Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ladislaus I of Hungary/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 02:26, 24 July 2015 [1].

Ladislaus I of Hungary

Nominator(s): Borsoka (talk) 04:20, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a 11th-century King of Hungary who consolidated the Christian monarchy. He is considered as "the incarnation of the late-medieval Hungarian ideal of chivalry". Borsoka (talk) 04:20, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural note -- Borsaka, per FAC instructions, when a review has been archived you're expected to wait two weeks before nominating any other article (not just the same one), unless given leave to do so by a coordinator. We hadn't caught this one before it attracted some commentary so will leave it open, but pls follow the instructions in future. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:44, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Ian Rose, sorry for it. I did not notice the rule you referred to above. Borsoka (talk) 03:19, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Singora Singora (talk) 17:11, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Good, but not without issues. If you're using a PC, click the "Ctrl" and "F" buttons simultaneously. In the little search box that appears at top right, enter the word "according". You've used this word 30 times. You need to inject variety, style and a bit of panache; you must avoid repetition.

For example:

- 1. According to the Illuminated Chronicle, King Solomon took refuge in the Holy Roman Empire.
- 2. The Illuminated Chronicle describes how King Solomon sought refuge in the Holy Roman Empire, observing how the king ...
- 3. The Illuminated Chronicle supports this thesis and discusses at length King Solomon's journey to the Holy Roman Empire. Chapter XXX, for example, mentions the king's ...
- 4. King Solomon then fled his homeland to seek refuge in the Holy Roman Empire, an episode recounted in great detail in the Illuminated Chronicle.
- 5. The Illuminated Chronicle expands on commentary provided by other contemporary sources, observing that King Solomon not only sojourned en route in France but also ...
- 6. A wealth of information about King Solomon's flight to the the Holy Roman Empire is provided in the Illuminated Chronicle: chapter XXX, for example, notes that ...
- 7. The king's journey to the Holy Roman Empire is the focus of several chapters in the Illuminated Chronicle: chapter XXX, in particular, offers invaluable commentary on Solomon's ...
- 8. While King Solomon's travails en route to the the Holy Roman Empire are recorded in the Illuminated Chronicle, many present-day historians have argued that ...
  - Singora, thank you for your review and suggestions. I will try to modify the text, although it would be difficult, taking into account WP:NOR. Borsoka (talk) 03:19, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    - The deal, very simply, is that you can't use the construction "according to" 30 times in an article this size. The problem has nothing to do with original research. Your prose -- as it stands -- it sub-standard. Any reasonably competent newspaper, magazine or journal editor would throw it out. Singora (talk) 19:06, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'll check back tomorrow and perhaps offer more feedback.

Notes RE: Bibliography Singora (talk) 23:34, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

1. Just noticed that while all books show the publisher, none show the place of publication. This needs to be added.
- Yes, you are right. The place of publication is never shown. According to WP:CITE, the city of publication can be added, but it is only an option. I would prefer not to add. Borsoka (talk) 03:19, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - Go with the flow. Everyone else adds the place of publication. Singora (talk) 19:06, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    - Sorry, but I think that all sources cited can be identified based on the data provided in the "Sources" section. Providing additional information would not significantly improve the "user-friendliness" of the article. Borsoka (talk) 04:07, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
2. The The Deeds of the Princes of the Poles (Gesta principum Polonorum) is an early 12th century source. It's very old, but surely secondary rather than primary.
- I think The Deeds of the Princes of the Poles is clearly a primary source: it is a chronicle. Borsoka (talk) 03:19, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - You're wrong, but I won't argue. Seek clarification from a guy called JohnBod. He seems to understand these things. Singora (talk) 19:06, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Johnbod:, I would highly appreciate your comments on the above issue. Is The Deeds of the Princes of the Poles a primary source? Borsoka (talk) 04:07, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
3. A few references (the Illuminated Chronicle, for example) are not linked to the bibliography.
- Yes, none of the primary sources are linked to the bibliography. Primary sources can rarely be "forced" into the citation templates. In order to be consequent, I would avoid to link any of them. Borsoka (talk) 03:19, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - It's not about "forcing". Just use the correct templates. All citations can be linked to the bibliography. Singora (talk) 19:06, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    - I would be really grateful if you could provide an example. For instance, the Illuminated Chronicle looks especially problematic for me. Borsoka (talk) 04:07, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Notes RE: Structure Singora (talk) 23:34, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

1. I would encourage you to add a section entitled Historical sources. See, for example, Spanish conquest of Guatemala. You could use this section to introduce primary sources and acquaint readers with a few of the more scholarly secondary sources.

Thank you for your suggestion. My concern is that this section could easily be against WP:NOR. As far as I know there is no scholarly works dedicated to the historians who wrote of Ladislaus's life. I have no information of any scholarly works of the primary sources of Ladislaus's life either. Borsoka (talk) 03:19, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. I disagree, but good luck with your nomination. Singora (talk) 19:06, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

File:Béla_elnyeri_a_koronát.jpg is tagged as lacking source and author info
File:King_St._Ladislaus.jpg is claimed as own work, but also lists an author who is not the uploader
File:Derzs4.jpg is claimed as own work but the author is not the copyright holder
File:Laszlo-Coronation-ChroniconPictum.jpg needs a US PD tag (easiest just to change life+70 to life+100)
File:Zaruke_hrvatskog_kralja_Zvonimira_Celestin_Medović.JPG needs a US PD tag and is not own work
File:Hungary_11th_cent.png: where is this data from?
File:LaszloOradea.jpg needs a US PD tag and should also include the photographer's license
File:Szent_László_legenda_4.jpg needs a US PD tag. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:18, 26 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fakirbakir, can I seek your assistance? Köszönet. Borsoka (talk) 03:19, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment -- I'm afraid this review has stalled without sufficient commentary to determine consensus so will be archiving it shortly. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:25, 24 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been archived, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 02:26, 24 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.