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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 13:50, 15 August 2010 [1].

Stephens City, Virginia

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Stephens City, Virginia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:55, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

After achieving GA status on the Stephens City, Virginia article on May 31, 2010, I asked for and recieved a review from User:Wehwalt (who is well know here with many FAs under his belt), after some tinkering Wehwalt said it was ready for FAC, so here I am. I am open to any and all changes and open to tinkering of all sorts. Thanks...Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:55, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • NOTE: Due to "maintenance" by my internet provider, I may lose service and connection for several hours, please don't think I am ignoring your posts. I will get to them as soon as my service is restored. Thank you. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 10:00, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the lead, I'd roll together paras 3 & 4
  • done
  • ''In 1992, a large section of the center of the town, comprised of 65 acres (26 ha), is part of the Newtown-Stephensburg Historic District, was listed on the National Register of Historic Places. — doesn't make sense, is there an "and" missing? Also comprised of what? Do you just mean it has the stated area
  • done
  • ''is part of occurs four times in four consecutive sentences
  • done
  • traverses through — either traverses or goes through
  • done
  • History para 1 unlink "German", already linked in lead, not even first use in this para
  • Done
  • Palatinate — link or explain
  • named for the Stephens Family — Why is family capitalised?
  • Sorry, thought that was the way to go, my mistake. Correcting and Done.
  • Though Hite's title to the land was challenged by Thomas Fairfax — do we know why?
  • Thomas Fairfax, 6th Lord Fairfax of Cameron was supposed to have been the Land Baron of this area and own most of it from near Culpeper to parts of now West Virginia. I will add something about that and link to a reference.
  • Winchester and Strasburg Railroad Company. — I don't think railroad needs a link, certainly not in the company name
  • Done
  • construct a railroad line — I'm not an expert on AE, but I would have thought either "railroad" or "rail line"
  • Done
  • linking Newtown to the nation — "rest of the nation" I assume
  • Done
  • in the climate table, you have converted F to C, but the Celsius figures are given to 2 decimal places, and the Fahrenheit to 1 dp. Need to round off since conversion can't be more accurate than original.
  • That is actually the table itself doing the conversion, I just added the Fahrenheit entries.
  • The 2008 estimate found 1,488 people, an increase of 29.84% from the year 2000. —An estimate can't "find" people, should be "was". Since it's an estimate, giving the percentage to four sig figs shows a touching faith in statistics
  • Done
  • Males had a median income of $29,432 versus $22,313 for females. The per capita income for the city was $17,998 — how can the per capita be less than the male and female figures?
  • Ya got me. I just put in the figures, I don't try to make sense of them. :)
  • I looked at the source! the male and female figures are for those in full-time year-round work, presumably the per capita includes the unemployed, retired and part-time workers. Can the status of the male/female data be clarified please? Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:52, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • My mistake, I overlooked "year round workers" when I entered in that information. I have added "employed" to the sentence.
  • American at 14.7%, — need clarification of what is meant by American ethnicity - does it mean native American?
  • European at 1.4% — other European or unspecified European?
  • Again, this is directly from the 2000 Census, I am guessing "unspecified", but again, that is a guess, which is why I linked to European American, let me know if that should change.
  • Slavic at 0.4% —other or unspecified?
  • This is another one of those Census made non-discript categories, so I just linked to the Slavic Americans page and didn't try to guess. Sorry.
  • two-year anniversary — year and anniversary mean the same, "second anniversary" would be better
  • Done by Jimfbleak because I completely missed this entry. Sorry.
  • The Family Drive-In Theatre — can you make it clear that this is a cinema? Outside the US, a theatre is somewhere that has plays rather than films.
  • That is actually the name of the business, but I have linked to Drive-in theater and switched the sentence around a little.
  • In "Government", I wonder if it's a bad idea to put the names of the otherwise non-notable town post-holders — it builds in obsolescence. Also, on first use, I'd spell out Republican rather than just have "R"
  • Took out the less notable government leaders. I left in the police and fire chiefs, let me know if those should go too) and added the full "Republican" in parentheses.
  • near the Family Drive In. — previously "the" was capitalised, can you make it consistent through the article one way or the other?
  • Done, sorry.
  • The ending terminus will — "ending" is redundant, a terminus is the end by definition
  • Switched "ending" to "eastern" for the direction and as I have "western terminus" in a sentence above.
  • The religious data, which adds to 100%, is clearly just analysing those attending protestant Christian churches, and presumably excludes atheists, Catholics, Muslims, Jews and those people who are not church members. Can this be made clear? (there seem to be a huge number of churches for such a small town!)
  • We are a very religious area. In nearby Winchester, there are even more churches. The local Catholic church and Jewish temple is located there as well. We have a VERY small Muslim population, mostly college kids, and those are in Winchester as well, I can link those. Done.
  • I reviewed another small town currently also at FAC, Little Thetford. I note that that article had an "Economy" section. Does your town have any employment other than heritage tourism?
  • This I tried very hard on. Even the US Census shows no ecomony information for Stephens City. So I had nothing to build an article on. We have some "hometown" businesses in our town limits, while the national businesses (gas stations, fast food restaurants, and grocery stores) are located just to the east of town. The major businesses (Walmart, mall, department stores, etc) are located in Winchester. Really, in the main town limits, there is very limited economic business going on with the exception of the hometown businesses, which unfortunately, I can't source. There is nothing from the town, state or Census I can show information about. Anything I would add would be OR. :(
This is the economic data for Stephens City as of the 2000 census. While this doesn't tell what specific businesses are in town, it does give an idea of what residents do for work. In Stephens City, the largest sector for residents in 2000 was manufacturing (about 20%). It also lets us know commute time (and that over 90% of working residents commute). Because this section will likely be short, it could be a subsection of demographics IMO. --JonRidinger (talk) 01:16, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Dude you rock! I will see what I can throw together in my sandbox, might ask for someone to give it a look-see and then add it to the article. Jon, thanks! :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:56, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Per several requests and the finding of new information, I have constructed (with the help of two admins) an "Economy" section and added it to the page. Please let me know if anything in that section needs to be changed, updated, or removed. Thank you. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:14, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's a bit dry, with just stats, but a lot better than nothing (: Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:16, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am also actively looking for some other sources and information. There isn't much as previously stated, but I will definitely look. If I missed that, who knows what else I may have overlooked. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:14, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There are probably figures on gross receipts or sales tax receipts published somewhere. After all, Stephens City gets a piece of the action on those ...--Wehwalt (talk) 23:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

oppose - WP:FA Criteria 3. File:SealofStephensCityVirginia.PNG does not significantly increase my understanding, failing contextual significance and File:StephensCity_HistoricMarker.JPG does not give the date the sign was created and may be improperly licensed Fasach Nua (talk) 19:36, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Neutralhomer, can you make out on the historic marker when it was put up? Did it replace a marker with identical text? What Fasach Nua is saying is that the text (and perhaps other elements) may be copyrighted since I don't believe Virginia government works are in the public domain. There is a guide to Virginia historical markers put out years ago, I've seen copies of it but don't own one. I'm posting this for Neutralhomer's benefit as he is new to the process. --Wehwalt (talk) 19:43, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, more outages and sleep, am up now. The marker sign has been in town as long as I have been here (since 1992), so it has probably been here longer. I did take the picture myself (all pictures on the Stephens City page were taken by me and added to Commons), so I don't know if that bypasses things slightly. I will check (normally it is printed at the bottom) when it was created though. As for the seal, Fasach Nua and I have discussed this before and towns and cities of FA quality have seals. I will, though, work to get any further information to "increase" his "understanding" of the seal if needed. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 21:49, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There is no problem with you taking the pictures, I often do it myself. However, the historical marker may be copyrighted.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:53, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I drove down to the sign (real quick drive from my house) seen no copyright just "Department of Conservation and Historic Resources, 1988" at the bottom in silver lettering. Sadly, my camera doesn't work (batteries are dead) so I couldn't take a picture for confirmation. Which you can clearly see from this photo (from another site...not taken by me). - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:14, 22 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Since the marker didn't claim copyright, and it doesn't seem to have had a later claim made, the text of the marker is apparently PD. See WP:MCQ for Neutralhomer's question about this image and a response by Wehwalt. Nyttend (talk) 02:28, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
On Wehwalt's recommendation, I have also added {{PD-US-1978-89}} to the image just to be on the safe side. That can be removed or updated on what MCQ says. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:34, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Per above, I have worked (along side Wehwalt and Nyttend, both admins) on fixing the issues raised by Fasach Nua. I invited him to a discussion about the images on my talk page and at MCQ (both of which have since concluded). Fasach Nua removed both without comment. I left a final message on his talk page asking for some form of comment on either this page, my talk page or MCQ, it too was removed without comment. I am unsure how to proceed, hence I bring this to the attention of the page. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 11:41, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Per USC 17 § 101, "'Publication' is the distribution of copies or phonorecords of a work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending"; why is mere installation of this marker being equated with publication? Copies were sold and/or leased to the public? Эlcobbola talk 16:30, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I was asleep (insomnia got the best of me earlier). To the best of my knowledge, you can not buy a copy of the historical marker anywhere, just take pictures, which several people have done, including the State of Virginia (with no copyright needed there either). I put the {{PD-US-1978-89}} template to the image, at the recommendation of an admin friend helping me, as a "play it on the safe side" option. If it isn't necessary, it can always be removed or another like template added. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 22:40, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The point is that the {{PD-US-1978-89}} tag applies to published works. Why is it being claimed that this is published? That others have photographed it is not relevant to its copyright status; they are able to do so under "real life" fair use (which is not the same as out proprietary criteria). Эlcobbola talk 16:49, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think the reason we put {{PD-US-1978-89}} there is because of the text at the bottom of the marker that reads "Department of Conservation and Historic Resources, 1988" at the bottom in silver lettering, which you can clearly see from this photo (not taken by me). We (Nyttend, Wehwalt and myself after talking on my talk page and MCQ) decided on that template as a "on the safe side" since it might have been copyrighted in 1988, but not since. We have no information that states it was copyrighted, we just did it to be on the safe side of things in case it was. If you feel it needs changed, please feel free to change or update the template on the image (it is hosted at Commons), no worries. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 23:17, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Getting long here-- are images clear or not? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:35, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry folks, sleep happened. Back now (with a stomach ache). Image File:StephensCity_HistoricMarker.JPG has been removed per a discussion with two other users, the seal remains as it is available on other FA pages about towns/cities. I have asked Fasach Nua to respond on this, but he is on Wikibreak. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:15, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Per further discussion with the user that opposed, I have removed the File:SealofStephensCityVirginia.PNG image. This (and the post above this one) should address all the concerns related to that users oppose. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:52, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
oppose removed as the article only contains free images Fasach Nua (talk) 04:40, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sources comments

  • Ref 8: title is over-elaborate - a shorter form would do.
    • Acutally, that is the full title of the book, amazingly. (How'd they fit that on the front?)
  • Consistency is required on formatting publication dates. Most commonly the date follows the author's name, as in refs 8, 9, 13 etc, but see 14, 15, 17 and maybe others.
    • Done.
  • To what does "Unknown" refer in ref 16?
    • It refers to the publisher. I can look though.
      • Publication date also lacking. Does "unknown" mean "unknown to you", or "unrecorded"? This looks to me as though it is something privately published; does the book give any useful indication, and does it have a year? Brianboulton (talk) 09:03, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • Unkown to me and the Newtown History Center (where I did some research...they have the books there, saved me a trip to the Library Archives).
          • In which case I would replace the word "Unknown" with: "Date and publisher not recorded, per Newtown History Center" (and say where the Center is). That gives greater validity thean merely "unknown". Brianboulton (talk) 20:32, 23 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
            • Done. :)
  • Ref 28, Geobytes? It seems to work, but...does it pass the reliability test? Do you know who/what is behind it (apart from the Vital Hotel, Tel Aviv)?
    • Geobytes was 28 (corrected above). I just used it for the distance from Stephens City to Baltimore, MD, two of the closest major cities (the other DC).
  • Ref 72: Sports Illustrated, being a print source, should be italicised per MOS
    • Done.
  • General point: a large proportion of the sources seem to be here merely to confirm the existence of a building or institution. I wonder why this is necessary. For instance, in my home town (pop. about 15,000) the existence of all similar places is verifiable from the official town guide. Is there not an equivalent publication that could be used here?
    • On the schools, I confirmed them with the school link as the town's website doesn't list them (for whatever reason). Stephens City is just a tiny little town of 1,500 and they just came into the information age via their town's website, so they are...well, working on it. :) I wish there was more up-to-date books, websites and other information on Stephens City, but due to it's size, not much is written after about 1930 or so and if it is, it is about the Civil War, nothing recent. I can give a try and see what I can find.
All sources issues resolved. Brianboulton (talk) 18:33, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]


  • Pending support appears to meet all of the featured article criteria after the corrections already made. While I generally prefer fewer images in article prose, they ones included all meet guidelines :-) I did wonder, though, if "Culture" was the right heading for that section, and if perhaps schools could be combined in there to avoid having a main section that is so short. The only issue, though, that made me put pending instead of straight support is there is one dead link, ref #2 for "Who's My Legislator"[2] -- AnmaFinotera (talk ~ contribs) 05:14, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • That link bothers me. That seems to "die" every couple months and needs to be updated. Sadly, I can't find a better link or I would use that. I have updated it and it now works again. I will actively work to find a better working link that isn't going to "die" every couple months. As for the "Culture" section name, I kinda copied the section names from the Minneapolis page (an FA class article) and from WP:USCITY, the outline for town/city pages per WP:CITIES. It has the "Culture" and "Schools" sections seperate, so I am hesitant to put them together as it would make a "sub-section" and those are generally frowned upon in FAs from what I have been told. I would be open to it if others feel it is necessary and if my "generally frowned upon" statement isn't correct. Please let me know if I can update those sections or anything else that might help. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 07:00, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • Cool (on the link) and changed to support. And no problem with having separate if that is how the outline/style guide has it. I would note, though, that I have never heard of sub-sections being frowned on in featured articles...I had several in my most recent one, and they are pretty common in many of the media ones. I'd say unnecessary ones are frowned on (which relates more to the overall MoS guidelines), but that's about it. :-) Nice city article and glad to see some of these getting some love. -- AnmaFinotera (talk ~ contribs) 07:07, 25 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Where is the nearest uni? YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 03:06, 27 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hey YM, the information from the Virginia State Board of Elections is this and gives the the vote numbers and precentages, it doesn't give a booth by booth number. In the recent election, it was only the people in the town limits that needed to vote. Myself, living just outside the town limits, didn't need to vote because I don't live in the town itself. As for the local sports clubs, we have the high school football teams, they are a big draw in the fall during football season, then there is the local university (about 5 miles away in Winchester, Virginia called Shenandoah University, they have several sports teams, but aren't that big at the moment. We also have a small very minor league baseball team in Winchester, part of Valley League Baseball, called the Winchester Royals, they get some press during their season (which is actually ongoing at present) other than that, it is just the nearby Washington, DC clubs (Redskins for the NFL, Nationals of the MLB, Wizards of the NBA, Capitals of the NHL, and the United of the MLS) and the Baltimore, Maryland teams (Ravens of the NFL and Orioles of the MLB), they have some fans, along with further away Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania where the Steelers play in the NFL. But those aren't really local or based in Stephens City proper. We are just a "little dot on the map". Hope that answers your questions. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:23, 27 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Are you going to put that stuf in then? YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 05:54, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I could, but where exactly should I put it? Plus, how could I source that some folks are Nationals fans or Steelers fans? I can say we are near Washington sports teams, but, there really isn't any sources I can back that statement up with. I can, though, source about the Winchester based VBL team and Shenandoah University and Middletown, Virginia's (5 miles to the south) Lord Fairfax Community College (forgot about them), but the others are not really sourceable. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 06:01, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I have added information about the Winchester Royals in the "Culture" section and information about Lord Fairfax Community College and Shenandoah University in the "Education" section. The other information, like I said above, isn't sourceable...sorry. Please let me know if I can update or tinker with the page further as I would be glad to. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 06:23, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It is, I agree, unlikely that you are able to say who the local people root for, unless a local paper did an article about that. You can say where the nearest major league sports teams are (i.e., Washington and Baltimore).--Wehwalt (talk) 12:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Speaking as an attorney who is licensed to practice in Virginia, Stephens City, as a town chartered by the General Assembly, elects its own town officials, and joins with the rest of Frederick County in electing the county's constitutional officials (Commonwealth Attorney, Clerk of the Circuit Court and Sheriff) as well as countywide officials. and also of course joins in electing executive and legislative members of the Virginia and Federal Governments. I've also served as an officer of election, and booth by booth results are not published. I suppose they could be gotten off the summary sheets submitted by the Chief Officer of Election for whatever precinct Stephens City is in, which are public record but not terribly relevant. What you probably want is the result for the Town of Stephens City, which should be obtainable as I would be surprised if Stephens City were part of a larger precinct, as that would be inconvenient in terms of the voting list and so forth, in the circumstances mentioned by Neutralhomer, there are times when incorporated areas (cities and towns, that is) hold elections not on the same day as the rest of Virginia. I think it would be a nice addition if the article mentioned what percentage of the vote Wolf, and let's say the two senators, and Obama got.--Wehwalt (talk) 04:55, 27 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have never seen a "precinct by precinct" print-out on the big election days in November, we are always just mushed in with the rest of Frederick County. Stephens City, since it is an incorporated town, is its own election precinct, outside the town is two seperate precincts. Mine, for example is "Canterburg" (no idea where it got the name) and we vote at Sherando High School, east of Stephens City. While the people in the town limits of Stephens City vote at the town hall in the town limits on Locust Street. All of these are run by the Frederick County Voter Registrar's Office located in Winchester (which serves as the County Seat for Frederick County, while itself being it's own Independent City, don't ask how that works). We are normally given election results via whatever source (CNN, MSNBC, local television) and that comes from the Virginia State Board of Elections. I will certainly look and see if there is a "precinct by precinct" print-out for the area for the big elections from the Virginia State Board of Elections, which you can find at www.sbe.virginia.gov if you would like to look as well. Gimme a few moments and I will see what I can dig up for the 2008 Presidential Election and the other big elections. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:11, 27 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I am actually quite surprised, there are results per precinct. What should I do with them? One small problem, I was slightly off on the Town of Stephens City precinct. It doesn't include just the town limits, it actually includes people to the southeast, outside the town limits. Those town limit stats are only for town only elections. State or National elections would include more than just the town of Stephens City. How do we fix this? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:26, 27 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Now that I look a little closer, about 10 to 15 houses on the northern section of town are actually in a totally different precinct and there is about 4 houses in an even different precinct. The southside of town, with the new construction, is in an even different precinct. So literally the town is divided into 4 precincts. There is no possible way I can get an exact tally on whom voted for whom in just the town limits. Sorry. :( - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:30, 27 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If you can reliably source that, it might be a good idea to note that stats for statewide elections for Stephens City are not available, but in the 2008 election, Frederick County voted for (whosits) by a margin of xx percent to yy (note the non breaking space I put in), and for Senator in 2006 ... if it would be too difficult to reliably source the first part of what I said, then it isn't a big deal, just forget about it.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:54, 27 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I could do that and say (and ref with a county GIS map) that Stephens City is broken into four seperate electorial precincts. I can give the 2006 and 2008 numbers under "Government". I can tell you we are primarily a Republican county. I don't know if Frederick County has have been "blue". - Neutralhomer • Talk • 00:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That is fine.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:57, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Added, check with Wehwalt and he tinkered with it a little. "Government" section now has 2006 and 2008 state and national election information. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 01:46, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Can't say I'm a big fan of including county election info in an article about a specific town. The county info is appropriate in the county article; there's no need to duplicate it here and it tells the reader really nothing specific about Stephens City as town stats can vary greatly from county ones, especially when the town is as small as this. The same goes for adding the mention of sports teams and schools in nearby cities. It is not a crime for this article to have small sections or combined sections; it's a town of less than 2,000 people. I almost get the feeling we're trying to make the sections some kind of minimum length. If information isn't available, then it isn't avaialble. We don't need to manufacture or substitute info to replace it. Unless something outside the town directly serves it (like the school district) or has a sourced or otherwise clear connection, then it really shouldn't be mentioned in the article. --JonRidinger (talk) 14:47, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have to agree with Jon here. The article was fine before...adding all this "nearby" and county level stuff just to add more content is, to me, a bit unnecessary. It is a small town, it stands to reason it will have briefer sections. This is not a flaw nor a failing of the article at all. -- AnmaFinotera (talk ~ contribs) 14:49, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well, perhaps provide it as an external link then?--Wehwalt (talk) 15:20, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The info is either relevant to the article topic or it isn't. External links need to have the same relevance to the article as any info included, so if it doesn't fit the main subject I can't see how an external link would be appropriate. Interestingly enough, there is a discussion going on about the scope of city articles at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cities#Scope of a city's article. The prevailing consensus at this point (myself included) is that we generally need to stick to the city boundaries and take those things outside the city boundaries on a case-by-case basis, otherwise we have unnecessary duplication and articles that don't actually cover the topic itself. So yes, small towns aren't going to have a whole lot of information in comparison due to lack of sources or just being small and not having certain elements (like pro sports and universities) that larger cities do. --JonRidinger (talk) 15:42, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
OK, just to make sure I am clear on things, should I remove the state/national election information for the county and the points where I talk about the local community college and university (based in nearby Middletown and Winchester respectively)? - Neutralhomer • Talk • 19:17, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I obviously think you should as they really aren't totally relevant to the topic at hand. If you add things that are somewhat related, where do we stop? Pretty soon you have an article that's not about Stephens City but about the general area around Stephens City, which the county article can and should cover. Even then I'd wait for some consensus before you proceed. --JonRidinger (talk) 19:30, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Will do. If anyone thinks of anything that either should or shouldn't be in the article, please let me know. I might take a nap for a couple hours (didn't get enough sleep) but will answer your posts when I get back. If consensus does build before I wake up, please feel free to remove the state/national election information and college/university information from the page, no worries. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:09, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Since no consensus went the other way, I have removed the state/national election information and local community college/university information from the page. If consensus swings back the other way, it can always be readded. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:32, 30 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

About the mosques and synagogues in close proximity how far are they away and how many adherents of those relgions are present in teh city and need to travel out? What % are atheist? It only talks about Christian %s at the moment. How old are the churches? Are any of them historic or heritage listed? YellowMonkey (vote in the Southern Stars and White Ferns supermodel photo poll) 02:50, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See, oddly, this is the only information that gives. Now the same study went to all towns, it gave Muslim and Catholic presentages in those towns, probably Jewish too. But they only talked to the people in the town limits of Stephens City and the major numbers were identified, as far as I can tell, which is why we are a primarily "Christian town" (my term, not anyone elses). Not to say that since that 2000 study there haven't been people of other religions move into Stephens City, just I don't have an updated number like the Census does. I am not sure when this study will come out again in 2010, but I will keep an eye out.
To answer the distance to mosques and synagogues question, it would be about 5 miles. They are in nearby Winchester, which is about 5 miles away, but they aren't the mosques and synagogues as you would normally think of them. To be honest, they just look like a regular place of worship. This is the Beth El Congregation in Winchester (via Google Street View) and the Islamic Society of Winchester is just a house. To be honest, I didn't even know it was there. So they aren't what you would generally think a Mosque or Synagogue would look like. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:07, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have added a sentence about where (general location) the Catholic, Jewish and Muslim "bodies" are located in the "Religion" section.
To answer another question about the number of Atheists, that I really wouldn't know as they don't keep very good numbers, to be honest. I wouldn't even know where to look for that kind of information. Not to say we don't have Atheists in Stephens City, just they aren't listed. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:12, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
See if the study you cite in the article says anything further about where their data comes from. It is more than likely a case of the percentage of people who attend worship services or consider themselves religious rather than a percentage of the entire population. If categories aren't mentioned, we can't suppose anything about it here. --JonRidinger (talk) 04:46, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The study is called the "Congregations and Membership in the United States" from 2000, published by the Glenmary Research Center and a person by the name of Dale E. Jones. The information was taken, where the source is available (hence the only reason I pulled it from this site) from the City-Data.com page on Stephens City. As I said, it directly sources the information (which is very rare for that site) on the the page, which you will see at the link. All the categories given are the ones from the study. Sometimes this information is different from town to town. Example is the information from Kent, Ohio, that actually gives a precentage of Catholics and Muslims, alongside the Christian precentages. I would guess for NYC, it would show Jewish population as well. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 05:05, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Since Jews who follow Reform traditions are generally not observant in the sense of not driving on Shabbat, that synagogue (which, looking at the website, is, I gather not large) would probably draw from throughout Frederick County and beyond, anyone who cares to belong who is not close to Leesburg, where I am guessing the next closest synagogue is. It would say very little about Stephens City to know that there is a Reform synagogue in Winchester. Or any synagogue, really. Isn't this the same discussion as with the voting? We are speaking to characteristics of the general area, not Stephens City itself. I would say that the information about religion is sufficient.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:20, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment If I hadn't done a fair amount of work on the article, especially on the history section, I would support, and I believe the article deserves promotion.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:25, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Ruhrfisch I am very close to supporting this, but had a few issues I'd like to see addressed first. I contributed to a peer review of this article and have made a few copyedits.

  • Could a bit more be said about the Widdows-Frazier House? Perhaps add the year it was built in the caption? From its appearance, I assume it is one of the oldest houses in the town...
    • Yes, it is one of the oldest buildings in town. At present, I don't have any information on the page. I can contact my friend at the Newtown History Center, where all the history on Stephens City is stored and shown (it is a tiny museum...got a picture of that too) and see what he can dig up, plus sources. They probably won't be until Monday (they are closed on the weekends). The reason that building is on there is actually a mistake of my own. I thought it was the old Hull's Store, turns out (with an email from the Newtown History Center, by way of one of the Hull family) it is the Widdows-Frazier House. Ooops!
      • I am guessing it is a contributing structure to historic district. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 03:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • Yeah, it is just one of our older buildings in town. Actually, I think someone's private residence, but am not certain. We have a couple wooden buildings in town and they are all in great condition due to the care of the Newtown History Center and the Town Historic Preservation Committee. They do some awesome work. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:44, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • In History, should the Civil War skirmish be linked to Jackson's Valley Campaign somehow?
    • Done.
  • I really do not understand what this sentence means: The class of worker making private wage and salary workers was 77.7% of the population of the town or 457 people. Also 457 people would be 77.7% of roughly 588 people, so this seems like a math error of some sort.
    • All of that is from the US Census, so I was kinda trying to make sense of Census numbers. I tweaked the sentence to now read "Persons making private wage and salary workers accounted for 77.7% of the population of the town or 457 people in the town." Notice the number "457" is still there, as is "77.7%", as this is the figure given in the source. I am not sure if I should go outside of the source or not, even if it does appear to be wrong.
      • If you look at the actual source, the number of people that number is based on is indeed 588: "Employed civilian population 16 years and over: 588 100.0%" so it needs to be reworded to be 77.7% of those employed age 16 and over. Be careful in this section in general since it is referencing certain parts of the population; it isn't necessarily referencing the town itself, just those who live there. In other words, the economy of Stephens City doesn't necessarily include those various industries; the data only shows that residents worked in those specific industries. --JonRidinger (talk) 02:58, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • OK, I reworded it as "Persons, of those employed age 16 and over, making private wage and salary workers accounted for 77.7% of the population of the town or 457 people in the town." Does that sound better? If not, please let me know, I can tinker more. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 03:20, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is the Virginia Tech memorial in a town 175 miles away? Is there some special connection?
  • Try to avoid words like currently - so can the year Timothy T. O'Donnell joined the faculty and the year he became president be added so it is something like Timothy T. O'Donnell – Author and professor (since YEAR) and president (since YEAR) of Christendom College.[71]
    • Fixed and done.
  • Kelley Washington has signed with Philadelphia, so that needs to be updated.
    • Fixed and had to add another reference to reflect his new position at Philly.
  • This is NOT a FAC requirement, but I wonder if more images could be added? The Drive In or more historic properties perhaps, or a parade with onlookers for Demographics?
    • I did add one picture of the Drive-In to represent "Economy". When I took the picture around town, I did it at an hour of the afternoon when everyone was at work, so there weren't many cars on the street or people for that matter. If there were, I didn't try to get anyone in the shot, to avoid any potential BLP problems or problems with having unknown persons in the shot. The best picture I know of for the Newtown Heritage Festival would be from the Northern Virginia Daily, one of our local papers. I could, with proper FUR, upload it to Wikipedia and add it to the page. It would be the one picture not taken by me though, if that is OK.Neutralhomer • Talk • 02:48, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • Fair Use is almost never allowed for things that can be replaced - since anyone with a camera could get a photo of a parade etc. I do not see this being allowed as Fair Use. I also tend to get photos with as few people in them as possible. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 03:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nicely done, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 01:06, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • PS I am in favor of using the city seal in the article under FAIR USE terms. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 02:29, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I am also in favor. Copyrighted or not, the seal has a valid fair use rationale and is an element of the town; it's something you're going to see if you go there, so why not include it with a little explanation. No different than including the seal of a university in a particular university's article. I'd really hope this doesn't turn into another drawn out quagmire like happened on my FAC nomination even though the seal did have a valid fair use rationale and was further explained later. My only comment on the rest of the article has to do with the sports team in Winchester. I really don't think it should be mentioned here. It's an element of Winchester, not Stephens City and stuff like this was recently discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cities#Scope of a city's article. Anything that is outside the town's physical limits needs to have a clear and direct connection to it, like the public schools. The only time a sports team would be mentioned that was outside a particular city would be if there is a strong association with it like the New York Jets actually being in New Jersey, but with an obvious clear connection to New York City through the name. --JonRidinger (talk) 02:41, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have also asked this question at WT:FAC, before I saw this here. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 03:34, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • As long as allow copyrighted cover images and logos for every other article as an infobox image on the article topic they represent, there is no problem with it here. Mind you, I personally believe we can cut a lot of these images to meet NFC better, and have tried to propose a change for this, but consensus on WP is far far far from it. There should be no question about the use of the seal, as long as it meets all other NFC requirements. --MASEM (t) 04:00, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        • Since the town was known for its wagons and the seal shows a wagon, is there a WP:RS that mentions the connection (if so, I owuld include that fact in the article, which would starengthen the fair use argument). Ruhrfisch ><>°° 04:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
          • There is a mention about the covered wagons being made in Stephens City, but none about it being on the seal, I can quickly change that posthaste. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:28, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
            • I have added mention, with reference, about the wagon being featured on the seal and linked to the document of which I found the seal, which is an official Town of Stephens City document for "Rezoning". - Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:37, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) Per Neutralhomer's request, I sifted through the article's prose. A few comments:

  • Please make sure that your wording in the article is not too close to the source's; I fixed one instance but don't have the willpower to check every statement.
    • First off, thanks for giving the article a look-see and a once-over. I appareciate that.
  • "The median household income for the town of Stephens City was $35,200, with the majority, 126 persons, or 24.8%, of the population making around that amount." I couldn't quite grasp the meaning of this sentence; what does "making around that amount" mean?
    • This was because the Census information literally listed every possible income and I didn't think it was necessary to list them all with precentages (but will if it is). I changed "making around that amount" to "in that class of income".
  • "The head of Stephens City's government is Mayor Joy B. Shull, a former member of the Town Council, who was elected, after running unopposed in a May 4, 2010, election and will serve four years as mayor.[56] Shull succeeded Ray E. Ewing, who had served since 1994" The chronology is confusing; you say Shull "will serve" but that she has already succeeded Ewing as mayor.
    • Changed "will serve" to "is serving".
      • Watch out for wording that makes it "current". That was one thing that came up in my own FAC and is an issue in a lot of articles. Basically, it needs to be worded in a way that it won't become out of date in a matter of time. The way I solved this problem was simply listing when the mayor began serving in his/her specific office. In other words, it states a timeless fact and the "current" nature of it is implied to the reader without making it a dated comment. --JonRidinger (talk) 16:36, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The members of those five committees are all made up by Town Council members." This sentence confused me. Are committee members all Town Council members, or are they appointed by them?
    • Being a small town, the Town Council members are also on all the committees. Each member is a chairman of a committee, while some sit on one or two committees at a time. For example, newly elected member Martha Dilg is chair of the Personnel Committee, while sits on the Public Works Committee, it is just small town politics. This isn't unusual for small towns in Virginia. Now Winchester (population 25,000+) they have seperate people for their committees from their City Council.
  • The second paragraph of the "Transportation" section uses the word current no fewer than four times, which is problematic since it can be a dated term. Are there any specific dates you can add? For example, when do they plan to move State Route 277 south? Dabomb87 (talk) 16:12, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per SandyGeorgia, I have added   just about everywhere I could think of. I think (and hope) I did that right. I didn't really know to use   because I figured a standard space would work. Noob mistake. :) Please let me know if I went a little overboard with the   mark and I can take some down. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:19, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Also per SandyGeorgia, I have cleaned some of my overuse of   and limited to places I really really think it is needed. I honestly stink at adding the   tag, so any help would be welcomed. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 20:33, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Quick comments – Came to review the sports-related section, as I occasionally do with such articles, only to see that it consisted of exactly one sentence. This threatened to be one of the shortest reviews in Wikipedia history, but on a quick scan I was able to detect a few issues that could use attention. One was a ref location issue that I fixed myself; here are the others:
    • In a couple of places, particularly in the economy section, there is a tendency toward over-citation. The aforementioned section has one source that is used throughout, but there are too many cites to it in my mind. If there's only one source for all the information, it doesn't need to be used five times in one paragraph, as happens in one place here. Perhaps things would be different if the information was controversial, but these are just statistics. As long as they are correct, there should be no controversy there. You would be just as well off with one citation at the end of each paragraph, and it would be a little easier to read.
      • Fixed this one.
    • Is there a source for the last sentence in the religion section? I know this was added due to earlier discussions here, but its lack of a reference does stand out in its current position, especially since the rest of the article appears well-cited at a glance. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]


  • As of 9:50am EST this morning (8/15), this article was promoted by SandyGeorgia. I owe you all a debt of gratitude for helping me with this article, getting it to this point. I could not have done it without you. I know Wehwalt and JonRidinger are probably jumping for joy they never have to hear the words "Stephens City" again on their talk pages. :) I owe them big time as well. If it weren't for their constant guidance, I don't think I would have made GA. To all of the reviewers, thank you. You have helped me, made me reevaluate my own writing and look closer at things. In all, I have become a better writer for this. Again, thank you. :) - Neutralhomer • Talk • 17:39, 15 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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