Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ice shows produced by Yuzuru Hanyu/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 14 March 2023 [1].

Ice shows produced by Yuzuru Hanyu

Nominator(s): Henni147 (talk) 13:33, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the self-produced ice shows of Japanese figure skater and two-time Olympic champion Yuzuru Hanyu. With Prologue (2022) and Gift (2023), he challenged the concept of a solo ice show and became the first skater to perform at the Tokyo Dome, one of Japan's largest and most prestigious entertainment venues, in front of a record ice show audience of 35,000 spectators.

Notes:

This article is part of a larger series about Hanyu, with the sub-pages about his career achievements (FL in 2021) and Olympic seasons (FA in 2022) being already promoted to featured class in the last two years. Our author team has set up a task force page to coordinate the work on Hanyu's series with the goal to improve it to a featured topic.
The users Apqaria (talk · contribs), Marika yuzu (talk · contribs), and pep_on helped out with research and writing for this article. Marika-san was also present in the venues at multiple shows and uploaded pictures to Commons from those days.
All online sources have been archived at the Wayback Machine. The readable prose size of the article is currently 19 kB, and it is uniform in formatting with the Olympic seasons and career achievements sub-page (incl. the infobox and citation system). The tables for the shows Continues with Wings and Notte Stellata are planned to be expanded with the programs of the guest skaters as soon as reliable sources are available.
This article is not expected to be updated over the next months, with Hanyu being scheduled for other events until the end of June. It is uncertain how many shows he will produce in the next decade, but we structured the article in a way that it's flexible towards possible splits (in solo and ensemble shows for example).
This article was mentioned in the DYK column on the mainpage last month.

Henni147 (talk) 13:33, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Sorry. I am not satisfied the prose is at FA level. I made an edit to remove some redundancies [2], but there are other parts that are hard to understand ("challenged the concept of a solo ice show for the first time" and "with a duration of 90 minutes per day" - why per day?). I suggest and a fresh copy-edit focusing on redundancies and non-idiomatic expressions. Graham Beards (talk) 14:40, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Graham Beards: Thank you very much for your adjustments. Regarding your questions:

With the addition "per day", we wanted to clarify that shows which were held on more than one day like Prologue (five days in total), lasted 90 minutes per day, not in total. But if you feel that this is clear from the context, we can remove that info.
The concept of a solo or one-man ice show is uncharged territory in the sport of figure skating. Hanyu was very probably the first skater in history to produce a solo show of 90 minutes length or more, but there is no source that explicitely confirms it, so we decided to go with the wording "he challenged the concept of a solo ice show [for the first time in his career]". If this makes the wording more clear, I can add it to the article.

Could you name other cases of redundancies or idiomatic expressions? I will try to fix them all. Thank you very much. Henni147 (talk) 15:33, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your response. I think the "per day" is redundant, you would not say a Broadway show was a thousand or so hours long because there was more than one performance! If the solo show was uncharted territory, (you wrote "uncharged"), a better explanation is needed. I am not going to list all the issues I see, nor am I expected to do so by the FAC coordinators. It would be better for you to request a copy-edit by someone new to the article who can bring some strategic distance to the prose. I also suggest that you withdraw this nomination while this is done. Graham Beards (talk) 16:13, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Graham Beards: I apologize for the typo. If you feel that the prose text does not meet the required standards, I can ask for a copy-edit. How can I withdraw a nomination? Henni147 (talk) 16:22, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You can request a withdrawal on this page and a copy-edit here Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests. Graham Beards (talk) 16:27, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Graham Beards: Update: Before I request a withdrawal, I would be very grateful to hear your opinion about the latest changes I've made (to have a feedback if we are on the right way). That would be very helpful. I discussed the oppose with our author team, and we'd like to know in which aspects the article doesn't meet the FAC criteria in specific. Redundancies and idiomatic expressions alone should not justify an immediate oppose. Such issues can be fixed quickly. If there are any content-related questions, we will address those as well. Our team has been working relentlessly on this article since December, and this effort should not be in vain. Henni147 (talk) 20:25, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments I tend to agree that this article could benefit from a copyedit, preferably by someone who's not so close to the subject, and that it's not yet ready for FA promition, but I'd like to go on the record that this is yet another example of the higher scrutiny that figure skating articles and bios tend to go through. For example, the above request that Hanyu's importance and notability is explained isn't something that was expected of the ancillary articles about Michael Jordon. I suggest that when this article returns to FAC, that the nominators bring this up as an argument against the objection. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:46, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What request? I think you might mean the request below. Graham Beards (talk) 18:46, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

John M Wolfson

I'll have to agree with Graham here and also oppose. Your changes were largely unnecessary and besides Graham's points. More importantly, I don't know who Yuzuru Hanyu is, and besides two-time Olympic champion the article fails to explain his background appropriately. I know there is already an article on him, but I need to know who he is and what he's done in order to fully appreciate the significance of these works. I also don't see much in the way of how ice skating, Olympic or professional, works. Also, while the article mentions audience records, there's nothing on how the critics (if there even is such a thing in non-Olympic ice skating) received this foray. To be quite honest, I wouldn't even approve this for GA at this time. Best of luck in your future work with this! – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 00:51, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@John M Wolfson: Thank you very much for your feedback. Regarding Hanyu's background: Multiple skaters, news outlets, and other experts made the claim for him as the greatest and most complete (or well-rounded) figure skater in history. He was the first male single skater to win all major senior and junior titles and scored 19 world records in the course of his competitive career (amateur level). According to latest numbers from Google, he was the most searched winter sports athlete besides snowboarder Shaun White and the sixth most searched athlete across all sports in 2022. His following and economic impact are on an unprecedented scale for a niche sport like figure skating, and with his latest solo show Gift (professional level), he has elevated figure skating as a performing art form to the level of major rock pop concerts, which was long considered unthinkable. It is difficult to find typical ratings or information about grossings for that reason, but that doesn't make the accomplishment less notable. However, we can add more critical responses in- and outside Japan. That should be doable. I can also write an introductory "background" section with the information mentioned above, and I will take a closer look at the structure of comparable articles like The Fame Ball Tour as suggested by user Yolo4A4Lo. That being said, I will withdraw the nomination here and address all noted issues of the article, including a full copy-edit. Henni147 (talk) 08:20, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That all sounds wonderful! Can't wait to see this article when it's improved and back at FAC. – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 17:28, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawn as requested. Note that the usual two-week hiatus will apply.
Closing note: This candidate has been withdrawn, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:21, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.