Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2009 July 20

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July 20

Pronouncing Polanski's Early Films

I was just watching some of Polanski's early short films but for the life of me I can't figure out how to pronounce their titles.

They are:

• Uśmiech zębiczny
• Rozbijemy zabawę
• Morderstwo
• Dwaj ludzie z szafą
• Lampa
• Gdy spadają anioly
• Le Gros et le maigre
• Ssaki

Some of them are French and the rest Polish. I think Le Gros et le maigre might be the only French one. Can anyone help me pronounce these? Thanks. Pyro19 (talk) 00:20, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Polish: [ˈuɕmʲɛɣ zɛmˈbʲitʂnɨ], [rɔzbʲiˈjɛmɨ zaˈbavɛ] (or [-ɛ̃] in very formal speech), [mɔrˈdɛrstfɔ], [ˈdvaj ˈludʑɛ ˈsʃafɔ̃], [ˈlampa], you misspelled "Gdy spadają anioły" [ˈgdɨ spaˈdajɔ̃ aˈɲɔwɨ], [ˈsːakʲi]; French: [lə gʁɔ el(ə)mɛgʁ]. — Emil J. 11:56, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I would pronounce French: [lə gʁo e lə mɛgʁ] or French: [lə gʁo elmɛgʁ] (French: [o] not French: [ɔ], Parisian French pronounciation). — AldoSyrt (talk) 06:55, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

And if you can't read IPA, here's (much less accurate) spelled pronunciation:

• OOSH-myekh zem-BEECH-nih
• roz-bee-YEH-mih zah-BAH-veh
• morr-DERR-stfo
• dvay LOO-jeh s-SHAH-fom
• gdih spah-DAH-yom ah-NYO-wih
• luh GRO uh luh maygrr
• s-SAH-kee

— Kpalion^(talk) 16:25, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Ichthys

How would you pronounce Ichthys? Should there be a pronouncation on the article?174.3.103.39 (talk) 08:43, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, the Greek pronunciation went something like IPA: [ikʰtʰúːs] > [ikʰtʰýːs] > [ixθýs] > [ixˈθys] > [ixˈθis] during the ages, disregarding the fact that Greek /s/ is halfway between [s] and [ʃ]. IIUIC, the third one of these was current at the start of Christian era. — Emil J. 12:16, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

When used in English, I think /ˈɪkθɪs/ is the usual pronunciation. +Angr 12:22, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes there should be a pronounciation in the article. - try "Ik-fis". I'm not going to add it though, I leave that to you.83.100.250.79 (talk) 10:43, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Translation, please

By the way, I tried to convert the redlinks with [[fr: (and a pipe to hide the fr:) but the result didn't show properly. —Tamfang (talk) 20:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

You have to use ":fr:", not "fr:". I'll fix them. I don't know if anything can be done with the template one, though. --Anonymous, 21:15 UTC, July 21, 2009.

Goïswinthe

Goïswinthe ou Goswinthe ou Gonsuinthe (vers 530-589), est une reine wisigothe d'Espagne de la seconde moitié du VI^e siècle.

La mère de Brunehilde est réputée avoir été une femme de pouvoir, énergique et déterminée, ainsi qu'une fervente arienne.

Après la mort du roi Athanagild, son premier époux, elle épouse le frère et successeur supposé de ce dernier, Léovigild, afin de rester reine.

Ayant tenté de renverser son fils Récarède au moment où il faisait basculer l'Espagne entière dans le catholicisme, elle est exécutée, pendue dit-on, selon Maxime de Saragosse.

Grégoire de Tours l'évoque dans le 5ème Livre de ses « Histoires » : :« Il y eut cette année en Espagne une grande persécution des Chrétiens ; plusieurs furent envoyés en exil, privés de leurs biens, épuisés par la faim, enfermés dans les prisons, battus de verges et mis à mort par divers supplices. Ces crimes étaient dirigés surtout par Gonsuinthe (mère de Brunehault), que le roi fr:Léovigild avait épousée après la mort d’Athanagild. Mais la vengeance divine, sur ceux qui avaient infligé ces humiliations aux serviteurs de Dieu, se manifesta aux yeux de tous les peuples ; car un nuage blanc se répandit sur un des yeux de Gonsuinthe, et priva ses paupières de la lumière qui manquait à son esprit… ».

Grégoire dans le même livre l'accuse d'avoir tué sa petite fille, Ingonde (fille du roi Sigebert) après avoir voulu la convertir à la religion arienne ; « Ingonde, fille du roi Sigebert, avait été conduite en Espagne avec un grand appareil, et reçue très joyeusement par son aïeule Gonsuinthe. Mais celle-ci ne souffrit pas longtemps qu’elle demeurât dans la religion catholique, et commença, par de douces paroles, à vouloir lui persuader de se faire baptiser dans l’église arienne ; mais elle, s’y refusant avec un mâle courage , commença à dire : Il me suffit d’avoir été lavée une fois du péché originel par un baptême salutaire, et d’avoir confessé la sainte Trinité, égale à un seul Dieu. Je déclare que j’y crois de tout mon cœur, et jamais je ne renoncerai à ma foi. A ces paroles, Gonsuinthe, enflammée d’une colère furieuse, prit la jeune fille par les cheveux, et l’ayant jetée à terre, la foula longtemps sous ses pieds, et, couverte de sang, ordonna qu’elle fût dépouillée et plongée dans la piscine ; mais beaucoup assurent que son esprit ne s’est jamais détaché de notre foi ».

Goiswinthe or Goswinthe or Gonsuinthe (c.530–589) is [sic] a Visigoth queen of Spain of the second half of the sixth century.

The mother of Brunehilde is reputed to have been powerful, energetic and determined, as well as a fervent Arian.

After the death of King Athanagild, her first husband, she married his brother and likely successor Leovigild, so as to remain queen.

Having atempted to reverse [depose?] his/her son Recarede when he brought all of Spain to Catholicism, she was put to death by hanging, according to Maximus of Saragossa.

Gregory of Tours evokes her in Book V of his Histories: "In that year there was in Spain a great persecution of Christians; several were sent in exile, deprived of their property, starved, imprisoned, beaten with sticks and put to death by various tortures. These crimes were directed especially by Gonsuinthe (mother of Brunehault), whom the king Leovigild had married after the death fo Athanagild. But divine vengeance, on those who had inflicted these humiliations on the servants of God, was made manifest to the eyes of all the peoples; for a white cloud spread over one of Gonsuinthe's eyes, and deprived her eyelids of the light which her spirit lacked..."

In the same book, Gregory accuses her of having killed her granddaughter Ingonde (daughter of king Sigebert) after trying to convert her to Arianism: "Ingonde, daughter of king Sigebert, had been brought to Spain with a large entourage[?], and received very joyfully by her grandmother Gonsuinthe. But the latter did not long tolerate her remaining Catholic, and began by sweet words to try to persuade her to be baptized in the Arian church; but she, refusing with masculine courage, began to say: It is enough for me to have been once washed of original sin by a salutary[?] baptism, and to have confessed the holy Trinity, equal to a single God. I declare that I so believe with all my heart, and I will never renounce my faith. At these words, Gonsuinthe, enflamed by a furious anger, took the girl by the hair, threw her to the ground, trampled her at length under her feet, and, covered with blood, ordered that she be stripped [skinned?] and plunged into the pool; but many assure that her spirit was never detached from our faith."

—Tamfang (talk) 20:26, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Some additional comments.

"Gonsuinthe is [sic] a Visigoth queen of Spain" : The French tense is the historical present. English translation: was?

renverser son fils: "to overthrow, to depose her son"

avec un grand appareil = en grande pompe: "with great pomp" or "with magnificence"

baptême salutaire = baptême pour le salut de son âme: "baptism for the salvation of her soul" (can't find an English adjective)

dépouillée = I think: dépouillée de ses vêtements et de ses bijoux: "stripped", (not écorchée:"skinned") but I am not sure.

— AldoSyrt (talk) 08:31, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah, somehow I didn't notice that it's all in present tense – partly because a lot of it is passive, and (at least in Latin) a past participle takes a present auxiliary. —Tamfang (talk) 20:21, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Athanagild

Athanagild est un roi wisigoth d'Hispanie de l'an 554 à sa mort, en 567. Élu roi par ses partisans contre le roi Agila Ier, il obtient l'appui des Byzantins qui lui livrent des soldats, et monte sur le trône après l'assassinat d'Agila à Mérida.

Afin de s'assurer l'alliance des Francs, il marie sa fille Brunehilde au roi mérovingien Sigebert, roi d'Austrasie, et une autre de ses filles, Galswinthe, à Chilpéric, roi mérovingien de Neustrie.

Pour des raisons stratégiques, il installe la cour royale wisigothique à Tolède, forteresse naturelle située au centre de la péninsule Ibérique.

Il avait épousé la princesse wisigothe Goïswinthe, fille du roi Amalaric, le dernier des rois goths appartenant à la dynastie sacrée des Balthes, issue du dieu Gaut.

Athanagild is [sic] a Visigoth king of Spain from 554 until his death in 567. Elected king by his partisans against king Agila I, he obtained the support of the Byzantines who sent him soldiers, and mounted the throne after the assassination of Agila at Mérida.

To assure the alliance of the Franks, he married his daughter Brunehilde to Sigebert, the Merovingian king of Austrasia, and another daughter Galswinthe to Chilperic, the Merovingian king of Neustria.

For strategic reasons, he established the Visigothic royal court at Toledo, a natural fortress situated in the middle of the Iberian peninsula.

He had married the Visigothic princess Goiswinthe, daughter of king Amalric, the last of the Gothic kings belonging to the sacred dynasty of Balthes, descended from the god Gaut.

—Tamfang (talk) 20:10, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Leovigild

El regnat de Leovigild és conegut mitjançant la Crònica escrita per Joan de Biclar, got catòlic de Scallabis (Santarem), fundador del Monestir de Biclarum, probablement el de Vallclara a Catalunya, i que més tard va ser Bisbe de Gerunda.

Se sap que Leovigild estava casat (es discuteix si la seva dona Teodosia era romana o goda) i havia tingut dos fills: Hermenegild i Recared. En ser associat al tron pel seu germà ver el 569 va casar en segones noces amb Gosuinda, vídua del rei Atanagild, amb la qual no va tenir fills.

Reccared I's wife

• Latin: Rexit Hispaniam recte, et in pace. In matrimonium primo Baudam duxit, postea Chlodosvindam Sigiberti Austrasiensis filiam. 21 Decembris 601 in Toleto Recaredus mortuus est, et Liuva II filius regem est coronatus.

• Italian: Spinto dalle sua parentela coi merovingi, Recaredo inviò delle ambasciate a suo nipote (figlio di Brunilde, sua cugina e nello stesso tempo sorellastra) Childeberto II ed al di lui zio Gontrano, re franco dei Burgundi per proporre la pace e una alleanza a scopo difensivo, ma Gontrano rifiutò la proposta.

• Galician: Casou por dúas veces: a súa primeira esposa chamábase Bauda (tamén aparece en escritos como Baddo) e a súa segunda esposa foi Clodosvinda, filla de Sixeberto I rei de Austrasia, con quen tivo ao futuro rei visigodo Suintila.

• Spanish: Casó por dos veces: su primera esposa se llamaba Bauda (también aparece en escritos como Baddo) y su segunda esposa fue Clodosvinda, hija de Sigeberto I rey de Austrasia, con quien tuvo al futuro rey visigodo Suintila.

• German: Leovigild hatte Rekkared mit Riguntha, einer Tochter König Chilperichs I. von Neustrien verlobt, doch kam die Ehe nicht zustande. Als König war Rekkared mit Baddo verheiratet, von der nichts Näheres bekannt ist; die Ehe wurde 589 geschlossen, nachdem ein weiteres fränkisches Heiratsprojekt (mit einer Tochter König Sigiberts I. von Austrasien) gescheitert war. Rekkareds Sohn und Nachfolger Liuva II. stammte aber nicht aus dieser Ehe, sondern wurde schon 583/584 als uneheliches Kind geboren; seine Mutter war niedriger Herkunft.

The Latin says "He ruled Spain by right, and peacefully. He married firstly Bauda, and afterwards Chlodosvinda, daughter of Sigibert of Austrasia. Recared died in Toledo on December 21, 601, and his son Liuva II was crowned king." Adam Bishop (talk) 03:56, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

German/ Liuva II

Liuva II. (* 583/584, † Juni/Juli 603) war von Dezember 601 bis Juni/Juli 603[1] König der Westgoten.

Liuva war der Sohn und Nachfolger des Königs Rekkared I. Ob er von seinem Vater zum Mitregenten gemacht oder zum Nachfolger designiert worden war und ob eine Wahl stattfand, ist unbekannt. Aus dem Bericht des Geschichtsschreibers Isidor von Sevilla, der Liuva rühmt, geht hervor, dass Liuva bei seiner Thronbesteigung achtzehn Jahre alt war.[2] Er war ein uneheliches Kind, seine Mutter war niedriger Herkunft. Seine kurze Regierungszeit von anderthalb Jahren war ohne bedeutende Vorkommnisse. Liuva wurde das Opfer einer Verschwörung Witterichs, der sein Nachfolger wurde. Bald nach dem Umsturz ließ Witterich seinem Vorgänger die rechte Hand abhauen, um ihn herrschaftsunfähig zu machen; ob Liuva an der Verletzung starb oder erst später auf Befehl Witterichs ermordet wurde, ist unklar.[3] Mit Liuvas Tod endete die von König Leovigild gegründete Dynastie.

I'm not sure what you're doing (or who you are - Queen Elizabeth's Little Spy, I presume?), but it seems like it might be a valuable investment of your time to learn these languages on your own. I know that takes a lot of time, but in the end, it reduces the amount of time and effort you need to have this stuff translated. (Especially if it's just for this kind of stuff - it's not like this is a weighty novel.) Adam Bishop (talk) 03:56, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Try contacting a couple of people here [1] You click on the language code and it'll get you to pages listing users registered as speaking the language you have selected. Scroll to the bottom of the page and click (next200) if the selection you are looking for isn't on the page you're looking at. You could also enter a request for translation at Wikipedia:Translation; or ask one of the people listed here [2] to check your own translation. 71.236.26.74 (talk) 05:54, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

"Liuva II (born 583/584, died June/July 603) was king of the Visigoths from December 601 to June/July 603.

"Liuva was the son and successor of King Reccared I. It is unknown whether his father made him co-regent or designated him successor and whether there was an election. The historian Isidore of Seville, who praises Liuva, reports that Liuva was eighteen years old when he ascended the throne. He was an illegitimate child whose mother was a commoner. His short reign of a year and a half was without notable events. Liuva was the victim of a conspiracy of Witteric, who became his successor. Shortly after the coup, Witteric had his predecessor's right hand cut off to make him incapable of ruling; it is unclear whether Liuva died of this injury or was later murdered on Witteric's orders. Liuva's death marked the end of the dynasty founded by King Liuvigild."

This account differs slightly from English Wikipedia's, which says that Witteric definitely had Liuva executed sometime after having his hand cut off. +Angr 06:09, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Sp. > Eng. "disco de pizarra"

How do you call it?--Quest09 (talk) 18:30, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Pre-vinyl records, as described in Gramophone_record#78_rpm_materials. --NorwegianBlue ^talk 19:03, 20 July 2009 (UTC)