Language desk
< August 6	<< Jul \| August \| Sep >>	Current desk >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

August 7

Singular or plural verb form

I just read this sentence in the Wikipedia article Murder of Dennis Jurgens: "In the 1960s, the term child abuse had not yet been coined and no one, not even medical professionals and teachers, were required to report suspicions." (bold-face added by me to text). Is the bold-face word "were" correct? Or should it be "was"? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:57, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The first and biggest problem is that the assertion that the term had not been coined by the 1960s is totally false. I'm seeing it in broad use in various entries in Newspapers.com at least as far back as the 1880s. As to the grammar part, "was" is probably better. But the fact is false. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:34, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Was" is correct. The writer has been confused by the proximity of the plural nouns "professionals" and "teachers", but they're not the subject of the verb. Henry ^Flower 08:45, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've put ^{[citation needed]} tags on those false or misleading statements. Before the 1960s, California was the only state requiring reporting. Before this kid's murder, quite a few other states had enacted such laws. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:47, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've corrected one of those tags to "dubious", since there is clear evidence that the statement about the age of the phrase is wrong. I don't want to just delete it because it's possible there is a weaker statement that could be substituted. --76.69.47.228 (talk) 04:06, 9 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I have no idea. But perhaps the author of that language was referring specifically to the State of Minnesota? Namely: In the State of Minnesota (where this murder had occurred), no one – not even medical professionals and teachers – was required to report suspicions. Perhaps that was the author's intent? As to the truth or falsity of the statements, I am wondering if that information – accurate or not – was perhaps found in the seminal book about the case, A Death in White Bear Lake? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:01, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That claim was made by GrimGrinningGuest (talk · contribs) when they created the article in 2005. The user has only made one edit in the last three years, so the possibility of getting them to clarify or explain is not strong. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:21, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I wasn't suggesting that someone here at Wikipedia "track down" that editor for an explanation. My suggestion was more along the lines of this: perhaps someone can "track down" the laws of Minnesota or "track down" that famous book, to verify or refute the claims. Probably all of that is online and on the Internet, I would guess. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:31, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

At the time the article was written, Wikipedia sourcing standards probably weren't so stringent, and an article with probably a relatively low volume of viewer traffic could get away with unsourced assertions. As for Minnesota, it appears to have enacted its child abuse law in 1975, putting it significantly behind the curve, as many states had enacted such laws by the early-to-mid 1960s, following California's lead in the 1950s. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:36, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, exactly my suspicion: that a state like Minnesota would be behind the curve in this matter. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:28, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And yet California was ahead of the curve. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:46, 8 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

On the purely linguistic question, the correct word is "was"; the subject of the verb is "no one", which is considered singular. It doesn't matter how many qualifiers, modifiers, or other words appear between the subject and the verb, the verb should always show agreement with the subject. --Jayron 32 18:21, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, all! I changed the verb to "was". Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:02, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved

Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:03, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"cesoie da tosatore" in english

what is the english for "cesoie da tosatore"(italian)?--93.61.55.121 (talk) 09:31, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Going out on a limb here... wikt:cesoie are "shears" and a wikt:tosatore is "shearer", so you may be looking for blade shears. --Wrongfilter (talk) 09:42, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This seems to agree. Bazza (talk) 09:57, 7 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]