Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 September 14

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September 14

selling gold and silver

I was watching Pawn Stars the other day (episode # 121) and they bought some silver ingots for the spot price. I contacted a local buyer of gold and they were paying less than 60% of the spot price.

1. How can the Pawn Stars make money after paying the spot price for the silver?

2. Why do local places pay so much less than the spot price? Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 01:38, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

1. I don't know how they could pay spot price. The Old Man, Corey and Chumlee were in Vancouver this past Saturday buying stuff. The Old Man bought an ounce of gold for what he said was $7 less than the going price. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:34, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, they are emphatic that they have to make money. They usually pay less than half of what something is estimated to be worth. Perhaps they hold onto gold and silver and wait for the price to go up. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 02:46, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

They actually sell their silver and gold for well more then spot price from what I understand. Googlemeister (talk) 13:27, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Who would buy it for more than it is worth? Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 15:10, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

People who are too lazy to research what it is worth, people who are too lazy to find the object at the correct price, people who find the novelty of buying something at the store they saw on tv worth the extra price. I mean this place is located in Vegas, and most people who visit the store are going to be tourists who probably aren't there because they are super concerned with getting things at the ideal price. Googlemeister (talk) 18:26, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Goldline International seems to mark up the price too. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 20:40, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

It should be noted that gold and silver are not quite like the more exotic things they buy, which might sit on the shelf for months and years and have no set price. They can always sell precious metals immediately, and who knows, maybe those commemoratives actually had some extra value to them. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:36, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

The old man said that they were going to send them to be melted. Of course, I don't believe everything I see on TV. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 02:47, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Of course, the shop in "Pawn Stars" is making money just by having the TV crews in. I'm sure that's how they can afford to routinely bring in so many experts. (Even if we're meant to believe that they're all personal friends of the shopkeeper.) Undoubtedly, they do things differently when they're not filming. APL (talk) 02:31, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

I suspect that with some of the experts, they might turn around and sell it to the expert at somewhere between the price they paid for it and what the expert says it is worth. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 02:49, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

This Little Piggy

It's funny.

I have a question about this article. It mentions the origins, but doesn't really explain the words. Why is the piggy going to the market? Eating roast beef (what?)?! Why did the second to last Piggy get no food? And from where is he going "home"? I realize this is a silly children's rhyme, but it seems there should be some reason to it. Quinn ^{░ RAIN} 02:51, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't think there's any significance to it, that's just a list of things that people do. The anthropomorphization of saying that "piggies" do the same things is amusing to children. For comparison, there's no particular significance to the animals listed on Old MacDonald's Farm, those are just typical farm animals. StuRat (talk) 03:01, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I mean, I gotcha point on that, so don't get me wrong...but I think it's the "roast beef" thing that really gets me. I'm pretty sure it's universal that the third piggy ate "roast beef," but, I mean, where did that come from? And that throws everything else into question as well. Quinn ^{░ RAIN} 03:07, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I guess I should clarify that I'm perfectly fine with the answer that it's just a non-nonsensical nursery rhyme intended to make kids laugh at the "tickle-your-foot-at-the-end" part. But it seems so universal that I'm curious if a linguist, or some-such-expert, has commented on this poem, beyond what the article cites. Quinn ^{░ RAIN} 03:11, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I think it's funny precisely because pigs don't eat roast beef. "This little piggie dug up a truffle and ate it" isn't funny. StuRat (talk) 04:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Plus, "this little piggy ate roast beef" fits the meter of the poem well. Meter and rhyme often drive what a poem or song says moreso than sense. --Jayron32 04:24, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

The heck pigs don't eat roast beef. They're omnivores. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 06:04, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeah. It's not toast beef, but...see this. Oda Mari (talk) 08:55, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

They aren't likely to kill a cow and roast it on their own. I suppose they would eat roast beef if it was served to them, but that would be a rather silly thing to do, as giving food to livestock which is more valuable than the livestock makes no economic sense. StuRat (talk) 18:10, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Old vaudeville joke:

Farmer 1: We used to buy hogs, raise them and sell them.

Farmer 2: How much did you buy them for?

Farmer 1: 10 dollars each

Farmer 2: How much did you sell them for?

Farmer 1: 10 dollars each

Farmer 2: Why, you can't make any money that way!

Farmer 1: Yeh, we found that out.

←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:16, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

To raise hogs generally means to breed hogs. Sow it can be profitable. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 16:31, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

I've had a good Google around, and whaddya know? It seems to just be a nonsense rhyme made up to play with your kiddies to. Sometimes there are hidden meanings: sometimes there just aren't. Life's like that! --TammyMoet (talk) 08:14, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

"Lifes like that", aah, I remember the Readers Digest. Richard Avery (talk) 14:16, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Looking through Google Books, I see there was an older nursery rhyme that included the line, "This little piggy it lay down and dy'd / And Betty Pringle sat down and cry'd." Maybe some mother just thought that was too macabre for a toddler. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 22:24, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

How long it take for a highway to fully renumber

How long it takes for a freeway to change numbers completely by 100%? 1-2 years or 3 years or more. Is this possible to take at least 6 years to completely replace numbers. CA 117 convert to I-905 in 1985 but some site said 1992. Does it immediately replace new numbers by at once or it does little by little until few years go by it makes alot of difference. When they renumber freeways do they just renumber most at once, or slowly replacing years after years.--69.229.6.251 (talk) 02:52, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Well, of course you could renumber it completely overnight, with enough money and manpower. However, this would cause much confusion as well as strain the budget. A more reasonable approach is to gradually put dual numbering in place and leave it there for several years, until people get used to the new system, then gradually remove the old signs. That might account for those two dates. One may be the start of the process and the other might be the completion date. StuRat (talk) 02:56, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) It depends entirely on the jurisdiction. Some places will change signs almost as soon as a road is redesignated, others may not make the change until after the signs would have been replaced anyways. It can be very confusing, especially for non-locals. In many places, the old number hangs on in the consciousness of the locals even if it all-but removed from the signs: I know of no Massachusetts native who calls any part of Massachusetts Route 128 "I-95" ever, even though the state has been trying for decades to remove the old 128 numbers from signs and/or encourage people to use the I-95 designation. But I would imagine that CALTRANS, in this era of near state bankruptcy has better things to do with its money than change signs; so it may drag its feet when roads are redesignated. --Jayron32 02:59, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Legally speaking, the highway number is whatever the government says it is, and the renumbering happens instantaneously, whenever the appropriate legislation or regulations come into effect. Due to budget or manpower limitations, and depending on the number of signs involved, the replacement of signage can take anywhere from days to years. (And occasionally an old sign will just get missed.) Many jurisdictions will leave signage that indicates that the route number has changed and which informs drivers of both the old and new designations. (Here's one such example.) This both draws attention to the fact that the change has occurred, and means that drivers using out-of-date maps don't become hopelessly lost. Eventually all references to the old numbering scheme will disappear, but this process seldom has a high priority. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 03:12, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Side note: Map software such as Google Maps may be updated in advance of any physical signage changes. I was the victim of that last year while driving to a wedding over in New York. The Google Maps info that we had indicated the new number while all the signage had the old numbering. It wasn't until we drove past our exit, then into Pennsylvania and started heading back in to New York that we saw a sign informing drivers of the change. Dismas|^(talk) 03:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Let me guess: You were on the Southern Tier Expressway, somewhere west of Binghamton? That area is another one where the road designation may have changed to I-86 some years ago, but I still think the locals think of it as NY-17. --Jayron32 03:24, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Sounds about right. The wedding was held at Traditions resort which is just west of Binghamton in Johnson City. The wife pulled out our New York atlas just a little too late and we were already past the last exit by the time we had nailed down what was going on. Turns out the wedding was an hour later than I thought it was and our unscheduled detour didn't make us late at all. Dismas|^(talk) 03:38, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Dagen H mentions some logistics in changing between right- and left-hand traffic in Sweden in one day. With similar resources, a complete renumbering of a single road should certainly be possible in one day. But consistent road number signs are less critical so huge resources are unlikely to be allocated. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:37, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

The deal with route numbers is that, especially for the Interstate System in the U.S., they really exist for long-distance travel. Locals adapt to changes pretty quickly, as route numbering changes tend to have a long lead-time in the local press, and everyone locally is ready for it. As someone who has done a fair-share of traveling via interstate, and as a bit of a roadgeek, one thing I have noticed is that people who are traveling long distance a) can't read maps and b) don't want to get off of the route number they are on even if there exists a shorter, faster, or easier route. Cities will often build express or bypass routes through or around their downtown areas to make it easier for long-distance travelers to avoid downtown traffic. The mistake they often make, however, is to keep the mainline interstate route going through downtown. This is WP:OR, but I have taken note, over the years, that most out-of-state travelers ignore these bypass routes, as can be told by watching license plates on said roads. Both Interstate 895 in Baltimore and Interstate 295 around Richmond are designed to shunt out-of-state through traffic around downtown districts, and people still insist on following the older, narrower, slower, and more congested Interstate 95 through these cities because they have no idea the side route is better, even though, in Richmond's example, they BEG you to get off of I-95: [1] with handy diagramatic signs. People still stay on I-95 even though it is a mess through downtown Richmond. So route numbering is not just arbitrary; if Virginia just flipped the designation between 295 and 95 tomorrow, they would likely see a dramtic shift in the amount of traffic heading through downtown; largely because the tourist traffic headed to Florida would now avoid it, sticking with 95. When signs don't match maps, or when signage is inconsistent, it can lead to lots of problems, as Dismas noted above. --Jayron32 04:00, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

That sign doesn't beg you to take the bypass. In fact, it makes it look like it will go 3 times as far and thus take 3 times as long. They need to add a cartoon of a car stuck in traffic with the driver shaking his fist out the window on the main route, and one speeding by (with suitable puffs of clouds behind him) on the bypass. :-) Or, to be more serious, they could give the estimated times for each route, with a digital display. StuRat (talk) 04:14, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeh, that one isn't great, I guess. The other warning signs for the road all say either "Washington DC" (northbound) or "Rocky Mount NC" (southbound) for I-295, while the I-95 signs only mention local traffic. They really do try to get through traffic off that road. Before about 10 years ago, they used to advertise "Miami Florida" for I-295 Southbound, which is a nice way to tell people "We swear this road is better to go south than I-95 is," but is kinda silly considering that Miami is something like 900+ miles past the end of I-295. See [2]. Sadly, that sign has now been changed and Miami has been taken off. --Jayron32 04:20, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

They ought to switch the road numbers: Have the bypass designated I-95 and the through-downtown route designated I-295. If Jayron's theory holds, much more traffic would then take the bypass. That said, I have deliberately avoided I-295 bypassing Providence, RI and I-495 bypassing Boston, MA because I prefer to see the cities over endless suburbia. I even deliberately took I-93 through downtown Boston before the Big Dig (yes, it was a while ago) because it was more interesting. Astronaut (talk) 12:51, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

It may be true that I-295 is the best way around Richmond, but I have found, through experience, that the suburban bypass is not always the fastest route. For example, when traveling through the Washington, DC, area toward Richmond, it is usually faster to go through the city on the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, D.C. Route 295, and Interstate 295 (District of Columbia) because of heavy congestion, especially around rush hour, on the Beltway. Astronaut mentions taking I-95 through Providence rather than I-295. In fact, based on a lot of experience driving through Rhode Island, I can confirm that that is the fastest route outside of the peak of rush hour because the bypass is so much longer that it is faster to travel through Pawtucket and Providence, even at the reduced speed on that stretch of the highway. (At peak rush hour, on the other hand, I-295 is usually faster.) On the other hand, you have to be crazy to stick to I-95 through New York City at almost any hour. Marco polo (talk) 14:03, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Actually, Marco, I use your DC route frequently myself, because it is less traffic. The reason it has less traffic is that it gets you off of the main route number, which carries the most traffic for the reasons I noted above. If one must take the beltway, taking the western segment (I-495 alone) is also usually better. I-895 also doesn't bypass Baltimore, but it is designed as an express route, with limited exits and entrances. As far as New York, the best route around the city actually doesn't use numbered roads at all. My preferred route is to take the GW bridge, get off on the Henry Hudson Parkway north, until it becomes the Saw Mill Parkway, get off on the Cross County Parkway, and take that to the Hutchinson River Parkway north to Connecticut and the Merritt Parkway. But New York lacks as proper bypass route (Interstate 287 technically works, but takes such a wide route that what you miss in traffic you tend to get back in raw mileage). --Jayron32 14:15, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Dude, I use that same route to get through New York. The main exception is that I don't like the Merritt Parkway much. The speed limit is too slow, and it is nearly as likely to be backed up as I-95 in Connecticut. Depending on the time of day, time of year, and my actual destination in New England, I usually cut over to I-95 on I-287 or take the Hutchinson to I-684, which connects to I-84 eastbound. Another trick is to listen to the regular traffic reports on 880 ("on the 8's") and 1010 ("on the 1's") AM to find out if there are problems on the GW Bridge. If there are, I head for the Tappan Zee Bridge, which connects via I-287 to I-684 and I-95 in New York and to the Garden State Parkway in New Jersey. But unless there is trouble on the GW, that is definitely the quicker route. Marco polo (talk) 18:20, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

The approach to problems of this general nature in the UK is to have either separate signs, both valid and clearly distinguishable as to type, and/or to have the local designation on signs first with the long-distance designation immediately following, in parentheses: this concisely indicates that although locally the road has a different designation, eventually it will (perhaps via signposted turns further on) lead you on/back to the long-distance route. When bypasses are built, the long-distance designation is either switched immediately to the new bypass, or the latter gains a new and clearly higher category designation than the through-town route, and all signage is either appropriately modified or installed in place immediately - the latter is generally erected weeks to months beforehand but covered over, with the covers being removed in the early hours of the day the new route is implemented. Of course, the term "long distance" is relative; our country is sufficiently compact that all signage will be within reasonable range of the Highways Agency or Local Council depot responsible for it, and changes to the designations of the longest routes - Motorways - are sufficiently infrequent that they would be nationally newsworthy long in advance. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.205 (talk) 13:51, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Driving to New York City - Where to Put My Car

I am going to drive quite a long ways to New York City this weekend, and staying the night in a hostel. I will be driving back the next day. My primary question is what to do with my car while I'm there? I have never been to NYC, but I am assuming parking isn't readily available, especially at a hostel. Do I park it at some sort of public transportation station and then ride public transit in to the city? Or perhaps there are paid parking decks for one night? Any advice and recommendations are welcome! Thanks. TheGrimme (talk) 15:51, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

http://ask.metafilter.com/78724/Cheap-overnight-parking-in-New-York has a few suggestions, parking on the street being one of the more popular one (seems - like most cities - a case of knowing which streets are 'free parking' and which aren't, and then also noting about cleaning schedules). ny156uk (talk) 16:09, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I suggest you call the hostel for advice. Or see whether parking is mentioned on their website. They would be in the best position to know the area.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:12, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

It depends on where. It also depends on when. Parking regulations may be relaxed on weekends. But you have to read the signs carefully. It can be cheaper than using parking lots. But it can be intimidating to the uninitiated. And getting your car towed and ticketed is not likely to be an enjoyable experience. This has a little bit (not much) information. As already mentioned, calling or emailing the hostel might not be a bad idea.

This is more helpful. It actually allows you to determine the parking regulations on a particular street. I would probably find it easier to get to the Moon but you may be able to decipher it. Mayor Bloomberg has instituted strict laws against comprehensibility pertaining to parking regulations. Bus stop (talk) 16:34, 14 September 2011 (UTC) Bus stop (talk) 16:26, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

You might find this to be helpful.

• Find Parking Lots, Parking Garages, Parking Meters, Private Garages - Book Parking

—Wavelength (talk) 17:05, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

On some streets, there is free parking, but with prohibited times for street cleaning. What you do is arrive on the street a half hour or more before street cleaning times end. When the time expires, you get out of your car. This is how you can park for free two block from the Metropolitain Museum of Art. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.38.31.81 (talk) 20:22, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I once parked right across the street from the Guggenheim Museum, on 5th Avenue on a Saturday afternoon. There was plenty of other on-street parking if you were prepared to drive around a bit and got lucky as someone else left a space. Otherwise, there were plenty of garages, but many of these were narrow multi-storey places where you have to leave the keys and the attendants park the car for you by taking it up in a lift. I had a lot of stuff in the trunk and thought I might need to return to the car several times to retrieve a change of clothes or to leave my shopping, so I didn't thin k that kind of garage would be so convenient. Astronaut (talk) 13:21, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Timing is really key when it comes to parking on the street in Manhattan (apart from all of the restrictions mentioned above). Here's the issue. City residents, like everyone else, tend to be out and about during the day, either driving to work or running errands. It can be easy to find a spot on a residential street at these times. However, if you are driving a long way to New York, I am guessing that you will be arriving in the evening, by which time residents will have taken virtually all available parking spaces on residential streets, and suburbanites and people who work there will have taken all available spaces on commercial streets. If you arrive very late in the evening (maybe after 9:30), you might find a space on a commercial street that lacks nightlife, but you might have to spend some time cruising. Unless you are very short on money, I would plan to find a parking lot or garage where you can park overnight for $20 or less. Marco polo (talk) 18:12, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Statistic about Sweden or Norway or maybe even Finland

A good few years ago now I read in an article on The Guardian website by Polly Toynbee where she mentioned that Sweden (I think) had a unique year whereby every single child that had a 9th birthday in year X (say 1995) had a 10th birthday in year Y (say 1996). That is... not one child of age 9 died in an entire year) Apparently a sign of just how wonderful said country's safety/equality/healthcare system is. I've not been able to track this statistic down anywhere and there's a good chance my memory has muddled things over the years but i'm pretty certain the basic stat is right - that in 1 year no child of age X died in {insert nordic country here}. Anybody any ideas how could track this down? Other stats around this sort of thing. ny156uk (talk) 16:30, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I vaguely remember reading the same thing but what I remember from it was the statistical serendipity. It wasn't the case that every 9 year old survived but rather that there were exactly the same number, due to migration. Stanstaple (talk) 19:33, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

This was mentioned in an episode of QI - according to which the country was Sweden, and the age was 8. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 14:41, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

And it's not really very interesting at all - it's just a statistical fluke. There are many instances where the number would have been about the same - in countries where the number of deaths in a particular age cohort, plus the numbers of that age moving out of the country, would have been about equal to the number moving into the country. The fact that the numbers were identical is a coincidence, and it's utter nonsense to suggest that it has anything to do with that country's healthcare system. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:50, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Note that the OP stated it as every single child that had a 9th birthday in year X (say 1995) had a 10th birthday in year Y (say 1996), not that there were the same number of children turning ten one year as there were turning nine the previous year. So as quoted, it is not a coincidence. A reference has not yet been provided suggesting that this is in fact true for some country and year is a different story. -- 49.228.193.29 (talk) 16:57, 15 September 2011 (UTC) In Fredonia, every child who had a tenth birthday this year had a ninth birthday last year!

List of candidates participating in the Google/Fox News debate

I have been looking for a list of the candidates participating in the Google/Fox News Republican debate, but I can't find one. Who is participating? --Melab±1 ☎ 22:36, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

[3] suggests it's TBD. Most sources I've read including Fox New and YouTube suggest it's Republican primary candidates. This would likely suggest while there is surely a limit (may be not fixed) on the number of people they would invite, it would also depend on who's confirmed they are running in the primaries and I guess their current level of support based on polling. The debate is slightly over a week away so it's not that urgent. If Sarah Palin announces her candidacy tomorrow, I would guess there's a fair chance she would be invited despite being a Fox News commentator and a late official arriver. Nil Einne (talk) 15:23, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

FYI the site now says "Perry, Bachmann, Romney, Paul, Gingrich, Cain, Santorum, Huntsman" Nil Einne (talk) 00:33, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Princess Margaret retiring last B29 WWII bomber from RAF Molesworth, England 1956/57

I was stationed at RAF Station Molesworth,England in 1955/56/57. In 1956/57 thre was a cermony retiring the last B29 WWII bomber from England and Princess Margaret was the keynote speaker. I have searched all places I could think of and found nothing on this item. I sure would like any information on this item. Thank you very much

Fred Knippel — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.136.26.20 (talk) 23:34, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi Fred, you might like to contact the RAF Museum at Hendon. This page will give you the information you need to continue your research. Good luck! --TammyMoet (talk) 07:22, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

582nd Air Resupply Group seems to be the unit in question; it isn't explicit on what aircraft they used at the time, but notes they were stood down as a supply group on 25 October 1956, which seems about right. Princess Margaret spent 21 September - 26 October on a tour of Africa. I've run back through her itinerary in the Times until 1 August - it diligently reports all official engagements - and haven't seen anything that looks like her visiting Molesworth. However, there's an entry in the Times for 13 October stating that the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester had attended a USAF reception at Molesworth - perhaps this is what you're remembering? It would certainly fit with a plausible retiral date. Shimgray | talk | 21:48, 16 September 2011 (UTC)