Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Elmore James discography/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:30, 4 May 2016 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Elmore James discography

Featured list candidates/Elmore James discography/archive1

Nominator(s): Ojorojo (talk) 15:29, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because it is an informative discography of one of the most important blues musicians of the mid-twentieth century. Several of Elmore James' recordings are regarded as blues classics and his influence continues to be heard in contemporary blues as well as rock. His discography covers all of his known released recordings and is extensively referenced with many inline citations and goes beyond WP:DISCOGSTYLE and most FL discographies.

Since its creation in November 2013, it has been stable with no tendentious editing, vandalism, edit wars, etc. Recently, I have checked all the citations and have updated the reference and table formats. The lead has been rewritten and referenced. I look forward to constructive comments/suggestions to make this a FL. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:29, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from jimknut

Resolved comments from Jimknut (talk) 17:16, 25 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

* ""TV Mama", for which he provided guitar, was a number six chart hit for Joe Turner (better known as Big Joe Turner) in 1964." — Why not just say: "… was a number six chart hit for Big Joe Turner in 1964."?

At the time, he was listed on the single and in the record charts as "Joe Turner" (I used this in the "Elmore James as an accompanist" section). However, this is probably unneeded detail for the lead, so I shortened it to the more well-known "Big Joe Turner". —Ojorojo (talk) 19:37, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"A second compilation album in 1960 by Fire Records featuring 1959–1960 Fire singles was planned, but was never issued." Is there a source for this? Jimknut (talk) 17:12, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Added. Thanks for your input. —Ojorojo (talk) 19:37, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support — Looks good. Jimknut (talk) 19:21, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Dan arndt

Resolved comments from Dan arndt _talk

*In the headings A-side/B-side would look better as a row under Title

Agree, done. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In the headings it should be Catalogue No. rather than no.

I tried it with just "Label". Would the rest really add much? —Ojorojo (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The heading should be Peak Chart Postion, with US as a row under it

Done. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The first single, "Dust My Broom" has (not on B-side), which appears like there is no B-Side - it would be better listing the B-Side as "Catfish Blues" with an annotation that this was performed by Bobo Thomas.

Added. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Similarly with "I Believe My Time Ain't Long" and "Knocking at Your Door" the B-side should be listed with annotation as to who it was preformed by.

Added. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Rather than 'A blank space denotes a release that did not chart.' it should be '"—" denotes releases that did not chart.'

Since the vast majority of the releases didn't chart, I tried to avoid a sea of "—"s. Does the new wording help? —Ojorojo (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It needs to be consistent with the wording of the other featured discography lists.

Added "—" and changed denotes. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:57, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Under compilation albums rather than 'Only one album by Elmore James appeared during his lifetime' it should be 'Only one album by Elmore James was released during his lifetime'.

Changed. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In the headings it should be Catalogue No. rather than no.

As above. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The heading should be Peak Chart Postion, with US as a row under it.

Done. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Posthumous releases should have a reference for each release verifying the release date

I added the sources to the Posthumous Single chart heading, similar to the first Singles chart. The rest already have inline cites. I can change if necessary. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In the headings A-side/B-side would look better as a row under Title

As above. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

On "It Hurts Me Too", the * next to 25 under chart position should be a footnote or annotation

Added. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:42, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"It Hurts Me Too" (1957 recording) / "Elmore's Contribution to Jazz" - the comment (1957 recording) should be an annotation.

Removed, note added at newer version. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:26, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Bobby's Rock" (new) / "Make My Dreams Come True" (re-release of Flair 1031 B-side) - doesn't require the inclusion of (new), unless there is an explained reason. Also (re-release of Flair 1031 B-side) should be an annotation not listed under the title.

Added. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:57, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Similarly for "Dust My Blues" (re-release of Flair 1074) / "Happy Home" (re-release of Flair 1069) - the details about the re-leases should be annotations not listed under title.

Added. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:57, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Similarly for the Posthumous Releases the description should just be the title of the release and any extra notes should be an annotation. I realize that may result in a long list of annotations - the only other alternative I can think of is to have an extra 'Notes' column on the tables. Need to check with other FL discographies to see how they handle this issue.

Added notes columns. I tried it with footnotes[2], but that resulted in more than 50 footnotes (now there are 3). (Most FL discographies focus heavily on worldwide sales/chart information, which is not applicable here). I think that about finishes it. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:26, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it looks much better, the comments in the notes column however all need to be referenced. If the information is there you could use the same references as the titles column.

Added. —Ojorojo (talk) 19:03, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Discogs is not considered to be necessarily a reliable reference (as it is able to be self-edited). Is there somewhere else that can provide the same information, that is a more reliable source?

I was only using the images at Discogs as sources. However, I changed to AllMusic and AV media notes. —Ojorojo (talk) 19:03, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The tables should have a title - ie 'List of singles, with selected chart positions', consistent with other FL discographies.

Added, although at first it seemed redundant, since it usually comes right after the section heading. —Ojorojo (talk) 19:03, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The compilation album table should have "—" denotes a release that did not chart - or alternatively drop the chart position column.

Added. —Ojorojo (talk) 19:03, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support all my comments have been addressed. Good luck with the nomination. Dan arndt (talk) 22:15, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

~~Comments by FrB.TG~~

Why is the number of compilation albums 8+ and not simply 8?

As noted in the "Selected compilation albums" section, there are numerous James compilations (well over 100, most of which are out of print). I've included the eight most notable, based on a RS. Does this need clarification? —Ojorojo (talk) 16:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I thought so. Probably add a footnote, adding that eight of his compilation albums are included in the list? FrB.TG (talk) 19:20, 19 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Added explanatory footnote. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:04, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Tables do not meet WP:ACCESS for row and col scopes (see MOS:DTT).

Added markup. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Is no image available on him?

Almost all James photos come from two sources: Jacques Demetre and George Adins. I haven't been able to determine that these or any others are in the public domain. The image in the Elmore James article is used under a "no free equivalent" claim (WP:FREER). Use in a discography would not meet the "Could the subject be adequately conveyed by properly sourced text without using the non-free content at all?" criterion. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As label is sortable, link all the entries under it or make it unsortable.

Linked all. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why are labels not linked under references?

Linked. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

~~Consider optionally reviewing a nomination of mine. FrB.TG (talk) 09:07, 17 April 2016 (UTC)~~[reply]

Support — FrB.TG (talk) 17:19, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - passed

Spotchecks: Checked 1, 15, 23 - clean
Formatting: The "1980 Hall of Fame Inductees: Elmore James" source link does not work for me; it looks like you were logged in to a site and did a search? Other than that it looks fine, though I note that "Whitburn 1998, pp. 19–461" is basically "the entire book", so if there's any way to make that more precise that'd be great.

The Blues Hall of Fame changes the links from time to time. I replaced it with a different source. I removed the Whitburn cite because the only entry in the column already has a cite. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:50, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If the link keeps changing, consider archiving it with web.archive.org or webcitation.org so that you can get a static record. --Pres N 15:01, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing: Not clear on how globaldogproductions.info or wangdangdula.com are RSs. Also, not sure such a source even exists, but I am a little concerned that the only "list of all Elmore James singles/albums" sources used are album liner notes; it just raises questions of whether you're missing a minor single or album and don't know it, though I guess that's me being pretty nitpicky. I wouldn't oppose over it. --Pres N 01:23, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the box set booklets were put together by well-known music researchers/writers and are quite detailed. They were given access to the master tapes, recording logs, etc. If they couldn't find it, I doubt it can be found. Discographies at AllMusic and images of releases at Discogs were also used. Cross-checking the information, I believe that this faithfully represents James' recorded output. There are over 100 James compilation albums and only the most current and notable are listed. I only know of one James biography and don't remember that the discography section was that useful (I don't have access to it now). Short of providing links to images of his singles, I don't think there are unused RS. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:50, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Three reviews of box sets by AllMusic confirm that these are comprehensive. Cub Koda writes, "These recordings [on the Capricorn box set] are the ones most commonly issued on James and have surfaced on so many different compilations—all with varying levels of sound quality—that it would be futile to list them all here. Fortunately, to make things easier we have this two-disc 50-song box set rounding up at least one extant take of everything Elmore recorded with Robinson at the helm."[3] Richie Unterberger noted, "this 71-track compilation [from Virigin/Flair] is the most thorough retrospective of that era likely to be produced. In addition to including songs that were not issued in any form until after his death (and sometimes long after his passing), there are multiple takes of specific tunes, alternates, false starts, studio chatter, ..."[4] Koda also writes, "Elmore James had recorded a session for Chess in 1953 before settling down with the Bihari Brothers and again in 1960, shortly before starting his final recordings for Bobby Robinson's Fire, Fury and Enjoy labels. This [Chess album] collects up all of them with the bonus addition ..."[5] —Ojorojo (talk) 19:50, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Ojorojo: Ok, satisfied on the comprehensive front. Only remaining concern is if globaldogproductions.info and wangdangdula.com are actually reliable sources; they both appear to be personal blogs. --Pres N 15:01, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'd prefer not to use these, but think Peter Hoppula (wangdangdula – unfortunate name) is acceptable. His discographies are cited in several publications: The Bob Dylan Encyclopedia notes "Sources: discographical detail from Peter Hoppula's Roy Gaines listing at the excellent www.wangdangdula.com seen online 20 Feb 2006";[6] and his catalogue listings are included as a footnote in an Enthomusicology PhD dissertation for UCLA;[7] and in Blues: A Regional Experience he is acknowledged under the list "We have also consulted many of the other standard references in the field. We have made sometimes copious use of works or comments by ... Pete Hoppula".[8] I also found a Hoppula source to replace globaldog for Enjoy Records.[9] These sources are used for re-release/reissue information and not James' original catalogue (that has proper RS) – they could all be removed without losing any unique recordings. Or, as noted above, many of the individual releases could be linked to images, which provide most of the information. —Ojorojo (talk) 16:57, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@PresN: I created an alternative discography by removing all the reissues and the need for the Hoppula source. This is a much better alternative to linking single images. —Ojorojo (talk) 19:52, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, if you've removed the globaldog source, I'm convinced on the use of the unfortunately named wangdangdula source. Passing this source review, and since it was the last thing remaining, promoting this list. --Pres N 19:59, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.