that have the same kabu attached to them, even if they are otherwise unrelated - that is, have one article on Ajigawa stable and say that it existed from 1979 to 2007 and then was revived in 2022. Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:14, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Yeah I asked myself the same question about one article per main kabu" but that would be really confusing. I believe an infobox on stables would be better, so we could mention the previous incarnations. I'll do some research to add an infobox, maybe in 2023. Appart from that I don't think having the list of sumo stables without proper articles is really bad OtharLuin (talk) 18:54, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Another report here about an opening event at the stable. Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:21, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

I see that someone else decided to create the article again... I'll do my best to add this reference in a little later. JRHorse (talk) 12:13, 20 December 2022 (UTC)

Reference added. JRHorse (talk) 17:29, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Just checking in

Hi Project. I saw an old message from Pawnkingthree on my talk page and thought I would check in. I can't believe it has been almost 15 years since this project started and it is still going. I haven't been watching much sumo recently but I finally was able to make it to a basho last September for the first time in a while -- instantaneous sellouts for many years followed by the pandemic made it difficult to go -- reminded me of how fun watching sumo can be. I ended up doing some cleanup on some cricket pages -- when I was living in the US I watched a lot of sumo and now that I live in Japan I got into cricket, which maybe says something about me -- but I guess I was also reminded of how much I enjoyed editing Wikipedia. Maybe I can help with some Japanese sources these days around here. We'll see how it goes. XinJeisan (talk) 06:29, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi User:XinJeisan thanks for stopping by :) I can't believe it's been that long either. It was actually my desire to write about sumo that got me into editing Wikipedia all those years ago, and you setting up WP:SUMO certainly helped with that. A lot of WikiProjects have come and home but we're still here, with some new contributors too. Would be great if you could help with some sourcing - we always need that, particularly with some of our older articles. Take care. Pawnkingthree (talk) 02:56, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Updating wrestlers career bios

Hi all, I'm new here. I've slowly been updating some pages to bring the career details up to date. So far I've done Meisei, Kotoeko, Hiradoumi, Tobizaru and Wakatakakage. Plan to to get all those who were in makuuchi in January up to date. Zeieg (talk) 12:47, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi Zeieg - that's great! Thanks for helping out! Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:57, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Hakuhō Cup

I recently submitted a draft on the Hakuhō Cup as it's been 13 years it started. With the amount of sources I think it'll pass but I'm still unsure on the presentation, so give it a look if you want to give me a hand OtharLuin (talk) 09:24, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Tottori Jōhoku High School

An article I wrote on Tottori Jōhoku High School just got brought back in the draft section due to lack of notability. Given Jōhoku High is well known for its sumo team (and I went around to link wrestlers who graduated from it to the article) and I wonder if anyone could help me expand the sumo section of the article or at least give me a proofread? I also asked the WikiProject Baseball for some help. OtharLuin (talk) 13:45, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi, yes I saw that move back to draft. I am tempted to just revert it (AFC is entirely voluntary, after all), but I will have a look for some more sources first. Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:57, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi! Thanks Pawnking, I was a bit stunned when I saw the article was moved back as I thought 11 or so references would do while articles like Tottori College or Tottori University of Environmental Studies exists... Thanks for the help ~ OtharLuin (talk) 19:12, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Project-independent quality assessments

Quality assessments by Wikipedia editors rate articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class= parameter to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.

No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.

However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present. Aymatth2 (talk) 14:36, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

Sanctuary Netflix TV series

Hi! Sanctuary, the Netflix series on sumo, will air on May, 4 and I began to create a sandbox for the series. I however found there is already quite a lot of series named "Sanctuary". So I wonder how I should call the article.

• Sanctuary: Seiichi, like the original name of the series
• Sanctuary (2023 TV series)
• Sanctuary (sumo TV series)
• should I add "Netflix" in the title ?

any idea ? OtharLuin (talk) 15:24, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Satonofuji

Just wanted folks in the project to know that I created an article this week on the bow-twirler Satonofuji in case anyone wishes to improve on it. JRHorse (talk) 11:10, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Sumo trophies and reward ceremony

Hi everyone, as you may know I'm writing a draft list for the trophies awarded at the Grand Sumo closing ceremony. During an exchange I had with a WikiProject Awards user, it was suggested to me that the article should be split in two so that I could have the full list on one hand and an article giving a little more detail about the ceremony on the other. At the moment I'm not sure what to make of this, so I'm sounding out everyone's opinions... - OtharLuin (talk) 09:36, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

I think the exchange you had with the Wikiprojects Awards project user is on the money: the intro is kind of long for a list article so maybe shortening it and putting it somewhere in the main sumo article with a link to just the list of trophies would be good. It's a good list too, info on the trophies is hard to find in English and often very outdated so keep working on it! - Hidenotora (talk) 14:19, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for the reply! I'm not so sure that placing the intro in Sumo would be such a good idea, the article is already very long and sometimes gets lost in "sub-articles". I'd consider creating a Professional sumo ceremonies article instead, but that's just a thought as I'm not sure I'll find enough sources (yet) to make it noteworthy or sourced enough... - OtharLuin (talk) 14:53, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Yeah you're probably right that the sumo article is also too long, maybe its own article would be better. I'd be fine with most things to be honest, however I'm not sure what Wikipedia policy is or what other people would think. Thanks for the hard work! Hidenotora (talk) 15:47, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Quick discussion relaunch with mention of more experienced users for advice (Pawnkingthree JRHorse) - OtharLuin (talk) 07:07, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks.. Your sandbox was blanked, but seeing the previous edit it looks very well done. I am split on whether or not this should be two articles. For the flow of the award ceremony I think a few more sources would be beneficial if you can find them. Other random thoughts... to my knowledge there has been no "live" playing of Kimigayo since the onset of the pandemic, so I'm not sure if that is worth mentioning. Also the tournament that happened in 2010 2011 after the betting scandal technically was referred to something on the lines of a "Technical Tournament" and not a "grand sumo tournament," hence the reason why nothing was awarded other than the trophies mentioned. JRHorse (talk) 12:16, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, thanks for the reply! For the sandbox it's normal I opened a draft on the theme List of sumo trophies. I'll edit the original link. For the awards ceremony there could indeed be more sources, I will continue my research. I would still include the Japanese anthem, however, because hopefully the live performances will continue, the COVID period being, I imagine, only temporary. Concerning the 2011 tournament, I'm quite surprised, the sources I relied on make it look like an official tournament... I'll modify accordingly. Thanks again for the feedback - OtharLuin (talk) 12:37, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

re: Technical Examination Tournament, here's an article from a while back. It's also noted in some other wiki articles which I'll try to source if needed. JRHorse (talk) 13:30, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

re: Just a quick look to make sure we're talking about the same thing. Before mentioning the cancelled 2011 tournament, the draft mentioned an award ceremony at the July 2010 tournament that was abbreviated to just the winner's flag and sansho prizes. The 2011 tournament was indeed cancelled and null and void, but it was two different events that had an impact on the trophy ceremony. - OtharLuin (talk) 15:10, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

You are correct. I keep forgetting that there were TWO scandals (Sport betting AND match fixing) that both happened within a year. JRHorse (talk) 11:34, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Daiki Nakamura (s)

I see that Hokutofuji Daiki and Ōnosato Daiki both have the same birth name. Daiki Nakamura (sumo wrestler) currently redirects to Hokutofuji. I could turn that into a dab page, but there's also Daiki Nakamura, the actor. I was wondering how notable he is and whether he is the primary topic, or whether he could be moved to Daiki Nakamura (actor) and the old title be the disambiguation page. Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:52, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Looking at the state of the actor's article, I think we could migrate his page to Daiki Nakamura (actor) and put a distinction tag "not to be confused with Daiki Nakamura (sumo wrestler)" which would be a page where Hokutofuji and Onosato would be? - OtharLuin (talk) 13:22, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Sounds good! I'll make the move. Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:28, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Articles for "Good article" nomination

I'm currently trying to promote some Sumo people articles to Good Article status (such as gyoji, yobidashi, tokoyama or rikishi). For the moment I've only had time to work on the yobidashi, the other articles are still being improved in my sandboxes. I think that Yobidashi is the article that's closest to being promoted to GA, but I'd like some feedback on the form and content before proposing it for this status.

I'll try to deepen the article by continuing to read books and add the quotes in text using Sfn template.

Thanks in advance (ping JRHorse, Pawnkingthree, Xfansd and Tigerboy1966 for advices and GA nomination experience) - OtharLuin (talk) 07:40, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Great idea. I honestly haven’t had a chance to focus on good article status myself. With regards to articles like Gyōji, tokoyama, yobidashi.. have you considered adding a list of all the current ones like the Japanese Wikipedia articles have, or is it not necessary. In the Gyōji article right now, for example, just the top ones are listed. JRHorse (talk) 10:50, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Regarding the Gyoji article, On the subject of the Gyoji article, I've come up with a few ideas for improvement, listed in my dedicated 'Gyoji' sandbox in the notes and sources section (such as adding a glossary of the shouts used by gyoji during matches). I didn't think I'd add a list of referees, mainly because it's already linked to the article in the external links. However, I'm not opposed to the idea listing the san'yaku referees, after all, wrestlers who have reached these ranks have their own list (although the usefulness of this for lower ranks gyoji remains to be seen) - OtharLuin (talk) 11:50, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I worked quite a lot on the gyōji article in my sandbox. I think the article as I've worked it out is already good for GA status, but I'd like it to be proofread for paragraph size, illustrations and even the quality of the sources. - OtharLuin (talk) 09:56, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Following on from this project, I'd like to point out that the yobidashi article is now a good article! - OtharLuin (talk) 15:43, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Congratulations! It's been a long time since we've had a GA - great work :) Pawnkingthree (talk) 16:39, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Elder names in infoboxes

What's the intended usage of the infobox 'eldername' parameter? I guess it was originally supposed to hold just one name entry, but well-meaning editors have in some cases proceeded to add more names to show the name change progression - the problem being that at least the ones I've seen on a cursory look-around all weren't actually complete, so it's worse than showing just the last one. Should these generally be expanded to full listings within the infobox (could be messy with some guys like Zaonishiki)? If only the last one ought to be there, should it even be used for people who aren't part of the Kyokai anymore, or just for active members to show their currently used name? (I'll note here that the parameter links to List of sumo elders, which by its nature only shows current kabu holders...)

FWIW, the Japanese Wikipedia doesn't look very coherent on this issue either. :) Tenkaiho, for instance, who has two names listed here right now, has the full four names over there as part of their 引退後 / "after retirement" infobox field, while the same parameter for Zaonishiki doesn't show his toshiyori name changes at all, only the stables he was affiliated to as oyakata, and for Kaio it just says that he's shisho of Asakayama-beya (which of course implies that he's also Asakayama-oyakata, but doesn't really amount to a kabu history). Zeyes (talk) 12:48, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't think it's documented anywhere but certainly the intention was for it only to be current elders, and only the most recent name. I haven't been very active recently so wasn't aware of this development. I would be in favour of keeping it as was originally intended, for simplicity's sake. Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:08, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Rikishi for "Good article" nomination

Hello everyone, after a long period of work on the subject, I've just finished writing/expanding the article on rikishi. I'm submitting it for proofreading from my sandbox before pasting it on the main article.

I'd also particularly like your opinion on the infobox Chinese at the beginning of the article and on the level of detail in the body of the article (especially in the "History" category).

Thank you for this year of sumo, and have a wonderful holiday season! - OtharLuin (talk) 14:47, 22 December 2023 (UTC)