Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2016 November 22
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November 22
[edit]Greece at the 1992 OG
[edit]Why in this article you put Greece won 2 Gold, 0 Silver and 0 Bronze medals, and in the official IOC site ([1]) they put 2 Gold, 0 Silver and 1 Bronze? Who is correct? And why the difference? Leonprimer (talk) 06:54, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- I suspect it's a mistake on the IOC site. At least, I can't find any mention of a 1992 Bronze, e.g. the source used in our article or [2]. It's possible this arises from disqualification/s of athletes ahead of some Greek athlete, but I can't see anyone that's close enough for this to be likely, or any mention of it. (Although searching is a bit difficult, not helped by Greece hosting in 2004.) As far as I can tell, the IOC site doesn't provide a simple way to check for Greek medal winners in 1992. Nil Einne (talk) 10:38, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- The official site mentions "Official report of the Games of the XXV Olympiad Barcelona 1992" at [3]. I couldn't download Vol. 5 with the results there but found a copy at http://www.barcelonaolimpica.cat/pdfs/bcn92_ang5.pdf. It says 2 gold, 0 silver, 0 bronze, like all other sources I can find. It doesn't rule out a later bronze awarded due to disqualifications but it sounds unlikely. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:25, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- The OP needs to look at all the 1992 results where a Greek finished in, say, fourth place, and see if anyone on the medals list was later disqualified. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:50, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- The only athlete stripped from a bronze in Barcelona, at the same time the only 1992 example on our list of stripped Olympic medals, was Ibragim Samadov in 82.5 kg weightlifiting (the same category where Greece (Pyrros Dimas) won one of its two gold medals). Following Bugs's suggestion, I checked whether perhaps 4th place went to a Greek weightlifter (the bronze actually wasn't re-awarded to anyone) but it didn't, it went to Jon Chol-ho from North Korea, and there were no other Greek weightlifters further down the ranking who competed in that category. To put all my rambling shorter: Still found no reason for the mistake. ---Sluzzelin talk 22:57, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- Yes I checked most of our articles. While some of them don't have enough info to know where the Greek competitors finished, I didn't come across any where they were fourth or IIRC even fifth. Weighlifting was one I made sure to check since it's one where post-competition drug detections are common but as you found, it seems unlikely any Greek competitor won a bronze medal there. (Although if it did go to anyone, the 5th place winner would be fairly likely.) I also checked the cycling competitor since cycling is another sport where there was a lot of drug controversy (although mostly outside the olympics) but while I didn't find the position of the Greek competitor (didn't look that hard), I found no evidence he was a medalist. Nil Einne (talk) 10:06, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
- Note though (not that you implied otherwise) that Samadov's disqualification was not based on doping, but on refusing the medal and flouncing off. He came in third, fair and square, but disqualified himself at the award ceremony. ---Sluzzelin talk 22:26, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
- this page from sports-reference.com is perhaps the most efficient starting point for a trawl. jnestorius(talk) 13:08, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
- Yes I checked most of our articles. While some of them don't have enough info to know where the Greek competitors finished, I didn't come across any where they were fourth or IIRC even fifth. Weighlifting was one I made sure to check since it's one where post-competition drug detections are common but as you found, it seems unlikely any Greek competitor won a bronze medal there. (Although if it did go to anyone, the 5th place winner would be fairly likely.) I also checked the cycling competitor since cycling is another sport where there was a lot of drug controversy (although mostly outside the olympics) but while I didn't find the position of the Greek competitor (didn't look that hard), I found no evidence he was a medalist. Nil Einne (talk) 10:06, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
- The only athlete stripped from a bronze in Barcelona, at the same time the only 1992 example on our list of stripped Olympic medals, was Ibragim Samadov in 82.5 kg weightlifiting (the same category where Greece (Pyrros Dimas) won one of its two gold medals). Following Bugs's suggestion, I checked whether perhaps 4th place went to a Greek weightlifter (the bronze actually wasn't re-awarded to anyone) but it didn't, it went to Jon Chol-ho from North Korea, and there were no other Greek weightlifters further down the ranking who competed in that category. To put all my rambling shorter: Still found no reason for the mistake. ---Sluzzelin talk 22:57, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- The OP needs to look at all the 1992 results where a Greek finished in, say, fourth place, and see if anyone on the medals list was later disqualified. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:50, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
- The Olympics website looks quite glitchy. One thing in particular that it doesn't seem to handle properly is athletes changing nationality. It shows the winner of 90kg weightlifting - Akakios Kakiasvilis/Kakhi Kakhiashvili - as Greek, when he was actually a Georgian competing in the ex-USSR Unified Team at the time, for instance, while Ilias Iliadis is marked as Georgian when he actually competes for Greece (and his medal count is clearly incorrect too). I wonder if there's a bronze medalist who didn't compete for Greece but has been accidentally categorized with them. I think the IOC data is just totally unreliable and badly processed - the fact that it's all locked up in annoying JavaScript tables doesn't help in finding the source of errors, either. Smurrayinchester 09:33, 24 November 2016 (UTC)