Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Douglas Albert Munro/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 3 September 2019 [1].

Douglas Albert Munro

Nominator(s): Chetsford (talk) 04:09, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Douglas Albert Munro, the only member of the U.S. Coast Guard to receive the Medal of Honor and namesake of USCGC Munro, and several other American warships and military posts. Munro was killed in action during the Second Battle of the Matanikau. His uncle was Francis Fairey, a onetime member of the House of Commons of Canada. Munro is also the namesake of a very snappy, quick march. The article has passed GA, and recently passed A class review at the Military History WikiProject. My hope is to get this to Today's Featured Article in time for the 100th anniversary of his birth. Chetsford (talk) 04:09, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Nick-D

This article is in good shape. I have the following comments:

I'd suggest tweaking the second para of the lead to note what Munro's duties were at the time of his MoH action and death
"and had lived in Canada since age 8, " - the tense is unclear here
"The United States declared war on Japan on December 8, 1941" - as Pearl Harbor is also noted here, I don't think this is necessary
"landing craft tanks" - I think that the plural of landing craft tank is landing craft tank
Do we know how Munro went from being assigned to a communications station to commanding groups of small craft? There seems to be a fairly significant gap here. Nick-D (talk) 11:00, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Nick-D; these have all been updated but let me know if I missed anything. To point #5, I've expanded what I could based on available sources under the section "Guadalcanal campaign" but there's still a bit of a leap. Chetsford (talk) 17:20, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think that helps explain things. My comments are now addressed, and I'm pleased to support this nomination. Nick-D (talk) 10:20, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Alt text needs improvement - it should not be identical to the caption

(pictured) need not be included in an image caption when it is obvious what is pictured. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:00, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Nikkimaria. I've made these updates. Chetsford (talk) 21:12, 22 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sources review

No spotchecks carried out
All links to sources appear to be working, per the external links checker tool
Formats: these were quite thoroughly checked for consistency etc during the recent A-class review, and I can't see any other issues
Quality and reliability: The sources seem appropriately chosen and of the required standard to meet the FA criteria.

Brianboulton (talk) 19:16, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Excellent article that covers all the points I'd expect, and does so very well. There is one general point: is there any chance you could slim down on the number of "Munro"s you use? With 143 in a relatively short article, I feel like I've been hit round the head by them a little! For example, in the Youth, schooling section there are 14, six of which are in the second paragraph, despite Munro being the only person referred to.

That's being really picky though, and I'm happy this meets the FA criteria. Cheers – SchroCat (talk) 12:27, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

SchroCat - thanks for both your support and your comment! I agree with your point. Now that I reread the article with this in mind, it jumps out at me, too. I'm glad you mentioned this as I don't think I would have seen it otherwise. I'll work through cutting down on some of these today. Chetsford (talk) 12:33, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator notes

I've had this on the Urgents list for a while, but it will need to be archived soon if it does not receive some more attention. --Laser brain (talk) 11:17, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Chetsford: Status on addressing the recent volley of comments? Also, Ian Rose, do you think you'll have time to review? --Laser brain (talk) 15:55, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Laser_brain - sorry, I'm just finishing them up in sandbox now and will implement them all within the next 30 minutes. Chetsford (talk) 16:40, 29 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Ian

I'll recuse coord duties to review... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:32, 16 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry it took a while to get back here...

Why is the term "reportedly" used on several occasions -- is there doubt about the information being related? If opinions, it might be better to attribute inline (e.g. "according to...") than use "reportedly".
Spotchecking FN17c, I couldn't find anything to support "NOB Cactus is the only known instance of a naval operating base led by a Coast Guard officer.", in fact I couldn't see mention of Cactus at all, at least not on p. 14.
Other sources spotchecked (FNs 3k, 8c, 21c, 21d, 23, 25, 42) seem to support the text.
Happy with the level of detail and the prose (let me know any concerns with my copyedit). As usual, I'll take Nikki's and Brian's image and source reviews as read.

Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 15:59, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ian Rose - thanks for the review. I've corrected the source which, I think, accidentally got modified out during a previous review, and deleted two of the "reportedly"s which were superfluous and not necessitated by the text. Chetsford (talk) 16:16, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tks, happy to support. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 16:22, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA-5

Claim my seat here. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 22:14, 17 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

James Munro, was born in California as James Wilkins Link California.
ultimately settling in South Cle Elum, Washington Are we speaking about the State or D.C.? And if it is D.C. then standardise it with adding D.C. after the city.
ship-to-shore communication.[4]:95-96 --> "ship-to-shore communication.[4]:95–96".
Established on August 9 by Coast Guard --> "Established on August 9, by Coast Guard".
the Coast Guard Good Conduct Medal, the American Defense Service Medal, the American Campaign Medal, the Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal (with one battle star), and the World War II Victory Medal, most posthumously Are there articles for all these medals?
On September 27, United States Marine Corps Add the before the United States.
and the marines was cut after You mean were?
the landing craft were instructed You mean was?
Munro's death, during which three volleys Three volleys needs an hyphen.

That's anything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 19:42, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much for this review, CPA-5. I've updated everything per your suggestions, with two notes, but let me know if I missed anything. The two notes were - #8 I kept as "were" as "landing craft" in this instance is plural instead of singular, #2 refers to the city of Cle Elum in the State of Washington, not the city of Washington in the District of Columbia. Chetsford (talk) 03:27, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Chetsford: Could you please link the first Washington State and unlink the second one in the article?

CPA-5 done! Chetsford (talk) 16:10, 20 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Great to hear that, support. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 11:43, 21 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Vanamonde

I see this hasn't received much attention. I will try to be quick, feel free to ping me if necessary. Vanamonde (Talk) 02:24, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Link to Vancouver should be moved to its first appearance
I think "American Legion" could use a gloss
The article on cheerleading doesn't actually discuss the term "yell king", so perhaps a gloss there, too?
Do we know what he studied in college?
Is there a reason "USCGC" and "USS" aren't included within the links to ship names?
Can you find a link for "amphibious operations"?
Can you explain where Lunga Point is? I haven't the faintest clue.
"The downed aircrew was rescued by a flying boat" This doesn't make it clear whether Munro et al actually found the aircraft (or was it's position already known)?
A location for Matanikau river would also be helpful, especially because the link, rather confusingly, goes to Actions_along_the_Matanikau. I'd also suggest moving the piped link from "Matanikau river" to "attack the flank of Japanese positions"; this is less easter egg-y
The second paragraph of "Second Battle of the Matanikau and death" strikes me as too detailed, given that it doesn't involve Munro at all. Can it be pruned a little?
Guadalcanal is again, so far as I can tell, not linked.
Can you link and gloss "medal of honor" at its first use in the body?
Does "personal life" really need three paragraphs? Surely you could condense them into one, in the order 1-3-2?
Link/explain "ship's sponsor."
What is a "lighted flagpole", and why is it any different from a regular with respect to allowing a flag to stay up all night?
"most posthumously" This is confusing; do we not know when each medal was awarded? If not, perhaps at least break that off into a separate sentence.

That's all I have for now; a brief article, but so far as I can tell there's no obvious holes in coverage. More details of his training period would be nice, but I can see why they may be hard to get hold of. Vanamonde (Talk) 03:58, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much for the review, Vanamonde. I made all these updates with two notes, but please let me know if you see I missed something. The two notes were regarding the history of male cheerleaders and flagpole lighting protocol. I actually included brief descriptions of each in the notes section (they were originally in the body but were moved to notes during the A-class review), but LMK if you think I should move them back to the body. Chetsford (talk) 17:24, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support, as most of my concerns have been addressed, and the two others are minor. @Chetsford:; I apologize if I was ambiguous; but with respect to ship names, what I was expecting to see was [[USS McCawley (APA-4)|USS ''McCawley'']], rather than [[USS]] ''[[USS McCawley (APA-4)|McCawley]]'' (for example). I missed the footnotes, somehow, apologies; I think for the flagpole, it's fine in the footnote; for the yell king, might be nicer to just have "yell king, or male cheerleader" in the body. I'm supporting anyway, as these are not crucial concerns. Vanamonde (Talk) 18:39, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, misunderstood! I've updated the ship names and added body text explaining what a yell king is. Chetsford (talk) 04:48, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support comments by Pendright

Lede:

During the Guadalcanal Campaign, Munro was assigned to Naval Operating Base Cactus at Lunga Point, where small boat operations were coordinated.

Consider the definite article the before Naval Operations Base Catctus.
Link small boat operations

He died of a gunshot wound at the age of 22 while using the Higgins boat he was piloting to shield from Japanese fire a landing craft filled with marines.

Consider something like this: He died of a gunshot wound at the age of 22, while using the Higgins boat he was piloting to shield a landing craft filled with marines from Japanese fire.

Incidentally, I made the same suggested fix, though without a comma, when copyediting. Just noticed the suggestion here, so thought I'd mention it. Vanamonde (Talk) 17:11, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

My apology – I’ll continue when all of your comments have been addressed. Pendright (talk) 19:53, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Link Higgins boat Pendright (talk) 04:41, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Many ships and buildings have been named after Munro, ...

Does many mean large numbers?

Pause here - Pendright (talk) 03:44, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks much for the review. I've made all these updates with one note / question ... the sources do not use a definitive article in front of NOB Cactus, do you think we should insert it anyway? Chetsford (talk) 04:50, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The call is yours to make. Consider all of your comments addressed to this point. Now that the above review is completed, I’ll be continuing my review. Pendright (talk) 08:02, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Youth and schooling:

Munro and his shipmate Raymond Evans were known as the "Gold Dust Twins", so-called because they were inseparable.

Remove the quotation marks around the Gold Dust Twins and link it.

Family:

By age eight, he had moved to Canada, his divorced mother having remarried a Canadian citizen whose surname he took.

Consider removing the comma after eight and replacing the comma after Canada with a semicolon, resulting in two clean, closely related, indepndent causes.

Youth:

His father repatriated his family from Canada to the United States in 1922, ultimately settling in South Cle Elum, Washington, ...

Is ultimately esential?

In youth, Munro showed a high level of musical aptitude, mastering percussion, trumpet, and harmonica.

consider adding his after in and removing the comma after youth.

<>The thought will be complete omly when the comma after youth is deleted. Pendright (talk)

He performed in a drum and bugle corps sponsored by the war veterans' organization the American Legion, the Sons of the American Legion Drum and Bugle Corps, eventually becoming the corps' drill master.

Does "war veterans' organization" refer to the American Legion?

If it does, it seems redundant,
If it does not, then it should be followed by a comma.

At Central Washington College of Education, Munro was a yell king, or a male cheerleader.

It would read better in the active voice:

Munro was a yell king (a male cheerleader) at the Central Washington College of Education.

In 1939, with the threat of war growing, Munro decided to withdraw from Central Washington College of Education and enlist in the military.

Consider changing CW College of Education to

just college, and replace military with the USCG?

He spent most of his last night in Cle Elum with his friend Marion "Mike" Cooley, with whom, according to Munro's biographer Gary Williams, he had been "almost inseparable" since childhood.

Comsider a comma after biographer.
Would they fit better than he after Gary Williams?

Munro underwent entrance processing in Seattle, during which he met and became friends ...

Consider this: Munro underwent the U.S. Coast Guard's entrance processing in Seattle, Washington, where he met and became friends ...

Munro would spend the rest of his Coast Guard career with Evans and the pair became known to shipmates by the moniker "the Gold Dust Twins".

Consider replaceing moniker with "the nickname of"

Guadalcanal Campaign:

In mid-1941, prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor, and the United States Department of the Treasury transferred authority for the Coast Guard to the United States Navy.

Consider this: In mid-1941, with tensions with Japan on the rise, the U.S. government began emergency mobilization, and transferred the Coast Guard from the Department of the Treasury to the Department of the Navy. (By law, it was the president’s legal right to do so - the

Treasury Department had no say in the matter.)

Munro and Evans volunteered for reassignment to the attack transport USS Hunter Liggett, which was being outfitted and manned by the Coast Guard as part of preparations for War Plan Orange.

Or did - Munro and Evans volunteer for reassignment to the attack transport [service and were assigned to] USS Hunter Liggett, ...
Link "attack transport"
Is War Plan Orange relatd to the above comment,"the government began emergency mobilization" ... If it is, should they be tied together in some way?

Cross-trained as both a coxswain and a signalman...

Link signalman.

Pause here, back soon! Pendright (talk) 01:32, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Except for the item marked <>, all of the comments to this point have been addressed. Pendright (talk) 06:02, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Naval operating Base:

Following the Allied victory at Tulagi and Gavutu–Tanambogo, Munro and Evans were among Navy and Coast Guard personnel who staffed Naval Operating Base (NOB) Cactus at Lunga Point on the northern coast of Guadalcanal, which served as a communication hub between land forces and offshore vessels.

This is a 47 word sentence - consider breaking it up into two sentences.
After among, change to read "Coast Guard and Navy".

Established on August 9, by Coast Guard Commander Dwight Dexter, NOB Cactus is the only known instance of a naval operating base led by a Coast Guard officer.

This sentence would benefit if rewritten in the active voice.

The second battle of:

... among them Navy coxswain Samuel B. Roberts, who had been mortally wounded while using his landing craft to draw Japanese fire from the marines.

Considing adding "was" between them and Navy
Consider adding "away" between fire and from

... Monssen opened fire on the Japanese positions with her 5-inch (127 mm) guns

Add caliber before guns

As Munro's boats approached the recovery points they came under heavy fire from Japanese forces that had ccupied a ridge abandoned by the marines.

Consider this: As the boats under Munro's charge approached the recovery points, they came under heavy fire from Japanese forces at a ridge abandoned by the marines.

Munro used a .30 caliber machine gun aboard his landing craft to direct suppressing fire against the Japanese positions as the other boats recovered the American forces.

When the word "boats" is used (throughout much of the artile) it seems to be in a generic sense, whether for a landing craft, a Higgins boast, or a LCT? Both the Higgins boat and LCT are landing crafts, but one is used to carry men and the other tanks. While linking makes this distinction, it doesn’t seem to be woven anywhere into the article itself.

Munro was struck by incoming Japanese rounds and lost consciousness.

Consider replacing rounds with gunfire.

First burial:

In a letter to James Munro, Hurlbut described Munro's grave as being marked by a wooden cross constructed by Evans.

Identfy Hurlbut as ...?

News of death and:

According to Williams, the public details of Munro's actions were first chronicled in the Seattle Times on October 15, 1942 ...

Identfy Williams as Munro's biographer.

A memorial service was held on November 1 at the Holy Nativity Episcopal Church in South Cle Elum, with sentries and a cordon of honor outside the church provided by a combination of Washington State Guard and volunteers from the American Legion.

Consider this: A memorial service was held on November 1 at the Holy Nativity Episcopal Church in South Cle Elum. The Washington State Guard and American Legion volunteers provided sentries and a cordon of honor outside the church.

Colonel Puller nominated Munro for the Medal of Honor, the highest U.S. personal military decoration, possibly at the suggestion of Commander Dexter.

Identfy the positions held by Colonial Puller and Commander Dexter and the military branches they represented.

General comments:

May I ask why it is necessary to have so many section and sub-section headings.

Finished - Pendright (talk) 20:26, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pendright - sorry for my delay and thank you for the review. I think I got everything but please let me know if something was missed. Best - Chetsford (talk) 15:23, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Chetsford: All comments have been sufficiently addressed. I support this nomination. Pendright (talk) 19:58, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. --Laser brain (talk) 14:22, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.