Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008 July 11

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July 11

Patents

What does it mean when a land or mine patent is outdated, do they still have rights to it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.143.158.156 (talk) 01:33, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Mining Patents are sales aggreements, so I don't see how they can become "outdated". In what context did you see that? Do you have a link? Fribbler (talk) 14:05, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I was looking up a mine at the Asseossors office and the man couldn't find it, he concluded that the patent was outdated. If a patent or land agreement was from the 1930's could it still be active or considered private property, could the patent run out after a certain date? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.143.241.20 (talk) 23:11, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Seat belts in Military helicopters

When soldiers are flying in Blackhawk helicopters with the doors open, are they usually wearing seat belts or some other forms of seat restraints? Although I've never flown in one, it seems to me that when the helicopter banks or turns, the soldiers inside are susceptible to falling out if unrestrained. Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 04:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure they're obliged to wear seatbelts unless they are about to jump. I wonder what makes you think otherwise.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about Blackhawks specifically, but in a British RAF Chinook anyone in a seat will be wearing a seatbelt, but if the ramp is open then the loadmaster will wear a "monkey harness" to move around. Basically, a big belt with a long strap fixed back inside the cabin. It (used to be?) fairly common for people wearing a monkey harness to sit on the edge of the ramp with their legs dangling over the edge, just for fun. 81.187.153.189 (talk) 08:14, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Just Responses

RE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2008_July_5#Couldn.27t_get_a_answer_on_Humanities_or_Entertainment

To Julia, No I didn't try the language desk.

To LambaJan, Yes, you would think that if all the songs in the entire genre are in the same key would be significant enough to be in the article, but unfortunately, some articles are terrible, and they don't list information like that, for whatever reason. Maybe because the contributors of the article did not bother to include information (like the aforementioned information) for their racist agenda, who knows.68.148.164.166 (talk) 06:28, 11 July 2008 (UTC)68.148.164.166 (talk) 06:33, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

The reason could well be that it's not true. Chinese music is unlikely to all fit exactly to one western scale, even within one genre. You could try reading up on Chinese musicology, hopefully from a more comprehensive source than our article. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 11:25, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

It would be much easier on everyone if you would post your responses at the relevant open discussions. It's not necessary to make a new section for this or post responses to talk pages. In fact it's confusing because it leaves a lot of people not knowing what is going on in the conversation. It's like having a conversation with ten people in five different rooms at the same time. I just got to this section now after having already responded to my talk page, the still open original question and the new one on the language desk, now I finally understand why that one is there. I gave a more comprehensive answer there, you might find it interesting. -LambaJan (talk) 15:05, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

iq question

our teacher asked us this question and we have to think of the answer in 2 days... so... puleeez help a car with three windows and very much similar looking ends (so we can't distinguish which is the head and tail)is on a bridge. in which direction is the car moving: left or right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.50.248.203 (talk) 10:36, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Taking your question literally (and using the very, very limited amount of information you provided), here's some of the answers I came up with:

• Look at which direction the wheels are turning.
• Look at the direction the driver inside the car is facing (assuming he is actually looking, and not driving blindly!)
• If it's night, you can probably distinguish the headlights from the taillights.

If you give us more information about the problem, we can give you better answers. Remember, however, we will not answer homework questions for you. « Aaron Rotenberg « Talk « 11:00, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Here's my attempt at interpreting the question. Left and right are Relative directions. So if the car is moving, you need to consider which direction the car is moving relative to the car. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 11:07, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Also, what kind of car has three windows? I certainly haven't seen one; maybe that's a clue. « Aaron Rotenberg « Talk « 12:38, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

• Look at which side of the road the car is on. If it's on the near side of the bridge, and people in your country drive on the right, it's probably going to your right. 81.174.226.229 (talk) 13:25, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe the car's not moving at all? Anyway, I think you either remembered the question wrong or are recounting it to us wrong. As it is, it is not a coherent or answerable question in the form you've given it. At best it is a poor quality riddle. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 14:33, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Left. It's not a car, it's a bus. Matt Deres (talk) 15:38, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

That, mr Deres, depends entirely on if the bridge is located in a country where traffic is on the right or left hand side of the road. What Matt refers to is the following: If the vehicle is indeed a bus, its direction can be deduced from where its doors are, since a drawing of a bus usually has doors only on the side close to the kerb. /Kriko (talk) 17:15, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I've never come across a car that moves left or right. All the ones I know move forward (and occasionally backward). --ColinFine (talk) 21:55, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, that's relative to itself. Relative to an observer, it can indeed move to the left or to the right. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:02, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Colin. If it moves left or right, it'll fall off the bridge. More analytically, though... *three* windows? That's surely a clue. If it's identical front and back, either it has only one window somewhere on one of its sides (or the roof), or it has no windows at front or back! If any of those are the case, then this is the sort of logic problem where you have to question exactly what kind of "car" (or maybe "bridge") this actually is - it doesn't sound like a roadworthy automobile, anyway. Cablecar? Subway car? Grutness...wha? 12:17, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Jack, that is relative to itself. And where in the original problem does it say anything about an observer? --ColinFine (talk) 22:20, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't. But given that a normal vehicle can't move left or right relative to itself or its driver, maybe it's implicit in the question that it's framed from the perspective of an observer. In fact, not just any observer, but one standing in a particular place. An observer standing on the opposite side of the vehicle would see it going left while the first observer would see it going right (or vice-versa). So it's either a poorly framed question, or we've not yet divined its true meaning. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:22, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, maybe. And maybe the lack of mention of an observer is the trick in the question. --ColinFine (talk) 10:11, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Glass

I was told that glass is a liquid, because, if one looks at glass in very ancient windows, like in cathedrals it is thicker at the bottom than at the top, this is because it flows very slowly. So what I would like to know is A, is glass a liquid? B, at what speed does a liquid need to flow to be considered a liquid and/or C, what is the substance betwwen liquid and solid? Sludge? Mud? Goo? Thanks people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 10:56, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

The first part (A) is dealt with here: Glass#Behavior of antique glass. Fribbler (talk) 11:03, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

oops edit conflict. Its a myth see for example [1]. Mhicaoidh (talk) 11:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, and thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 11:18, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Nothing to be sorry about! As to C, there are all sorts of suggestions (try googling between liquid solid) but not much consensus because it very much depends on conditions (atmosphere, temperature, pressure to say the least). Try State of matter and Phase (matter). And eek! heres the answer to B Viscosity of amorphous materials. Mhicaoidh (talk) 11:27, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Finding out the legitemacy of a foreign Travel Agency

I would like to know if "AKWABATOURSof ACCRA/GHANA is a scam or not69.3.198.187 (talk) 10:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

That name turned up no results in Google, which is a bad sign, West Africa or not. You might find this site a bit useful. I can understand (from personal experience) why you might want to deal with a travel agency in West Africa, but you might consider just forgoing that and taking care of things yourself. I guess it depends on your situation but Ghana Airways is reasonably professional and the consulate isn't too bad. Unless you know how to heckle you'll probably get gouged by the hotel (but a travel agency won't necessarily change that). Just make sure you pay upfront and tell them you don't want any room service and you're not taking anything from the fridge or cupboard so they might as well remove that stuff before you get there. The common scam is they remove a couple of bottles of liquor or whatever's there right when you're checking out and say you drank it and they charge you for it. That's why they'll fight you a bit when you insist on paying upfront. Just hold your ground and when they say no say you'll go somewhere else and turn around and start walking away. They'll most likely call you back and make a deal that's more in your favor. As a matter of fact, do that for everything. Get a friend who knows the prices and be content to pay a little bit more not anywhere near what they originally offer you -for anything. Walk away, there's always someone else selling the same thing and they know it. They nearly always call you back. -LambaJan (talk) 15:45, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) A google search for "akwaaba tours" (notice the spelling and space) showed up 649 hits.

Akwaaba Tours appear to be a tour operator specialising in trips to Ghana - official sites http://akwaabatours.com/ and http://akwaabaonline.com/. They are based in Maastrict, Netherlands (the second site has their address in Maastrict and phone number). If you read dutch, there are lots of links to them from various dutch online travel agents, but I couldn't find any independant reviews (good or bad). What makes you think it might be a scam?

Incidentally, they're not to be confused with http://www.akwaabatours.org/ who run tours of the Underground Railroad from Rochester, NY.

Astronaut (talk) 15:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Not to make fun of an innocent typo, LambaJan, but I cracked right up at the idea of heckling the guys at the hotel instead of haggling with them. "Your hotel sucks!" "Sir, please, just sign the guest register." "That's what your mom said! Woo!" -- Captain Disdain (talk) 19:57, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

lol! actually it looks like I got those words mixed up for real, so thanks. -LambaJan (talk) 01:35, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

solids and liquids

At what speed must a substance flow to be considered a liquid and/or what is the substance between solid and liquid? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.115.175.247 (talk) 11:19, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it's a question of speed, really. A good indicator that something is a liquid is if it tends to form an even surface when at rest. Another good definition is in our article on the subject, "a liquid's shape is confined to, not determined by, the container it fills." You may want to check out our article on states of matter. Some liquids are denser than others and thus move more slowly; in theory, you could have a liquid so dense that you couldn't really perceive any movement with the naked eye when it started to flow, but it would still be a liquid, not a solid. If, for example, you were to put a "chunk" of it into a bucket, it would would eventually result in it spreading itself evenly across the bottom. By comparison, a rock or a steel rod will never do this. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 11:56, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Also check out pitch drop experiment. --Sean 14:20, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

You may also find this bit from our glass article interesting. Matt Deres (talk) 15:41, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

ex wheelchair motors

Have two old wheelchair motors. They are dark blue in colour. Can find no markings on the cases. Motors at right angles to drive , wheels attached. Need to know voltage, or how to test for voltage.Kweery (talk) 11:27, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Apply DC from a power supply, adjust voltage until it's roughly at its normal speed? --antilived^{T | C | G} 11:36, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

..starting with a low voltage of course. DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:34, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

If the motors are permanent magnet ones with brushes (almost certain they would be) then you can spin the wheels at max. operating speed and check the voltage at the wires. That voltage is pretty much the max. voltage to use. For fun, connect the wires of one motor to the other, then spin one wheel and see the other spin. Polypipe Wrangler (talk) 04:03, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Given that there's a "right angle drive", there may well be a worm drive involved and it will not be possible to turn the motors by trying to turn the wheel shafts. Me, I'd guess that the motors run on 12V since the wheelchair probably used one standard 12V battery. 24V is also a possibility.

Atlant (talk) 18:13, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Arab street hookers dress

In the porn site, the models were wearing arab attire, where my wife can get those? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.128.34 (talk) 15:07, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm familiar with that web site. You might want to start here.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 16:41, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Or if you're looking for something more modest, you may wish to purchase an abaya (see picture) for your spouse.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 16:47, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Did you mean this? http://www.xxxsheila.com/gallery.php 87.102.86.73 (talk) 23:29, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Jesse Jackson's "nuts" comment

Recently, Jesse Jackson publicly expressed the desire to cut Barack Obama's nuts off. I am looking for an uncensored video or audio clip of this statement. Does such a clip exist anywhere online, or is the bleeped O'Reilly footage the only clip available?--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 16:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I was under the impression that Fox News was not releasing the uneditted tapes. Plasticup ^T/C 17:07, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes the clip apparently came from a comment Jesse Jackson made to another guest while waiting to be interviewed for Fox & Friends so Fox likely have copyright of and also complete control of the recordings Nil Einne (talk) 17:54, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I wasn't clear whether this clip made its premiere on The O'Reilly Factor in its censored form or whether it was originally a "slip-up" on live TV. Clearly, the former is the case.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 18:08, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

They actually held the tape for two days before first airing it. They said that they needed time to determine whether the language was too strong for their viewers, but they were obviously just trying to stretch the little story and hype up their star sex offender. Plasticup ^T/C 18:23, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Red Light Bulb

I have a red light bulb that has been around for many years..at least thirty, perhaps even more since I don't know where it really came from. It still works! I used it at my previous place of residence for the last eight years as my general lighting in the room where I used my desktop computer and it got anywhere from one to six (maybe more)hours of use every day. Then there was the occasional all nighter as well. Now at my new place it is used in another room and still going strong. The bulb is similiar to a hot dog in shape, but slightly thicker and slightly shorter. Probably 4-5 inches in length. Some of the red coloring has worn off. Does anyone have any idea what kind of bulb this is? I can try to post a picture of it this weekend if needed. thanks and cheers, 10draftsdeep (talk) 19:20, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I too had a red bulb that never broke.. (mine was normal shape) - does it have a clear red coating on it - my guess is that the bulb runs not as hot as normal bulbs and so lasts longer, or that it seems that it's lasted ages because the bulb is special. As I recall the bulbs originate from 'flame effect' electric fires..87.102.86.73 (talk) 22:18, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

When you say 'hot dog shaped' does it have electric contacts at both ends, or just one?87.102.86.73 (talk) 22:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

does this look similar http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230268527648 ? 87.102.86.73 (talk) 22:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

what about this http://images.google.co.uk/images?um=1&hl=en&q=fireglow+striplight ? 87.102.86.73 (talk) 22:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

or this http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/PROD/HolLandscape/901R ? 87.102.86.73 (talk) 22:35, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

See Light bulb#Voltage, light_output, and lifetime. Basically lightbulbs can last for ages if you run it at less than its rated power. Your light bulb probably has some irregularity that introduced a resistance in series to the filament, reducing its effective power and greatly prolonging its life. --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:31, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Come back when it gets as old as this one, Centennial Light, and we'll right an article about it. Rmhermen (talk) 14:52, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I have a yellow light bulb (regular shape) that's been in regular use for at least 20 years. It was the porch light at a rental we moved into in 1988 - I switched it out for a white bulb and used it in my bedroom for the soft warm glow it gave. I don't know how old it was when I got it - the house was built in 1936. But some of the yellow film on the outside is peeling off. Shuttlebug (talk) 20:32, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the response...the bulb looks nothing like the photos that were suggested, however, I took a couple shots and hope to post a link soon. Shuttlebug has a close story, as this bulb is in the bedroom now as well. And cool thing to bring up the Centennial Light, amazing.... more to come.cheers, 10draftsdeep (talk) 23:06, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

i used to have one of those large globe bulbs, which i snitched off the wall in my college dorm around 1970 and god knows how old it was then; used it on and off, mostly on, until about a year ago when a friend (@#$@@%!!) dropped it. it wasn't labelled as longlife or with 130 volts or anything like that. but i've also purchased a few other bulbs of that design and they are in general longer lived than regular size; i imagine they're designed that way, i can't see why it would be an effect of the size.Gzuckier (talk) 20:37, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

art therapy

If somebody could help me; i m looking for the significations of colours, to help the interprate a drawing picture of somebody. i m working in a therapy house and i have a project that could help uor clients.Thank you. Marie-Eve —Preceding unsigned comment added by Me n80 (talk • contribs) 20:57, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Uh, not to sound like a jerk or anything, but honestly, I'm kind of scared by the concept of someone who's actually working with people in a therapeutic capacity asking how to go about doing so on the Wikipedia Reference Desk. In any case, this is a pretty clear-cut case of someone asking for medical advice, which we're not supposed to give. (I also removed your e-mail address per the Ref Desk guidelines, which you can find at the very top of this page.) -- Captain Disdain (talk) 21:05, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Color psychology and its links might help. 190.190.224.115 (talk) 01:28, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Have no fears CD, art therapy never caused any harm to any one - never caused much good either. Richard Avery (talk) 06:54, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

This is probably true. Still... -- Captain Disdain (talk) 12:04, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with seeking information on the Internet, Wikipedia included, to expand and extend your own knowledge; everyone here is doing that in some way. It's questionable, though, whether information gathered in this manner is valid and reputable enough as a basis for you to design a treatment program. As you're working in some capacity in a "therapy house," you'd do well to consult the higher-educated members of the staff, as well as the institutions where you and they have received professional training, to investigate this topic before applying it to people in need of treatment or help. -- Deborahjay (talk) 18:35, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

auto trader

does ny 1 have any complaints about auto trader i have placed about 25 ads of these 8 have been not very good .they may have no phone no ,wrong pic ,incorrect details or may not be published at all,they phone for payment of ads not placed ,promise to give a bigger ad for free next issue for mistakes made then ask for payment .are there no competeters to take these modern day dick turpins on ≤≥±± —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.243.120 (talk) 21:17, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Their main competitors are local newspapers and web sites like ebay. -LambaJan (talk) 01:43, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

craigslist. Gzuckier (talk) 20:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

How much does the bar weigh

I want to know how much my bar weighs for weightlifting. I don't know where I got it, as it's my dad's bar anyways. Either way, I measured it, and found the length to be 5 feet 6 inches long, or 66 centimeters long. The circumference is about 3.5 inches. I don't know what the material it is that the bar is made of. I know it has two round things to close the weights so they don't move, and a silver tube in the middle of it. The ends of the bar are black. I need to know how much that bar actually weighs.76.212.131.226 (talk) 21:48, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Use a scale. 40lbs is a common weight, as I recall, but maybe there's some variation. Friday (talk) 21:50, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Per Friday. You can use a bathroom scale (if you have one) to get a rough idea—just weigh yourself, then weigh yourself while you're holding the bar, and take the difference. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:21, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I weighed it and found it was only 5 pounds. Is this normal for a bar?76.212.131.226 (talk) 22:48, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes. A few Kg is about right for a modern alloy bar (in this case 2 kilos). I was suprised to hear 17kg (40 pounds) above. Thats very heavy for a modern bar, you are meant to be able to discount the weight of the bar when calculating the total weight lifted. Fribbler (talk) 22:51, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

The standard weight for a free-weight bar, of the type used for bench press, is 45 lbs, counting the collars. If you leave the collars off (as I do, because I often lift when there's no one around, so I want to be able to dump the weights if I happen to get stuck), it's obviously a little less -- I did the weigh-myself-with-and-without thing and came up with about 40 lbs. --Trovatore (talk) 22:55, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

The steel bars (i.e. the expensive ones) are heavy, but the aluminium ones such as the one I have (cheap) are light. And I'm sure the OP's bar could be of the latter variety and be a few kilos at most Fribbler (talk) 23:00, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

There's also hollow steel tubular ones that way less than the solid 40kg or whatever.. without pictures we're stuck?87.102.86.73 (talk) 00:50, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

How the hell can it possibly be both 5'6" and 66cm long? 66cm is just a little over two feet in length. Matt Deres (talk) 16:13, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to take a wild stab and suggest that he meant 66 inches there (exactly equal to 5'6"). I suspect that he did the conversion to inches but didn't get around to the second step of converting inches to centimeters (about 168 cm) for the metric part of our readership. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)