Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/History and geography/Archive 6

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Archive 7

Remove Prince of Wales Island (Nunavut)  5

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Uninhabited island listed only for being large, and 40th largest in the world and 10th largest in Canada is not very impressive. This archipelago already has roughly 12 listings, and this is the smallest of them.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:18, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume (talk) 12:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. A large island visible on most world maps and globes. --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   @Makkool: Sure, it's big, but it has little to no importance outside of that. Nobody even lives on it. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:13, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   I'm not convinced that population is the only grounds for vitality. We list 446 islands, and it's easily among the most vital islands for Wikipedia in that range. --Makkool (talk) 14:46, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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Some colonies proposals

Add Colonial Brazil

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The largest, most profitable and influential Portuguese colony; it lasted many centuries and dictated the foreign policy of the Portuguese Empire for many decades. Its establishment marked the beggining of European colonization in the Americas, as well as being the biggest reciever of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. As a major trade hub, it fueled Europe's Industrial Revolution with its resources and labor force. To omit Colonial Brazil from vital articles is to overlook a pivotal chapter in human history. The Blue Rider 19:40, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 19:40, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Strong support. Vileplume (talk) 02:44, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Very historically important. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:45, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 22:19, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Support Gizza (talk) 22:58, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:16, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:40, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Dutch West India Company

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Perhaps not as influential as its counterpart, Dutch East India Company, but still a important for the Dutch colonization, some of them still last today (ABC islands, Sint Martin, etc). The Blue Rider 19:40, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 19:40, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. The Dutch Caribbean is certainly more vital than the seven Lesser Antillean nations. I was the nom of Willemstad  5. Vileplume (talk) 02:43, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Seems decently important. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:47, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:16, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add French Equatorial Africa

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Similar in importance compared to French West Africa. The Blue Rider 19:40, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 19:40, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak support; its population was nowhere near that of FWA. Vileplume (talk) 02:29, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Not quite as important as French West Africa  5, but definitely worth including. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:49, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:16, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Darfur genocide

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The article describes it as the first genocide of the 21st century, which has been ongoing since 2003. It led to international outcry and eventually prosecutions in the ICC. (Note that the larger article on the War in Darfur  5 is listed, but I feel the genocide on its own its vital enough at this level).

Support

1. As nom. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:18, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Well beyond many events we list; 80-400k is certainly enough. Vileplume (talk) 02:31, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:35, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:13, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Tigrayan peace process with Battle of Adwa  5

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Even if lasting peace takes place, I am not sure we need two vital articles to cover the Tigray War. The Battle of Adwa, on the other hand, is a very important event in Ethiopian history. It is the culminating battle of the First Italo-Ethiopian War  5, a symbol of Pan-Africanism  5, and secured Ethiopia’s independence until the Second Italo-Ethiopian War  4.

Support

1. As nominator.:Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:04, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 23:19, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 10:56, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:15, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add New Amsterdam

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Glaring omission, the first european settlement in what is now New York City  3. The Blue Rider 15:05, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 15:05, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 18:00, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
3. 44 interwikis, rated High-Importance by WikiProject New York City. Pretty important to the history of the state. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:06, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 22:02, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:11, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add History of São Paulo  5

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It's the largest metropolitan area in the Americas. The list of histories of cities would make no sense without it. Much older than History of Chicago  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 17:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 17:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
2. São Paulo  3 is VA3, and has existed for hundreds of years. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:53, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
3. All VA3 cities should be listed. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 16:39, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 11:33, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Add 1815 eruption of Mount Tambora  5

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Per our recent additions of natural disasters, this is "the most powerful volcanic eruption in recorded human history" and the most likely reason for the Year Without a Summer. Estimates suggest it is also the deadliest volcano eruption in history, directly causing over 71,000 deaths.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:08, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Makes sense. Year Without a Summer should also be listed. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:02, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:21, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:11, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Minneapolis–Saint Paul

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A famous example of twin cities. A good choice to add, so that Dallas–Fort Worth metroplex  5 wouldn't be the only metropolitan area from the US that we list.

Support

1. as nom.Makkool (talk) 16:15, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Would much rather readd Duluth. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:34, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

   Do you mean Duluth MN–WI Metropolitan Area? Makkool (talk) 09:26, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

   No, I mean the city of Duluth. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:37, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

   Ok, right! But metropolitan areas would go to a different section. Minneapolis-Saint Paul would be listed in Countries and subdivisions instead of Cities. Makkool (talk) 13:03, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

2. Having the two core cities is enough. If we add metros, this is a ways down my list _pbp 23:19, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Not even in the top ten most important US metros. Kevinishere15 (talk) 21:32, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove Jervis Bay Territory

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300ish total people.

Support

1. _pbp 03:18, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Only exists to give the ACT access to the sea. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:33, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 17:56, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Does not seem important enough. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:09, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove Dondra

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About 50,000 population and only 8 interwiki links. _pbp 21:14, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 20:19, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Interwiki count is baffling and Sri Lanka is overrepresented. @Purplebackpack89: Since you believe all US states should be represented, should the same go for India? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 23:13, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Should definitely be removed. Sri Lanka is overrepresented and this city does not have a good argument for being listed. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:06, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Iostn (talk) 16:23, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Tripoli, Lebanon  5

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Lebanon is the largest country (6 mil total pop, 5.3 mil urban) with just one city. Tripoli has almost a quarter-million people, is 3400 years old and has 78 interwikis _pbp 21:14, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 21:14, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Support per nom (though note that Tyre, Lebanon  4 and Sidon  5 at least are listed in historical cities but still are important cities today). J947 ‡ ^edits 22:15, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Guinea also has a high urban population and only has Conakry  4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 23:41, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:55, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
5. Also, move Tyre and Sidon from historical sites to here. Iostn (talk) 16:23, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove History of the Australian Capital Territory, History of the Northern Territory, History of South Australia, and History of Tasmania

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We removed the history of most US states and Canadian provinces of under 2 million, so it seems reasonable to do the same with Australia. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:21, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Support all

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:21, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 20:56, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
3. _pbp 23:14, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Support all per nom. Interstellarity (talk) 23:24, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Mixed

Oppose all

Neutral

Discussion

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Early modern history additions

Add Great Fire of London

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This maybe Anglo bias, but I am genuinely surprised this isn't already listed. Nearly everyone in the UK has heard of it.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 12:41, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 20:51, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
3. I'm not near the UK and I've heard of it too... starship.paint (RUN) 14:43, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:15, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
5. What is with us not having natural disasters? SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:23, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
6. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:08, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
7. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:46, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Surely natural disasters are events whose fame transcends importance? J947 ‡ ^edits 22:57, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add St. Bartholomew's Day massacre

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Both of the parent topics for this, French Wars of Religion  4 and Huguenots  4, are VA4, not to mention this has more interwikis than the former.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 12:41, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 20:54, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:15, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:23, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:09, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
6. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:57, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Shimabara Rebellion

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An important event in the early Edo period  4, that had long-lasting ramifications for the Sakoku  5 policy and Christianity in Japan. Amakusa Shirō  5 is already a VA.

Support

1. As nom. Iostn (talk) 12:41, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 20:54, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:15, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:23, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 17:08, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
6. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:57, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove 2012 Benghazi attack

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I know this is sometimes mentioned in the U.S. media, but I am not sure it is so important to world history. We have 7 vital articles covering the Libyan Crisis (2011–present), which I think is a recentist bias for a V5 conflict.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 15:29, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:16, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Does not seem vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:01, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 06:28, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Sino-Indian War

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This war saw direct confrontation between the world's two most populous countries. As both states have risen politically and economically, its salience remains important in geopolitics. For instance, during the 2020–2021 China–India skirmishes and the broader Sino-Indian border dispute.

Support

1. As nominator.:Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:49, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support surprised it was missing. I almost consider it Level 4 vital. Gizza (talk) 22:59, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 00:40, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:14, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Swap Crimes against humanity under communist regimes with Katyn massacre  5

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Framing aside, we already have Mass killings under communist regimes  5, which covers a lot of the same ground. For a more definite example, the decimation of Poland's leadership class in the Katyn Massacre was one of the most notorious war crimes by the Soviet Union.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 10:12, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom Iostn (talk) 22:07, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 13:44, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 06:28, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Kingdom of Nri  5

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A kingdom in Africa that was seemingly influential for centuries and existed for 1000 years. Rated High-Importance by WikiProject Nigeria and Top-Importance by WikiProject Igbo.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:42, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 17:51, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Support - good find Gizza (talk) 01:27, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
4. SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:18, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Various history removals

Didn't realize we almost fulfilled the current History quota (3,300), so I scrounged for a few potential removals and gathered these ten:

Remove Military history of the Mali Empire

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In the same vein, we only have Military history of Europe  5 and Military history of the United States  5. This one doesn't stand out enough.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:53, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove 1889 Apia cyclone

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Presumably added for its relation to the Samoan crisis  5, which is already a weak V5 in my opinion, as it is part of the broader Samoan Civil War  5 and later Second Samoan Civil War  5. The Samoan crisis article only mentions the cyclone once.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:40, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove 2019 Bolivian protests

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I don't enjoy rallying against Latin American representation but this strikes me as a recentist complement to the 2019 Bolivian political crisis  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Iostn (talk) 16:23, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove RMS Lusitania

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Another two-slot event that can be condensed. The ship's history is well-covered by Sinking of the RMS Lusitania  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:53, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove 2019 Samoa measles outbreak

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5,700 cases and 83 deaths.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Not enough of an impact. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:34, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Togo national football team attack

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A terrorist attack part of the Cabinda War. The War, which has been ongoing for nearly 50 years, is not VA5, so I guess a swap could be on the table.

Support

1. As nominator. Weak support for a swap with Cabinda War. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Support if swapped for Cabinda War. CMD (talk) 05:42, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
5. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:56, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

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Oppose

Discuss

Remove 2014 Gaza War

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During my nomination of the Israel–Hamas war  5 some of you expressed support for a swap. The Israel-Palestine conflict may be overrepresented for its current salience.

Support

1. Weak support as nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:53, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove History of forensic photography

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Minor area in Forensic science  4. 1 interwiki.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Forensic photography isn't even listed! QuicoleJR (talk) 22:49, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Timeline of jet power

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Minor timeline article in the History of aviation  4. 0 interwikis.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. We should not list any timelines. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:36, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

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Oppose

Discuss

Remove History of cycling infrastructure

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Minor article in the History of cycling  5. 0 interwikis.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Cycling infrastructure  5 and History of cycling  5 are both only VA5. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:37, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Why this, feminist? starship.paint (RUN) 05:23, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
   1. Special:Diff/853378440 – looks like it was an indiscriminate addition from User:SethAllen623/Vital articles/Expanded/Histories of science, technology, and mathematics back when we were still nowhere near the 50,000 quota. I felt that adding stuff to the list first, based on work already done by other editors, and then fine-tuning it in the future, would be more efficient than building the list from scratch. When many of the sections were empty, it was harder to get an idea of whether something would end up being appropriate in a list of 50,000 articles. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:54, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
5. Support removal. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:54, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

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Historical cities additions

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Add Kowloon Walled City  5

Quite important to the history of Hong Kong.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 18:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
3. very iconic feminist🩸 (talk) 02:43, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Londinium  5

The capital of Roman Britain, predecessor to modern-day London.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 15:07, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 18:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

Add Lutetia  5

A major settlement in Gaul, predecessor to modern-day Paris.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:11, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 15:07, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 18:02, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove some historical cities stubs

Since I'm here, I took a look at the stub-rated articles, and I got to be honest, I don't think these articles are ever going to improve.

Remove Nagasaki foreign settlement

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It's not even its own article in Japanese Wikipedia.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. 2 iwikis, 5 dailies. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:34, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support swap with Dejima. The Blue Rider 22:18, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Remove per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:31, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Sukhothai (city)

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This is apparently a World Heritage Site, yet despite being written in 2004, it has only gained a couple of paragraphs.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. 4 iwikis (Thai not being one of them), 23 dailies. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:36, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 13:31, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

I would support a swap with Sukhothai Historical Park which refers to the UNESCO World Heritage Site. Gizza (talk) 05:08, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Talianki (archaeological site)

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Both projects it's in rate the article as low importance.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. 4 iwikis, 23 dailies. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:55, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 13:31, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:45, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. I don't know about this. The article says that it is thought to be "currently the largest known settlement in Neolithic Europe". Could the article's importance rating be misjudged? Makkool (talk) 21:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Onondaga (village)

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This article doesn't even have fifty edits.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. 4 iwikis, 50 dailies. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:06, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
3. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 13:31, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Primate city  5

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A general city-related topic that seems vital. Would fit well next to capital city. --Makkool (talk) 17:33, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --Makkool (talk) 17:33, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
2. SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:48, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Although it's a bit too much of a term as opposed to a concept for my liking. J947 ‡ ^edits 02:12, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Without a doubt. Interstellarity (talk) 19:51, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Mobile, Alabama  5

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Alabama's second-largest city and a major port on the Gulf Coast (twelfth-largest in the U.S.). It was also a key center of French colonization and played a major role in the Civil War.

Support

1. As nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 16:08, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 10:41, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
3. Support, the second largest city warrants a place --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   City proper is not the best metric. In metro population, it’s Birmingham, Huntsville, Mobile, and Montgomery. Vileplume (talk) 13:15, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

4. Third largest metro area. Bigger than Montgomery, which is already listed. Interstellarity (talk) 00:43, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Too many US cities of regional importance only. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:02, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

1. This is a V5-ish city of importance, but Alabama only has a population of 5 million inhabitants and 4 major cities, so I'd only support this if we removed Montgomery or Tuskegee. Sarasota is also over twice as large and not listed. Vileplume (talk) 17:24, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

   I considered proposing a swap, but both Montgomery and Tuskegee were proposed for removal recently and kept with strong opposition to removing. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 19:02, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

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Add Blue Banana

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Important geographical concept for Europe: a large, almost continuous area of urbanization.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 16:12, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. There are few practical implications for the concept in real life. Something like Randstad or Gush Dan would be a better addition. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:34, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

   I would also support those two. Then we would have more conurbations than the few random ones we already have on the list. Makkool (talk) 07:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

   Greater Tokyo should definitely be listed if conurbations are V5 material. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 11:15, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

2. Oppose per above. Kevinishere15 (talk) 23:22, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add decades of the 19th century

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I don't know if this will be a popular opinion, but we could possibly discuss whether to extend the decades we list to the 19th century since we now list all the decades of the 20th and 21st century. We don't have to include all the decades, just the ones that are important. Interstellarity (talk) 01:53, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Support

Oppose

1. Vileplume (talk) 17:31, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

• In order for us to seriously consider them, please list them individually. We need to at least see individual links to consider this seriously-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:32, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

  @TonyTheTiger: Articles affected: 1800s (decade), 1810s, 1820s, 1830s, 1840s, 1850s, 1860s, 1870s, 1880s, 1890s. Interstellarity (talk) 14:52, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

  I think these would meet with better success as separated discussions, IMO.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:26, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Factional violence in Libya (2011–2014)

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Same reasoning as above.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 15:35, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Per above. Gizza (talk) 01:37, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 06:28, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:44, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Great Hungarian Plain  5 and possibly Northern Hungary  5

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Along with Transdanubia, which I proposed above, these are the three main regions of Hungary. GHP is rated High-importance in WP Hungary and most of its other WikiProjects. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:11, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:11, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 14:02, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:26, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:49, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

Might Pannonian Basin be a better fit? J947 ‡ ^edits 22:55, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

I'd support that under Physical geography and the other two under Country subdivisions. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 11:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

If I'm reading this map correctly, then Central Hungary is one more main region in Hungary. Should we add it as well, in addition to Transdanubia  5 and these two articles, so as to have every main Hungarian main region listed? Makkool (talk) 10:24, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

I'd support that if it were proposed. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:22, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Alright, I'd open a discussion for it. Makkool (talk) 16:36, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

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Add Dobruja  5

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We list the Wallachia  4, Moldavia  4, and Transylvania  4 at V4 and Székely Land  5 at V5. Dobruja is another significant region of Romania and Bulgaria that is not part of the V4 regions. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 15:46, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:53, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Add Allied-occupied Germany

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A relatively short-lived but deeply contentious occupation that defined the status quo of postwar Europe.

Support

1. As nominator.:Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:49, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Important. Kevinishere15 (talk) 01:08, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Short-lived.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per TonyTheTiger Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

• West Germany  5 and East Germany  5 are already listed, I think that sufficiently covers it, no? The Blue Rider 21:50, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  Both of those states were formed after the direct occupation/administration period, which is what this article is focused on Iostn (talk) 16:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

  West and East Germany are concepts that were created during the allied-occupied Germany, not just after it. The Blue Rider 18:00, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

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Add Mdina  5

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Mdina, Malta holds significant historical importance for the country of Malta:

• Its predecessor, the ancient city of Melite, was founded by Phoenicians around 800 BC, it was under Roman rule until 870 AD.
• It was captured and besieged multiple times throughout its hitsory, this demonstrates its long-standing vitality. Notable events include: Capture of Malta (218 BC), Siege of Melite (870), Siege of Medina (1053–1054), Norman invasion of Malta (1091) and Invasion of Gozo (1551).
• It served as Malta's first capital, from The Middle Ages until the 14th century.
• Mdina boasts architecturally important structures, such as Greeks Gate, Domvs Romana, Temple of Proserpina, Temple of Apollo, Vilhena Palace and Mdina Gate (see Mdina#Places of interest for a more comprehensive list).
• The city is closely linked to the historical event of Paul the Apostle's shipwreck in Malta. The island's governor, Saint Publius, received him in Mdina. Paul converted the entire island to Christianity and made Publius the 1st Bishop of Malta, who is now a patron saint of the country. Mdina is home to St Paul's Cathedral, serving as the seat of government for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Malta
• Mdina is a significant tourist destination, welcoming over 1.5 million visitors annually.

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 00:33, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
2. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:51, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Support under Historical cities, considering we do list some permanently inhabited settlements there. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 18:56, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. File under historical cities. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I think we Valletta is enough for Malta, for country with that low population. Makkool (talk) 12:22, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

   This would most certainly be listed under Historical cities. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:07, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

   Historical cities is not meant for cities where people still live. It's meant for places that are archaelogical sites for example. Makkool (talk) 19:40, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

• Yes, the current population is only of a few hundreds but historically it had an higher population comparatively to the rest of the country. The Blue Rider 00:39, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, but most would ignore current population for historical settlements. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:29, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

  @OhnoitsvileplumeXD: What are your thoughts on whether the article should be added to the list? You have not voted yet. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:44, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

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Add Treaty of Trianon  5

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Had a profound impact on Central and Eastern Europe. The loss of about two-thirds of Hungary's pre-war landmass and population fueled nationalist sentiments and political instability, while internationally, it solidified the post-WWI order, leading to the creation or enlargement of Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Austria and Romania.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 15:19, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 06:28, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:44, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Seems vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:44, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove History of Poles in the United States

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Not really a very large or important ethnic minority in the United States, currently making up only 10 million of the country's population of over 330 million. They don't seem to have much cultural importance, with the article saying they are well assimilated and aren't still attached to much of their culture, and less than 5 percent speak the Polish language. I also don't see much historical importance. Additionally, the article has only one interwiki. Overall, we don't have much room left in history, we need to make room for more important topics, and this article does not seem worthy of inclusion compared to the other articles listed.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:00, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
2. _pbp 14:04, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 20:43, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 10:05, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
5. --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:08, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Tajikistani Civil War  5

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With a death toll ranging from 20,000-150,000, this was arguably the deadliest post-Soviet conflict until the Russian invasion of Ukraine  5. Central Asia remains an underrepresented region, and the consequences of this war are still felt today, as its chaos led to the rise of current leader Emomali Rahmon  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:30, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 20:25, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Seems pretty important. Rated High-Importance by WikiProject Tajikistan. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:20, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Howland Island  5

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Sparsely populated rock _pbp 19:03, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 19:03, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
3. No vitality beyond being an uninhabited US territory. Interstellarity (talk) 23:02, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. It has some decent historical importance and some strange importance to time, of all things. I think it is just vital enough to include. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:01, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak oppose per QuicoleJR. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 20:59, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

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Remove History of Easter Island, History of Norfolk Island and History of the Pitcairn Islands

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Three incredibly lightly-populated places. IDK why they deserve a "History of" as vital _pbp 18:19, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 18:19, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 23:03, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Another batch of history removals

Remove Timeline of geology, Timeline of history of environmentalism and Timeline of motor vehicle brands

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More or less duplicates of other, more comprehensive VAs: History of geology  4, Environmental history  5 and History of the automobile  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 23:04, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove History of hang gliding

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Not a major sport. Hang gliding  5 is only VA5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:15, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
3. _pbp 17:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
5. Interstellarity (talk) 23:04, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove History of Dubai

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A minor settlement before the discovery of oil in the 1960s. Even today, with 3.5 million people, it is among the least populous cities with a separate history article.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. I would support a swap with History of Mecca if it were a separate article. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 18:35, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
3. _pbp 17:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
5. Interstellarity (talk) 23:04, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Early history of Tonga

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“The early history of Tonga covers the islands' settlement and the early Lapita culture through to the rise of the Tuʻi Tonga Empire.” Redundant to Lapita culture  5 and Tuʻi Tonga Empire  5. Not to mention the History of Tonga  5 itself.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. _pbp 17:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 23:04, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove History of Australia (1788–1850)

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Even when they encompass customary periodizations, I’m not very convinced about having “History of country by time period” articles. We list several events in Australian history for his period: Australian frontier wars  5, Black War  5, Bushranger  5, European land exploration of Australia  5, the beginnings of the Eureka Rebellion  5.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. _pbp 17:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 23:04, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove History of crime fiction

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Crime fiction  5 is only VA5 with 2 interwikis. There are broader areas of literature that would merit coverage first.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 23:04, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove History of the Kuomintang

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The only “History of political party” we have. Kuomintang  5 is already listed, as well as History of the Republic of China, History of Taiwan, and Republic of China.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
2. _pbp 17:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 07:29, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Considering we don't list History of the Chinese Communist Party. Interstellarity (talk) 23:04, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove United States Minor Outlying Islands

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300ish total people. Also, Wake Island is VA5, Midway Atoll is VA5, and Howland Island is VA5

Support

1. _pbp 03:15, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Would support removing those three islands too. Makkool (talk) 17:56, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Per Makkool, remove the three islands. Interstellarity (talk) 01:07, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Midway was kept in a previous discussion, so I'll have to oppose its removal. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:24, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

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Remove cantons of Switzerland, batch 1

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Based on stuff we've already removed, does Switzerland really need all 26 of its cantons listed? I think we can ultimately cut it down to four cantons, probably along the lines of Zurich, Ticino, Aargau, and Geneva. Here are all cantons of Switzerland of under 100k population:

1. Appenzell Ausserrhoden
2. Appenzell Innerrhoden
3. Canton of Glarus
4. Canton of Jura
5. Nidwalden
6. Obwalden
7. Canton of Schaffhausen
8. Canton of Uri

Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:12, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Support all

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:12, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 20:56, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
3. None of them seem to have much historical importance and they all have low populations. However, it might be a good idea to add Appenzell to the list as a historical region, since it had more importance while unified. QuicoleJR (talk) 22:42, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:54, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Mixed

Oppose all

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove History of Arkansas and History of Mississippi

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Redundant to the History of the Southern United States  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:23, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:23, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 20:56, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:07, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:54, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove Burlington, Vermont  5

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This one can probably go since there really isn't much of this city other than being the biggest in the state. Listing Vermont is enough for this level. Interstellarity (talk) 23:48, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 23:48, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
2. J947 ‡ ^edits 23:57, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

   We should also remove the other representative of the Lake Champlain  5 valley, Lake Placid, New York  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:01, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

3. I'd rather have the state capital, if we'd list at least one city Makkool (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

   I'd rather remove Burlington than readd Montpelier, and reconsidering, every state should get at least one. Montpelier is Barre, Vermont's twin city, and neither city exceeds 10k population. We also removed eight other state capitals, and this would be the last of the nine to readd. Burlington is Vermont's primate city, holding over half of the state's urban population. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 15:48, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Every state should get at least one _pbp 03:17, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

   Considering that we removed Wilmington in Delaware, this removal seems to make sense. Interstellarity (talk) 11:55, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

   I disagreed with what you did to Delaware just as I disagree with what you did to Vermont. Either Wilmington or Dover should have been retained, and Burlington should be retained as well. _pbp 12:04, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

   I'd readd Wilmington, due to Delaware and New Castle county having a significantly higher population than Vermont/Burlington and Wyoming/Cheyenne. It is also very close to the capital of New Sweden. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:50, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

2. I really detest the ebbs and flows of VA preferences. I think a lot of large cities and capitals have been removed just to make room for other stuff. I think each state should have one.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:01, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Switching my vote to oppose. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 15:50, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Add Political history of the world  5

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We list the academic field, but not the actual political history. Interstellarity (talk) 01:50, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 01:50, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:59, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Gizza (talk)01:47, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Add Battle of the Catalaunian Plains  5

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Another battle strategic to world history that is missing from the list _pbp 03:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 03:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:45, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

_pbp 03:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

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Add Temperance movement  5 and Teetotalism

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Surprised these are not listed. Abstaining from alcohol is an important concept. Interstellarity (talk) 13:50, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 13:50, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Support temperance movement. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 07:14, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 13:43, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 06:28, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Add First Battle of Panipat  5

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A very important engagement in Indian history as it marked the beginning of the Mughal Empire  3 and the dissolution of the Delhi Sultanate  4.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:31, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Support Gizza (talk) 01:27, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:30, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove Genetic history of Africa and Genetic history of Europe

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Too specific and the WikiProjects don't care very much. The parent topic, Archaeogenetics  5, is only VA5.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:45, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 20:20, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:51, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Almost arbitrary intersections, so relevant only to the parent articles, not on their own. CMD (talk) 14:42, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add States and union territories of India

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We list other countries, this is the most notable country not listed. Interstellarity (talk) 00:56, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 00:56, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:26, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Lists should not have a place in WP:VA. The Blue Rider 13:52, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

   A lot of the article is on the history of India's administrative divisions, so it should not be compared to something like List of sovereign states. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 14:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

   I didn't compare this list with any other; the vast majority of the article is listing the states and union territories, so it is a list and is marked as so. The Blue Rider 14:17, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

   Also, this article failed a GA review precisely because it is a list and lists can't be GA. The Blue Rider 14:18, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

2. Whether this article should be listed at VA5 is in my opinion contingent not on if India's states and union territories are individually important enough, but on if the very delineation of India into states is itself a sufficiently important encyclopaedic topic. In my opinion, this does not quite reach that bar (and neither does U.S. state, or any other such division). J947 ‡ ^edits 22:49, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove History of Kinshasa

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Not every VA4 city has its history listed, and they don't all need to. This city is big, but there are plenty of bigger cities that don't have their histories listed. This city has only existed since 1881, and it does not have a lot of historical importance.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:22, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:08, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 08:37, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
4. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:41, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Cambridge  5

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It's University is listed at level 4. Cambridge's history goes back over 800 years, we list English places such as Milton Keynes which was founded in the 1960's. The whole county of Cambridgeshire was named after it. We list English towns like Dover which have less than a quarter the population of the city of Cambridge. Internationally people seem more interested in Cambridge which appears in 124 languages, compared with Milton Keynes which appears in less than half at 61; Dover, Northampton, Derby, Luton, Norwich which are all listed also appear in under 100 languages compared to Cambridge's 124.

Support

1. Support as nom.  Carlwev  11:01, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Strong support, much more vital than Cambridge, Massachusetts  5 Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:55, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
3. _pbp 15:02, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:52, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove ALL 52 pages under the "Geography by country" section.

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This is a bold proposal, but one that I think makes sense. We already have 1,316 articles for countries. I think that these 52 pages under physical geography are fairly redundant as far as vital articles go. I also think that the 52 represented are fairly arbitrary, and it would be to easy to argue for the inclusion of many others in this category if these are left as is. By getting rid of all 52 articles, we could free up ALOT of room. There are several thematic map types for example completely excluded, which this could make room for. Even if we don't get rid of all 52, we could get rid of most of them.GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 06:51, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Partial support, remove Geography of Democratic Republic of the Congo, Kenya, Tanzania, Chile, Colombia, Bangladesh, Myanmar, South Korea, Taiwan, Wales, New Zealand - We could certainly trim some of them, but I think we wouldn't need to be so drastic and remove all. We list "History of country" articles as well after all. Makkool (talk) 11:31, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

   @Makkool: Out of curiosity, how did you decide which countries to keep and which to remove? QuicoleJR (talk) 22:35, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

   It's the countries that have a "History of..." article on Level 4 that I want to keep. Makkool (talk) 05:15, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

   Agree with QuicoleJR here. Why keep 6 African countries but 15 European ones? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 22:48, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

2. Much less important to include than the history IMO. The history articles are useful as overviews, while most countries can have their geography covered by just listing the major features. This also leaves more room for those important features. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:46, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Support as nom. GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 14:26, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Support all, though not opposed to 3–10 exceptions. By and large, the geography by continent articles are sufficient IMO. J947 ‡ ^edits 21:36, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
5. support all per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

• @Makkool: I just worry that leaving some "Geography by country" articles over others would open the door for arguments about what countries are important enough to be included, which is obviously a subjective can of worms. "History of Country" articles could likely be dramatically trimmed as well. If we have the country page, these sub pages are less important in my opinion. Clearing them could open up room for a lot of other articles.GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 01:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

  Personally, I think we should keep all of the History of Country articles. They are useful overviews and cover a lot of things that are important but not quite important enough to be vital. The same is not really true of the geography articles. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:48, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

  @GeogSage: Just so you know, the Vital Articles project typically expects nominators to support their own proposal unless they do not support the nomination. Letting you know so that you can do so here. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:34, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

• Thanks for the reminded @QuicoleJR:. I get this mixed up with the nominations for articles for improvement it seems.GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 14:26, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

• A bit of off-topic, but what would you think of cutting down on "Law of country" and "Economy of country" articles in the same way? Or should we let them be without drastic removals like the "History of" articles? Makkool (talk) 14:56, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

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Add East Coast–West Coast hip hop rivalry

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One of the major pop culture events in the 1990s, and probably the only music feud that led to people's deaths. It's rated high-importance on all of the WikiProjects it's a part of, and we already got the main participates on here (Tupac Shakur  4, The Notorious B.I.G.  5, Suge Knight  5, and Sean Combs  5).

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:54, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
2. λ NegativeMP1 20:15, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Too niche to be vital and this reflects on the interwikis. The Blue Rider 20:56, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
2. per above Makkool (talk) 21:09, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Do we even have West Coast and East Coast rap themselves? _pbp 01:10, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
4. If anything, 2Pac needs representation in musical works as the only V4 rapper. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:27, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Roman Britain  5

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This was suggested at level 4 over 10 years ago, had some support, but more opposition and was not added. (see here) Main argument was why Roman Britain and not all the other Roman provinces. However I think the topic is definately important enough for level 5. . I'm not opposing them but we are listing, or will be soon, British Hong Kong, and New Amsterdam, which concern the history of an individual city for a number of centuries or less. In the case of New Amsterdam, concerns a population of around 2500 people for 50 years. Istanbul is level 3, Constantinople level 4 and Byzantium level 5, although that covers many centuries. Also Many of the early English monarchs we list, cover mainly what they did in the decades or years they were in power over the land. Roman Britain covers the whole of England and Wales for 350 years. If one were to study as a general reader or a specialist, anything to do with British history, Roman Britain would be a topic in and of itself before every individual monarch standing alone. There are many books on this very subject, and it appears as a topic/section in more general history books of Britain as well. It was covered in detail when I attended school and College. (I live in England, but still). It looks like we may soon add Londinium, essentially London under the Romans, I would imagine the whole island of Britain under the Romans is more vital than the single city of London under the Romans.

Support

1. Support as nom.  Carlwev  11:26, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
2. as nominator of Londinium Makkool (talk) 16:17, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 00:52, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Important phase of history for Great Britain  4 and by extension the United Kingdom  3. Would have supported sooner but thought this would pass quickly even without me and got lazy.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:10, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove History of online games

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Don't see a need to keep this article based on the other recent video game removals. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:18, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 08:37, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. λ NegativeMP1 03:16, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 00:52, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Add History of Mesopotamia  5

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Reasonable addition alongside Mesopotamia. Interstellarity (talk) 00:22, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 00:22, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
2. A little off-topic, but does Iraq make the cut for V3? Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:29, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Only reason History of Iraq  4 is VA4. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 11:33, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Add Belgian Congo  5

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Seems like a BFD in the history of Africa. _pbp 14:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 14:25, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Very important part of the history of a country with a population in excess of 100 million. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 14:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Some overlap with Atrocities in the Congo Free State  5 but still important. The Blue Rider 16:00, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Obviously, given its predecessor Congo Free State  4 is listed. J947 ‡ ^edits 23:58, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove Dallas–Fort Worth metroplex  5

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It's the only metropolitan area from the US we list. Interstellarity (talk) 23:36, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 23:36, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

   Joining to support. Better to have none US metropolitan areas than just this one. Makkool (talk) 16:49, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

   We have Silicon Valley at V4 and the Bay Area and Inland Empire at V5. It also makes sense to list at least one subregion of the second-most populous US state, and this is by far the most vital. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 03:20, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Certainly not your typical metro area of 8.1 million. One of Texas' regions should be listed if Cali gets 5, and the Metroplex makes the most sense. I'd also weakly add the New York metropolitan area. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:38, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Large multipolar metro areas comprising multiple major urban centers should be listed. New York should not. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:41, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Vileplume, didn't realize those two were metropolitan areas. Inland Empire is the 12th and SF Bay Area the 13th largest metropolitan area in the US. This should stay, so that California isn't the only state with regions, but we definitely should list some other ones for other states. Makkool (talk) 14:56, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove Cheyenne, Wyoming  5

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Cheyenne doesn't seem to have must going for it other than it's a city in the least populated state. It can probably go. Interstellarity (talk) 23:47, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 23:47, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
2. J947 ‡ ^edits 23:56, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

# Wyoming  5 is enough to cover an insignificant administrative division. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:58, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Every state should get at least one. A place that is both the capital and largest city should be an auto-add _pbp 03:19, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
2. per above Makkool (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Switching my vote to oppose. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 15:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Add West Indies and East Indies

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Historically used geographical terms. Relevant in the age of discovery, to be added to the History section.

Support

1. as nom. Makkool (talk) 18:51, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add French Resistance  5

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Important topic for French and WW2 history.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 14:27, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 16:32, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
3. _pbp 14:41, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 05:10, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove History of the Cook Islands and History of Niue

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We previously removed the "history of" articles of US and Australian states and Canadian provinces below 2 million in population. We could similarly cut the ones for these two countries in free association with New Zealand.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 14:36, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
2. As nom of Canadian and Australian removals. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:24, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Interstellarity (talk) 23:05, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
5. Weakly. I support listing the "history of X" article for every current country, but these two don't really count IMO. They also don't seem to have much historical importance outside of that to warrant listing these articles. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:17, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Scandinavian geography

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Add Halti

We already list Finland's second highest peak Saana  5, so why not have the highest as well? 42 interwikis

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 20:43, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Seems somewhat important to Finland and Norway. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:10, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

Add Kebnekaise

We could add Sweden's tallest peak by the same measure. 51 interwikis

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 20:43, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

Add Gullfoss

A waterfall in Iceland, "Gullfoss is one of the most popular tourist attractions in Iceland". We already list Dettifoss  5, which is another famous Icelandic waterfall. 44 interwikis

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 20:43, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Blida  5

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Being one of the 58 provincial capitals in Algeria does not make a city vital. Population is not that high and there is not very much historical importance. All it has going for it is having the home stadium for the Algeria national football team, which is not vital. It is also very close to the capital, further decreasing its vitality. Decent number of interwikis, but that is likely for the same reason as the U.S. state capitals. Overall, this city just doesn't have enough going for it to make the list.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:20, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

   I would support either of the swaps listed below. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:29, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

2. Per nom. Would support a swap with Tlemcen or Bejaia. --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. 10 cities for Algeria seems about right ratio-wise and in general, I'm inclined to oppose any city removal unless it's blatantly obvious it shouldn't be included because we are actually under-quota for Cities. However, I would support a swap with either Tlemcen (former capital of Medieval Muslim Algeria, more populous, other important historical events) or Béjaïa (largest city in Kabylia which is a region of Algeria that is large enough, culturally unique enough, and significant enough to the history of Algeria that it should also be at VA5 imo, 6th largest port on the Mediterranean, more populous). Aurangzebra (talk) 17:43, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak oppose per Aurangzebra, although I would support either of the swaps. Vileplume (talk) 22:27, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

• Bilda is the fourth largest city of Algeria, Sidi Bel Abbès  5 seems like a better removal. The Blue Rider 18:28, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

  Strangely, that metric at list of cities in Algeria shows the population of Blida as over 100k more than the article on Blida does, despite being only four years older. Blida has the lowest population among the listed cities going by what the infoboxes in the articles say. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

• Swapping has 4 supporting votes, so it is going to go ahead instead of a removal. So we would have to decide which city to replace Blida with. It's a very tough choice, because both alternatives are quite viable, per Aurangzebra. I'll still nominate Tlemcen, as it is the former capital and because it gets more monthly pageviews than Béjaïa. Makkool (talk) 12:17, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

  I'd also prefer Tlemcen, since we recently added Kabylia  5. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:52, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

  I vote for Tlemcen too. Aurangzebra (talk) 19:29, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

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Add History of Go

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Go (game)  4 is VA4 and has been around for over two millennia, and the History of Games section is way too sports-based. The only other board game history article we have listed currently is History of chess  5, and I think that there is room for a second one.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:27, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. I'm aware that History of gambling does not exist as an article, but it would be the first "history of [game]" topic I'd want to add to the list if it does. I feel like "the most important game for which we have a separate History article on" is not a very good reason to include it, because it probably excludes more important topics which should be added first. I also think sports in general are more popular than games globally, and the greater element of competition in these sports means they have had a more developed history. The average Chinese person probably cares a lot more about, say, the China women's national volleyball team than they care about the game of Go, despite Go being strongly associated with China. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:12, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
2. I feel there's too much of "history of X thing" articles already listed. Go (game)  4 is sufficient. Makkool (talk) 16:31, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

• I beliebe mancala is older and played more. The Blue Rider 00:30, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

  History of mancala does not exist as an article. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:09, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

• I'm not convinced that "history of [recreational item]" is a particularly important class of articles for us to include on this list. Most articles on entertainment and recreation topics are not long enough to warrant splitting out its History section into a separate article. Our article on Doll  4 for example is mostly about the history of dolls, which is fine – there is no issue with not having History of dolls as a separate article, nor is the lack of inclusion of such an article on the V5 list a sign that we don't regard it as an important topic. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:18, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

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Add Euskadi Ta Askatasuna

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Major separitist group that was active during many decades in the Basque Country, an armed conflict so big that it had France, Spain and the European Union on their back (see Basque conflict). In its begginings, it was created to oppose the dictatorship of Franco, but soon their started kidnapping, exploding and shoot many civilians and police men, the deathpool reached 829. Several attacks are notable, such as 1980 Markina attack, 1980 Ispaster attack, July 1979 Madrid bombings, Assassination of Juan María de Araluce Villar, among many others. The Blue Rider 18:52, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 18:52, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Prefer this at V5 over Bilbao at V4. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 19:38, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
3. I'm surprised this wasn't already included. Aurangzebra (talk) 22:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
4. Agree this is a surprising omission. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:10, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Sarasota, Florida

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This Southwest Floridian city is a historically and especially demographically important city in Florida. The metro area in particular is projected to hit 1 million by the end of the decade. Unlike Greenville, however, its urban area population is actually significant. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:49, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:49, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. When I look at the cities that we've removed or almost removed, I don't think Sarasota has a chance. Compare that we removed Palm Springs. _pbp 03:10, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

   Resort towns are not necessarily vital, especially when they are part of agglomerations that are already listed. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 13:00, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

2. per above Makkool (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove the following national flags

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Previously, some of you expressed that our list had too many country flags (42) and suggested removing nearly all of them altogether. This proposal will reduce the list by a third, so while some of these may not be the most marginal, they probably don't make the cut by that standard.

• Flag of Algeria
• Flag of Tanzania
• Flag of the Democratic Republic of the Congo
• Flag of the Republic of China
• Flag of Israel
• Flag of Malaysia
• Flag of Myanmar
• Flag of Saudi Arabia
• Flag of the United Arab Emirates
• Flag of the Netherlands
• Flag of Ukraine
• Flag of Australia
• Flag of Colombia
• Flag of Argentina

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 16:09, 18 August 2024 (UTC)
2. They're flags. J947 ‡ ^edits 12:06, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 16:53, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
4. There are probably far more vital articles about individual countries than flag coverage. CMD (talk) 17:08, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
5. Support although we need to discuss what criteria, if any, make a flag vital _pbp 17:28, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
6. Support I think the list should be around 5, and this is a good start. We don't need every VA3 country's flag. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:06, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

   Besides the Stars and Stripes, the Union Jack and the French Tricolore, what else stays? I'd honestly say next after those is the USSR. _pbp 22:54, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

   Numerous flags could be represented by Triband (flag), instead of having individual listings. What other such convenient flag types are there?--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:28, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

   See Flag families, although the article should be taken with a pinch of OR salt. CMD (talk) 07:57, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

   Pan-African colours and Pan-Slavic colors could also be worth including. EDIT: Nordic cross flag and Pan-Arab colors definitely too. Makkool (talk) 18:04, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

   Maybe Japan because it has cultural connotations in both Japan and China, but other than that, we really only need these few. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:38, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove ALL or MOST history by country, subdivision and city

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This is a bold proposal. Many if not most countries should have stand alone pages in Vital articles already. These stand alone pages will have links to their respective history pages. Many, if not most, of the articles in this section are therefore redundant. There are also many articles that are very American centric, and it would be impossible to expand the same treatment to other major countries (or countries in general) while keeping the section tame. For example, there are 41 articles on History of US States, and one article for each of the original 13 US colonies. As an example, Virginia is a level 5 article, Colony of Virginia is a level 5 article, and History of Virginia is a level 5 article. By removing most if not all of the "History by country, subdivision and city" we can remove this redundancy and free up several hundred articles.GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 14:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As NomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 14:08, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. These articles are useful summaries of many things that happened in a country's history but are not important enough to include. Additionally, countries themselves are primarily made of geography, so those were redundant, but the history of a country encompasses a wider range of activities and events. History is also going to be more important internationally than geography is. Saying that these are redundant because the country articles link to them is absurd. US-centric bias is something that is being dealt with in a more moderated way by selectively removing some of the state history articles that are less important, and is also not a good reason to nuke the whole section. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

   Also, some of them, such as History of the United States  4, are VA4 and thus cannot be removed in this discussion. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:30, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 16:29, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
3. I'd rather they were discussed on a case-by-case basis and potential replacements identified for the space opened up by their removal _pbp 20:35, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

• I agree again that we could cut some of them, but I would oppose removing them all or even most. You say that it would free up hundreds of article slots, but what would we even fill the free space with? I find we are having less and less obvious missing articles in History. If we want to free up space, I'd suggest all or most of the flags as better articles to cut. They're more unnecessary than these broad history articles of vital countries and regions. Makkool (talk) 14:28, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I would agree that almost all or even all of the national flags can go. I'd keep the Union Jack since it appears in a lot of currently-used flags, but that's about it. We don't need the number of flags we currently have. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:08, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I'd say the US stars and stripes, the French tricolour and possibly the Japanese flag are necessary to keep as well. I'd support maximum 10 to stay, the amount we now have is really excessive. I'll make a proposal some time in the future. Makkool (talk) 15:26, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

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Add Battle of Muye  5

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Considered one of the most important battles in East Asian history. _pbp 20:50, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 20:50, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
2. Interstellarity (talk) 00:45, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 15:07, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
4. The battle ended the 550+ year Shang dynasty  4 and started the 750+ year Zhou dynasty  4. starship.paint (RUN) 12:28, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Manitoulin Island  5

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Physical Geography is under quota. This island in Lake Huron  4 is the largest lake island in the world, with a sizable amount of importance to the natives and a little importance to Canadian history. 38 interwikis.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:14, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Strange omission. Thanks for spotting it. J947 ‡ ^edits 01:07, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Support as a Michigander. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 02:11, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Makkool (talk) 11:32, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Realm of New Zealand

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The Danish Realm  5, which has a similar population and composition, is listed at this level. Place under New Zealand  4 in Countries.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:37, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
2. Support. It was removed last November, but since then we have lot more free space to include it. Makkool (talk) 11:13, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Per the comments made by me and J947 in the previous discussion. My opinion has not changed since then. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:08, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
2. Still not an important concept. J947 ‡ ^edits 20:16, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
3. At various times, the realm of Denmark included Norway, Iceland, Greenland, the Faroe Islands and parts of Britain. The same can't be said for New Zealand _pbp 20:45, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Metropolitan area additions

Add Randstad

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Houses half of Netherlands's population.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 12:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. These concepts might encompass a lot of population but they are not vital per see. The Blue Rider 12:32, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Gush Dan

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The largest metropolitan area of Israel, consisting of Tel Aviv and surrounding communities

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 12:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Greater Tokyo Area  5

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The largest metropolitan area in the world by population

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 12:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
2. λ NegativeMP1 20:17, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 03:07, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
5. Weak support. I am usually not a big fan of adding metro areas that are centered around some city we already list but, in this case, at least there are other major cities in the metro area (unlike NY metro area where no one has heard of the second-biggest city (Hempstead, New York) and it is 9 times smaller than New York City). Besides that, there is also the novelty of it being the largest metro area in the world. Aurangzebra (talk) 19:29, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add New York metropolitan area

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The largest metropolitan area in the world by urban landmass, and the largest metro area of the US. I tried proposing this before, but I'm trying again as @OhnoitsvileplumeXD: expressed support for it above in another discussion.

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 12:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Well known metro area. JpTheNotSoSuperior (talk) 03:07, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Once again opposing because this does not provide any new information that isn't already covered by other articles (we already have New York City  3, Manhattan  5, Brooklyn  5, Queens  5, The Bronx  5, Staten Island  5, Long Island  5, Newark, New Jersey  5, Jersey City, New Jersey  5, Bridgeport, Connecticut  5 etc. etc.). The region's relevancy comes almost entirely from New York City so I believe that article is sufficient. Aurangzebra (talk) 18:56, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
2. Per Aurangzebra. feminist🩸 (talk) 00:52, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Countries with too many or too few cities?

Based on number of VA5 cities per total URBAN population:

Underrepresented

Fewer than one city per 4 million

• China (5,767,810)
• Lebanon (5,321,908)
• Brazil (4,995,205)
• Guinea (4,474,929)
• Dominican Republic (4,318,085)
• Guatemala (4,236,821)
• Peru (4,125,303)
• Kuwait (4,052,584)

At least than one city per 4 million BUT
Fewer than one city per 3.25 million

• Venezuela (3,977,591)
• Ghana (3,955,994)
• Thailand (3,818,099)
• Ecuador (3,484,558)
• Uganda (3,291,379)
• Indonesia (3,281,747)
• Kenya (3,271,156)

No cities at all

City-states:

• Singapore (5,622,455)
• San Marino (32,273),
• Vatican City

Territories/possessions/state-like entities over 30,000

• Guam (154,425)
• U.S. Virgin Islands (100,402)
• Mayotte (98,596)
• Northern Mariana Islands (50,401)
• American Samoa (48,482)
• Aruba (45,493)
• Sint Maarten (39,537)
• Gibraltar (34,408)
• Turks & Caicos Islands (32,492)

_pbp 13:08, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

• @Purplebackpack89: = to compare, what is the number for USA? starship.paint (RUN) 15:26, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

  1,922,977 Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 21:10, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

  @OhnoitsvileplumeXD @Starship.paint about that, yes. The average is something like 2.1M-2.2M so the U.S. is about average _pbp 21:34, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

  But significantly below average among highly-populated countries. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:16, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

  Among countries with at least 100 million TOTAL (some of with have way less than 100 million urban), Japan and the Philippines have more entries per million urban population than the US does, Russia has about the same, while the other nine have fewer entries per million urban than the US does _pbp 01:19, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Overrepresented

One city and an urban population of < 1 million (dependencies in italics)

1. Abkhazia (122,089)
2. Andorra (68,085)
3. Antigua & Barbuda (24,837)
4. Bahamas (324,723)
5. Barbados (88,634)
6. Bermuda (61,666)
7. Bhutan (326,286)
8. Brunei (328,400)
9. Cape Verde (354,491)
10. Cayman Islands (60,765)
11. Comoros (230,724)
12. Curaçao (142,000)
13. Djibouti (733,135)
14. Dominica (51,848)
15. East Timor (388,213)
16. Equatorial Guinea (880,694)
17. Faroe Islands (20,875)
18. Fiji (505,103)
19. French Guiana (241,249)
20. French Polynesia (173,169)
21. Greenland (48,966)
22. Grenada (38,956)
23. Guinea-Bissau (788,013)
24. Guyana (205,699)
25. Iceland (311,861)
26. Kiribati (61,888)
27. Lesotho (621,478)
28. Liechtenstein (5,386)
29. Luxembourg (523,930)
30. Macau (612,167)
31. Maldives (170,247)
32. Malta (406,176)
33. Marshall Islands (40,861)
34. Martinique (360,842)
35. Mauritius (514,950)
36. Micronesia (23,821)
37. Monaco (38,499)
38. Montenegro (419,915)
39. Nauru (11,347)
40. New Caledonia (192,783)
41. Palau (17,181)
42. Réunion (347,970)
43. Saint Kitts & Nevis (16,885)
44. Saint Lucia (33,289)
45. Saint Vincent & the Grenadines (57,234)
46. Samoa (35,513)
47. Sao Tome & Principe (145,534)
48. Seychelles (53,427)
49. Solomon Islands (142,062)
50. Suriname (369,081)
51. Tonga (24,745)
52. Trinidad & Tobago (726,160)
53. Tuvalu (6,925)
54. Vanuatu (68,412)
55. Western Sahara (467,101)

Multiple cities and fewer than 400,000 per city

• Belize (83,849 per city, 2 cities)
• Cyprus (195,411 per city, 4 cities)
• Guadeloupe (224,988 per city, 2 cities)
• Papua New Guinea (355,740 per city, 3 cities)
• Sri Lanka (384,772 per city, 10 cities)
• Eswatini (159,829 per city, 2 cities)

Multiple cities and between 400,000 and 1,000,000 per city

• Afghanistan (883,729 per city, 10 cities)
• Albania (882,294 per city, 2 cities)
• Armenia (922,779 per city, 2 cities)
• Austria (846,529 per city, 6 cities)
• Botswana (520,560 per city, 3 cities)
• Burundi (684,068 per city, 2 cities)
• Cambodia (526,914 per city, 7 cities)
• Croatia (599,337 per city, 4 cities)
• Estonia (452,136 per city, 2 cities)
• Finland (939,935 per city, 5 cities)
• Gambia (624,801 per city, 2 cities)
• Ireland (995,627 per city, 3 cities)
• Israel (688,114 per city, 11 cities)
• Italy (909,536 per city, 46 cities)
• Jamaica (534,972 per city, 3 cities)
• Kazakhstan (794,228 per city, 13 cities)
• Laos (591,356 per city, 4 cities)
• Latvia (447,310 per city, 3 cities)
• Libya (720,128 per city, 7 cities)
• Lithuania (656,295 per city, 3 cities)
• Moldova (864,697 per city, 2 cities)
• Namibia (619,928 per city, 2 cities)
• Nepal (951,601 per city, 6 cities)
• Norway (719,893 per city, 6 cities)
• Palestine (916,222 per city, 4 cities)
• Turkmenistan (973,958 per city, 3 cities)

Swap Fredericton out for Moncton  5

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Moncton's been NB's largest city since before V5 existed. I think Fredericton would be the most appropriate article to swap out since we only have 42 US state capitals and we can cut a Canadian provincial capital. Canada also looks a bit overrepresented at V5 with 22 cities and a population of 39 million. Vileplume (talk) 02:33, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume (talk) 02:33, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
2. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 13:58, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
3. makes sense Aurangzebra (talk) 21:57, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
4. Support swap. Interstellarity (talk) 18:19, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose removal, support addition - We are under quota in Cities and Fredericton seems important in its own right (as the cultural, educational and administrative center of the province). --Makkool (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   New Brunswick has a population of under 900k, and Saint John is much more important than Fredericton, so it and Moncton should be NB’s two representatives at V5. Vileplume (talk) 13:11, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   I don't doubt that Saint John is important too. Why can't we have three cities for New Brunswick? -Makkool (talk) 14:46, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

   Q3 2023 population ~843k. Quebec’s three largest cities are all larger than any of NB’s, yet Sherbrooke is not V5. Vileplume (talk) 15:12, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

• Comment to stop automatic archiving. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 12:10, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

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Add Fourteen Points  5

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Inspired by a book that I can't remember by Kant, the Fourteen Points of Woodrow Wilson dictated the domestic and external policy of the United States and of many other countries! It is famous for proposing the creation of the League of Nations  4.

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
2. I think this is pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:06, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
3. Hadn't heard of it myself but yeah it seems important enough. On a bit of a tangent, should Triple Entente and Triple Alliance (1882) be listed? J947 ‡ ^edits 07:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 12:37, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Paphos

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Under 100,000 people and not a national capital. 4 cities for Cyprus is too many considering it has just over a million people 20:13, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 20:13, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
2. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 23:09, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
3. Makkool (talk) 14:53, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
4. Interstellarity (talk) 18:24, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. UNESCO World Heritage Site, European Capital of Culture, and some pretty decent historical importance. It even has a little Biblical importance! I would much rather choose Larnaca  5 as a removal for Cyprus, since it has much less going for it, only having a somewhat higher population and the international airport in comparison. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:03, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add Jinhua  5

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Per my nomination above. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 00:33, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
2. Adding User:Purplebackpack89 per his vote at Jiangxi at 23:50 Vileplume 🍋‍🟩 (talk) 01:43, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
3. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 02:50, 13 September 2024 (UTC)
4. China is still under-represented Makkool (talk) 21:31, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

1. Despite Yiwu  5 being under the jurisdiction of the prefecture-level city of Jinhua, Yiwu is more economically notable due to it being where most low-cost goods from China originate. Think Temu or AliExpress for people outside China. In contrast, Jinhua is just a relatively large area administered as a "city" under the Chinese definition. Not saying that Jinhua should not be listed, but Yiwu should remain on the list even if Jinhua is added. feminist🩸 (talk) 00:56, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

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