Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 December 17
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December 17
[edit]Prince Edward County High School
[edit]Our article on Prince Edward County High School says it was famous for being the school formerly known as Moton High School, but that school in question is a famous national historic landmark known as Robert Russa Moton Museum. I can’t figure out if these are erroneous edits, vandalism, or something altogether different. If anyone has any expertise with the history of segregation or the state of Virginia, that would be appreciated. Viriditas (talk) 01:36, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
- The first source at Robert Russa Moton Museum gives the address "Intersection of South Main & Griffin Blvd." and Farmville Elementary School as an alternative name, while the only one and the archived external link at Prince Edward County High School [1][2] give "35 Eagle Dr." as an address. Judging by online maps the two locations seem to be distict. Prince_Edward_County,_Virginia#Education states the elementary, middle and high schools are at the same location, apparently without source. There seems to be room for some distinction between being the same location and/or the same institution and some possible homonymity, but the Prince Edward County High School article could surely benefit from more/better sources. 176.247.162.178 (talk) 03:29, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you. The only thing I can come up with is that Moton was closed for a while, I think, at the height of the desegregation effort, and I recall reading that a new school was opened to take its place years later, I think. Still, that wouldn’t make the newer school famous for being Moton, so something doesn’t add up. I wonder if it’s all just a misunderstanding by the editor who added it. Viriditas (talk) 09:06, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
- Do we mean the school as in the educational institution or the school as the building? I think we're running into a George Washington's axe problem here. Likely what happened is that the school had changed names at one point, either before or after moving locations, but there's a continuity between the Moton and Prince Edward County High School, such that one evolved into the other, even if the original building is currently in use for another purpose. --Jayron32 11:56, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
- There was a hiatus from 1959 to 1964, when all public schools in Prince Edward County were closed.[3][4] The original Moton High School was built in 1939, but a new and improved Moton High School for blacks was constructed in 1955.[5] The main claim to continuity, if one may call it that, between the segregated Moton High School closed in 1959 and the (legally) integrated Prince Edward High School opened in 1964 in the same location, may be that they shared this location. It is not clear to me from the sources whether the "former Moton High School", now the Robert Russa Moton Museum, is the 1939 building or the 1955 building, but I suspect it is the former, the site of the 1951 student walkout.[6]
To obtain certainty, I suggest contacting info@motonmuseum.org .--Lambiam 16:53, 17 December 2021 (UTC) - This source confirms it is the old 1939 building. --Lambiam 16:59, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
- There was a hiatus from 1959 to 1964, when all public schools in Prince Edward County were closed.[3][4] The original Moton High School was built in 1939, but a new and improved Moton High School for blacks was constructed in 1955.[5] The main claim to continuity, if one may call it that, between the segregated Moton High School closed in 1959 and the (legally) integrated Prince Edward High School opened in 1964 in the same location, may be that they shared this location. It is not clear to me from the sources whether the "former Moton High School", now the Robert Russa Moton Museum, is the 1939 building or the 1955 building, but I suspect it is the former, the site of the 1951 student walkout.[6]
- Do we mean the school as in the educational institution or the school as the building? I think we're running into a George Washington's axe problem here. Likely what happened is that the school had changed names at one point, either before or after moving locations, but there's a continuity between the Moton and Prince Edward County High School, such that one evolved into the other, even if the original building is currently in use for another purpose. --Jayron32 11:56, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you. The only thing I can come up with is that Moton was closed for a while, I think, at the height of the desegregation effort, and I recall reading that a new school was opened to take its place years later, I think. Still, that wouldn’t make the newer school famous for being Moton, so something doesn’t add up. I wonder if it’s all just a misunderstanding by the editor who added it. Viriditas (talk) 09:06, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
Edward Garland
[edit]In Hakluyt's Voyages there is a letter form a certain Edward Garland to John Dee in which Garland, on behalf of Feodor I of Russia invites John Dee to visit Moscow. I need help in finding any information about Garland. I am trying to create WD items for persons described in old Russian Encyclopedia and Garland is one of the very few remaining Englishmen without WD item. The article in Russian encyclopedia does not have any information besides what is in Haklyut. Thank you, Henry Merrivale (talk) 06:57, 17 December 2021 (UTC).
- The thesis "The Alchemical Patronage of Sir William Cecil, Lord Burghley" mentions "English merchants Edward and Francis Garland". An article in something called the Journal of the Western Mystery Tradition titled "Francis Garland, William Shakespeare, and John Dee’s Green Language" talks about the brothers and what little there is known about them (plus one or two more brothers). It includes the claim that Francis was "an espy upon us from the Lord Treasurer of England" (a quote that is also in the thesis) and that "It is not hard to deduce that 'Garland' must not be these men’s real surname." Clarityfiend (talk) 07:50, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
- Reading further in the journal article, I see the author speculates that Francis Garland might be the Bard. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:56, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
- Down another, similar rabbit hole, we have the Shakespeare Matters article "Shakespeare and the Occult: A Path to Edward de Vere", which speculates that Francis, Edward and Robert Garland were in fact Francis Bacon, Edward de Vere and perhaps Robert Dudley. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:13, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks a lot! Looks like I opened a can of worms. Now I am not even sure that invitation from the czar existed at all. Cheers, Henry Merrivale (talk) 08:07, 22 December 2021 (UTC).