Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2011 February 20

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February 20

Why Doesn't the recoil from Handguns hurt?

Although I have never been shot by a bullet, I've read anecdotes on the web that being shot with a handgun bullet while wearing a bulletproof best is similar to being struck by a sledgehammer or a baseball bat. From Newton's Third Law would this not mean that the recoil of the gun would feel equal or more than being hit by a sledgehammer/bat? Having fired handguns, I do not feel like I'm being hit by a sledgehammer each time I pull the trigger. Acceptable (talk) 02:50, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty of cross-posting this to the science desk, asking any answers to be posted here.CS Miller (talk) 17:41, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I think the sledgehammer analogy might be a bit extreme, though a large mass at low speed has the same momentum as a small mass at high speed (with mass and speed in inverse proportions). Even a magnum bullet will impart a momentum of less than an inch per second to a human body. The film cliche of people being thrown back by the momentum of a handgun bullet is entirely false. The baseball bat analogy is better because a bullet can certainly cause a painful bruise, even when it doesn't penetrate the skin. If you've ever fired a shotgun holding it a distance from your shoulder, you'll know that the recoil momentum can be as painful as that of a baseball bat. Dbfirs 08:05, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

You might get a better answer on the Science Reference Desk, but here are some reasons that are kind of interconnected. First, I guess that a bullet that is stopped by a bulletproof vest stops in a couple of inches. A handgun usually has a barrel length of at least 4", which means that the force needed to accelerate/decelerate the bullet is much larger on the receiving end. Also, how the recoil feels doesn't really depend on the kinetic energy or the momentum of the weapon, but more on the maximum speed of the weapon during the recoil. If you fire identical cartridges from a light and a heavy weapon the recoil will be much more powerful with the lighter weapon. A handgun weighs about two pounds and a rifle considerably more, but when you're hit by a bullet the momentum is absorbed by the parts of the vest and of your body that are displaced by the bullet. Guessing again, i would say that's a few ounces which means that those parts will move faster. Thirdly, weapons are designed to distribute the recoil over as large an area as possible and as comfortably as possible, given all other design parameters. Lastly, expectations might have something to do with it. When you fire a weapon you know what to expect, but you usually don't when you're hit by a bullet.Sjö (talk) 09:33, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Come to think of it, another reason probably is that your hands are rather sturdy. They are the body parts you use to push, lift and strike so it should be expected that the same amount of force applied to your hands or to your torso would cause much less discomfort to your hands. Compare delivering a palm strike to receiving one.Sjö (talk) 12:26, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure about hand-guns, but with shot-guns, if you don't hold the butt firmly against your shoulder, when you fire the gun, the recoil will accelerate the gun into your shoulder, and can cause a bad bruise. If you do hold the butt tightly against your shoulder, then the butt and your shoulder accelerate as one, and does not cause bruising. Extrapolating from this, if you hold the grip of a hand gun tightly against the fleshy part of your palm, then the gun will accelerate your palm, wrist, and lower arm as one. CS Miller (talk) 17:24, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

That makes sense in the light that the projectile accelerates (and thus the gun pushes in the opposite direction) for the whole length of the barrel. The impulse to the shoulder is over a longer period of time if the butt is against the shoulder the whole time, as opposed to letting the gun to accelerate to full speed and then hit the shoulder. --85.77.201.52 (talk) 16:31, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

This section of the Recoil article may be helpful, but I believe CS Miller is correct (I can personally attest to the bruising left by an improperly held shotgun). I know that people have had their thumbs torn half off by a handgun slide due to improper grip, so there is a obviously a large amount of force being sent backwards, but when a handgun is properly held there isn't a gap between the gun and your body, so it can't STRIKE you, instead it accerates your whole limb. i.m.canadian (talk) 18:23, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

• This got some good responses at the Science desk, too. My answer had to do with kinetic energy transfer. WikiDao ☯ 18:15, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Do US soldiers get to keep guns after military?

Do soldiers in the US military get to keep their service rifles and handguns after retirement or discharge? Acceptable (talk) 02:50, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

No, I don't think so. There is a program for veterns to get a gun, one person recived their gun that they had put their initals in back throught this progrem. Sumsum2010·T·C·Review me! 03:01, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

No. Weapons belong to the unit, so a soldier may go through several different weapons in their career. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 03:11, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

The OP is Canadian, does Canada have such a custom? I know that Switzerland does allow each former soldier to keep their weapon (so, the country is well protected, even being much smaller than its neighbors). 212.169.189.114 (talk) 04:05, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I really doubted that Switzerland did that, but it appears they do [1] if the soldier fulfills some conditions and pays a fee of 60 or 100 CHF depending on the model (approx. the same in USD). Interesting.Sjö (talk) 12:34, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Many people don't associate Switzerland with weapon in the hands of civilians, but yes, many Swiss have a SIG_SG_550 in their basement. 81.47.150.216 (talk) 14:37, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

@212.169.189.114 The gun control laws in Canada are much stricter than in the US, so many military firearms would be prohibited regardless of whether the individual was formerly a soldier. Oddly enough, though, I don't see Colt Canada among the list of proscribed firearms in that article and they're the ones that make the small arms for the Canadian military. Matt Deres (talk) 17:11, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I imagine Colt Canada isn't on that list due to the fact the C7 is already prohibited under the more all-encompassing condition that it is an automatic weapon. As for the CF issued sidearm, the answer for the OP would be no for the same reason Gadget850 mentioned for US troops. i.m.canadian (talk) 18:54, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh, of course. That was stupid of me - I actually worked at the original Diemaco plant and even fired some of the guns, but it was always in single-shot mode. D'oh. Matt Deres (talk) 14:32, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

I've heard many stories about soldiers returning with weapons after WW2, but whether the majority of those were bought or found oversees is unclear to me, as is the legal particulars of that. Modern military personnel in the U.S. are not given firearms when they return to civilian life as far as I know. Shadowjams (talk) 11:01, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Maybe they were allowed to keep them after WW2, due to the huge number of them? Sumsum2010·T·C·Review me! 22:09, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

U.S. one dollar bill

This denomination has not been redesigned in recent years, although all of the other denominations have. Why is this? When will it happen? Hemoroid Agastordoff (talk) 03:53, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

One likely reason is that $1 bills are hardly ever counterfeited. So why over protect what isn't going to be stolen. Dismas|^(talk) 03:57, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Maybe there are plans to replace it with a coin, as most other countries have now done for currency of that value. HiLo48 (talk) 04:10, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

The United States has made some very halfhearted efforts to replace the dollar bill with a coin for some time now. The most recent push began with minting Sacagawea dollar coins about ten years ago, however these dollar coins are still encountered only in vending machines. Unlike most other countries which have adopted a dollar coin (compare Canadian 1 dollar coin and Australian 1 dollar note, for example), the United States has not withdrawn the dollar banknote from circulation, and there has therefore been no reason for businesses or the general public to adopt the coin. (See also Dollar coin (United States), Save the Greenback.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 05:58, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I think the "most recent push" was with the Presidential $1 Coin, and we even have an article specific to that - Presidential $1 Coin Program. --LarryMac | Talk 18:00, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

No reason? Do Americans really think that other countries had no reason to change? How about space and tidiness? HiLo48 (talk) 06:06, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

In general, the US isn't influenced much by the rationale of other countries, and consistency with "furriners" is likely to hurt an argument's cause, rather than help it (c.f. the metric system). Regarding space, volumetricly, the US dollar bill doesn't take up any more space than the US dollar coins (it's wider, but it's also thinner) and for tidiness, most Americans would probably view a billfold full of stacked dollar bills as tidier than a pocket or coin purse full of loose dollar coins, all mixed together with quarters, dimes, nickels and pennies. (Indeed, when I pay $6.30 for something in cash, pulling the $5 and $1 bills takes much less time than fishing in my pockets to find the quarter and nickel.) -- 174.21.250.120 (talk) 18:13, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

What!? You mean you don't hand over two $5 bills and say "Keep the change"? Have we all been misled by all those American movies in which coins don't seem to exist, or if they do, they're of no interest to the characters? I wonder if there's a connection between "We don't like change" and "We don't like change". Hmmm ... -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 18:21, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Buddha taught that change must come from within. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:00, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Unlikely. The biggest problem with a standardized US dollar coin is the fact that most American cash registers don't have slots for dollar coins. Corvus cornix_talk 06:03, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Guess what? The same applied in every other country before they changed. HiLo48 (talk) 06:06, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Americans don't like to change. Our currency is all dull green, it's only just now added subtle color variations.  :) Corvus cornix_talk 07:49, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I think you've just taken the wisest approach with that first sentence. Any attempt to apply other logic tends to fail on these matters. HiLo48 (talk) 08:08, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

If we can take a quick break from projecting our nationalistic prejudices onto currency... you might be interested in the Coins of the United States dollar, for the 3 types of dollar coins in circulation in the U.S., and read the Treasury's official page on currency, [2]. By the way the OP only asked about the dollar bill. I personally find the lack of single denomination bills in Europe annoying, as I don't like a pocket full of change. But what do I know, as a resistant to change American. Shadowjams (talk) 10:57, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps the purpose of the dollar comes into things here. From my admittedly and sadly limited experience inside the USA, I'd say that one of the major uses of dollar bills is for tipping. In places where that is not so common (the rest of the world?) maybe one doesn't need to carry so many coins of that denomination. HiLo48 (talk) 15:29, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

The 2-cent Euro coin is especially irritating. Adam Bishop (talk) 12:36, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Why? I will say that in Australia, where the one and two cent coins have been abolished, the five cent coin, perhaps the equivalent of the 2-cent Euro, seems t be facing the same threat. HiLo48 (talk) 15:29, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I think in most systems the lowest-value item of currency is always going to be next cab off the rank for abolition, so its life expectancy is always a little less certain than the others. I note that supermarkets like to keep their prices all nice and neat for the convenience of their dear customers, and rather than fussing with those pesky cents, they'll raise the price of an item from, say, $8 a kilo straight to $9 a kilo. How very thoughtful of them. Which bodes ill for any coin less than $1. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 17:57, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

That's interesting because British supermarkets still think they can fool their customers with £7.99 and £8.99 (or perhaps they like to give pennies in change?) Dbfirs 23:13, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

The OP might be interested in reading our Save the Greenback and Coin Coalition articles, which are on two organisations that take the opposite stance on this matter. We also have an efforts to eliminate the penny in the United States article, which is also relevant. CS Miller (talk) 12:31, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Anecdote - I (a non USA resident) gave a dollar coin as a tip once. The guy thought I was being cheap until I pointed out it was a DOLLAR coin - he'd never had one before. Exxolon (talk) 16:42, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

One problem that nobody has yet mentioned (although the anecdote above hints at it) is that all the recent attempts at introducing a dollar coin have involved something with size and shape similar to a quarter. It's annoying to have to examine something closely to tell what its value is. Looie496 (talk) 17:32, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I had a similar reaction with a bum a number of years ago. Didn't understand what I had given him until I explained it. Dismas|^(talk) 17:35, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I just recently got a Susan B. Anthony dollar coin in change, and didn't even notice it till I got home, and apparently the person who gave it to me thought they were giving me a quarter. Corvus cornix_talk 19:51, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I had the same bewildering response to a dollar coin given as changea tip - in central Washington D.C. of all places!

Personally, I found carrying a wad of $1 bills around for tipping purposes pretty unsanitary, especially given that they are paper notes. Coins or, as we have in Australia, plastic bank notes, at least don't feel so grubby. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 20:14, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I can't wait until the dollar bill is phased out. The dollar buys so little that it doesn't belong in my wallet with my folding money.

While we're at it, let's phase out the penny, so that overall our pockets will be lighter. APL (talk) 20:31, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps tellingly, the only place I've gotten dollar coins (unless you ask for them at the bank) is as change from the Post Office. Shadowjams (talk) 20:47, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

It tells you that they're not in popular use.

Other nation's "one" coins didn't become popular until they stopped producing the bills.

A few years later the people of those nation are so used to it that they think we're crazy for still having dollar bills.

Clearly we just need to take the plunge. APL (talk) 20:52, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

When I was in Boston last week, the subway ticket machines spit out $1 coins as our change. Our Canadian group found this somewhat funny and referred to them as "American loonies," or more descriptively, "arcade tokens," because that's what they looked like to us compared with Canadian loonies. Knowing that $1 coins aren't common in the States, we were not quite sure if most places in the US would accept "arcade tokens" as legal tender, so I mostly tried to spend them in the first couple days of our trip to get rid of them--especially as tips at restaurants so they wouldn't have a chance to reject them. The point of this story isn't to make fun of American loonies, though, just to point out two things: 1) that if the subway machine gives them out, there must be some sort of attempt to use coins instead of bills, but also 2) that our uncertainty about their usefulness suggests that they don't seem to be catching on... The vending machine in our hotel certainly wouldn't take them. Cherry Red Toenails (talk) 22:53, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

There's a lot of WP:RECENTISM in this thread! Truth is, one-dollar coins have never been popular in the United States, including when they were silver dollars that were the largest coin minted in the US. (Possibly partially for that very reason.) Our Dollar coin (United States) article soft-pedals this a little in the intro, only stating that dollar coins have been unpopular since the early 1900s. It does refer to the Save the Greenback (previously linked above) group, which does sound pretty dumb. Comet Tuttle (talk) 00:13, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

The main problem with the old-old silver dollars was how heavy they were. And that's still a factor. The weight of a dollar bill is nothing compared with even a Sacagawea coin or a "Susie". One comment I saw some years ago is that the Europeans, having switched from bills to coins, has forced men to carry "purses" to carry their heavy coins in. It's one thing to have a dollar coin or two, which you can dispose of as soon as you buy something. But to have only dollar coins available is something Americans would likely resist. The average American male is not too keen on carrying a purse (although backpacks have become popular as a unisex kind of "purse"). The fact that Europeans and Canadians remained silent while this change was forced on them, does not cut much mustard with American. As noted above, if anything it would tend to make us more resistant. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:42, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Don't Americans and/or Europeans have access to wallets...? Vimescarrot (talk) 08:08, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Sure, that's where you keep folding money, and a few coins. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:36, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Digression on how people carry their money in Europe. In the UK, men usually keep notes and credit cards in a wallet, coins in trouser pocket. Women keep notes, cards and coins in a "purse", within a "handbag". In continental Europe men are more likely to carry "manbags", little handbags - that's because they are required to, or find it convenient to, have their identity papers with them. Two-pound coins, and two-euro coins are heavy, but they don't annoy us so much as the small change. Itsmejudith (talk) 10:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Change was often carried in pockets in the old days (hence the term "deep pockets") and wearing suspenders guarded against the weight pulling one's pants down. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:29, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

You'd get some funny looks if you tried holding your trousers up with suspenders in Britain. DuncanHill (talk) 16:05, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh, that confused-by-a-common-language thing again. What USAians call "suspenders", Brits call "braces". What Brits call "suspenders", USAians call "garter belts". Which are rarely worn in the USA, except by lumberjacks. PhGustaf (talk) 19:30, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Only if they're working in the Canadian Rockies, though. That sort of behaviour would be frowned upon in the staid old USA.  :) -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 20:20, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I can't help thinking that this has a lot to do with the American custom of tipping, much rarer in the countries whose currency the USA's has been compared with here. If all you do with dollars is buy stuff, a small, practical size is used. If you use them for tipping, you want them to be larger and conspicuous so that your generosity is more noticeable. HiLo48 (talk) 19:41, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Good point. In Vegas, the custom is for tourists to tip (or "toke") at every opportunity, and the usual way to do this is with a pocketful of dollar chips. No toke, and the cocktail waitress won't be back any time soon. PhGustaf (talk) 19:53, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Carrying coins around is annoying. The only thing I do with change is dump it into a jar at the end of each day until it's full enough to bring to the bank. Unless the choice to use bills is taken away, I don't see myself ever switching. For me, it has nothing to do with simply being resistant to change (not the currency variety) or wanting my tips to be noticed (seriously? on that suggestion...) If dollar bills caused my wallet to be too full, I'd still prefer a slim money clip full of ones in my front pocket to a sloppy jingling pile of change. --Onorem♠Dil 20:32, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

They put fob pockets in men's trousers precisely to have a convenient place for coins and to stop them jingling around in your main pocket and weighing you down. But, just as you wouldn't normally have $1,000 in $10 notes in your wallet, you wouldn't have more than half a dozen coins in your fob. It doesn't hold many more than that anyway, depending on the size of the coins. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 20:38, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

You don't have to carry $100 in $1 coins in other countries, but in the US tipping using $1 bills is ubiquitous and so if they converted to $1 coins wholesale they'd have to either change the way they tip or carry a big load of coins in one's pocket - probably a lot more than a fob pocket or even a pocket can hold.

So you see, changing this tipping culture not only leads to more equitable pay conditions, it also paves the way towards dollar coins becoming accepted! --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 21:15, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

And everybody would have to start wearing Levi's jeans with the pocket rivets, to keep the weight of all of the coins from ripping out the pockets.  :) Corvus cornix_talk 21:31, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Having lived and traveled extensively in Europe and other parts of the world, I find the persistence of the dollar bill in my home country hard to understand. Feeding dollar bills into change machines and vending machines is so much more tedious and frustrating than using coins with some value. I never found it a problem to carry the larger European coins in my pocket. Also, I've never seen European or British men with purses. If you live in a country where coins are worth something, you just don't allow them to pile up in your pocket as many Americans do; you spend them. As for tipping, I really think it's a non-issue. You can ask for the waiter to include extra dollar bills in the change just as easily as you can ask for extra dollar coins. Our tipping practices are no reason to keep piles of dollar bills on hand. Marco polo (talk) 01:07, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Starting with about the second response, y'all have forgotten what the original question was.

The OP asked why the bill hasn't been redesigned, and the answer lies largely with the vending machine industry. Having finally invested in machines that accept bills at all -- and validate them to make sure they're the right color and not just photocopies and all that -- they are loath to invest in supporting multiple designs of the $1 bill. It's a substantial cost with no benefit.

THAT is the primary answer to the original question -- redesigning the $1 note has NOTHING to do with tipping practices. DaHorsesMouth (talk) 03:09, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

What about the one-euro-bill? --84.61.155.241 (talk) 09:55, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Typographic guidelines for technical documents

I'm looking for guidelines for formatting technical documents. If there are commonly adopted design choices and conventions in graphic design, I'd like to know about them. A few specific things I'm looking for guidelines on:

• Font size & style of section headings at various levels, relative to the font size of the body text (e.g. em-width, x-height, ...)
• Spacing between the end of one section and the header of the next
• Spacing between a section header and the body text
• Line spacing
• Spacing between paragraphs
• In a section heading, the spacing and separator character between the section number and the text of the heading

For each of the dimensions, I'd like to know what other dimensions they should be keyed to, so that proper adjustments can be made when the body text font is changed. It'd be good if the rationale behind the choices are explained.

Thanks in advance. --96.227.60.254 (talk) 12:46, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

One of the simpler styles embedded in Microsoft Word might be suitable. It probably depends on the technical field you are thinking of. Say it is electronic engineering, could you get hold of some documents in a library and see how they are laid out? Itsmejudith (talk) 10:17, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

It WILL depend on the specific field. If your technical document falls under the physical sciences then our article on manuals of style would suggest the American Chemical Society's style guide would be appropriate, though if by technical you're referring to computing or engineering documents there doesn't seem to be a specific guide listed on our page for that. i.m.canadian (talk) 19:12, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

The LaTeX system is pretty widely used for technical documents, but I don't know exactly how to look up its style parameters. Looie496 (talk) 05:09, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

What is the nerve of latarjet and is it preserved in vagotomy?

what is the nerve of latarjet a branch of and what does it supply? what is its function? is it retained in vagotomy or retained only in certain types of vagotomy?

My dictionary says function is "typically to reduce the rate of gastric secretion (e.g., in treating peptic ulcers).|"--85.211.161.177 (talk) 13:56, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

We have an article on vagotomy, although it is not terribly detailed. We do not seem to have any mention of any sort of 'latarjet', sadly, so I looked elsewhere. This Surgery Encyclopedia discusses it, but I didn't find it terribly clear with regards your question. These Inside Surgery links are far more helpful, telling us the left nerve of Latarjet is a "[b]ranch of [the] left vagus nerve" and the right nerve of Latarjet is a branch of the right vagus nerve. It also tells us that there is division in selective and highly selective vagotomy, but it is silent on complete vagotomy. Perhaps this means more to you than to me. I think you would also find this overview useful. My untrained reading of this is that it is retained only in certain types of vagotomy, with a wide variation in exactly what is removed, but I would appreciate someone with more anatomical knowledge weighing in. It seems reasonable to assume it would be completely removed in a complete vagotomy, for example, but I have long learnt that 'reasonable to assume' counts for little in this area. 86.161.110.118 (talk) 19:59, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Apparently not neccesarily, if the latest procedures are followed. See Resection of Terminal Vagal Branches to Parietal Cell Mass in the Treatment of Duodenal Ulcer (NIH.GOV) --Red King (talk) 21:03, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Per this, there are two (anterior and posterior), and it probably maps to Anterior gastric branches of anterior vagal trunk and Posterior gastric branches of posterior vagal trunk. --Arcadian (talk) 22:12, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Personal firearms in the US military

Leading on from the question above about US vets keeping service issued weapons after discharge, do the US military arms (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard) allow serving members to purchase, own, retain, store on military facilities etc their own personal firearms? If they don't, how do they reconcile that against the "right to bear arms" amendment? Exxolon (talk) 16:45, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Military personnel may purchase private firearms. Many military bases have a Rod and Gun Club that sells firearms, operates ranges and provides storage, for eample, Fort Bliss Personnel in the barracks store firearms in the arms room or the R&G. Private firearms and ammunition are not allowed in combat as there is no way to ensure they meet the various laws of war; for example, the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 ban hollow-point bullets. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 17:11, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Sructural steel

Hi. I have tried to find what type of HSS i need to built a motorcycle trailer. the bike weights 690#, overall length 99 inches. wheelbase 66.1 ". curb mass front 345 #, rear 399 #. The trailer would consist of : One square structural steel tube on a 1200 # torsion axle . The bike will rest on top oh the steel bar. The maximun i can find is 1/4" wall. structural steel. Is that enought?186.142.207.161 (talk) 19:00, 20 February 2011 (UTC)186.142.207.161 (talk) 18:42, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.142.207.161 (talk) 18:37, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article about Motorcycle trailer noting that can mean either for carrying or being pulled by motorcycles. The article plus its references may help your building project but we cannot provide how-to engineering plans. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:51, 20 February 2011 (UTC)