Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Operation Sportpalast

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Hog Farm (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 20:20, 7 October 2021 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Operation Sportpalast

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Nominator(s): Nick-D (talk)

Featured article candidates/Operation Sportpalast/archive1

Operation Sportpalast was an unsuccessful German attack on two Allied Arctic convoys in March 1942, and the first of the convoy battles in this theatre of World War II. The German battleship Tirpitz was dispatched from Norway with three destroyers, but was unable to locate either convoy. While the British Home Fleet was guided by signals intelligence, due to bad luck and some blunders it was unable to make contact with the German ships until they had almost reached the shelter of a Norwegian port. A strike from the British aircraft carrier failed due to the woeful inadequacy of the aircraft and bad tactics by their commander.

This article marks a return to my interest in writing about the Tirpitz, and working on it has helped to keep me entertained during a COVID-19 lockdown. The article was assessed as a GA in mid-August, and has since been expanded and improved. I am hopeful that the A-class criteria are now met, but would be grateful for any comments regarding areas for improvement. Thank you in advance for your reviews. Nick-D (talk) 08:09, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image licensing looks good (t · c) buidhe 00:56, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Some harv errors for Zetterling & Tamelander (t · c) buidhe 00:56, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- 'Some' is a diplomatic way of saying 'all' here :) - fixed. Nick-D (talk) 05:00, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA

The lead doesn't include anything about the background section.
- Added a little bit on this. Nick-D (talk) 04:50, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Will continue when this is addressed. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 09:23, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@CPA-5: Will you be able to post a review? Nick-D (talk) 11:04, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies, I'll give you my review this weekend. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 18:23, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Nick-D (talk) 08:37, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Operation Sportpalast (German: "Sports Palace") was a German naval Unlink German too common to keep it linked.
- Done Nick-D (talk) 03:50, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
against Allied convoys in the Atlantic Ocean during early 1941 Unlink the Atlantic Ocean too common to keep it linked.
- Done Nick-D (talk) 03:50, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
with only a single Allied merchant ship and a destroyer sailing Which destroyer?
- HMS Matabele - added. Nick-D (talk) 03:50, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
something which the German dictator Adolf Hitler wrongly --> "something which the German Chancellor Adolf Hitler wrongly" is his official title.
- He's not often referred to as such though (especially by this stage of his career, by which time his official titles bore little resemblance to his actual powers) - 'dictator', 'leader', etc, is more common. Nick-D (talk) 03:50, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well never really been a fan of using words like 'dictator', 'leader' etc on Wikipedia because it's mostly used in both a positive or negative biased way (depending on the word of course). While the most popular official title is more neutrally than these words. But meh that's of course a personal view.

Bristol Beaufort aircraft making an attack and the crews parachuting over Sweden --> "Bristol Beaufort aircraft making an attack and the crews parachuting over neutral Sweden"?
- Done. I've also tweaked the wording of this material a bit more broadly. Nick-D (talk) 03:50, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
and several armed Norwegian whalers. [17][19][20 Remove the extra space here.
- Done Nick-D (talk) 03:50, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
through the waters between Jan Mayen and Bear Island "through the waters between the islands Jan Mayen and Bear Island" Since Jan Mayen is pretty unknown to the public.
- Done (added a 's' to the end of Bear Island) Nick-D (talk) 03:50, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Home Fleet's deputy commander Vice Admiral Alban Curteis departed Iceland American Vice Admiral here.
- Fixed Nick-D (talk) 03:50, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Victorious' air wing included two squadrons --> "Victorious's air wing included two squadrons"?
- Done Nick-D (talk) 03:50, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
817 Squadron had nine Albacores and 832 Squadron twelve --> "817 Squadron had 9 Albacores and 832 Squadron 12"?
- I've used this wording to avoid swapping between numerals and words in the same sentence. Nick-D (talk) 03:50, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Will do the rest tomorrow. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 14:08, 3 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for these comments Nick-D (talk) 03:50, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Seawolf then sent a radio report of this contact --> "the ship then sent a radio report of this contact" because of WP:SHIPPRONOUNS.
- Tweaked to note it was the crew Nick-D (talk) 09:57, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Tovey received Raikes' report shortly after midnight --> "Tovey received Raikes's report shortly after midnight"
- Done Nick-D (talk) 09:57, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Tovey wanted to use Curteis' force to protect --> "Tovey wanted to use Curteis's force to protect"
- Done Nick-D (talk) 09:57, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Tirpitz failed due to bad weather, and they were sent to Tromsø instead.[47] Tirpitz suffered mechanical Per WP:SHIPPRONOUNS.
- Tweaked Nick-D (talk) 09:57, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
simultaneously between 800 and 1000 yards from the enemy ships No convert? "1000" also needs a comma.
- Fixed Nick-D (talk)
was probably greater than 1,000 yards (910 m) from the battleship Remove the convert here.
- Done Nick-D (talk)
Can you put the section "9–13 March" in chronological order?
- I could, but I don't think it would read as well: this section covers the disjointed activities at the end of the main action, and I think it makes sense to bundle them thematically rather than have the reader repeatedly jump between the doings of groups of ships that no longer had anything to do with one another. Nick-D (talk) 09:57, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
engines over 48 hour period after she arrived Compound adjective here?
- Fixed Nick-D (talk) 09:57, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Section "Aftermath" has a lot of WP:SHIPPRONOUNS issues.
- Fixed, I think Nick-D (talk) 09:57, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's everything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 20:53, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot for this review - I think I may have responded to your comments now. Nick-D (talk) 09:57, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 17:14, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Hawkeye7

Looks good. Some comments:

"The loss of Bismarck left her sister ship, Tirpitz, as Germany's only remaining large battleship." Little confused here. Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were small battleships? (Small isn't usually an adjective associated with battleship.)
- Yep - they had dinky 11 inch guns and were on the small side. They weren't very good battleships as a result. I've tweaked this to 'full-sized' to be clearer though. Nick-D (talk) 01:58, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"defend the area from an Allied invasion, something which the German leader Adolf Hitler wrongly believed the Allies intended." He wasn't wrong though; see Operation Jupiter (Norway).
- I don't think that Churchill ever convinced anyone to try that, and no preparations seem to have been made. The various sources note that Hitler was wrong-headed here. Nick-D (talk) 01:58, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Were there any survivors of the Izhora?
- None of the sources note the fate of the crew, unfortunately (even Woodman who has a real focus on the plight of the merchant seamen) Nick-D (talk) 01:58, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Both were equipped with the Fairey Albacore. 817 Squadron had nine Albacores and 832 Squadron twelve. These biplanes were approaching obsolescence" "Obsolescent" means outdated but still capable of service. "Obsolete" means no longer capable. The Albacore was definitely obsolescent; it was verging on obselete.
- Fixed Nick-D (talk) 06:51, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"The aircraft carrier HMS Victorious, with an escort of a heavy cruiser and four destroyers" Do we know what ships they were?
- The heavy cruiser was HMS Berwick, which I've named, but the destroyers aren't identified (and I'm generally trying to not name British destroyers in this article as there were lots of them, they came and went, and they didn't contribute a great deal to the events individually). Nick-D (talk) 01:58, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"The British destroyers were low on fuel after their search, and headed for Iceland to refuel." RAS might have come in handy here.
- The sources don't discuss it specifically for this operation, but the RN had an aversion to RAS at this stage of the war and operated from fixed bases. Operation Goodwood (naval) in August 1944 seems to have been the only time tankers were used to support ships operating against Tirpitz. Nick-D (talk) 01:58, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Such an attack was difficult for large warships to evade." Also difficult to execute though. I'm struggling to think of when someone managed to pull it off.
- Good point - I've tweaked the wording here to note that it was theoretical. The concept may also have been faulty, as when the Americans torpedoed Musashi from both sides during the Battle of Leyte Gulf it caused her to settle evenly in the water; they learned from this mistake and concentrated their attacks on one side of Yamato in 1945. Nick-D (talk) 06:51, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Churchill knew though that the reason was that Japanese had highly effective aircraft while the Fleet Air Arm did not" That's one thing. Also, weather was fine and sunny, and the Japanese had 88 aircraft, not 12, and their torpedoes were better too.
- I've reworked this material to make better use of the source, which reflects the points on aircraft numbers and quality, as well as crew quality. Nick-D (talk) 01:58, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In the Aftermath I expected mention of Convoy PQ 17, where the mere threat of the Tirpitz caused a convoy to scatter and 24 ships to be sunk.
- I've added a para on this. Nick-D (talk) 06:51, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Typos: "assummed", "Torvey", "Cilax", "{sfn|Konstam|2018|p=38}}", "unmaneuverable", "aicraft"
- Fixed - thanks. Nick-D (talk) 06:51, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:43, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Hawkeye7: thanks for this review. I think that I may have actioned all your comments. Nick-D (talk) 01:58, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. Looks good. Moved to Support. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:29, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Iazyges

Back to A-class reviews for the first time in a hot minute. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 04:37, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lede

but also without success. suggest but were also without success.
- I don't think that's grammatically better, but have tweaked this sentence Nick-D (talk) 10:43, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Background

as Germany's only remaining full-sized battleship. At the time the ship's crew were still being trained suggest as Germany's only remaining full-sized battleship, although at the time the ship's crew were still being trained
- I think that sentence would be too complex Nick-D (talk) 10:43, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
German leader suggest German dictator
- Done Nick-D (talk) 10:43, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
during which Gneisenau, Scharnhorst and Prinz Eugen had returned to Germany remove had.
- Done Nick-D (talk) 10:43, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

German plans

commander Grand Admiral Erich Raeder after consulting with Hitler suggest removing commander
- I think that's needed to establish who he was (especially as there was only one grand admiral). Nick-D (talk) 10:43, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
and only attack convoys if they were protected by an equal or lesser force to his own suggest changing to his own to than his own
- Done Nick-D (talk) 10:43, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

6–7 March

could fly off search aircraft at 10 am suggest could launch search aircraft at 10 am
- Done Nick-D (talk) 10:43, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

9–13 March

The British received reports of her arrival there from Norwegian agents, this was confirmed by a photo reconnaissance aircraft on 18 March suggest The British received reports of her arrival there from Norwegian agents, which was confirmed by a photo reconnaissance aircraft on 18 March
- Done Nick-D (talk) 10:43, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Nick-D: That is all my suggestions. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 05:24, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- @Iazyges: Many thanks for this review. I think that I may have actioned your comments. Nick-D (talk) 10:43, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  Looks good. Iazyges Consermonor Opus meum 17:19, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Thank you again. Nick-D (talk) 08:37, 1 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - pass

All references are high quality.
Spot checks: 1, 2, 8, 15, 21, 27 - all okay.
No problems with formatting or link rot.
Consider linking David K. Brown, Harry Hinsley, Angus Konstam, Stephen Roskill and Richard Woodman
- Done. Thank you for this review. Nick-D (talk) 09:18, 8 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:25, 7 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.