Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2012 March 5

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March 5

Rock star whims

Why Hollywood and rock stars tend to have weird whims? example. Is it because people get more pedantic when they realize they can get away with wathever they ask? Is it a marketing strategy? Is it to appear with a extravagance halo? (as an aside note, I'm a bit surprised there is no whim (psychology) article)--85.55.220.40 (talk) 00:36, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

One theory I heard once is that it's actually a way of measuring the amount of detail that the people providing the amenities put into their job. I.e., if they M&Ms have been purged of the yellow ones, then you can be sure that the sheets are being changed and the bathrooms kept clean, etc. Evanh2008 (talk) (contribs) 03:18, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Not necessarily, if they're spending all their time searching the M&Ms. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:15, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Confirmed by David Lee Roth in his autobiography (Snopes article). -- BenRG (talk) 06:53, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I'd say it's their way of showing they are the boss. While this can happen with anyone rich and/or famous, it's probably more common in those who achieve fame and fortune early, without learning to be humble first. Rock/pop/rap stars, sports stars, and actors can fall into this category. But then again, Donald Trump seems to have managed to become quite a jerk, even though he inherited his money and/or made his money in real estate. StuRat (talk) 03:47, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Richard Stallman of free software fame has some pretty specific instructions for people who want to invite him to speak, see here. In some cases famous people clearly do it just because they can get away with it (the Bob Hope impersonators and all that), but on the other hand, life on the road is tiresome. People have drunk themselves to death staving off the homesickness. And it's no fun having to tell kind strangers that their thoughtful attempts at making you comfortable are actually making you uncomfortable, when instead of a five-star hotel all you want is to sleep on someone's couch or instead of champagne you just want Haribo brand gummi bears. Actually, now that I mentioned that, particular brands of candy seem to figure pretty often on these lists - comfort snacks, obviously.--Rallette (talk) 07:47, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

What do you expect? Picture this scenario. A rather ordinary-looking guy with a modicum of talent as a singer, drummer, guitarist, whatever, finds himself a clever manager who lands him a record contract. He gets lucky and he/his band sell lots and lots of records. The power trip naturally comes as a resuly of people constantly kissing his ass, groupies kissing other parts of his anatomy, kids telling him they have all his records, journalists asking him his opinion on world affairs, even if he has never opened a book in his life...obviously at some stage he's going to believe he's a modern King Louis XIV.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:40, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Stallman's demands, by the way, are so lovably and understandably sincere and specific. He's not particularly demanding, but he's very exacting. 68.190.231.128 (talk) 20:13, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Most of the requests on those lists tend to be more or less reasonable. The exceptions are often understandable. Mary J. Blige wants a brand-new toilet seat in her dressing room. Heck, why not? If I was a pop star, why not take advantage of the fact to ensure I can sit on a toilet seat that's never been infected with germs? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:43, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

A truly discerning person prefers used toilet seats for their residual warmth. Bus stop (talk) 03:15, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Of course someone who can demand a new toilet seat wherever they go can also demand a heated toilet seat.... Nil Einne (talk) 15:02, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

There's far more germs on a damn door knob than on most toilet seats. People fuss self-importantly about the most ridiculously trivial things, and ignore the elephants in the room. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 20:16, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Do rock stars ever demand elephants? AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:23, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Contemporary erotic painting

Hello, if anyone knowledgeable about this subject please reply. I want to know the name of notable painters associated with erotic painting in contemporary art (i.e. 1950s onwards). Some notable contemporary erotic painters I know are Cecily Brown and John Currin. Some other notable names (excluding pin-up artists and comic book artists) who's themes in painting include modern settings such as striper, nightclubs etc? --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 03:12, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Mel Ramos, John Kacere, Hilo Chen, Hubert De Lartigue, Jock Sturges, John De Andrea (sculptor). I found all of those names at this gallery's web site. We have an article on one of the owners of that gallery, Louis K. Meisel. Tom Wesselmann. Bus stop (talk) 03:45, 5 March 2012 (UTC) Bus stop (talk) 03:19, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

IIRC, some of Eric Fischl's stuff is quite racey. Alansplodge (talk) 11:25, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Balthus? Bus stop (talk) 11:37, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Beryl Cook? More comical than erotic, but certainly often set in strip clubs, nightclubs etc. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:41, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the links! --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 14:42, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

No one mentioned Jeff Koons' Made in Heaven series featuring his then wife Ilona Staller. Astronaut (talk) 17:18, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

What was the ideology of the Republican Party in the South after Reconstruction 1877-1928?

It seems like most histories of electoral politics in the South end the Republican narrative in 1877 with the end of Reconstruction and don't pick up again until 1928 when the Solid South began to crack. I was wondering what was the status of the Republican party between 1877-1928? I realize that the South was effectively 1-party during that period and that the Republicans were a hopeless minority. I was wondering if there was any organizational Republican structure in the South (especially the Deep South) at all during this time? Was the racial makeup all-white? What was the ideology of the Republican Party in the south and how did it differ with that in the North? Was the Southern Republican party to the left or right of the Northern Republicans and Democrats? --Gary123 (talk) 04:02, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

There's a lot of articles e.g. Scalawag and Carpetbagger with small bits of information on Republicans in the south. The Republicans had strong support in parts of the former Confederacy, e.g. in Appalachia where there were fewer former slave owners, but not so much in the Deep South. In Georgia the Georgia Republican Party briefly held power after the war, with the support of blacks and those from the mountainous north and west. In South Carolina the situation was somewhat similar, with Republicans holding power thanks to freed slaves and carpetbaggers; see South Carolina Republican Party. In the South, the Republicans were sometimes in alliance with the radical anti-corporate Populist Party (United States), particularly pre-1900 when the Democrats were more pro-business. It's a long period with complex issues; you could explore the articles on the individual states' Republican parties, though these are of varying quality. --Colapeninsula (talk) 11:49, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

During that time period, especially in the early part of it (say, last 3 decades of the 19th century), the Republican Party had almost no presence in the south. In many places, Democrats ran unopposed in local elections. During the latter half of the 19th century, the Republican Party, nationally, had two main sources of support: Large, corporate support from industrialists and abolitionists. Neither were very welcome in the south. The Solid South article sadly doesn't discuss the time period as much as it discusses the fall of the "Solid South", but basically the local Republican Party all but disappeared from the South (except for, as noted, some pockets in Appalachia) for many years. --Jayron32 23:17, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

During the the Nadir of American race relations, Southern Republicans often turned their back on blacks -- see Lily-White Movement. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:38, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

In my readings on McKinley and Hanna, I've learned that blacks were a large part of the Republican Party in the South. Even where they couldn't vote. There was considerable competition to be a delegate to the national convention, which was in the 19th century generally 2 delegates for each of a state's electoral votes, even though Republicans in the South rarely won them. The reason for this was, if you helped elect the winning candidate, you might get civil service patronage. You might want to review William McKinley#Civil rights and the sources supporting.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:43, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Also, it is not quite true that the Republicans won nothing in the South. They took a congressional seat or governor's mansion now and then, and even had some success in the early 1890s with fusion tickets with the Populists. Republicans won a handful of Southern seats, in an arc from Virginia to Texas, in 1894, though nothing in the Deep South.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:45, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

That "arc" you describe is basically Appalachia and the Ozarks, which was already noted as the one place that the Republican party survived in the South; Hillbilly politics always worked very differently than it did in the deep south, --Jayron32 20:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

The supplanting of the Republican Party in the South was, as I understand it, a slow process with many stops and starts. There was always a tension, similar to one that lasted into the 1970's, between Republicans who wanted to keep or restore their traditional alliance, sealed in a bloody conflict, with Afro-Americans (who still voted in the North as their votes were being taken away in the South) and those who saw a natural conservative affinity with the upper and middle classes of white Southern society. Among the books I've found useful in trying to understand the conundrum are Stanley P. Hirshson's Farewell to the Bloody Shirt: Northern Republicans and the Southern Negro, 1877-1893 (Indiana 1962), Dewey W. Grantham's The Democratic South (Norton 1965; a lecture series), George Brown Tindall's The Disruption of the Solid South (Norton 1972; a parallel lecture series focused mainly on the mid-20th century but with very useful insights on the 19th), Eric Foner's Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution, 1863-1877 (Harper 1988; a massive work whose last two chapters do pursue what happened after 1877) and C. Vann Woodward's The Strange Career of Jim Crow (Oxford 1955, 1957, 1965, 1974, a classic short work based on yet another lecture series). I've seen but never read another C. Vann Woodward standard classic, The Origins of the New South, 1877-1913, Volume 9 in Louisiana State University Press's History of the South (LSU, 1951, 1968, 1971). Some insight could also be gained by studying the post-Reconstruction careers of the first two black U.S. Senators (both Mississippi Republicans), Hiram R. Revels (1827-1901) and Blanche K. Bruce (1841-1898). There's also useful material in Kevin Phillips' The Emerging Republican Majority (Arlington House 1969, Doubleday 1970) and E.E. Schattschneider's The Semisovereign People: a realist's view of democracy in America (Holt, Rinehart & Winston, 1960, 1965 reprinted 1975 by Dryden Press). The latter points out that many Southerners still voted Republican in presidential elections (for example 37% of Georgia's vote went to McKinley in 1896; other statistics in Dave Leip's Atlas of U.S. Presidential Elections). The one concrete detail I remember about Southern Republican parties between Hayes and Nixon is that some of them had no interest in growing; the fewer members the less competition for local Federal jobs in (for example) the Post Office and customs whenever Northern Republicans succeeded in electing a GOP president, which they did for all but 16 years from 1860 to 1932. These small state parties still sent delegations to Republican National Conventions but could be easily influenced (in the manner of pocket boroughs in British parliaments) to support an establishment candidate, such as William Howard Taft in 1912. Their authenticity was also a question in the 1952 nomination battle between Robert Taft and Dwight D. Eisenhower. —— Shakescene (talk) 11:02, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

West-gate of Moria

Why does the inscription on the arch of the West-gate refer to Khazad-dûm as "Moria"? The inscription was written in the Second Age, but the city was only renamed "Moria" in the Third Age. Double sharp (talk) 09:37, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

An inconsistency or mistake on Tolkien's part, at least according to http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Doors_of_Durin Pfly (talk) 10:09, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Incident in early Islam

On the Entertainment desk there was a question about movies taking place during the First Fitna, which reminded me of a movie I was watching about an incident in the very early history of Islam, where a local Christian ruler attacked the Muslims, possibly after pretending to form an alliance with them first. It was while they were still in Arabia, so it wasn't a Byzantine or Abyssinian ruler. While I was watching the movie I remember looking up the details on Wikipedia, but this was about a year ago and I can't remember anything about it anymore. Was this actually an historical event or am I just misremembering everything? Adam Bishop (talk) 09:49, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

The only movie you may have seen 'about an incident in the very early history of Islam' is probably this film, but I have seen it many years ago and cannot remember its details. --Omidinist (talk) 17:12, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I have seen that, but this one was in Arabic (with badly translated subtitles). I was actually watching it on a Saudi Arabian satellite channel. Adam Bishop (talk) 23:32, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

"The cry was no surrender" - The Siege of Derry

Disclaimer: I have (to my knowledge) neither English nor Irish background. But I find the history intriguing anyways.

A few questions about the Siege which our article doesn't seem to answer:

1. Did King James ride up to Bishop's gate in person to ask the city to surrender? Was this common practice for His Majesty alone to personally take such an action? He's the king - how would he take this risk upon himself?! He was lucky the defenders didn't succeed in killing him when they fired at him!

2. The city's decision not to surrender was no doubt brave - but to what end? Was it just patriotism (religious or secular)? Or were the inhabitants fearful of being dispossessed or slaughtered if they surrendered? Did King James have a reputation of cruelty towards those who surrendered to his forces?

3. If King James had prevailed, would it have likely made any difference to the ultimate outcome of the Williamite War in Ireland? (A "what if" question, I know). Our article says nothing about any effects of the failure of the Siege of Derry on the wider campaign.

4. Why didn't the Jacobite forces make greater efforts to secure (i.e. clog up) the river-head? The Royal Navy's tactic of forcing the way up-river would have been obvious, wouldn't it? Compare to the Defence of Fort McHenry, where the defenders clogged the river by sinking ships. Couldn't the Jacobite forces have placed better impediments to a naval force than a flimsy floating boom, easily dismantled by properly-equipped combat engineers? 203.214.66.250 (talk) 11:32, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

• Question 1: Yes, at least according to the rather florid Protestant accounts. Quoted from a speech to mark the 150th 138th anniversary in 1826: "...the Monarch... who came down attended by a numerous retinue, to the brook in this side of Foyle Hill, within 300 yards of Bishop's Gate. He thought his royal presence would awe the garrison, surrounded by monks and Jesuits; he thought that he had nothing to do but hold up the beads and the ropes and that Derry's gates would fly open at their touch... after giving an astounding shout of "No surrender!", the beads were answered with a shower of 18-pounders". It goes on to say that one of the King's aides-de-camp was killed by a shot from Roaring Meg. These were big (for the time) seige guns and hitting any particular person with one would have been a very lucky shot indeed. 300 yards was well outside of accurate musket range (only 50 to 75 yards).
• Question 2: see Bloody Assizes, Judge Jeffreys and Jack Ketch, all of which are still bywords in England for merciless judicial barbarity. See also Alice Lisle (aged 68), who was convicted of harbouring fugitives from the Battle of Sedgemoor and was sentenced to be burned alive (although this was commuted to beheading). Alansplodge (talk) 16:53, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
• Question 3: See What if James had won the seige? for an opinion by Richard Doherty.
• Question 4: The boom was constructed by a clever French naval officer called Bernard Desjean, Baron de Pointis. France led the world in the art of military engineering in the reign of Louis XIV (you may have heard of Vauban) and I expect that they trusted their expert. To be fair, it did prevent Percy Kirke's squadron from entering Derry and left it hanging around in Lough Foyle for more than a month. The assault itself wasn't easy; the Mountjoy bounced off the boom and ran aground; she only avoided capture because she was refloated by the recoil of her guns. It may also have crossed the Jacobite's minds that if they won, they would have needed the city to start trading again fairly quickly - not really possible if you've blocked the river without any means of unblocking it afterwards. Alansplodge (talk) 17:04, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I finally found a Jacobite narrative of the Seige of Derry. In respect of your Question 4:"the said town could not be relieved with provisions but by a straight branch of the sea, which was not deep enough to bear a middling vessel at the ebb of the tide. By this we see the taking of the town depended on the stopping of a single ship from coming up the river, which was an easy task; for the work would be infallibly done by sinking across the channel a gabbard or two, which medium was proposed to general Hamilton in process of the siege, when three ships came into the river with corn for the king's army. But the general answered he would not have that done, because it would afterwards spoil the commerce of Londonderry, and thereby lessen the royal revenue. It is said that he had for his prohibition the king's authority." (pp. 65-66)

Further on, the author examines the failure of the seige: "...it is not so easy to understand how came this ship to pass scot-free by so many batteries, and yet in four or five weeks before, three vessels attempting the same fact were repulsed. The king's soldiers answer that the gunners of the batteries, or some of them, were this morning, the thirty-first of July, drunk with brandy, which caused them to shoot at random." The author goes on to speculate that the brandy might have been paid for by the English. He continues: "In the interim those gunners lost Ireland through their neglect of duty... However, some will excuse them, and say that their guns were so small and so few that they could not sink a ship in the passage. This makes me reflect on the best advice that was given in this business, which was that a bark or two should be sunk in the channel, and this infallibly would have done the feat and saved the kingdom, for no carelessness or treachery could there have place." (p. 84) So there you have it. Alansplodge (talk) 11:45, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

(From the OP - different computer) Thanks so much for your well-researched answer. It is intriguing. King James (accompanied by his retinue of monks and Jesuits): "Open up these gates in the name of the Catholic version of Jesus!" I suspect that speech has some heavy propaganda-influence. Likewise the Jocabite idea of the Williamites secretly furnishing the gunners with brandy to sabotage them. Both could, of course, be true in theory. Thanks again. 203.45.95.236 (talk) 14:55, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

You're very welcome. I only had a sketchy view of events before I started digging around, so we've both learned something. I may revise the article at a later date. Of course, King James could have said anything, because nobody could have heard him 300 yards away, no matter how loud his voice was. I expect that he had a lacky to do the shouting for him. Alansplodge (talk) 19:10, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Numbering systems in the West?

Before the adoption of the Arabic numerals, what was the numbering system most commonly used in the West?200.119.78.251 (talk) 13:00, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Roman numerals. Adam Bishop (talk) 13:48, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

And the abacus was used to do calculations.
Sleigh (talk) 03:06, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Death penalty in Texas

How many innocents have been killed by the state of Texas? --Broadside Perceptor (talk) 16:23, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Before someone steps in to criticise the question, let me reformulate it for the OP's benefit. How many people have been executed in Texas for crimes which it has subsequently been proven they did not commit? --Viennese Waltz 16:33, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

We are not allowed to speculate, so our response will necessarily omit people who were innocent but whose innocence was never proven. Marco polo (talk) 16:35, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

A core problem in answering your question is that virtually all parties have a much stronger interest in overturning capital sentences prior to execution than afterwards. However, our wrongful execution article references this Executed but Possibly Innocent page from the Death Penalty Info Center, which lists 6 contemporary Texas executions. Likely no meaningful data exists for the historical record. We also have an article on capital punishment in Texas, and estimates could probably be made by projecting the rate of overturned convictions in recent years onto the number of executions in prior years (note that you can't as readily project onto contemporary executions as [some] improper convictions are already stripped out of that data set). — Lomn 16:35, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

List of exonerated death row inmates lists zero people anywhere in the US who were executed since 1970 and then later exonerated. Staecker (talk) 23:27, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

As far as people who we are 100% sure must be innocent of any crime, probably none. However, there are many for which we aren't 100% certain they were guilty of the crime for which they were executed (and many of these are a matter of degree, such as if they did commit the murder, but it wasn't premeditated). StuRat (talk) 00:59, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

As the Death Penalty Info Center site Lomn refers to says: "Courts do not generally entertain claims of innocence when the defendant is dead." So the non-exoneration of the executed in the USA is a matter of the logic of the law, not of the non-existence of innocent people executed.Cameron Todd Willingham was executed for murder in Texas, where the weight of subsequent expert opinion is that no murder was committed at all.John Z (talk) 02:48, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

More cautiously, one might characterize expert opinion as declining to find convincing evidence of arson. Subsequent investigators have said that the reasoning of the original investigator was, basically, nonsense. I have not, however, heard any of them say "if this had been arson, we would have seen such and such, and we didn't".

It is hard to imagine that Willingham could possibly be convicted in a trial informed by current expert opinion. That is not the same as to say he was innocent. Personally I can't come to a conclusion on that either way.

There is no individual case, at least in the post-Furman era, where a person was executed by Texas and it subsequently became entirely clear that that person had been innocent. But there are enough cases where it seemed dubious that it seems almost a statistical certainty that some of them have been innocent. --Trovatore (talk) 02:58, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

"There's nothing to suggest to any reasonable arson investigator that this was an arson fire. It was just a fire." quoted in our article is quite strong. Would a cautious expert make a stronger negative statement about any fire? Being able to say "if this had been arson, we would have seen such and such, and we didn't" is an impossibly hard standard to meet. John Z (talk) 05:53, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

While the arson may not have been as was presented in the trial, Willingham's bizarre behavior, like trying to save his car while his kids were burning to death, makes it hard for me to imagine him to be innocent. However, others with similar bizarre behaviors, like Casey Anthony, who felt the need to duct tape her daughter's mouth and dump her in the woods, didn't seem to be enough to convict them of murder. When the direct evidence of murder is weak, juries seem divided on convicting based on behavior alone. StuRat (talk) 05:57, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

That's extremely weak evidence. The fact he may have been a disgusting person who didn't give a damn about his kids and perhaps was happy to see them die (I'm not saying this is the case, simply that it's a possibility if we accept what StuRat said as true) doesn't come close proving he murdered them in itself. Many people are happy Adolf Hitler died and wouldn't have helped him when he was dying, who weren't even born when he was alive. (I'm not saying the Adolf Hitler is the same as his kids, simply pointing out an obvious case when plenty of people wouldn't help a person dying yet clearly weren't involved in his death.) If the standard in Texas for a murder case with the death penalty is really so weak then it seems likely a lot of innocent people have been executed. Nil Einne (talk) 07:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I imagine the thought in the mind of the jurors was "I'm not positive he's guilty, but, even if he isn't, he still deserves to die for being a 'disgusting person who didn't give a damn about his kids and perhaps was happy to see them die' ". StuRat (talk) 07:27, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I know we all speculate a lot here, in general, but can you try to not do so when it's so blatant? Shadowjams (talk) 09:02, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. I would note that even if we accept the suggestion the jurors had resonable doubt but decided to ignore it because he 'deserves to die', this doesn't mean they would have decided to convinct without the arson evidence, a standard suggested earlier. In fact, while I'm sure some questionable cases could be found, the only other case presented by StuRat suggests perhaps juries don't infact generally convict people just because of dodgy behaviour. Nil Einne (talk) 13:39, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Jury nullification is when the jury agrees that the person is guilty, but declare them innocent anyway, perhaps because they consider the sentence to be too harsh for the crime. I wonder if there's a term for the reverse, when a jury agrees that the person is innocent, or at least doesn't agree that they are guilty, but still convicts, because they despise that person and think letting them go is too lenient. StuRat (talk) 00:10, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

As a post script, one salutary case in the UK that gave real impetus to the abolition movement, was the wrongful execution of Timothy Evans in 1950. He was hanged for the murder of his wife, on the evidence of his landlord, John Christie (murderer). Three years later, it was found that Christie had hidden the corpses of several other young women in his apartment, and he confessed to the murder of Mrs Evans. By then, Evans had been dead and buried for some time. Alansplodge (talk) 11:30, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Chester Bowles Asian Fellowship

Was the Chester Bowles Asian Fellowship which Gloria Steinen ws awarded associated with Chester Bowles, Former US Ambassador to India? Is there a list of other recipients? -- 16:34, 5 March 2012‎ 96.56.168.74

Painting by Milon

Hello,

I have a very large framed oil painting with the artist's name in the bottom left side as MILON in large green letters. It is approximately 35 to 40 years old, maybe older. It is in colors of reds and greens and of a potted plant, a bottle,(looks to be champagne), and a bowl of green apples (?). I have tried different sources for information on this artist and can't find anything. The Milon I did come up with was into glassworks. Does anyone on this site have any information on this artist? It's actually a pretty painting hanging in my living room. Thank you in advance for any assistance. L. Griffin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.217.6.134 (talk) 16:42, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

There is an artist Milon Mukherjee who signs his works as "Milon" - here, and some more information here, here and here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:06, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Sir Henry Arthur Blake

Was he generally known by his first or second name? Kittybrewster ☎ 17:30, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

In this NY Times article he is consistently referred to as Sir Henry Blake. Almost all other references agree, except this page from Stanford, which names him Sir (Henry} Arthur Blake. I believe this is an error, however. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 18:02, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Ditto here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:05, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

His London Times obituary has the title A Distiguished Irishman - Death of Sir Henry Blake MilborneOne (talk) 19:38, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Use of UK libraries restricted to local residents?

Am I able to use a public library in another area of the UK from which I don't pay council tax to? eg: a Liverpudlian travelling up and using Newcastle library etc?

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.10.244.252 (talk) 21:27, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Depends on local arrangements. You'll need a proof of address that you're from the qualifying area, whatever that is - generally a county, but with some exceptions (e.g. the "Libraries West" arrangement allows any resident of former-Avon, Wiltshire, & Somerset to use each others libraries). Obviously, this only covers getting a card, & borrowing things - if you're just talking about walking in and using the facilities, anyone can --Saalstin (talk) 21:38, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks. I was just wanting to visit, so that's that sorted. As a visitor, though, you're still allowed to photocopy books when there, correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.10.244.252 (talk) 21:48, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

This is OR from personal experience, but (at least in popular holiday locations) one can get a 'holiday membership' to a library, often on payment of a nominal fee - say £5. It generally allows borrowing of fewer books over a shorter period than regular membership, but it's worth asking about. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 23:33, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

People like teachers can sometimes get membership in the municipality where they teach, even if it's not where they live. HiLo48 (talk) 01:13, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I used an "away" Cornall library, was asked if I was a member of my local library, and on answering yes, was given free access to their internet facilities. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:28, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

City of Westminster library, which I use, allows anyone with proof of permanent address anywhere in the UK to join. If you are actually intending to use a non-local library, it is probably easiest just to call them or check on their webiste. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 16:49, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks all for the replies! I emailed the library in question and can become a member if I bring with me proof of ID and address. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.10.244.252 (talk) 14:02, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Looking for an ancient poem or song

In a documentary by Richard Miles he refers to (quote from memory, I'm certain there are many errors here) "a 4,000 years old poem... describing a good city: The stores are well provided/and the people bath to the holiday/ The old man are mighty in wisdom/ and the old women give good advice/ the young man are eager to fight/ and the young women eager to dance/ The children play with joy/ The people are happy." Any idea as to the source? If I remember the dating right, it must predate Home by more then a millennium. 109.64.24.206 (talk) 21:38, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

If it's really that old then it pretty much has to be either Egyptian or Mesopotamian. The Epic of Gilgamesh seems like the highest probability. Looie496 (talk) 23:25, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

In the introduction to Ancient Worlds, Miles says it's from the "Curse of Akkad."--Cam (talk) 05:18, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, but here [1] seems to be the entire (?) text, and no such description of the city. 79.183.18.214 (talk) 07:30, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Better to look at The Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature for example: Here's their translation. Compare the lines you remembered with: "She [i.e. Inana] endowed its old women with the gift of giving counsel, she endowed its old men with the gift of eloquence. She endowed its young women with the gift of entertaining, she endowed its young men with martial might, she endowed its little ones with joy. The nursemaids who cared for (some mss. have instead: of) the general's children played the aljarsur instruments. Inside the city tigi drums sounded; outside it, flutes and zamzam instruments. Its harbour where ships moored was full of joy. All foreign lands rested contentedly, and their people experienced happiness." ---Sluzzelin talk 09:32, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you all VERY much! 79.183.18.214 (talk) 10:59, 6 March 2012 (UTC)