Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Yugoslav torpedo boat T6/archive1

Yugoslav torpedo boat T6

Featured article candidates/Yugoslav torpedo boat T6/archive1

Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:49, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

T6 was a dinky little steam-driven torpedo boat that started life as an Austro-Hungarian vessel. She saw extensive service in the Adriatic Sea in the latter stages of WWI, performing convoy, escort, patrol and minesweeping tasks, and anti-submarine operations. After WWI she was taken over by the new South Slav state, the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes – which was renamed Yugoslavia in 1929. She was captured by the Italians during the Axis invasion of Yugoslavia in April 1941, and despite her age the Italians put her to good use on coastal and second-line escort duties in the Adriatic. When the Italians capitulated in September 1943, her crew tried to reach an Allied port, but scuttled her when this proved impossible. This article is part of the 36-article Featured topic, Ships of the Royal Yugoslav Navy, that I am slowing improving to the point where every article and list is Featured (I'm about two-thirds of the way there). Have at it! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:49, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:Yugoslav torpedo boat T3.jpg - a reprint of the source just credits the image to "Photo, Official" - could you please explain where the indication is that this is a British official photo, rather than a Yugoslav one?

The answer to this is with reference to the captions of photographs of RN ships in the same book, which have exactly the same annotation, "Photo, Official", whereas French ships for example, have "French Navy, Official" (see page 139 for an example of the latter). I consider it is entirely reasonable to assume that because it does not say "Yugoslav Navy, Official", but uses the same annotation as RN vessels, that it was taken by a RN source (probably the naval attache, or by a RN ship on a show the flag visit). Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:12, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will also note that the caption doesn't quite work right now - it's technically unsourced since the distinction is never made in this article that T-3 was of the T type instead of the F type. The same source this image is from does include a photo of one of the two-funnel models of these torpedo boats, but it's of much lower quality so I can understand why it is not used. Hog Farm _Talk 23:01, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it is necessary to cite the fact that T3 was a T-group boat as it is very unlikely to be challenged. I could add it and a citation to the caption if you think it is necessary, but it seems like overkill to me. An explanation of the distinction is made per "The F-group had two funnels rather than the single funnel of the T-group" under Description and construction. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:12, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

G'day Hog Farm. See what you think of my responses above. Thanks so much for having a look! Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:12, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay - passing on the image review. Hog Farm _Talk 13:33, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sammi Brie

Solid article. Paragraphs and sentences occasionally need splitting, and I have some thoughts on commas. Ping me when all of this is handled. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 02:40, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead:

she was armed with two 66 mm (2.6 in) guns and four 450 mm (17.7 in) torpedo tubes, and could carry 10–12 naval mines One subject: "she". Remove the comma. WP:CINS

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:30, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Background:

Would a paragraph split be useful?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:30, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In such circumstances, there would be a need for a torpedo boat that could sail from the Austro-Hungarian Navy (German: kaiserliche und königliche Kriegsmarine, Hungarian: Császári és Királyi Haditengerészet) base at the Bocche di Cattaro (the Bocche or Bay of Kotor) to the strait during the night, locate and attack blockading ships and return to port before morning. Consider converting the translation note to a footnote to improve readability in this complex sentence.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

as diesels with the necessary power were not available, and the Austro-Hungarian Navy did not have the practical experience to run turbo-electric boats Remove comma as this is part of one clause.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:09, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Description and construction:

The 250t-class F-group boats had short raised forecastles and an open bridge, and were fast and agile Remove comma CinS

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd recommend splitting the first paragraph unless it is like this in other articles of the FT.

Good point, it has become larger over time as more material has become available, and is now a bit unwieldy. I have reorganised it a bit, then split it. See what you think? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

with the forward gun mounted on the forecastle, and the aft gun on the quarterdeck Remove comma
with one pair mounted between the forecastle and bridge, and the other aft of the mainmast Remove comma

Both done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

93 F was laid down on 9 January 1915, launched on 25 November, and commissioned on 4 April 1916 Remove comma after 25 November to be consistent with this article's non-use of serial comma. (There is one serial comma later that is fine because of the complexity of the phrase)

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Career:

The original concept of operation for the 250t-class boats was that they would sail in a flotilla at the rear of a cruising battle formation, and were to intervene Remove comma

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On 29 October she underwent Comma after "29 October" for consistency with the other date prepositional clauses in this paragraph

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In June, 93, along with 96, and Csikós and her sister ships Wildfang and Velebit were try the comma order In June, 93, along with 96 as well as Csikós and her sister ships Wildfang and Velebit, were

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

During 1917, 93 conducted further minesweeping missions, and escorted 36 convoys. Remove comma before "and" (CinS). Think of it this way. Is the part after the conjunction a standalone sentence conceivably? Not "Escorted 36 convoys.".

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

of Pag, but had to terminate Remove comma.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On 20 August, 93 was transferred to the Bocche, and was part of the 1st Torpedo Flotilla Remove comma (CinS)

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On 29 September, 93 along with 82, 87 and 96, and the Ersatz Triglav-class destroyers Lika, Dukla and Uzsok try On 29 September, 93 along with 82, 87 and 96 plus the Ersatz Triglav-class destroyers Lika, Dukla and Uzsok,

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As the end of the war approached in November and the Austro-Hungarian Empire broke apart, on 1 November 93 was ceded to the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs Restructure so "1 November 93" is not stuck together and could be mistaken for a date. Splitting the description of the SSCS into its own sentence ("This was...") will help.

I think I have addressed this, perhaps not exactly as you envisaged. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Skradin where the population begged them to leave the harbour to avoid the town being bombed by the Italians. Add comma after Skradin for readability

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In response, Kern ordered T6 to escort Perun to the Bay of Kotor, and the two vessels arrived there the next day without incident, where T6's malfunctioning gun was repaired and she was loaded with weapons, supplies and extra men and sent to Šibenik. Split this sentence: In response, Kern ordered T6 to escort Perun to the Bay of Kotor; the two vessels arrived there the next day without incident. There, T6's malfunctioning gun was repaired; she was loaded with weapons, supplies and extra men and sent to Šibenik.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

the Axis puppet fascist state, the Independent State of Croatia (NDH) try the Independent State of Croatia (NDH), an Axis puppet fascist state

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

T6's commander, a Slovene, was not interested in serving in a Croatian navy, and abandoned Remove comma after "navy" CinS

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

join NDH navy missing "the"

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

G'day Sammi Brie, all done I reckon. See what you think? Thanks for taking a look, apologies for the delay in addressing your comments. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:18, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to Support after taking a look. My issues are rectified. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 02:32, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Pendright

Placeholder - Pendright (talk) 03:10, 22 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PM - I seem to be awash in projects, so for now I'm wiggling out of this one—my apology. Pendright (talk) 23:20, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matarisvan

Hi Peacemaker67, my comments:

Why have we not linked to the Skoda 7 cm gun article in the lead when we have linked to it in the infobox?

Good question. Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:39, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"...Schwarzlose M.7/12 machine gun carried for anti-aircraft work": prefix "carried" with "was" for grammatical accuracy?

Wow, not sure how that got through previous reviews... Fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:39, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the WWI subsection, "the naval historian Zvonimir Freivogel" is too long, just "Freivogel" may bw enough since he was introduced just two paragraphs ago.

Ah yes, fixed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:39, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Link to Brijuni islands?

It is already piped to the Fasana Channel, but no harm in linking directly. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:39, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Link to Strojne Tovarne (Iskra)?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:39, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How exactly did the ship make a good impression in Malta? Was it the sailors' conduct, the ship's power or something else?

Presumably the sailor's conduct and the appearance of the ship. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Link to Zablaće (Šabac) or Zablaće (Čačak), whichever one the source is referring to?

It's neither, both those villages are landlocked ones in Serbia. This is a different place, a village on the coast of Croatia. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"so took the": "so he took the"?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"join NDH navy": "join the NDH navy"?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the biblio, link to Norman Friedman and Velimir Terzić?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Add 44888337 as the JSTOR ID for Vego 1982?

I'm not a huge fan of adding extra identifiers, the task is to enable verification, not provide every possible option to access it. Unless the MoS has changed and it is now mandatory, I'll stick to one I think. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As an aside, would you be ok with adding DOIs for the books? These enable easier access than ISBNs and I faintly recall that there is an MOS on providing as many access options as possible. If you do wish to, then Djukanović 2023 and Ramet 2006 do have DOIs available.

See my response above. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's all from me, will do a source review soon. Cheers Matarisvan (talk) 09:14, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, Matarisvan. See what you think of my responses above. Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:52, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding my support, will do spot checks soon. Matarisvan (talk) 06:32, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67, I will not be doing the spot checks since Jo-Jo is already doing a source review. I would suggest you get a review from @Nigel Ish, who's a subject matter expert on ships. Matarisvan (talk) 15:07, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment

Going into five weeks and this nom hasn't garnered a single support. Unless it receives several further in depth reviews over the next week or so it's most likely going to be archived. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 18:57, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Peacemaker67, any progress on the reviews above and below? Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 19:11, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Crisco 1492

Reserving a spot. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:29, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They were the first small Austro-Hungarian Navy boats to use turbines, - Previous sentence had "Austro-Hungarian Navy", which may be misunderstood as "They". Perhaps "The 250t class"?

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On 11 May 1917, 93 F, 96 F and 78 T, accompanied by the Huszár-class destroyer Csikós, unsuccessfully pursued the British submarine HMS H1 after the submarine had stalked 78 T off Pola, missing her with two torpedoes. - Feels like this could be simplified. Perhaps "after the submarine had fired two torpedoes at 78 T"?

Have had a crack at simplifying, see what you think now. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bojana river - As a proper noun, shouldn't this be Bojana River? Same with Brijuni islands and Istrian peninsula

Done. Not sure how that happened. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

World War I - Question... I thought World War I was preferred in American English, with First World War preferred in British English.

It's written in Australian English, and we don't mind (both are used). Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:40, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

When the navy was formed, she and the other seven 250t-class boats were the only modern sea-going vessels in the KM - Would "were its only modern sea-going vessels" work better?

Sure, done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not seeing consistency in your use of the Oxford comma.

It really isn't consistent in Australia, the government style guide says only to use it when ambiguity is created by its absence. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bay of Kotor - You referred to it as Bocche earlier. Why the shift?

Change of usage over time. Generally the Italian usage was most common in WWI, but in Yugoslav times, it was referred to as the Bay of Kotor. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Overall, the prose is quite tight. Well done! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:54, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, Chris. Sorry about the delay. See what you think of my responses. Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good. Thank you! — Chris Woodrich (talk) 13:31, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dudley

"second-line escort duties". What does "second-line" mean here? This needs explaining.

Added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot see an explanation. Dudley Miles (talk) 15:42, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Kraljevska Mornarica, KM". Not "Kraljevska Mornarica (KM)"?

Well, it's already in parens, and the semicolon associates them sufficiently, IMHO. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"New torpedo tubes of the same size". Presumably the same as the old ones but this should be clarified.

Correct, added. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"accompanied the light cruiser Dalmacija, the submarine tender Hvar and the submarines Hrabri and Nebojša". New KM ships? As you say above that originally there were only eight ships in the KM navy you should clarify.

Done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I find the second paragraph of WWII confusing. Šibenik Command was presumably a naval command of the NDH, so why should it need to be evacuated and why did Italy capture the boats of its Fascist ally?

It is the KM Šibenik Command (added). The Italians did not approve of the NDH having a navy, and the Germans acquiesced in this until the Italians surrendered in September 1943. Do you think I need to explain this? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"but T6 was captured by the Italians along with the other boats of the division". Maybe "but the Italians opposed NDH having a navy and they captured the boats of the division including T6". Dudley Miles (talk) 15:42, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a CS1 maint error notice on the Freivogel ref. Dudley Miles (talk) 15:14, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure of what this is? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The message on the last Freivogel source is "CS1 maint: ignored ISBN errors". Dudley Miles (talk) 15:42, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking a look, Dudley. See what you think of my responses. Regards, Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 05:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

Source formatting seems consistent. 978-953-366-036-9 throws an ISBN error. Is there a logic behind using Google Books for some sources, OCLC and ISBN for others? None of the sources seem to be inappropriate. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:17, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]