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"Callsign Meaning"

This is one of the strangest things in the radio station infoboxes. Occasionally, the call letters have meaning. Frequently, they don't and the article writer makes up a meaning, simply to put something in that space. I've seen wrong meanings attributed to station names. Couldn't we get the "callsign meaning" feature out of the infobox to discourage Wikipedians from making this stuff up? That would do wonders for accuracy. And if a call sign has a "meaning" (beyond obvious ones that don't need explanation), it can be included in the article's history section. Thoughts anyone? Goeverywhere 02:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Market templates

I'd like to initiate a bit of a discussion on what this project's policy should be for "radio stations by market" templates such as {{Toronto AM}} or {{Long Island Radio}}. Namely, should a radio station's article include only the template for the market in which it actually originates, or should it include the templates for all primary markets in which the station can be heard? For example, if the radio station CHWO, which originates in the Greater Toronto Area, can be heard in Buffalo, New York, should its article thus include the Buffalo market template as well as the Toronto one? Or should the Buffalo template be excluded because the station doesn't originate in that market?

For clarity's sake, it should be noted that regardless of which articles they're added to, as things currently stand, the templates themselves only include links to stations originating in the listed market. Even if the Buffalo market template is placed on CHWO's article, CHWO isn't listed within the template, so other stations in the Buffalo market don't link back to CHWO.

I'm personally inclined to the "primary market only" position, but there's been enough of a tug-of-war over this that I think we should have a real discussion about it, and shoot for a real consensus as to which approach we want to take. Bearcat 00:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Idea/Proposal

  • Hi... I have a proposal... I believe the primary market should be the only place the radio station is represented as an "In Market" station. If the market can pick up stations from another market, it's probably a good idea to list those in the template, but under a separate header so that the person reading it is aware that the station can be heard in the market, but serves another market. (See Template:Long Island Radio and Template:Middlesex Radio as examples of this).
    • Also, as far as putting the template on the radio station page, I believe it's best to list only one template per radio station because the page gets rather cluttered if you've got 2 or more on there. The exceptions are:
      • (A) If the station is both AM and FM and the market template is split into AM and FM
      • (B) If the station broadcasts on multiple frequencies, one for market A and the other for market B... then there probably should be more than 1

All others, should only have one template on the radio station page. (Any other exceptions others may come up with?) What do you think?

--Jjc104 02:57, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

  • What about translators? Should they be included in the market list and if so, on the main station page do we include all the markets they are in (translators included)? If the network of stations covers a wide area (such as K-LOVE) each individual translator or group of translators in a market could have their own page. Mr mark taylor 15:34, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
I think translators only further muddy the already murky waters that are the market area templates. The bottoms of the article pages on stations that reach more than one market already have a horribly messy mass of templates. Adding these translators will only make everything worse. JPG-GR 19:05, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

WHAT (AM)

I ran across an interesting news article on a radio station that is apparently changing formats. When I looked up the station's call letters, it looks like the Wikipedia doesn't have an article for WHAT (AM). For more info, see Longtime black station shut in Philly By JOANN LOVIGLIO, Associated Press Writer. BlankVerse 04:05, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Satellite Radio

Should the stations that are on Worldspace, XM, & Sirius be added to this project?TravKoolBreeze 20:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The individual stations should be handled by this project. As for the inclusion in the templates, satellite ration stations are neither local nor are they AM/FM. --PhantomS 21:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I see no problem including the Traffic & Weather channels as those are local. They may not be AM/FM but they give valuable information, which should outweigh that. As long as there are labeled as SatRad, those channels should be included.TravKoolBreeze 04:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Adding them would be putting them in the wrong place. What FM stations are is clear. Satellite radio is not FM. Vegaswikian 06:35, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
That is why the tag is mentioning it as satellite radio. Since the templates are for radio stations based by format, it wouldn't make much sense to say "NYC (AM) (FM) (Satellite Radio T/W)". I figure giving the valuable information with the right tag would outweigh the strict definition. TravKoolBreeze 13:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
If the information is valuable, then it should have a place. That place is not in the FM template. Your point seems to be, 'I have valuable information so let me find a place for it'. Based on the fact the these channels are not local or FM, I'll update the template in question again. Vegaswikian 18:27, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Well the traffic and weather channels, which are the only ones being talked about, are local to the market area. Yes, my point is pretty much the information is valuable thus find a place. I do not see it wrong to put it within the template if it was mentioned as satellite radio since in general, the template is radio. It is one line of code that wouldn't destroy the integrity of the template or Wikipedia in general. TravKoolBreeze 20:34, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I believe the templates themselves should represent the Arbitron markets that the label says they are. This means that the satellite traffic and weather stations qualify in the same way that cable stations show up in TV templates. This is because the Sirius and XM Radio specifically targeted those radio markets with the weather/traffic stations even though they are not AM or FM. What do you think? --Jjc104 03:00, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
With TV, the broadcast is intended to be available on a 'standard' TV channel. Cable signals clearly deliver on a TV. With XM radio, it is clearly not intended to be delivered on FM. So including this as an FM station appears to be incorrect. The Arbitron market might be a factor if you included all broadcast types ranked by Arbitron for a market in a template. Vegaswikian 07:58, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Cable signals clearly deliver on TV only when the person has a cable subscription. The template include links to AM, which would make it allowable on the template, since it is clearly defined as AM which is not able to be heard on FM. I am willing to poll the members to reach a consensus about this. If it is ruled that it doesn't belong, I would have no problem with it.TravKoolBreeze 21:07, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually it has links to AM templates. If you want to create a satellite template that could work. Then you are linking to another broadcast medium's template which is logical and proper. Could be the right solution. Vegaswikian 22:23, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
IMO, it would be preferable to have a separate template for satellite radio, since it requires an entirely different set of equipment than AM/FM. In addition, at least with my portable XM Radio, it does not pick up AM/FM. --PhantomS 00:23, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

New question, should a new radio station stub be created for satellite radio pages?TravKoolBreeze 08:18, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Titles with call signs

The examples given in the call signs section seem to contrast with the note added by Stickyguy. Could someone please clarify? --PhantomS 02:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind, I used WP:NAME#Broadcasting and rewrote the section to make more sense, along with restructuring the rest of the project page. --PhantomS 20:30, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Station references with no pages

Reading the history of KLAC AM 570 in Los Angeles and related history of XETRA AM 690 in Mexico, there are references to the format that until recently, occupied both stations. It was referred to as Fabulous 570 when on KLAC and Fabulous 690 when on XETRA. This is a station that attracted over a quarter million listeners and has relocated to the Internet while looking for a new FM or HD2 home. Since the station is referenced and italicized in each article, should a page be created for those searching for the station and it's kind of programming? I'm new to this so I don't know the process. Barfburger 20:22, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

From the project page: "If a station radically changes its format: Create a new section within the existing article about the format change. --PhantomS 20:34, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

HD RADIO

As many of you already know, many FM stations are programming multiple formats taking advantage of HD Radio's multi-casting abilities. For example, KROQ-FM simulcasts their modern rock format on HD1 and airs a classic alternative format on their HD2 signal. This is mentioned in the body of the article but I feel it should be noted on the main infobox templates as with all radio stations that multi-cast in HD.

Perhaps we could add below the format = line something like HD-2 format, HD-3 format, and HD-4 format - or perhaps we could simply list the HD-2 format and reference the body of the article for the third and fourth for the small number of stations that choose to multicast more than two programs.

I was hoping for a discussion on this to see what people's thoughts are on this subject. I know we can't clutter the infobox with too much information as it's meant for only the most important relevant items but I personally feel that this is important - especially in the future when HD Radio's begin to proliferate the market. - Transent 00:22, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Ya, it needs to be covered. I guess any place that lists the format needs to be updated to list the HD formats as well. Vegaswikian 02:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
  • HD radio is going to break a lot of concepts about this topic... while the HD Radio industry group is pushing a year long rollout with FM stations adding an HD2 station (with no commercials and coordination to avoid format overlap), the HD technology supports more than just 2 stations per existing bandwidth allocation. When/if HD gets enough critical mass, if the analog signals are turned off, each licensee (aka CallSign/Frequency) might have 4 HD channels for each FCC license. Essentially a 1-to-1 relationship (FCC License->Signal) is now a one-to-many relationship...StreamingRadioGuide 21:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
    • I agree that this will be an evolving topic, and as of now, none of the HD stations are notable in their own right. So maybe a notation of some sort in the main article is fine. Long-term, I'd say that HD stations be treated as separate stations -- at least when programming on the HD2 channel is unrelated to the programming on primary. Goeverywhere 23:00, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Is there a list of HD Radio stations or a category on wikipedia? Rtphokie 15:39, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

New Category: Help!

Greetings all: My primary interest is in learning foreign langauges, and having access to web-casting radio stations in other languages is invaluable. I want to create a new family of categories: Webcasting radio stations by language. Basically, I would like to compile lists of all stations broadcasting on the web in Dutch, in German, in English, whatever. Questions are:

  1. Is there already a similar page? I have seen lists of radio stations by country. This, however, does not fulfil my purpose, as a) most do not host their content online, and b) I want to distinguish by language, not by country (Spanish-speaking stations in the US would, for example, be filed under Spanish)
  2. Is the term "radio station" still appropriate, even though quite a number of web-casts are not simulatenously broatcast over radio waves?
  3. I want to limit the category to hosts which broadcast (close to) 24/7, as adding PodCasts, and other media which only appear for an hour or two a week would become cumbersome. Is this a fundamentally logical distinction?
  4. Can anyone think of a more appropriate category name before I start?
  5. Would anyone be willing to help me categorise?

Thanks much, samwaltz 15:44, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

All AM and FM radio stations are supposed to have the Template:Infobox Radio station. You will notice that it includes a webcast line where you can add a link. There is an existing category for List of Internet stations but it really needs some work. My proposal is a modification of the list of the FM and AM adapted to Internet Radio. I am working on something and once I have the basic categories and templates laid out, I will let you know and would appreciate your feedback - positive or negative. Transent 08:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I will! I've got a few questions I'll add on the template discussion. Oh, btw, do you know that Internet Radio is an empty self-redirect? What should it be pointing to? samwaltz 14:25, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I just fixed that — it should have been pointing to Internet radio with the second word not capitalized. For what it's worth, according to the edit history that is what it pointed to until a grand total of three hours before you posted this comment (and four hours after Transent posted the comment you were replying to); at that time, somebody changed it to redirect back to itself for no immediately apparent reason. So thanks for catching that! Bearcat 20:13, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

The Internet Radio page is quite a mess. I came up with something that you just "might" like. Go to: List of webcasters in Europe and you will notice that the main template is webcasters by continent. What I think you will like is that I added a category where you can list webcasters by language (See: List of webcasters in Europe by language. I would appreciate any feedback. Transent 19:35, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

My own input: it is a good idea, but Transent is also right that as things currently stand, the Internet radio articles are pretty messy and need a lot of cleanup and improvement. So it's worth doing, but might be better implemented as part of a more comprehensive cleanup project than on its own. For what it's worth, "radio station" isn't ideal terminology, but since people do use it we can as well, as long as we don't use it as the primary term for webcasts. And now, I'm going to wander off and start adding content to List of webcasters in Canada. Bearcat 20:30, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


What takes precedence - FCC license or frequency?

KFXR and its earlier call signs are (and have been on 1190 khz, never 1170). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.184.45.63 (talk) 05:21, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi there. There seems to be a difference of opinion in the article KLIF (AM), and by extension, KFXR (AM). I have found references which state that the following happened in 1990:

KLIF, originally 1170 AM, bought the 570 frequency from KLDD, which (as best I can tell) went out of business. KLIF, with its license, continued to broadcast on 570 up to today.

KXFR, a new station, signed on about a week later, and has kept the 1170 frequency to this day.

The question is this: which approach is right?

1. Making call letters the 'central focus' of an article, which would mean that KLIF (AM)'s history section should have a 1947 founding date at 1170, and mention a move to 570 in 1990

2. Making frequency the 'central focus' of an article, which would mean that KLIF (AM)'s history focuses on the 570 frequency in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, and mentions the former KLDD, then KLIF, as though one continuous station

It is my belief that number (1) is the correct approach. This means that an article follows the FCC license of a station, whether or not it changes frequencies. It seems really odd to me that KLIF (one of the most famous top 40 stations of all time) should have most of its history content in the article KFXR, when KFXR was just 'some station that happened to occupy frequency 1170 after 1990'.

Any thoughts on this? I am currently in edits back and forth with anonymous posters who are putting content into KFXR and KLIF essentially on idea (2) (see Talk:KLIF (AM)), where their preference is stated as 'A history of what AM 570 has been in Dallas/Ft. Worth'. A consensus here would help keep the articles consistent. Skybunny 06:45, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

From the "article formatting" section of the project page, it looks like the call sign takes precedence. --PhantomS 10:55, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
This is an area that often causes confusion. WP:NC and other places suggest that pages should give the entire history of the license, not the call sign, and not the frequency. With some transactions, it becomes difficult to verify what actually happened, particularly since reports in the popular media, and even in some trade publications like Broadcasting & Cable, often describe them inaccurately. The FCC's public records include the complete details, but digging through them to find details like this -- particularly for something that happened long before these records were published on the Internet -- probably counts as original research. (I think you mean 1190, not 1170, by the way.) If I were at home, I have some reference books that would answer definitively what happened in this particular case, but I don't have access to them right now. In any event, I think your description of what happened is wrong, for a very simple reason: changing the ownership of a license is easy and takes the FCC a few months at most to process; changing call signs can be done on a whim with the payment of a $65 fee; changing frequency is extremely expensive, takes a great deal of time, and is open to competitive applications. It is highly unlikely that KLIF "changed frequency to 570" as you describe; what is much more likely is that the owners of KLIF-1190 bought KLDD-570 and moved their programming and callsign to 570 (which, you will recall, is the old WFAA) then sold the 1190 license to someone else. The FCC's records for (the current) KFXR and KLIF both indicate histories for those licenses going back to the beginning of electronic recordkeeping at the Commission around 1980. Based on the dates shown in CDBS (570 changes hands in early 1990, but the sale of 1190 isn't granted until early 1991) it seems likely that the owners of 1190 operated 570 under a Local Marketing Agreement prior to consummation of the deal. (Department of useless trivia: KFXR is the ninth call sign 1190 has had since 1990.)
These details sometimes even confuse the licensees themselves, which is part of why the FCC now assigns a Facility ID Number (FIN) to every license. It is my considered belief that station histories should folllow the facility, as the FCC defines it, unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise. 121a0012 06:36, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
I think this is something that needs to be decided on a case-by-case basis, and not by trying to appeal to a one-size-fits-all rule about whether to follow the call-sign, frequency, or FCC license or facility ID. In this case I think there is a compelling reason to not use the FCC facility ID to determine where the history of KLIF 1190 should go. That the call sign at 570 kHz is currently KLIF is indeed a compelling reason for the pre-1990 history of KLIF to be there, but this reason alone might not be sufficient (or even necessary), as I think it would be equally compelling to say that the FCC license to broadcast on 1190 kHz in Dallas now belongs to KFXR, and so the pre-1990 history of 1190 kHz belongs there. However, the most compelling reason, and what I think tips the balances, is that there is a clear link between the historical KLIF on 1190 and the current KLIF on 570. Whatever the details of the 1990 transaction, it is clear that it was the intent of the Susquehanna Radio Corporation to purchase the license to broadcast at 570 kHz in Dallas, in order to move their radio station KLIF to that frequency, and that for a week in late 1990, the same programming was broadcast on both frequencies in order to facilitate the public acceptance of that move. Therefore, detailed information about the history of KLIF before 1990 rightly belongs on the KLIF article. This is also where I think someone who wanted to research the history of KLIF before 1990 would expect to find it.
Nevertheless, it is also clear that the histories of the two stations KLIF and KFXR are related, and it is reasonable to expect that each article should contain a mention and link to the other article in its respective history section. For example, the KFXR article should say that the frequency (or FCC license to broadcast on that frequency) once belonged to KLIF, and the KLIF article should say that the 1190 frequency (or license) was sold and is now the home of KFXR.
What's missing from this discussion is where the pre-1990 history of 570 kHz should go. I think it could also be in the KLIF article, although I am inclined to think that, as 570 kHz was WFAA for over 60 years (see this Dallas-Fort Worth AM Station History), a new article WFAA (AM) should be created to cover 570 kHz in Dallas for the period from 1922-1990. DHowell 00:16, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, as is clear, I disagree, but I won't insist on the principle, particularly for a market far from my home. 121a0012 06:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
Dallas is far from my home, too, but closer to my home is a couple of stations I edited a while back, KFRC and KEAR in San Francisco, which I think represent the ideal of what I am arguing for. If we were to insist on using the FCC license ID or frequency to determine where historical information should be presented, KFRC's eight-decade history as an AM station would be under KEAR, and KEAR's 55-year history would be splattered among 4 different pages, KEAR, KIFR, KLLC, and KYCY. That just doesn't make sense to me.
Another example: KMET in Los Angeles has been off the air for over twenty years, and yet it is still more notable by far than the Inland Empire station currently using those call letters. An FCC ID or frequency rule would insist that this information be placed under KTWV, but really, KMET is well-known (at least around here among people old enough to know) for being the legendary rock-and-roller "the Mighty MET", and not just "some station that used to broadcast on 94.7 where KTWV is now." Now you might argue that this violates the rules I suggested above, because an ownership link can be established between KMET and KTWV, whereas there is no such link between the former KMET and the current KMET. But that's why I said first that these things need to be decided on a case-by-case basis. In this case, I think the notability and fame of the former KMET overrides any other consideration. DHowell 02:43, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Userboxes for this project?

I'd love to add a userbox for this project to my talkpage. has anyone made one?Lisapollison 21:14, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Nevermind, I found one:
This user is a participant in WikiProject Radio.

- Lisapollison 21:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC)


And, for those who aren't members of the greater parent project:
This user is a participant in
WikiProject Radio Stations.

-- JPG-GR 17:33, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Which is preferred?

I've come across both Template:Fminfo and Template:FMQ. Is either the preferred information template? JPG-GR 03:55, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Likewise -- Template:Aminfo vs. Template:AMQ? JPG-GR 20:16, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, I feel kinda "duh!" Thanks for the info, though. JPG-GR 21:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
I think we should actually switch overt to Template:Fminfo as it gives more info than Template:FMQ. Same for AMTravKoolBreeze 16:12, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree to some extent. Radio-locator is useful, but what the hell is Yes.com anyway? JPG-GR 17:56, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes.com seems to be a log of what the station has played. Doesn't help for news/talk FM stations so I edited out. We can always edit the template again. I say we swtich over to the info templates for radio pages, since it has elements of Template:FMQ, Template:FML and Template:fmsignal. Same for AM.TravKoolBreeze 20:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Since Template:FMQ is in just about every article and appears to be the 'standard', it would be a lot smarter to change that template to include any additional links the project determines are needed. There is no reason to update every article to a new template and there is no reason for 3 or more templates. Vegaswikian 21:15, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Makes sense. What links should be kept for Template:FMQ and Template:AMQ from the other templates?TravKoolBreeze 04:34, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Whereas I'm a fan of Radio-Locator and I've been utilizing it in the Michigan-related radio articles (but not to a point where adding it to the template would hurt), I'd almost say I'm happy with how Template:FMQ and Template:AMQ are now. *shrug* JPG-GR 04:44, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
<edit conflict> I would only consider keeping 1. Information page for {{{1}}}-FM from RecNet.com and 2. Radio Locator Information on {{{1}}}. The third item includes a popup window so I would exclude that and the last one is already in fmq. If you make those changes, the final step would be to switch the articles using fminfo to use the new fmq and redirect fminfo to fmq. Vegaswikian 04:47, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
On further analysis, the addition of "Radio Locator Information on {{{1}}}" would be a good addition to the template (IMO). Still not familiar enough with RecNet.com for an opinion. JPG-GR 05:22, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Substitution of {{RadioStationsProject}} or not?

Should the project template be subst: or not? I had a discussion with before at User_talk:Bearcat#Talk:France_Inter, User_talk:SlaveToTheWage#France_Inter and needed a more broader opinion on it. Thanks, STTW (talk) 19:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

If the template was static and would never change again I would say yes but since the template is intended to maintain consistency across all pages and could very well change in the future I would say leave it the way it is (edited to say, now that I look at it, I agree that RadioStationsProject could very well never change. subst is a better alternative. sorry about the previous response) Cmhdave73 22:14, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
As far as I am aware, it has been determined that server load is not something we should be concerned about when using templates. As such, I see no advantage to subst'ing the templates, and plenty of advantages to transcluding them. DHowell 00:42, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Proposal: UK Radio stations task force

Looking at the number of people who are participants in this project from the UK and specificially dealing with UK articles, as well as the different style of writing and prose required for UK radio stations, I am proposing to start a UK radio stations task force, which still as part of the main radio stations WikiProject, would be able to more effectively work on UK radio stations articles where the radio station broadcasting model is different from the US model, but still be able to share and collabriate with the main radio stations WikiProject, which would be more difficult to do if this was a separate child WikiProject.

For example, most of the guidance on the main project page is geared towards the US radio station broadcasting model and wouldn't necesarily be applicable to the UK radio station broadcasting model.

I can set-up a task force or another proposed idea (if anyone suggests anything else) if anyone is interested. --tgheretford (talk) 15:47, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I would join that if it was created. --Eddie (talk/contribs) 09:17, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I support this idea, it is an area that isn't covered and one I think needs a dedicated group of some form. If you're looking for alternatives, then you could propose changing WP:BTVC to a British Broadcasting project, covering both Radio and Television. Not necessarily a better idea than a task force, but worth discussing perhaps, assuming people at WP:BTVC liked the idea. -- Fursday 22:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
I support the idea. There is definately a difference in UK and international broadcasting styles. /Marbles 10:12, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I have made the suggestion and place for discussion with the WP:BTVC of a proposal to include UK radio stations within the UK TV stations WikiProject or keep them separate here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject British TV channels#Proposal: WikiProject British TV Channels → WikiProject British Broadcasting OR WikiProject British TV and Radio channels? I'll let this discussion start for a bit before deciding whether to pursue a option of covering both TV and radio in one WikiProject or keep them separate. --tgheretford (talk) 19:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
No response at WP:BTVC. Either things have gone quiet or the WikiProject has become inactive. --tgheretford (talk) 16:27, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

New proposal: UK radio and radio stations task force

I had another thought on all of this, and I wonder whether it may be a better idea to expand the proposed taskforce a little and make it also cover the radio industry of the UK, rather than just focus on radio stations (which it could still do), and become a part of WikiProject Radio. I'll post the same idea on the WikiProject Radio talk page to link to this discussion. Good or bad idea? --tgheretford (talk) 16:27, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

So, this task force would cover most aspects of UK radio. Not just stations, but programmes and other occupations in radio as well? ISD 10:14, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
The goals and scope of the task force will be exactly the same as WikiProject Radio, but will focus on UK articles, which the main project doesn't really focus on. --tgheretford (talk) 10:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Well in that case, I'd welcome it and would like to be part of it. ISD 13:16, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The UK radio task force (also covering radio stations in the UK) is now live at Wikipedia:WikiProject Radio/UK Radio --tgheretford (talk) 13:27, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

"US radio stations by state" lists

As things currently stand, the generally-applied practice has been for each state in the United States to have six separate radio station lists: one organized by call sign, one by city, one by format, one by Arbitron market, one by frequency and one by network. A user has recently proposed redirecting List of radio stations in Michigan by market area to another list, but I'd like to raise a discussion about this.

Wikipedia now has the capability to create sortable tables, in which a single table can be rearranged to sort items by any column within the table. Thus, it would now be possible to have, instead of six separate lists, a single radio stations list from which the user can choose which sort order they want to view: by call sign, by city, by frequency, etc. Accordingly, I'd like to propose a change to Wikipedia practice for US radio station lists, under which all six separate lists for each US state would be merged into a single list, which would be arranged as a sortable table. Here's a few radio stations arranged as an example; note how you can click on the little arrow boxes next to each column header to make any column act as the sortation key, meaning that this one table can simultaneously serve as six different lists:

Call sign Frequency Branding Format City of license Arbitron market
WAAM 1600 AM "TalkRadio 1600" talk radio Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti Detroit
WABJ 1490 AM "NewsTalk 1490" news Adrian Detroit
WAGN 1340 AM "The Bay Area's News Source" news Menominee/Marinette Central Upper Peninsula

Any discussion? Bearcat 23:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Basically no objection to using a sortable table. The only issue I have, are any additional fields needed? I'm thinking about transmitter power, owner and a notes heading for other items of significance. I'd drop branding and Arbitron market. Better to discuss this up front rather than update all of the tables later. Vegaswikian 00:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Good ideas all. I'm not wedded to the branding column; I just included it because that information was present on the list I copied these stations from. The Arbitron market question was raised in the discussion in which I originally proposed this; some people do find that information useful and important, but it is worth discussing whether we really need it or not. Perhaps we could just put the market number (e.g. "10" for Detroit) instead of the name? As for your other columns, transmitter power and owner are good ideas; I think "other items of significance" would probably be better discussed on the stations' actual articles, but I'm open to discussion on this too. Bearcat 00:52, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Obviously, the "callsign", "frequency", and "city of license" columns are necessary. However, the other ones (esp. "branding) may be more clutter than use. Branding's change often. Formats often overlap, leaving the sorting option practically useless. Whereas power, owner, etc. are all very interesting data, I'd say those are best left for individual stations' infoboxes. JPG-GR 01:06, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
This is wonderful that MediaWiki finally has this ability. I always disliked the idea that six separate lists would have to be maintained everytime a radio station changes, and apparently I'm not the only one; look at List of radio stations in California (sorted by band, then call letters) and List of radio stations in California by call letters (which is actually sorted by city of license!), and the lack of other California radio station lists. Since the current radio station list templates have the six sorting criteria, it seems reasonable for these columns to be in the sortable lists: callsign, frequency, city of license, market, format, network. Branding is also useful because often the station brand is far more well-known than the call letters.
If possible, I think what might be nice would be to have a separate list for each Arbitron market within a state, and then a comprehensive state list which transcludes the individual market lists. If this can be done with the sortability of the state list retained, I think this would be the most comprehensive and useful method for presenting this information, and would only require each station to be present in *one* list (save for the possible exception of certain stations which serve multiple markets across state lines). I'll probably experiment with this on the California stations and see if I can come up with something reasonable. DHowell 01:34, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Take a look at User:DHowell/List of radio stations in California. It's a work in progress, but notice that the Los Angeles and San Francisco stations are transcluded from their own separate pages. Let me know what you think. DHowell 06:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
I would like to see branding after owner/network if we go this way. Also the sorting shows how inconsistent we are in the city names and links vs. no links all over. Vegaswikian 06:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree that there is inconsistency within the tables, and that can certainly be fixed, but I just wanted to get an idea of what the table would look like and if the transclusion idea I had would work (which it does appear to). I think we need to get a broad consensus of what the table format should be, since this would be difficult to change, especially if we use transcluded tables (since there would be 300+ market lists and 50 state lists, plus possibly some "mutli-market" lists where markets cross state lines or where there is significant overlap in the Arbitron markets). I like the branding where I and others put it, as the callsign, frequency, and branding all are part of the identity of the station, where other columns are information about the station. But I would probably also get rid of, or move to the Format/Comments column, some of the longer "brands" which are actually slogans, like "Los Angeles' Only Classic Rock Station".
So far we have:
Call Sign Frequency Branding City of License Owner/Network Format/Comments
Call sign Frequency Branding Format City of license Arbitron market
Call Sign Frequency Branding City of License Primary Arbitron Market
Call Sign Frequency City of License Owner/Network Branding Format/Comments
  • another suggestion by me:
Call Sign Frequency Branding City of License Mkt. Owner/Network Format/Comments
KRTH FM 101.1 "K-Earth 101" Los Angeles LAX CBS Radio Oldies
WMGC-FM FM 105.1 "Magic 105" Detroit DET Greater Media Adult contemporary
where "Mkt." would be short abbreviations of the market, like "L.A." or "LAX" for Los Angeles and "Det." or "DET" for Detroit.
However, I think the market field would be redundant if we use transcluded tables for each market, as sorting by market could be done by clicking on an appropriate market sub-table link (and then stations within a market could be sorted by other criteria).
How to link the cities and owners is another problem, as the usual rule of only linking the first reference breaks down somewhat when using a sortable table. Which leaves the following options: Link all cities and owners in the table; link no cities or owners in the table; link the first reference to a city or owner in the table, and don't worry that it won't be the first reference in a sorted table; or pick a standard criteria to decide which one reference to each city and owner to link.
Any other thoughts? DHowell 20:58, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

UK Digital Radio

Following on from talk at talk:4 Digital Group (where a discussion is taking place over a UK-related digital radio licensing process), some people have raised the idea of creating a dedicated article for DAB or Digital radio in the United Kingdom.

The article would carry on from the Digital Audio Broadcasting article and go into specific detail of how digital radio technologies are specifically employed in the UK, the patterns of ownership and coverage, the licensing process, and the specific criticisms DAB in the UK. My hope is that with "Digital" rather than "DAB" in the title, the article could also cover other Digital Radio technologies currently at the trial stage, such as Digital Radio Mondiale. The Article would be analogous to Digital terrestrial television in the United Kingdom. I believe that there would be sufficient material, and references to make such an article justified, though I am interested to see what others things.

Any thoughts? -- Fursday 17:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

As per the comments I made at the Talk:4 Digital Group page, I think there needs to be a lot done to cover the history and current state of UK radio, in one or a number of articles, in the same way that UK digital terrestrial television has been covered, so I agree with Fursday's suggestion. --tgheretford (talk) 21:43, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Help needed - you can help!

I started a skeleton template of the proposed articles as stated above on this page: User:Tghe-retford/Sandbox 2. It is basic, but it gives a good idea as to how the articles could be spread out. Feel free to edit it or improve it or even turn them into fully fledged articles in article namespace in their own right! --tgheretford (talk) 16:29, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Category Listing

When putting a large number of stations into a category (such as Category:Clear Channel radio stations), are we to let the category be sorted by default (i.e. all Wxxx stations under W), or should we sort so that they are sorted under the second letter of the callsign? JPG-GR 17:47, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

IIRC, the conclusion that we came to the last time this was discussed was as follows:
  1. For a category where all the radio stations begin with the same letter, sort on the second letter, since the category page will look cleaner and better-organized this way.
  2. For categories which mix Wxxx and Kxxx and Cxxx call signs, sort on the first letter, since that's actually the one letter in the call sign that tells you something specific and important about the station, so in this situation sorting on the second letter actually obscures the most important piece of information the title offers.
Hope this helps a bit. Bearcat 14:59, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Much thanks. That's basically what I have been doing -- sorting stations that appear in a region by the second and letting the rest sort themselves. Thanks! JPG-GR 18:11, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

RfC: Market Templates

Having a bit of a debate here as to whether or not WQBR (AM) should be included in Template:Ann Arbor Radio.

User:RMc argues it should be included because it is a radio station located in Ypsilanti, Michigan (a neighboring town located in the market), has existed for 40 years, and that it is owned by local Eastern Michigan University.

I argue that it should not be included because it is carrier current/not licensed by the FCC, only operates on 4 watts of power, and is not even the main station of the university. Additionally, it is not even mentioned on http://www.michiguide.com/, a site which provides information on all Michigan TV and Radio stations ([1])

Anybody have any opinions to settle this debate? JPG-GR 00:30, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

WQBR was listed on Michiguide.com for several years (I sent the webmaster the info myself), but it's no longer there for some reason. WQBR was/is well-known on EMU's campus and probably more listened-to by students than WEMU is. A borderline case...but I think WQBR belongs. RMc 11:09, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Is this station even notable enough to have an article? No FCC license, no sources cited, can't be heard off-campus ("no longer receivable more than 10 feet from the Quirk building"), and no reason asserted why this is any more worthy of an article than, e.g., the university chess club. If it's notable within the university, perhaps it should be merged into the Eastern Michigan University article. Certainly doesn't belong in a market template. DHowell 22:40, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
See also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/88.9 Lancer Radio - Pasadena Campus Sounds for a deletion discussion about another student-run radio station. DHowell 22:52, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
The implication that WQBR is more popular than WEMU gave me a good laugh. More proof for my side: WQBR does have a section on the EMU webiste, but it hasn't been touched since 2004. [2] JPG-GR 23:56, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
No need to get personal, pal. ;) It's not that WQBR has huge ratings, it's that WEMU is equally unknown to the actual students -- like most NPR outlets, WEMU is much more of older upscale yuppie/jazz fan thing than a student-oriented radio station. (At least WQBR is more popular among the kids who hang around the Quirk Building (heh).) RMc 11:28, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
Is your argument that WQBR belongs because it is just as -unknown- as WEMU? JPG-GR 05:40, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Whether the students of EMU know of WEMU or WQBR is irrelevant, as this is not EMUpedia; WEMU has a potential audience of 400,000 across 8 counties[3], and people in Ann Arbor (and several other cities) can actually tune their radio and hear the station. WQBR is "no longer receivable more than 10 feet from the Quirk building", and is not in any meaningful way part of the Ann Arbor radio market. DHowell 06:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
OK, I'll concede the point. WQBR belongs in Wiki, but not in the template. Too bad. RMc 11:56, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

WEMU is way more widely known than WQBR, as WQBR is carrier current only, however WQBR is undergoing a huge change this upcoming fall and will hopefully pull in a real listener base. Merging it into EMU would be fine as it is geared towards the students, but maybe it does deserve its own page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.76.121.119 (talk)

Saugeen First Nation

Is it appropriate for an article on a community that has none of its own media outlets to contain a list of every DX station that has ever been picked up by dial scanners in the area? Bearcat 15:22, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Notability

I was under the impression that if a station is licensed by the FCC, it's notable enough for inclusion in WP. Apparently, I may be wrong, in the case of WMLZ-LP. Anybody know of a set notability guideline or precedent in this case? JPG-GR 18:00, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

All I can find so far was this:
From Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes --tgheretford (talk) 19:00, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm. That definitely should not apply, since LPFMs in the U.S. are Part 73 stations and not Part 15 stations. (There are Part 15 [i.e., unlicensed micropower] FM stations, but LPFMs do not belong to this category. LPFMs may have up to 100 watts of ERP and thus may cover a significantly larger area than a "full-power" class-D NCE FM primary [limited to 10 watts TPO].) 121a0012 03:28, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

List of radio stations

I don't know if anyone here noticed, but List of radio stations has been deleted, and the AfD is here. I've called for a deletion review as I believe this meta-list should be restored and renamed to Lists of radio stations. Please participate in this deletion review discussion. DHowell 20:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I think there is a greater danger that all the sub lists could also be targeted for AfD. A worry for list of radio stations in the United Kingdom, which covers UK radio stations in a far greater depth that a category can never do. --tgheretford (talk) 20:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

kube

kube is not Clear Channel Communications the fcc site has Licensee: ACKERLEY BROADCASTING OPERATIONS, LLC do we keep is as Clear Channel Communications or back to ACKERLEY BROADCASTING OPERATIONS, LLCgeoff271989 23:38 PSD 21 MAY 2007 06:38 22 May 2007 (UTC)

While the FCC database is usually the best reference IMO, KUBE's own website lists it as being part of Clear Channel. In this case, I gotta give it to the station's website. JPG-GR 06:41, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Clear Channel bought the entire Ackerley group several years ago. The licensee is not the same thing as the owner. (If you want to know who the actual owners of a station are, it is necessary to read the station's FCC ownership filings, which can be found on the CDBS site.) Ackerley Broadcasting Operations, LLC, is one of many (probably hundreds) of subsidiary corporations which Clear Channel uses to manage its holdings. Many companies do the same. You will find many Clear Channel holdings licensed to Capstar TX Limited Partnership, and many others licensed to Citicasters, Inc. There are financial, legal, and tax reasons for a company the size of Clear Channel to structure its operations in this way.
If you look at other broadcasting companies, they will often maintain what seems like an odd corporate structure, with one corporation or LLC to hold the license, which is 1% owned by another corporation and 99% owned by a limited partnership in which the other parent is a partner but yet a third subsidiary is the managing general partner. For tax reasons, large broadcasters often arrange to trade stations (or other assets, for that matter) rather than selling them outright; this sometimes leads to unexpected licensee names, leaving Wxxx licensed to Wyyy, Inc. My favorite example is what is now WCRB in Lowell, Mass. That station was, in a previous incarnation, owned by Clear Channel. CCU traded it and some other assets to Greater Media in exchange for Greater's WGAY-FM in Washington, D.C. For a few years after this transaction, the then WKLB-FM was licensed to Greater Washington Radio, Inc., while all the other GM stations in Boston were licensed to Greater Boston Radio, Inc. As a result of a more recent transaction, the current WKLB-FM is licensed to Charles River Broadcasting WCRB License Corp. 121a0012 04:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Official names fixed

I've spent the majority of the last week going through all the Wxxx radio stations (tagged with {{RadioStationsProject}}) and corrected any that incorrectly included "-FM", " (FM)", "-AM", " (AM)" or any other oddities. Granted, this doesn't mean all the Wxxx radio stations are fixed, as I didn't check all the stations that don't have suffixes in their article titles, that may need them.

The downside to all of this -- whereas all the market templates will still link to the proper articles via redirects, the links in those templates will need to be repaired if the links are to show up bold (i.e. self-linked) in the stations' own articles.So, if anybody's looking for a fun project, there's a good one for you.

FYI -- I'll probably be doing the Kxxx radio stations in the upcoming weeks. JPG-GR 19:54, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Kxxx radio stations fixed. JPG-GR 18:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Arbitron markets updated to Spring 2007 rankings

I went ahead and updated all of the rankings of the list of radio markets to the Spring of 2007 Arbitron ranks. In particular, the ranks for markets in the 250s-280s have moved around. In particular, Meadville and Great Falls are no longer ranked giving way to Hot Springs and Twin Falls. Let me know if there are any errors.

--Jjc104 02:29, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

List of NPR stations

I've recently put together Wikipedia:Sandbox/rad which I plan on finishing up and moving to List of NPR stations. Is this a good thing? Is there anything I need to check on? I'm not a regular member of this project, but since I found no list when I went looking for one, I thought it would be a good addition. Thoughts? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:55, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

The formatting doesn't really match anything we currently have/use, but I think it might come in useful. JPG-GR 05:59, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Can you recommend a format that would be better? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 14:05, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Off the top of my head, no. In most cases, these are templates, but this would be much too large for that. Usually, the lists are pretty plain. *shrug* JPG-GR 17:06, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I think the list could work, but for other formats or modified under its current form as most NPR stations simulcast together (as all the Maine station are part of MPBN, all New Hampshire stations simulcast together New Hampshire Public Radio and Vermont has 2 networks that simulcast on the listed stations in the table (Vermont Public Radio has a standard NPR network and a classical network)
I'd drop the FM and footnote the few AM stations or just ignore this since the frequency provides this information. It should include a column for the affiliation of the station since this may be important to some. Also these affiliations are not restricted to a single state. Not everyone wants to search by state. So folding in the state into the table and making it sortable and a single table would met more needs, especially if the network affiliation is included. Vegaswikian 19:01, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

A little confused on naming conventions

So should an article be named WIVK, WIVK-FM, or WIVK (FM)? Currently it's WIVK.--AW 19:03, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

An article should be named according to it's offical callsign as found in the FCC database whenever possible. When this is not the case (usually in the event that the callsign is used as an acronym elsewhere), (FM) is added as a suffix to the article name. In the case of the station you mentioned, the official callsign is WIVK-FM, and should therefore be located at WIVK-FM (which is where I'm going to be moving it in one second). JPG-GR 19:32, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Please remember to also update all templates that include the station and also fix double redirects. Vegaswikian 19:51, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
If that's the case JPG-GR, then there are a lot of radio stations that are named improperly. --AW 15:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Hahaha don't even get me started! A large majority of my edits of 2007 have been moving radio station articles to their proper home. It's an extremely massive project that I've developed a strategic method to take care of, but it's gonna be months before I even make a dent. Definitely a challenge, to say the least. JPG-GR 17:16, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


Authorized Power (USA Stations Only)

Whitch should be used in the infoboxes with regards to the power of a station? What the stations website/image says or what the FCC database has? Mr mark taylor 15:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I am unaware of any examples where the station would claim one thing, and the station another. I would think one should use the FCC database's listed value (unless someone has a convincing argument otherwise?). JPG-GR 01:09, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Modulo errors in the FCC's Common Database System (which do happen), the power should be listed as the value the FCC requires it to be. Stations sometimes like to inflate their importance by claiming a higher power than they actually have. (A common version of this for FM stations is to use the class-maximum power, even though the station operates at a much lower power because its antenna is much higher than the standard height used to define the class max. For example, WZRT used to run a stager with the claim "serving four states with fifty thousand watts of power", which was nonsense; it is a class-C2 station, for which the class-maximum ERP is indeed 50 kW, but it has only 1.15 kW from its antenna location 790 m above average terrain.) 121a0012 02:56, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Radio and Radio stations

what is the difference between these two projects? Simply south 14:58, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Schedules on station articles

I've run across quite a few of these things. These are long lists and schedules listing every on-air shift and every on-air personality at the station, even down to the Sunday morning public affairs shows. I've noticed that many of these have been put into the articles by radio station employees themselves. In fact, I'm currently involved in an editing conflict with a radio station employee who obviously think that adding this stuff is of vital importance. Take this one for example:

Programs

Weekdays

  • 12:00 a.m. to 5:00 a.m.: After Midnight with Blair Garner
  • 5:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m.: Mantel and Michelle
  • 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.: Michelle Maloney
  • 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.: Michael J. (Also on WPOC)
  • 2:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.: Chuck Collier (Also on WMJI)
  • 7:00 p.m. to 12:00 a.m.: Kat Jackson

Saturday

  • 12:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m.: After Midnight Weekends with Larry Morgan
  • 6:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m.: Ben and Brian's Big Top 20 Countdown
  • 9:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.: Michelle Maloney
  • 2:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m.: Chuck Collier (Also on WMJI)
  • 7:00 p.m. to 12:00 a.m.: The Big Time Saturday Night with Whitney Allen

Sunday

  • 12:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m.: After Midnight Weekends with Larry Morgan
  • 6:00 a.m. to 6:30 a.m.: Public Affairs with Ted Lux
  • 6:30 a.m. to 8:00 a.m.: Cleveland Country Classics with Chuck Collier (Also on WMJI)
  • 8:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m.: American Country Countdown with Kix Brooks
  • 12:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m.: Kat Jackson
  • 6:00 p.m. to 12:00 a.m.: Scott Glaser/Daune Robinson (Also on WMJI, WMVX & WHOF)/Ryan Lloyd


Quite frankly, I feel this is rather excessive, is promotional, long, poorly laid out, irrelevant, filled with names of people few people really care about and merely duplicates information found on the stations' web sites. These are too directory-like and unimportant information. I think it's time to address this issue and see what others involved in the project think about schedules on radio station articles. Personally, unless we're talking New York or L.A. or some talk station, this is really useless information, particularly for a market like Cleveland. Especially when one can find this on the station's website. And it's certainly not a place to promote one's buddies. --Fightingirish 23:42, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

These station lineups are too tempermental, and can change with no notice. They are a waste of space. That's why we provide external links to stations' websites. JPG-GR 05:15, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Current schedules are currently covered by WP:NOT#DIR, so feel free to either tag the schedule with {{schedule}} or remove the schedule completely. However, schedules of any kind brings out heated and passionate debate and there are some editors who do believe that Wikipedia can also be a TV Guide, or WikiGuide. Do alert anyone about WP:NOT policy on schedules, but if anyone you do alert does believe that schedules should be included in Wikipedia, then direct them to WT:NOT and advise them to start discussion there or/and at WP:VPP --tgheretford (talk) 06:50, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Fightingirish -- For simplicity, please note that I've copy/pasted my response here from the discussion that was started on the article that I had been editing. So excuse the redunancy...
I agree that the topic is certainly deciphered differently by different editors. And as I noted in my previous comments -- on the discussion of WP:NOT, there are some (myself included) that believe there is some historical value to including the information within the articles. But with that said, I certainly see the concerns raised by you and others on this topic... though I do disagree on your take regarding the notability of personalities between Los Angeles and Cleveland. In all fairness, that type of qualitative data is very difficult, if not impossible to fairly conclude.
After opening this to discussion here, I contacted one of the administrators involved in the discussion of WP:NOT, in an effort for further clarification on this topic. The administrator posted his response on my talk page where rather than taking a position or attempting to clarify more, he made the suggestion of coming to a compromise.
With this in mind, I do feel that a compromise is certainly in order. One suggestion could be to include the information in the same (or similar) manner as it is included for BBC "presenters". In a prose-like form, giving historical data of past and present personalities... perhaps even categorized by air shift. For example, for "mornings" the information would include all who have worked in that particular air shift over the years. Djockers 16:09, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
The inherent flaw with that is that random DJs throughout the year fail WP:NOTABLE. JPG-GR 17:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Here's a compromise of sorts that I put up on the WCBS-FM article (which I just finished rewriting and sourcing). I thought I'd put this one up as a test, so see what people thought. Now remember, this is New York City, and radio personalities in these large markets are much, much more notable than the overnight or weekend guy in Cleveland. Here's how I did it:
Current on-air staffers at WCBS-FM include Jeff Mazzei, Dan Taylor, Irv 'Mr. G.' Gikofsky, Al Merideth, Bob Shannon, Broadway Bill Lee, Joe Causi, and Pat St. John.
Now granted, this is not going to work for every kind of station. And I still fear that people will go overboard on this (like adding the Sunday morning public affairs host and the weekend jocks). For medium-sized and smaller markets, perhaps mention could be limited to a notable morning show or if they carry well-known syndicated shows such as Bob and Tom, Loveline or Delilah. As for a lengthy list of everyone who's ever worked there, that's a bit excessive. If a noteworthy person had worked at the station in the past, such as Don Imus, then that should be noted. If someone connected with the station has a Wikipedia entry, they should be mentioned as well.
The BBC example you cited is totally different, since BBC is broadcast nationally across the U.K. A similarity could be seen here in the U.S. in a network like Air America Radio, where a schedule is more justified. Radio in the U.K. is also more personality-driven, rather than the U.S. style of reading time and temp and going back to the music in seven seconds or less. Whether U.K. stations should have all this stuff on their articles is beyond me. I'll let the Brits sort it out for now. But adding a list just for the sake of adding it, or because another station's article has it is pretty pointless. Two wrongs never make a right.
In my opinion, the types of things a radio station article should have include:
  • Correct name, COL and frequency
  • FCC technical stuff in infobox
  • Current format
  • History, including former call signs, sign-on date, previous formats, notable events, former employees of note (I've been adding a lot of this). I noticed that User:Djockers added quite a bit of historical info to the WNCX article, which is fantastic. It could probably be cleaned up a little and formatted differently, though. Otherwise, it looks great.
  • Current and historical logos (though this is being hotly debated by some, I think it's important).
  • HD Radio information (such as programming on subchannels)
  • References and links
Here's what I feel doesn't belong:
  • Long lists, just for the sake of having them
  • Schedules, or stuff that's already on the station's website
  • Listing of employees at the station, including on-air, management, sales department, etc.
  • Phone numbers, e-mail, text messaging numbers for all the jocks (I actually removed this from WXSS), contact info.
  • Personal opinion on station/format/personalities, slander (goes without saying).
  • Advertising-like or promotional prose
  • List of every artist played on the station (I've seen way too many of these)
  • Long list of local morning show bits
  • Mention of every single minor character or person on local morning show (unless we're talking about a well-known show such as Howard Stern or Opie and Anthony, which would merit its own separate article anyway). If the local morning show/host is noteworthy (such as Tom Barnard of KQRS in Minneapolis), it should have its own article, and could probably have the name of the intern who fetches them coffee in the morning and provides funny voices.
  • Station contests or promotions (unless it's noteworthy or controversial, such as the tragic "Wii contest" at KDND
  • List of every single band to play a station festival. Just mention that station XXXX puts on "XXXXfest" every July at whatever location. Mention three most noteworthy bands to have played in the past, and perhaps the top three bands playing this year.
  • Lots of rambling prose and bad sentence structure. Having been editing the WCBS-FM article for the past week or so (since they flipped back to oldies), I've noticed that everybody and their family members have felt justified in adding in the most inane pieces of trivia or opinion to the article. I suggested to would-be editors to take things out of this already overlong article rather than merely adding more. And I did just that. My goal in editing articles is to make them 'short n' sweet'. We don't need a whole book with every little piece of information possible. Create a tribute site and link it from the article. The most interesting stuff, in readable form accessible even to people who don't really care about radio. That's my goal in editing articles. As Joe Friday would say, "Just the facts."
Again, this is just my opinion. Anyone else care to add anything?--Fightingirish 19:15, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Fightingirish... funny thing is, I agree with most of what you said. I also appreciate your comments on the WNCX article, I did spend quite a bit of time editing that article last year. And due to my situation, after editing and expanding it I backed away from it to allow the natural progression of the article to flow without interference. It wasn't until the recent changes that I stepped up to give an opinion. But outside of that, I let it expand and am quite proud at how others have contributed and expanded it more.
Regarding WP:NOTABLE, the problem here is that it is very difficult to quantify this with on-air personalities. To say someone is more notable just because they're on the air in LA -- as opposed to a smaller market like Cleveland -- is also flawed. It can be argued that someone in Cleveland may not know an air-personality (let alone a radio station) in LA -- the same of course can be said for someone from LA not knowing the same for a market like Cleveland. Now, if you're referring to just any random "DJ", then that could be... but my suggestion does not revolve around "random DJ's" or "weekenders", "part timers" or even "bit players and janitors". My suggestion solely was for "notable" air-personalities that impacted a specific radio stations history. IMHO, someone who has been working the same midday shift of a radio station in a market like Cleveland for 20 years -- is in fact, "notable". As their presence has impacted that radio stations history... thus the article in question.
Again, I'm not suggesting creating a list, just to have a list. I'm only suggesting noting air-personalities that impacted the radio station who the article is about. Whether or not the person is notable outside the radio station in question, really is irrelevant. As the article is suppose to be about a radio station and people/events that impacted it. It seems overly critical and editorial to leave someone who impacted a radio station out of an article, just because they aren't notable in LA. Djockers 20:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
I understand where you're coming from. And in no way do I wish to belittle anyone on the air in Cleveland, versus who's on the air in LA or NY. Most of the on-air people in those cities I wouldn't consider to be notable either. However, a station like KROQ has had many notable people that have worked there, some of them becoming quite well-known even outside of radio and some of them becoming legendary in the radio industry themselves.
A good example would be KIOI in San Francisco. The station was founded by James Gabbert, who's technological contributions to FM radio have been quite immense (he's one of the reasons we can actually hear FM radio in cars). You'll notice he's a red link, meaning that there is no article about him. But I still would consider him notable. Same with an air personality in a local market who could be considered a market legend. I don't think they necessarily have to have a Wikipedia article devoted to them in order to get a mention. But I don't think every single person that has ever worked at the station should be mentioned.
People that have impacted the history of the station are worth noting. Same with the long-time people. But I doubt that could be said of all of the current employees. Hence one of the reasons that including a station schedule would be irrelevant, in this way of thinking.
The main argument is about schedules and lists. I have seen way too many of these get way out of hand. But a mention in prose form (as I hastily tried to do on the WCBS-FM article) is, at least what I feel, a good compromising start. --Fightingirish 21:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

WWKF WAKQ-FM

It's late. All I know is this -- this article's name makes my head hurt. Any suggestions on what to do with this chaos? JPG-GR 06:50, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Lemme see what I can do here. - NeutralHomer T:C 07:26, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I think you will find the page quite cleaned up. - NeutralHomer T:C 07:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Alaska public radio networks

I have just reverted approximately 70 edits by User:Ohconfucius without any input to several radio networks within Alaska where he redirected translator stations to the parent article, despite comprehensive TX info within the infobox, write-up and FMQ/AMQ links in each article. He had also done the same by combining several Trinity Broadcasting Network TV translators into KTBN, which would have been way too hefty if he added every TBN translator in existence (this was addressed by me also within WP:TVS). I told him if he had any concerns with our article policy, he could have them addressed here. Nate 06:45, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Umm... WP:TVS not withstanding, it would appear that WP:WPRS doesn't HAVE a policy on translator stations having separate articles. Quite the contrary -- it was my understanding that they weren't to have separate articles at all. I'd argue that these translators aren't notable enough to warrant their own articles. JPG-GR 06:48, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
If I was in error as to your policies, my apologies. I thought it would be better addressed by an editor in Alaska than an editor from what appears to be Hong Kong, so if anyone from that area would like to put their input in, that would be welcomed. I just reverted them to their pre-OC state because it seemed to be done without a thought to AK radio article structure. Nate 06:55, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
No harm, no foul. If nothing else, this can get a consensus so we'll have something to work from in the future. JPG-GR 07:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
That would be great; since I mostly edit TV station articles it'll be much better in the hands of you all than just reverting and keeping the previous structure without input. Nate 07:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
  • I am sorry, but I do beg to disagree, strongly. I do believe there is consensus of sorts to delete or redirect: a similar case was discussed back in March of last year, and it was decided that repeater stations, which carry simulcasts of a given channel, are not stations in their own right. It is a particular wavelength allocated to a "foreign" station to expand its footprint using the same call-sign. In fact, there was nothing in the articles which indicated why the subject was notable. None of the articles were sourced, and even if sourced.... We had the same problem we had with radio and TV masts a while back (see my essay here), which documents the actions agreed on by the community - most of the articles were deleted in the end. As I happened to agree with the merger tag JPG-GR had put on K-Love, so I carried out the merger. Only I tried to do so methodically and more extensively on all such "non-stations" I could find. Ohconfucius 14:27, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I knew there was a precedent, just didn't know where. Well, be my guest and re-redirect all the radio station stuff. As for the TV stuff, best leave that to WP:TVS. JPG-GR 16:33, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
Finally found what I was looking for: Licensed radio and TV stations are notable if they broadcast over the air and originate at least a portion of their programming schedule in their own studios. As translators do not fulfill this criteria, they cannot have their own articles. As these translators are important to the greater station, merging is the appropriate move. JPG-GR 01:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
As I said on your talk page, if the translators are ultimately moved to the parent page, the information should be moved as well (ie: WNRN). - NeutralHomer T:C 01:44, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Once again, I ask you to read WP:MERGE. Obviously, if the pages are merged, the information will be integrated. That's what "merge" means. JPG-GR 01:56, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
...and that's all I ask is the information is intergrated. - NeutralHomer T:C 06:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Move request

A contributor has requested the move WAMC-FM → WAMC on the grounds that the station is more than just one FM station, and also broadcasts repeaters on AM stations. What is the general practice within this project for such pages? The move sounds reasonable, but better to check with the project first. ●DanMS • Talk 00:00, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

As far as I know, the request is sound (otherwise I wouldn't have made it ;-). But, I welcome anyone else's opinion. JPG-GR 00:02, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I was in the process of leaving you a message that I had posted this request here, but you replied here before I could complete my message to you! Note that I am not disputing the move—I just thought it better to get the opinions of the contributors in this project. Oftentimes members of a project have their own conventions and standards. ●DanMS • Talk 00:09, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I completely understand. Fair warning, though: activity on this project lately from more than a select few has been greatly lacking. JPG-GR 00:14, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I will move this in a couple of days if no one objects. If I forget, remind me on my talk page. ●DanMS • Talk 00:27, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Does WAMC still use the brand "Northeast Public Radio"? If so, then perhaps that's what the article should be titled, and then all of the stations (WAMC (AM), WAMC-FM, WAMK, WOSR, WCEL, WCAN, WAMQ, and others I've probably forgotten) can be redirects to that. (I suppose it would violate WP:NPOV to call it "Chartock Public Radio"....) 121a0012 05:49, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Radio Station Translators

I've spent the better part of the last couple hours working on creating a standardized way to list translators in a table so we can nip this style-issue in the bud before it starts. Right now, I've set up the table to hold call signs, frequencies, cities of licenses, and their data as found in the FCC database. Are there any other desired columns? (I'm working under the assumption that neither power nor class are necessary, but if there is desire, I can add them in). JPG-GR 06:24, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I would add a "notes" section for people to add in extra information. I think WP:TVS has a notes section as well. It could just go un-used on most stations, but where extra information is needed, it would be helpful. - NeutralHomer T:C 06:46, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Expert review: WONW

I originally asked WikiProject Ohio for a review of this article on a local Ohio radio station, but since I did not receive responses, I'm listing it here as well. As part of the Notability wikiproject, I am trying to sort out whether WONW is notable enough for an own article. For details, see the article's talk page. I would appreciate an expert opinion. If you can spare some time, please add your comments there. Thanks! --B. Wolterding 18:19, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

It's an FCC licensed station so it's notable, regardless of how small it is, however it does need to be cleaned up. Mr mark taylor 11:43, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
That and the claim to be around since 1948 is impressive. JPG-GR 00:47, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Also, Mr mark taylor, do we have a precedent for that? I had an issue a few months back with an officially licensed LP radio station being marked not notable. JPG-GR 01:49, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
I could see a problem with an LPFM station, since they cover a small area and are pretty weak in the wattage department, but I think all AM and FM stations get a page....I would say LPFMs would too, but I am not sure. - NeutralHomer T:C 02:05, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Like Mr mark taylor said, if it is listed on the FCC database, then it gets a page. I will add a infobox to the page for ya (it is a standard on all radio pages) and some external links as well (also standard). If you need any help, please let Mr mark taylor, JPG-GR, or myself know and we will be glad to help. Take Care and Have a Good Weekend....NeutralHomer T:C 01:40, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

WEUP

An issue:

  • WEUP, an article detailing both WEUP & WEUP-FM
  • WEUP-FM, an article detailing WEUP-FM

These are either gonna need to be combined or separated. I'm in the middle of another project at the moment, so can't get to it at the moment. Can someone else take care of this? Thanks! JPG-GR 18:32, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm new to the project but the Huntsville, Alabama, stations are high on my personal priority list so I'd be happy to take these on. They share ownership but little or no progamming so my plan is to separate the info for the AM and FM sides. - Dravecky 20:50, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Cool, thanks! JPG-GR 05:23, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I created separate pages at WEUP (AM) and WEUP-FM as well as a new page for each of the full-power simulcasters (WEUZ, WHIY, and WUEV) plus the three listed translators. Who knows when formats will shift so I think individual pages for each station (with appropriate references) is the way to go. Oh, and WEUP is now a disambiguation page. Enjoy. - Dravecky 03:48, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Formats

How descriptive should the formats be? I've seen some pages that only classify the station as Classic Rock or Hot AC but then again I've seen some stations that list every genre of music they play. Mr mark taylor 18:46, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Normally I just go with what 100000watts.com says the format is. As for some oldies stations (only ones I can hear), I will add "Classic Rock" since they do play it, but mostly I just stick with the one listed format. So, normally I just list the most played format. If it is like a "Jack" or "Bob" station, then that is considered Adult Hits.
When in doubt though, 100000watts.com is pretty much "on-the-money" with formats, but if you don't have an account, Radio-Locator.com works just as good. If you ever need any help or have any questions, please let me know and I will do my best to help. Take Care and Have a Good Weekend...NeutralHomer T:C 02:22, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Labeling radio formats, merging pages

Okay, here's the deal. I'm trying to organize all the stations that have or are still running freeform rock formats. Seems they're all over the place and link to unrelated stuff like progressive rock. So, I figured, what the heck - I'll combine all of them under freeform (radio format). I started changing the progressive rock links to freeform.

Well, there just so happens to exist another article called Progressive rock (radio format) that was started after the freeform article. It currently has no sources and lots of original research, etc. I decided the best thing to do is merge the two, and create one better article. Well, no sooner than I put up the tag, the 'gatekeeper' of the Progressive rock (radio format) damn near had a heart attack, opposed the merge tag, and set out to revert all my edits.

But this isn't about this silly little rift. This is about the name of the format. Freeform seems to be the best name for it, as the article has been around longer, is often referred to by that name, and has more links and more activity on it. Really, the name doesn't mean much, but the two articles need to be merged.

Oh, and while we're at it, how 'bout merging alternative rock and modern rock? Same damned thing. Or am I just asking too much?--Fightingirish 00:59, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I strongly believe that the freeform format and the progressive rock format, while related, are different formats. See Talk:Progressive rock (radio format) for my position and reasoning. I concede that Progressive rock (radio format) needs to be sourced better. I am agnostic on merging alternative rock and modern rock, as I don't have the same degree of familiarity with them. Wasted Time R 01:26, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Discussion - Ratings tables in violation of WP:NOT#STATS?

While I have no issue with current ratings being listed in radio station articles (until someone cites something telling me otherwise), listing ratings for the past x number of ratings seasons surely violates WP:NOT#STATS (see this dif as an example). I'm bringing it up here in hopes of establishing a consensus one way or the other before going through with any massive edits. Thanks! JPG-GR 01:55, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I normally go along the same lines as JPG-GR. I will say something like "this station was number 1 rated in the last ratings book" and then leave it at that and I think that does pretty well. As for the dif listed above, I don't see anything wrong with it....but I think that it does violate WP:NOT#STATS.
While typing this, I did come up with an idea. Would it be possible to add the current ratings, via Radio & Records, to the infobox? Just one line saying "Last Arbitron Rating: 3.5 (#10)" for example and then the rating itself linking to the respective Radio & Records market page. It would give some extra information to the article and would eliminate the need to ratings boxes like in the dif above. Take Care...NeutralHomer T:C 02:40, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
I'd have to disagree with the addition to the infobox (which is already becoming more and more needlessly cluttered). Additionally, as ratings change every season, the inclusion of any at all tends to result in pages always being somewhat out of date. JPG-GR 02:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Regarding the edit in question... It is not "long and sprawling", and it could be made neater and more readable to satisify the main issues behind WP:NOT#STATS. The list also references Arbitron and specific time periods, so it is verifiable. However, the specific ratings of one station don't have a whole lot of meaning without the context of other stations -- "what genres do other regional listeners listen to?" and "what happened at the station, or elsewhere, to create the huge jump from 2.7 to 3.6 during Spring 2007?" are questions I immediately asked myself. The article is good enough to explain the jump, but it doesn't cite the reasoning (I'm skeptical that "newer jingles" contributed significantly). The rest of that paragraph just isn't very clear and would be done better as a large table -- in which case WP:NOT#STATS would more clearly come into play. Done better, I would think that a "Ratings History" section may be interesting reading -- but it would need to be cited, limited in scope, and presented well. Personally, I'd remove the "WDVD has been eating away..." sentence as OR, call for a citation for the "...ratings have surged due to..." assertion, and clean up the table. My 2¢. HalJor 03:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Discussion - RE: "US radio stations by state" lists

I've managed to find a way to dump the entire FCC AM database into a file for quick analysis and sorting. With this file, I can now auto-generate tables listing all the AM stations for a frequency, a state, or even by city.

So, it's time we, as a group, decide on the best format for a sortable wikitable for the main list articles found in {{USRadio}}. If nothing else, I propose we start off with the first three columns as such, as all three of these are the most vital and all three can be pulled from the data in the database:

Call sign Frequency City of license

We've discussed other columns before (owner, format, branding) which might be beneficial, but would require more work, especially from those familiar with the stations.

So, what does everyone think? If nothing else, I can start generating them with these three columns leaving room for additions at the end later. JPG-GR 18:16, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I like the setup that I have for the List of radio stations in West Virginia. It includes "Call Sign", "Frequency", "Branding", "Format", "Website" (via a <sup></sup> WikiLink), "City" (COL), and "Notes" (for format changes, etc)...the latter could be replaced with "Owner" or have "Owner" be added in. I think that setup works well and it looks good on the page and doesn't throw too much information at the reader. Take Care...NeutralHomer T:C 19:49, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Columns for brandings, formats, and websites worry me -- when they change, they have to be changed in multiple places. I feel that that stuff is all better suited for the radio station articles themsevles (with the possibility of formats, which while subject to change, probably no more so than the call signs themselves). As for notes, I will always argue that that column is too risky for unimportant info to leak in and that any possible notes definitely make more sense in the articles themselves. JPG-GR 20:34, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Branding and web site should not be included. They are in the article and that is the only place that really needs them. Formats change, but the format can also be a useful search for someone who is on the road and looking for a station with a specific format, but are we a travel guide? Notes is generally important in tables, but in this case, are we again duplicating what is already in the station article? I suppose you could argue that if there was not article, then notes is a good place to build the article. Vegaswikian 22:17, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
I normally use the notes section for format changes with like a one-liner. For example on the List of radio stations in West Virginia, under WQZK in the notes section it says "was Rock until 01/09/07". Simple little bit of information. With the wikilink to the WQZK wikipage on the same line, the reader can go and see more information about it. Also, I use the notes section for ownership on College/High School stations, but not others (ie: commerical).
Though, I am guilty of adding too much information to a page sometimes. Mostly to give the reader as much information as possible. Take Care....NeutralHomer T:C 12:26, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
See, I still think stuff like that goes better in the article itself. If someone's coming along looking for their favorite rock station from 2006, I'd hope they'd remember the callsign or the frequency so they could find that the station changed its format. However, I would tend to agree with the addition of format. JPG-GR 17:28, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
While I agree that the notes section might be a good place to have if there's no article yet, I'd argue why not just create a stub to hold it? JPG-GR 17:28, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

(arbitrary de-indent) How about a column for owner/network? Hasn't been much discussion on that one. That would be useful for finding sister stations quickly, and isn't a bad thing to have. The only problem with this one is the terminology ("owner" or "network") and which info to use (actual owner or "licensee" as found in the FCC database). In my experience, the "licensee" information is less useful than it first appears (Ex: WDVD is owned by Citadel Broadcasting, but the FCC database yields a licensee of "Radio License Holding I, LLC" which means what exactly?)

-New Proposal-

Call sign Frequency City of license Owner Format

-JPG-GR 17:28, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I like the new proposal. I would stick with just owner though. Network would make me think about what news network they use for top-of-the-hour news. I would add "branding" and a <sup></sup> link for a website as well, but that is just me. But, the newest proposal I like. It gives enough information and leaves the rest to the actual article.
If used, what work would need to be done to roll this out? Also, would it be divided by AM and FM like I have the List of radio stations in West Virginia? Take Care...NeutralHomer T:C 17:37, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
The next question would be whether or not we want to do separate articles (i.e. List of AM radio stations in West Virginia and List of FM radio stations in West Virginia - this might be a better idea because (1) I can only quickly generate AM lists right now and (2) large states would have lists that are VERY long). As for rolling them out, as soon as we collectively reach a consensus (and I get done going through fixing article names for the AM stations - I'm at WJxx right now, have yet to do the K's), I can autogenerate them. No work needed, really. JPG-GR 18:32, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

An important field that no one has mentioned yet is market. This is important when there are several markets in one state, and when one market consists of several states. Sorting by city alone would leave out many radio stations available for reception. For example, in the NYC market, there are stations from both New York and New Jersey. Additionally, within the NYC market, there are many stations in New York that are not located in New York City. Also, within New York (state), there are many different markets. Sorting by market would group together the stations located together better than sorting by city of license. And to complicate things more, there are some stations that are licensed in one city, have studios in another, and transmit from yet another. Sometimes, these different cities even cross state lines. Something potentially more beneficial than separate pages by state would be pages by market (like the templates are now arranged). --Scott Alter 03:00, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

We could do a market-by-market page, but we have the templates for that...but also, what I hear in my market isn't the same as someone else who lives 5miles away in the same market. I personally would stick with just the state-by-state pages and leave the markets up to the templates. It is a good idea though. - NeutralHomer T:C 03:33, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm not against the by state pages, but think market is an important field. With your "5 miles away" example, from NYC, you can go just a few miles and end up in 2 different states. What I might hear in northern NJ or southern CT is more like what is in NYC than what is heard in the majority of New York state. --Scott Alter 03:49, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Indeed the market is, I am just not sure how to do it. I guess I am looking at the market thing from my view. Where I live, you go five miles you lose half the stations on the dial. That's what ya get when you live in the mountains of Virginia. So, if you look at the Winchester market, half of those market stations can't be heard 5 or 10 miles outside of town, while still being in the Winchester market. That's where it might get tricky in the rural areas, which is what I was meaning.
Now, with NYC, you go 5 or 10 miles, your dial might change ever so slightly, but not by much. I am more concerned with the rural areas where radio dials can and do change drastically over 5 or 10 miles in a market and that might confuse a reader. I like the idea and it could be done, it would just be tricky in some of the rural markets. - NeutralHomer T:C 03:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
The main issue with markets is the larger stations that appear in many, many markets. Take WJR. A good chunk of the eastern part of the country can get this station. While the markets are important - VERY important - I think it's best to leave that kind of info to the market templates we already have in place. JPG-GR 06:06, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, it's a good idea, but with the rural markets and the national stations like WJR and WLW, it would be hard to make them completely accurate. - NeutralHomer T:C 07:59, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletions (WP:PROD)

  • 25 August Plenty Valley FM (PROD by User:Mattinbgn; "...the local Community Radio Station for the Shires of Banyule, Nillumbik and Whittlesea." the listed Shires are in Australia)

KZQZ

can someone add more to the KZQZ article and add pictures. Alexh1013 03:17, 2 September 2007 (UTC)Alexh1013

I've Wikified it a bit, added appropriate article links, added a couple of references to FCC actions, and a bit of clean up. I know nothing about the station so that's all I can do for the moment. If you can find reliable sources for information, please feel free to add to this article any relevant data. (Also, see KBWF for the current home of this frequency.) - Dravecky 04:19, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

KMAV

If the AM and FM stations have playing separate programming for nearly four years then it's high time to give them separate articles as well. I propose KMAV (AM) and KMAV-FM with KMAV left as a disambiguation page. (I might get to this myself but if somebody else cares to tackle this then by all means, please feel free.) - Dravecky 07:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Done! - Dravecky 19:17, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

The Insanity Project

Part one is complete: List of AM radio stations in the United States by call sign (initial letter W). It took the better part of the summer, so the other three parts will probably take just as long.

I created the list, so you guys better get started on articles for all of those red links *wink* JPG-GR 18:30, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

The What Wikipedia is Not policy on what is not appropriate content specifically says that Wikipedia is not a place to put a directory. (Yes, I have an obvious interest in asking the question)... Why was this done? Sorting, collating and searching through the 14,000 radio stations (that's just in the United States) with hundreds of changes a week is a job for a database, not an encyclopedia. There is no semantic significance to an alphabetical list of radio stations - if someone is looking for a specific radio station, they are going to either do a search (if they know the call sign) or do a geographic search if they know where the station is located. Scanning a list of radio stations alphabetically adds no value.StreamingRadioGuide 15:43, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
And that's precisely why the older lists are being replaced with newer lists that are sortable by all the columns. As for these gigantic lists, I'm just following in the footsteps of WikiProject Television Stations. If these longer lists get deleted, I'll still have the info to build the state lists. Not much time or data lost at all. JPG-GR 16:21, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
I think the point was a big long list of alphabetic codes is a "paper encyclopedia" kind of thinking - the fact that WAAD is in between WAAC and WAAE tells you nothing about any of the three articles - therefore a sort by call sign has no value to the reader. If I sort by Frequency and station Wxxx is in front of Kzzz because 103.5 sorts before 103.7, what information does that convey? "Search" is a great concept and takes no work to maintain. The main bigger annoyance this is amplifying are the categories (Radio stations owned by Clear Channel, etc...) causing searches to get matches on totally unrelated articles (especially in Google) - I search for Wxxx and find an article for station Wzzz - only because both stations were in a list of Radio Stations airing sports talk in Wikipedia. Now this list of Stations starting with the letter W is creating "matches" on searches with no articles. If I do a search on grapefruit, I don't want a "List of all fruits that begin with the letter G" to direct me to an article on guava trees. There is so much work that needs to be done with an obvious tangible benefit for the visitors. And each additional list/categorization increases the work load every time a station changes its call sign. Note that over the next few months, around 500 Clear Channel stations are being divested, which is going to generate a huge amount of change in formats, call signs and ownership. I guess what caused me to repond initiaully was the *wink* that others were now supposed to do the additional work this list created. Does its inclusion in an alphabetical list make a radio station notable?... but that's a much bigger can of worms. StreamingRadioGuide 16:13, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Once again, WP:TVS set the precedent of every full-power, licensed television station being notable enough for an article. JPG-GR 19:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Notice that all of my comments and opinions are about Radio lists, not TV. Is there a similar policy statement about notability of radio stations?StreamingRadioGuide 20:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
There's no policy statement in the first place (that I've ever been shown), just the precedent. JPG-GR 21:07, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Participants List

Any objections to changing the lengthy, numbered participant list to an alphabetized, name only, three column list? JPG-GR 22:46, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

 Done - JPG-GR 00:57, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Should there be navigational boxes/templates for unranked markets that have a significant amount of radio signals but don't fall into a market (the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont comes to mind, there are radio stations up there but no numbered market. Mr mark taylor 18:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I have used templates for markets that are unranked. See the Kingwood/Oakland template for an example. What I do is just add {{Arbitron|unranked}} to it and make the template. I would say make the template, but just add the "unranked" tag for the Arbitron market. Take Care...NeutralHomer T:C 21:03, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

DEFAULTSORT

Any issue with recommending that a DEFAULTSORT tag be added to all radio station pages to prevent them from bunching up in the W, K, C etc. sections in category listings?--Rtphokie 17:50, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

As I mentioned on my talk page, when a station will be a long list of stations all with the same starting letter then it's appropriate to sort on the second letter. For example, in "Radio stations in Huntsville, Alabama", all of the FCC-licensed stations start with W so they should be sorted on the second letter. But in cases where W and K stations are mixed, such as the format categories and most other geograpically non-specific categories, the sort should be on the first letter so all the Ks are together and all the Ws are together for logical sorting. - Dravecky 18:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
This would make sense for categories that have articles other than radio stations in them (such as city categories). But what about categories like "Sports radio in the United States", "Talk radio stations", "Urban adult contemporary radio stations", etc which are completely made up of radio station articles. By sorting by the first letter as normal, we end up with only headings, K's and W's. Wouldn't these categories be more readble more headings were available?.--Rtphokie 23:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Some categories are more readable broken up the way you suggest and that's what the pipe is for. But does it make more sense to scatter the 18 Ks in "Urban adult contemporary radio stations" among the 88 total entries in small clumps that will appear out of alphabetical order? And globally adding a defaultsort will require manually revisiting thousands of articles to fix multiple categories in each article so they sort properly. Ironic, I know, but adding defaultsort here would cause the problems that it's intended to solve. - Dravecky 01:12, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
DEFAULTSORT is a terrible idea when it comes to radio station articles, as different categories need to be sorted different ways. It's a life saver for biographies, but would wreak havoc on radio station articles. JPG-GR 05:18, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

is it -FM or (AM) or -AM and (FM) or (AM) and (FM)

The example shown in the naming policy violates its own rule. It starts out saying to use (AM) (FM) and (TV) for stations which share the same base call sign, but then the example says KCBS (AM), KCBS-FM, and KCBS-TV. Which way is it - and what is the rationale for (AM) vs -AM? Is it that the same company owns both stations? (I just handled this situation with WMAJ-FM.... there is a WMAJ-AM - both are actually owned by the same company, but with different licensee names)... this inconsistency is part of the reason there are many unmatched links in the List of All radio Stations beginning with the letter W. Whatever the rule is, at least make the rule match its example.StreamingRadioGuide 16:13, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I created three articles today for three religious radio station that were purchased and assigned new call signs and changed formats from Classical Music to Religious Talk. I originally created the article as XXXX, then did a move to XXXX-FM to create a redirect automatically if someone searched on XXXX. I referenced the article to the old call signs (which did not have articles) as they were satellite stations of a larger station under the prior ownership. There are no XXXX (AM) articles).

The rule of using the government issued Call Sign (the FCC for US Licensed stations) is contradicted by the project guidelines... the example for WRHU differentiates whether to create a redirect page based on the existence of a conflict with an existing article - not whether the FCC has issued an ambiguous call sign based on the same four character base sign. If I follow the "FCC database is the authority" rule, there would be no article for WRHU-FM at all - since the official callsign IS WRHU. So the example violates its own rule. All I'm asking for is a consistent set of reasonable rules, so people don't start a revert war when I did exactly what the WRHU-FM example does - see WZWP.StreamingRadioGuide 20:54, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm searching for a better example for the rule right now. After found, I will correct the example, and then further explain here. JPG-GR 20:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

(de-indent) Here's a quick and dirty way to put it for US radio stations - the name of a radio station article is to be the call sign as found in the FCC database at all times, including the "-FM" suffix when assigned (there is NO "-AM" suffix for any FCC-licensed station). When necessary (and only when necessary), proper disambiguation for a radio station article is the appropriate (AM) or (FM). JPG-GR 21:10, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Systemic Bias

This morning, I was reviewing the purpose of the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countering_systemic_bias project, which is trying to address content imbalances due to the editors not being representative of the general public(being typically more male, young, technical and highly educated). One bias I have noticed in the radio station articles is a lack of articles on radio stations owned by religious organizations - even just basic templates. According to my count, there are about 2,000 licensed stations in the United States programmed with religious talk/ministry or Christian Music. About 950 of those have web sites. The guidelines suggest that editors fill in content, even if it is at odds with their own personal bias or interests. Any volunteers to address this bias?StreamingRadioGuide 16:42, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

What you call bias I call ignorance, and not in a bad way. Implying that articles don't exist because people are against the stations' beliefs does not assume good faith. Perhaps because people do not listen to these stations, they are not aware of them, especially not to the point that they can write an article about them? JPG-GR 19:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
When you take the time to read the Project article, it clearly states the bias trying to be corrected is not one of deliberate distortion - but rather that of lack of balance due to the omission of content due to the demographics and interests of the editors. The reason for bringing this global effort up to the members of this project is to suggest that there is need for improvement in this area, not malice by its members.StreamingRadioGuide 19:53, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I've got to wonder what the purpose of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countering_systemic_bias, is it producing any articles or updating any existing ones? We've got enough projects pointing out what they think is wrong with Wikipedia. We need more (like Wikipedia:WikiProject_Radio_Stations actually) that get their hands dirty and improve coverage of a topic.--Rtphokie 01:24, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Important warning: fair use rationales for radio logos

Be warned that fair use rationales with have got be full, complete and watertight. I have had a contribution speedily deleted under CSD#I6 under WP:NFCC#10c, even though it had this rationale, which I thought would cover it. I have also had an official warning for the text below on the aforementioned contribution:

  1. It is a logo of a pay television service which cannot be described in prose;
  2. There is no free alternative available;
  3. The logos inclusion to the article is paramount as it was the subject of a major advertising campaign;
  4. It is a low resolution image of the logo;
  5. It is a historically significant episode and logo of British Sky Broadcasting.

I have not come across a radio logo image which has as much as this, and it is likely that all of these are likely for deletion. If you have updated anything, make sure it is watertight and complete, and add as much information as you can. Seems paranoia about copyright is creeping in. --tgheretford (talk) 10:28, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

{{Non-free use rationale}} is your friend. The bots are looking for this template, example:
{{Non-free use rationale
|Article=WKRP
|Description=WKRP Logo
|Source= Station's website: http://www.wkrpbooger.com
|Portion= complete logo is used
|Low_resolution= yes
|Purpose= central to station's identification
|Replaceability= no free replacement exists
|other_information= 
}}


--Rtphokie 12:47, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

The main problem is that the guidelines for non-template use were written before the template was created, and according to WP:FURG, a non-template detailing the rationale should be acceptable. I'll raise discussion there. --tgheretford (talk) 13:24, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
I fixed that rationale see [4] you had the wrong page listed in the rationale. βcommand 14:14, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Internet Radio

Does the scope of this WikiProject include Internet Radio for those stations that only exist on the internet and have no air-broadcast parent? --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:20, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Naming conventions for Philippine FM stations

Hello. I've noticed that Frj1947 mass moved Philippine FM stations without discussion, but with good reason, seeing the naming conventions this Wikiproject has. However, since stations from Centran & South America are excluded, I ask Philippine FM radio stations are to be included in the excluded territories since majority of the FM stations do not have callsigns or part of their callsigns within their names, and some even do not use their callsigns at all in advertisement. This is also to follow Wikipedia's general naming conventions where the most popular name is used. Thanks. --Howard the Duck 16:45, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

  • My apology, I'll move back the 97.1 frequency to the brand name in the meantime. Meanwhile, 98.7 and 104.3 is well known for its callsign. I know that my next question may not be appropriate here. If FM station articles follow the name in accordance to the branding, why it is not applied to Philippine Television stations? Many of the TV stations in the Philippines (original or full-relay) are not called by the callsigns either, it is called by the network. -Frj1947 10:02, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
    • I actually think that should be the case for TV stations too, for example, DZBB-TV should be at GMA-7 Manila (since there'll be a lot of GMA-7s), but this is for another WikiProject. As for 98.7 and 104.3, they're rarely called by their callsigns, they're most likely known via they're air name (I dunno the term), like "The Master's Touch" and "Business Radio" (they even omit the frequency). In fact many radio stations nowadays do not even advertise their callsigns. For example, Magic 89.9 only announce their callsign on their station ID, you may argue that's a lot of times, but more often, their diskjockeys won't even say, "you're listening to DWTM, Magic 89.9," they'd omit "DWTM," although several other stations retain their callsigns or part of it, like Monster Radio RX 93.1 and YES! FM (their callsign is DYES, but it should really be at Yes FM 101.1).
    • It is a mixed bag really, so we should abide by the most general rule, name articles according to their most popular names. If there should be any rule, the frequency must be in the title. --Howard the Duck 16:45, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I think, you're right. Maybe calling a station's callsign on-air is not mandated by the NTC. Where can the Philippine TV or Radio station naming conventions be discussed? -Frj1947 18:53, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I guess this is the right place? --Howard the Duck 19:03, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Currently in a minor editing conflict with another editor. Radio station websites are already linked in the infobox. Should they or can they also be linked in "External links"? Wanted to get a consensus here.--Fightingirish 01:13, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I fail to see why you'd want to list the same link twice in the same article. It's completely unnecessary. JPG-GR 01:14, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I've merely been doing this because all the articles had it. I have no problem with it, just wanted to know what the deal was.
Incidentally, I've been doing quite a bit of cleanup on articles tonight, adding Radio Locator links, adding wikilinks, cleaning up layout and removing schedules and other cruft. Cheers!--Fightingirish 01:19, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Arbitron market templates

I'm pondering the creation of a category (specifically, a sub-category of Category:United States radio navigational boxes) which will contain the templates for the 300 current Arbitron markets. Here are the two things to resolve:

Also, we should probably establish a consistent format for these navigational templates, but that's a discussion for later in the week/month. Your input, as always, please. JPG-GR 08:17, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Years in radio

I was surfing around tonight, and happened across this. What a great idea! This would be a nice addition to the project, and would also be nice to sub in for years on radio station articles (i.e. 2007 becomes 2007, or [[2007]] becomes [[2007 in radio|2007]]). I have started changing links for this, so that soon, a simple click of "what links here" will bring up various radio-oriented articles from which to compile events for a particular year. --Fightingirish 08:24, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

This a potentially very good idea - the radio project should regard these articles as very important for radio and should aim to add full details for each year as soon as possible ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "Talk"? 08:58, 6 October 2007 (UTC)


New project for people who like insanity

Thought List of AM radio stations in the United States by call sign (initial letter W) was fun? How about this one? I dub it "Radio establishments." Basically, it involves a year, a list of establishments, and a year for radio station establishments. I got the ball rolling somewhat, but like the TV establishment pages, this will help keep radio stations organized by their initial sign-on dates. Of course, we are talking about initial debut dates, not the year they switched to Top 40 or whatever. Anyone who has a little time to kill is more than welcome to pitch in.

Oh, and these must be confirmed sign-on years. --Fightingirish 20:32, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Caution: Wikipedia is not a crystal ball

Case in point - KXTY (99.7)... Finding a news blurb that says "Company A has agreed to purchase radio station Wxxx from Company B" does NOT mean that Company A now owns station Wxxx. In this example, it appears the deal fell through, and now Lazer communications has acquired the rights to purchase WXTY from Mapleton, which failed to close the deal [assumption, since it has been a year since the original announcement]. With the upcoming disgorgement of around 500 Clear Channel Stations, and the ripple effects, it is really important to not update the page announcing a new owner until the transaction is actually completed and the FCC license transferred.StreamingRadioGuide 21:19, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, though it should be mentioned in the article if a particular deal is pending. Also, if there is an LMA arrangement in effect, that should be noted as well (as many sale deals do have these, though there must be proof before that is brought up). Otherwise, I agree, though sadly, many people who edit these articles have no clue about the efforts of WPRS, and turn out some rather crappy articles.--Fightingirish 08:16, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

List of radio stations in Rhode Island

I invite everyone to take a look at this ongoing "debate" and contribute your own two-cents, whether it's in agreement with my take or not. Thanks! JPG-GR 05:05, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

KSLI (AM)

I was led to believe that all full-power FCC licensed radio stations were inherently notable. An editor has tagged KSLI (AM) and I can't find any text to back up an inherent notability claim. Why this one station out of 14000? Who knows. But if others could weigh in on this, it would be appreciated. - Dravecky 05:43, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I have removed the tag after correcting two templates - they were pointing to non-existent KSLI-FM, which is hardly notable due to lack of existence ;-) JPG-GR 05:45, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
The same editor has returned the tag and wonders about notability (again). - Dravecky 07:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletion: Brokered Time

Brokered Time (via WP:PROD on 13 October 2007) Kept

--User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:35, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
updated --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:37, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Call signs

Before I go, I figure I'll spark up one final discussion. From the WP:WPRS page itself:

  • "For articles on stations located in countries which do use government-issued call signs, the official call sign should be used."
  • "Verify: For all stations with call signs, check that the call sign used in the article (and article title, where applicable) is the correct one for that station."

I interpret these both as I feel they were written: in countries who use call signs (i.e. the U.S.), refer to stations by their call sign. Quite simply, if there is an FM station WQWE-FM, it is WQWE-FM and should be referred to as such at all times, be it in article titles, templates, or whatever. Likewise, an AM staiton WQWE should be WQWE at all times (with the exception of WQWE (AM) as an article title, so a dab page can be located at WQWE proper). The station should never be referred to as WQWE-AM because that's not what the station is called. If your name is Joe Smith, and someone calls you Joe Thompson, they are solely confused. This situation is no different.

If there are editors out there who disagree with this (and I know they are), I invite them here to explain their side of the story, so that the other members can show them the error of their ways.

Thank you, and take care everyone. JPG-GR 17:44, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Just curious if anyone is interested in this part of discussion -- is the policy clear and no one wants to discuss it or no one feels it's important? Just curious. Thanks! JPG-GR 19:11, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
I dont know that there is anything to be discussed, when you are right you are right. Let's make it canon.--Rtphokie 19:51, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Well, I too thought this was clear. But, it's templates such as Template:Elkins-Buckhannon-Weston Radio where this debate originated. User:Neutralhomer seems to want to put the non-existent "-AM" suffix on AM stations where there is a similarly named FM station in the same market, despite the fact that that's essentially calling and apple an orange. In other words, if the consensus is "use the official callsign" (which is always has been, as near as I can tell), the templates in the Mid-Atlantic US region need some basic cleanup. JPG-GR 20:00, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Another option might be to just have one link to WDNE -- WOSlinker 20:36, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Hmm... not all that in favor of that one, especially since the link won't be bold on the article page if the link doesn't point to it. JPG-GR 20:37, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
That, and technically, as the callsign of WDNE (the AM station) is "WDNE", it would appear that WDNE-FM was being left off the list. JPG-GR 20:41, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
As I expected, User:Neutralhomer has continued to ignore the policy, as shown here, here, and here. I'd recommend that for now we ignore these templates, finish with the rest of them, and then if User:Neutralhomer continues to not follow the guidelines as set forth by the project, deal with them then. Good luck editing, everyone. JPG-GR 22:36, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I figured the confusion about US station article names would have died down by now. I think the Wikipedia standard for callsign titles has been pretty clear: If there are an AM and an FM in the United States with the same base callsign XXXX, the AM's article is "XXXX (AM)" because XXXX is its legal callsign and (AM) is a Wikipedia disambiguation; the FM's article is "XXXX-FM" because that's its legal callsign and probably won't need disambiguation; and "XXXX" is a disambiguation page.

Here is a walk-through list for normal broadcast stations in the United States. (Wikipedia rules for Canada and Mexico are similar, but the callsigns have different prefixes there.)

  1. Check FCC AM Query, FCC FM Query, or FCC TV Query — or the amazing little page FCCinfo to look up historic callsigns and have it tell you what the legal suffix is. -XX means legal suffix on the callsign; (XX) means no suffix on the callsign. Don't depend on the station's website or chatter; they may use the an unofficial suffix for marketing.
  2. Does the station have -FM/-TV/-CA/-DT/-LP/-LD as a suffix after the first 3-4 letters in its official, legal FCC callsign? If YES, go to #3. If NO, go to #4.
  3. Name the station article XXXX-YY with the suffix. Add a the article as a redirect or disambiguation option to the article XXXX with no suffix. If you wish, make XXXX (YY) a redirect to XXXX-YY. Finished.
  4. Does any other station have the same 3-4 letter base callsign but with a suffix? If YES, go to #5. If NO, go to #6.
  5. Name this station's article XXXX (YY) with the proper AM, FM, or TV. If the other station has an article named incorrectly, move it XXXX-ZZ to match its legal callsign. Make a disambiguation page at XXXX to point to all articles. Finished.
  6. Does any other Wikipedia article (probably not about a station) use the same 3-4 letter article name as the station? If YES, go to #7. If NO, go to #8.
  7. Name this station's article XXXX (YY) with the proper AM, FM, or TV. Move the other (non-station) Wikipedia article to a more specific name, possibly with parentheses. Make a disambiguation page at XXXX to point to all articles including stations and non-stations. Finished.
  8. Name the station's article XXXX with no parentheses or suffix. Finished.

Maybe this can be pasted somewhere as a guide — unless it's even more confusing than usual. And remember: If you think a United States station has an -AM suffix, you're getting wrong information! (Canada and Mexico are a different story.) --Closeapple 03:27, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Navboxes - Merge AM & FM ?

At the United States radio navigational boxes category, there are a few navboxes where AM & FM are in the same template and a lot where AM & FM are in separate templates. Just wondering if it would be a good idea to merge the AM & FM templates? e.g. Instead of Template:Bakersfield AM and Template:Bakersfield FM, there would just be Template:Bakersfield Radio -- WOSlinker 22:19, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

That is what has been done with Template:Baltimore Radio among others. That "trend" was started by another user, so I guess that is what we are supposed to be doing. If not, then there is ALOT of revert work to be done. I am confused myself. - NeutralHomer T:C 23:06, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
I've converted Template:Bakersfield Radio, so you can now compare the separate & merged versions. Also gone with Navbox & changed pipes to dots. -- WOSlinker 23:35, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
There has been no stated consensus/policy so far on which is the preferred way. JPG-GR 00:27, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Ooook....then, if I might ask, then why did you combine the AM and FM templates (like Template:Baltimore Radio) if there was no consensus? - NeutralHomer T:C 00:32, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I was being bold. I'd ask why you continue to use call signs that aren't correct when that IS the consensus/policy, but that never really stopped you before.... JPG-GR 00:47, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
JPG-GR, we are not continuing your "pissing match" here, this discussion is about NavBoxes. - NeutralHomer T:C 01:41, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Okay, back on topic, there are certainly radio markets that can be served by a single template while others are best split between AM and FM. Maybe a certain number of stations could be the deciding factor? That said, I see no reason to redo existing templates given the sheer volume of other useful infrastructure work that remains to be done. - Dravecky 02:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I think the previous templates looked great, personally. But, going with what Dravecky said above, I think some markets (with large numbers of stations) should be split into two templates, like Template:Norfolk-Virginia Beach-Newport News Radio. The Norfolk/Hampton Roads template is crazy huge with AM and FM put together. I think markets like this should have a split template.
Now, the Hampton Roads template, I did do that one, but that is because others were done like it, if it stands to be split back to AM and FM seperate I will do that. - NeutralHomer T:C 03:34, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
One advantage of the merged versions is that from a particular station topic, it is easier to see all the radio stations in the area rather than just seeing half of them in the navbox. -- WOSlinker 10:35, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
True, but my concern is when the BIG markets (NYC, LA, Chicago, etc) the templates will be HUGE. That is my main concern. I know like small markets, like say Winchester, the merged template works great (that market was already in merged). - NeutralHomer T:C 10:45, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
WOSlinker - I agree with your logic, which is exactly why I started merging the templates originally. There is no market too big for merging, as I can cite dozens of non-radio templates that are HUGE. The difference between AM and FM radio is big in the radio station world, but miniscule in the grand scheme of things. JPG-GR 16:55, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, but when you have a template taking up a crap load of a page, it is a little silly. Since you didn't get a consensus, I don't see how you can saying "no market too big for merging". You didn't ask anyone else, you just went and did (like you normally do). Redo the NYC market or the LA market and you will see what I mean. - NeutralHomer T:C 17:02, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Hence the conversion to the navbox collapsible template, solving this issue. Also, hence why I started systematically working from market #302, not market #1. Consensus is a good thing to have, but is not mandatory in all cases (see WP:BOLD). Also, please cut out the personal attacks. I attacked you once in this conversation, and I apologize, but you continue to attack me here, at my talk page, at your talk page, and at others' talk pages. JPG-GR 17:08, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, but market #302 looks ALOT different and market #2. But it appears this part of this discussion is moot as it appears someone has added the NavBox templates to the seperate AM and FM templates for Markets 1, 2, and 4 but the combined template for Market 3....market 5 remains on the old template. Mootness. - NeutralHomer T:C 17:25, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
If the 302 templates aren't even consistent in style, let alone in AM-FM vs. AM & FM, how is the point possibly moot? JPG-GR 17:28, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
If you would have read the whole paragraph I wrote, "it appears someone has added the NavBox templates to the seperate AM and FM templates for Markets 1, 2, and 4 but the combined template for Market 3." It would appear that the BIG market part of the conversation is moot. - NeutralHomer T:C 17:37, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
You just said (again) that markets 1,2,4 use the same format (meaning AM-FM vs. AM & FM) but 3 doesn't. How does that make the big market part of the conversation moot? What am I missing here? JPG-GR 17:47, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
"it appears someone has added the NavBox templates to the seperate AM and FM templates for Markets 1, 2, and 4, but the combined template (still Navbox) for Market 3". Got it now? - NeutralHomer T:C 17:55, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't aware that the switch to the navbox format was even ever up for debate - that's happening across all of WP, afterall. I thought we were just discussing if the templates should be separate or not? In other words, yes, the conversion to navbox point is moot, but was moot before this discussion. JPG-GR 18:07, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Ah, for the love of Pete....we were talking about the templates for the bigger markets (the combined AM/FM templates) being HUGE. I voiced a concern about the BIG markets (being 1-NYC, 2-LA, 3-Chicago, 4-San Fran, and 5-DFW). I noticed that those templates (well, 1-4) were already switched to the NavBox format (with 1, 2, and 4 being seperate AM and FM and 3 being combined AM/FM). THAT part was moot, it had nothing to do with the NavBoxes themselves, nor was there anything in that was even close to stating that. - NeutralHomer T:C 18:21, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Well, in the future, you may want to be a little clearer, especially in a multi-threaded discussion like this (yes, it appears your point is slightly more clearer when I go back and read this entire sub-thread all the way up, but in a complicated section like this one, that's a little tedious). JPG-GR 18:24, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Another thing to discuss is should the callsign be separate from frequency or should they be together. Compare Template:Bakersfield FM and Template:Piedmont Triad FM. -- WOSlinker 18:16, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
See, I like the setup for the Bakersfield template. It has the calls and freqs, but not together...and seperate from the AMs, so it is not cluttered. - NeutralHomer T:C 18:22, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I GREATLY prefer them separate. Sure, it may make the template a little bigger, but it's nice to be able to search the template quickly for what you're looking for, rather than try and decipher where in the list the callsign is you're looking for (when sorted by frequency) or vice versa. In my experience, the separated way is probably in practice 65-75% of the time. JPG-GR 18:23, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
...and it is not just you who decides, it's everyone, hence consensus. - NeutralHomer T:C 18:24, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I'll assume good faith and believe that you misread my statement. Because I refuse to believe that we're completely in agreement and you CONTINUE to attack me. JPG-GR 18:35, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Separate lists for the frequencies and the call signs make for faster searching and easier use. The size difference is far outweighed by the utility of reference. - Dravecky 20:54, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
That's my personal opinion, is that seperate lists are better. When you have a combined AM/FM list, everything kinda "melds" into everything. I kinda understand the combined list for the really small markets, say Market #50 to #302, but #49 and up should be seperate AM and FM templates to make for easier reading.
JPG...you, good faith...HA! - NeutralHomer T:C 06:04, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
I dont think we need to have them all seperate or all together. For some markets it's much more convenient to have them seperate just because of size. For others it makes sense to keep them together. I would like to see some standardization in the template names. How about <market name> [AM|FM|Radio]. For US, Arbitron can be used to determine the market name, for other countries, the government entity controlling either the census or the airwaves could be used (and documented here). How does that sound--Rtphokie 19:54, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
I think the main issue is how many Arbitron markets are split, and needlessly so. Random example of the moment: Template:Boise FM & Template:Boise AM. Both are EASILY combinable. On the large, I agree that it should be a case-by-case basis. However, anything lower than (number from a hat) Arbitron market #20 on has no reason to be separate. JPG-GR 19:57, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

For very large radio markets like New York, Los Angeles or Toronto, splitting into AM or FM templates is legitimate. (It may not be exactly ideal, but I don't have any better ideas off the top of my head.) Most radio markets, however, should have a single merged template. Due to regulatory differences, of course (the CRTC being much more restrictive about how many stations can be licensed in a given market than the FCC is, frex), Canadian and American markets don't necessarily have to be treated the same way, but for Canadian templates my own personal rule of thumb has been not to split until we're looking at 10 or more AM stations on one template — which, in effect, has meant that only the top three Canadian radio markets (Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver) actually have split templates at present. Bearcat 21:04, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Even for the big markets, I dont see separating them buying us that much. It doesn't save much space and isn't any harder to read. Having the merged callsign list (both AM and FM) is a nice benefit of the merged lists. And for the record, the issue of converting to a navbox and the issue of merging AM and FM should be seperate issues. Converting to Navbox is very necessary because it allows easy hiding and quick access to view and edit the templates.--Rtphokie 00:28, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
In principle, I agree with you. Until just now, I didn't know that the Bellingham/Forks/Port Angeles, WA section had been transferred from the Vancouver template to its own separate one. The Van templates are very mergeable now that that's been done — they weren't previously. Bearcat 20:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest that these all be converted to use the {{navbox}} template. This allows controlling of the collapsible parameter so larger markets can be set to autocollapse. This would be an issue if larger markets have many stations. Also editors need to start using   and {{nowrap}} to keep from splitting entries across lines. This provides for a common layout for navboxes when articles have multiple ones. One unified look rather then a different look for each template. Vegaswikian 23:46, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I am all for the NavBox template. It will take sometime to get used to (I am still used to the old template) but I like the new one. - NeutralHomer T:C 06:49, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
BTW, Virginia, West Virginia, and Maryland are all updated with the NavBox template. - NeutralHomer T:C 06:50, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
I've converted a few over to the Navbox template but just wondering if might be better to create a "Navbox radio" template which is just a wrapper around the navbox template. -- WOSlinker 11:23, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
{{Navbox radio
|name=
|title=
|FM=
|AM=
|callsign=
|notes=
This is what I am using.... - NeutralHomer T:C 12:07, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
{{navbox
|name=NAME Radio
|title=Radio stations in the [[NAME]] market {{Arbitron|###}}
|group1=By FM [[frequency]]
|list1= 
|group2=By AM [[frequency]]
|list2= 
|group3=By [[callsign]]
|list3= 
|list4= {{STATE Radio Markets}}
}}<noinclude>
[[Category:Radio stations in STATE| {{PAGENAME}}]]
</noinclude>
group1 & group2 could have some extra links on FM & AM. -- WOSlinker 12:49, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
|group1 = By [[FM broadcast|FM]] [[frequency]]
|group2 = By [[AM broadcast|AM]] [[frequency]]
Those fields never really change. It's the "list" fields where I put the wikilinks for the freqs, calls, etc. - NeutralHomer T:C 12:53, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Might have a better link for callsign. -- WOSlinker 15:24, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
|group3 = By [[North American call sign|callsign]]
If we're talking strictly US and Canada stations (which I believe we are), that would be the better choice. JPG-GR 18:42, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

FM before AM or AM before FM?

I know this is probably a minor nitpick, but is there any reason that FM frequencies are being listed before AM frequencies in the new templates and many of the new sortable tables? I would think that the logical order would be AM before FM; both alphabetically, numerically (kHz < MHz), and chronologically (AM was around before FM). DHowell 21:47, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I personally think it would be a good idea. I would like to know what everyone else thinks. - NeutralHomer T:C 22:24, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I think the only argument for FM before AM in the templates would be the (arguable) greater popularity. I, however, am not making that argument. AM logically comes first. HOWEVER, the reason FM comes first in the new, sortable tables is simply a matter of the sort mechanism - having AM sort first would mean additional hidden characters, which would just bog down the servers and cause the pages to load slower. The only reason to sort by frequencies in the first place on those lists (that I can think of) would be to find similarly frequency'd stations. JPG-GR 22:43, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I highly doubt switching would "bog down the servers" and that there would have to be "additional hidden characters". Take this template for example, all I did was swap the AM and FM information around. No added characters, no bogging, no slow loading. Really simple, actually. - NeutralHomer T:C 23:01, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I was talking about the state lists, not the market templates. JPG-GR 23:04, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Ah, then you should have made that slightly more clear. I don't know what you use for those pages, but I bet you could probably do the same swap I did on the above template. - NeutralHomer T:C 23:08, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
No, because that would require many additional hidden characters which would bog down the servers unnecessarily. The templates are a quick copy/paste with a couple rows of text. The state lists are much, much more complicated in terms of structure. JPG-GR 23:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
AM before FM not only makes sense in both an alphabetical and chronological sense, it just feels right. - Dravecky 03:35, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Well, that maybe so (personally I say if it is that much trouble, find any easier way) but that is for a totally different discussion. Back to the AM/FM or FM/AM on templates. - NeutralHomer T:C 23:33, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I didn't change the subject - User:DHowell mentioned the "new sortable tables" in his initial post. JPG-GR 23:41, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Whoops, my mistake there. - NeutralHomer T:C 23:48, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I don't mind either way if it's AM or FM first, but if someone wants to change all the templates, that quite a bit of work. They might want to see about using AWB. -- WOSlinker 06:41, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm not buying the argument about hidden characters "bogging down the server". Even if it were true, see Wikipedia:Don't worry about performance. Also, there are several ways to make the frequencies sort, for example putting the "AM" or "FM" before the frequency number instead of after, and using an nonbreak-space and a normal space before the three digit numbers, but only a nonbreak space before the four digit numbers. See, for example, the {{radiolist AM}} and {{radiolist FM}} templates I created and used in lists like List of radio stations in Los Angeles. The following is a table which lists several tricks for sorting the frequency:
Call Sign FM before AM (hidden zeroes) AM before FM (hidden zeroes) xM nnnn nbsp-space trick xM nnnn using hidden zeroes
KFWB 0980 AM 00980 AM AM  980 AM 0980
KNX 1070 AM 01070 AM AM 1070 AM 1070
KLSX 0097.1 FM 097.1 FM FM  97.1 FM 097.1
KIIS 0102.7 FM 102.7 FM FM 102.7 FM 102.7
I don't know if any of these are more server-friendly than any others, but they are all pretty much functionally equivalent. Also, the number of hidden zeroes in the AM before FM case may not be much different than in the FM before AM case, assuming AM/FM comes after the frequency; it all depends on whether there are more FM stations between 100-108 MHZ than AM stations between 1000-1700 kHz. On the other hand, if AM/FM comes before the frequency, there would be even fewer hidden zeros. DHowell
One thing that might be a real problem with the hidden zeroes trick is accessibility. I don't know how screen readers for the blind typically treat the "display: none" attribute, but it is conceivable that some may read "K F W B zero zero nine hundred eighty A M". I don't know whether this is enough of a problem that we need to worry about it, though. DHowell 23:28, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

State Radio Lists

I've started generating the state radio lists, as located at List of radio stations in STATE. This time around, I'm generating the tables with callsigns, frequences, and cities of license only -- that's the easy stuff that I can pull right from the FCC database in a snap. The owners and formats, however, aren't so easy. By generating these lists with only the first three columns, not only can we get everything more consistent quicker, it's also possible for everyone else to edit these new lists right away, rather than delaying them sometimes a week or two at a time as I try to find the time to fill in the blanks. If you're interested in filling in owners/formats blanks, I've generated List of radio stations in Maine and List of radio stations in Wyoming this evening. And, if you're looking for a state in particular to get generated sooner rather than later, shoot me a note on my talk page. Happy editing! JPG-GR 02:50, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

State Flags

User:Rfc1394 is adding animated state flags to the market templates, I will to my best to revert, but if someone could give me a hand, I would apppericate it. - NeutralHomer T:C 13:29, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

An admin and I knocked 'em out, but do keep an eye on that user's contribs. - NeutralHomer T:C 14:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Defunct radio stations no longer in templates

The new combined templates, e.g. {{Los Angeles Radio}}, no longer have the defunct stations that were in the old FM and AM templates. Is there any consensus for this? Should I put them back? Should I create separate templates for defunct stations in each market (probably only the larger markets have any significant amount of articles about defunct stations, so please don't worry about me creating 302 defunct station templates). Any comments? DHowell 23:46, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Navboxes are for navigation. If there is an article for a defunct station, it probably is worthy of inclusion in the navbox. Would identifying them as defunct with a strike out like so: KLOS (just an example) be a space saving way to demonstrate that it's no longer active?--Rtphokie 00:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Hmm... here are a few ways of doing it within the existing navbox template:
  • Option #1 (separate section for defunct stations):
  • Option #2 (subsection within callsign section):
  • Option #3 (defunct stations in strikeout):
  • Option #4 (separate defunct station navbox):
Does anyone have any preferences? DHowell 02:05, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I have a strong preference for option #1 for both aesthetic and organizational purposes. - Dravecky 03:31, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I also like option #1. This is what I've been using. Feel free to add them to the template, if you haven't already. Likely, whoever redesigned it forgot to add them back in.--Fightingirish 16:16, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I think leaving the defunct stations out is the better. Over time, the number of defunct stations will be larger then the number of active stations. Also, define defunct? In reality, any calls not being used any longer are defunct. However based on the guidelines, these redirect to the current call that the station has switched to. So defunct stations as listed by calls is really very misleading since it is really defunct calls not being used by another station based on links. I say avoid this all and don't include them. If this data is important, create a a historical list showing the start date for each call and when it goes out of use including when it changes name or becomes active again in the future. Vegaswikian 17:55, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Vegaswikian, and this is why I removed many of these defunct stations from the templates (not all, but some). Half of the time, the link didn't go to the right article anyway. While there is some merit to someone coming along and wondering what happened to that one station from their youth, I'm not sure if there's any way to really track it - and if there is, I doubt these templates are the solution. JPG-GR 18:32, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I say unless it is really notable (like KNAC) or has been defunct for under 5 years (like WGMS), they should stay, otherwise, they should go. - NeutralHomer T:C 18:56, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
"Defunct" is hard to qualify. There are instances where I think they are valid, like in cases when a station's history has been intertwined with several frequencies (such as WFMR and KMPX). Weaving in those station histories grew to be a real big pain in the you-know-what. Stations with long individual histories, such as KFRC (AM), WMAQ (AM) and WNBC (AM) should have their own pages, as it keeps the main articles from getting too bit. There are many that don't deserve 'defunct station' articles, such as the many short lived formats that have inhabited the 95.7 frequency in San Francisco. I removed and merged about four of those, and they were listed in the template. I think what is a valid "defunct" station is, at this time, purely subjective, but there is a place for some of them. And the most notable should be in the templates.--Fightingirish 12:07, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
To further complicate this discussion, is there a difference between silent and defunct? I'm thinking there is. Silent is a radio station that has a license and a call sign but isn't currently broadcasting. Defunct is a station that is neither broadcasting nor licensed. Only the most notable warrent a wikipedia article, though coverage in a history section of an appropriate article makes sense in both senses.--Rtphokie 14:36, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
It depends. If it is just temporarily silent, it is still an active license. By FCC rules, a station can only be silent for so long without special permission. If silent for too long, the owner must surrender the license. In the case of daytime stations, the FCC is not issuing new licenses for those. Once class D licenses are turned in, that's it. That would make it a former station. There are a few articles on those, but this does not happen too often anymore.--Fightingirish 18:20, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I would represent a silent station which is still licensed (or a notable construction permit not on the air yet) in italics in the main part of the template, with a footnote indicating that it is silent. I think something like this was done in some of the TV station templates.
As far as defunct stations, those with articles ought be relatively few, as long as we don't try to create stub articles for every callsign/frequency/format combination that ever existed. Unless we are experiencing edit wars over the issue, I believe it is best for now to leave it up to editorial discretion whether a defunct station should have its own article or be a section in a current station's article, based on loose criteria on how much reliable source material exists for the former station, how popular it was, how long it lasted, and whether it is distinctly different than the current station at the same frequency. No reason to create instruction creep to solve a problem which we aren't having. I don't agree with the "defunct for under 5 years" criterion; WGMS will be as notable in 10 years as it is now for maintaining a classical music format in a major market for over 50 years; on the other hand, certainly not every format-plus-callsign change in the last five years creates a notable defunct station. Meanwhile, when I get around to it, I am going to add defunct stations which have articles to templates per option #1. In the process I may merge some to other articles (I think there are a number of stubs for some former Spanish stations in Los Angeles which could easily be merged). DHowell 23:56, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

WUMP

Am I mistaken in my belief that current on-air schedules are not permitted (or at least very strongly discouraged) in radio station articles? My edit to WUMP was reverted by an anonymous user (after the on-air schedule had been originally added by a new user with a whopping 1 edit to their credit) and rather than trigger a revert war I thought I'd get the community to weigh in. Also, if somebody can point me to this guideline in the WPRS text, I'd be appreciative. Thanks in advance. - Dravecky 06:21, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Here's what's been shown via previous precedents: if it's a schedule with shows and times, it's not allowed. However, it would appear that a listing of programs along with hosts is permissible, with such headers as "morning show", "afternoon drive", etc. Whether or not the policy supports this isn't quite clear. JPG-GR 06:26, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Here's the disputed section. - Dravecky 06:31, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Weekday Lineup

That violates WP:NOT#DIR for sure. JPG-GR 16:53, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
JPG-GR is right on the money. Those kinds of lists are against the WP:NOT rules. - NeutralHomer T:C 17:35, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I have been making it a point to remove stuff like this whenever I see it. I don't see the point of including it in most cases. It's merely cruft, and often copied directly from the stations' own websites. I've also noticed that often, this stuff is added by radio station employees, and in some cases, such as the KUFO article, they get quite nasty if it gets removed. I've also seen ridiculous instances of virtually every station employee being listed in articles, and even schedules of off-air board ops. That's just plain absurd.--Fightingirish 18:20, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Category:Arbitron market navigational boxes

It's good to see this category populated with all of the Arbitron market templates. But, we have a small problem. The category contains 303 templates, and there are only 302 (currently) ranked Arbitron markets. So, any clue which one is out of place. I don't think I have the patience to go digging through them myself at the moment (esp. since not all of them are named exactly the same as their Arbitron markets). JPG-GR 21:11, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

I see only 302 templates in the category. - Dravecky 23:44, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Hmm... well someone must've found it. Great! JPG-GR 23:45, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Articles for Deletion: Karma Air

Resolved

Karma Air at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Karma Air (25 October 2007 – 31 October 2007) Deleted

an online radio station launched in Feb 2006 --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:40, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
updated --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:13, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Article for Deletion: 2XS FM

Resolved

2XS FM at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2XS FM (31 October 2007 – 5 November 2007) Keep

a former New Zealand radio station, now bearing a new call sign --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 02:22, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
updated --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 23:39, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Too many stations in Worcester?

There are far more radio stations with one of the Worcester Radio template tags (AM/FM/Radio) (and thus automatically listed in Category:Radio stations in Worcester) than are actually listed in the template. Should these other stations be added to the Worcester Radio template or should the template tag be removed from these unlisted station articles? I don't know enough about the Worcester market to make any kind of informed decision. - Dravecky 08:12, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

As a general rule, I use the radio-locator maps. If the station can reach the actual city dot within the first two rings, it goes in the template. Otherwise, no. But, this is a very rough rule. JPG-GR 00:45, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
The list of stations Arbitron keeps for the market seems like a good starting place (and ending place?) to me. Radio and Records is an easy place to find them: | station list for Worcester--Rtphokie 18:40, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
The Cape Cod market template referenced the wrong category. Fixed. 121a0012 01:41, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! - Dravecky 18:18, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

For the record, you should never almost never use the template to automatically apply categories to articles — people sometimes use the templates for unintended purposes (such as putting it on their userpage or a sandboxed article draft, adding it to out-of-market rimshotters or any other distant station they managed to DX once or twice, etc.), and thus you end up with wildly inappropriate pages showing up in the category listing. As a rule, the categories that an article belongs in should be applied directly to the article itself, and not to templates that are going to end up on the article. A template should never almost never include any category that isn't nested within <noinclude> </noinclude> tags. Bearcat 20:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

... with rare exceptions, like Category:United States radio navigational boxes. JPG-GR 20:19, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
That category should be inside the noinclude tags; we don't want the stations themselves to start appearing in the category listing. Bearcat 22:02, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
...and since I manually added the Category:Radio stations on Cape Cod cat to each of the listed articles for sorting purposes, it could be safely removed from the template with no adverse effect on the tagged radio stations. - Dravecky 21:59, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Arbitron database is not authoritative for genre and web site URLs

I'm starting to bump into a lot of of these new 2 sentence stub pages, which are clearly based on the Arbitron database. Setting aside the possible copyright implications, even a cursory look at the data will tell someone in the business that the information in that database is not at all accurate - especially for radio stations that are not subscribers to Arbitron. At best, Arbitron asks their subscribers to update their profile once a year. I just flagged an entry for WFPW which says it is News/Talk format and points to TimesClassicsOnline.com web site, which is long ago obsolete. The article was created yesterday, so the station URL clearly was not tested.StreamingRadioGuide 19:08, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you be bold and fix it? JPG-GR 19:17, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
JPG-GR is right, if you see something that's incorrect, regardless of where the information originally came from, fix it. Many of these links look correct but you may know better. Radio stations are notorious for launching a new image and forgetting to clean up after their old image, and it's not always possible to detect this when you are working from information about the old image.--Rtphokie 22:04, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Sometimes a ABC Radio website is better than none :) But, JPG and Rtphokie are right, if you see something, by all means, fix it. If it is a page we have made, let us know so we can fix it in the future (and on other pages). - NeutralHomer T:C 23:45, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Radio Message Boards

I have run into various radio station articles/stubs in which a post on a radio message board, such as radio-info.com, is cited as the source. When I have checked the message board post, I have not found a cited source. Since most poster are anonymous, there is no basis for judging the accuracy of any information taken from these radio message boards. Message boards should not be used as a credible or authoritative source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.175.28.233 (talk) 23:35, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletion: WMAP (AM)

Resolved

WMAP (AM) (via WP:PROD on 4 November 2007) Redirected→WXNC

--User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 19:22, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
updated --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 23:38, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
According to the FCC database, the WMAP call-sign has been out of use since 1997. WKRE became WBTB in November of 2004 and WXNC in December of the same year where is currently remains. WXNC has a page of it's own, so I redirected the WMAP page there. - NeutralHomer T:C 19:37, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Advertising cruft in articles

I'm in a bit of a dispute with an editor (no login, just an IP). He keeps reverting and adding this stuff to the WMYX-FM article:

Since January 2006, the marquee programming feature on WMYX has been the "No-Repeat 9 to 5 Workday," in which the station does not repeat any songs during the hours of 9:00a.m. and 5:00p.m. Since March 2007, the feature has been hosted by midday talent Heather Moore. WMYX began carrying Premiere Radio Networks' "Delilah" syndicated radio program on Monday, June 27, 2006

WMYX maintains the longest running cash contest in Milwaukee radio with the "Phrase That Pays," a promotion designed to keep the radio station top-of-mind with residents inside the 414 and 262 area codes, who are rewarded with $1,000 when they are called by the station, asked for the phrase, and respond with, "The Mix Means Variety."


The bold stuff is what he keeps adding back in. It is stuff that should not be in any radio article, since it looks really stupid and there are probably hundreds of radio stations that could boast these same claims. It's purely advertising. The non-bold is what I left in. The fact that they air Delilah is notable.

The conversation with this person can be found on my talk page

The other editor feels that the radio articles need to have more stuff added to it. But quantity does not necessarily equal quality. What's the consensus here? I will refrain from engaging this person in an edit war until we can sort this out. Plus, I don't believe in battling anonymous IPs, unless they're blatant vandals. Thanks.--Fightingirish 07:44, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

What the anonymous user wants is clearly over the line, unencyclopedic, and outside that the project has intended for these articles. No programming lineups, thankyouverymuch. That said, if a radio station had a genuinely unique or innovative promotional effort then it would be notable. (Another lame "Phrase that pays" contest is neither unique nor innovative--unless they could document that they were the first station in the US to introduce it.)
Also, as I've whacked similar cruft from other articles I've tried to leave in mentions of local efforts that are even very tenuously notable. For example, I'd condense their text to "Notable local programming includes a "No-Repeat 9-to-5 Workday" each weekday. Since Monday, June 27, 2006, syndicated programming on WMYX has included Premiere Radio Networks' "Delilah" syndicated radio program." Just a suggestion for compromise (although I suspect the IP user won't be much happier. - Dravecky 22:31, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Will the real KPAC please stand up?

The FCC database says that KPAC (FM) is licensed to San Antonio, TX, thus the KPAC (FM) page. However there is already a KPAC page which refers to a station in Stockton, CA on 89.7 FM [5]

Is the Stockton station using KPAC as a vanity type callsign that they actually do not own or did once have the KPAC callsign and lost it for whatever reason? I've search the FCC database by a 100km radius from Stockton and dont see anything on 89.7 which resembles the supposed KPAC. Is this an unlicensed transmitter? What are the FCC rules there?

Anyone from that area have any ideas? I suppose I could call the station and ask for their facility id but some history might be useful here.--Rtphokie 12:58, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

There is no radio station or translator licensed to Stockton on that frequency. KPAC should be moved elsewhere, and KPAC set up as a dabpage. JPG-GR 18:11, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Weird, the University of the Pacific already has KUOP at 91.3 MHz. See http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?call=KUOP for all the details. - Dravecky 21:48, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I went ahead and renamed the offending page and turned KPAC into a disambiguation page. I've tried unsuccessfully several times today to get someone from the station or the communications department on the phone. If they are broadcasting on 89.7, even if it's a low power station they should have a facility id and thus a record in the FCC database right?--Rtphokie 22:09, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
According to the U of Pacific website it's 89.7 but the wikipedia article has 87.9...either way 89.7 isn't a licensed station to the U of Pacific in Stockton, CA (the K-Love group own a few applications around the area though. I would guess regardless of frequency, this is a low power unlicensed operation, most likely a carrier current station.

FYI

I've requested a revert on the renames of Air 1 to Air 1 Radio Network and K-LOVE to K-LOVE Radio Network here, if anyone would like to voice their opinions either way. Both changes were made with no discussion/consensusJPG-GR 07:33, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I like it. Makes far more sense with "Network" in the title, especially to users who click on a callsign and get redirected to Air 1 or K-LOVE. --Rtphokie 21:26, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I think this is a good idea, less confusion on the part of the reader. - NeutralHomer T:C 22:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Having "network" in the name makes the article intent clearer and allows for easier disambiguation, especially for K-LOVE. - Dravecky 22:57, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

(de-indent) I'm sorry to say, but I think you've all missed the point. The current locations are no different than Microsoft Software Company or McDonalds Fast Food Restaurant - they are not the name of the operation in question. If there is reason to disambiguate these this far (which I argue there is not), they should be Air 1 (radio network) and K-LOVE (radio network). JPG-GR 01:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm confused, why did you suggest Air 1 Radio Network and now suggest Air 1 (radio network)? Are you updating your original suggestion or contradicting yourself? The later is probably more appropriate but the point remains the same. Air 1 imparts far less information and is more prone to confusion than Air 1 (radio network)--Rtphokie 01:21, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm saying that Air 1 Radio Network is incorrect as it is not the name of the company. I'm saying that Air 1 (radio network) is unnecessary as there is no disambiguation needed. The proper location for the article is Air 1. JPG-GR 01:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Their own website says differently. Every page carries the following copyright notice: "© 2007 Air 1 Radio Network" so it's neither unreasonable nor incorrect to place the article at Air 1 Radio Network. - Dravecky 04:11, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Hmm... you appear to be correct. But the K-LOVE request is still valid. JPG-GR 04:42, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Actually, if you want to split hairs, the name of the programming is "Air 1" (or possibly "Air 1 Radio" - don't have an affiliate in my area). The name of the company that owns them is "Air 1 Radio Network." But, that's if you want to split hairs. JPG-GR 05:00, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Let's run with the company name, as is the case for most Wikipedia articles. The K-LOVE website has all sorts of names for the network including "K-LOVE Radio" and "The Positive & Encouraging K-LOVE Network" but nothing is more consistently used than "K-LOVE" without embellishment so, yeah, a move to K-LOVE (radio network) would be in order as long as the current K-LOVE disambiguation page is left intact. - Dravecky 05:06, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
That's the case for most Wikipedia articles... on companies. I still argue that the disambiguation is grossly unnecessary. JPG-GR 05:13, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the company that owns these two formats is "Educational Media Foundation" (or perhaps it's "EMF Broadcasting" now, the need to deceive having passed). "Air 1 Radio Network" and suchlike are merely dbas. 121a0012 17:04, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

List of radio stations in STATE

It took a little longer than hoped, but all 50 states have now had their lists updated to the more consistent sortable style. There's still a lot of work to be done with blanks being filled in (owners and formats) as well as hunting down articles that are named correctly. Happy editing. JPG-GR 02:22, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I am working on the owner/formats part...ALOT slower than I want (much offline stuff taking up my time). - NeutralHomer T:C 02:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Geographic categories naming conventions.

How do we determine whether or not a state should be included? For instance, Category:Radio stations in Los Angeles is quite obviously a subcategory of Category:Radio stations in California. However, Category:Radio stations in Iron Range may not be as clearly a subcategory of Category:Radio stations in Minnesota.

So, here's the question - where's the thin line that decides if these subcategories should contain the state or not. In my neck of the woods, Category:Radio stations in Detroit is obviously enough, but is Category:Radio stations in Lansing, Michigan too much? (Lansing redirects to Lansing, Michigan first and foremost, but there are many other Lansing's listed at Lansing (disambiguation).)

Not trying to change anything drastically here - just trying to get a feel for how the community draws the line. JPG-GR (talk) 04:36, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

guy screwing up callsign meanings

This IP, 24.87.61.232, needs to be blocked. Mainly bad edits have came from this person. I propose blocking that IP address. 72.161.149.29 (talk) 18:56, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I checked the contributions for IP 24.87.61.232 and it turns out that a dozen or so radio and television articles had indeed been vandalized by that user. I have fixed the vandalism, mostly the addition of "W=Western" or a variant to callsign meaning entries, and note that the issue raised by 72.161.149.29 was a legitmate one. - Dravecky (talk) 21:20, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Notability Standard for Radio and TV Stations

After being struck down in his attempt to have the articles on radio stations WRNY and WRRC deleted, Mr.Z-man has made an attempt at changing the notability standard for Radio and TV stations. This is a REALLY bad idea. This puts not only the work of this WikiProject, but the work of WP:TVS, and potentially Wikipedia itself at risk. We need to let Mr.Z-man know that changing the notability standard for Radio and TV stations is a bad idea...REALLY bad idea. - NeutralHomer T:C 23:38, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

...and obviously he isn't done. - NeutralHomer T:C 23:52, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
This guy has absolutely no shame. I busted him for not following procedure in WP:N, specifically the paragraph dealing with non-compliant articles, so now he's challenging that paragraph. Incredible! dhett (talk • contribs) 21:02, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
I have a feeling that we're dealing with an editor with a "holier than thou" attitude, who only cares what he thinks. And what I mean by "he", I mean "Z-man", not the "man upstairs". -- azumanga (talk) 21:23, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Update - he has withdrawn the challenge of the guideline after being called out on a bad faith move. dhett (talk • contribs) 23:00, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Mea culpa. I retract and apologize for my "no shame" comment above; it was inappropriate. I should not be ascribing emotions to people I do not know. dhett (talk • contribs) 01:25, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposed notability guideline for media outlets??

You guys have to see this..... Wikipedia:Notability (media).

I was one of the people on WP:WPP arguing for inherent notability of licensed radio stations as part of infrastructure. Well, this proposed guideline isn't all bad, but it is somewhat at odds with the usual practice for radio and TV stations here.

So, do we AFD this proposed guideline, or should we make our own contributions to it based on our exisitng consensus?

I would recommend that:

  • Radio and TV stations other than translators are inherently notable. This includes low-power stations.
  • Translators get a redirect.
  • Public access cable stations are not inherently notable unless they serve a major city or a large regional area. i.e. a statewide public access channel, or a channel for all of New York City would be notable. A "governmental access" feed that runs a text generator of community events plus city council meetings for a population of 50,000 is not inherently notable, unless for some reason it meets WP:CORP.
  • Radio stations operated under Part 15 rules ( no license required ), such as some carrier-current AM systems on college campuses, are not inherently notable either.
  • Cable stations that serve a national or regional area are inherently notable.
  • Shortwave broadcasters and free-to-air satellite channels I'm on the fence about.

What do you all think? Squidfryerchef (talk) 03:23, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, 100%, pretty much sums everything up for me Mr mark taylor (talk) 03:28, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I'd also like to point out the proposed guidelines would exclude FCC records as well as Arbitron ratings and DX-oriented media to establish notability: ..."secondary sources" ... include reliable published works ... except for ... works ... such as ... short listings in a national database. That has to go. Squidfryerchef (talk) 03:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm confused, if radio and TV stations other than translators are inherently notable, why would FCC records and Arbitron ratings ever be brought into a notability argument, there wouldn't be an argument per this guideline. Also, It should be made clear that this applies to broadcast stations only. In addition to the Part 15 rules, "radio stations" which are really just audio broadcast over crawl channels on local (or campus) cable systems aren't inherently notable, nor are internet radio stations.--Rtphokie (talk) 04:16, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
To most people who work on this project, licensed radio stations are inherently notable. But on the proposed guideline, they are just another media outlet like a comic book or a webcast. Squidfryerchef (talk) 04:25, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
In my opinion, if the new guidelines pass, I think we should start a new Wiki for radio, TV and media (both stations and programming), as mentioned before. And if the powers that be decides to delete the non-notable articles en masse, they should at least give us time to transfer them to the new Wiki, otherwise, all or work would be for nought. It seems that the new standard would be to bend over backwards to demonstrate that it's very notable, not just relying on sources. -- azumanga (talk) 16:56, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I proposed that idea on a couple different pages and think if you, Dhett, and the other come together on the idea, we can build pages without the worry of them being deleted. We can make the site independent but with MediaWiki software (so we don't have to learn anything new :) ) and even add in pages about cable networks, satellite networks, newspapers and other media related stuff. - NeutralHomer T:C 18:33, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't think we have to give up the ghost just yet. I just added a big section about broadcast and cable stations, including an explanation of what "translators" and "subcarriers" are, to the proposed guideline, and so far no edit warring. It may be that all we need to preserve our articles is to explain that even though we say "inherent notability" in deletion reviews, we don't really endorse a separate article for every callsign. Also we need to reassure them that we don't endorse having an article about every public access feed or satellite music channel. Squidfryerchef (talk) 04:20, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Squid, that is one fantastic job you did on the broadcast stations paragraph!! I'm talking Pulitzer Prize material here! (OK, I'm exaggerating. ;-) ) It is comprehensive, touching all forms of broadcast media, and spelling out under what circumstances a station may or may not be considered notable, and, most importantly, why. For all the initial problems we had with Mr.Z-man, he has really come to the table with this proposed policy, and your additions greatly ease the initial reservations I had about the proposed policy. Good work! Folks, if you haven't seen the Broadcast section, I strongly recommend reading it!
I would like to clean up some loose ends, particularly when it comes to the definition of a translator radio station, and satellite-delivered programming, and seek comment from this WikiProject. I'm familiar with the TV rules; not so much with radio. Is it true that radio translator stations are all on the FM dial? And if so, do you define an FM translator station as any station with a callsign in the pattern X999XX, or is it only those repeating the signal of an over-the-air broadcaster. Can an FM translator have all-letter calls? What about LPFM stations? What about stations such as the Calvary Chapel, Advance Ministries, K-Love, Air 1, or NPR stations? Are they generally considered translators? They don't generally repeat the signal of an over-the-air station, but are satellite-fed. In smaller areas, should each radio station (AM or FM non-translator) have its own article, or should there be one "Radio stations of (place name)" article, with short stubs for each radio station in that small market and redirects at each individual station's callsign? Also, how do radio translators ID? dhett (talk • contribs) 02:46, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Strictly U.S. speaking - (at this time) all radio translators are on the FM dial. They ALWAYS have a callsign of the form X###XX. Any station with a "true" XXXX callsign is a full-power non-translator station. As for LP stations? I'd argue they're notable only in an extreme case, but that's just me. As for repeaters of K-Love, etc. - they may be notable if they have a history otherwise - instead a redirect is best. JPG-GR (talk) 07:42, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I think there is something that noncommercial FM translators are allowed to be satellite fed (U.S. again), so IMO they should still redirect to a page about the originating station. As far as low-power FM stations, they are pretty rare. The FCC stopped licensing class D stations in 1978. There were a few "LPFM" licenses issued in the early 2000s, but there weren't many places on the dial to put them. However, we might need a different guideline when we get around to doing other countries; Italy I think has a lot of low-power stations. Squidfryerchef (talk) 20:13, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
All translators should re-direct to their origonating station because Fm translators cannot origonate their own programming, just mention the translators and their area covered in the main article Mr mark taylor (talk) 22:17, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
There are a substantial number of LPFMs (in the hundreds at least). Some of them will be notable, but most of them will not be. A general guideline: if the organization that operates an LPFM is not notable, the LPFM itself probably isn't. An unusual case is a large number of LPFMs licensed in certain places (like Montana and Vermont) for emergency-management or travelers' information purposes; these should be treated in the same manner as LPAM TIS/HAR stations (i.e., presumed not notable). Many LPFMs are licensed to local churches or other religious organizations and carry the programming of one of the national religious broadcasters; these are generally not notable but might be worth a redirect to the service they carry. Translators should be presumed NN; there are a very few translators which are notable as a result of controversy and third-party media coverage (the only two I can think of are W276AQ and K200AA). I don't think broadcast auxiliary stations would ordinarily ever be notable, with the possible exception of the one involved in the Allan Weiner piracy case. 121a0012 (talk) 07:25, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Just as a matter of general principle, the guidelines need to be different for every country. For example, in Canada, most rebroadcasters will be NN, but some ostensible rebroadcasters are actually licensed to originate a few hours of content per week and might be notable (although usually not independently of the parent station). In a few cases, rebroadcasters are (or were) fully independent stations with distinct histories that ought to be presented separately from their current parent station. In the UK, many temporary low-power FM stations operate under the Restricted Service Licence scheme; again, these would be presumed NN but some of these stations are associated with fairly regular events and might cross the threshold of notability if other criteria are satisfied. Licenced national and regional stations in the UK, RSLs excluded, should be presumed notable for the same reasons as comparable stations in the U.S. and Canada. 121a0012 (talk) 07:25, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

One last point on notability

At the time of this writing, it's looking like we're going to get a sensible guideline on media notability that takes into account the shortcomings of WP:CORP (a.k.a. WP:ORG) and provides some sort of inherent notability for radio and television stations that originate programming.

However, there is one problem that both radio and television have that was evident in WRRC (FM): some articles do a very poor job of asserting notability, (as defined in WP:CSD, not WP:N), and regardless of the new policy, articles that do not assert notability are still candidates for speedy deletion. The one-sentence opening doesn't even begin to tell me why the station is notable. A brief statement of its 45-year history, or its potential audience would greatly help others to see why it is notable.

I encourage anyone adding an article to ensure that it asserts its own notability, and if you find an article lacking in that, please consider either adding it, or let members of this WikiProject know. It's our best defense against article deletion. dhett (talk • contribs) 03:52, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

WRNY and WRRC up for deletion

WRNY and WRRC are once again up for deletion. The reason: Non-notable radio station. Sources provided only prove existence, the rest of the article fails WP:V. If these stations are allowed to be deleted, it would open a "can of worms" and put each and every radio station article in jeopardy of deletion, even the big stations. This would make all the work done by this project completely irrelavant. Please vote against the deletions. - NeutralHomer T:C 05:59, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed -- in addition, it may also trickle down to television stations as well, practically anything that has a call sign, or even has the words "television" or "radio". I expect strong keeps from everyone for both stations. -- azumanga (talk) 06:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
As do I, but I wanted to make sure everyone knew. Take Care...NeutralHomer T:C 07:18, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

If anyone doubts this could have implications, I have had two articles I created placed up for proposed deletion before for the same reasons given in the WRNY and WRRC nominations. In my case one is a national digital jazz radio station and the other is a semi-national jazz digital radio station formed from a FM national radio station! Indeed, a local (now defunct) variant of that station - which also broadcast across Europe via Satellite (Astra 2x satellites) was merged with another station article (before I reverted it, citing WikiProject Radio Station guidelines) on the fact that even though this multi-national stations is licenced, are not notable with their own article. Regardless of sources from third party sources and inclusion on national, even pan-European television and radio platforms, the articles were still proposed for deletion, even though they were all licensed by Ofcom (the UK's communications regulator who licence broadcasters, like the FCC does in the US).

Believe me, if these nominations succeed, it will be catastrophic for even national (international too? - could happen) stations. I have nominated Strong Keep for these reasons (abridged for the nomination). May I suggest asking for FCC/Ofcom/etc licensed stations could be added to the Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) guideline? --tgheretford (talk) 14:10, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps a minimum guideline is substantial independent programming. Don't start a sliding scope argument. Surely there are better sources for most stations of real importance. DGG (talk) 19:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Both were overwhelming Keeps, only one person voted for deletion. I say we did good :) - NeutralHomer T:C 22:01, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

(de-indent) For months, the non-policy of "any radio station licensed by the FCC is inherently notable" has been quoted ad nauseum. Suffice to say, it doesn't exist. If an article cannot assert the notability of the subject, then it's doomed from the start if it is never improved on. At this point, I'd worry more about trying to figure out why these stations are notable, adding it to the articles, sourcing it, and then doing the same elsewhere. This is why creating thousands of stub articles is a sheer waste of time. JPG-GR (talk) 00:28, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I would like to see several of the articles in the WP:WPRS "world" improved on, but sometimes the information just isn't known. What is there, is what is known...or if it is a new radio or TV station, that's all there is. Not every station has a long history like WABC or WTOP...some are just small. I don't think we are in a place to have one admin say what is and what isn't important. Especially, a self-proclaimed "rogue" admin. I still stand by the "if it has a FCC licensed, it is notable" standpoint. - NeutralHomer T:C 00:42, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
We need to clear this question of notability up once and for all. I also support the "if it's licensed, it's notable" approach. It has many side benefits especially when it comes to the potentially thorny area of low-power stations and stations run out of church basements, both of which could lead to lots of hurt feelings. The presence of articles on every licensed station, anywhere in the world, is going to encourage better information to be collected and presented about these stations. Radio is notoriously bad about forgetting it's past, especially it's recent past. Wikipedia may be the best place to help fix that.--Rtphokie (talk) 01:17, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Sounds like some people need to read WP:CANVASS. -- Ned Scott (talk) 08:56, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, WP:CANVASS is quite entertaining to read. I dont think there are many who are so easily influenced so we need not worry about canvassing. I appreciate it when others bring issues to my attention that I may have an interest in.--Rtphokie (talk) 04:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

The deletion reviews for these two stations have been resolved as relist. However, the closing admin will not relist the articles for deletion. You might want to keep an eye out for deletion relists. dhett (talk • contribs) 19:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I expect Mr.Z-man to relist them right quick. - NeutralHomer T:C 11:36, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Class D, LPFM, notability, and DJ on duty

What if we include Class D stations that have been in operation for X number of years under notability guidelines? That would automatically include the type of station that's been grandfathered in since 1978, while it would exclude newer LPFM stations without an established broadcast history. Another point: I'm not too familiar with the newer LPFM stations. Do they (other than translators which we're pretty unanimous on not covering) need to be on air for a certain number of hours per week and have a DJ on duty? Because that in itself is a pretty high bar. Squidfryerchef (talk) 04:23, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

I think they have to be on the air 36 hours a week (6 hours a day times 7 days in a week), but most LPFM's I know aren't rebroadcasters of religious networks (that's what translators are used for, I can think of a bunch of religious FM stations that have multiple translators, i.e. W201AB, W256ZY, etc.), most LPFM's I've heard are local community groups wanting to be of the "alternative media" type, carrying Democracy Now and whatnot. As for Class D stations, most are so low powered (10 watts or so) and a majority are licensed to colleges that never upgraded to higher powered stations, a redirect to the college would do. Mr mark taylor (talk) 21:21, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
You might be surprised. A substantial number (not a majority, I don't think, but more than a few -- I really don't have time to do a manual count at this point) of LPFMs are licensed to churches. They may provide some amount of local service, but frequently run a national religious network. As for the class-Ds, many of them belong to high schools rather than colleges, and it's tough to see how most of them would meet notability except as examples of this limited class. (There are, all told, exactly 105 of them -- see the next section. LPFMs are not considered to be "FM stations" proper but are an entirely distinct service class, and thus the class-A/B/C/D system does not apply to them.) 121a0012 (talk) 04:54, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

List of all class-D stations

Here is a complate list of class-D primary stations in the U.S. (Note that secondary stations -- translators and boosters -- are also considered to be class-D stations, but LPFMs are not.) 121a0012 (talk) 04:54, 30 November 2007 (UTC) 

  Call   |       Community        |                            Licensee                             
---------+------------------------+-----------------------------------------------------------------
 KHKY    | AKIACHAK, AK           | YUPIIT SCHOOL DISTRICT
 KAUG    | ANCHORAGE, AK          | ANCHORAGE SCHOOL DISTRICT
 KSWH-FM | ARKADELPHIA, AR        | HENDERSON STATE UNIVERSITY
 KHDX    | CONWAY, AR             | HENDRIX COLLEGE
 KBPK    | BUENA PARK, CA         | BUENA PARK SCHOOL DISTRICT
 KECG    | EL CERRITO, CA         | EL CERRITO HIGH SCHOOL
 KCRH    | HAYWARD, CA            | SOUTH COUNTY COMMUNITY COLLEGE DISTRICT
 KSFH    | MOUNTAIN VIEW, CA      | ST. FRANCIS HIGH SCHOOL OF MOUNTAIN VIEW, CALIF., INC.
 KRVH    | RIO VISTA, CA          | RIVER DELTA UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT
 KSRH    | SAN RAFAEL, CA         | SAN RAFAEL HIGH SCHOOL
 KSCU    | SANTA CLARA, CA        | SANTA CLARA UNIVERSITY
 KSAK    | WALNUT, CA             | MOUNT SAN ANTONIO COMMUNITY COLLEGE DISTRICT
 WERB    | BERLIN, CT             | BERLIN BOARD OF EDUCATION
 WFAR    | DANBURY, CT            | DANBURY COMMUNITY RADIO, INC.
 WQAQ    | HAMDEN, CT             | QUINNIPIAC COLLEGE
 WFCS    | NEW BRITAIN, CT        | CENTRAL CONNECTICUT STATE UNVERSITY
 WSLX    | NEW CANAAN, CT         | ST. LUKE'S FOUNDATION, INC.
 WDJW    | SOMERS, CT             | WDJW-SOMERS HIGH SCHOOL
 WWEB    | WALLINGFORD, CT        | CHOATE ROSEMARY HALL FOUNDATION
 WGUR    | MILLEDGEVILLE, GA      | GEORGIA COLLEGE AND STATE UNIVERSITY, FOR AND ON BEHALF OF THE 
 WPLH    | TIFTON, GA             | ABRAHAM BALDWIN AGRICULTURAL COLLEGE
 KCUI    | PELLA, IA              | CENTRAL UNIVERSITY OF IOWA
 KMSC    | SIOUX CITY, IA         | MORNINGSIDE COLLEGE
 KWAR    | WAVERLY, IA            | WARTBURG COLLEGE
 WIIT    | CHICAGO, IL            | ILLINOIS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
 WRTE    | CHICAGO, IL            | CHICAGO BOYS CLUBS EDUCATIONAL CORPORATION
 WSSD    | CHICAGO, IL            | LAKESIDE TELECOMMUNICATIONS, INC.
 WMTH    | PARK RIDGE, IL         | BOARD OF EDUCATION, MAINE TOWNSHIP HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT #207
 WPUM    | RENSSELAER, IN         | ST. JOSEPH'S COLLEGE
 WVUR-FM | VALPARAISO, IN         | THE LUTHERAN UNIVERSITY ASSOC., INC
 KSWC    | WINFIELD, KS           | THE SOUTHWESTERN COLLEGE
 WHAB    | ACTON, MA              | ACTON-BOXBOROUGH REGIONAL SCH. DIST.
 WRBB    | BOSTON, MA             | NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY
 WXRB    | DUDLEY, MA             | WXRB-FM EDUCATIONAL BROADCASTING, INC.
 WHHB    | HOLLISTON, MA          | HOLLISTON HIGH SCHOOL
 WCCH    | HOLYOKE, MA            | HOLYOKE COMMUNITY COLLEGE
 WAVM    | MAYNARD, MA            | MAYNARD PUBLIC SCHOOLS COMM.
 WNEK-FM | SPRINGFIELD, MA        | WESTERN NEW ENGLAND COLLEGE
 WYAJ    | SUDBURY, MA            | LINCOLN-SUDBURY BROADCASTING FOUNDATION, INCORPORATED
 WBRS    | WALTHAM, MA            | BRANDEIS UNIVERSITY
 WZLY    | WELLESLEY, MA          | WELLESLEY COLLEGE
 WMUC-FM | COLLEGE PARK, MD       | UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND
 WSHD    | EASTPORT, ME           | SHEAD MEMORIAL HIGH SCHOOL
 WUMF-FM | FARMINGTON, ME         | UNIVERSITY OF MAINE
 WUPI    | PRESQUE ISLE, ME       | UNIVERSITY OF MAINE
 WVAC-FM | ADRIAN, MI             | ADRIAN COLLEGE
 WHPR-FM | HIGHLAND PARK, MI      | R.J.'S LATE NIGHT ENTERTAINMENT CORPORATION
 WYDM    | MONROE, MI             | MONROE PUBLIC SCHOOLS
 WOAS    | ONTONAGON, MI          | ONTONAGON AREA SCHOOL DISTRICT
 WBLD    | ORCHARD LAKE, MI       | WEST BLOOMFIELD SCHOOL DISTRICT
 KDXL    | ST. LOUIS PARK, MN     | INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT #283 OF ST. LOUIS PARK.
 KUOM-FM | ST. LOUIS PARK, MN     | REGENTS OF THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA
 WMCN    | ST. PAUL, MN           | MACALESTER COLLEGE
 KSMR    | WINONA, MN             | SAINT MARY'S COLLEGE
 KWUR    | CLAYTON, MO            | THE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY
 KRHS    | OVERLAND, MO           | RITENOUR CONSOLIDATED SCHOOL DIST.
 KGSP    | PARKVILLE, MO          | BOARD OF TRUSTEES, PARK UNIVERSITY
 WUAG    | GREENSBORO, NC         | UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT GREENSBORO
 WOGR-FM | SALISBURY, NC          | VICTORY CHRISTIAN CENTER, INC.
 KDCV-FM | BLAIR, NE              | DANA COLLEGE
 WDDM    | HAZLET, NJ             | WVRM, INC.
 WRRC    | LAWRENCEVILLE, NJ      | BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF RIDER COLLEGE
 WMNJ    | MADISON, NJ            | DREW UNIVERSITY
 WWPH    | PRINCETON JUNCTION, NJ | WEST WINDSOR-PLAINSBORO REGIONAL SCHOOL DISTRICT
 WKNJ-FM | UNION TOWNSHIP, NJ     | KEAN UNIVERSITY
 WMSC    | UPPER MONTCLAIR, NJ    | MONTCLAIR STATE UNIVERSITY
 WKRB    | BROOKLYN, NY           | KINGSBOROUGH COMMUNITY COLLEGE
 WCEB    | CORNING, NY            | CORNING COMMUNITY COLLEGE
 WECW    | ELMIRA, NY             | ELMIRA COLLEGE
 WGFR    | GLENS FALLS, NY        | BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF ADIRONDACK COMMUNITY COLLEGE
 WHCR-FM | NEW YORK, NY           | CITY COLLEGE OF NEW YORK
 WNYK    | NYACK, NY              | NYACK COLLEGE
 WOSS    | OSSINING, NY           | UNION FREE SCHOOL DISTRICT # 1
 WPSA    | PAUL SMITHS, NY        | PAUL SMITH'S COLLEGE OF ARTS AND SCIENCES
 WQKE    | PLATTSBURGH, NY        | STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK
 WIRQ    | ROCHESTER, NY          | WEST IRONDEQUOIT CENTRAL SCHOOL DISTRICT
 WSIA    | STATEN ISLAND, NY      | THE COLLEGE OF STATEN ISLAND
 WARY    | VALHALLA, NY           | WESTCHESTER COMMUNITY COLLEGE
 WCWT-FM | CENTERVILLE, OH        | CENTERVILLE CITY BOARD OF EDUCATION
 WUDR    | DAYTON, OH             | UNIVERSITY OF DAYTON
 WSLN    | DELAWARE, OH           | OHIO WESLEYAN UNIVERSITY
 WWSU    | FAIRBORN, OH           | WRIGHT STATE UNIVERSITY
 WKET    | KETTERING, OH          | KETTERING CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT
 WCMO    | MARIETTA, OH           | MARIETTA COLLEGE
 WOBN    | WESTERVILLE, OH        | OTTERBEIN COLLEGE
 KEPO    | EAGLE POINT, OR        | EAGLE POINT HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT 9
 KRRC    | PORTLAND, OR           | THE REED INSTITUTE
 WDNR    | CHESTER, PA            | WIDENER COLLEGE
 WJRH    | EASTON, PA             | LAFAYETTE COLLEGE
 WRSD    | FOLSOM, PA             | RIDLEY SCHOOL DISTRICT
 WZZE    | GLEN MILLS, PA         | GLEN MILLS SCHOOLS
 WHHS    | HAVERTOWN, PA          | SCHOOL DISTRICT OF HAVERFORD TWSP.
 WKVR-FM | HUNTINGDON, PA         | JUNIATA COLLEGE
 WWLU    | LINCOLN UNIVERSITY, PA | LINCOLN UNIVERSITY
 WPEB    | PHILADELPHIA, PA       | SCRIBE VIDEO CENTER, INC.
 WPTS-FM | PITTSBURGH, PA         | UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH OF THE COMMONWEALTH SYSTEM OF HIGHER E
 WCYJ-FM | WAYNESBURG, PA         | THE WAYNESBURG COLLEGE
 WVYC    | YORK, PA               | YORK COLLEGE OF PENNSYLVANIA
 WUTZ    | SUMMERTOWN, TN         | RADIO FREE BROADCASTING COMPANY
 WWHS-FM | HAMPDEN-SYDNEY, VA     | PRESIDENT & TRUSTEES OF HAMPDEN-SYDNEY COLLEGE
 KASB    | BELLEVUE, WA           | BELLEVUE SCHOOL DISTRICT #405
 KMIH    | MERCER ISLAND, WA      | MERCER ISLAND SCHOOL DIST. NO. 400 MERCER ISLAND HIGH SCHOOL
 KWRS    | SPOKANE, WA            | WHITWORTH COLLEGE
 WCCX    | WAUKESHA, WI           | TRUSTEES, CARROLL COLLEGE
 WVWC    | BUCKHANNON, WV         | WEST VIRGINIA WESLEYAN COLLEGE

This list was generated from the public CDBS database dump using the following SQL query:

SELECT f.fac_callsign AS "Call", f.comm_city || ', ' || f.comm_state AS "Community", COALESCE(p.party_legal_name, p.party_name, p.party_company) AS "Licensee" FROM fm_eng_data e JOIN facility f USING (facility_id) JOIN fac_party fp USING (facility_id) JOIN party p USING (party_id) WHERE e.eng_record_type = 'C' AND e.fm_dom_status = 'LIC' AND e.station_class = 'D' AND f.fac_service = 'FM' AND fp.party_type = 'LICEN' ORDER BY f.comm_state, f.comm_city, f.fac_callsign

WP:DIR notwithstanding, I think this particular group of stations, because of its status and history, may well be sufficiently notable to motivate a List of class-D FM radio stations article. I'm willing to do the work if people think it can be defended from the deletionistas. 121a0012 (talk) 05:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

List of all U.S. LPFM stations

It's trivial to do the same thing for LPFMs if there's interest. (There are at present exactly 824 licensed LPFMs.) Oh, hell, here's the complete list:

(No, I'm not suggesting that these stations are sufficiently notable to have a "List of" article of their own. But here is the list anway, just so people in this discussion can get an idea of the general sorts of LPFMs there are. 121a0012 (talk) 05:21, 30 November 2007 (UTC))
It'd probably be a violation of WP:DIR, but I wouldn't object to seeing List of Low-Power FM radio stations in the United States with this info (assuming you can pull frequencies for the list), if for no other reason than because if any of these are articles, they're probably doomed soon. JPG-GR (talk) 05:30, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Thing is, there are a hell of a lot more of them, and they change much more frequently than the class-Ds do (since there aren't any new class-Ds and most of the existing ones belong to organizations with little incentive to sell them off). I don't see it as being worth the effort. I could, on the other hand, relatively easily put this on my Web site (where I already have access to the nightly database updates -- this list comes out of the same database server), but it would still be a rather low priority for me. There is probably a way to get the same information by filling in the right form fields on the CDBS station query form. 121a0012 (talk) 05:43, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
   Call   |        Community         |                           Licensee                           
----------+--------------------------+--------------------------------------------------------------
 KDHS-LP  | DELTA JUNCTION, AK       | DELTA/GREELY SCHOOL DISTRICT
 KEAA-LP  | EAGLE, AK                | EAGLE COMMUNITY SCHOOL
 KXES-LP  | GALENA, AK               | YUKON WIRELESS, INC.
 KBJZ-LP  | JUNEAU, AK               | GASTINEAU BROADCASTING CORPORATION
 KVIM-LP  | JUNEAU, AK               | CALVARY FELLOWSHIP, INC.
 KAQU-LP  | SITKA, AK                | CITY & BOROUGH OF SITKA
 KAMP-LP  | ST. MICHAEL, AK          | ANTHONY A. ANDREWS SCHOOL
 KWRG-LP  | WRANGELL, AK             | WRANGELL ADVENTIST BROADCASTING CORP.
 WESZ-LP  | ABBEVILLE, AL            | ABBEVILLE BROADCASTING, INC.
 WQXD-LP  | ATHENS, AL               | EMMANUEL FULL GOSPEL MINISTRIES
 WACM-LP  | AUBURN, AL               | AUBURN CHINESE MINISTRY ASSOCIATION
 WAUF-LP  | AUBURN, AL               | AUBURN CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP
 WWFC-LP  | BRYANT, AL               | FLORAL CREST BROADCASTING
 WJWC-LP  | GALLION, AL              | GALLION URBAN  BROADCAST ASSOCIATION
 WFBH-LP  | HAMILTON, AL             | FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH HAMILTON
 WJSD-LP  | HENAGAR, AL              | HENAGAR EDUCATIONAL FOUNDATION
 WKOC-LP  | IDER, AL                 | IDER EDUCATIONAL BROADCASTING
 WQJJ-LP  | JASPER, AL               | NORTH ALABAMA PUBLIC SERVICE BROADCASTERS
 WRNK-LP  | LANETT, AL               | CONTACT MINISTRY CENTER
 WVMB-LP  | MADISON, AL              | MADISON BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.
 WALW-LP  | MOULTON, AL              | COMMUNITY INFORMATION AND EDUCATION RADIO, INC.
 WURY-LP  | PHENIX CITY, AL          | TALKFAITH RADIO
 WPMR-LP  | RUSSELLVILLE, AL         | PROVISION MINISTRY
 WTUS-LP  | TUSCALOOSA, AL           | CITY OF TUSCALOOSA TRAVEL AND CONVENTION  BUREAU
 WUAC-LP  | TUSCALOOSA, AL           | CRUCIFEST MINISTRIES
 KSWH-LP  | ARKADELPHIA, AR          | HENDERSON STATE UNIVERSITY FOUNDATION
 KCCJ-LP  | BATESVILLE, AR           | CALVARY CHAPEL OF BATESVILLE
 KUOZ-LP  | CLARKSVILLE, AR          | UNIVERSITY OF THE OZARKS
 KHBR-LP  | DECATUR, AR              | HEAVEN BOUND, INC.
 KOZR-LP  | GENTRY, AR               | GENTRY COMMUNICATIONS NETWORK, INC
 KHSA-LP  | HOT SPRINGS, AR          | MARANATHA BROADCASTING MINISTRY, INC.
 KFLO-LP  | JONESBORO, AR            | AMERICAN HERITAGE MEDIA, INC.
 KPWH-LP  | JONESBORO, AR            | POWERHOUSE MINISTRIES
 KPJN-LP  | MARSHALL, AR             | ST. THERESE MISSIONARY SOCIETY
 KRMN-LP  | MENA, AR                 | RICH MOUNTAIN COMMUNITY COLLEGE
 KQIX-LP  | PERRYVILLE, AR           | PERRY COUNTY EDUCATIONAL MEDIA, INC
 KTPV-LP  | PRAIRIE GROVE, AR        | FOUNDATION FOR THE PRESERVATION OF THE INDIVIDUAL
 KDUA-LP  | ROGERS, AR               | ST. ANTHONY OF PADUA EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION
 KHEL-LP  | ROGERS, AR               | NEW COVENANT CHURCH IN AMERICA
 KSSQ-LP  | SILOAM SPRINGS, AR       | SILOAM SPRINGS ADVENTIST EDUCATIONAL RADIO
 KIHW-LP  | WEST HELENA, AR          | HOPE RADIO
 KULA-LP  | ILI'ILI, AS              | PACIFIC ISLANDS BIBLE SCHOOL
 KBWV-LP  | BACAVI, AZ               | THE PATH, INC.
 KBRP-LP  | BISBEE, AZ               | BISBEE RADIO PROJECT, INC
 KCWG-LP  | CROWN KING, AZ           | BRADSHAW MOUNTAIN BROADCASTING, INC.
 KJNN-LP  | HOLBROOK, AZ             | HOLBROOK ADVENTIST EDUCATIONAL RADIO CORPORATION
 KGPS-LP  | KINGMAN, AZ              | CALVARY CHAPEL OF KINGMAN
 KJBE-LP  | LAKESIDE, AZ             | TRUTH & LIFE MINISTRIES
 KPUP-LP  | PATAGONIA, AZ            | THE CENTER FOR LIVING EDUCATION, INC
 KCMA-LP  | PAYSON, AZ               | PAYSON CLASSICAL MUSIC ASSOCIATION, INC.
 KRIM-LP  | PAYSON, AZ               | PAYSON COUNCIL FOR THE MUSICAL ARTS, INC.
 KWSS-LP  | SCOTTSDALE, AZ           | SCOTTSDALE ITALIAN SOCIAL CLUB
 KPYT-LP  | TUCSON, AZ               | PASCUA YAQUI TRIBE, A FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED INDIAN TRIBE
 KWXL-LP  | TUCSON, AZ               | TUCSON UNIFIED SCHOOL DISTRICT
 KPTG-LP  | ADELANTO, CA             | CALVARY CHAPEL OF ADELANTO
 KRLY-LP  | ALPINE, CA               | EAST COUNTY BROADCASTING, INC.
 KMAI-LP  | ALTURAS, CA              | CALIFORNIA, STATE OF
 KCHP-LP  | ARCATA, CA               | CALVARY CHAPEL OF ARCATA
 KWOL-LP  | ARROYO GRANDE, CA        | ARROYO GRANDE SDA CHURCH
 KRHM-LP  | BAKERSFIELD, CA          | YOUNG URBAN BROADCASTERS ASSOCIATION
 KSOJ-LP  | BANNING, CA              | CALVARY CHAPEL OF THE PASS
 KWBB-LP  | BIG BEAR LAKE, CA        | CALVARY CHAPEL OF BIG BEAR
 KKJD-LP  | BORREGO SPRINGS, CA      | BORREGO SPRINGS CHRISTIAN CENTER
 KQIP-LP  | CHICO, CA                | CALVARY CHAPEL OF CHICO
 KMOB-LP  | CLEARLAKE, CA            | MINDS OF BUSINESS INC.
 KGIC-LP  | CORONA, CA               | ANDRES SERRANO MINISTRIES
 KDRT-LP  | DAVIS, CA                | DAVIS COMMUNITY TELEVISION
 KDPT-LP  | DOS PALOS, CA            | DOS PALOS RADIO
 KYFC-LP  | EL CENTRO, CA            | THE YOUTH FOUNDATION & CENTER OF IMPERIAL VALLEY, INC.
 KKDS-LP  | EUREKA, CA               | DELL' ARTE, INC.
 KMKE-LP  | EUREKA, CA               | CALIFORNIA, STATE OF
 KNYO-LP  | FORT BRAGG, CA           | NOYO RADIO PROJECT
 KFCA-LP  | FRESNO, CA               | HMONG AMERICAN COMMUNITY, INC.
 KFOK-LP  | GEORGETOWN, CA           | AMERICAN RIVER FOLK SOCIETY
 KVRY-LP  | GOLETA, CA               | CALVARY CHAPEL OF SANTA BARBARA
 KGGV-LP  | GUERNEVILLE, CA          | CONGREGATIONAL CHURCH OF GUERNEVILLE
 KZED-LP  | LA GRANGE, CA            | LA GRANGE HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION INC.
 KFXM-LP  | LANCASTER, CA            | THE ORGANIZATION FOR THE PRESERVATION & CULTIVATION OF RADIO
 KGAR-LP  | LEMOORE, CA              | LEMOORE UNION HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT
 KSTG-LP  | LODI, CA                 | LODI CHRISTIAN RADIO
 KLPC-LP  | LONE PINE, CA            | LONE PINE ADVENT BELIEVERS
 KPFZ-LP  | LUCERNE, CA              | LAKE COUNTY COMMUNITY RADIO
 KWVS-LP  | MALIBU, CA               | PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY
 KGDM-LP  | MERCED, CA               | CALVARY CHAPEL OF MERCED
 KEQP-LP  | MODESTO, CA              | CALVARY CHAPEL OF MODESTO INC.
 KPSR-LP  | MODESTO, CA              | WESTSIDE PROJECT (COMMUNITY CENTER)
 KMSJ-LP  | MT. SHASTA, CA           | MOUNTAIN CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP
 KCAN-LP  | NEEDLES, CA              | TRI-STATE CHRISTIAN RADIO
 KYRR-LP  | NEVADA CITY, CA          | STEVEN J. MICHELSEN TRUST
 KOCI-LP  | NEWPORT BEACH, CA        | STARTREE FOUNDATION INC.
 KOWS-LP  | OCCIDENTAL, CA           | OCCIDENTAL ARTS AND ECOLOGY CENTER
 KRBS-LP  | OROVILLE, CA             | BIRD STREET MEDIA PROJECT
 KOCC-LP  | OXNARD, CA               | CALVARY CHAPEL OF OXNARD
 KRGR-LP  | PARADISE, CA             | GOLDEN FEATHER MINISTRIES, INC.
 KRBH-LP  | RED BLUFF, CA            | RED BLUFF JOINT UNION HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT
 KDEE-LP  | SACRAMENTO, CA           | CALIFORNIA BLACK CHAMBER OF COMMERCE
 KQRP-LP  | SALIDA, CA               | FELLOWSHIP OF THE EARTH (FOTE)
 KJVA-LP  | SAN BERNARDINO, CA       | VIDA ABUNDANTE
 KHHS-LP  | SAN DIEGO, CA            | HORIZON CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP
 KIHP-LP  | SHASTA LAKE, CA          | CALVARY CHAPEL OF SHASTA LAKE
 KRDW-LP  | SMITH RIVER, CA          | CALVARY CHAPEL OF THE REDWOODS
 KSHC-LP  | ST. HELENA, CA           | ST. HELENA GOOD NEWS BROADCASTING
 KNFS-LP  | TULARE, CA               | THE LORAX SOCIETY
 KEFC-LP  | TURLOCK, CA              | EVANGELICAL FREE CHURCH OF TURLOCK
 KMEC-LP  | UKIAH, CA                | MENDOCINO ENVIRONMENTAL CENTER
 KWLK-LP  | VALLEY SPRINGS, CA       | CALVARY CHAPEL FELLOWSHIP OF VALLEY SPRINGS
 KCVE-LP  | VENTURA, CA              | CALVARY CHAPEL OF VENTURA
 KFSC-LP  | VISALIA, CA              | FRIENDS OF RADIO GRITO /PROYECTO CAMPESINO
 KVLP-LP  | VISALIA, CA              | UNIVERSAL LIFE CHURCH
 KAPU-LP  | WATSONVILLE, CA          | OHANA DE WATSONVILLE
 KWMI-LP  | WEIMAR, CA               | WEIMAR INSTITUTE, INC.
 KYLO-LP  | WOODLAND, CA             | HOLY ROSARY PARISH
 KCYC-LP  | YUBA CITY, CA            | NORTH VALLEY CALVARY CHAPEL
 KRYC-LP  | YUBA CITY, CA            | IRSHAD ALI FOUNDATION
 KJSM-LP  | YUCCA VALLEY, CA         | JOSHUA SPRINGS CALVARY CHAPEL
 KASP-LP  | ASPEN, CO                | COLORADO, STATE OF, TELECOM SERVS
 KAMV-LP  | BRIGHTON, CO             | ALIANZA MINISTERIAL VISION MILENIAL
 KBDL-LP  | CARBONDALE, CO           | COLORADO, STATE OF, TELECOM SERVS
 KCIG-LP  | CRAIG, CO                | COLORADO, STATE OF, TELECOM SERVS
 KCQX-LP  | CUCHARA, CO              | CUCHARA COMMUNITY BROADCAST ASSOCIATION
 KDEA-LP  | DELTA, CO                | COLORADO, STATE OF, TELECOM SERVS
 KMZG-LP  | DURANGO, CO              | CALVARY CHAPEL OF DURANGO, INC.
 KEAE-LP  | EAGLE, CO                | COLORADO, STATE OF, TELECOM SERVS
 KREV-LP  | ESTES PARK, CO           | UNITED METHODIST CHURCH OF ESTES PARK
 KGJN-LP  | GRAND JUNCTION, CO       | COLORADO, STATE OF, TELECOM SERVS
 KELS-LP  | GREELEY, CO              | PLYMOUTH GATHERING INC.
 KGUS-LP  | GUNNISON, CO             | COLORADO, STATE OF, TELECOM SERVS
 KYGT-LP  | IDAHO SPRINGS, CO        | CLEAR CREEK RADIO, INC.
 KRLG-LP  | KREMMLING, CO            | COLORADO, STATE OF, TELECOM SERVS
 KLEV-LP  | LEADVILLE, CO            | COLORADO, STATE OF, TELECOM SERVS
 KLNX-LP  | MINTURN, CO              | MINTURN PUBLIC RADIO
 KMTE-LP  | MONTROSE, CO             | COLORADO, STATE OF, TELECOM SERVS
 KURA-LP  | OURAY, CO                | OURAY SCHOOL DISTRICT R1
 KPCT-LP  | PARACHUTE, CO            | COLORADO, STATE OF, TELECOM SERVS
 KSBP-LP  | PARACHUTE, CO            | KSUN COMMUNITY RADIO
 KTPJ-LP  | PUEBLO, CO               | HOPE RADIO OF PUEBLO CORPORATION
 KHEN-LP  | SALIDA, CO               | TENDERFOOT TRANSMITTING, INC.
 KSJC-LP  | SILVERTON, CO            | SILVERTON COMMUNITY RADIO
 KWMV-LP  | WESTCLIFFE, CO           | CRYSTAL MOUNTAIN CENTER FOR THE PERFORMING ARTS
 WACC-LP  | ENFIELD, CT              | ASNUNTUCK COMMUNITY COLLEGE
 WWBW-LP  | HIGGANUM, CT             | CONNECTICUT RIVER EDUCATIONAL RADIO, INC.
 WCSE-LP  | LEDYARD, CT              | CALVARY CHAPEL OF SOUTHEASTERN CONNECTICUT
 WNLN-LP  | NIANTIC, CT              | NEW HAVEN EDUCATIONAL RADIO CORP.
 WIHW-LP  | DOVER, DE                | CAPITOL BAPTIST CHURCH
 WRBG-LP  | MILLSBORO, DE            | RHYTHM AND BLUES GROUP HARMONY ASSOCIATION, INC.
 WAPQ-LP  | AVON PARK, FL            | HIGHLANDS CHRISTIAN EDUCATION STATION
 WWMA-LP  | AVON PARK, FL            | HIGHLANDS COUNTY CHAPTER OF ASI, INC.
 WGGP-LP  | BIG PINE KEY, FL         | FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH BIG PINE KEY
 WKJO-LP  | BROOKSVILLE, FL          | LANDMARK BAPTIST CHURCH
 WBVL-LP  | BUENA VENTURA LAKES, FL  | LATINOS BROADCASTING ORGANIZATION
 WEKJ-LP  | CHASSAHOWITZKA, FL       | CHRISTIAN RADIO NETWORK, INC.
 WSVB-LP  | CHIEFLAND, FL            | TRINITY BAPTIST CHURCH
 WLPM-LP  | CHRISTMAS, FL            | ORANGE BLOSSOM COMMUNITY MEDIA ASSOCIATION
 WFJV-LP  | CITRONELLE, FL           | WFJV COMMUNITY RADIO GROUP
 WFLP-LP  | COLLIER CO REST AREA, FL | FLORIDA, STATE OF
 WXEI-LP  | CRESTVIEW, FL            | X-STATIC ENTERPRISES INC.
 WCKO-LP  | CROSS CITY, FL           | CROSS CITY COMMUNICATIONS, INC.
 WZPH-LP  | DADE CITY, FL            | PASCO COUNTY EDUCATIONAL CORPORATION
 WIKD-LP  | DAYTONA BEACH, FL        | EMBRY-RIDDLE AERONAUTICAL UNIVERSITY
 WWEO-LP  | DE FUNIAK SPRINGS, FL    | EMANUEL COMMUNICATIONS
 WCQQ-LP  | DESTIN, FL               | CALVARY EMERALD COAST, INCORPORATED
 WRLE-LP  | DUNNELLON, FL            | POWER MINISTRIES
 WLGM-LP  | EDGEWATER, FL            | EDGEWATER ALLIANCE CHURCH
 WFBO-LP  | FLAGLER BEACH, FL        | HALIFAX CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY CHURCH INC.
 WBOF-LP  | FORT PIERCE, FL          | FAITH BAPTIST CHURCH OF FORT PIERCE, FLORIDA, INC.
 WERF-LP  | GAINESVILLE, FL          | FLORIDA EDUCATIONAL BROADCASTING, INC.
 WPZM-LP  | GAINESVILLE, FL          | COMMUNITY PRAISE CENTER
 WFBB-LP  | GLEN ST MARY, FL         | FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH
 WFBU-LP  | GRACEVILLE, FL           | THE BAPTIST COLLEGE OF FLORIDA, INC.
 WCIW-LP  | IMMOKALEE, FL            | INTERFAITH ACTION OF SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, INC.
 WCFQ-LP  | INVERNESS, FL            | STANDING IN THE GAP INC
 WJTW-LP  | JUPITER, FL              | JUPITER COMMUNITY RADIO, INC.
 WORZ-LP  | KEY LARGO, FL            | OCEAN REEF PUBLIC RADIO INC
 WUCR-LP  | LAKE BUTLER, FL          | SYNEWAVE COMMUNICATIONS, INC
 WMJB-LP  | LAKE CITY, FL            | FLORIDA COMMUNITY RADIO, INC.
 WMLO-LP  | LIVE OAK, FL             | MELODY CHRISTIAN RADIO, INC.
 WIMR-LP  | MCINTOSH, FL             | MCINTOSH COMMUNITY RADIO ASSOC
 WFHA-LP  | MELBOURNE, FL            | WINDOVER  FARMS OF  MELBOURNE  HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATION, INC.
 WGRV-LP  | MELBOURNE, FL            | BREVARD YOUTH EDUCATION BROADCASTING CORPORATION
 WCPL-LP  | MERRITT ISLAND, FL       | FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH OF MERRITT ISLAND
 WRDJ-LP  | MERRITT ISLAND, FL       | CALVARY CHAPEL OF MERRITT ISLAND, INC.
 WBFT-LP  | MICCO, FL                | BREVARD COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
 WFLU-LP  | MILES CITY, FL           | FLORIDA, STATE OF
 WITG-LP  | OCALA, FL                | GREAT GOD GOSPEL & EDUCATIONAL STATION, INC.
 WJPP-LP  | PALM CITY, FL            | L.I.F.E./C.A.N., INC.
 WPCU-LP  | PANAMA CITY, FL          | COVENANT PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH IN PANAMA CITY, INC.
 WDBW-LP  | PORT SAINT JOE, FL       | LONG AVENUE BAPTIST CHURCH
 WSLR-LP  | SARASOTA, FL             | NEW COLLEGE STUDENT ALLIANCE (NCSA)
 WTHA-LP  | SEASIDE, FL              | SEASIDE SCHOOL, INC.
 WGSE-LP  | SEBRING, FL              | GREATER SEBRING ADVENTIST EDUCATIONAL RADIO
 WVDV-LP  | SEBRING, FL              | MINISTERIO RADIAL CRISTIANO DE SEBRING, INC.
 WJRN-LP  | SUMMERFIELD, FL          | HISPANIC-MULTICULTURAL BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION
 WZRO-LP  | SUWANNEE, FL             | SUWANNEE RIVER FISHING ASSOCIATION
 WFSD-LP  | TALLAHASSEE, FL          | TALLAHASSEE FIRST SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH
 WVLG-LP  | THE VILLAGES, FL         | THE VILLAGES CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, INC.
 WHTR-LP  | WAKULLA COUNTY, FL       | ST. MARKS TRAIL ASSOCIATION
 WHZL-LP  | WEIRSDALE, FL            | WEIRSDALE WOMEN IN  BROADCASTING  ASSOCIATION
 WASU-LP  | ALBANY, GA               | ALBANY STATE UNIVERSITY
 WSRD-LP  | ALBANY, GA               | SONSHINE RADIO CORPORATION
 WJTR-LP  | ASHBURN, GA              | TURNER COUNTY COUNCIL FOR COMMUNITY EDUCATION
 WDRW-LP  | ATHENS, GA               | CHRISTLIFE COMMUNITY CHURCH
 WPPP-LP  | ATHENS, GA               | THE WEB RIGHTS ASSOCIATION
 WHLE-LP  | ATLANTA, GA              | FELLOWSHIP OF HOLY HIP HOP, INC.
 WRMK-LP  | AUGUSTA, GA              | THE GOOD NEWS CHURCH
 WAAK-LP  | BOYNTON, GA              | BOYNTON EDUCATIONAL RADIO, INC.
 WBFC-LP  | BOYNTON, GA              | BOYNTON LOW POWER BROADCASTING, INC.
 WBHS-LP  | BRUNSWICK, GA            | BRUNSWICK HIGH PIRATE PRIDE BOOSTER CLUB
 WLOJ-LP  | CALHOUN, GA              | GEORGIA-CUMBERLAND ASSOCIATION
 WPCG-LP  | CANTON, GA               | CHEROKEE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH, INC
 WGGR-LP  | CARROLLTON, GA           | TALK OF YOUR LIFE RADIO
 WHLB-LP  | CARTERSVILLE, GA         | HOUSE OF LIBERTY MINISTRIES, INC.
 WBUE-LP  | COLUMBUS, GA             | CALVARY CHRISTIAN LIFE MINISTRIES, INC.
 WZHB-LP  | DOUGLASVILLE, GA         | ZION HILL BAPTIST CHURCH & TRUTH CENTER, INC.
 WFVS-LP  | FORT VALLEY, GA          | THE BROADCASTERS CLUB
 WLVN-LP  | FORT VALLEY, GA          | CALVARY CHAPEL HEARTLAND, INC.
 WFNG-LP  | FROGTOWN, GA             | FROGTOWN COMMUNITY RADIO, INC.
 WSGV-LP  | GUYTON, GA               | CROSS COMMUNICATIONS
 WRMH-LP  | LAGRANGE, GA             | LAGRANGE CHRISTIAN RADIO
 WAQA-LP  | MORGANTON, GA            | MINISTRY OF FAITH ASSOCIATION
 WWEZ-LP  | ST. SIMONS ISLAND, GA    | ST. SIMONS RADIO, INC.
 WBLY-LP  | SYCAMORE, GA             | BETHEL BAPTIST CHURCH OF SYCAMORE, GEORGIA,  INC.
 WJGG-LP  | THOMASVILLE, GA          | CALVARY CHAPEL OF THOMASVILLE
 WSDA-LP  | TRENTON, GA              | MOUNTAIN EDUCATIONAL SERVICES, CORP.
 KGCA-LP  | TUMON, GU                | MARIANAS EDUCATIONAL MEDIA SERVICES, INC.
 KCOF-LP  | CAPTAIN COOK, HI         | KONA INFO INC.
 KCSK-LP  | HANAMAULU, HI            | KAUAI CHRISTIAN ASSEMBLY
 KIHL-LP  | HILO, HI                 | CALVARY CHAPEL HILO
 KJHI-LP  | HONOKAA, HI              | KING'S HERALD RADIO ASSOCIATION
 KAKU-LP  | KAHULUI, HI              | MAUI COUNTY COMMUNITY TELEVISION, INC.
 KIOM-LP  | KAUNAKAKAI, HI           | KROS RADIO ASSOCIATION
 KLUI-LP  | KULA, HI                 | KING'S VOICE ON THE MOUNTAIN RADIO ASSOCIATION
 KOPO-LP  | PAIA, HI                 | PAIA YOUTH COUNCIL INC.
 KEAO-LP  | WAILUKU, HI              | MANA'O RADIO
 KDDI-LP  | ADAIR, IA                | IOWA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
 KCDM-LP  | BURLINGTON, IA           | BURLINGTON EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION
 KYMJ-LP  | CARROLL, IA              | ST BARNABAS EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION
 KULT-LP  | CEDAR FALLS, IA          | BOARD OF CONTROL FOR STUDENT BROADCASTING
 KQOP-LP  | CHARLES CITY, IA         | CHARLES CITY EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION
 KXJX-LP  | CLINTON, IA              | CLINTON EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION
 KOUR-LP  | CORALVILLE, IA           | OUR LADY OF PERPETUAL HELP, INC.
 KRQC-LP  | DAVENPORT, IA            | DAVENPORT ADVENTIST RADIO, INC
 KTJT-LP  | DAVENPORT, IA            | DAVENPORT EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION
 KSDE-LP  | DE SOTO, IA              | IOWA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
 KDRA-LP  | DES MOINES, IA           | DRAKE UNIVERSITY
 KFMG-LP  | DES MOINES, IA           | EMPLOYEE & FAMILY RESOURCES, INC.
 KGYS-LP  | DEWITT, IA               | DEWITT EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION
 KEMB-LP  | EMMETSBURG, IA           | EMMETSBURG CHAMBER OF COMMERCE
 KRUU-LP  | FAIRFIELD, IA            | FAIRFIELD YOUTH ADVOCACY, INC.
 KDME-LP  | FORT MADISON, IA         | DIVINE MERCY EDUCATIONAL RADIO ASSOCIATION
 KGCW-LP  | JOHNSTON, IA             | MERCY OF JESUS EDUCATIONAL RADIO  ASSOCIATION
 KCRM-LP  | MARSHALLTOWN, IA         | MARSHALLTOWN ASSOCIATION FOR CATHOLIC EDUCATION & EVANGEL
 KTDC-LP  | MUSCATINE, IA            | MUSCATINE EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION
 KPBC-LP  | PLEASANTVILLE, IA        | PLEASANTVILLE BAPTIST CHURCH
 KWFF-LP  | POCAHONTAS, IA           | WINDS OF FIRE MINISTRIES
 KSOA-LP  | SLOAN, IA                | IOWA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
 KUBH-LP  | URBANA GARAGE TOWER, IA  | IOWA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
 KBOL-LP  | WATERLOO, IA             | THE COMMUNITY OUTREACH, INC
 KLCW-LP  | HAILEY, ID               | THE LIFE CHURCH WOOD RIVER INC.
 KMEI-LP  | KAMIAH, ID               | KAMIAH VALLEY BROADCASTING CORPORATION
 KPLL-LP  | LEWISTON, ID             | LEWISTON CHRISTIAN RADIO ASSOCIATION
 KRFP-LP  | MOSCOW, ID               | RADIO FREE MOSCOW, INC.
 KUMC-LP  | RUPERT, ID               | RUPERT UNITED METHODIST CHURCH
 KAGF-LP  | TWIN FALLS, ID           | AMAZING GRACE FELLOWSHIP
 WFEL-LP  | ANTIOCH, IL              | FAITH EVANGELICAL LUTHERAN CHURCH
 WEWT-LP  | BLOOMINGTON, IL          | ROCK IN VICTORY MINISTRIES INC
 WJHP-LP  | CARMI, IL                | CROSS ROADS FAMILY BROADCASTING
 WJAF-LP  | CENTRALIA, IL            | DAY STAR CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING
 WLMM-LP  | CHANNAHON, IL            | ANCHOR BROADCASTING OF CHANNAHON
 WLBM-LP  | DANVILLE, IL             | BLUES & SOUL INC.
 WCFS-LP  | DU QUOIN, IL             | CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP CHURCH
 WJHV-LP  | FAIRBURY, IL             | FAITH FELLOWSHIP MINISTRIES, INC.
 WZJM-LP  | FREEBURG, IL             | M&M COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT INC., E. ST. LOUIS BRANCH
 WVCL-LP  | GALESBURG, IL            | CHRISTIAN LIFESTYLE COMMUNICATIONS, INC.
 WGRG-LP  | GENESEO, IL              | GENESEO COMMUNITY RADIO GROUP, INC.
 WLGS-LP  | LAKE VILLA, IL           | CALVARY CHAPEL OF LAKE VILLA
 WTND-LP  | MACOMB, IL               | T AND D COMMUNICATIONS
 WPDQ-LP  | MT. CARMEL, IL           | MT. CARMEL PUBLIC BROADCASTING, INC.
 WCUA-LP  | PEORIA, IL               | PEORIA CHINESE MINISTRY ASSOCIATION
 WWKJ-LP  | PEORIA, IL               | PEORIA CHRISTIAN RADIO CORPORATION
 WQIN-LP  | QUINCY, IL               | 3 ANGELS BROADCASTING MESSENGERS
 WQJC-LP  | QUINCY, IL               | QUINCY NOT FOR PROFIT JAZZ CORPORATION
 WGVV-LP  | ROCK ISLAND, IL          | QUAD CITIES COMMUNITY BROADCASTING GROUP
 WHJG-LP  | ROCKFORD, IL             | PELLEY ROAD CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP
 WTPB-LP  | ROCKFORD, IL             | THIRD PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH OF ROCKFORD
 WRLR-LP  | ROUND LAKE HEIGHTS, IL   | RONDARADIO
 WLJX-LP  | SPRINGFIELD, IL          | BEREAN BAPTIST CHURCH
 WRFU-LP  | URBANA, IL               | SOCIALIST FORUM
 WYIR-LP  | BAUGH CITY, IN           | YOUTH INCORPORATED OF SOUTHERN INDIANA
 WIUX-LP  | BLOOMINGTON, IN          | INDIANA UNIVERSITY STUDENT BROADCASTING
 WHUM-LP  | COLUMBUS, IN             | COLUMBUS COMMUNITY RADIO CORPORATION
 WVRG-LP  | CRAWFORDSVILLE, IN       | CALVARY CHAPEL OF CRAWFORDSVILLE, INC.
 WLFQ-LP  | ELKHART, IN              | LIVING FAITH FELLOWSHIP AND OUTREACH MINISTRIES, INC.
 WCFY-LP  | EVANSVILLE, IN           | CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP CHURCH INC
 WLDC-LP  | GOSHEN, IN               | IGLESIA SINAI PENTECOSTES, INC.
 WQHU-LP  | HUNTINGTON, IN           | HUNTINGTON COLLEGE
 WJJD-LP  | KOKOMO, IN               | KOKOMO SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST BROADCASTING COMPANY
 WTGO-LP  | LAFAYETTE, IN            | HARVEST CHAPEL, INC.
 WNRL-LP  | LIGONIER, IN             | INDIANA HISTORIC RADIO MUSEUM
 WIWU-LP  | MARION, IN               | INDIANA WESLEYAN UNIVERSITY
 WJPB-LP  | MUNCIE, IN               | JACKSON PARK BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.
 WHHC-LP  | NEW CASTLE, IN           | NEW CASTLE BROADCASTING SERVICE, INC.
 WWPO-LP  | OAKLAND CITY, IN         | OAKLAND CITY UNIVERSITY
 WJUK-LP  | PLYMOUTH, IN             | MENOMINEE RADIO CORPORATION
 WSHI-LP  | SHELBYVILLE, IN          | SHELBYVILLE S.D.A. BROADCASTING SERVICES, INC.
 WSBL-LP  | SOUTH BEND, IN           | SOUTH BEND COUNCIL 5001, INC.
 WITW-LP  | VALPARAISO, IN           | THE BOOK OF LIFE BIBLE INSTITUTE, INC.
 WVLP-LP  | VALPARAISO, IN           | NEIGHBORS, CORP.
 WIOE-LP  | WARSAW, IN               | BLESSED BEGINNINGS
 WWCC-LP  | WEST LAFAYETTE, IN       | TRIANGLE FOUNDATION, INC.
 KCCA-LP  | ANTHONY, KS              | THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH OF ANTHONY, KANSAS, INC.
 KFEX-LP  | CHANUTE, KS              | FIRE ESCAPE YOUTH MINISTRIES, INC.
 KODC-LP  | DODGE CITY, KS           | OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
 KVPC-LP  | DODGE CITY, KS           | FIRST PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH OF DODGE CITY, KS
 KCCC-LP  | HAYS, KS                 | CELEBRATION COMMUNITY CHURCH
 KCIU-LP  | LAWRENCE, KS             | LAWRENCE CHINESE EVANGELICAL CHURCH
 KRMI-LP  | MANHATTAN, KS            | MANHATTAN CHINESE MINISTRY ASSOCIATION
 KSMK-LP  | ST. MARYS, KS            | ST. MARYS ACADEMY HOME STUDY SCHOOL ASSOC.
 KTHA-LP  | THAYER, KS               | THAYER SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH
 WITB-LP  | BENTON, KY               | BENTON CHURCH OF CHRIST, INC
 WBLG-LP  | BOWLING GREEN, KY        | MEADOWLAND BAPTIST CHURCH
 WRHR-LP  | CORBIN, KY               | CORBIN PUBLIC SCHOOLS
 WJJA-LP  | EAST BERSTADT, KY        | APPALACHIAN MEDIA OUTREACH
 WFHS-LP  | FERN CREEK, KY           | FERN CREEK TRADITIONAL HIGH SCHOOL ALUMNI ASSOCIATION, INC.
 WRVG-LP  | GEORGETOWN, KY           | GEORGETOWN COLLEGE
 WYZQ-LP  | HAZARD, KY               | HAZARD COMMUNITY BROADCASTING
 WPJI-LP  | HOPKINSVILLE, KY         | PILGRIMS JOURNEY, INC.
 WSPP-LP  | HOPKINSVILLE, KY         | IMMACULATE HEART RADIO ASSOCIATION
 WKYD-LP  | JAMESTOWN, KY            | ANIMAL WELFARE LEAGUE OF RUSSELL COUNTY, INC.
 WXYR-LP  | MONTICELLO, KY           | GENESIS APPALACHIAN PROJECT, INC.
 WFBR-LP  | MT WASHINGTON, KY        | FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH MT WASHINGTON
 WIMM-LP  | OWENSBORO, KY            | TRINITY EDUCATIONAL RADIO ASSOCIATION
 WRHX-LP  | RICHWOOD, KY             | RGS COMMUNICATIONS, INC.
 WXLN-LP  | SHELBYVILLE, KY          | BULLOCK'S CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION
 WZFR-LP  | WALTON, KY               | 24-7 BROADCASTING, INC.
 WCCR-LP  | WILLIAMSBURG, KY         | UNIVERSITY OF THE CUMBERLANDS
 WNLW-LP  | WILLIAMSBURG, KY         | NEW LIFE RADIO, INC
 WYAH-LP  | WINCHESTER, KY           | FRANKLIN AVENUE CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD, INC.
 KCJM-LP  | ALEXANDRIA, LA           | M&M COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT INC., ALEXANDRIA BRANCH
 KURC-LP  | BASTROP, LA              | THE UPPER ROOM CHURCH MINISTRIES
 WBRJ-LP  | BATON ROUGE, LA          | JEFFERSON BAPTIST CHURCH, INC.
 WHYR-LP  | BATON ROUGE, LA          | ETHICS INC
 WTQT-LP  | BATON ROUGE, LA          | LOUISIANA COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CAPITAL FUND, INC.
 KVTZ-LP  | BREAUX BRIDGE, LA        | ST. MARTIN PARISH VOTERS LEAGUE
 WZEN-LP  | HAMMOND, LA              | PARENTCORP FOUNDATION
 KQWJ-LP  | JONESBORO, LA            | GRACE COMMUNITY CHURCH OF JONESBORO, INC.
 KZJM-LP  | LAFAYETTE, LA            | M&M COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT( LAFAYETTE BRANCH)
 KELB-LP  | LAKE CHARLES, LA         | FIVE POINT RADIO, INC.
 KEPT-LP  | MANSFIELD, LA            | FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH OF MANSFIELD
 KCRJ-LP  | MONROE, LA               | IBC MINISTRIES, INC.
 KOUS-LP  | MONROE, LA               | MAHOGONY'S INCUBATION SYSTEM, INC
 KOCZ-LP  | OPELOUSAS, LA            | SOUTHERN DEVELOPMENT FOUNDATION FIELD OFFICE
 KZLC-LP  | PINEVILLE, LA            | LOUISIANA COLLEGE
 KBLK-LP  | SHREVEPORT, LA           | BLACKS UNITED FOR LASTING LEADERSHIP, INC.
 KQAR-LP  | SHREVEPORT, LA           | SHREVEPORT CHRISTIAN RADIO
 WGON-LP  | SLIDELL, LA              | CRISIS PREGNANCY HELP CENTER OF SLIDELL, INC.
 WNRC-LP  | DUDLEY, MA               | NICHOLS COLLEGE
 WXLJ-LP  | EAST HARWICH, MA         | CAPE COD CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING
 WLCQ-LP  | FEEDING HILLS, MA        | LIGHTHOUSE CHRISTIAN CENTER
 WBCR-LP  | GREAT BARRINGTON, MA     | BERKSHIRE COMMUNITY RADIO ALLIANCE
 WLPV-LP  | GREENFIELD, MA           | LIVING WATERS ASSEMBLY OF GOD
 WREA-LP  | HOLYOKE, MA              | RADIO REDENTOR
 WKGT-LP  | NORTH ADAMS, MA          | GOSPEL TRAIN MINISTRY
 WXOJ-LP  | NORTHAMPTON, MA          | FOUNDATION FOR MEDIA EDUCATION, INC.
 WRRS-LP  | PITTSFIELD, MA           | TALKING INFORMATION CENTER, INC.
 WEES-LP  | OCEAN CITY, MD           | EDINBORO EARLY SCHOOL, INC.
 WMVK-LP  | PERRYVILLE, MD           | STATE OF MARYLAND, MDOT, MARYLAND TRANSIT ADMN.
 WMJS-LP  | PRINCE FREDERICK, MD     | ST. PAUL'S PARISH/ST. PAUL'S EPISCOPAL CHURCH
 WXSU-LP  | SALISBURY, MD            | SALISBURY UNIVERSITY
 WRYR-LP  | SHERWOOD, MD             | WRYR COMMUNITY RADIO INC
 WJZP-LP  | PORTLAND, ME             | ALL INCLUSIVE, INC.
 WRFR-LP  | ROCKLAND, ME             | PENOBSCOT SCHOOL
 WJZF-LP  | STANDISH, ME             | STANDISH CITIZENS EDUCATIONAL ORGANIZATION, INC.
 WFPM-LP  | BATTLE CREEK, MI         | FIRST PENTECOSTAL CHURCH OF GOD IN CHRIST
 WBHC-LP  | BENTON HARBOR, MI        | CITY OF BENTON HARBOR
 WVBH-LP  | BENTON HARBOR, MI        | FLATS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORP.
 WSFT-LP  | BERRIEN SPRINGS, MI      | LIFE SEARCH RADIO, INC.
 WLWZ-LP  | CASSOPOLIS, MI           | PRAYER TOWER MINISTRY
 WGLN-LP  | CEDAR LAKE, MI           | GREAT LAKES ADVENTIST ACADEMY
 WDLP-LP  | FENWICK, MI              | MONTCALM PUBLIC RADIO, INC.
 WKUF-LP  | FLINT, MI                | KETTERING UNIVERSITY
 WEEH-LP  | HART, MI                 | OCEANA BROADCASTERS, INC
 WMLY-LP  | MARSHALL, MI             | MARSHALL CHRISTIAN RADIO
 WQOS-LP  | MOUNT PLEASANT, MI       | CHILDREN SAVING CHILDREN SERVICES
 WMMT-LP  | MUSKEGON, MI             | MUSKEGON TRAINING & EDUCATION CENTER (M-TEC)
 WUVS-LP  | MUSKEGON, MI             | THE WEST MICHIGAN COMMUNITY HELP NETWORK
 WMBC-LP  | NORTON SHORES, MI        | MARANATHA BIBLE AND MISSIONARY CONFERENCE
 WRDS-LP  | ROSCOMMON, MI            | SOUL'S HARBOR ASSEMBLY OF GOD CHURCH
 WBSQ-LP  | SAINT LOUIS, MI          | BRECKENRIDGE COMMUNITY SERVICES
 WMLZ-LP  | TEMPERANCE, MI           | BEDFORD PUBLIC SCHOOLS
 WRHC-LP  | THREE OAKS, MI           | HARBOR ARTS
 WAWB-LP  | WEST BRANCH, MI          | WEST BRANCH SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST BROADCASTING, INC.
 KBJI-LP  | BEMIDJI, MN              | BEMIDJI RELIGIOUS EDUCATION BROADCASTING
 WUSG-LP  | CAMBRIDGE, MN            | CAMBRIDGE ADVENTIST BROADCASTING CORPORATION
 WYSG-LP  | HINCKLEY, MN             | HINCKLEY ADVENTIST BROADCASTING CORPORATION
 KKRM-LP  | MONTEVIDEO, MN           | THUNDERHAWK BROADCASTING INC.
 KXBQ-LP  | MOORHEAD, MN             | WOMEN'S CARE CLINIC, INC.
 WMLA-LP  | MOOSE LAKE, MN           | MOOSE LAKE ADVENTIST BROADCASTING CORPORATION
 KNLW-LP  | ROCHESTER, MN            | NEW LIFE WORSHIP CENTER
 KGLH-LP  | SPICER, MN               | HOPE PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH
 KCSW-LP  | CANTON, MO               | CULVER-STOCKTON COLLEGE
 KDMC-LP  | CAPE GIRARDEAU, MO       | SOUTHEAST MISSOURI STATE UNIVERSITY BOARD OF REGENTS
 KHIS-LP  | CAPE GIRARDEAU, MO       | FLAT FOOT MEDIA, INC.
 KSDC-LP  | CENTRALIA, MO            | SUNNYDALE ADVENTIST ACADEMY
 KLJE-LP  | COLUMBIA, MO             | COLUMBIA CHINESE CHRISTIAN CHURCH
 DKWWU-LP | FULTON, MO               | WILLIAM WOODS UNIVERSITY
 KRFL-LP  | FULTON, MO               | REVELATION FOR LIVING BROADCASTING, INC.
 KHBL-LP  | HANNIBAL, MO             | HANNIBAL COMMUNITY AND BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT, INC.
 KZLX-LP  | MARYVILLE, MO            | NORTHWEST FOUNDATION, INCORPORATED
 KYHO-LP  | POPLAR BLUFF, MO         | VISION BROADCASTING OF POPLAR BLUFF, INC.
 KJTR-LP  | ROLLA, MO                | ROLLA CHINESE CHRISTIAN ASSOCIATION
 KLHM-LP  | ST. JOSEPH, MO           | LIGHTHOUSE RADIO MINISTRY, INC.
 WQRZ-LP  | BAY SAINT LOUIS, MS      | HANCOCK COUNTY AMATEUR RADIO ASSOC., INC.
 WWCV-LP  | CANTON, MS               | CANTON CONVENTION & VISITORS BUREAU
 WQTP-LP  | COLUMBUS, MS             | RTBT, LLC
 WTRR-LP  | GLEN, MS                 | HIS COMPASSIONATE TOUCH HUMAN SERVICES CORPORATION
 WIXP-LP  | GREENVILLE, MS           | GRACE OUTREACH BIBLE CHURCH, INC.
 WQID-LP  | HATTIESBURG, MS          | HATTIESBURG URBAN HERITAGE ASSOCIATION
 WGWT-LP  | HOUSTON, MS              | COMPASS POINTS EDUCATIONAL FOUNDATION, INC.
 WLEZ-LP  | JACKSON, MS              | MISSISSIPPI INTERNATIONAL FILM & VIDEO FESTIVAL
 WNNN-LP  | NOXAPATER, MS            | MT. VERNON MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH
 WPWS-LP  | PINEY WOODS, MS          | THE PINEY WOODS SCHOOL
 WKIU-LP  | TUPELO, MS               | TUPELO 2000, INC.
 KBAS-LP  | BASIN, MT                | JEFFERSON COUNTY DISASTER & EMERGENCY SERVICES
 KEME-LP  | BOULDER, MT              | JEFFERSON COUNTY DISASTER & EMERGENCY SERVICES
 KMEA-LP  | BOZEMAN, MT              | GALATIN CHRISTIAN EDUCATION STATION
 KOFK-LP  | BOZEMAN, MT              | GUILD OF ST. PETER
 KBWG-LP  | BROWNING, MT             | BROWNING, TOWN OF
 KQOV-LP  | BUTTE, MT                | QUEEN OF VICTORY EDUCATIONAL RADIO ASSOCIATION
 KEAC-LP  | CARDWELL, MT             | JEFFERSON COUNTY DISASTER & EMERGENCY SERVICES
 KEAJ-LP  | CELL SITE, MT            | JEFFERSON COUNTY DISASTER & EMERGENCY SERVICES
 KCTQ-LP  | CHARLO, MT               | CONFEDERATED SALISH & KOOTENAI TRIBES DISASTER & EMER. SVS.
 KCTD-LP  | DIXON, MT                | CONFEDERATED SALISH & KOOTENAI TRIBES DISASTER & EMER. SVS.
 KWEP-LP  | ELK PARK, MT             | JEFFERSON COUNTY DISASTER & EMERGENCY SERVICES
 KCTM-LP  | ELMO, MT                 | CONFEDERATED SALISH & KOOTENAI TRIBES DISASTER & EMER. SVS.
 KEUR-LP  | EUREKA, MT               | EUREKA ADVENTIST RADIO, INC.
 KCTJ-LP  | FINLEY POINT, MT         | CONFEDERATED SALISH & KOOTENAI TRIBES DISASTER & EMER. SVS.
 KSMR-LP  | GREAT FALLS, MT          | SAINT MICHAEL RADIO, INC.
 KRWS-LP  | HARDIN, MT               | GREATER HARDIN ASSOCIATION
 KHFG-LP  | HELENA, MT               | KHFG-LP, INC.
 KNEH-LP  | HELENA, MT               | HELENA COMMUNITY EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION
 KANB-LP  | KALISPELL, MT            | FLATHEAD ADVENTIST RADIO, INC.
 KXZI-LP  | KALISPELL, MT            | THE CROSS WORKS MINISTRIES
 KJRZ-LP  | LIBBY, MT                | LIBBY AREA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE
 KCTB-LP  | LONEPINE, MT             | CONFEDERATED SALISH & KOOTENAI TRIBES DISASTER & EMER. SVS.
 KWLG-LP  | MONTANA CITY, MT         | JEFFERSON COUNTY DISASTER & EMERGENCY SERVICES
 KCTP-LP  | PABLO, MT                | CONFEDERATED SALISH & KOOTENAI TRIBES DISASTER & EMER. SVS.
 KWHP-LP  | PLAINS, MT               | PLAINS-PARADISE EMERGENCY SERVICES
 KMDM-LP  | POLSON, MT               | ST. JOSEPH'S EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION
 KPLR-LP  | POPLAR, MT               | POPLAR SCHOOL SYSTEM
 KFAS-LP  | SHELBY, MT               | SHELBY EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION
 KTGC-LP  | ST. REGIS, MT            | ST. REGIS PUBLIC SCHOOL
 KDGZ-LP  | TOWNSEND, MT             | TOWNSEND K12 SCHOOL DISTRICT #1
 KCTG-LP  | TURTLE LAKE, MT          | CONFEDERATED SALISH & KOOTENAI TRIBES DISASTER & EMER. SVS.
 KESW-LP  | WHITEHALL, MT            | JEFFERSON COUNTY DISASTER & EMERGENCY SERVICES
 WPVM-LP  | ASHEVILLE, NC            | MOUNTAIN AREA INFORMATION NETWORK
 WRES-LP  | ASHEVILLE, NC            | EMPOWERMENT RESOURCE CENTER OF ASHEVILLE & BUNCOMBE CO. INC.
 WBYJ-LP  | BURLINGTON, NC           | BURLINGTON CHRISTIAN RADIO, INC.
 WCOM-LP  | CHAPEL HILL, NC          | PUBLIC GALLERY OF CARRBORO, INC.
 WDJD-LP  | ELIZABETHTOWN, NC        | ELIZABETHTOWN AIRWAVES MINISTRY, INC.
 WFWC-LP  | FREMONT, NC              | FREMONT UNITED METHODIST CHURCH
 WLRZ-LP  | HICKORY, NC              | LENOIR-RHYNE COLLEGE
 WHCR-LP  | HOBGOOD, NC              | THE TOWN OF HOBGOOD
 WSEQ-LP  | HUDSON, NC               | SOUTH CALDWELL HIGH SCHOOL
 WSER-LP  | LENOIR, NC               | CALDWELL COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS
 WJOF-LP  | LIBERTY, NC              | HEALTH AND LIBERTY, INC
 WWGT-LP  | LINCOLNTON, NC           | LIGHT OF THE WORLD
 WPTP-LP  | MARBLE, NC               | EMMANUEL BAPTIST CHURCH
 WHGW-LP  | MORGANTON, NC            | MORGANTON CHRISTIAN RADIO CORPORATION
 WMTG-LP  | MOUNT GILEAD, NC         | MOUNT GILEAD COMMUNITY CONCERTS ASSOCIATION
 WEJM-LP  | MOUNT ZION, NC           | M&M COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT, INC GREENSBORO, NC BRANCH
 WFOG-LP  | MT. AIRY, NC             | MT. AIRY COMMUNITY RADIO INC
 WVDJ-LP  | RALEIGH, NC              | TRIANGLE ACCESS BROADCASTING, INC.
 WEZU-LP  | ROANOKE RAPIDS, NC       | BETTER LIFE, INC.
 WDSG-LP  | SANFORD, NC              | CRYSTAL GARDENS, INC.
 WDLV-LP  | SIMPSON, NC              | DYNAMIC LIVING RADIO, INC.
 WVEM-LP  | STANLEY, NC              | VOICE OF EVANGELISM CATHEDRAL INC.
 WEOM-LP  | THOMASVILLE, NC          | WORLD EVANGELISTIC OUTREACH MINISTRIES, INC.
 WEHB-LP  | WADESBORO, NC            | FIRST UNITED METHODIST CHURCH
 WBPL-LP  | WILMINGTON, NC           | ARCHANGEL GABRIEL ASSOCIATION
 WUBN-LP  | WILSON, NC               | MIRACLE CHRISTIAN INTERNATIONAL LIFE CENTER
 WFEC-LP  | WINSTON SALEM, NC        | IGLESIA BAUTISTA EL CAMINO
 KBEP-LP  | BISMARCK, ND             | BISMARCK EDUCATIONAL PRAYER ASSOCIATION
 KJIT-LP  | BISMARCK, ND             | BISMARCK ADVENTIST EDUCATION STATION
 KLBE-LP  | BISMARCK, ND             | NEW SONG COMMUNITY CHURCH
 KOWW-LP  | BURLINGTON, ND           | POINTE OF VIEW INSTITUTE
 KPAR-LP  | DICKINSON, ND            | SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH
 KNDS-LP  | FARGO, ND                | ALLIANCE FOR THE ARTS AND HUMANITIES
 KOBT-LP  | GRAND FORKS, ND          | GRAND FORKS CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING
 KSAF-LP  | MINOT, ND                | TRUE LIGHT BROADCASTING, INC.
 KIVE-LP  | AURORA, NE               | DAWN ADVENTIST BROADCASTING
 KAWA-LP  | CALLAWAY, NE             | CALLAWAY VILLAGE RADIO
 KGIA-LP  | GRAND ISLAND, NE         | GRAND ISLAND ADVENTIST EDUCATIONAL RADIO
 KJFT-LP  | LINCOLN, NE              | LINCOLN CHINESE MINISTRY ASSOCIATION
 KNIF-LP  | SCOTTSBLUFF, NE          | CALVARY CHAPEL SCOTTSBLUFF
 KPVA-LP  | SHELTON, NE              | PLATTE VALLEY EDUCATIONAL RADIO
 WJSK-LP  | BARTLETT, NH             | THE BARTLETT-JACKSON COMMUNITY BROADCASTERS ASSOCIATION
 WCNH-LP  | CONCORD, NH              | HIGHLAND COMMUNITY BROADCASTING
 WXGR-LP  | DOVER, NH                | GRITTY
 WFCB-LP  | DUBLIN, NH               | KINGDOM CHRISTIAN MINISTRIES, INC.
 WXND-LP  | ETNA, NH                 | NDIMENSION
 WKHP-LP  | KEENE, NH                | KEENE FOURSQUARE CHURCH D/B/A HARVEST CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP
 WLLO-LP  | LONDONDERRY, NH          | LONDONDERRY SCHOOL DISTRICT, SCHOOL ADMINISTRATIVE UNIT 12
 WSCA-LP  | PORTSMOUTH, NH           | SEACOASTS ARTS AND CULTURAL ALLIANCE
 WFPC-LP  | RINDGE, NH               | FRANKLIN PIERCE COLLEGE
 WUPC-LP  | ARROWHEAD VILLAGE, NJ    | RADIO ALERTA
 WZFI-LP  | BRIDGETON, NJ            | AZARIAH COMMUNICATIONS
 WCFA-LP  | CAPE MAY, NJ             | CENTER FOR COMMUNITY ARTS, INC.
 WMDI-LP  | LAKEWOOD, NJ             | AMERICAN INSTITUTE FOR JEWISH EDUCATION (AIJE)
 WMRH-LP  | LINWOOD, NJ              | MAINLAND REGIONAL HIGH SCHOOL
 WLOM-LP  | OCEAN CITY, NJ           | CALVARY CHAPEL OF OCEAN CITY, INC.
 WPOV-LP  | VINELAND, NJ             | CALVARY CHAPEL OF VINELAND, INC.
 KALH-LP  | ALAMOGORDO, NM           | SOUTHWESTERN TRAILS CULTURAL HERITAGE ASSOCIATION
 KBNM-LP  | BELEN, NM                | TIXS FOR KIDS
 KLDK-LP  | DIXON, NM                | EMBUDO VALLEY COMMUNITY LIBRARY
 KROZ-LP  | HOBBS, NM                | FIRST BI-LINGUAL CHRISTIAN MINISTERAL ASSOCIATION
 KLYN-LP  | LAS VEGAS, NM            | THE ROCK CHRISTIAN OUTREACH
 KCMG-LP  | LOVINGTON, NM            | LOVINGTON CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION
 KEDU-LP  | RUIDOSO, NM              | CHRISTIAN BUSINESS OWNERS OF LINCOLN COUNTY
 KAVS-LP  | FALLON, NV               | OASIS CHRISTIAN RADIO INC.
 KYHW-LP  | GARDNERVILLE, NV         | CALVARY CHAPEL OF CARSON VALLEY
 KPOT-LP  | JACKPOT, NV              | JACKPOT COMBINED SCHOOL
 KKTT-LP  | WINNEMUCCA, NV           | WINNEMUCCA CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING ASSOCIATION
 WNAR-LP  | ARCADE, NY               | ARCADE CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION
 WSVV-LP  | CENTER MORICHES, NY      | THE SAVIOR'S VOICE BROADCASTING COMPANY, INC
 WLRG-LP  | CORNING, NY              | CORNING CHRISTIAN RADIO CORPORATION
 WDRX-LP  | CORTLAND, NY             | CORTLAND CHRISTIAN RADIO, INC.
 WELV-LP  | ELLENVILLE, NY           | ELLENVILLE CENTRAL SCHOOL DISTRICT
 WSAC-LP  | GENEVA, NY               | FINGER LAKES REGIONAL ARTS COUNCIL, INC.
 WBLN-LP  | GLENS FALLS, NY          | BETTER LIVING RADIO, INC.
 WIHR-LP  | JAMESTOWN, NY            | ADVENT RADIO MINISTRIES CORPORATION
 WOGM-LP  | JAMESTOWN, NY            | LIGHTHOUSE BAPTIST CHURCH
 WRFA-LP  | JAMESTOWN, NY            | ARTS COUNCIL FOR CHAUTAUQUA COUNTY, INC.
 WKHV-LP  | KINGSTON, NY             | KINGSTON OUTREACH SERVICES
 WNYL-LP  | LIMA, NY                 | ELIM GOSPEL CHURCH OF LIMA NY
 WKEG-LP  | LIMESTONE, NY            | LIMESTONE COMMUNITY RADIO
 WMUD-LP  | MORIAH, NY               | CHAMPLAIN MUSIC APPRECIATION SOCIETY, INC.
 WKUY-LP  | NEWPORT, NY              | WEST CANADA CHRISTIAN RESOURCES
 WJIH-LP  | ONEONTA, NY              | SPIRIT AND TRUTH CHRISTIAN ASSEMBLY
 WUOW-LP  | ONEONTA, NY              | THE STATE UNIVERITY OF NEW YORK COLLEGE AT ONEONTA
 WLIX-LP  | RIDGE, NY                | PINE BARRENS BROADCASTING
 WNYP-LP  | RIPLEY, NY               | NY STATE THRUWAY AUTHORITY
 WAPP-LP  | WESTHAMPTON, NY          | AQUILA BROADCASTING CORP.
 WEAK-LP  | ATHENS, OH               | HOBBY RADIO, INC.
 WYWH-LP  | ATHENS, OH               | HOPE RADIO OF ATHENS, INC.
 WVVW-LP  | BELPRE, OH               | MID-OHIO VALLEY EDUCATIONAL ASSN.
 WBWH-LP  | BLUFFTON, OH             | BLUFFTON COLLEGE
 WWOC-LP  | BOWLING GREEN, OH        | WWOC GOSPEL BROADCASTING, INC.
 WKJH-LP  | BRYAN, OH                | LIGHTHOUSE MINISTRIES OF NORTHWEST OHIO
 WCRS-LP  | COLUMBUS, OH             | SIMPLY LIVING
 WCRX-LP  | COLUMBUS, OH             | BEXLEY PUBLIC RADIO FOUNDATION
 WOOO-LP  | DEFIANCE, OH             | FORT DEFIANCE YOUTH RADIO, INC.
 WINF-LP  | DELAWARE, OH             | DELAWARE COUNTY DEVELOPMENT COMPANY
 WPCO-LP  | FREMONT, OH              | FREMONT EDUCATIONAL RADIO, INC.
 WJHE-LP  | HEATH, OH                | MOUNDBUILDERS CHRISTIAN RADIO CORPORTION
 WSWO-LP  | HUBER HEIGHTS, OH        | SOUTHWESTERN OHIO PUBLIC RADIO, INC.
 WCBV-LP  | LIMA, OH                 | CALVARY BIBLE CHURCH
 WNHC-LP  | LIMA, OH                 | NEW HOPE CHRISTIAN CENTER
 WWTL-LP  | LOGAN, OH                | BRANCH COMMUNICATIONS
 WCYC-LP  | LONDON, OH               | MADISON AREA YOUTH CENTER, INC
 WZLP-LP  | LOUDONVILLE, OH          | ZION EVANGELICAL LUTHERAN CHURCH
 WNCG-LP  | MANSFIELD, OH            | NORTH CENTRAL STATE COLLEGE
 WVVP-LP  | MARIETTA, OH             | FELLOWSHIP BAPTIST CHURCH
 WWOH-LP  | MARIETTA, OH             | HOPE RADIO OF MARIETTA, INC.
 WDCM-LP  | MARION, OH               | THE U.S. OPEN JUNIOR DRUM AND BUGLE CORPS CHAMPIONSHIP COMM.
 WTPS-LP  | NAPOLEON, OH             | ST. PAUL LUTHERAN CHURCH
 WLCI-LP  | NELSONVILLE, OH          | HOCKING TECHNICAL COLLEGE
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121a0012 (talk) 04:54, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Style issue regarding trailing zeroes in shortwave station frequencies

This is a request for consensus on a style issue regarding the format of shortwave radio station frequencies. On the WBCQ article, User:Stereorock insists that the zeroes in "5.110, 7.415, 9.330 and 18.910 MHz" are "useless" and "redundant" because "we learned in math class that 18.910=18.91". I say that because frequencies are physical quantities, the concept of significant figures applies and the zeros should be there to give the same precision as those frequencies ending in "5". I thought a decent compromise would be to cite the frequencies in kHz (i.e. "5110, 7415, 9330 and 18910 kHz), but Stereorock reverted that change. The Manual of Style appears to agree with me, but I would like to determine if that is supported by consensus. Please see my comments here and Stereorock's reply here. DHowell (talk) 02:29, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Since radio frequencies have a context other than than purely mathematical, how do reliable sources deal with the decimals? I'm thinking something like WRTH may be helpful as a guide. - LuckyLouie (talk) 02:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Both notations are commonly used in the industry. All the editions of WRTH that I've ever seen use kilohertz, but many other publications use megahertz. Since shortwave broadcasting uses 5-kHz channels, frequencies when written in megahertz must be given with three digits to the right of the radix point; anything else is simply wrong. My own personal preference is to use kilohertz for shortwave; this makes it more obvious when an off-channel frequency is identified. (Kilohertz is the only acceptable unit for longwave and mediumwave—unless you're giving the wavelength, in meters—and megahertz should be used for VHF and UHF.) 121a0012 (talk) 03:25, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Trailing zeros should be left on. This person can dispute this all they want it still does not remove the fact that using trailing zeros is still a widely accepted practice.
--DP67 (talk/contribs) 04:10, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
So this is where "consensus" hangs out. Does anyone REMEMBER math class in school where it was TAUGHT that final 0s aren't needed because it's just EXCESS?! 5.100=5.1! These zeros are just PLACEHOLDERS and are like an appendix: useless! Additionally it doesn't matter that a certain industry uses a certain style because if it's wrong, it's WRONG! Did you know about 10 years ago the New York Times placed apostrophes in decades (1960's) vs. the RIGHT way (1960s). The Old Gray Lady of print screwed up THAT simple little bit of grammar. Anyway, the fact that the zeros AREN'T there should tell any reasonable person that the zero is implied. If they can't figure THAT out, let them find something less challenging. Also, if you're gonna list a frequency in kHz above A.M. then make sure you put the comma in (that's to denote the seperation between tens-of-thousands & thousands against the hundreds, tens & ones columns).Stereorock (talk) 22:34, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Actually commas are rarely, if ever, used in any reliable source writing about shortwave stations and citing frequencies in kHz (e.g. WRTH). But hey, if they make you happy, and in the interests of compromise, I'll leave them in for you. DHowell (talk) 10:43, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Leave the trailing zeroes on. It's just like in currency, you write $19.50, not $19.5. With the trailing zero, the frequencies format better in tables, match the way they are displayed on the radio dial, and give an idea how the channelization works. Squidfryerchef (talk) 03:45, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
The trailing zero is a significant digit when it comes to noting precision in scientific measurements. It's important, it's standard, it should stay. - Dravecky 21:56, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

LP notability?

Has consensus been reached by the project on what stations are inherently notable? Is it all licensed stations? Is it all class C or higher? I know we've agreed that translators need to go on the parent stations page and are not notable enough to warrant an article of their own but what about LP stations? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rtphokie (talk • contribs) 15:46, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I think the consensus is that fully licensed stations are inherently notable, but the debate is still going with LPFM's. Mr mark taylor 17:02, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
That's something of a contradiction. And I think the terms of debate have moved on from "inherent notability" to "presumed notability". I have argued in favor of presumed non-notability for LPFMs (which are "fully licensed stations" like any others), and presumed notability for full-power originating stations. Formal satellites (only allowed for non-commercial licenses) and secondaries (translators and boosters) should again be presumed non-notable. (A translator might be notable if it is controversial, as W276AQ, or very unusual, as K200AA, but these should be considered under the usual standards of reliable third-party sources. A satellite will normally be described in the article for the originating station, but might have its own article if it has originated its own programming in the past.) 121a0012 (talk) 01:43, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

KTNL (AM)

I noticed that there was just a single redlinked station listed in the Juneau Radio template so I began to create an article for KTNL (AM) but discovered that there is no such station in the FCC database nor does the List of radio stations in Alaska include a station at 1330 AM. What source is there for this station to be included in this template? - Dravecky (talk) 09:00, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

KTNL is the former callsign of 1330 AM KXLJ, which is currently under Construction Permit status. JPG-GR (talk) 17:35, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Article for deletion: Big L 1395

Big L 1395 at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Big L 1395 (26 November 2007)

--User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 19:58, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Article for deletion: SURGE 1287AM

SURGE 1287AM at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SURGE 1287AM (6 December 2007)

--User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 11:53, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I see the nomination has been withdrawl. All is well.--Rtphokie (talk) 13:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Format specific navboxes

Are templates like Template:Rock Radio stations (East) and Template:Rock Radio stations (West) worthwhile? I'm wondering if they'll be kept up to date. Seems to add more clutter to pages. Will many users be interested in navigating this way?--Rtphokie (talk) 14:08, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Yikes. I just ran into "Rock Radio stations (East)" while editing and, uh, I'm not convinced that these are either useful or practical. They might make interesting lists for people looking for rock music stations when travelling but I can't imagine navigating this category, especially only by call letters! - Dravecky (talk) 04:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Agreed, boxes for specific formats by state (i.e. CHR/Top 40 stations in Florida, etc.) can easily be sorted out and helpful, unlike the mashed together mess than the specific formats across the county, even if they are divided into two boxes. Mr mark taylor (talk) 12:47, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
These templates have been removed from 217 articles. I agree that format specific navboxes by state would be more appropriate--Rtphokie (talk) 18:15, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
I kinda thought it was a cool idea myself, but having a state-by-state template (ala {{NPR Virginia}}) would be better, less cluttered, and easier to update. - NeutralHomer T:C 20:31, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Pinoy FM stations revisited

You may have seem a similar discussion from a month ago up there, but here are my thoughts on naming conventions

How I've always interpreted it in general is that "If the government issues callsigns, we use callsigns. If the government doesn't issue callsigns, use the branding". Sure, the stations may be more well-known by their brand name, but isn't that the case in North America? Heck, it even affects Television down here in Canada - all the stations do have call signs, but lately most terrestrial TV stations (well, except for the affiliates of E! during newscasts) have pretended that their callsigns don't even exist and just use their network's branding. I see that how things go down in the Philippines television/radio-wise are not only a lot like North America, but are a part of a global trend in areas that utilize callsigns.
Final thoughts? Change them back to call letters, leave the redirects. ViperSnake151 16:01, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Article for deletion: WEZS (AM)

WEZS (AM) at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/WEZS (AM) (12 December 2007)

Well, that was over fast. "The result was speedy keep, nom votes keep with only keep !votes present." Nice to see one of these that isn't a long slogging debate over shadings of word meanings. - Dravecky (talk) 22:45, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Program Directory content

I don't usually work on this topic., so I would appreciate comments whether current program schedules for individual stations are considered encyclopedic,such as the one at KLBJ (AM)

And are lists of current non-notable staff without further information considered encyclopedic, such as at KAMX? I come across these from time to time on revising articles about colleges, and i'd like to know the current practice. If they are considered OK, I'd certainly not want to interfere. DGG (talk) 06:45, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Program schedules and plain lists of staff members are not presumed encyclopedic but my general practice has been to rewrite these into a short prose description of current programming rather than a simple excision of the offending text. - Dravecky (talk) 10:10, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
There has been debate after debate on current schedules, namely someone adds a schedule, another removes it under WP:NOT#DIR and then a debate starts at WT:NOT asking for current schedules to be made encyclopaedic. There is the second problem that if text is copied and pasted from a website, it could violate copyright, and this mostly came about because of consistent additions of current schedules for the main four UK terrestrial TV channels articles. The current schedules for these channels are copyright and are owned by Broadcasting Dataservices. Under the UK's 1990 Broadcasting Act, schedule publishers are required by law to pay a royalty to BDS,[6] something that a free encyclopaedia cannot and should not do.
The general consensus is that like with trivia, other directories and so on - Wikipedia is not a TV Guide or electronic program(me) guide and so TV and radio current schedules are not considered encyclopaedic. There is a template {{schedule}} which can be used to mark up schedules for cleanup and conversion to prose if you do not feel confident to do so. --tgheretford (talk) 12:56, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Country is a place, not a format

There's no issue with describing a station's format as "Country" as long as the underlying wikilink is actually to "Country music", the proper article. I just spent the better part of three days editing almost 400 station articles to correct [[Country]] to [[Country music|Country]] and having made my way carefully through the entire massive list of articles that link to "Country" twice (twice!) in that time, I'd prefer not to have to do it again. Thanks! - Dravecky (talk) 10:23, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I was wondering why some of the formats were changed to [[Country]] from [[Country music|Country]]....it never crossed my mind, "that might go to an actual country"...duh :P I will keep a closer eye on the VA, WV, MD, and PA country stations so they aren't changed back [[Country]] for whatever reason. - NeutralHomer T:C 10:42, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
I've been guilty of this as well. I went through last night with AWB and cleaned up any page that linked to Country that looked radio station-ish (there weren't many left) Thanks for pointing that out.--Rtphokie (talk) 15:54, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Notability (media)

The leading opponent of Wikipedia:Notability (media) is now calling for rejection of the proposal on the basis that it lacks widespread support. I think he's wrong about this but it seems that quantity as well as quality of comment is required in Wikipedia talk:Notability (media) as soon as possible. - Dravecky (talk) 23:19, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Rhetorical question

I know that, given the language gap, en:'s coverage of Mexico is always going to lag somewhat compared to our coverage of Spanish language topics in the United States, but are there perhaps a few Spanish-speaking editors here who could take a crack at improving our coverage of Mexican radio (and no, I don't mean the Stan Ridgway song, either.) I'm someone who can really only muddle my way through very basic Spanish by pretending it's badly-spelled French, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in knowing more about Mexican broadcasting... Bearcat (talk) 06:30, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

RE: Category sorting

The following categories are in need of proper sorting by sorting minus the initial callsign letter:

The following categories are in need of proper sorting by the initial callsign letter:

If anyone's interested in some simple maintenance edits. JPG-GR (talk) 07:58, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I took care of Category:Radio stations in North Carolina, found a few missing articles from that category as well. I'm also categorizing articles into the appropriate regional categories within NC where they exist (very inconsistent there right now). I can take care of Category:Radio stations in California if no one else is intereted.--Rtphokie (talk) 15:51, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
We need to come up with some kind of system for geographic sub-categories of each state. For instance, a subcategory for Providence, Rhode Island inside Rhode Island seems kinda silly based on the sheer number of items. JPG-GR (talk) 21:12, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm not convinced these sub categories are all that useful. The market navboxes are far more useful and would be a better investiment of maintence time. If the consensus is that these categories are worthwhile, I'm thinking there need to be at least 25 stations in a market to warrant it's own sub category.--Rtphokie (talk) 01:33, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for organizing this, JPG-GR. I'm working my way steadily through Category:Radio stations in Pennsylvania. It would be a lot faster going if I didn't keep running into stubs that need extensive wikification, basic structural elements, or even any article text whatsoever (and WPGM-FM is just one of a bunch like this I've found!). -- Dravecky (talk 07:17, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 Done Whew, that's what I get for picked the state with the longest unsorted list. But it's done and so are all of its associated sub-cats. On to Category:Radio stations in South Carolina next! - Dravecky (talk) 21:16, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 Done Okay, that's South Carolina finished. I'll poke around but won't take on another whole state until I get a meal and maybe a nap. - Dravecky (talk) 23:15, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Great job on those. We've still got to discuss the sub-categories, though. Minnesota probably has a few too many, for example. JPG-GR (talk) 00:34, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

 Done Texas is done, a massive unsorted list. The NPR list and New York are done as well. A couple lines in C# and WP:AWB made quick work of it all.--Rtphokie (talk) 01:29, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/WKEL-FM

Looks like another one is up for deletion. - NeutralHomer T:C 13:34, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

This one brings up another discussion, how notable is a station that isn't on the air (yet)? At what point of the process does it become notable? Mr mark taylor (talk) 14:26, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
I wrote that back in August, the station was supposed to be on-the-air right soon after that. So, it being a "future" station for a couple wouldn't be an issue. Obviously it didn't launch when it was supposed to. Are we supposed to foresee things when we write an article about something in the future? The station is notable, just not on-the-air. - NeutralHomer T:C 14:52, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
(edit conflict) As far as I can see, as long as the station has numerous and reliable third party sources, meet corporate notability guidelines, as well as a licence to broadcast - in the UK, licences are granted well before the station broadcasts (indeed licences being granted generate headlines for radio media websites), then these stations are notable enough for Wikipedia. Sadly, and I don't wish to criticise any one contributor to this, the reason why many of these articles are easy fodder for deletion nominations is that when articles are created or expanded, references for the information are not verified with references which can prove the importance of articles to exist as per notability guidelines. Preferably this should be done with in-line citations (see WP:CITE). This is why the crystal ball reasons are coming up for the nomination of the above article.
Another thought, if articles for future stations are being nominated, what about stations which have closed down and no longer broadcast? I hope we don't see a can of worms opening here. --tgheretford (talk) 16:25, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
It's notable if it's been covered in some depth by reliable media, right? I've added a couple of references to articles discussing WKEL-FM, the EMF, the controversy over this construction permit, and their plans for this station. This one is an easy strong keep, imho. - Dravecky (talk) 20:25, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

State Categorization

Should categorization by state be limited to the state where the station is licensed or should stations be categorized where they are heard? The Philadelphia market is a good example, stations are heard in Pennsylvania, New Jersey and sometimes more states. In the case of El Paso, Texas, stations licensed in Mexico can be heard in El Paso and vice versa. Question is, should these stations be in 1 category or multiple categories?--Rtphokie (talk) 16:08, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

From what I have seen, it is limited in the state where the station is licensed. - NeutralHomer T:C 16:17, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
In the station where it is licensed. However, there are also templates for market areas, which can cross state or national boundaries. Squidfryerchef (talk) 17:18, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
This makes sense.--Rtphokie (talk) 14:52, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/WGOT-LP

And the hits just keep on coming. Not quite as strong a case as the station above but a couple of the local program providers indicate that broadcasting will begin on December 31 so this AfD may wrap up just in time for the station to go on the air. (Ah, irony.) I've beefed up the article a bit but help with that and participation in the discussion is strongly encouraged. (Oh, and Merry Christmas.) - Dravecky (talk) 02:33, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that AFD was withdrawn fast. Actually, I would not presume notability for an LPFM station, but suggest that it be merged into the state list of radio stations. But it looks like the article has enough material to stand on its own. Squidfryerchef (talk) 17:21, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

format specific navboxes

I'd like some other opinions on format specific navboxes like Template:Classic Rock PA. This seems a bit too much to me. Does anyone see enough value in this to keep it around?--Rtphokie 22:32, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

I think they have some value, if a format has enough of a presence in a state with a large enough station base to make a template worthwhile. I'd be interested in a "Country stations in Alabama" but don't think we need a "Sports talk in Idaho" template, for example. - Dravecky 01:25, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Please explain to me by "large enough". Is five the minimum? Best regards --PorchME (talk) 22:45, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Help Needed

OK, WUSH (formerlly WNRJ) was supposed to take the WUSH calls. For some reason they are listed in the FCC database as "WUFH". Do we switch the page to the current "title" or leave it as is and see if it is an FCC mistake? - NeutralHomer T:C 18:48, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

According to the editor of VARTV.com they are ID'ing as "WUSH Poquoson". - NeutralHomer T:C 19:08, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
I think there's no other real choice but to move it to WUFH with a re-direct at WUSH. If the FCC changes it to WUSH in the future then it's a simple matter of a few keystrokes to move it back and leave a redirect at WUFH. You might also put a bit of explanatory text at the top of the article to complement the note you have near the bottom to prevent well-intentioned errant changes back to WUSH. - Dravecky (talk) 19:13, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
I'd say leave it as WUSH for now, because they are already using the name WUSH. Could very well be a typo in the database. I'd give it some time to see if they correct it. Squidfryerchef (talk) 19:20, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Are they identifying as "Wush" or as "W-U-S-H"? It wouldn't be the first time a station calls themselves something that sounds like their callsign but isn't actually really their callsign. JPG-GR (talk) 19:22, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
"W-U-S-H". The editor of VARTV.com (who I have on IM as I type) emailed someone at Sinclair Communications (owner of WUSH) and they said they are WUSH. Squidfryerchef could be right, it could be a typo...or it could be a FCC goof, ala WOAY-TV.- NeutralHomer T:C 19:26, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
I would have no qualms against it being moved to WUFH (with the redirect) and moved back once the FCC corrects the mistake. - NeutralHomer T:C 19:28, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Being that even 100000watts.com is listing WUSH as WUFH, I have moved the page to WUFH until this whole thing gets cleared up....which probably won't be until after the New Year. - NeutralHomer T:C 13:00, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Station question

Can anybody review the notability of KEOS (Flagstaff, Arizona)? The article doesn't list the station's actual broadcast frequency, so as a Canadian with only limited knowledge of the American radio industry, I have no way of tracking down whether it should actually become a redirect to a current call sign in the Flagstaff market or not. Bearcat 23:09, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

The station became KZKZ on 1981-09-24 and KVNA on 1986-07-15. If a source can be developed for the contents of the current article, it should be merged into KVNA, otherwise delete as unverifiable. (There should be a source for this information, such as old newspaper articles, directory listings, and ephemera issued by the station; this would probably take someone in the Flagstaff area to identify, probably through a local library or historical society.) 121a0012 00:59, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
KEOS is in College Station, Texas. --Jjc104 (talk) 00:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
I did find an article on KEOS in Flagstaff as AM 690, which is now defunct. Here's the source: http://las-solanas.com/arsa/stations_item.php?rsid=865
--Jjc104 (talk) 00:42, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Roanoke Rapids Section?

I was poking around and I've noticed that while we have a Southside Virginia section to get those stations into a category, no such group exists for Roanoke Rapids, NC. It's led to disasters like WTRG. I was thinking about trying to put a template together for that area. Is there some Arbitron-related requirement, or can that be done? Should it be done? TripEricson (talk) 11:12, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it should. You can include the stations from Emporia and add both NC and VA state templates. - NeutralHomer T:C 13:32, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Done. I've created the template and run through and added the appropriate boxes to each linked page. Later on I may make pages for WEVA/WHFD/WNCM/WYTT but I definitely plan to clean up WTRG somewhat. Don't let that stop anyone else from jumping in if you want; there's plenty of stuff to do! TripEricson (talk) 18:51, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
I've added a few of the infobox and structural basics plus a couple of references to the WTRG article. I've recently discovered that the online Broadcasting & Cable archives can be a useful source of info as well as a handy reliable source for any radio article. - Dravecky (talk) 00:07, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

This sounds a little too much like "we have some stations not included in any geo templates, so let's just make one," and that worries me. JPG-GR (talk) 03:57, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Why's it a problem? Every station is technically somewhere, and in this case, there's a decent number of stations targeting Roanoke Rapids and until I put it together, there was no recognition of it on Wikipedia. I'm just trying to get the areas I live in and near straightened up a little bit. TripEricson (talk) 04:57, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Trip, you are doing just fine. Everything worries JPG. I will work on the rest of those stations today. (got caught up playing with the new "toys") - NeutralHomer T:C 16:10, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Well, if NH gives it his blessing, it'll survive, since it's in his area of stations that he owns. JPG-GR (talk) 19:24, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
Alright you two, I know Christmas is technically over but Santa has already started his list for next year. Be nice.--Rtphokie (talk) 19:31, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
/sighs/ - NeutralHomer T:C 19:46, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

planned stations

There have been a couple of concerns raised recently about articles associated with stations not yet on the air. WP:NOT#CRYSTAL is running up against "I thought all radio stations are automatically notable". Plans change and the "go-live" date gets pushed back in some cases. I wonder how many construction permits get issued and never get on the air.

Some thoughts about determining the notability of these stations.

  • possession of a construction permit does not provide instant notability.
  • references (preferable with a planned air date) should be provided to assert it's notability (and the FCC construction permit doesn't count)
  • all planned stations should be categorized into Category:Planned radio stations in the United States, once the station goes live, it should be removed from that category. If it stays there for more than 3 months it should be considered for deletion.

Also, is it time to add a notability section to WP:WPRS, at least as a reference? It could be useful in these AFD discussions.--Rtphokie (talk) 15:14, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

There's actually an essay in progress about this very topic at WP:Notability (media). We're trying to lay down some ground rules about when a media outlet is more likely than not to be found notable. We should probably avoid terms like "inherently" or "automatically" notable because it stirs up too much controversy. I'm on the fence about keeping these articles, but one point I can make is even if the station didn't go on the air, some other station would snap up that spot and the work we did on the first station would become part of the history of the second station. Squidfryerchef (talk) 17:52, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
There's no sense in adding a notability section to WP:WPRS as any notability rules established by WP:WPRS don't amount to a hill of beans. Notability is decided by the greater project, not by a specialized area. JPG-GR (talk) 18:00, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Eventually it may be promoted to a guideline, not an essay. It was originally a proposed guidline ( it might still be tagged as such ) but most of us are more or less happy with the way it is. But if it does become a guideline it will have pull. But guideline or not, we need something to explain notability arguments related to broadcasting because many of the men of letters here on Wikipedia seem to think anyone can start their own radio station. Squidfryerchef (talk) 18:23, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
WP:CRYSTAL does not prohibit verifiable content related to the future; it prohibits unsourced speculation. If a planned radio station is properly sourced (the license details, etc.) and doesn't start speculating about details that haven't been confirmed yet, then it's a valid article topic and not a CRYSTAL violation. Bearcat (talk) 18:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Rock the categories

I just spent a few hours cleaning up the by-format categories after discovering, to my surprise, that there was only one article in Category:Album Oriented Rock radio stations. Now there are four. The badly-named Category:Alternative radio stations now has a whopping three articles. Should these be moved to join the 24 articles in the generic Category:Rock radio stations in the United States (they're all US stations) and the categories removed? Or does anybody have a useful strategy for adding proper category tags to the hundreds of station articles lack same in hopes of finding more AOR and alt-rock stations? - Dravecky (talk) 03:23, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd say put them all in the main category for now. In the event more stations ever appear that could be fit in these subcategories, they can always be recreated. JPG-GR (talk) 07:14, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
I doubt the utility of categorizing music stations by format unless you can find an impartial, third-party source for determining the set of recognized formats. Many stations will give positioners when asked for their formats, and music stations can "report" to whatever chart or charts their management desires. The only outfit I know of which makes an independent judgment when assigning formats is Radio Journal/100000watts.com, and those are both for-pay services that are not particularly accessible to WP editors. (They still ask the station what their format is, but they then translate that into one or more of a few dozen standard formats identified in their database. Disclaimer: I know people who work for Critical Mass Media, the company that publishes both.) 121a0012 (talk) 07:23, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
The challenge when it comes to categorizing by radio format is that radio stations themselves don't necessarily use the standard term for their format as their own self-descriptor. I've lost count of the number of times that I've had to undo edits which changed a radio station's format from active rock to "classic and new rock" or from adult hits to "hits of the 70s, 80s, 90s and today", which are not the names of radio formats, but descriptive statements about the formats. Bearcat (talk) 17:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Merry Christmas (or the winter holiday of your choice)

It's so hard to shop for an entire WikiProject so this Christmas I decided to take {{US Virgin Islands Radio}} which had one lonely blue link in a field of red and make it my holiday project. Now that template is overhauled, every station has a useful stub/start article complete with infobox and (where available) a station logo, and we're one step closer to galactic domination. Or, um, at least one step closer to having the radio stations of the US Territories all blue-linked. (You're next, Puerto Rico!) Here's hoping your holiday is a safe and happy one. - Dravecky (talk) 15:03, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

To you as well Dravecky :) - NeutralHomer T:C 15:54, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
For what it's worth, if and when you get to Puerto Rico, use a bit of caution — just by comparing List of radio stations in U.S. Territories to the PR stub category, I caught at least a dozen redlinks for which we already had articles at variant titles. I can't speak to how complete the PR template is at present, but the list still contains a lot of redlinks — although some may be translators which should just exist as redirects, and others may still be variant titles for articles that we already have. Bearcat (talk) 10:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
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