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January 22

Met Ring

In the Metropolitan Opera's most recent Ring cycle (starring Deborah Voigt as Brunnhilde and Bryn Terfel as Wotan), what was the document that Wotan spread on the stage during his final dialogue with Erda in Act 3 of Siegfried? To me, it looked suspiciously similar to a copy of the Declaration of Independence -- is my suspicion unfounded? 24.23.196.85 (talk) 06:36, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Some sources describe it as "a ten-foot-long parchment, with runes on it". That doesn't seem to fit the declaration of independence. Seems unlikely they would have used a copy of the DoI, given what follows: "He and Erda then walked over the parchment as though it were a rug, presumably to show contempt for the old order that is fading away." Ssscienccce (talk) 12:17, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why does Hollywood copy our films?

I'm from Japan and can't understand why Hollywood "Americanize" the Japanese horror films. Can't you put English subtitles to our films? Kotjap (talk) 13:56, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Some people (not me) prefer films without subtitles. Also some people would prefer to watch films set in their own country, with more recognizable people and settings. --Viennese Waltz 14:00, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't just Hollywood. The Spaghetti Westerns were Italian films which largely copied Japanese films (c.f. A Fistful of Dollars and Yojimbo). There's also probably lots of copying going on in Japan of American films. To be fair, there's copying in all directions by all people all the time. It isn't particularly the act of one country's film industry. --Jayron32 21:02, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Knock it off.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Subtitles don't work when the intended audience's literacy level is inadequate to keep up with the conversation. (And this applies in more places than just America.) HiLo48 (talk) 21:41, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

HiLo makes a good point. No country that speaks English can read subtitles. That also explains why they don't simply dub the films instead of completely remaking them with massive budgets. Thank you HiLo for your insight. --Onorem ♠Dil 02:30, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the literacy level of at least one of us is clearly inadequate. That certainly wasn't the point I was trying to make. It's OK, it must be me. I'll take all the blame. HiLo48 (talk) 02:34, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please do explain in more detail then. I'd love to hear more about your theory. --Onorem ♠Dil 02:38, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If we Yanks are so stupid, then how come we're the ones who make by far the most discoveries and inventions, and not you Aussies? Why is that, huh? You take your gratuitous anti-American trash-talk and SHOVE IT, right now! (Bet you don't even know what "gratuitous" means, do ya?) 24.23.196.85 (talk) 02:55, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Being more egregiously rude isn't the cure to someone else's rudeness, in any form. Please don't do this again. --Jayron32 03:21, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Tell that to HiLo -- he started this by talking bad about my country, with NO provocation WHATSOEVER! And this wasn't the first time he's done it, either -- he actually advocated a TRADE EMBARGO against the USA in order to BLACKMAIL our country into banning firearms against the will of the majority of our people! For God's sake, he ADMITS ON HIS OWN USER PAGE that his mission here is to fight AGAINST traditional American values! 24.23.196.85 (talk) 05:04, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Which still cannot be ameliorated by you going on tirades. --Jayron32 05:06, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If he is entitled to go on racist anti-American tirades without getting smacked down, I'm entitled as an American patriot to respond in kind! 24.23.196.85 (talk) 05:08, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How's that working for you? --Jayron32 05:10, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And BTW, I don't hate Aussies, but I DO hate ANYONE who hates America, ANYWHERE in the world! 24.23.196.85 (talk) 05:09, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In many countries, there's a difference between hate and taking the piss, an artform in which Australians excel, although we Brits like to think we're rather good at it too. Alansplodge (talk) 17:01, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

IP 24 is justified in his outrage. μηδείς (talk) 20:47, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That depends on whether or not his ends are themselves useful ends, and whether outrage is a useful means to achieve those ends. Neither has been shown to be true. --Jayron32 22:39, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If HiLo48 wants to wiki-define himself by his attitude to the USA and its citizens, I guess that's his right (pointless and childish and all as it seems to me). But his opinions and attitudes are nobody else's business, particularly not Americans', so the best plan is to remain utterly indifferent. If such a person gets up your nose, that says something about you as much as about them. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 22:53, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I said the outrage was justified, not the allcaps. There's something rather disturbing with the fact that admins here (and I am not trying to single out Jayron) allow an endless barrage of anti-americanism. And I am happy to see IP24 identifies it for what it is--scurrilous racism. We wouldn't tolerate such talk about Jews or gays or Chinese. Until the actual racism is met with administrative discipline in this case and in others such as at the ITN desk I will be entirely unsympathetic to complaints about people screaming in complaint. I have had my say, I don't want to disrupt this board, so I will make no more comments here on this subject. μηδείς (talk) 23:04, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. Instant bigotry. Amazing. Leads to total loss of reading ability here too apparently. I wasn't confining the literacy implications to the US. It happens in Australia too. Commercial TV here NEVER shows movies with subtitles. That's left to elitist outlets. Now, I know the bigots will never believe it, but I love America, I just hate the bigoted rednecks who damage its image with ignorance, religion fuelled bigotry, and pointless outrage. I didn't advocate a trade embargo on gun laws. I said that it had been suggested elsewhere, and wondered here if it could work. So, you want to condemn what I say? Fine, but limit it to what I actually do say. HiLo48 (talk) 23:38, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Last time I checked, citizenship of Australia or the USA equates to nationality, not "race". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:44, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

See, Bugs knows what he's talking about, and he's definitely American. HiLo48 (talk) 00:22, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

SBS-TV has been commercial for a number of years, and most of its movies and other programs are subtitled. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 23:46, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It has commercials, but it's not what I meant (and I'm sure knew I meant) by "commercial". Amd it's certainly elitist (apart from its soccer and ~~drug~~ cycling racing coverage). HiLo48 (talk) 00:19, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if by "elitist" you mean a channel that is not totally devoted to daily reruns of Adam Sandler movies and movies with "wedding" in their titles ~~(often the same thing)~~ and "reality" programs or shows about the amaaazing doings of Lara Bingle or Britt Edelsten - then sure, SBS is elitist. But it's just as much a commercial channel as 7, 9 and 10 are, however much you may want it not to be considered as such. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 00:42, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please name 2 Adam Sandler movies with "wedding" in their titles. --Onorem ♠Dil 03:02, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My mistake. There are so many "Wedding" movies they show, and so many Adam Sandler reruns, that the sole "Wedding" movie Sandler made has been sufficient for me to conflate the two sets. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 03:18, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ouch. I admit I'm a fan of most Adam Sandler movies...once or twice anyway. That said, I'm happy that I'm not restricted to the channel you were discussing here. That sounds painful. --Onorem ♠Dil 03:23, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's sadly all too true. What with Happy Gilmore, Billy Madison, The Wedding Singer and Deuce Bigalow being endlessly repeated, Sandler would get more exposure in movies on Australian commercial TV than just about any other actor. Not that I care. I watch TV only when there's something I actually want to see, and never because it's the least undesirable program on right now. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 06:59, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This too.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Your user page contains seven (7) mentions of the word "America" or "American", and no other country. Most of the mentions are somewhat negative. People might be forgiven for receiving a certain message from this. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 23:52, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. I'm sad that such a great country is being dragged backwards by some of its residents. HiLo48 (talk) 00:19, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I usually take snearing at America to be rooted in jealousy and envy. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:05, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, those who snear possibly are jealous. I don't snear. HiLo48 (talk) 00:19, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a good reason I shouldn't hat all this off-topic-ness? Evanh2008 ^{(talk|contribs)} 00:45, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No reason at all. It's way off topic. My comment that led to all this wasn't though. It was a serious contribution to the topic. And I reckon I had a right to defend myself. So just be careful how far back you go if you decide to hat stuff. HiLo48 (talk) 01:03, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I find watching a foreign language film with subtitles to be annoying. I have to spend most of my time reading, which means I miss most of the action. And, with fast dialogue, I can't keep up. I do, however, like to watch foreign language films both dubbed into English and with English subtitles, as, invariably, they seem to be two entirely different translations. I don't know why, but that always seems to be the case. StuRat (talk) 06:10, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Those first three sentences say exactly what I was referring to in the comment above that some here decided was anti-American. And I love Stu. HiLo48 (talk) 23:41, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We all love Stu, but if these statements have "exactly" the same meaning, then you're saying his literacy level is inadequate. I very much doubt Stu's literacy level is anything but 100%. He may have some issues with his visual acuity or whatever else that makes it hard to switch back and forth between images and subtitles and quickly refocus. That has zero to do with literacy, and I'm surprised a teacher would be getting this basic terminology confused. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 03:13, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Let me break down some of the reasons why reading subtitles can be painful:

1) They never seem to do them properly. If they were yellow text on a black background, that would be easy to read. Instead they are usually white on whatever background happens to be in the scene, even if it's white, too.

2) People can hear words faster than they can read them, especially when you have overlapping speech from several people talking at once.

3) My particular TV gets blurry towards the edges, where subtitles go. Yes, it's an old CRT.

4) Having to keep up with a broadcast where I can't pause is particularly annoying. Also, even if I can pause, if watching with others who know the language, they might find this annoying. StuRat (talk) 07:15, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As for having it reshot with American actors, that certainly helps me keep the characters straight. Dark- and light-skinned blond, redhead, brunette, and dark-haired characters of varying heights and hair textures are easier for me to keep track of than a bunch of short, straight, black-haired, Japanese actors. I've noticed that some Japanese movies, especially anime, give their Japanese characters different hair colors, perhaps to overcome this problem. StuRat (talk) 06:16, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hollywood remade other countries' films too. Point of No Return (from the French Nikita), Vanilla Sky (from the Spanish Abre los ojos), The Departed (from Hong Kong's Infernal Affairs), and Let Me In (from the Swedish film Let the Right One In), The Lake House (film) (from the Korean Il Mare), Three Men and a Baby (from the French Trois hommes et un couffin), Taxi (2004 film) (from the French Taxi (1998 film)), etc. And Japan remade Hollywood and other countries' films too. See ja:リメイク. Oda Mari (talk) 09:05, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Add The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo series. StuRat (talk) 18:25, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

They also remake British films, so please don't feel victimised. If it's any consolation, the remakes are almost invariably worse than the original in my humble opinion. Alansplodge (talk) 17:06, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to be the received wisdom, even amounting to an article of faith, that the original UK series of Queer as Folk was better than the US/Canadian series. Trouble is, not a single one of the people who've told me this ever saw the UK series, and it was never shown on TV here as far as I know, so how they ever got to hear about it (other than repeating what others told them, who were repeating what others told them, who were...) is a bit of a mystery. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 20:29, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry Jack, I've only seen the British version. It can imagine that it was toned-down for North American consumption, but that's just a guess. Alansplodge (talk) 01:01, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I saw this discussion a few days ago and wondered whether to get in to it. Hopefully I won't restart a debate but in terms of this whole subtitle debate it's perhaps worth considering the variant practices of Dubbing (filmmaking) vs Subtitle (captioning) across the world. As those who have downloaded stuff of questionable legality and sometimes had to decide whether to download something listed as coming from a non English country may know, in some countries with high literacy rates it's fairly common for non animated foreign language films and television broadcasts intended for adults to be subtitled. In others it's the norm for them to be dubbed. While the costs involved may play a part (and therefore how widely spoken the language involved), as our articles somewhat attest albeit without sources, the biggest factor is usually considered to be history. For a variety of reasons some sort of norm has developed and most people from these countries or regions expect that. I don't believe modern day English level (since a lot of what we're talking about is in English) plays that much of a part. E.g. Germany, Italy, France and Spain and a few others are dubbers; the Netherlands, Nordic countries, Portugal, Balkan countries and others are subtitlers. The later article also mentions how in some countries, it's common for same language subtitles to be shown and used by people who aren't deaf or hearing impaired for a variety of reasons. Nil Einne (talk) 12:09, 28 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hollywood is a business, interested in making a profit. Successful films will be copied and remade until they no longer bring in a return on investment. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery--which is why the whole world copies America. We are just great, to the point of driving some people apoplectic. μηδείς (talk) 20:46, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why is it this desk is so amenable to, if not obvious trolling, childish versions of nationalism? Saidoweizu is a Japanese remake of an American film, and it's hardly the only one. What if someone came on here and made a big deal about how Bollywood was stealing all the Hollywood musicals of the 50s. Would it receive the same reception? Shadowjams (talk) 19:20, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

NCIS Episode Title

I am desperately trying to find out the title of an NCIS episode that had Tony DiNozzo playing "air guitar" at the beginning of the show and Ziva looking at him funny then asking him what he was doing. At the end of this particular episode it shows her trying her luck at playing an "air guitar" when everyone else is gone for the day. I would greatly appreciate it if someone can tell/e-mail me the name of this particular episode. I want to DVR it but don't know which one it is and can't tell when it is coming up because I don't know the title. Surely someone knows or can find out this info please?????

I have e-mailed everyone/organization I can think of for this answer, even those Weekend Magazine people but never get a reply from anyone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.11.202.199 (talk) 14:04, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He participates in an online air guitar contest in the season 6 episode "Road Kill." That might be the one. --Onorem ♠Dil 14:18, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Road Kill was my wife's suggestion as well - though I'm not in a position to doublecheck. UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 20:53, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

NCIS (season 6)#ep123 ("Road Kill") says: "Tony engages in an on-line air guitar contest that Ziva finds childish, but she takes to heart Tony's words of having choices and the episode ends with Ziva playing air guitar." A Youtube search on road kill air guitar gave Ziva's ending air guitar scene as the first hit. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:52, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

BLP violation

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Is xxx gay?

Our article doesn't list him as gay but he's listed as gay on the Glee wiki and on Wiki answers. Are those reliable sources or not?Kotjap (talk) 19:17, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Other wikis generally are not reliable sources, for our purposes. But if they cite a source, we can look at that source and use it (if it confirms the statement). Do be mindful of WP:BLP, however. UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 20:54, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong pronoun. If a reliable source says that he confirms that he is gay, we could state it. We aren't in the business of outing people, or in passing along rumors that out people. --Jayron32 20:59, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]