Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Discography of Sibelius symphony cycles/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 17 October 2021 (UTC) [1].[reply]
Discography of Sibelius symphony cycles (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
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- Nominator(s): Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 18:21, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Having checked the nominated list against the six FL criteria, I believe it's ready for FLC. As the main editor, I have sought to be neutral and comprehensive in my writing, and the list includes extensive citations. All recording dates, venues, and runtimes are sourced directly to the CD (or in the case of one or two entries, LP) liner notes, rather than third party websites such as musicbrainz.org, discogs.com, or musicweb-international.com. (I'd like to here acknowledge, and thank, a handful of users over at talkclassical.com, who generously provided me scans of liner notes in their personal collections... in particular, Kiki was extremely helpful.) Moreover, citation templates have been used. I have also made use of the work of Sibelius biographers and musicologists, especially in relating the importance of the Sibelius cycle and the historical play-by-play. Thank you, in advance, for your comments and for having taken the time to give the list a read through. Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 18:21, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comments Support from Tim riley
[edit]Resolved comments from Tim riley talk 13:34, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply] |
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Booking my place. Looks top class after first quick read-through. Comments after closer second perusal. Tim riley talk 22:50, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That seems like a longish list of quibbles, and so let me conclude by saying that this seems to me an impressive article, thoroughly researched and scrupulously cited. I look forward to supporting its elevation to FL. – Tim riley talk 09:46, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply] |
It seems to me that the only quibble left undealt with is the one about the LSO recording dates in 1932, a matter so minor as to be barely discernible with the naked eye. Do sort it out if you can, but I'm not delaying my support on that account. So, I'm adding my support for the elevation of this article to FL. It seems to me to meet all the criteria, and I found it a pleasure to read and to review. A first rate piece of work, in my view. Tim riley talk 13:34, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks, Tim. I have long admired your work on the English/British classical music scene; indeed, their quality is what encouraged me to, when I have time, work hard on the Sibelius/Finland classical articles. Glad you enjoyed this one and found it a good read. Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 18:30, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comments Support from ChrisTheDude
[edit]Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:52, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply] |
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- Works for me - support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:52, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- All column headers need colscopes (e.g. `! style="width:11em"; rowspan=2 | Conductor` should be `! style="width:11em"; rowspan=2 scope=col | Conductor`), including the "secondary" column headers (runtimes 1, 2, etc.). This, combined with the rowscopes you already have, lets non-visual screen reader software accurately read out what cells go with what columns.
- Doing... Sorry, I learn by example and am not that great at the technical elements of Wikipedia code. Would you be kind enough to help me? Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 23:24, 13 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Basically, whenever you define a column you should include a "scope=col" in the code, so in your case it would be (in full) "! style="width:11em"; rowspan=2 scope=col | Conductor". Check out what I did here and try to replicate it for the other tables. This is one of those new accessibility things we've been trying to incorporate
- Done – I have addressed this in these edits. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 16:57, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Basically, whenever you define a column you should include a "scope=col" in the code, so in your case it would be (in full) "! style="width:11em"; rowspan=2 scope=col | Conductor". Check out what I did here and try to replicate it for the other tables. This is one of those new accessibility things we've been trying to incorporate
- Tables need captions- e.g. at the top of the table code put `|+ table_caption_text`. If this text would duplicate a nearby section header, you can hide it from visual browsers like |+ {{sronly|table_caption_text}}. This allows non-visual screen reader software to jump straight to a named table without having to read out all the text above it to find it. --PresN 16:42, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Doing... Sorry, I learn by example and am not that great at the technical elements of Wikipedia code. Would you be kind enough to help me? Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 23:24, 13 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Have added these myself, no worries! Aza24 (talk) 21:05, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Done – I have addressed this in these edits. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 16:57, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Have added these myself, no worries! Aza24 (talk) 21:05, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Source review – Pass
[edit]Well I already looked at the sources when we were discussing at my talk page, but let's see what I find now...! Aza24 (talk) 21:06, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Version reviewed: [3]
- Formatting
- Generally page ranges are "pp." and single pages are "p." this is by no means required, but is the standard, if you are so inclined
- The linear notes look fine, there is a lot so hopefully I didn't miss any inconsistencies....
- Reliability
- No issues, great sourcing!
- Verifiability
- Refs 32, 117, 119 and 127 aren't connecting to their respective Sources (check for typos or incorrect years and then make sure they connect when you hover over them)
- Done 3 of 4 – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:43, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Ewen and Goss could do with an identifier or some sort, ISBN or OCLC maybe? Aza24 (talk) 21:13, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Added OCLC – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:43, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Aza24 – Thanks for the source review. I have fixed almost everything, and added missing sources for the Sfns with harv error (which were difficult to find, give that I know very less about this list). 3 of the 4 errors are now resolved, but I'm not able to find the source for the remaining one (Ref#117). Should I just remove it as the same info could be verified by other given sources too. Please suggest. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 18:43, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Many thanks for stepping in here Kavyansh.Singh. I'm not sure where Silence of Järvenpää has gone, but they were awfully excited about this list, so it would be a shame to see all this work fail FLC. I'm thinking the ref in question is for this publication, would you concur? Aza24 (talk) 05:37, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- @Aza24 – Thanks for the link, but it appears that I have used the same booklet for Ref#32, which too appears to refer to this one. Are both the references same.... Silence of Järvenpää has made around 10 edits in last 30 days. Indeed this is an excellent list, and I want it to pass the nomination. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 06:06, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Kavyansh.Singh I think it must be to the same score, especially per the roman numerals in the preface, presumably SoJ accidentally cited it differently. The information for ref 32 also seems to be cited on page xi. Does that seems sound? On another note, I'm going to attempt to combine some of refs in a row to one to hopefully help things move along. Aza24 (talk) 06:14, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- I have merged both the short footnotes. Hopefully, that addresses all the comments of the source review. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:09, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Kavyansh.Singh I think it must be to the same score, especially per the roman numerals in the preface, presumably SoJ accidentally cited it differently. The information for ref 32 also seems to be cited on page xi. Does that seems sound? On another note, I'm going to attempt to combine some of refs in a row to one to hopefully help things move along. Aza24 (talk) 06:14, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- @Aza24 – Thanks for the link, but it appears that I have used the same booklet for Ref#32, which too appears to refer to this one. Are both the references same.... Silence of Järvenpää has made around 10 edits in last 30 days. Indeed this is an excellent list, and I want it to pass the nomination. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 06:06, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Definitely, splendid work. Pass for source review. Aza24 (talk) 06:18, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from TRM
[edit]- "Sibelius cycle" no idea why "cycle" has to be in italics here.
- Done Removed. Silence of Järvenpää (talk)
- Also no really good reason to bold the symphonies.
- Done Removed. Silence of Järvenpää (talk)
- "in the U.S.)." I would say United States to avoid that awkward full stop/parenthesis/full stop construction.
- Done 3/3 U.S. changed to United States. Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 00:20, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- 43rd : The ordinal suffix (e.g., th) is not superscripted.
- Done Removed 1/1 instances found. Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 00:22, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Our article calls him Neeme Järvi.
- Doing... Not sure what you mean here. I see Neeme in the article referenced as Neeme. Is it perhaps that you saw Paavo Järvi, his son, and thought it was an error? Clarification welcome! Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 00:20, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- This appears to have been Done – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 19:02, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- "gesture... " see MOS:ELLIPSIS, non-breaking space before the ellipsis in this case. Check all other instances.
- Done 5/5 instances changed. Silence of Järvenpää (talk) 00:39, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- "runtime [m]" no spaces between headings and footnotes.
- Done Removed Silence of Järvenpää (talk)
- "Select incomplete Sibelius cycles:" does that mean that it's an {{incomplete list}}?
- Why two runtimes (32:28, 30:46)?
@Silence of Järvenpää – can you please clarify the above two points. I have taken care of rest all of the issues. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 19:02, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]- It appears to me (per the source) that Karajan did two different recordings of Symphony 5, thats why 2 runtimes. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:01, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Ref 4 pp.
- In fact, check all multiple page sources are using pp. not p.
- "Sibelius: Symphonies Nos. 1-7 " should be en-dash.
- " OCLC ????" is there any point to this?
- No, removed. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 19:02, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A prodigious piece of work. Just a few points above. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:44, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Are you going to respond to the other comments? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:24, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- @The Rambling Man – The nominator is not very active on Wikipedia since last month, so I have addressed all your remaining comments, except one about {{incomplete list}}, which I'm not sure. Do you have any further comments? – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:01, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- @The Rambling Man – Just a courtesy ping for any follow-ups. The nominator has no edits since late August. I have made almost all the remaining changes. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 12:16, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- @The Rambling Man – The nominator is not very active on Wikipedia since last month, so I have addressed all your remaining comments, except one about {{incomplete list}}, which I'm not sure. Do you have any further comments? – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 17:01, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Are you going to respond to the other comments? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:24, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed some minor table formatting issues, and addressed the "incomplete list" comment- the section has a form inclusion criteria (a conductor who recorded 3+ parts with the same orchestra (but not all 7)), but it was buried in a note instead of in the text. I've made it more prominent. With that, I think we're good to promote. --PresN 14:21, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.