Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Milorad Ekmečić

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Article promoted by Hawkeye7 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 10:20, 23 October 2020 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Milorad Ekmečić

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Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (talk)

Featured article candidates/Milorad Ekmečić/archive1

A bit of a change of pace for me, a Yugoslav and Bosnian Serb historian who "went national" during the Yugoslav Wars, and was one of a group of prominent Yugoslav historians who eschewed the standards of international scholarship and concentrated exclusively on sectarian myths during the period of conflict in the former Yugoslavia, resulting in the production of what has been described by several scholars of the period as "pseudohistory". He was also an advisor to the convicted war criminal Radovan Karadžić during the Bosnian War. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:34, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Only image meets fair use requirements (t · c) buidhe 15:12, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

Some information in the article is sourced to tabloid newspapers, Kurir and Blic. Multiple sources say that Kurir is sensationalist, so it may be unreliable for information. Blic is published by Axel Springer, whose German tabloid Bild is considered unreliable (WP:RSP).

Out of an abundance of caution, I have removed both, replacing them with Novosti and reliable sources already in the article. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:38, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The other sources are reliable. (t · c) buidhe 15:12, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the image and source reviews, buidhe! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:38, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Gog the Mild

Without (yet) reading the article, the lead seems proportionately large, making up over 25% of the prose.

trimmed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:04, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"an analysis of Serbian historiography since that year observed". Optional: Probably technically correct, but it reads oddly that "an analysis" can "observe".

went with "concluded". Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:04, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Academician Milorad-Ekmečić passed away" is in the list of references, but is not used.

Yes, I've removed the citations to Blic on the basis of buidhe's source review. Removed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:04, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"He visited Princeton University for one year" Is it known when?

1961, added, plus a stint at Ann Arbor. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:04, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Initially held in house arrest at the elementary school". Possibly I don't understand what house arrest means, but it doesn't seem to add up that he was held in house arrest in a school. Did the school have accommodation attached? What springs to my mind is a mat in the gym.

This was poorly translated, I have checked the source again and clarified that he was first held in the school, then in house arrest, from which he escaped. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:04, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Ekmečić authored a number of important works in socialist Yugoslavia". Should "in" be 'on'?

again, poorly expressed, changed the sentence to make it clearer, some of his work was actually about pre-Yugoslav times, so it was his work in the time of socialist Yugoslavia that was important (although some of it was also about socialist Yugoslavia, if you see what I mean? Any clearer now? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:04, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Ekmečić participated directly during the Bosnian War". I don't see what "directly" is trying to communicate here. Possibly it needs unpacking a little more.

I meant to make a distinction from those academics that merely barracked from the sidelines, but deleted it as it didn't really achieve much. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:04, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I can't help feeling that I would like more, possibly a lot more, from the penultimate paragraph. It reads almost as if you've censored yourself.

Working... I will re-examine this, and see if there is any more criticisms of his post-1991 works I could add. Frankly, he is just one of many that went this way, which is one reason why I rarely use local post-1991 historians for anything other than bare facts, and even then you have to be careful because of the blatant chauvinism. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:04, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It seemed to be missing a specific, detailed example or three. I imagine that Nielsen and Ramet would not have put the boot in without providing such? Gog the Mild (talk) 16:30, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've located some excellent sources, but have been a bit distracted by an AE matter which is now resolved. Back to this shortly. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:45, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gog the Mild (talk) 15:51, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, Gog, I reckon I've explained his earlier views better now, and supported the criticisms more strongly. How is it reading now? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:54, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That looks good to me. Very nice work. Supporting. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:21, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Hog Farm

"Introduction to the Science of History'" - There appears to be an extra ' in here

Deleted. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:22, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Ekmečić authored a number of important works in socialist Yugoslavia" - Since the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia ceased to exist in 1992, and this is referring to post-1992 events, I assume you mean "on", not "in"

I think I've clarified this now. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:22, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Would it be feasible to briefly state who awarded him those various awards without taking up too much space?

Added one. The source of all but the Enlightenment Award are explained now, I haven't been able to find anything about it, except that the various academies mention it, so it must be important. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:22, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In the prose you spell the author's name MacDonald, but in the references and sources you use Macdonald, it's best to be consistent here

Common issue for me with this guy. Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:22, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"As part of his connection to Karadžić, Ekmečić was also a founder of the radical nationalist Serb Democratic Party in Bosnia and Herzegovina" - could use a timeframe for this

1990, added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:22, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Blic source is listed in the sources, but is not used

Yes, deleted as a result of the source review. Gone now. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:22, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It should be indicated that ""Милорад Екмечић" [Milorad Ekmečić]. Academy of Sciences and Arts of the Republika Srpska. 2017. Retrieved 23 December 2019." is a non-English source

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:22, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work here, I do believe that's all from me. Hog Farm _Bacon 19:10, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for taking a look, Hog Farm. I reckon I might have addressed all your points. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:22, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA-5

Suprises me that this still up after one and a half month. I'll have a quick view.

I think it is because he was a controversial historian, and we don't get too many historians coming through ACR. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead doesn't mention his early life and it can have a little bit more information from his "Career".

Added a bit. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

From October 1944 until July 1945, Ekmečić was a member of the Yugoslav Partisans Was he an armed partisan or just sabotages or something else?

No detail in sources, but given his age (16), he was probably a courier or carried supplies. I haven't been able to find out much about what he did, his detachment isn't even listed in the main text on the Bosnia-Herzegovinian Partisan detachments. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

in three editions and translated into German Unlink German.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He visited Princeton University in 1961 Where is this? Surely the reader would figure it out in Princeton but would probably think "where the hell lies Princeton".

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

time as a visiting professor at the University of Michigan Most people probably wouldn't know in which city the university would lies.

Added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've read the second paragraph without knowing where all these happened? Still in the University of Michigan? It also doesn't help that he is in the next paragraph got arrested at the start of the war. I assume he went back?

No, he was at the UoS from 1968 to 1992, as previously explained, Michigan was just a temporary visiting professorship. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bosnian Serb-controlled proto-state known as the Republika Srpska.[3][1 Re-order the refs.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ekmečić was arrested by the government-loyalist Green Berets Are you referring the Bosnian Government here? Since October 1992 the Croats also declared their independence.

Clarified. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In February 2019, the president of Serbia, Aleksandar Vučić --> "In February 2019, the President of Serbia, Aleksandar Vučić" Title?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

proposed that a street in Belgrade be named after Ekmečić --> "proposed that a street in Belgrade would be named after Ekmečić"?

That's not right, the current wording is fine. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

his views considerably from his earlier days as a unitarian,[17][6] Re-order the refs here.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

religious flavour by claiming that the Catholic Church was the greatest Unlink Catholic Church - is too common to link.

OK. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There's a "check ISSN" error in the "Journals and dissertations" section.

An over-enthusiastic ndash adder, was supposed to be a hyphen. Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Could you at least give us a date at the infobox's image? If not add then "A portrait of".

I can't, don't have one as the source doesn't say when it was taken, but I assume after 1992. The caption is pretty standard, your suggestion is more for alt text or a painting. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ekmečić authored a number of important works --> "Ekmečić authored several important works"

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In this book, Ekmečić drew upon nineteenth century developments --> "In this book, Ekmečić drew upon nineteenth-century developments"?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 01:39, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for looking this over, CPA-5! I think I've addressed everything I can. We disagree on a couple of minor points. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:31, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67: Good morning, hope you had great night? Could you also add a book code or a link for "The Living Word of Milorad Ekmečić". If not then I'm still happy to support. The rest looks fine to me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 09:00, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thanks again, CPA-5! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:20, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.