Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology/Archive 2015

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Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

RfC abbreviation / shortcut (on Commons)

c:Commons talk:WikiProject Heraldry#Spelling coat of arms abbreviation → User: Perhelion  15:50, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Scottish Officers of Arms Extraordinary

I am looking to find consensus on the recording of Heralds Extraordinary and Pursuivants Extraordinary in Scotland. Presently the former positions are granted to retiring Lyons or eminent heralds following their service "in ordinary", while the latter are short, fixed-term appointments made to address some specific need. Presently the appointments of the former kind are the three previous Lyons and Ross Herald Extraordinary, Charles Burnett, who was Ross for a number of decades. Examples of the latter would include Elizabeth Roads' initial appointment as Linlithgow Pursuivant Extraordinary for the creation of the Canadian Heraldic Authority and the recent service of Peter Dewar and Liam Devlin as Falkland and Linlithgow for HM The Queen's "Thistle Week" in July 2014.

My view is that while appointments heralds extraordinary should be recorded on the page for the relevant office, as they are held for a number of years, if not for life, whereas temporary appointments as pursuivants should not. My principal reasons for this would be because it is difficult to keep on top of who has served as pursuivants extraordinary because the appointments are not gazetted and because there should be some distinction (particularly for Falkland and Linlithgow) as to who has served in those offices "in ordinary" and who has not.

I'd be grateful for the thoughts of others on this matter. Thanks. Mark Hamid (talk) 10:53, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

A question for the Esteemed Gentlepeople

Is the Z flag a saltire? Or not, since the "x" has no thickness? Herostratus (talk) 20:44, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

It's not. It would however be termed "(party) per saltire" in heraldic language. Vexillologically, it would be "diagonally quartered" or similar. SiBr₄ (talk) 21:08, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! --Herostratus (talk) 03:15, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Oldest municipal arms?

Is the coat of arms of Košice the oldest municipal heraldic arms? Please give your view at Talk:Coat of arms of Košice! Snowsuit Wearer (talk|contribs) 09:38, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Heraldic visitation

The Heraldic visitation is currently listed as a Good Article. Whole sections are unreferenced. It'd be a shame to demote it. Does anyone have the expertise and time to bring it back up to par? Sotakeit (talk) 16:10, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Flag of Mexico FAR

I have nominated Flag of Mexico for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:35, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

"ensign" also needs some image work

In the image gallery in Ensign, the ensign of Sri Lanka is only about half the size of the others. It's not a simple fix; see Talk:Ensign#Sri Lanka. To discuss this, please {{Ping}} me. --Thnidu (talk) 00:36, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

@Thnidu: The Sri Lankan ensign in that gallery is very nearly the same size as the Red Ensign, just not quite as high because of its slightly more unequal proportions—at any rate all these images are the same width. Could it be that you’re not including the white field in your estimation of the SL ensign’s size?—Odysseus1479 01:04, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

@Odysseus1479: It was more complex than that, as GrindtXX informed me, but I've got it fixed now; details at Talk:Ensign#Sri Lanka. --Thnidu (talk) 22:45, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

"ensign" needs definition

Glossary of vexillology uses the word "ensign" without defining it. No vexillologue myself, I find this vexing, and hereby request repair of the vexperts. Details are on the Talk page there, at define "ensign". To discuss this, please {{Ping}} me. --Thnidu (talk) 01:58, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

@Thnidu: There is a reasonable definition/discussion at Ensign, and I have linked that page at the first mention here as an interim measure. I agree that a fuller definition here would be in order, though there's no terribly obvious place for it in the present structure. What is needed is a whole new section on types of flag - also including "banner", "standard", "pennon", "vexilloid", "gonfalon", etc. GrindtXX (talk) 11:04, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

@GrindtXX: Section of what? Surely not here... unless these are used as ensigns and there's a reason for including them here. --Thnidu (talk) 04:57, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

Flag of Australia FAR

I have nominated Flag of Australia for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:56, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Coat of arms of George Washington

The naming of the article Coat of arms of George Washington is under discussion, see talk:Coat of arms of George Washington -- 67.70.32.20 (talk) 04:58, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

User adding flags

User:History of Persia is adding flags and has started using this as a source.[1] I was hoping someone in the Heraldry and vexillology project would be able to tell whether that site is a reliable source. Thanks! --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:32, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

I would say not in the WP sense. The author appears to be knowledgeable and conscientious, not to mention quite a competent illustrator, but as self-published by an amateur I think the site falls short of the mark. While I have no reason to doubt the content is reasonably well sourced, no references are provided for verification. Moreover, regarding the historical flags there seems to be little explanation, if any, of research difficulties (ambiguities, contradictions among sources, &c.) or where artistic licence may have been exercised in reconstruction of details.—Odysseus1479 06:36, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Suggested merge regarding the coat of arms of Lappajärvi

It has been suggested that Coat of arms of Lappajärvi be merged into Lappajärvi. Please give your thoughts on the talk page of the coat of arms article. Snowsuit Wearer (talk|contribs) 13:31, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Blazoning historical arms: ok or not?

I know this question has been asked - but I still don't feel as if a good answer has been reached. Is writing blazons for historical coats of arms of former kings and queens or such similar persons considered taboo? I know some consider it original research, but at the same time I see blazon request all over this very WP's archives, suggesting that people do it anyway. If I'm sitting here, armed with my copy of A.C. Fox-Davies Complete Guide To Heraldry, and attempt to correctly blazon the coat of arms of Queen Consort Anne Boleyn (heaven help me if I try to blazon that mess), is this considered original research and therefore should not be done? Many, many of these historical coats of arms are not currently listed with any blazons and I would be more than willing to write some of them. Peeteygirl (talk) 18:29, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Well, Peeteygirl, even if I have no doubt you could come up with good blazons of old arms, the arms should have an old official blazon from when it was granted. That blazon is the one we should use. But if we can't find it, I see nothing wrong in doing as you suggests, as long as you are clearly stating in the text that this is not the original blazon but a blazon based on the one or other painting of the arms. Snowsuit Wearer (talk|contribs) 22:07, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Bonnie Blue Flag needs help

This article is about a blue flag with a single white star at the center. It was an unofficial Confederate flag in 1861, and its name comes from a popular song published that year.

A similar or identical flag was used in 1810 to represent the Republic of West Florida created by Anglo filibusters in part of Spanish West Florida. (The "republic" was annexed by the USA within a few weeks.) Some pop-history writers have referred to the 1810 flag as the "Bonnie Blue," by merely asserting continuity with the Confederate-era flag. In 2006 the Louisiana state legislature passed a resolution naming the Bonnie Blue flag "the official flag of the Republic of West Florida Historic Region" (i.e., the tourism marketing name for the Florida Parishes).

I'm asking for help editing this article because I'm fed up and need a short break.

This article has been subjected to anonymous reverts insisting that the Bonnie Blue Flag is the flag of the Republic of West Florida. It has gotten to the point that most info about the Civil War flag has been purged from the article, while trivia about other similar-looking flags has been included instead. These include the Flag of Somalia and Flag of Vietnam.

For comparison, here is a May 2014 diff to compare with the latest. — ℜob C. alias ALAROB 21:32, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Rainbow flag GAR

Rainbow flag, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. sst✈ 13:10, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Pernus coat of arms

The IP who created this called it in an edit summary "Creation of English version of an already existing (censored) article." but I have no idea what this means. I've pruned it mercilessly as most of the material about people and castles, etc - see my edit summaries. It still seems a mess. Doug Weller (talk) 17:49, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Hello members

I want to introduce myself to such a fun project! I would very much like to contribute my vector creation skills to reduce the many inaccurate images attached to blazons I see on Wikipedia. Please notify me right away if you see any of these false representations of blazons and I will be happy to create a "free licensed", faithful reproduction. --Xavier (talk) 05:01, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Blazon question

I have nearly completed the County Longford blazon but, I am not sure about one detail. The blazon reads:

• "Per pale azure and or a castle of two towers counterchanged on a chief wavy per pale of the second and of the first a hound courant also counterchanged"

The detail I get confused on is this.

1. Does the chief get a horizontal wavy parted per fess (in other words, does the chief get a horizontal wavy at the bottom)?
2. Or does the chief get a vertical wavy strictly within the chief parted per pale?
3. Or does the entire field get the wavy parted per pale?

--Xavier (talk) 04:12, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

The conclusion I came to is number 2. --Xavier (talk) 04:18, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

I did some more looking around on google and it seems there are two versions running rampant! Well, I still think the reference is correct, and from the other sources I could find it appears that conclusion number 1 is correct! --Xavier (talk) 05:30, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) As I read it “wavy” refers only to the partition line between the chief and the field. I’m having trouble parsing parts of your numbered explanations, so I’m not sure if my mental picture matches any of them. In ordinary language: a straight vertical line divides the shield in half, and a wavy horizontal line separates the upper third, with the hound, from the lower two-thirds, with the castle; the left-hand halves (to the viewer, viz the dexter) of the field & the dog, and the right-hand halves of the chief & the castle, are all blue, while the opposite pieces are all gold.—Odysseus1479 06:17, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

@Odysseus1479: Yes got it! Thank you! you are right, the wavy is at the bottom of the chief. --Xavier (talk) 07:59, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

@Odysseus1479: Well all finished! Have I matched the blazon?
--Xavier (talk) 11:40, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Excellent job! Your emblazon matches the blazon perfectly. — Jkudlick ^tc_s 11:39, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

@Jkudlick: Why thank you. --Xavier (talk) 11:41, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

I think it is time to update that long overdue incorrect arms on the County Longford page. --Xavier (talk) 11:43, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

All done! Now I will find more arms to fix! --Xavier (talk) 11:54, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Coat of arms in question

The coat of arms for Pope John XXII is in question. Please join the discussion here. --Xavier (talk) 02:50, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Which flag did Transnistria use between 1990 and 2000?

The post-2000 flag of Transnistria.

Hello,

Article Flag of Transnistria states that the current flag was adopted in 2000, using a version of the 1952-1990 flag used by the Moldavian SSR. Transnistria split from Moldova in 1990.

The article does not mention which flag was used between 1990 and 2000. Is anyone able to put this information in the article? Answers welcome at Talk:Flag of Transnistria#1990-2000 flag. Place Clichy (talk) 13:49, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Claude Le Laboureur

Claude Le Laboureur wrote books about French heraldry. I know nothing about this topic, but some of you might be able to expand his page with in-line referenced info.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:18, 22 December 2015 (UTC)