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Can I...?

I think I've been asking myself this question since I discovered Wikipedia, and some of my friends have asking me that too. Can I use Wikipedia's given infirmation in another site?? Miss Bono (talk) 12:28, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Absolutely, but you must provide attribution to Wikipedia's authors when you do so. Please see Wikipedia:Reusing Wikipedia content. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:41, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Generally providing a link to the article history from the point of the last edit when you post the article is considered proper attribution I believe.--Amadscientist (talk) 00:27, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Would you mind re-phrasing that please, with some punctuation - I'm having trouble de-cyphering it. !\) Jodosma (talk) 18:51, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
Providing a link to the revision you used, is considered proper attribution (I believe). — nerdfighter 19:18, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

I have a book which was published in 1905 in the UK. The author died in 1928 so by UK copyright law, because it is over 70 years since the author's death the original work is no longer copyright protected. But my copy is a facsimile, published in 1993. As I understand it, a facsimile is a replica (or exact copy) of the original work, so that the facsimile is not copyright protected, therefore I am allowed to reproduce any part of this book (including diagrams) without fear of prosecution (for instance by using Wikipedia's own editing facilities). I think I'm on safe ground here but I would appreciate a confirmation from anyone out there who knows about this sort of thing. Jodosma (talk) 20:19, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse! My instinct is that you would be OK, but I am also not a copyright expert. Nthep, are you out there? We'll get you an answer sooner or later :) Go Phightins! 20:21, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Though for clarity, what exactly do you want to do with it? You can certainly cite it. As for the diagrams, that is what I am unsure of. Go Phightins! 20:22, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, I went to the "confirmed" link in your message. I hope that goes through. I appreciate the quick reply.

I'm amazed at all the wikipedia has to offer! I wish I had created an account long ago. Tamielutz (talk) 21:00, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Jodosma, under UK copyright law, the copyright on the book expired on 31 December 1988 (the end of the year the author died plus 70 years) therefore the content is out of copyright. With regard to the reproduction copy what you need to be certain of is that it is a facsimile reproduction and reuses the typographical layout from the 1905 edition. If it does then you can reproduce that text and images etc using the typographical layout from the book, for example you could scan pages of the book and upload them as the typographical arrangement is not new.([1]) If however the 1993 publication has re-typeset the content then that does introduce a new copyright of 25 years on the typographical arrangement only ([2]) and although you could reproduce the content you could not use a scan of the page. You also need to remember that if the facsimile edition contains any new additional content such as an introduction from the re-publisher that new content is copyright and belongs to the re-publisher. For example if I had just (2013) published a new edition of Shakespeare's Richard III you are welcome to use my book to copy out "Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious summer by this sun of York ..." but you can't use a scan of that page from my book because I own the copyright on the typography until the end of 2038 (publication plus 25 years) and any new introduction is copyright until I have been dead 75 years. Hope this helps but please ask for clarification if anything is unclear. NtheP (talk) 21:39, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Told you Nthep would help us out Go Phightins! 21:44, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Hey Jodosma. One additional issue is that attribution is still required. Even if some text, image, diagram, map, etc. is in the public domain, you must still provide attribution to the source to avoid plagiarism. For example, if I take a paragraph of text from a pre-1923 published U.S. book, that text is public domain and thus using it is not (and cannot) be copyright infringement, but my use without attribution to the source, thus not telling the reader "this comes from somewhere else" and thereby implying it is my original work, is plagiarism. For a diagram, assuming that it is one containing sufficiently creative content (some diagrams may be so plain and obvious that neither copyright [nor plagiarism] would apply; see Threshold of originality) you can use it but must provide attribution by some method, such as through an inline citation, in-text attribution, or both. As a working example, in writing Masako Katsura I redrew a chart and provided both in-text attribution and a citation. See Masako Katsura#Detail of play. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:21, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Thankyou for all your contributions, much appreciated, I think I'm in the picture now ('scuse the pun), and on safe ground. In case you want to see it the diagram I'm using is of a family tree of the de Lacy's which I intend to put in Pontefract I won't use a scan of the page because the quality isn't good enough but instead I'm using the Wiki template to produce it. If you want to see it please click here. Jodosma (talk) 19:23, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Donghak Peasant Revolution

Donghak Peasant Revolution has been edited only by me, bots, and AWB for over three months. How come nobody helps me out? This has really discouraged my edits, as you can see - my edits per day on the article has been declining. Can WP really succeed? I thought so before this.--Seonookim (What I've done so far) (I'm busy here) (Tell me your requests) 07:48, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Seonookim, have you tried asking at the relevant Wikiprojects for help? For example, try asking at the Military History or Korea Wikiprojects. I'm pretty sure the folks over there would be happy to help or at least offer some advice, particularly if you intend to take the article to Good Article status or higher. You seem to have done quite well so far. Chamal T•C 06:11, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Off topic, your signature is a good one! But you can change it to something simple like Example (Talk) --Tito Dutta (contact) 15:23, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
If anyone has time, I would prefer it if all the refs were cleaned up through {{cite book}}.--Seonookim (What I've done so far) (I'm busy here) (Tell me your requests) 07:48, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Also, I followed Chamal's advice, but only a single editor edited.--Seonookim (What I've done so far) (I'm busy here) (Tell me your requests) 07:48, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
I have changed many plain references to cite book template. Hope this will encourage you to improve the article. --Ushau97 talk 18:15, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! But Yi Yihwa's book was the same with Donghak Peasant Revolution:A Revolution of Freedom and Equality. But I guess it's my fault you didn't get that.--Seonookim (What I've done so far) (I'm busy here) (Tell me your requests) 07:48, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Hehe. I am not familiar with Korean names. That is the reason why I left out some refs without changing to cite book. I didn't know whether it was the publisher or name of the author in some cases :P . By the way, have you ever thought of listing it at WP:GAN. Since you worked so hard on it, if it meets WP:GACR, it might get good article status. Thanks --Ushau97 talk 10:05, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
I'll fill in more using this link. If you'd like to contribute, here.--Seonookim (What I've done so far) (I'm busy here) (Tell me your requests) 06:46, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

updating references

Hi I'm a neubie - I have an updated link for a broken reference (no. 24) on this page here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Government#cite_note-24

Sadly the reason the link went dead in the first place is a change of government who then reversed all the E-Government initiatives of the previous government and along the way erased all trace of them.

Now when I go to edit the References section on the page all I see is "Reflist|35em". I can't see any obvious way of getting in and updating the dead link. I know this is probably obvious somewhere but I haven't had much luck searching for an answer as yet.

Any help here?

Best regards,

Stephenthorpe (talk) 03:31, 31 March 2013 (UTC) Stephen Stephenthorpe (talk) 03:31, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Hey, Stephen, welcome to the Teahouse! The way reflists work is that the references are actually defined in the body of the article, where the inline citation is listed. So, in this case, you'd click on the carat symbol in the front of reference 24 and see where that goes in the body of the article (here, the last sentence of the "Democratization" section). Once you've found that, go to that same place in the edit screen, and you should see the URL for the reference sandwiched between two ref tags (<ref> ... </ref>). It's a counter-intuitive way for references to work, but it's actually pretty nice when writing an article. Does that help? Writ Keeper (t + c) 03:38, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Brilliant - thanks very much - all sorted now! Stephenthorpe (talk) Stephen

Nav Box for user page sub pages??

I have asked this on my talk page but like to get a second opinion about user created navigational boxes for User prefixed pages like User:Sundogs/World Championship Wrestling, User:Sundogs/Jason Bourne, and vast amount of Jason Bourne related topics like novels, character bio, and movies. I am attending to the navigational box template strictly to be used for these user sub pages at the bottom so that other user can access them from said sub page. Is this allowed? Sundogs Wikia UserPage 00:42, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

User Talk Page Archives

The two new user talk archives that I have created seems half done. I mean, Archive 6 shows up in the Archive bar but not Archive 7. They were timestamped and 00:02 and 00:03 UTC-6 (US Central Time) and I don't know to have Archive 7 to be brought up. I have cleared my history and cookies. I have also to ALT + F5 to hard refresh and both don't seem to help. Will Archive 7 be available to see on the next new day or next time the refresh of Wikipedia sets of 00:00 UTC-0 or on my time 00:00 UTC-6? Sundogs Wikia UserPage 23:57, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

I see "Archives 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7". Perhaps it was a caching issue where it took a moment. If you're still not seeing them all, then there is something "stuck" on your end. — User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended) 00:04, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
I see 1 through 6 but 7 is not showing. I cached out everything imagebale that I think of (note to wise I have 26 years experience on a computer and still learning new tricks). Called IT department and say it's Wikipedia end problem since all network computers have same issue. Sundogs Wikia UserPage 00:17, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Finally found what the cause is, the cache within the page was not registering. What I mean by that is, it was definitely was Wikipedia not caching the page accordingly. So, this issue is solved. Sundogs Wikia UserPage 01:33, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

New proposals. How do you do it?

I recently had my Olympic results index accepted and I'm using it all the time. I would like to create more articles of a similar nature but I'm having some misgivings. Does anyone think that there could be a new area of Wikipedia for articles such as this with the generic name of Index, which would provide a different group of articles than is available with the Category idea? I would love to turn this into a proposal but there doesn't seem to be a WP:Proposals sector. Jodosma (talk) 21:14, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

The village pump, which you linked to above, would be the right place for a proposal. FrigidNinja 21:19, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Infobox

How can I add Infobox? Please explain simply. If possible, respond in my talk page.Sureshkumarmalayil (talk) 12:23, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to the TeaHouse! Hosts have to respond here so that the answers to the questions end up in the archives. The easiest way to find an appropriate infobox is to search "template:infobox ______". (Without scare quotes, replace ___ with the subject you want an infobox for). Thanks! — nerdfighter 13:12, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Adding pictures and other media

Hi guys, hope this meets you well?


I basically would like to know the exact procedure for adding pictures and other media into the archives/commons. I have read the help files and I uploaded some pictures but they got deleted.

I would basically like to know if pictures are allowed if they are anywhere else on the web even if I have a consent to use them. Do I need some way of proving that I have the consent to use those pictures?

What do I do also when the picture was taken personally? How do I prove that? Do I just write it in the description?

Thanks and kind regards

LOVE (talk) 01:42, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello Toludpilgrim, and welcome! Yes, if the picture you are uploading was published previously on the web prior to you uploading it at either Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons, you do need to prove that it is your picture, and that you do have permission to license it for use. Make sure, first of all, that you understand the implications of licensing your pictures under the cc-by-sa and GFDL licenses. The basic premise is that, while you still own the copyright on the pictures, you are agreeing to allow others to copy your pictures and reuse them as they wish, so long as they correctly attribute you and also use the licenses themselves. If you're still OK with that, procedures for proving your ownership of the copyright on previously published pictures can be found by following the shortcut WP:IOWN (for a short set of instructions) or Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for a longer more detailed set of instructions. Rather than copy that information, I'll let you read those two pages yourself. If you have any further specific questions, or if something about those is unclear, please feel free to ask for further clarification. Does that help? --Jayron32 01:59, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Oh, also if you're uploading a picture you have just taken yourself, and have never previously published, you can do so at http://commons.wikimedia.org . Use the standard Commons uploading procedure, that is just fill in all the blanks and it walks you through the process. Make sure you select the correct license tags, and clearly identify that you took the picture yourself, and fill out all of the relevant information, and that should be it. --Jayron32 02:02, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Jayron,

LOVE (talk) 23:50, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Still can't use STiki

Hi, I have downloaded Java software required for STiki. But when I open the *JAR file, Internet Explorer is opened and a popup asks me whether I want to "Open" or "Save as". However, whiochever button I click, I still can't use STiki, although Java is asking to run. Then, when I tried to open with Google Chrome, which I usually use for my browser, a note at the bottom of the screen tells me that opening this kind of file may harm my computer. What's wrong with this whole thing? Arctic Kangaroo 14:55, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Hey :) STiki is a .jar file, which is what is known as a "java applet". For this reason, you need not only the internet java, but the java runtime environment in order to run it. Google that and you should find it. That's also probably (if you don't have that installed) why you get the error/warning messages, although the Chrome warning is because Chrome does that the first time you open any .exe, .jar, or similar file that is often malicious :) gwickwiretalkediting 15:00, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
But is it safe to use this STiki on Chrome and ignore the warning message? Arctic Kangaroo 15:32, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
I'd say it is totally safe to try (I've opened it quite a bit in my day), but you may need the java runtime environment for it to work :) I can say there's no malware etc. on it, that's just a Chrome standard .exe/.jar warning. gwickwiretalkediting 15:43, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
If you haven't installed Java, choose the offline installer at here. --Ushau97 talk 15:55, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Ushau97: I installed the online version. So, do you mean that actually the offline version is needed for STiki? Arctic Kangaroo 06:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
No, that's not how that works. Either way you install offline or online, the same software is installed. Normally, offline installers are more reliable than online installers. That is the reason why I said so. If you are still not able to access STiki, let me tell you how to do it from A to Z. First, if you have installed Java uninstall it completely. Install Java using the offline installer. A notice will appear whether you want to download it or not. Don't worry that notice will come up since it is an exe file. Java Runtime Environment is a very common software, so you can be sure that it is completely harmless. After the download is complete, install it. just press next. When the installation is complete, reboot your PC. This is not mandatory, however just to be on the safe side. Then you could download STiki from here. After that extract the ZIP file. Then open the JAR file inside the folder. That's it. If any problem comes up, let me know. --Ushau97 talk 09:08, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
I have done the above you mentioned, but when I open the JAR file, Internet Explorer opens and asks me if I want to open, save or save as. Whatever I click, then this download log screen will appear. Then, I still can't open it. Is it because my Internet Explorer version is IE9? And also, if I try to use Chrome, I click "Keep" at the bottom note, but they will redirect me to IE. Arctic Kangaroo 02:26, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
I think I have figured out the problem. When you double click the JAR file, the file is opened with IE, right? If so, the problem in your system is, the program associated with JAR files is IE. IE can't open JAR files, so what you have to do is change the program which opens JAR files to Java SE Binary. This is very easy. Just right-click on the JAR file and click on Properties. Then in the Properties window, in the General tab you'll find a button labelled Changed.... Press on it and a dialog box named Open with with will come up. From there you'll find a program named Java(TM) Platform SE binary. Double click on it and press OK in the Properties window. Now open STiki. Hopefully, you'll be able to open it. Cheers! --Ushau97 talk 06:30, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Hmmm...do I need to download Java SE Binary? And, in the General tab, there isn't any Change button. Could it be because I'm using Windows Vista? Arctic Kangaroo 06:40, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
You have already downloaded and installed Java, right? If so, you don't need to repeat it. This is how you change default programs in Vista. Type in default programs into Start. Click on Default Programs. On the window that comes up, click on Associate a file type or protocol with a program. I'm not sure of the exact wording in Vista, so click on the one nearest to this wording. Wait for sometime until all the extensions are loaded. From there, click on .jar. Click on the Change program button. From there you'll find Java(TM) Platform SE binary. Double click on it. Done. --Ushau97 talk 06:53, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
I managed to complete the above-mentioned steps. But when I wanted to open the JAR file, which now says that it would be opened with Java(TM) Platform SE binary, a window (should be STiki) popped up and then closed. Then, I tried to open it again but the same thing happened. Any idea about this? Arctic Kangaroo 06:59, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Sorry. I dunno about that. Try downloading STiki again. --Ushau97 talk 07:04, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

What's wrong with my articles?

Hi, I've recently created 2 articles - biography about living researcher. One is in English Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasa_Levickait%C4%97, another is in Lithuanian: http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasa_Levickaite. I've been editing it ever since, but different messages still appear, that articles need to be fixed. I've read guidelines for biographies and as far as I understand,articles meet all the requirements. Could you please help me and tell what is exactly wrong with my articles? Because I run out of ideas, what else should I fix... And one more thing – I can’t find a place where to edit copyright information about this file Rasa Levickaite.JPG Sabinasvanba (talk) 07:19, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse! There are three major issues with the article Rasa Levickaite. First issue is that the article does not meet Wikipedia's notability guideline for biographies. Notability is a guideline which all Wikipedia articles should follow. A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject. I did a Google search and only about 1640 results came up, so I can't say that the subject of the article is not notable enough. However with that I can't conclude. There might be offline sources. If you have any of them please do add them to the article. There is not much you can do with the notability of the subject.
Second problem with the article is that the article does not have enough categories. As of now, the article has only two categories. Please categorize the article more specifically so that readers can browse related articles easily and quickly. You can find related categories by doing a search in Wikipedia in the category namespace. You do it like this: Go to Special:Search and press Advanced. Then select Category and type in the related keywords and press Search.
Third problem with Rasa Levickaite article is that the article is an orphan article. An orphan article means that it is an article with no links from other pages in the main article namespace. If you go to Special:WhatLinksHere/Rasa_Levickaite you'll find that no article links to Rasa Levickaite. You can fix it by going to related articles and linking to Rasa Levickaite where necessary. I did a search and the only thing which comes up is the article itself. So if you can think of another article that is related to Rasa Levickaite, please do link it so that the tag can be removed. Happy editing! --Ushau97 talk 09:39, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
To edit the file, go to File:Rasa Levickaite.JPG and press edit as you Edit other pages. And replace {{di-no source no license|date=25 March 2013}} with an appropriate tag listed at WP:ICTIC. For more information see WP:UPI. --Ushau97 talk 10:23, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
I don't know whether or not I'm allowed to comment here, but lt:File:Rasa Levickaite.JPG says that it's in the public domain. It is the same file as File:Rasa_Levickaite.JPG on the English Wikipedia. pr2 (t • c) 03:01, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

How to prevent page from being deleted

Hello,

I am new to Wiki submitting and would like to know what I would need to do/edit/change on my page for it to not be deleted. I submitted a page for a small comedy group in Canada who is touring Canadian conventions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_Start_Comedy) and I don't know or understand what it is the community needs changed. If there is anyone who can help out, that would be great.

Thank you--Pappat708 (talk) 03:54, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi and welcome to the Teahouse. Don't panic - see Save an article proposed for deletion and simply familiarize yourself with the deletion process, and address the issues raised. That said Notability is a concern here.
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL -- Moxy (talk) 04:30, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply,

I still don't understand what more is needed. while I would not call us famous, I would at least call us notable. We have completed works in 6 months that notable groups take 5 years to achieve. I have given all my references and am starting to believe I need to sign a media deal for us to be listed.

I don't blame the community, just those who rush into deletion without giving proper guideline and instruction to rectify a situation.

If anyone can think of a way for this page to be restored and edited to the liking of the community, please feel free to let me know

Thanks again--Pappat708 (talk) 04:55, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Hey Pappat708. Notability is not about worth, merit or value of the group. It is about the world having taken note of a topic by publishing about it in reliable sources. It all goes hand in glove with the idea that an encyclopedia is by definition a tertiary source, only containing content that is based on primary and secondary sources already published and in existence (and thus it never first publishes material about new things). So, the most interesting, novel, intelligent, creative, funny, meritorious, awesome new thing that has not been previously published in reliable sources has no place on Wikipedia because of what Wikipedia is. It's really as simple as this: If Force Start Comedy has not been the subject of being noted by the world by substantive publication about it in reliable sources (that are entirely independent of Force Start Comedy itself), and from which publications information for an article can be gleaned and verified by citations, Wikipedia should not have an article on it.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:49, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Double dip

This disambiguation page has a number of entries that do not link to WP articles. Should those entries be removed? Thanks, Illia Connell (talk) 17:37, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Other than the Wiktionary box, I see no links pointing away from en.wikipedia there. Could you please clarify what you mean for me? Thanks — User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended) 21:01, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Hello Illia Connel, welcome! I think you are talking about the entries that do not link directly to an article with "double dip" in their name. Doing this is common, and in accordance to Wikipedia policy. I hope that answered your question! nerdfighter 22:34, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
OK, thanks for your replies. Illia Connell (talk) 23:35, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
You're welcome ! Feel free to come back if you have any more questions. nerdfighter 01:51, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
For reference, Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Disambiguation pages is the standard guideline regarding disambiguation pages (including what to/not-to include). DMacks (talk) 05:26, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

How Can I...start an article on a BLP...

Hello Tea-inmates...This is The Wikimon again. I found that Wikipedia does not have an article on Robin Sharma and so have started one on him in my Sandbox, link goes something like this: User:The Wikimon/ Sandbox/ Robin Sharma... So how do I go forward because this pretty much all that I found on him... And there is the rule which says that each and every point about him needs to have a source and I can't find too many good sites on him... What do I do??? The Wikimon (talk) 14:14, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

And BTW this new "Add a Question Window" sends the request down to the bottom of the page.. Is it a problem or did I goof-up?? Thanks!!! The Wikimon (talk) 14:24, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi Wikimon and welcome to the Teahouse and thanks for dropping by! I also commend you for taking the initiative to create a new article. To answer your question, you could "publish" your article on WP by going to this page and pasting your text and then clicking save. BUT, I don't recommend that you do that until you have a stronger article, as per the notice at the top of this same page an article on Robin Sharma was already created and deleted. Since this is your first article, you would learn more by using the Article Wizard. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 14:38, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Now part two of your question is regarding sources. While not every sentence has to be sourced its a good general rule of thumb especially on BLP's, but use your good judgement as there is no hard fast rule on this. I would recommend you refer to WP:BLP as you continue to develop this or other Biographies of Living People (BLP). Also note that article subjects that are not "notable" per WP standards run the risk of quick deletion. So its to your advantage to include strong sourcing to establish reliability per WP:BIO.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 14:45, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Good places to look for sources are: Google News and Google Books. Here are some additional sources CNN, Forbes, IBD, Wash Post. They are mostly minor mentions but they may help you to fortify the article. Another thing in your favor is that Sharma has written several books published by a notable publishing house [3]. Let me know if you want more help developing or publishing the article. Cheers!-- — Keithbob • Talk • 14:58, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Many people do not realize that a search of Google News from the main page only searches a short period into the past, nor it is it at all intuitive how to get to the archives (it was much more user friendly until relatively recently). Anyway, this is the direct link, which has quite a bit of material you might find useful to expand the draft and cite. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:29, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Excellent point Fuhghettaboutit (is that NewYawkeze??) Google archives used to be very accessible but now they are burying it and there's talk of it being discontinued. Thanks for the direct link its a very helpful tool. Cheers! -- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:46, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks a lot!!! Once again, Teahouse lives up to its name! The Wikimon (talk) 17:16, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Shortage of sources and information

A month ago or so I was reading about one of my favorite football clubs and viewing the players in it and the articles about them. I noticed at least one did not have it, so I decided to make his. After seeing several other articles about the other players being as short as one or two sentences, I thought it would suffice with the exact same ammount of sentences and sources etc. for this one.

To my surprise, the submission was declined a few days ago, and the demand was that I should write more about the player's biography and give more sources. But the problem is that this particular player happens to be eccentric, not too famous, not well-known, though I was curious about who he was and I figured others might be too so that's why I made it in the first place. Nevertheless; I don't know if I'd be able to write more than a paragraph about him and I'm bugged over the fact that the other articles didn't need much to pass while they could surely fit in much more about those more famous players than this one who has yet to even play his first game for the club and is not that known.

So I wonder: 1.How much is the bare minimum of text beyond which nobody can reject the submission? 2.What should I do if I don't have enough info to work with in order to write that much?Azrail Kabir (talk) 03:46, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi there. You may want to read up on WP:BLP and WP:V, as well as WP:RS. Also, I don't know what the bare minimum text is on this one. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:49, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi and welcome to the Teahouse! In order to have an article on Wikipedia, one must be notable. One can achieve this through many ways, but the most common one is passing the general notability guideline which states that one should receive significant coverage from third-party sources. Does this player have any newspaper articles written about him? If so, cite them. You say that the player is unique...what makes him unique? As for the other part of your question, there is no minimum for the amount of text an article should have. Ideally, we want to provide as comprehensive coverage as possible, but one sentence articles are often written and accepted on Wikipedia. If you have specific questions on why your article was declined, I would ask the reviewer at his talk page. I have worked with him before and I am sure that he will give you some constructive feedback. I hope this helps. Respectfully yours, Go Phightins! 03:51, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Go Phightins! brings up an excellent point. To create an article, it must comply with the WP:GNG and reliable sources need to be backed up. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 04:03, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Alrighty, I'll read up on that and try my luck with the next submission later. Thanks guys. =)Azrail Kabir (talk) 04:07, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for visiting the Teahouse, Azrail Kabir. I noticed that you wrote that the player "has yet to even play his first game for the club and is not that known". That leads me to believe that this player may not yet be notable by Wikipedia standards. If not, we shouldn't have an article about the player yet. Please read WP:FOOTY, our notability guideline for association football. Don't worry - there are many other interesting articles to work on. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 01:01, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Don't however let that discourage you from creating the article as a {{Userspace draft}} in your userspace if there is sufficient reason to believe he will become notable enough before too long. — User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended) 01:11, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Can someone please help me revise my article so it doesn't get deleted again?

I decided to appeal on my discussion regarding the changes or deleting the information on Pilipinas Got Talent Season 4. The problem here is the lack of reliable sources and I based only on facts straight from the television. I hope that you consider my appeal. Thanks a lot! JonathanDiesta (talk) 03:12, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Friends, Am working on uploading supplemental material to a page begun by others about my great-aunt Leonora Armstrong. Have just uploaded three photos and am getting the notice to state their copyright status. Am not sure which code would be used for family photos between 40 to 114 years old. Any help with how to make sure that they are tagged correctly would be appreciated. Many thanks! KasuncionKasuncion (talk) 19:52, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

If they are your personal photos, I suggest tagging them as {{PD-self}} or maybe {{PD-Pre1978}}. — User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended)
Thanks very much for the suggestion Technical 13, do you know how to insert this type of tag on a photo file?

Thanks!Kasuncion (talk) 20:09, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Arg.... the copyright police have commented on every photo just uploaded! And am totally clueless as to how to insert the tags...where, especially. Do they go into the link of the photo file? Or after the photo in the main body of the text?

Thanks again...Kasuncion (talk) 20:22, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Kasuncion. Go to the image page, say, File:Leonora Holsapple with her mother and younger sister.jpg, click edit at the top, replace
{{Remove this line and insert a license instead|year=2013|month=04|day=01}}
with
{{self|cc-by-sa-3.0}}
There are other license you could choose but that's what I suggest.

One more thing: please make sure you are at the Commons itself and not trying to edit the local display of the image (you can't). This can be very confusing for people. The Wikimedia Commons where you uploaded the images is a separate (sister) Wikimedia website. For example, when you go to the above image, you will be seeing the local display of it but you can't edit the page. You will, however, see the text "This is a file from the Wikimedia Commons. Information from its description page there is shown below." Click on the linked words "description page there" to reach the actual Commons image page. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 21:38, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

I was thinking possibly that one as well, but thought it might be better for them to put it in PD... Fuhg's template choice selection is just as valid though. :) — User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended) 21:47, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
I wasn't actually thinking about which license Technical (I didn't mean to be contradictory). Since after your post it didn't appear Kasuncion knew what to do, I thought more step-by-step advice was in order as to exactly where and what to click to edit the page and what text to replace with the license. Yes, Kasuncion, you can release it into the public domain using the other licenses. I personally would want to retain the copyright to family photos though. To be very clear., if you choose public domain, you are releasing the copyright entirely. If you choose cc-by-sa-3.0 you are retaining copyright onwership, but releasing under a free license, which requires re-users of the photos to give you attribution when they use it (that is, if there is a copyright to retain; here I think there likely is since the photos were probably never published).--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:01, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
(edit conflict) PD-self isn't applicable unless Kasuncion took the images him/herself. If these are family snapshots and the author is a member of the family but who isn't known then {{PD-heirs}} is probably applicable. The exception would be for File:Leonora Holsapple with her mother and younger sister.jpg where {{PD-US-unpublished}} is appropriate. NtheP (talk) 22:14, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Why do nfl free agents have no current number on Wikipedia.

I've been looking around and I've noticed that free agents in the nfl have no current number because they do. MattFlynnForPresident (talk) 14:24, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi either distressed Packers fan or disgruntled Seahawks fan who wants Russell Wilson gone (us Eagles fans will gladly take him on any day of the week ) or Raiders fan who finally has a glimmer of hope . I believe that the reason there are no numbers for free agent players is that, unless someone is on a team, they cannot have a roster number. For example, let's say that the Eagles came to their senses and released DeSean Jackson (#10). Though he was number 10 with the Eagles, he might sign with, say the Giants, who already have a #10 in Eli Manning, so Jackson would have to pick a new number. That happens quite often, so players are not considered to have numbers during their free agency. Hope this helps, and good luck to whomever you root for in the NFL draft. Go Phightins! 18:04, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Ok thank you but why does Donovan mcnabbs page have his number (5). Ps I like the raiders, Seahawks and Vikings and you guys can take russel Wilson or Christian ponder anytime lolMattFlynnForPresident (talk) 18:11, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Because he's retired, I think. P.S. Da Bears! NFLisAwesome (ZappaOMati's alternate account) 18:23, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
No check nfl.com he is a free agent but he's thinking about retiring MattFlynnForPresident (talk) 18:28, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Well, if he's still considering, he's been considering for over 2 years now. I think we can safely assume he's a former player, who have their past #'s listed when it's pretty much certain that they're never going to play again. NFLisAwesome (ZappaOMati's alternate account) 18:32, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Problem with editor talk page

I have posted to editor Kevin Rutherford's (ktr101) talk page three times and noticed that my posts don't appear on his active page, but have all gone to an alternate talk page of his. On this alternate page, the last post before mine was two years previous. His current one has posts from this past weekend. I have used the link on his user profile that states: "Click here to start a new subject on my talk page" and have signed it with the four tildes. I am not sure what is happening. No wonder I haven't heard back from him. I also e-mailed him and am wondering if my correspondence experienced the same fate.

intimeagain Intimeagain (talk) 13:35, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi and welcome to the Teahouse! I was confused at first too. The page that he links to on his user page is his talk page on [simple.wikipedia.org the Simple Wikipedia]. What you want to post to is this page. Click "new section" at the top and you should be fine. Thanks. Go Phightins! 13:38, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, Go Phightins. It worked! Intimeagain (talk) 13:46, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Just need a quick hand

I need a little bit of help, don't mean to be annoying.

I really need to move Interprovincial 3-Day to Interprovincial Championship (cricket) and 2013 Interprovincial 3-Day to 2013 Interprovincial Championship. I would do it myself, but my account is new, so I still don't have the privileges required to do it. I'd be really grateful if you could just nip across to do it please.

Many thanks, NitramCricket96 (talk) 13:48, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi and welcome to the Teahouse. Your best bet is to gather consensus on the talk pages of the articles before moving it. In fact, all moves should be discussed before being performed (the exception is moving your own drafts to article space). King Jakob C2 13:51, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
It would take a long time to get a consensus seeing as it's a rather obscure topic. However, it says here [4] (under 'Interpros') that it is officially known as the Interprovincial Championship. NitramCricket96 (talk) 14:30, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi, NitramCricket96. Looking at the edit history for Interprovincial 3-Day, only two other editors contributed to the article, one an IP. I suggest that you contact the other registered editor on his talk page to suggest the move. Since a redirect from the old name will be left so there will be no confusion, it is likely that the original author will agree. Contacting the other user involved will probably be quicker than just posting to the article talk page. If he doesn't reply within two days, then you will be autoconfirmed and can move the article yourself. Take care, DocTree (?l??·cont) Join WER 17:14, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Your best option would be to talk to the folks at WP:WikiProject Cricket, they are the subject specialists. Roger (talk) 06:54, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

AfC helper script

Using Google Chrome, I have enabled the script in my preferences and even bypassed my cache. However, when I want to review articles, I need to do so manually. Why? Arctic Kangaroo 02:50, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello there and welcome to the teahouse. Did you go through Wikipedia:WIZARD? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:53, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Haha. In case you didn't know, I'm just an editor who has been here for a few months seeking some help at this Teahouse. Because, I want to help out in reviewing articles at AfC. But, I have to do it manually, which is a little troublesome. Arctic Kangaroo 03:15, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Hello again. I can understand what is troubling you. Did you ask about this at WT:AFC? Or is there a problem with your browser? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:40, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Haven't yet. I will go and ask there now. Arctic Kangaroo 04:07, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
      • (edit conflict) I want to tell something because I also faced same problem. Now for your helping
  • There's a line Yet Another AFC Helper Script: easily review Articles for creation submissions and redirect requests

at the editing section preference gadget. You have to enable that. Then clear your cache. But you must remind that the gadget will work only for those articles which have started with Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/. Also one thing that I disagree with Tito. The review will not only come by the way as the picture said. You can also get the review link under the Move at the top of the page. Hope this helps. And let me know if this helps you.--Pratyya (Hello!) 15:16, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Confused about what I can do about an article which has been removed.

I had an article removed some time ago by an editor called User:Fastily (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs). I am an actress (Caroline Strong (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)) and an entry in my name had numerous inaccuracies. I am hopeless with technology and did not know the rules of Wikipedia and I think when I attempted to correct and update the page and added a production I had just finished filming, it was judged as unambiguous advertising. This was not my intention. I contacted Fastily but got no reply and I gave up, this was in 2011. Recently it was drawn to my attention that my name comes up in numerous entries but always in red and when the name is clicked the judgment for deletion is still given. I am quite distressed that this casts me in a poor light through no fault of my own, other than unfamiliarity with procedure. If people are interested in my work they can access information via IMDb, my Home page, my Agent's web site, Spotlight and even Corriepedia, so I don't need to have this entry in the first place. How can I have this link removed so that I do not carry the stigma of this judgment? Please advise. Many thanks in anticipation. Caroline Strong.77.98.160.136 (talk) 14:13, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

I'll research this issue for you. I'll respond in more detail shortly. — User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended) 14:31, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Okay, I'm looking at what links there, and I see 14 pages (This discussion, nine user pages[one of them was someone asking why content was removed from the article and eight of them were notifications of edits that were removed as unproductive (two of which were by Cluebot), two of them seem to be punch-lists of editors that are trying to populate or at very least keep track of who's who in those productions.], and four actual articles [List of The Bill cast members, Change at Oglethorpe, List of past Coronation Street characters, List of Emmerdale characters (2007)]). As far as the content of the links, they are simply contained in list of characters (of which many are red links). I'll poke around and see if I can get your deleted article moved to my userspace as a {{Userspace draft}} and neutralize the wording so that it meets the standards of Wikipedia (Writ, you're an admin, right? Can you move the deleted content to User:Technical_13/Drafts/Caroline Strong for me, please? As far as trying to contact Fastily, that user has marked themselves as {{Retired}} and I don't foresee contacting them possible. — User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended) 14:52, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Done; since that doesn't remove the G11 deletion message from the page, I've also removed the wikilinks from the four main articles. Writ Keeper (t + c) 15:06, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Hey, Caroline, welcome to the Teahouse! You can find a list of all the "caroline Strong" links here. At this point, the easiest thing to do is probably to just remove the links; I'll go ahead and do that for you, since it shouldn't really be that big a deal. Unfortunately, the deletion logs are in practice immutable, so there's nothing we can really do about the message itself. I hope this is enough; if you have any other requests, please ask. Writ Keeper (t + c) 14:46, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for trying to help me. I don't quite understand what you have done, but it is just good to know that someone is trying to rectify the situation on my behalf. I know that maybe it can't be sorted fully, but at least I don't feel so helpless. It is not a good feeling to have your actions mis judged in that way. But I have learned two lessons, that I should stay away from technology and not mind so much if people write inaccurate things about me. Next time I will just let it be, even if someone says I have fifteen kids and did the voice for Homer Simpson. Thanks again. I appreciate the effort. Caroline.X 77.98.160.136 (talk) 16:08, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
That's fine, I don't mind at all... Take a look at User:Technical_13/Drafts/Caroline_Strong and then check out my list of questions for you at User_talk:Technical_13/Drafts/Caroline_Strong. I'm mostly asking for sources of accurate information so that I can build an un-biased accurate article for you. The problem with the way the page use to read (already took a chunk out of about 30% of the poor formatting) was the use of ALL CAPS, lack of internally linked sources, and external references[1] to name a few of the problems with the old article. — User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended) 16:29, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Hello again. I did try to filling in your questions but I can't get it to take my answers. I was able to get on the page itself and have put in that I am Caroline Strong (III) on IMDb, taken out as many mistakes as I could see, although I don't know how it should be formatted and it is obviously badly done anyway. To be honest I don't really want the article at all, I just wanted to have the ambiguous advertising bit removed. I think that would be easier as I am struggling a bit on my sons computer, just to get replies back to you and as for sending a photo I wouldn't know where to start! So sorry. Cx 77.98.160.136 (talk) 16:57, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
The only way that I know of to make the previous deletion (and reason for) hidden from a page is to post a new, acceptable article. You may put your answers right on the page if you want... I'll move the questions over. That isn't a problem being it is a {{Userspace draft}}. If the previous deletion is allowed to be hidden on Wikipedia (which I doubt severely), please correct me Writ. — User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended) 17:19, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi again, User technical 13. I am being a bit pathetic, when you are trying so hard to help. I will give you as many of the answers as I can this way, because I am still unable to fill in your list. I am Caroline Strong (III) on IMDb, I have only been nominated for a Radio Times, Radio Comedy Award. I am represented by David Daly Associates, the link you have to my own Home Page is correct and to my page on Corriepedia. I don't know what the link would be to Spotlight but there is a direct link to my spotlight page from my agents web site anyway. As for a photo, the b/w on IMDb is by Michael Pollard the colour one on Corriepedia is from ITV publicity and they are happy for me to use it. I hope all this helps and I am sorry I am such a ludite. My lack of technical know how is legend! I appreciate you are trying to re-instate the article and I imagine this is the only way to overcome my problem, so I am sorry if I was becoming a bit defeatist. Thankyou again for all your efforts.Cx 77.98.160.136 (talk) 17:24, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
User Technical 13, I will have to sign off for a bit and let my son have his computer back. Thankyou again for all you are trying to do and I will come back to the tea house as soon as he is finished.Cx77.98.160.136 (talk) 18:06, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Which Notre_Dame_High_School#United_Kingdom did you attend so i can link to the correct one?? — User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended) 18:08, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
I went to Notre Dame Prep School and High School Woolton, Liverpool.The High School later became St Julie's.77.98.160.136 (talk) 20:17, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
As you were born in Liverpool, that is probably to be expected ;) However, I hope Technical 13 realises the article will need to be sourced to something that is more reliable than a chat on a Wikipedia Talk page. Articles (particularly about living people ...like yourself) must be sourced to reliable published material. If you want to avoid the article being deleted again, it would be better to tell Technical 13 where reliable published news articles (etc.) about your career can be found. Sionk (talk) 01:50, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
I'm aware of that Sionk, see User_talk:Technical_13/Drafts/Caroline_Strong for this list of sources I will be using to verify and re-work the article... Once I get the old atrocious formatting cleaned up and find the correct links to all of the on-wiki resources. — User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended) 11:34, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
That's what I was afraid of. Neither Caroline's website, her agent's website, or Corriepedia are independent, reliable sources. And IMDb only has limited uses for verification purposes. It is one of the basics of Wikipedia that 'notability' needs to be established first. There needs to be convincing proof, at least, that she has "had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions." Sionk (talk) 12:51, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
Them of themselves are not up to standards of "reliability", but they offer enough other links that are. Just like Wikipedia is not a "reliable" source for a research paper to "most" college professors, but the links to the sources are. . No worries... The page will be reliable before it is requested to be reviewed and moved into article. — User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended) 13:00, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
I have just returned to the teahouse and would like to re-iterate that I have no interest in having an article on Wikipedia in the first place. Sionk, I hope that is correct, is probably correct in suggesting that I am not notable enough to have an article. What I wanted. was to have tha remarks about the original removal of the article (unambiguous advertising) deleated, as this was not the case, as I have explained. I have very little control over what is written by contributors and absolutely no technical skills myself. I wish I had, as contributors also have the luxury of anonymity. It has taken me two years to pluck up the courage to rectify this situation and now I wish I hadn't. To Technical 13 I would like to thank you again for attempting to resolve this situation (I think you have appreciated how distressing it has been for me) but I get the sense that you are fighting a losing battle. Leave it as it is, I can live with it. Cxx 77.98.160.136 (talk) 16:43, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
thank-you for raising this issue, and for bearing with us. unfortunately it's hard for us to change a deletion "rationale". after some PR scandals here, there is a short fuse here, about things that appear promotional. it would have been far better for the admin to go through our deletion process with a notability discussion, WP:CREATIVE. i'm sorry about the toxic culture, i'm sure no one means to imply you were the promotional one. (merely a rush to grasp at a speedy deletion rationale). if we could find some newspaper reviews, then you might well be notable enough. slowkingFarmbrough's revenge? †@1? 23:41, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Help! The article is now out there for all to see, full of mistakes. It hasn't been removed as I requested in my last post to the Teahouse(to which I had no reply). So I tried to correct stuff myself out of desperation and got ominous messages from (Sionk) that I shouldn't. If your saying (Sionk)that correcting it myself will get the article off the internet again then surely that is a result, for me anyway? You have already expressed the belief that I shouldn't have an article in the first place and we are total agreement there. So why is the article still out there? I am very confused.77.98.160.136 (talk) 23:56, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
Thankyou(slowking4)for your reply. I wouldn't go as far as toxic, but I certainly feel that apart from the kind soul, Technical 13, who I think was genuinely trying to help me, there did seem to be a rather hostile attitude coming my way. You can go on happily with your career for years (27 in my case) not courting this kind of thing, then a particular role engenders all sorts of nonsense, this wiki thing included. Hopefully the whole thing will get removed shortly and I can get back to normality.77.98.160.136 (talk) 00:15, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
I'd no intention of being hostile or toxic. I was simply trying to explain why it was not a good idea to edit your own autobiography here. From what I know of the way Wikipedia works, once an article is deleted a message will display somewhere recording that fact. Possibly the best solution will be for someone like Technical 13 to try and create a very basic article (in which instance the "this article was deleted" message will no longer be visible). However, a long article with extensive lists of acting (and director etc.) credits begins to look promotional again (which is what we all want to avoid). Believe me, I've seen plenty of articles on actors who are a lot less experienced (or recognisable) that you. There's hope yet ;) Nobody is coming up with a better solution, unfortunately. Sionk (talk) 00:38, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I personally don't mind the edits you have been making. Mostly you've been removing no longer valid information which means there will be less for me to have to find references for later. Generally Sionk's position is correct, but it is still a userspace draft and I've marked it as {{COI}} to cover my arse just in case. That will also remind me to make sure everything is good before asking others not involved with this discussion or the mock up if it is up to code to move it to article space. I realize it is slow and frustrating, but please be virtuous with me and show me some patience, and I promise it will be made into "something" valid as a page to hide the deletion. — User:Technical 13   ( C • M • View signature as intended) 01:37, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
As I have said, probably half a dozen times now in these exchanges, the best solution is to remove it and I will live with the 'unambiguous advertising'slur if neccessary. I am not really concerned about whether I have more or less credentials than the next person, because I didn't ask for any of this in the first place and I have never had an inflated opinion of my own importance. If you read all my other comments you will see that I have ignored this situation for two years and only asked advice a couple of days ago, because a concerned friend had noticed what happened if you clicked on my name and thought I should do something about it. I am now going to try and get some independant advice about all this, because it is just getting really silly. Getting it removed again shouldn't be that hard, surely? It certainly wasn't the first time.77.98.160.136 (talk) 01:28, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
Dear technical 13. Sorry if I seem impatient, it's not that at all and I really do appreciate what you have been trying to do for me, however, contrary to popular belief, some performers find this sort of thing rather icky. I feel embarassed by it, and helpless at the same time.77.98.160.136 (talk) 02:47, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
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