This page is an archive and its contents should be preserved in their current form;
any comments regarding this page should be directed to Template talk:In the news. Thanks.
Cool. Haven't had any environment-related news as far as I can remember. Should the headline mention that the giant "iceberg" poses a serious risk to oil platforms in its drift path ? (from CBC article) Is this too speculative ? BTW, next time pls post on Portal: Current events first. It's a prerequisite. (I've done it this time.) Please see guidelines at WP:ITNMP. --PFHLai20:09, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That admin was wrong to say "There is nothing whatsoever in the article about this" - the article does cover the event, but rather confusingly the event happened in August 2005 and has only just been 'discovered'. It is also a rather slow event. The large (and large here means large!) bit of ice will drift around, freezing into the sea ice in winter, and (from one of the sources): "Prevailing winds could then send the ice island southwards, deep into the Beaufort Sea. "Over the next few years this ice island could drift into populated shipping routes," Ms. Weir said. "There's significant oil and gas development in this region as well, so we'll have to keep monitoring its location over the next few years."" I would support restoring this item, with the wording:
The global warming link may be more controversial. Leave that in the article itself. The point here really, is that the news is the discovery, not the break-up (which happened in August 2005). Carcharoth04:33, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's now nominated by another admin for DYK. (IMO, this qualify for both DYK & ITN, but should not be used by both.) We'll likely see this on MainPage in a few days, anyway. --PFHLai15:07, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Execution set for some time before 9 PM CST...(6 AM Baghdad time) -- just under 3 hours from now. Wouldn't it be good to post something like "Former Iraqi Dictator Saddam Hussein awaits execution for the killing of..." however many blah blah in whatever year etc. etc. Something like that?-Mientkiewicz550800:10, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Wikiarticles must be updated first, otherwise our MainPage would be a misrepresentation of our wikiarticles' content. --PFHLai16:41, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
27 December
Gerald Ford (pictured), the 38th President of the United States, dies on the 34th anniversary of Harry S. Truman's death. - User:Patricknoddy 8:54am December 27, 2006 (EST)
I really don't think his death on the anniversary of Truman's death is that notable. It's more of a trivia fact. -- 68.37.247.142 13:48, 27 December 2006 (UTC)Kicking22213:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC) (I wasn't signed in, for some reason.)[reply]
Should not be there. He was a) not in power at the time of his death, b) not really sudden or tragic (being 93, and having health problems for the pas 3 years, according to the article), or c) is not having, and will lnot have a major impact on world events. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.95.11.28 (talk) 03:19, 28 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]
IMO, the state funeral would qualify for (c). BTW, the criteria are currently being discussed on talk:ITN. The guidelines may be revamped. Former heads of state/govt may be included regardless (as long as their page is well updated). If anyone has any ideas how to make things work better, please join the discussion there. --PFHLai04:52, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Let's wait till the 2006 Hengchun earthquake article mentions more about the damage and casualties, etc. Just saying "News agencies have aired reports of collapsed houses, hotel guests being trapped in elevators, and telephone outages due to severed lines." doesn't cut it, IMO. -- PFHLai16:24, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Rather big news in cricket - for some reason the sport is over looked on Wikipedia considering its popularity in nations like India, Bangladesh and Pakistan (large population). The next closet person is still quite far back (Murali on 674).--HamedogTalk|@05:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That's true, but do we have an ITN when Tendulkar clocks 14k runs...15k runs.....and the same when Ponting starts hauling down all the Test batting runscoring charts? Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:15, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Not living in a serious cricketing country, it's hard for me to say whether this milestone merits ITN inclusion. The key question, I'd guess, is whether this a news story or just a sports story. If/when Barry Bonds breaks the career home run record, it will be on the front page of The New York Times. On the other hand, the above-mentioned LaDainian Tomlinson touchdown record was clearly of interest only to sports fans and therefore not really suited for ITN. If the cricket record is as big in cricket countries as Bonds' home run record would be (or Mark McGwire's single-season record was in 1998), it should be on ITN. Otherwise, no. -- Mwalcoff11:42, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Warne's 700 bigger than Bonds future record because of the popularity of cricket. Cricket is the most popular sport in Pakistan, India and Bangladesh (over 1 billion people in those three nations) while Baseball might not even be the most popular sport in the United States and/or Canada.216.232.146.8016:08, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Also, one other reason that Shane Warne should go up - he was voted one of five cricketers of the 20th century. The entry I proposed also gives information on his retirement from the sport as well. (I wrote the above comment when signed out)--HamedogTalk|@16:18, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think Warney was #4. Also, on the radio yesterday, Peter Roebuck sort rubbished cricket as a world-leading sport when he noted that Australia was really the only properly organised country in world cricket, pointing out the shambolic sports infrastructure in IND, PAK, SL, West Indies, RSA, etc....Roebuck said that cricket would evolve far more quickly with ruthless sporting countries like USA, RUS, GER, NED, CHN, JPN, KOR in there...currently you have quite a few of the top 10 cricketers blatantly overweight, eg, Sehwag, Warne, Inzy.... and athleticism is generally poor. Heck, the Olympic teams of all serious countries have alcohol bans on their athletes, but even the allegedly best-ever all-conquering Australian team drinks alcohol (and rather heavily too it seems) in the middle of competition. Andrew Symonds even turned up totally drunk once and only got a one-game suspension, when the countries listed above immediate expel Olympic athletes for any amount of consumption. The cricket commentators must be totally deluded about the standards in cricket as opposed to Olympics, when they say that Michael Clarke (cricketer) (one of best "athletes" in cricket by far..) would do well in the 100m athletics.... A 180cm short Anglo-Saxon fellow with a round convex stomach running against Asafa Powell....right..... Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:15, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
216.232, not everyone from India, Pakistan or Bangladesh likes cricket. Also, the combined population of those three countries is roughly 1.5 billion. Hamedog, we need someone who knows cricket (like Blnguyen) to evaluate this ITN candidate. Nishkid6401:31, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Actually warn broke the record about 2 years ago, early 2004 in Sri Lanka, both Warne and Muttiah Muralitharan passed the 519 wickets of Courtney Walsh - for the past two years these two have simply been extending their lead at the top of the tree. So this isn't a "new record", it is the case of the guy clocking up more milestones. I know that Michael Schumacher overtook Alain Prost's 51 GP wins in 2001, but I don't think we would go and put milestones up for MS's 60th, 70th, 80th and 90th GP wins. I do recall that Michael Schumacher and Ian Thorpe were put up when they retired, being the most decorated world chamipons in their respective sports, but thos sports were individual while cricket is not. So it sort of equates to whether we think that Ronaldo breaking the record for most world cup goals or Raul (was it him?) breaking the record for most goals in the UEFA Champions League - but not really because Warne has already gone past the record and is putting more and more markers on the road ahead - are we going to have an ITN for 700 wickets for Murali early next year, and then 800 in mid 2008 and 900 in late-2009? (Murali is 3-4 years younger than Warne) - also note that in the modern age there are many more events so the accumulation records will be broken again and again. eg, Don Bradman set a record of 6 centuries in a calendar year (in the 1930s when there were 5-7 matches a year) and in 2006, Mohammad Yousuf, playing 13-15 matches, made 7 centuries and also broke the record of most runs in a year (about 1700-1800)....The Yousuf record did not make ITN incidentally. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:02, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've been asked to weigh in on the candidature. Although the event is notable in the cricketing world, there are many such instances in sports which can also be included in the ITN. Secondly, any additional wicket Warne takes will still be a world record, and in all likelyhood, his record will be surpassed when he retires shortly. Let's keep cricketing events in ITN to just the breaking of core cricketing world records. (max runs/wickets - team/player) =Nichalp«Talk»=05:44, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really think this meets our criteria for adding a death to ITN. Brown is an expertise in his field and he hasn't been in the hospital for months, but his death still not especially tragic or unexpected. I do see quite a bit of international attention, as it's a top story of al-Jazeera and covered in the Jerusalem Post, among other places. But, I still don't think this qualifies. I'm a bit on the fence though, so if someone else adds it, I won't object. -- tariqabjotu13:58, 25 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I personally support this story's placement on the Main Page. Whether it actually meets the criteria for ITN is subject to debate, but I don't think anyone's hurt by placing this up there. The man was certainly a legend, and as Tariq stated, it would definitely be considered "international news". -- Kicking22217:39, 25 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder how his death isn't unexpected. Is that because he's old? I think he should be there, since he's one of the most well known and influential people in music. Iorek8522:59, 25 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
His death was not at all expected. He was only told he was sick yesterday. Hell, he had a New Years Eve show planned in NYC! I don't know who removed him, but I think he should be there. But, of course, that's just one man's opinion. -- Kicking22201:04, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
James Brown's death should absolutely be on ITN. The man's importance to American popular music, and African-American popular music in particular, can hardly be understated. He is at least as important as Paul McCartney, who certainly would be on ITN if he dropped dead tomorrow. -- Mwalcoff11:42, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Massive news really. For you Americans, cricket is big in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka England, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and the West Indies. Glenn McGrath is one of the best fast bowlers of all time and Shane Warne one of the best spin bowlers. Should go up.--HamedogTalk|@06:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
21 December
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows is officially the confirmed title of Harry Potter Book 7. It was revealed on J.K. Rowling's official website this morning.
Seconded. Pretty full slate at present, and looks pretty pathetic in terms of international significance compared to what we have up there at present. The Tom00:28, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I believe it's The Independent that will open tomorrow's newspaper with the story that bears are no longer hibernating as a result of global warming. There's no entry on Portal:Current events (yet?), there's no updated article on this, but would this news be significant enough to consider adding to ITN if and when the criteria are met? AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.23:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think it ought to be considered, certainly, but is this journalistic speculation or is there an article published in a reputable peer-reviewed science journal to back it up? I'd be reticent to see this be posted unless the claim has been published as specified. (Even preliminary findings by scientists - i.e. not yet published findings - shouldn't go up either). Mikker(...)00:00, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure whether it's speculation or not. I came across it during the "Tomorrow's papers" section of BBC Newsnight. We'll find out in about 8 hours time though. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.00:14, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, the article is online: [2]. I'm not that enthusiastic now: naturalists from Spain's La Fundación Oso Pardo (Brown Bear Foundation) say that bears have stopped hibernating in the mountains of northern Spain. This is based on an article in yesterday's El Pais: [3]. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.11:02, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Update: about 12 hours ago police in sussex arrested a second man (and are still holding the first) in connection with the murder of the five prostitutes, so this item needs updating (just changing "man" to "second man" would do it) fabiform19:44, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
A 37-year-old man from Trimley has been arrested in connection with the Ipswich serial killings: [4]. Since this topic is still listed on ITN, is this development notable enough to warrant an update to the entry? AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.10:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think this is significant enough. It might be the most prestigious award in football, but enough to warrant main page attention? I don't think so. But it's still more significant than a couple of murdered hoes in England. Also it need not be mentioned that it was his 100th game. I assume it was his 100th game for the Italian national team, or was it his 100th game in general. Thethinredline23:51, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
(third edit conflict) Please stop referring to that entry at every single new proposal. And please, do stop calling them hoes. You're not Snoop Dogg. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.23:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Notes: I'm not sure Time's person of the year is notable each year, but it is this time: it's a highly unusual choice and, besides, they praise Wikipedia! (here). Secondly, this is not the sort of "update" that requires a lengthy prose addition to the relevant article - its addition to the list and a link to the article in Time is sufficient IMO. Mikker(...)04:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be more supportive if sth actually happens, such as holding the election, rather than just having some politician talking. --PFHLai20:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Why haven't we mentioned the (alleged?) shooting between Hamas and Fatah, as Palestinian PM Ismail Haniya tried to cross the border between Egypt and the Gaza Strip? The tensions within Palestine are rapidly increasing. Surely we should be making mention of this. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.21:57, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's now 2006 Palestinian civil skirmishes after a few pagemoves. Not that stubby now, but referencing needs work. Anyway, does anyone want to draft a headline which includes a link to this updated article ? Is there a better page, such as the page on the new elections ? -- PFHLai22:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Japanese Diet passes a bill to upgrade and rename the Defense Agency as a ministry. Passer-by 06:23, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Could you elaborate a little bit and explain why this is major international news, please ? Not everyone (okay, not me, at least) is familiar with the Japanese administration. Thanks. --PFHLai18:36, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Any move to turn the self-defense forces into proper military units, or to turn the defense agency into a proper ministry, is sensitive and controversial in East and Southeast Asian international politics. Passer-by 21:47, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
We need an updated wikiarticle or two to document the name change and the resultant uproar in nearby countries. And external newslinks on Portal:Current events. I don't mind this on ITN but we need relevant contents to be in Wikipedia first. And I think the headline needs to be more self-explanatory to cater to users of English Wikipedia not from East and Southeast Asia. --PFHLai22:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
To elaborate on the significance of this move, as described by Passer-by: the policy of the Japanese government prior to and during WW2 was known as gunji taikoku, military might. Quintessential in this was a mighty ministry of defense. After 1945, Japan adopted the concepts of enjo taikoku (great aid power) and minsei taikoku (civilian power). They have defined the policies of the Japanese government to this day. Part of both concepts was the abolition of the ministry of defense, which became a government agency. A move back to a full ministry is seen by many countries (China and South Korea most prominently) as the return of the gunji taikoku, the fear that Japan will again become a military aggressor to Eastern Asia. This is highly likely to play a large part in the relations between the countries on the Pacific rim. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.01:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Nice explanation, Aecis. Thanks. Please add this to a relevant article (if you haven't done so already). The next challenge is to work this into a concise headline to explain the significance. It would be easy if protests are documented in some wikiarticle. Then we may use "The Japan Defense Agency is upgraded as a ministry in the Japanese government, sparking protests in Countries A, B & C." or sth like this. This way, we don't need to explain. But, if no one from East and Southeast Asia care enough about this, this name change should not be on ITN. --PFHLai14:34, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure whether this is too U.S.-centric or not, which is why I'm proposing it here instead of putting it on the page. The reason this might be of international interest is that if Sen. Johnson, a Democrat, dies or is forced to relinquish his seat, his replacement would be chosen by the Republican governor of South Dakota. If he chooses a Republican, that would tip the balance of control back to the Republicans, and I think that possibility may make the story of international interest. However, as someone once said, "I'm smelling a lot of 'if' coming off of this plan", so I open the floor to discussion. (I'm about to go on a wikibreak, so someone else will have to put the story up if people decide they want it.) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 15:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well I feel what this news event has that others don't is that this is an ongoing event. Based on something that is still up in the air, there can be huge repercussions. This unfortunate event can effectively cancel out one of the huge implications of this past November's elections. I think that Governor Rounds is to appoint a Republican, it can be a scandal comparable to the Corrupt Bargains of the 19th Century. I think that this is a developing story that can become the start of something huge but I think perhaps it's best to hold off for a short while. Stephen18:54, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that this would meet criterion C of the deaths criteria, the effect on current events. I also feel that it's best to wait for further developments: there's still a possibility that Johnson lives through this, which would mean that there's no news story to write about. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.18:58, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I would wait till a Republican successor is named, shifting the balance of power in the US Congress (if this actually happens as speculated.) IMO, Tim Johnson himself is not famous enough outside the US to get his obituary on ITN. --PFHLai22:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Definitely oppose this going up now, ITN is not for speculation of such relatively trivial things as death unless it's a head of state or the Pope. Oppose this being included should he die. Sen. Johnson is not particularly notable outside America and he one out of hundred Senators in a legislative body which is not even in session at the moment. Nor is it particularly notable if his death gives the Republican Party a majority in the Senate; legislative bodies change hands all the time, and unless it happens through an election of some sort i don't think it's notable, despite how much fuss it will cause, and feathers it will ruffle in Washington D.C. Also this would fail criteria 5c should the Senator die, as it does not affect international events in the slightest. If however there is a big scandal over the appointing of a Republican to fill his seat, complete with a blocking or opposing of his appointment of some sort, that might be notable because it is a first, or something. I don't know, that bridge can be crossed if it is ever gotten to. Thethinredline23:07, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it looks as if he may recover, so not putting it on the page today was the right call. However, I disagree with Thethinredline's statement that his death would not affect international events: even though the President has primary control of American foreign policy, a President whose party is a minority in both houses of Congress is much weaker than a President whose party controls the Senate. Whether Johnson lives or dies could have an effect, for example, on US funding of family planning programs in Africa. That said, upon reflection I agree that unless he does die it's probably not ITN material. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, but even then, his death wouldn't swing control of the Senate, it would be the appointment of a Republican replacement that would do that. Because without him Democrats still have a 50-49 majority. So if he does die, nothing happens to the Senate apart from losing a member. So if he is replaced we could have "The appointment of X to the United States Senate to fill the seat of the late Ted Johnson gives control to the Republican Party" or something like that.
Agreed. A murderer in my hometown was linked to the deaths of 12 prostitutes in 2004, and stories like that happen every ten years! (Prospect Avenue, John E. Robinson, Wayne Court). I don't recall seeing a story about that on the main page; why throw up one on five murders in the U.K.? --KHill-LTown01:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's too local IMO. Besides, 5 is not much of a body-count as far as serial-killers go. This guy first has to be a notable serial killer before it's ITN worthy - the mere fact that there is a serial killer in GB is hardly that newsworthy. Mikker(...)00:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I do kinda have to point out that if notability of serial killers is determined solely by body count, Jack the Ripper wouldn't have merited a place in the section, with only five victims to his name. GeeJo(t)⁄(c) • 01:15, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, I agree. Body count is only one factor - but I made separate points (1) he has a low body count, (2) he's not a notable serial killer (only partly because of 1). Mikker(...)01:37, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This is probably the biggest international news story in Australia right now, certainly bigger than most of the other events listed in the "In The News". It's probably been mentioned before, but if the cabbage poisoning incident in the US a few months ago was considered global enough for listing on the main page, then so should this.--Phil500 (Talk / Contribs) 02:19, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As I recall, the tainted veggie bit and 2 other items were posted (by me) with reluctance, and they were the best available news items after several consecutive days of peace and tranquility on Earth, keeping ITN unchanged for days. This is not the case right now. I'd suggest waiting. I hope we won't have to stick this in on, say, Sunday. We should be able to report on the discovery of St. Paul's tomb or the expansion of the International Space Station soon, anyway, if that's good (major) enough for ITN. -- PFHLai 05:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC) [On second thoughts, the current ISS expansion is not that 'major'. Never mind. --PFHLai05:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)][reply]
Thought I should add that I like the election bit a tad more because of its potential as a milestone event in the history of a new country if Transnistria somehow becomes a country who knows when. --PFHLai17:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So if something is on the Anglo-American news it's of international interest? Last time I checked there were 190 countries other than America and Britain. (And ABC and CBS are hardly "global"). Besides, you're making an ordinal statement, like this: the appointment of the new principal at my neighbourhood school is more ITN worthy than the what I ate for dinner. Now that's true but irrelevant - one is closer to the minimum requirements than the other, but neither passes. Transnistria's election may not be ITN worthy, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the notability of some random veggie making some random Americans sick. Mikker(...)01:27, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is certainly of international interest, even if it's not the biggest event currently on ITN (I don't think it's the most trivial either, however). I personally don't think it's a weaker item replacing a weak item (see Google News results from around the world). Thus, it has been added. For what it's worth, I spent so much time trying to word the item that I had not see PFHLai's post before adding it. I was unsure whether to mention that the victims were prostitutes, but I decided to add that since it is the common link, and thus the fact is not used to degrade the subjects. -- tariqabjotu23:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest, I'm a bit annoyed that this has been posted. Firstly, several people have expressed the opinion that this is too local for ITN and you've not really addressed these concerns (Google news searches news sources in English which are printed throughout the world - mainly through syndication. Hardly evidence that it's of global interest. Is this headline news in Russia? China? France? Germany? Brazil? Spain? Libya?). Secondly, this yet again confirms my view that there is sometimes distinct bias at ITN - if these murders had happened, say, in South Africa or Nepal, would it have been put on ITN? No, of course not. Yes, sometimes trivial international stories go up (Transnistria election etc.) but that's hardly a reason to put more trivial American and British stories up. Mikker(...)01:53, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think I have addressed the concerns of worldwide notability; even though some news organizations may just carry the story via syndication, the very inclusion indicates they believe the event is of importance to their readers. Also, note that several have endorsed adding this item. Regardless, I think your problem is not with the dynamics of Wikipedia, but the dynamics of the world. You may be right that a similar event in Africa or Central Asia may not receive as much international attention, but that's not Wikipedia's fault. -- tariqabjotu02:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm... maybe my bias is creeping in here (I identify with the 3rd world and I get pretty angry when we're treated unfairly) but I honestly can't see how this is ITN worthy. The problem, as I see it, is this: you are using a Google news search as evidence that this is a story of global interest but that is simply not sufficient. Firstly, the link you provided searched only English and Google news hardly includes a representative sample of worldwide news organisations. There are thousands of America- and Euro-centric English news websites that carry the story, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world cares. Perhaps they do, but I'm yet to see evidence of this. Honestly, 5 people being killed is not nearly as important as, say, 1,128 children being killed in South Africa last year. Yet this last story wouldn't have a snowball's chance of hell here... Mikker(...)03:17, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
When I look at Google news, I don't look at how many results appear, as oftentimes it could be tons of newspapers from one country or locality. Instead, I look at the diversity of places represented; with the story of the murders in England, there are several articles from around the world listed (including a non-syndicated (syndicated) article from South Africa). -- tariqabjotu03:26, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
SA is Anglophone and has close ties to Britain, so that hardly means much. (I, by the way, am rather interested in the story). In any case, you might have a point - I still just don't think it's worthy of ITN. But I've said what I wanted to say, if others don't agree with me then I'll drop it. Mikker(...)03:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Newspapers around the world have to be filled up with some news contents every day even when we have relative peace and tranquility on Earth. The best available news item may be this UK murder case. And sensationalism sells newspapers (and tabloids), so does a good story like a suspected serial killer on the loose. I think this is why this news got international exposure. Is this really significant news ? I don't think so. I don't even think we can say that all five murders were committed by the same person (/group of people). I am a little disappointed that the discovery of the dead bodies belonging to a few no-names made it to MainPage, but the discovery of a tomb belonging to a historical and biblical figure in Paul of Tarsus didn't get too much of an update into his article. -- PFHLai17:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm surprised that this was put up. It seems much too local and unnotable to me. Maybe other countries have reported on it, but I didn't very much about it on the Dutch news. In fact, it isn't even at the bottom of the NU.nl homepage, which is the most-visited news site of our country (and voted to be the best site of the year in the news category by a large margin). This news is also way out of place among Pinochet, the extinction of an important animal, and a genocide conviction. Let's just face it: these things happen. So incredibly often. Even if many agencies report this, it still isn't very notable. functionmsikma(user:UserPage, talk:TalkPage):Void13:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's been on the Dutch news (NOS and RTL), and it has received heavy coverage in Germany, France and Italy. These murders are not only covered in Anglophonic countries. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.13:54, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's been on the news, but there is a lot more on the news that is not worthy of being reported on. This particular event was not reported enough for me to believe that it is of any notability. functionmsikma(user:UserPage, talk:TalkPage):Void15:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
My reply was merely in response to your statement that "I didn't [see? hear?] very much about it on the Dutch news." It was reported on Dutch news. My reference to Anglophonic countries was in response to the above discussion. Whether it meets your criteria for notability or not is entirely up to you. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.18:58, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Did you even read my previous message? I said that A LOT of things make the Dutch news. Some news reports have one humorous topic per news report, like the prominent RTL 4. Just because it made the news doesn't mean it's notable. Tell me, please, how you can POSSIBLY BELIEVE that something as COMMON as this is notable? Pinochet dies only once. A genocide trial doesn't take place very often. But a murder investigation? Puh-lease. We've got millions of them every year. Serial killers? We've got those too. Surely, you can't count the amount of serial killers that are in US prison at the moment with 10 fingers. There is nothing special about this. Every now and then, things like this do get reported, but that doesn't make them anymore notable; usually, there's something slightly different about it that causes it to make the news. But you cannot, with common sense, acknowledge that this is what makes it a worldwide notable event. Do you follow ITN? Do you know what kind of stories appear on it? If so, then do you honestly believe that a semi-common murder investigation like this one should be up here among things such as the resignation of the UN secretary general? That's my question which I hope you'll answer: do you, with your common sense, really believe that this even fits in at all? functionmsikma(user:UserPage, talk:TalkPage):Void14:20, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Please calm down. Writing in caps lock doesn't make your arguments any stronger, and Wikipedia is not a chat room. Yes, simply receiving a large amount of media attention is enough to make something notable. Because there is a difference between notability and relevance. This case has received a large amount of attention, which automatically makes it notable. Whether the case warranted such attention does not matter. Children get murdered all the time, but still Marc Dutroux stands out in Belgium. People get kidnapped all the time, still Natalee Holloway stands out. Innocent people get killed all the time, still Amadou Diallo stands out. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.22:53, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm disturbed that some people this that this is of little importantance. Five murders by a single person in the space of a month is something that happens extremely infrequently in the UK. God what a world we live in if people elsewhere think it's routine. Jooler14:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Of course it's common. Open your eyes. 10,000 people get killed by handguns in the US every year. In the Netherlands, a country with a crime rate comparable to that of the UK, there are four murders every week. This event in the UK has absolutely no reason to be in this section, yet admins ignore this because of some reason. functionmsikma(user:UserPage, talk:TalkPage):Void15:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Apples and Oranges. Tell me about the last serial killer of five or more victims in Holland? Jooler
You know what's apples and oranges? A simple murder investigation (with no actual conclusion whatsoever; it simply states that AN INVESTIGATION is ongoing) being among the likes of Pinochet's death and a genocide conviction. Guys, take a good look. This is an investigation that's been started. What's the news here? Sure, it was reported on, but these sort of things normally don't reach ITN unless there is something more going on. Such as someone being arrested. Or someone being convicted. Or crucial evidence being found. There is nothing of importance going on. Furthermore, you should stop having your eyes closed and accept the fact that there are, in fact, many more serial killers around in this world. Many do more heinous crimes than this English fellow did. And it happens all the damn time, whether here in the western world or in South Africa. This is common. There is absolutely no reason to believe that it is not. functionmsikma(user:UserPage, talk:TalkPage):Void10:47, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Your comparison was, to use an English language idiom, comparing Apples and oranges). My eyes are far from closed, I've edited articles about murder, crime and punishment. It may be common place for people to go around killing large numbers of people in South Africa but it most certainly isn't in the UK. And that's the point that makes it newsworthy! The last serial killer who had as large or greater tally of victims (discounting spree killers like the Hungerford and Dunblane massacres) in the UK that I can think of was Harold Shipman a doctor who killed over 170 of his patients and who was single-handedly responsible for increasing the murder rate for one year by 20%. A very unusual case. Before that Fred West whose bodies lay hidden under the floorboards and in the garden for 20 years before discovery in 1994. The last similar serial killer case that I'm aware of was the Yorkshire Ripper 25-30 years ago. The key feature or event in this case that makes it internationally newsworthy is the large number of victims killed within the span of a month and the subsequent discovery of the bodies. It is current. If another body was found tomorrow, would it then warrant inclusion in your opinion? ?, Or only if the victim count increased to 10 or 20 or 50? Or are you saying only when someone was arrested? Any info on the last similar Dutch serial killer yet? Jooler18:18, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'd prefer to wait till it's confirmed that there is a serial killer before featuring this on MainPage, but I now support the inclusion of this murder case in ITN. The subject matter aside, the media has probably turned this case into an internationally notable news item. --PFHLai20:12, 16 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
So you agree that it's okay to put up an inconclusive story? Like I said, there's an investigation ongoing, but there is no other conclusion than that. Perhaps this should be a news item when someone gets caught or convicted, but even that's doubtful. Concerning your point that it's not common in the UK, I say that you're either pushing POV onto ITN by making the UK more important than other nations (we've had our share of terrible and internationally reported murders in the Netherlands which didn't make ITN) or you're simply ignoring the fact that the only thing different about this is the fact the police believe it's the work of a serial killer. But like already mentioned, this is not known yet, as the investigation is ongoing and nobody has even been arrested. There are plenty of murders in the UK, and although this is a bizarre one, it shouldn't be up here, at least until it gets some kind of conclusive end.
Also, you ignored my argument that this type of news does not fit in with the usual ITN entries, such as Kofi Annan's term ending and Pinochet dying. Do you even have any sort of defence against this argument? Because I find it pretty important. This seems like nothing but UK bias to me, since apparently a serial killer is important enough to be ranked among milestone internationally important events if he's from the UK. functionmsikma(user:UserPage, talk:TalkPage):Void10:05, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Msikma, I agree that this type of news does not fit in with the usual ITN entries. I now support the inclusion of this murder case in ITN as, IMO, the media has turned this case into an internationally notable news item. --PFHLai18:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
More reason to include this case: "The Association of Chief Police Officers say the number of officers deployed from forces outside Suffolk, under the control of the Police National Information and Co-ordination Centre, was the biggest ever for a murder inquiry. In total 36 forces have sent 412 detectives, uniformed officers and police staff."(BBC) This asserts notability. --PFHLai14:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well then include that kind of reasoning in the ITN entry!! This is what you need to assert notability. Just saying "an investigation has started" is not sufficient. But the police starting the biggest murder investigation ever is. Jeez. I support something as notable as the biggest inquiry the UK police has ever made, if the media report on it, but if this fact were not true or not known, then I wouldn't support it. And I don't think you would, either. Mentioning this kind of stuff pre-emptively could save us all a whole big load of time, folks. functionmsikma(user:UserPage, talk:TalkPage):Void12:55, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it wasn't the biggest ever UK murder inquiry yet at the time this got on MainPage.... and this point is still not mentioned in the article yet (I can't find it), so this can't be mentioned on ITN. (As I am not too familiar with the case, I'd rather not edit that article, apart from copyediting and adding templates, etc. Everyone is encouraged to add this point to the article. Thanks.) --PFHLai06:01, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps the article could be worked on somewhat, as currently it could be a bit confusing to folks unfamiliar with Hong Kong politics. Thanks.--Pharos00:32, 13 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I would suggest Image:Christer Fuglesang.jpgChrister Fuglesang is the better image to have. While the launch of the shuttle may be the main event, a shuttle launch is a shuttle launch. There's nothing particularly unique about the shuttle launch picture, a lot of people probably would have seen one before. On the other hand, a lot of people wouldn't have seen Christer Fuglesang and since we do mention him... Nil Einne21:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The ITN candidates do not really need to be signed; some people sign them, while others do not. Looking at the contributions of the person who added this, I believe the editor is familiar with signing comments, but just didn't think it was necessary here. -- tariqabjotu23:23, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Didn't we already mention him a while back? I remember because I'm the one who found and added the picture (which was never used on the main page :-P) Nil Einne21:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The women's tournament is 2+ weeks old, so I'll pass. Great photos and nice tables in the men's tournament's page, but it lacks descriptive prose on the games (Same problem with 2006 Davis Cup below) and much of the current text (on the tournament format) is in the future tense. So, I'll pass, too, for the time being. -- PFHLai08:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Fijian troops take over the headquarters of the armed police division, occupy the main police station in Suva, and surround a police academy in an escalation of the 2006 Fijian coup plot.
Former Chilean President Augusto Pinochet had suffered a heart attack and is in critical but stable condition in Santiago's Military Hospital.
Not sure his current health condition is notable enough for Wikipedia. I do believe that his death would meet the criteria for deaths on ITN though. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.16:28, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
From what I've heard in the Chilean press, his situation is life-threatening. Last rites had been administered by a Catholic priest, and he is also suffering from pulmonary edema. Dr. Juan Ignacio Vergara from the Military Hospital emphasized the potentially fatal situation the former president is in. The government spokesman, Ricardo Lagos (Jr), is already talking about whether Pinochet should be given a state funeral. Marmaduque17:08, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well Castro was/is the leader of Cuba for decades. Augusto Pinochet is a controversial figure and his death may affect world affairs sufficient to warrant inclusion in ITN but I'm skeptical if his current situation is enough. If it's true he's near death them IMHO we just wait. If he survives with no immediete changes then I doubt it will be sufficient enough on world affairs Nil Einne08:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
He wouldn't meet criteria A (in a high ranking office of power at the time of death) and B (a key figure in their field of expertise, and died unexpectedly or tragically), but he might meet criterion C (a major international impact that affects current events). Time will tell. AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.13:59, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, IMO, his dying while his trials are still on-going would meet criterion C, though it's not really that international. Pinochet is such a notable figure in history (My POV?) that I might be bold and post his death on ITN, anyway. --PFHLai18:36, 4 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure there's really an updated article for this, but shouldn't ITN pay attention to the highly controversial state visit of Pope Benedict XVI to Turkey? AecisDancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984.23:47, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Done. Aecis Dancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 21:48, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
