Wikipedia:WikiProject Latvia/Archive
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This is archive of Wikipedia:WikiProject Latvia.
Recent updates
[edit]- List of castles in Latvia Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 13:22, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
- Edward Roschmann 9 July 2009 Mtsmallwood (talk) 14:48, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
- List of Latvians
- List of German names for Latvian places
- List of people depicted on postage stamps issued by Latvia
- Portal:Latvia
- Riga Central Market — needs more general description. — HELLKNOWZ ▎TALK 21:28, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
- St. Peter's Church, Riga — Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 14:01, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
New articles added manually
[edit]- Arvīds Bredermanis, scouting pioneer — Zalktis 17:18, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
- Harald Schlegelmilch --SpeedKing1980 15:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
- Preiļi --Gragox 15:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
- Segodnya (Riga), major Russian-language, liberal-democratic newspaper published in Riga, 1919–1940; stub — Zalktis 09:54, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
- Andis Juška Gragox 16:47, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
- Riga Zoo---- Xil/talk 23:28, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
- Čabulītis, exceptionally old and now deceased alligator who lived in Riga Zoo ---- Xil/talk 18:54, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
- MV Sovetskaya Latviya, Gulag ship (ex-Hercogs Jēkabs) stub — Zalktis 07:57, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
- January 1991 events in Latvia - ---- Xil/talk 20:50, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
- Brīvā Latvija, newspaper disamb./stub — Zalktis 21:05, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
- Latvian Socialist Soviet Republic, stub. -- Zalktis 08:52, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
- Riga Central Market (stub, can be expanded by means of link given there as reference, perhaps bad english (I didn't check it that is) 06:43, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
- Jānis Balodis - 19 June (stub, needs to be expanded by someone who understands Latvian)
- Saldus - 17 June
- Pasažieru Vilciens - 17 June 2007
- Rīgas Satiksme - 12 June 2007
- Aivars Endziņš - 15:48, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
- Order of the Three Stars - 17:19, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
- Melngalvju nams - May 17, 2007.
- Culture of Latvia
- Latvian Legion Day
- Zigfrīds Anna Meierovics
- Atis Kronvalds
- Latvian Song and Dance Festival
- Art Academy of Latvia
- Brothers' Cemetery (Riga)
- Janis Tilbergs
- Bikernieki Memorial -- Holocaust victim war memorial in Bikernieki forest — HELLKNOWZ ▎TALK 12:26, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
- Eduard von der Ropp - Roman Catholic metropolitan archbishop, Mark Liepa (talk) 20:05, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
- Diocese of Inflanty - Roman Catholic diocese during Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth period, Mark Liepa (talk) 02:49, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
- Elina Ringa - The first Latvian female pole-vaulter, October 2010
- Boļeslavs Sloskāns - Roman Catholic bishop, Mark Liepa (talk) 15:38, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
- Johann Felsko — Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 07:34, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
- Pokrov Cemetery, translated from lv:Pokrova kapi — Hellknowz ▎talk 14:43, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
- Ilmārs Poikāns, the Latvian "Robin Hood" - Tank-En-Mate 09:30, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
- The Case for Latvia, currently the most sold book in Latvia (in the Latvian language version) — Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 22:07, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
- Microphone Records — Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 18:49, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
- Brīvā Latvija (1943–44): split off an article on Brīvā Latvija. Latvju Raksti from the article Brīvā Latvija — Zalktis (talk) 16:32, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
- Georg Kuphaldt, architect of the gardens and parks of Riga — Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 20:43, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
- Museum of the History of Riga and Navigation — Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 18:25, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
- Arnolds Spekke — Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 15:37, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
- Latvijas Radio — Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 20:23, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
- White Tights – alleged Baltic female snipers! —Zalktis (talk) 11:50, 4 December 2008 (UTC)
- Uldis Ģērmanis — Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 19:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
- Jānis Vanags, by Terot, 9 September 2008
- Jorģis Zemitāns — Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 20:50, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
- Riga Pride and Friendship Days —Zalktis (talk) 15:40, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
- Constitutional Court of the Republic of Latvia ~~Xil * 22:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
- Alexander Leutner & Co., pre-WWI bicycle, motorcycle, and car manufacturer —Zalktis (talk) 16:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
- Arturs Sproģis, Latvian Red Partisan leader —Zalktis (talk) 17:34, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
- Latvia at the 2008 Summer Olympics - -Gragox (talk) 11:02, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
- Laima (confectioner), chocolate etc. manufacturer —Zalktis (talk) 20:25, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
- Anatols Dinbergs, Latvian diplomat - —PētersV (talk) 21:17, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
- Rīgas Vagonbūves Rūpnīca, Latvian train builder - LanarkLiberal 11:32, 06 December 2007
Collaboration of the month
[edit]- September 2007: Vaira Vīķe-Freiberga
- October 2007: Rainis
- November 2007: Baltic states
- December 2007: 2006 Riga Summit
- January 2008: Latvian SSR
- February 2008: Liepāja
- March 2008: Language policy in Latvia
- April 2008: Latvian Riflemen
- May 2008: Riga
- June 2008: Livonian people
- July 2008: Minox
- September: Zole
Previous nominations
[edit]For October 2007
- Rainis (of course!) — Zalktis 13:42, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
- Formal support because it is October allready ---- Xil...sist! 15:59, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
- Latvian SSR (important to history of Latvia) -- Xil/talk 22:40, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
For October 2007
- Baltic states (quite long and good writen article, which should be referenced better and improved a bit) ---- Xil...sist! 23:41, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
- Support. This could even get nominated for Good Article status. --SpeedKing1980 16:29, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
- Lāčplēsis, or even Lāčplēsis Day — Zalktis 16:48, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose - Too short, and dosn't even exist. Basicly these need to be writen not just improved ---- Xil...sist! 21:28, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
For December 2007
- 2006 Riga Summit (in my opinion, a long and good article) --SpeedKing 09:19, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
- Put this up as it was the only nomination ~~Xil...sist! 22:57, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
For January 2007
- Latvian SSR This article should be improved. --SpeedKing (talk) 19:25, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
- Selected this one as it was the only nomination and had been nominated before ~~Xil...sist! 03:55, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Article requests
[edit]- Jersika, a medieval castle. Renata (talk) 20:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
- Līvõd Rãnda, Livonian villages on the Livonian Coast — Philaweb T 11:55, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
- Jersika, ancient principality. Clarification needed! Latgale describes Jersika as a Baltic polity, while History of Russians in Latvia portrays it as an East Slavic one. — Zalktis 16:56, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
- Riga Graduate School of Law, institution on higher education (already mentioned in a handful of articles) — Zalktis 18:45, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
- Arvīds Bredermanis, who established the first Scout troop in Latvia on April 17, 1917 under tsarist Russia
- (possibly http://www.mfa.gov.lv/lv/Ministrija/vesture/4439/4446/ ?)
- Maybe; see: http://www.lv.lv/index.php?menu_body=DOC&id=32701&menu_left=LAIDIENS&PHPSESSID=7d82f444214d94ced3226de5f31e3c — Zalktis 10:30, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks! The link comes up broken for me, perhaps you could grab the text? Thanks, Chris 07:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
- There is a slight problem - the first link dosen't mention scouts, the one Zalktis provaided doesn't mention his name. Here's what it says about scouts: In 1918 outside of Latvia, in Vitebsk, colors of Latvian flag are found in flag of local boyscout troop "Imanta". This troop was established in 1917 by A.Arends on his initiative Fr. Kalniņš made the scout flag which had image St. George on blue field on one side and Latvian flag with full name of the troop on other side. Similary in mid 1918 in Samāra A.Bredermanis established Latvian scout troop, members of this troop wore oval ensign with colors of Latvian flag on left hand sleeve of uniform
In first link it says that in 1919 he joined troop Imanta, but it doesn't say that this troop was a sscout troop and he was born in 1900 (I somehow am under impression that scout troops are established by a bit older people and meant for a bit younger people). I don't think there is place called Samāra in Latvia, I think it's rather Samara, Russia (if so perhaps it's more accurate to say that he established Latvian not in Latvia) ---- Xil/talk 23:22, 20 August 2007 (UTC)- You are right on both points, Xil: 1) Imantas pulks was a military formation during the Russian Civil War, not a scout troop. 2) The Latvian scout troop founded by Bredermanis in Samara, Russia (among Latvian refugees from the German occupation of the Baltics during WWI), as mentioned in the article I cited, was not the first ever Latvian scout troop. I'm also not sure that the Bredermanis who worked for the Foreign Ministry was the same one who helped found the Latvian Boy Scouts. A relative perhaps? Can someone check Konversācijas vārdnīca on Bredermanis and scouting? — Zalktis 06:31, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
- There is a slight problem - the first link dosen't mention scouts, the one Zalktis provaided doesn't mention his name. Here's what it says about scouts: In 1918 outside of Latvia, in Vitebsk, colors of Latvian flag are found in flag of local boyscout troop "Imanta". This troop was established in 1917 by A.Arends on his initiative Fr. Kalniņš made the scout flag which had image St. George on blue field on one side and Latvian flag with full name of the troop on other side. Similary in mid 1918 in Samāra A.Bredermanis established Latvian scout troop, members of this troop wore oval ensign with colors of Latvian flag on left hand sleeve of uniform
- Thanks! The link comes up broken for me, perhaps you could grab the text? Thanks, Chris 07:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
- Maybe; see: http://www.lv.lv/index.php?menu_body=DOC&id=32701&menu_left=LAIDIENS&PHPSESSID=7d82f444214d94ced3226de5f31e3c — Zalktis 10:30, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
- (possibly http://www.mfa.gov.lv/lv/Ministrija/vesture/4439/4446/ ?)
- Well, then I definitely want to make the article factual and correct, even if I have to rewrite that section. The info in the article was on the Internet, and I had done a paper on Latvian Scouting in college 15 years ago, which likely has totally different info, but I can't find it, and if I could, how do I post it, as original research? It does have footnotes and all, but... Also, if anyone is in the NYC area, their public library has a 1920s Latvian Scout Handbook, that may have some info there, but they will not Interlibrary Loan it, I don't blame them. Chris 21:24, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
- Having consulted Latviešu skautisma četrdesmit gadi (1960), I am now sure that the scouting pioneer actually was the same person as the later Foreign Ministry official. — Zalktis 16:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
- And he established his troop in Riga, so it was the first troop founded in Latvia but was not the first troop with a majority of Latvian members. — Zalktis 16:16, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
- Created. —PētersV (talk) 21:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
- Kristers Serģis - see WT:BSNB#Kristers_Sergis ~~Xil * 07:19, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
- Museum of the Occupation of Latvia (website) - Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 10:22, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
- Aizsargi, interwar paramilitary and socio-political organisation — Zalktis (talk) 05:51, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
- Pēterupe, river in Saulkrasti municipality, village Pēterupe formation place, stub is sufficient, see Latvian Wiki for sources used on other similar rivers, e.g. lv:Ķīšupe (upe). — HELLKNOWZ ▎TALK
- Latvian Agrarian Reform or 1920 Latvian Agrarian Reform - important reform with repercussions for the nobility. Talk/♥фĩłдωəß♥\Work 14:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
- Bikur Holim Hospital (Riga) Jewish Hospital, Riga — Zalktis
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- Iskolastrel, Latvian Riflemen soldiers' soviet 1917–18 — Zalktis
- People's Saeima the Soviet puppet parliament of WWII -- Xil...sist! 22:28, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
- Raimunds Čaks, journalist, Daugavas Vanagi (Latvian Welfare Association)
- Sakta Latvian national brooch Denis tarasov 10:42, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
- Suiti, ethnographic group in Kurzeme — Zalktis 06:34, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
- Valdemar Kletniek, Scout Commissioner, who fled to the U.S. in the 1940s when the USSR abolished Latvian Scouting Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 21:27, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
- Riga Forest Cemetery - lv:Rīgas_Meža_kapi
- Rainis Cemetery
Translation requests
[edit]- lv:Janis Rozentāls; lt:Janis Rozentāls → Janis Rozentāls - an artist -- Xil/talk
- lv:Vilis Olavs → Vilis Olavs journalist and activist, best known for establishing refugee camps for Latvians during WWI---- Xil/talk
- lv:Gaujas nacionālais parks; de:Nationalpark Gauja; fr:Parc national de Gauja; lt:Gaujos nacionalinis parkas → Gauja National Park -- Xil/talk 18:22, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
- lv:Frīdrihs Ketlers; de:Friedrich I. (Kurland und Semgallen); nl:Frederik Kettler; pl:Fryderyk Kettler → Friedrich Kettler duke of Courland---- Xil/talk
- lv:Vilhelms Ketlers; de:Wilhelm (Kurland) → Wilhelm Kettler duke of Courland---- Xil/talk
- User:Läyhä asked me if someone fluent in Latvian could translate [2] for article on Voldemars Veiss, in order to add information about his pre-WWII career. The text is short (as is my knowledge about military) -- Xil...sist! 13:12, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
- lv:Pokrova_kapi → Pokrov Cemetery — Done. — Hellknowz ▎talk 14:41, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
- de:Salaspils (Lager) → Salaspils concentration camp — Zalktis 15:23, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
- lv:Ķīšupe (upe) → Ķīšupe — HELLKNOWZ ▎TALK
- lv:Inčupe → Inčupe — HELLKNOWZ ▎TALK
- lv:Aģe → Aģe — HELLKNOWZ ▎TALK
- Hi, I'd really appreciate it if someone could translate this article http://www.micrec.lv/news/news/article.php?id=199298 about Latvian music charts. I have recently requested restoration of the deleted Latvian Airplay Top Wikipedia article and for this chart to be accepted as a reliable source in articles about Latvian subjects. However, other editors are undecided because these charts appear to be maintained as a hobby by one individual, and we need information about their status and methods from other sources. I tried using Google Translate and the result didn't make much sense, but I understood enough to believe that the article contains the information I need. If you don't have time to translate the whole article, an English summary of its main points would be useful. I think the article is questioning the accuracy of the charts as an indication of popularity, and that it says the Latvian Airplay Top 50 is an entirely airplay-based chart whereas the Latvian "Spice" Music Chart is at least partly vote-based: can someone please confirm this? Contains Mild Peril (talk) 20:28, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Expansion requests
[edit]- Valdis Zatlers - article is taged with expansion request, also I've request a photo of subject on its talk page ---- Xil/talk 15:31, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
- Delfi.lt — expand article to reflect pan-Baltic importance. —Zalktis (talk) 12:02, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
- Latvian Riflemen has more speculations on their red-ness than information on what they did (especialy in Latvia) and why, completly lacks information on how these units were formed ----Xil...sist! 18:20, 15 October 2007 (UTC)--
- From my readings, a central theme is European communism versus Bolshevik communism. The Latvian communist tradition grew from the European one. The Latvians mistook Bolshevism for communism, also taking promises of Latvian sovereignty at face value. As I recall. — Pēters J. Vecrumba 22:08, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
- As far as I know they sided with communist because they saw a hope for freedom in it, they fought against the Germans and believed that Ulmanis government was German puppet government. They were supported by general public and therefore they gained swift victory at first. But then they established communism which led to famine and Germans tried to throw down Ulmanis government. This showed that Ulmanis government wasn't German and communism was wrong and many riflemen deserted and/or joined Latvian army----Xil...sist! 23:45, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
- Latvian humour---- This is an example request, all examples given more or less fit under given criteria, however these should not be concidered very important requests Xil/talk 00:19, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- Arvīds Pelše- Communist Latvian, one of the most influential latvians in the USSR, yet one of the least know. Superzohar Talk 19:02, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Media requests
[edit]- A picture of the monument to Kārlis Ulmanis in downtown Riga, for addition to the article on same. — Zalktis 14:02, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
- There are some on commons - Image:Kārlis Ulmanis, Riga.jpg and Image:Ulmanis monument.jpg and BTW I have some more, I don't whant to overflood wikipedia with similar pictures, but if you want a view from different angle ask me -- Xil/talk 14:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Free photo of Helsinki-86 (preferably depicting their demonstration on 14 June 1987) ---- Xil/talk 00:19, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
- Note: I need this image mainly to illustrate the article Freedom Monument (Riga). I'd be also happy to have an image of the monument during restoration and the "flower path" (and while I was searching for an example for that, I found another beautiful picture [3], well in short - if you have pictures of the freedom monument that are as unique as those I'm requesting, please upload them and notify me)-- Xil/talk 22:34, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
- Can someone proficient in such things see if there's a way we could use one of the photos of Rainis from either w:lv:Rainis or w:ru:Ян Райнис to help illustrate the English article? — Zalktis 17:09, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
- I don't think so - I think that Russian picture was deleted here, and there is no information about author of Latvian picture, which is taken in 1920s. I'll try to find something else---- Xil...sist! 18:21, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
- I wrote to the Latvian Academic Library regarding a particular picture I found in their collection if it could specifically be used in the article here. — Pēters J. Vecrumba 18:09, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
- I don't think so - I think that Russian picture was deleted here, and there is no information about author of Latvian picture, which is taken in 1920s. I'll try to find something else---- Xil...sist! 18:21, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
- Pictures of Latvian presidents Jānis Čakste, Gustavs Zemgals and Alberts Kviesis, those that were on Wikipedia were recently deleted, because of missing source information ---- Xil/talk 00:44, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- Some time ago I was asked for a "picture of a memorial to Latvian army officers, assassinated in Litene in 1941" ---- Xil/talk 17:37, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Review requests
[edit]- Rīgas Satiksme - just created this page on the basis of my own personal knowledge of the transport system in Riga and information from the official website. Any views and comments would be appreciated.
- January 1991 events in Latvia - I just created the article. It should be checked for mistakes by someone, if you think some reference is missing, ask about it so I can add the while I remember where I got that ---- Xil/talk 20:55, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
- Constitution of Latvia - I am fresh out of ideas, so some second opinion would be helpful (just read it and tell me what you think) ~~Xil...sist! 06:20, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
- Edward Roschmann. I expanded this article based on factual information rather than the novel which seems to have been the main source for the prior version.Mtsmallwood (talk) 14:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Discussions
[edit]- I have requested peer review for Freedom Monument (Riga). It's here---- Xil/talk 20:26, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- Peer review for Occupations of Latvia has been requested by User:Termer (on 9 August). It is here---- Xil/talk 09:04, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
- I've nominated Freedom Monument for FA satus, discussion - Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Freedom Monument (Riga)---- Xil...sist! 17:47, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
- Article was promoted -- Xil...sist! 14:11, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- Denial of Soviet occupation has been nominated for deletion, discussion - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Denial of Soviet occupation ---- Xil...sist! 14:13, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- Article was deleted ---- Xil...sist! 22:37, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
- Baltic Republics - User:Termer insists that this article is POV and should be merged into Baltic states --Xil...sist! 16:04, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
- Articles were merged --Xil...sist! 19:16, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
- Talk:Baltic states#Rename User:Termer thinks that the article should be moved to Baltic countries (IMO very bad idea as it can be mixed with Baltic Sea countries and isn't the most popular name) ~~Xil...sist! 22:57, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
- Template talk:Latvia Presidents - should the template list only presidents of Latvia or acting president Gorbunovs (and probably some other induviduals) as well or should the design be changed to simplier version I've offered on talkpage --~~Xil...sist! 07:53, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
- Talk:Latvian humour - User:Liftarn insists that a joke about high numbers of Russians in Latvia must be left in the article altough several people have objected ~~Xil...sist! 11:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Articles that need cleanup
[edit]- Latvian partisans a new article that is a bit of a problem, since it's largely a cut-and-paste compoilation from other articles. Can we not just suffice with a disambiguation page pointing to the various existing articles from whence this information originally was taken? —Zalktis (talk) 14:20, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
- Latvian SSR -- This is an example request, all examples given more or less fit under given criteria, however these should not be concidered very important requests Xil/talk 00:19, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Non-neutral articles
[edit]- Dienas Lapa reads far too much like Soviet propaganda; no wonder since it is based entirely on the Soviet version from the BSE. During Tsarist times even "bourgeois" (i.e. liberal) ideas were "progressive". Furthermore, the newspaper was never exclusively Marxist in its orientation, even under Stučka's editorship. —Zalktis (talk) 05:23, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
- Kārlis Ulmanis - I just noticed that User:OzzieBender has recently expanded it (Diff), it appears that there is some POV (e.g. "his personality cult [..] tended to the nauseous") and some facts that might not be accurate (e.g. "“enemies” of Ulmanis’ rule and were herded into a concentration camp")---- Xil/talk 02:56, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Accuracy problems and missing sources
[edit]- Latvian mythology is a mess, someone who can tell difference between Latvian Neopaganism and Folklore could help to sort it out ---- Xil/talk 00:19, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
'I agree, but think it should go much further: the article is such a mess, it should be deleted because it creates much confusion (not just between Latvian Neopaganism and Folklore, but by borrowing from other mythologies without proper citations). It is beyond simple review and needs a suitable authority to rewrite it from scratch. --The Lesser Merlin (talk) 09:11, 22 September 2010 (UTC)