Miscellaneous desk
< March 2	<< Feb \| March \| Apr >>	March 4 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

March 3

How can I save Ice Ditto?

My wife drew a :3 on an ice cube and keeps him in the freezer. We call him Ice Ditto. Recently we've noticed that he's melting despite spending 100% of his time trapped in the coldest part of the house. Why is he still melting, and is there a way we can save him? --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 01:50, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As the comments there say, the ice cube is sublimating. Dismas|^(talk) 02:18, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The exact article you want is Sublimation (phase transition). This article implies that the ice cube might sublimate more slowly if you enclosed it in a container inside the freezer so that it isn't exposed to air currents circulating inside the freezer. But it will still slowly sublimate. Marco polo (talk) 02:21, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Besides submlimation, as mentioned at the site in your link, it might also be a "frost-free" refrigerator, which then doesn't always stay below freezing (during the defrost cycle). This is especially true of the walls, floor, and ceiling of the freezer compartment, which are the targets of the defrosting effort. StuRat (talk) 03:11, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks guys! I posted this question on both sites at the same time, and between the two of you we've gotten some good ideas. We'll try the closed container (probably a baggie) and maybe look into 'reincarnation' (replacing in new water of an ice tray) to keep Ice Ditto alive. Turns out even a pet ice cube requires some maintenance ;) --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 06:05, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There's the question of what she used to make the :3 with. One possible solution might be crunching up some ice chips and putting them in cold water left in the freezer set at the lowest temp possible so that you have a bath at 0C or well below. For example, if the ice-chips have salt in them, they may be even colder than a chip on the verge of melting at 0C. Then, submerge ice ditto just below the waterline, and allow the solution to refreeze. Now there is a protective body of new ice around Ice Ditto, assuming he wasn't killed or defaced in the process. (You can always experiment ahead of time.) Then put him in a baggy.

The second problem will be he's on life support, so unless you keep him burried in permafrost or in a basement with a back-up generator you will still hve to face loosing him some day.

And, there's the alternative of ordering a small, chocolate covered ice cream cake yearly with a :3 on him, and eating him ceremoniously and with dignity and some red wine, tenderloin, and cashew salad a year later, once the new cake has arrived.

There's also the possibility of bearing a son named Ice (depending on how that goes with your last name) or getting a dog named Ditto (no sarcasm intended).μηδείς (talk) 19:41, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Historical Tourism...

Apparently Wikivoyage considers time travel in scope (even if technology hasn't yet been developed) voy:Wikivoyage:Joke_articles/Time_travel

However, in drafting this article I was wanting to include some actual historical curiosities, alongside the science fiction tropes.

So as well as being open to reasoned (and sourced suggestions) I had some additional queries relating to specific ideas.

Did prisons of the 18th century allow paid visitors to view the inmates as a sideline?
What guidebooks existed in the Pre-Rough Guide era? (This can include literary works that wouldn't be consider travel guides as such)
What was the official procedure for visiting pre-reunifcation Berlin (and other Iorn Curtain states)
Which historical periods are/were considered to be the most dangerous?
Are there any centuries old scams that are still used on modern travelers?

The assistance of the wider Wikipedia community in adding educational value to a tongue in cheek article would be appreciated :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:21, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The classic British/European guide books from the Victorian era were Bradshaw's Guide--Phil Holmes (talk) 12:51, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And Baedeker --Phil Holmes (talk) 13:35, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Any idea when Michelen went into the publishing business? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:47, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

1900, according to Michelin Guide. Adam Bishop (talk) 15:51, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

See Bethlem Royal Hospital#Public visiting for the most notorious answer to your first question. It was literally the closest thing we've ever had to bedlam. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:41, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No source, but I imagine the old "give a tourist looking for x directions to robbers instead" trick is...old. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:46, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Come. I show you cheap shop. Owner my cousin. Make good price. 196.213.35.146 (talk) 14:20, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. "Helping" carry luggage probably goes back to the beginning, too. And "blind" beggars at ports. InedibleHulk (talk) 15:48, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

There are dozens of ancient and medieval "itineraria" that are basically travel guides for pilgrims. The Holy Land in antiquity and the Middle Ages certainly had a tourist industry. Lots of holy sites were probably completely made up just to attract pilgrims...such as the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, which conveniently contains several of them. Adam Bishop (talk) 14:51, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

From our article, True Cross:

By the end of the Middle Ages so many churches claimed to possess a piece of the True Cross, that John Calvin is famously said to have remarked that there was enough wood in them to fill a ship:

"There is no abbey so poor as not to have a specimen. In some places there are large fragments, as at the Holy Chapel in Paris, at Poitiers, and at Rome, where a good-sized crucifix is said to have been made of it. In brief, if all the pieces that could be found were collected together, they would make a big ship-load. Yet the Gospel testifies that a single man was able to carry it."

— Calvin, Traité Des Reliques.

Hope that helps. --Dweller (talk) 15:55, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is all great stuff people :), 'Plunge forward' :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:16, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Rome's seen it all, and I can see most of those working since that time a wolf-boy honestly, no kidding built the place. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:45, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A fond memory: the time a souvenir-hawker at the Piazza di Spagna called out to me, a blond teenager: "Bist du deutsch oder änglisch?" I'll forever regret not calling back, "Nein!" —Tamfang (talk) 09:22, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Shanghaiing seems relevant. Most dangerous time/place might be anywhere in the way of Gengis Khan (who caused the death of ~ 40 million, and also was a force of climate change [1]), or perhaps Fall_of_the_Western_Roman_Empire. You'd have to clarify what you mean by "danger" though. I mean you might be more likely to get robbed or murdered in a city, but you're more likely to starve or fall to your death in the wilderness. SemanticMantis (talk) 18:19, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

People used to prefer being murdered and robbed on the road. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:40, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I meant the sort of thing you'd get FCO/State Department advice about to be fair, so in essence WarZone, pollitical instability, raging epidemics and so on. ( I've note Cambodia in the Stay Safe portion of the article.)ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:24, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Wolves in Great Britain used to be a hassle. Scotland's government was cool enough to set up spittals. A few centuries later, some people think they'd be good for tourism. Go figure. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:29, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It could be said that the immediate cause of the crusades was the arrival of the Seljuk Turks in the Holy Land, and their disruption of established pilgrimage routes. At least one of the versions of Pope Urban II's speech at the Council of Clermont talks about Christians (pilgrims or otherwise) being killed in various nasty ways by the Turks. In that sense the crusades were a "police action" intended to make it safe for Christian pilgrims again. Later, some of the various military orders were founded specifically to protect pilgrims (not just in crusader territories, but in Europe as well). Adam Bishop (talk) 21:53, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

ISIS

From what I understand about ISIS, they take fundamentalist and radical Islam to the extreme. As I see it, their ultimate goal is not only to conquer the entire world for Islam, but also for all the people in the world to devote their entire lives to do nothing else than worship Allah and Muhammed. ISIS forbids all kinds of recreation, fun and joy from its subjects. No one may do anything else than worship Allah and Muhammed. Were ISIS to ever reach Europe, the first thing they'd do would be to start destroying all possible signs of European culture, such as restaurants, cafés, bars, theatres, cinemas, libraries and public artworks. Is my understanding correct? JIP | Talk 22:06, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No, it is very much oversimplified, not to say caricatured. And your hypothetical question also assumes that a conquering culture remains unchanged in the process - that did not work for the original Arab expansion, and it did not even work for the Mongols. It also is very much implausible - the difference in resources is so extreme that the idea that ISIS could conquer Europe is borderline absurd. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 22:17, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That one guy seems to take plenty of joy in doing beheadings. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:07, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Jihadi John is not coming back here, mate, until his statute of limitations is up, or he has had enough of his rather limited number of heavenly virgins (with respect to the amount of time eternity lasts for). KägeTorä - (^影_虎) (Chin Wag) 23:27, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

People are fucked, not peoples. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:22, 3 March 2015 (UTC) [reply]

But the system shares responsibility. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 23:38, 3 March 2015 (UTC) >[reply]

I don't get it. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:02, 4 March 2015 (UTC) [reply]

It's not just lone madmen that are fucked up. The system and it's prime actors bear responsibility for creating situations in which people snap, and indeed for encouraging inhuman acts by dehumanising parts of humanity. Der Fisch beginnt am Kopf zu stinken. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 00:11, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Got it. There are a few "the systems" out there, gets a bit confusing sometimes. InedibleHulk (talk) 00:15, 4 March 2015 (UTC) [reply]

Note that none of this is new with ISIS. The Taliban also wanted to ban all fun activities, famously even music and flying kites. They also had the same desire to destroy ancient artifacts, and brutally murdered anyone who disagreed with them.

If you look at what happened to the Taliban, that's probably what will become of ISIS. At some point they won't be able to hold territory, since they are very busy pissing off each and every one of their neighbors (the Taliban was at least smart enough to keep the Pakistan intelligence agency as an ally). With the kind of firepower they have managed to attract against them, it's just a matter of time. However, they will probably then become just like Al-Qaeda, the Taliban, etc., and do suicide bombings, etc. That's impossible to stop, unlike an enemy trying to hold territory. StuRat (talk) 23:43, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The US bans these foods. That's no fun, either. Also doesn't allow many drugs. Or other things. Here's an official list. Does that mean people don't do it, anyway? Of course not. If an Islamist group (they couldn't still call it ISIS) takes over the world, they can't be everywhere any better than the current superpower can. Some people would still be horribly persecuted, and some people would still be fine. It only seems universally terrible when you focus on certain things. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:59, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@JIP.

"... do do nothing else than worship Allah and Muhammed. ISIS forbids..."

Muslims do not "worship Muhammed". Muhammad (pbuh) was a human, and in Islam the last of prophets, like Ibrahim, Musa, Sulaiman, and Isa (that radical C1 ACE rabbi whose message "don't follow rules because they are rules, do what is right" I try to follow in every act of my life) before him.

--Shirt58 (talk) 10:27, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

One reason it appears to western eyes that Muslims "worship" Muhammad is the frequently violent and deadly reaction to depictions of Muhammad. We are used to seeing depictions of Biblical figures, including Jesus, and including in satirical ways. When the depiction of a human being is labeled "blasphemy", the obvious conclusion to us westerners is that Muhammad is considered to be equivalent to God. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:04, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Also, it wasn't that long ago that Islam was often called "Mohammedanism" in the west. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:14, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Saying that ISIS takes Islam to an extreme assumes that their policies are based on Islam. In fact, probably most Muslims would say that ISIS violates and perverts Islam. Muslim leaders around the world have condemned ISIS. Marco polo (talk) 16:11, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Which is why it's important that the Islamic world take the lead in defeating ISIS. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:14, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The lead has been taken. Several Islamic states are "with us". Any that try to take over will likely be "against us". InedibleHulk (talk) 18:57, 4 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]