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Open season on qfing me

There is an overzealous posse of editors quickfailing my articles. I don't think all of them should be getting CUP points. The latest and by far the most egregious is Talk:Michael Schofield (American football)/GA2. This article is better than the last GA promotion in sports that was not one of my own articles (Jerry Atkinson (American football). It has been qfed twice within a span of hours. There are several other QFs that are quite dubious. I feel the new sport on WP is redefining proximity to WP:WIAGA for the purposes of failing my articles.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:18, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Please keep in mind WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS . ‍  Elias 🪐  (dreaming of Saturn; talk here) 08:21, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Quickfails do not receive points, TonyTheTiger. Would you like to apologise for your explicit and implied accusations? Or, I suppose you could nominate another bunch of articles you haven't edited in close to a decade and act surprised and persecuted when most of them are low-quality. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 08:45, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
People have been getting points for quickfails. Some of them are quite proximal to WIAGA, like the one above.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:57, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
You have been overzealously nominating a huge amount of underprepared articles, apparently in a push for WikiCup points. This kind of behaviour is bad for the WikiCup and its reputation in the general community. —Kusma (talk) 11:03, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Not all of the quickfails are beyond the proximal zone to WP:WIAGA. Where that zone lies is subjective. But I have submitted those that I think are within appropriate proximity to WIAGA.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:01, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
The community can handle a few underprepared nominations and reviewers can then help push them over the line. It is unreasonable to expect that the community can handle a dozen underprepared nominations from a single nominator. You are currently getting an unexpectedly low amount of backlash for this, so let me be clear: you, TTT, are doing something that is not in the spirit of the WikiCup, and in my view the WikiCup coordinators should think about whether you should be competing at all. The WikiCup is about writing new and improved articles, it is not a place where you score points for bulk nominating your work from a decade ago. —Kusma (talk) 12:58, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Tony, come on. are you seriously saying you think Mekia Cox (my review here) was even slightly close to meeting the GA criteria? or United Nations Honour Flag (review here)? or Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, for which Epicgenius removed the nomination because it was so far from meeting the criteria? sawyer * he/they * talk 18:03, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Not going to lie, this affair has definitely made me question why I'm participating in the Cup. If it's going to incentivise people to bludgeon the process with bad articles that they haven't worked on in years, just to scrounge imaginary internet points, that reflects very poorly on the competition. This isn't why I edit... --Grnrchst (talk) 16:58, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Most participants are not like that. I am not playing to win, and I doubt I am the only one. Overall, the Cup results in a decent improvement of the encyclopaedia every year. —Kusma (talk) 17:23, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Have you considered that your nominations are being quick-failed because the articles don't meet the GA criteria? Skyshiftertalk 11:56, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
QFiing is not for failing articles that do not meet WP:WIAGA. It is for failing articles that are "long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria". They don't have to meet WIAGA, they have to be close.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:05, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Yes, your quick-failed nominations were a "long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria" (more than one in most cases) Skyshiftertalk 13:11, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Kusma, I couldn't disagree with you more. The coordinators shouldn't "think about" whether Tony should be competing – they should immediately remove him from the competition, and ban him from entering in the future until he demonstrates he understands overwhelming volunteer editors with mass GA nominations, many with obvious issues (this one I quickfailed just now had a large unsourced and promotional section), is rude and disruptive. – Teratix ₵ 14:34, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
This is not the first time Tony has sought to disrupt other WP processes for his own gain in the WikiCup. Back in 2011, the then-judges @J Milburn and The ed17: testified at ANI that there was "a long-term pattern of questionable actions from TTT", who had "caused issues at WP:FPC, WP:VPC and caused problems with mass nominations at DYK (which reflected very poorly on the WikiCup, in which he was participating)". I think that editors are unanimous that Tony's attitude is "creating a negative atmosphere", which, per Wikipedia:WikiCup/Scoring, is enough to remove him from the Cup. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:56, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Given my previous involvement in bringing up this issue on Tony's talk page, I'll refrain from making a unilateral decision on this. I think Cwmhiraeth and Frostly should be apprised of this, however, as this recent conduct does seem poor enough to be disqualifying. Epicgenius (talk) 15:24, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
I concur with Epicgenius' view of the situation. TonyTheTiger, please slow down and ensure that the articles you are nominating are of sufficient quality, and that you have the capacity to adequately respond to concerns brought up in all your GANs. — Frostly (talk) 01:54, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
Looking at the quickfails, some of the articles would be close to meeting the GA criteria if they were revised and updated. However, there is no obligation for a reviewer to pass an article, or place it on hold, if it is a long way from meeting any one of the GA criteria. To pick just one example, the review of 1000M by Teratix above, that article does qualify for a quickfail because of the existence of an unsourced section, promotional text, and the fact that there doesn't seem to be a history section at all (therefore also failing GA's broadness criterion).
Multiple people have attempted to tell you this on your talk page, but it seems you have not heeded their advice. I'm sorry Tony, but you really should go over your remaining nominations to check whether the remaining criteria. Otherwise, the coordinators will be having a conversation about your continued participation in the WikiCup. Epicgenius (talk) 14:59, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
I did not see mention of a history section at Talk:1000M/GA1. I addressed the problematic content.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:10, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
I just quickfailed 1000M for the second time. It is an article about a skyscraper nearing completion in 2024. The most recent source cited is from 2020. The second most recent source cited is from 2019. The skyscraper's height was changed in the meantime (for a second time, apparently), and the architect died... This just isn't OK, TTT isn't a complete newbie but is asking to be treated like one. —Kusma (talk) 19:56, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
As stated above, Talk:1000M/GA1 did not say any of this in the review. It only stated that it had problematic content.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:13, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
But if you've received a quick fail it's a comment by the reviewer that the article needs a lot of work. You took that feedback and... resubmitted?! -- asilvering (talk) 21:16, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Well, you see TonyTheTiger only has "one pair of hands"—no point getting the "one brain" in to actually think about what they're doing. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:45, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
I responded to the entirety of the stated concerns. I am not a mind-reader. In hindsight, it is easy to say you should have understood there were other issues.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:48, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
It is not the reviewer's job to give you a checklist of everything that is wrong in your article, but it is your job to present an article that you think complies with the criteria. Are you saying you need to be told to check sources newer than 2020 for articles about a building finished in 2024? —Kusma (talk) 21:41, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
My concern is that, with the most recent nominations that have been quickfailed, Tony is only putting in the barest amount of effort toward resolving any issues that have been raised. The 1000M article is a good example of this - the nomination was failed for unsourced info, so it was then renominated after a few edits that removed the issue. However, the other points raised (including the presence of out-of-date info and the lack of a history section) were still not addressed before nomination. At this point, I do not think this is just a CUP problem but a WP:GAN problem at large. It's a shame, as Tony is clearly capable of creating well-written articles, but we may have a larger problem on our hands with these most recent nominations. – Epicgenius (talk) 20:02, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
User:Epicgenius, the review (Talk:1000M/GA1) said nothing about history and out of date content or I would have addressed it. I addressed the stated concern.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:51, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Quickfails don't cover every part of the article. That's what makes them "quick"-fails, it's for when there is too much to reasonably cover in an exhaustive review. Asking a reviewer to describe every individual thing wrong with an article is unreasonable; it's unloading your work and responsibility fully onto them. You don't have to be a mind-reader, you just need to know what the GA criteria is and whether your article fully covers it. I never nominate anything unless I have read it over closely and corrected any mistakes. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 21:56, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
@TonyTheTiger, it's not about merely addressing the concerns that are brought up in the GA review. It is the nominator's responsibility to make sure that the article meets WP:GACR, and that the information in question is in the article, before it's nominated for GA. Otherwise we would have a situation where people repeatedly nominate poor-quality articles for GA just so they could get feedback. – Epicgenius (talk) 21:57, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Unfortunately I agree that TonyTheTiger should be removed from the competition as it is clear the Cup is directly providing motivation for these nominations that multiple independent volunteers have deemed inadequate. Other action may also be needed. — Bilorv (talk) 15:28, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
i also agree that Tony should be disqualified from the Cup. this whole trainwreck has completely disrupted our processes over at GAN, and enough is enough. sawyer * he/they * talk 18:11, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
@TonyTheTiger you would do well to respond to the comments here. sawyer * he/they * talk 19:33, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
I agree TonyTheTiger should be disqualified from the WikiCup because it has incentivized him to nominate of dozens of extremely low-quality articles for GA, disrupting the process. Skyshiftertalk 18:22, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
I note Tony's observation near the top of this section that People have been getting points for quickfails – I agree with him that this is problematic in itself, and I think those whom have claimed GANR points based on quickfails may wish to consider removing those GANRs from their submissions pages. That being said, the conduct of Tony himself is quite obviously the main issue here. I am dismayed by what I perceive as a lack of accountability to the community for his behavior this week pertaining to his mass nominations. I have seen him refer to 2010 as the last time he participated in the WikiCup; as AirshipJungleman29 refers to above, Tony disrupted the WikiCup back then by causing issues at DYK similar to what he has been doing at GAN recently. I unfortunately must agree with the above editors calling for him to be disqualified from the WikiCup. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 19:50, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
having discussed the issue of quickfails getting points with @Epicgenius (courtesy ping), quickfails are generally not eligible for points at all, because they're usually by nature very short & incomplete. the majority of quickfails do not get points, and i'd like to see Tony give some examples of quickfails that have gotten points which shouldn't have. that said, the judges have the discretion to give points for quickfails which are more complete than usual, and this happens occasionally. sawyer * he/they * talk 20:02, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
I should note that in the concurrent backlog drive at GAN, QFs do receive points. -- asilvering (talk) 20:23, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
I should note that WP:WC/SCO does say Only reviews of a sufficient length will be counted; quick fails and very short reviews will generally not be awarded points. However, the judges may still choose to award points to GAN fails of sufficient length. This rule exists to prevent contestants from writing 2-sentence quick fails and claiming points for these. – Epicgenius (talk) 20:04, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Thank you both for clarifying. I've struck the first two sentences of my above post. Dylan620 (he/him • talk • edits) 20:18, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
This is getting ridiculous. Overzealous by what metric? A QF means the reviewer thinks it would take a large amount of work to bring up to the GA standard. If you're getting QFs back to back on the same article in a number of hours, how are we to take this as anything other than contempt for the process? I QF'd one of yours, Humble and Kind. What even is this? How could anyone who's been through the GA process even once think that this is within striking distance of GA? -- asilvering (talk) 20:32, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Honestly, I don't find it much different in quality than my 2022 GA for "Sheesh!", except for the one current tag.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:41, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
I'm gobsmacked. -- asilvering (talk) 20:45, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
then perhaps "Sheesh!" shouldn't have been passed at GAN either. sawyer * he/they * talk 20:46, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
It's significantly better than Humble and Kind - have a look for yourself. -- asilvering (talk) 20:47, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
i did look, and i agree it's significantly better, although i'd probably place it on hold if i were reviewing it today - regardless, i don't know how anyone could look at Humble and Kind and think it's more than start-class. sawyer * he/they * talk 20:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
I know I'm going off on a tangent here, but to be fair to Tony, Humble and Kind is substantial enough to be a C-class article rather than start-class. However, it would still need work to be improved to GA-class, especially considering the active maintenance tag and the brevity of the sections that do exist. For example, four of the sections are three sentences or fewer; it may be worth either expanding these paragraphs or combining the sections. It also does not look like there's been any significant work on this article since 2017, when the maintenance tag in question was added. – Epicgenius (talk) 21:55, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
I think this is on the border but perhaps Start-class still. I imagine that sources exist to significantly expand the song's composition and recording, musical analysis of the major versions and other relevant information. — Bilorv (talk) 23:30, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
WP:RATER thinks it's C-class but isn't dead sure. I'd rate it as Start according to the WP:MILHIST criteria. But at any rate, no one's here saying it's a "B-class or higher". -- asilvering (talk) 23:37, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
perhaps i'm stricter than most haha, but assessments below GA are pretty arbitrary anyways. the single-sentence section with a nearly 7-year-old expansion tag is really what gets me. sawyer * he/they * talk 23:46, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
  • I am trying to respond to articles. I only have one pair of hands. I have been responding to Heath Irwin, Michael Schofield (American football), Kenny Demens and 1000M. I am willing to relook at all articles more than say 3 years old.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:38, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
    I only have one pair of hands. Have you considered not having 62 concurrent nominations? – Hilst [talk] 20:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
    • I have had dozens of articles at WP:GAN at the same time in the past without problems, so I did not expect to have such a big disagreement on proximity to WP:WIAGA.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:04, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
      it's not a disagreement on proximity to the criteria. i don't know the quality of your past mass nominations, but many of the articles you're nominating this time are barely scraping start or C class. you need to listen to the feedback you're receiving, and stop nominating articles. your consistent "i don't hear that" behavior is extraordinarily frustrating, disruptive, and a waste of the community's time and effort. sawyer * he/they * talk 21:11, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
      Yes, just like how in 2011 you had dozens of nominations at DYK and Featured Sounds, and how in 2011 you consistently renominated articles at FAC while putting the barest minimum effort into working on them between nominations, and how you got TBANned for that, and how you somehow forgot that the community considered it disruptive TonyTheTiger? You are the primary reason that the WikiCup is looked down upon in many parts of Wikipedia, and now you want to do it all again. Entitled and selfish. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:54, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
    You need to stop nominating so many articles. It looks as if you are nominating articles that need quite a lot of work. You need to do that work, not ask your reviewers to do it for you or spell out for you what exactly needs doing. GAN reviewers are not there to help you gain WikiCup points. In many cases like 1000M, it is obvious that the article needs work, yet you nominated it for GA twice. If you are so out of touch, you have to listen to the feedback you receive, not make your own random rules ("I am willing to relook at all articles more than say 3 years old" -- you need to look at all the articles and fix all of them). You should withdraw all your recent nominations, fix the articles, then nominate them again (if you get the chance; I think it is not unlikely you will end up topic banned). —Kusma (talk) 20:52, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
    Update: Three of these articles (Schofield, Demens and 1000M) have been quickfailed a second time. – Hilst [talk] 21:55, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
    Tony has just readded a highly promotional section of 1000M that he had previously removed from the article. it's not unsourced anymore, but it's still not acceptable at all in terms of tone and directly copies the cited source - why ??? this is ridiculous sawyer * he/they * talk 22:02, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
    Wow, that is hilarious! I tag the article for close paraphrasing, and then Tony decides that the best thing to do is add a load of close paraphrasing back into the article? What is this guy doing?? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:05, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
Close paraphasing
Sources Closely paraphrased Wikipedia article
an acoustically engineered music performance room overlooking Grant Park, a yoga room with a wall-sized video screen for an immersive experience of doing yoga or meditating in (for example) a mountaintop setting, and a golf simulator room where the concierge can set up tee times at virtual versions of some of the world's top courses

an outdoor swimming pool, cabanas, cookout areas and gardens

Club 1000, an adjacent full-service bar and lounge, features a sky terrace with telescopes and sculpture benches that overlook the lake.

Amenities include an acoustically engineered music performance room overlooking Grant Park, a yoga room with a wall-sized video screen for an immersive experience of doing yoga or meditating, and a golf simulator room where the concierge can set up tee times at virtual versions of some of the world's top courses.

There will also be Himalayan salt therapy room and an outdoor swimming pool with cabanas, a cookout area and gardens.

On the 72nd floor, Club 1000, a full-service bar and lounge, will feature a sky terrace with telescopes and sculpture benches that overlook Lake Michigan.

  • I'm getting a little off-topic here, but this is a major improvement compared with what was there before. I certainly would not quick fail the article if that section were the only problem (I would've said something like Amenities include golf simulators, yoga, and performance spaces, but the bigger issue is the close paraphrasing mentioned above. Just something to keep in mind if this were sent back to GAN. – Epicgenius (talk) 22:09, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
    yeah it's absolutely better than the original paragraph, but if one is going to improve an article, one should follow our P&Gs about close paraphrasing/copying sources and promotional tone. tony has been here for over 17 years and has no shortage of GAs & FAs; he clearly knows how to write good content and put in the required effort. sawyer * he/they * talk 22:14, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
  • There is currently an ANI thread about whether Tony should be topic banned from the WikiCup. Many of the participants in this thread have already commented there, but I am noting it here for posterity. – Epicgenius (talk) 18:54, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
    Also noting that, due to the complaints elucidated both here and at ANI about Tony's conduct, I've withdrawn him from the Cup. – Epicgenius (talk) 13:53, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

The Core Contest Returns!

Hi all—The Core Contest returns! Leaving this here:

The Core Contest—Wikipedia's most exciting contest—returns again this year from April 15 to May 31. The goal: to improve vital or other core articles, with a focus on those in the worst state of disrepair. There is £300 of prize money divided among editors who provide the "best additive encyclopedic value". Signups are open now. Cheers from the judges, Femke, Casliber, Aza24. – Aza24 (talk) 23:30, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Competitive

After reviewing previous years this years cup seems to be far more competitive, for instance the distance between the highest losing score and lowest passing score is 3 points. 32 to 31 is also 3 points and 31 to 30/29 is four points. Last round a minimum of 30 points was needed to pass. This round only 11 people haven't scored. Kusma currently ranked six is one GAR away from reaching the top five. Thought this was interesting anyone else notice any fun details?. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 19:26, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

As of now, it takes 75 points to qualify for round 3. If the round ended today, this would be tied for the 7th highest amount of points required to make it to round 3. I started on a couple tables in the beginning of February for Wikicup stats: User:Hey man im josh/Wikicup stats. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:31, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
As of now 87 points. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 22:50, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Disqualification

@Epicgenius, Frostly, and Cwmhiraeth: I don't think that it is a good idea to mark disqualifications as withdrawn. It makes it seem like the removal was voluntary. I would recommend using the eliminated designation instead. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:06, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

I second this idea Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 23:24, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
I explained this at the ANI discussion, but I use the red background for competitors who have been disqualified at the end of the round, because they didn't receive enough points. The purple background is for competitors who have been removed in the middle of the round, either voluntarily or not. In either case, the net effect is the same; Tony will not be progressing to the next round of the Cup. – Epicgenius (talk) 23:25, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
In that case, maybe call it "Withdrawn or disqualified" in the key to remove the ambiguity? QuicoleJR (talk) 23:58, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
Sure, I can do that. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:31, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Yes, that sounds reasonable. — Frostly (talk) 22:07, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
I agree with the withdrawn background, as it separates participants removed for logistical reasons (voluntary or involuntary withdrawal) and participants eliminated at the end of the round based on points. — Bilorv (talk) 23:27, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Requesting to withdraw

Hello! I'm disappointed to write this, but I'd like to withdraw from the cup, please: despite trying my best, in the latest months my personal schedule definitely prevented me from participating as much as I'd like it, so I think I should just leave...

Nevertheless, I wish good luck to everyone who is still competing! Oltrepier (talk) 14:21, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry to hear that, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia and your participation in the cup. I have now marked you as withdrawn. – Epicgenius (talk) 00:55, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

End date

So I am a little confused on when the cut off for promoting stuff is. So the rules make it seem that anything promoted before April 28th is to be promoted this round and can be claimed on the 28th. I have a DYK set to run on the 28th would that be elegible for round 2 or 3? Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 16:14, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Round two, I believe. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:42, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
@OlifanofmrTennant, yes, anything promoted on the 28th would still be eligible for round 2. – Epicgenius (talk) 20:19, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Thanks, however I just relized that its running on the 29th and not the 28th so the whole question is moot. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 05:37, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
@Epicgenius: I listed the dyk on my page as it ran today, I was only given five points when I should have been awarded ten. The page is 9~~ bytes, 4k+ more then the size requirement for a bonus. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 18:25, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
@OlifanofmrTennant, the bot counts readable prose size. According to Xtools, the prose size is 3,740 bytes. The bot only awards the bonus to articles with more than 5,120 bytes of readable prose. – Epicgenius (talk) 18:34, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Older GA review

Judges, am I able to claim points this round for Talk:2023 UK Championship/GA1? I completed the initial review back at the end of March but the nominator didn't respond to any of my points, and I've just failed the article, as I see the nominator hasn't edited for over 20 days. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:22, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

@BennyOnTheLoose, I would say yes, since the review did not formally conclude until just before you posted. Epicgenius (talk) 19:54, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Thank you. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 08:13, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Request to withdraw

Hey, due to a variety of IRL commitments, I do not forsee myswlf having time to be able to participate much in the current round. As a result, I'd like to be marked as having withdrawn from this year's competition. It was a privilege to participate and I look forward to participating again next year. Sohom (talk) 16:14, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia and for competing in the Cup. I have now marked you as withdrawn. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:12, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

interwiki points.

I have not recived my interwiki bonus for DYKs on either Boom (4 + en) or The Devil's Chord (5 + en). I should recive 2 points for both. I know it's only two points but to quote a great man "There is no corner of my heart that I would not turn over for 5 2 points". Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 03:19, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

OlifanofmrTennant, as explained on the scoring page, the articles are not eligible for interwiki points because some of the other pages did not exist on 31 December. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:03, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
Oh thank you, I see that line now. Probably should reread the rules then. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 17:16, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Many points

I believe the bot errantly awarded me 9 bonus points for my DYK on Flemish bond. As the article is too short, a conversion of a redirect, and not on any other Wiki, I believe it does not fulfill any of the bonus point requirements. If possible, I'd like my score to reflect the accurate 5 point total. ~ Pbritti (talk) 01:13, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Pbritti, thanks for bringing this up. I've now adjusted the points for you. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:22, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
Pbritti, I appreciate your honesty! — Frostly (talk) 17:07, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Vami IV

I wonder. Could they be silently removed from the original list? I see no reason to see their name in scary red in a competition they will never win nor take part in. Just a thought. ——Serial Number 54129 22:52, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

@Serial Number 54129, are you asking if we should remove his name from Wikipedia:WikiCup or from Wikipedia:WikiCup/History/2024/Round 3? If you mean Wikipedia:WikiCup, we can do that. I'm going to reset everyone's points by tomorrow, so that shouldn't be a problem.
If you're asking us to remove his name from Wikipedia:WikiCup/History/2024/Round 3, that would be more awkward, as his name was kept there for record-keeping purposes. He never formally withdrew, and he did score points during Round 2. Rather than removing his name from the Round 3 page, we might have to come up with something else, such as using a different color for his name. – Epicgenius (talk) 00:25, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
Thanks Epicgenius, that's good—what you say about tomorrow or today is understood. I absolutely agree. If anyone agrees about anything currently, they may be a serial troublemaker. Cheers! ——Serial Number 54129 23:41, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
I think it's fine currently. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:42, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Recreated article — DYK scoring

I had Mercy Gilbert Medical Center undeleted to be rewritten and republished it. The article is 90% new material. Should it still qualify for an age bonus as a DYK based on the original date of publication, as the bot has handled it? Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 02:34, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

I think that in order to recive a bonus for existing in a year it must have been around for 51+% of that year. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 03:00, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
@Sammi Brie, in my view it would indeed be eligible for an age bonus. The article had been deleted for only about three months, and it was undeleted rather than rewritten from scratch. If we remove these three months from consideration, it's been in mainspace for the same amount of time as an article that was created in December 2011 and never deleted.
As long as you expanded this page fivefold from the undeleted version, I think it qualifies for the age multiplier. (On the other hand, had the article been rewritten from scratch rather than being undeleted, it would not be eligible as an expanded article, only as a new article.) Epicgenius (talk) 03:44, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
@Epicgenius It is indeed not a 5x — it was 2327 characters RPS before and is 3140 characters now. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 03:49, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
Oh, okay - I see now. This is a real gray area, since you moved this to mainspace (which would make this a "new article" under most circumstances), but it has undeleted history dating back to 2011. My thinking is that if it qualified for DYK as a new article, then it should be scored as a new article, and thus it wouldn't receive the age bonus. I'm going to ping @Cwmhiraeth and @Frostly for their feedback, but I'm leaning toward treating this as a new article without any age-based bonuses. Epicgenius (talk) 03:59, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
Epicgenius, thanks for the ping. I think that it would be best to treat this as a new article as well, given that the vast majority of the content is new material. Best, — Frostly (talk) 18:16, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

Co nominator finished a review before I looked at it

So my and another user have been working our way though GAing every episode of Doctor Who series 14. The review for "Rogue" was posted for under 24 hours before my Co-nom two. Can I claim points for this? While my name was on the review and I am the second highest contributor I didn't work on the review specifically. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 06:20, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

@OlifanofmrTennant, yes, if you're the co-nominator, you may claim points if you were a significant contributor. This version of the talkpage indicates that you were a co-nominator, so this should be fine regardless if you worked on the review. – Epicgenius (talk) 13:06, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
Seconding! — Frostly (talk) 20:02, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
I concur. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:40, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

FPs

I'm a bit shocked that this year there's been 0 FPs. Like, I left the Wikicup a few years back because it really felt that doing at all well with FPs in the cup was something that made people very upset, but that the celebration of all content on Wikipedia now has 0 FPs? That feels weird. Ah, well, probably just means I was right to leave when I did. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 8.9% of all FPs. 05:56, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

I would try, but Sca is very intimidating... Panini! • 🥪 06:29, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
@Adam Cuerden, I noticed that as well. I don't know if I've announced it on-wiki, but I should announce this publicly here: The first competitor to get an FP this year will get a special award at the end of this year's cup, in addition to the standard awards given for the highest-scoring competitors in a certain category. – Epicgenius (talk) 14:29, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
Well, if someone wants to learn, poke me. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 8.9% of all FPs. 16:55, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

I've discussed this in passing on Discord, but I think we should consider adjusting the points that are given for featured lists. I'm going to just spew some reasons and thoughts of mine on the matter;

  • Featured lists cannot be spammed like good articles, DYKs, or ITNs because of the limit on the number of featured list candidates you can have at any given time (2)
  • Far fewer lists are eligible for the interwiki bonus point multipliers
  • Should featured articles really be more than 4x the value of featured lists?
  • The most featured lists in any round this year was 6 (by myself), for a base point total of 270.
  • The most featured articles in any round this year was 3 (by Generalissima), for a base point total of 600.
  • I pulled some numbers, and this is only the second time that we've had more featured lists than articles.
  • I feel as though we're simply not incentivizing the FL process for the cup, and I think the points could be increased to encourage a greater mix of content from participants.
  • Featured list points were last increased from 40 to 45 prior the 2012 cup
  • Featured article points were doubled from 100 to 200 prior to the 2014 cup
  • The ratio was 2.5 lists being worth 1 FA from 2010–2011
  • 2010–2011: 40 pts per FL vs 100 pts per FA (2.5 FL:1 FA)
  • 2012–2014: 45 pts per FL vs 100 pts per FA (2.22 FL:1 FA)
  • 2015–present: 45 pts per FL vs 200 pts per FA (4.44 FL:1 FA)

In short, I believe the value of featured lists is not properly reflected with the current scoring. As such, I am proposing that featured list points be raised to 65 (3.08 FL per FA), 70 (2.86 FL per FA), or 80 (2.5 FL per FA) starting with the 2025 WikiCup. I'd very much appreciate any feedback on the matter. Hey man im josh (talk) 17:54, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

I think these are good ideas to consider. Actually, perhaps it might be time for another scoring reform; the last such reform took place in 2019, when competitors were much less likely to submit FLs for points. We haven't changed the scoring rules substantially since then. – Epicgenius (talk) 18:18, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
I think it could be beneficial to examine. Though not exploited in the most recent iteration of the cup, there have been concerns voiced on Discord about the gameability of ITN items. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:23, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
I mean, at the moment, an FP is only worth ⅔ a FL, and less than a GA. If FLs get raised by themselves, FPs get more marginal. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 8.9% of all FPs. 18:26, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
@Adam Cuerden: I disagree actually because of the fact there's no limits (to my knowledge) on the number of featured picture nominations you can have. My suggestion is meant to compensate for the limits in place for featured lists. I think there's just not a lot of cross over between FP nominators and WikiCup participants. Looking at the 2022 stats as an example, you had 12 pictures in round 1 (360 base pts), 13 pictures in round 2 (390 base points), and 14 pictures in round 3 (420 base points). These base point values just aren't possible with featured lists, so in a sense, it's actually moving things closer to being equal instead of further apart. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:37, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
Yes. As far as I can tell, I have more FPs than any other person on Wikipedia, and I still generally lost every year, even years I was literally spending entire days morning to night working on restoration.
On my best year ever, 2019 - and, remember, no-one is more productive than me - I had 99 FPs. That's 1970 points for the entire year. Last year, the winner had 2582 points in the final round alone. In 2021, the winner had over 5000, again, last round alone.
If I don't participate, no-one would be stupid enough to participate who works with FPs. Whic is very, very much against the original goal of the Wikicup, to celebrate all varieties of featured content. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 8.9% of all FPs. 20:13, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
I think it would make sense to increase the value of FPs a bit, since nobody actually seems to submit any and they certainly don't seem easy. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:23, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
In terms of article writing (as someone who has written all three), I feel that FLs are only slightly more difficult to accomplish than GAs, but are significantly less difficult to write than FAs. The current ratio of FL:FA points seems about right to me; I would not support increasing over 55. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:35, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
There actually are some high-multiplier FLs in the current WikiCup submission round. I do not see a good argument to support a massive change to the points awarded to FLs. I agree with Airship that we need to compare to GAs as well. —Kusma (talk) 10:05, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
@Kusma: If we're comparing to GAs, then I'd like to point out that featured list candidates require 3 reviews, one of them being a source review, and a rough minimum of 20 days of time to be promoted. We've seen it plenty where certain types of GAs can be nominated quite quickly and reviewed the same day by only a single nominator. This doesn't make the work less valuable, but they can and have been "spammed", in that, someone can make a lot of nominations and they are reviewed and promoted the same day. This is not possible with FLs because of the number of reviewers and
As far as the high-multiplier FLs in the current WikiCup, a 3x multiplier still doesn't compete with FAs, and there are not a ton of high-multiplier FL opportunities out there aside from lists of cities. It was actually my goal to see how far I could get in the cup solely based on FLs and my pending elimination was the reason I actually started working on the Olympics lists. Besides the Olympics lists, the other opportunities are typically very large lists that would be a lot more work than GAs. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:30, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
I'm not part of the Wikicup much, but there should be some serious consideration to increasing the points for reviews, which is the area most lacking these days on Wikipedia. Maybe triple points for completing a review of a fellow Wikicup participant's article (which could also promote comradery within the competition)? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 20:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
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