User talk:Zello

/Archive 1

Slovak loanwords in Hungarian=

Tankred just reverted the Slovak article to include the long-winded list from before (as I strongly suspected he would do.) This sensitivity and instant revert was the main reason why I included some Slavonic loanwords in my edit. I know what you're trying to say by not going into great detail about Slavonic loanwords in Hungarian and removing my examples from the article, but I felt that my way would at least give even less justification to people like Tankred to belabour the point of Slovak's supposedly major contribution to Hungarian culture. As it is, I can see a mini edit-war going on, since we have an all-or-nothing approach where people like Tankred insist on a long-winded list while you insist on having no list at all. As a non-Slovak and non-Hungarian, can't we all just compromise and put short lists showing both directions? As it was before, my shortened list provided a nice balance to your short list, so it wouldn't look like one side was trying to overwhelm the other. Vput (talk) 14:48, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Tankred not even bothers to give some explanation for his revert. He never said that he will be contented with your shorter list. But the shorter list is still surplus information in the article, compromising its concision. And I don't think that I always have to take into consideration the phobias of some Slovak users who trying to prove their ethnic superiority even when they are writing about their own mother language. Is it necessary to give a list in the Geography of Slovakia article about the lowness of Hungarian mountains? Is it a good compromise to mention 2-3 Hungarian hills only for comparison? Isn't this absurd? Zello (talk) 17:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I know what you mean, but as someone who is unable to favour Slovaks over Hungarians and vice-versa, I believe that the only way to acheive some kind of stability in this article is to make a compromise. The example with the mountains may not be the best way to think of this language dispute. As someone who doesn't come from the Carpathian Basin, I am a little turned-off by a language article that has a tag for a neutrality dispute. If I were interested in the language and its structure, I wouldn't want to be dragged into watching a bunch of nationalists arguing over whose word is whose and constantly reverting the article unless there were grave errors in explaining grammar, morphology, syntax or lexicon. The Serbo-Croatian article suffers from a similar problem but to an even greater degree as we have Serbs, Croats and Bosnians using the language's article and its talk-page to criticize each other and act out non-linguistic rivalries. The thing is that mountains change "ownership" because of political or military decisions as it's a matter of one group of people invading or laying claim to that territory. Lexicons can change less deliberately and all speakers from erudite scholars to humble farmers can incorporate new words and structures as they see fit. Thus we could argue that pasting a list showing the sheer number of Slavonic loanwords in Hungarian could be interpreted that Hungarians were somehow culturally inferior in being copycats since they had to borrow a lot of Slavonic words. The presence of geographical features such as which country has higher mountains or cleaner forests can't lead to the same conclusion about cultural sophistication. Vput (talk) 18:26, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

It is possible that Hungarians in the 10th century were culturally inferior in many ways than Slavs. What does it matter? Linguistics is not a question of national pride. Anybody can add as a long list of Slavic loanwords to the Hungarian language article as possible. But the same list in the Slovak language article was only meant to prove this superiority theory and contained no information about the topic, the Slovak language itself. It is simply out of place. Comparison for the sake of comparison. Zello (talk) 21:07, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikiproject Hungary

It seems that such a wikiproject will be formed in the near future discussion is at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Hungary. Any input you might have would be valuable there. Hobartimus (talk) 14:02, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

hi

Wikipedia:WikiProject Hungary page is now set up. Hope you will be active now :) Even if you're not intrested in the project currently your work on articles is always great. Hobartimus (talk) 15:46, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

My work on articles is random and casual depending on my free time and changing interests. I added my name because some of my edits are probably classified as belonging to the scope of the project, like my present additions to the Budapest articles. Zello (talk) 17:11, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

photography

Good evening. I saw some of your photographs and I was wondering if you would be interested in selling me or letting me use the rights to your photo of the Chiesa di SS. Luca and Martina. I'm a researcher, and I'm doing a web project on Rome. If you could leave a message on my talk page or email me, I would appreciate it. Many thanks in advance. --KeithatET (talk) 23:49, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Cluj

Hello. A group of editors is trying to raise Cluj-Napoca to the FA level but we'd like some advice on a point. In this section I'd prefer to cut the part beginning "Yet, more recently, the 2008 National Day of Hungarians..." for the reasons outlined here (see the paragraph starting "I suggest cutting the whole Lészai Lehel/Noua Dreaptă part...") Your opinion would be appreciated; thank you. Biruitorul (talk) 01:30, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Nigger

Hi!

You added the following sentence to Nigger on 2007-08-04:

"The Hungarian néger refered to black Africans without any negative connotations until the 1990s when its meaning changed under English influence."

Why do you believe that its meaning has changed? I am not familiar with Budapest slang, but as someone living in Transylvania, I have never associated any negative meanings with "néger". "Nigger" is usually translated as "nigger" (not "néger") in literary works. "Néger" is commonly being used in television, newspapers, and books. It is very misleading to state that today this word is considered offensive. When badmouthing someone, some people tend to ascribe all his/her faults to him/her being different (e.g. "stupid German" or "stupid 'néger'"), and today Hungarians have greater opportunities for meeting black people (and consequently for badmouthing them). But this does not mean that the meaning of the word has changed. BarroColorado (talk) 16:29, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Mainstream Hungarian media almost never uses the word today, you won't find it in newspapers, television etc. It is used only by older or lower class people or somebody with a political agenda, mainly as a sign of refusal the politically correct speech. As professional journalist (working in Budapest) I would never use the word, and my editors would certainly delete it if I did. The connotation changed in the past decades. In Transylvania the original meaning probably remained stronger and the change hasn't happened yet. Zello (talk) 21:53, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

request

Do you know how to create a stub/subcategory in Hungarian history? I would like to create "Sources of Hungarian History" or similar. The list would be from Anonymus...==> Sambucus, Baranyai Decsi Janos, etc as list of articles

Grazie,--Vargatamas (talk) 16:41, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Re: Frumuşeni

I would like to discuss with you why I think the claim about the Frumuşeni mosaics in the zellige article improbable or a misunderstanding of the source:

- Huge physical distance: the zellige article claims that zellige appeared in Morocco in the 10th century. Frumuşeni is in present-day Romania, near the Hungarian border. Direct influence seems highly improbable between these two distant regions. Far more plausible to search the source of inspiration in the Middle East or Spain which had strong ties in trade with Morocco.

- Low importance: Frumuşeni doesnt't belong to the great mosaic works of art, it has some local and scientific importance because of its northern location and singularity but it's not on a par with the great mosaics of Constantinople, Venice, Sicily or Damascus. I can't imagine how this poor little northern monastery could be the source of this highly important Islamic art tradition.

- Dating and art school of the Frumuşeni mosaics are controversial. Although some sources claim that they are Byzantine and belong to the 9-10th century the majority opinion is that they were made only in the 12th century for the Catholic Bizere Monastery. Even the existence of the earlier Orthodox monastery remained unproven while Bizere certainly existed. In this case (ie. they are western works from the 12th century) zellige simply predates the Frumuşeni mosaics so they can't be the source of inspiration.

I think you should look up again the source. I can imagine that the author drew comparison between the artistic style of zellige and the Frumuşeni mosaics but in this case you should cite here the whole paragraph so we can establish its real meaning. Zello (talk) 20:30, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi Zello. I am sorry for this late reply. I have to agree with you since your points are far more clearer than my weak source. I am removing the sentence from the article. Thanks for your concerns and, of course, your patience. Much appreciated. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 17:27, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Rollback

Zello, would you like me to add rollback to your account? I see you have expressed a desire to do so by reverting vandalism with the currently slow version, undo. Rollback is much faster, but you must only use it in cases of reverting vandalism. Regards, Rudget 13:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, thank you very much indeed! Zello (talk) 14:04, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

 Done If you ever need any help, just ask. :) Regards, Rudget 14:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

DYK: Early Byzantine mosaics in the Middle East

Hi. I've nominated Early Byzantine mosaics in the Middle East, an article you worked on, for consideration to appear on the Main Page as part of Wikipedia:Did you know. You can see the hook for the article at Template talk:Did you know#Articles created/expanded on June 30, where you can improve it if you see fit. If you can add more references to the article, that would be great! Thanks, PFHLai (talk) 20:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome, Zello. You've made a good start with the article and it deserves the spotlight on MainPage. We need more good new articles like that in Wikipedia. Keep typing and have fun!  :-) --PFHLai (talk) 22:53, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Early Byzantine mosaics in the Middle East

On 6 July, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Early Byzantine mosaics in the Middle East, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 07:23, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Names

WP:NCGN says:

Relevant foreign language names (one used by at least 10% of sources in the English language OR is used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place) are permitted and should be listed in alphabetic order of their respective languages

That's why I gave the reference for Hungarians living there, that makes the name relevant. Squash Racket (talk) 15:48, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

We don't have to prove village by village that Hungarians lived somewhere in the past. The whole area of the KoH was inhabited by Hungarians (somewhere there were many of them, somewhere less, of course) and every topographical feature had an OFFICIAL Hungarian name. Asking for references to the obvious is Svetovid's game and quite malicious one. What next? Will he delete every Hungarian name that he feels "irrelevant"? Zello (talk) 19:10, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

You can explain how you see this here. Squash Racket (talk) 03:37, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Zello, I would rather have alternative names in the lead, Slovak editors were pushing for that solution. I don't mind having that arrangement, but only if it applies to all the cities including Slovak ones. Squash Racket (talk) 16:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that the worst way to deal with nationalist users is to follow their standards. I would vote for maintaining the present minority-friendly lead format of the Hungarian articles even in the unlikely case that Hungarian names are deleted everywhere. Zello (talk) 16:36, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

If we would be "minority-friendly", we would have German, Hebrew/Yiddish and Romani versions of the name in the lead of Hungarian articles, not Turkish or Serbian ones. In the case of Pécs we are rather talking about historical names than those used by minorities.

I think having the Turkish name of Pécs is a little bit overkill even in the Name section. Squash Racket (talk) 16:55, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Overkill for a city which was under Ottoman rule for 150 years and it boasts many mosques as its most important monuments? I don't think so. Minority names and historical names are equally important. By the way I repaired the damage that User:194.160.75.10 caused who was identified as a probable sockpuppet of MarkBa and blocked. Zello (talk) 17:01, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Zello, I have blocked Svetovid for one month, for his edit-warring. However, it takes two to edit war, so I would like you to try and change your own behavior as well. For example, it was not good to revert Svetovid's change as "vandalism".[1] The word "vandal" is only for very bad cases, such as blanking a page or inserting profanity. What you and Svetovid had was a "content dispute". See also WP:VANDAL#NOT. Also, when disagreeing about something at an article, it is not good to just edit war. Better is to explain your concerns at the article talkpage. Lastly, when someone removes information from an article, it is not a good idea to add it back, unless you have a source which allows for the information to be verified. In the case of Hungarian names, just providing a source that shows that a name is used in Hungarian, is not enough. Per WP:NCGN, it is better to provide a source which either shows that the name is used in English sources, or that there is a significant Hungarian population living in that area which uses that name. In the future, as long as you are careful to always provide sources, per WP:V and WP:RS, it will help to reduce problems and make your edits "stick". Thanks, Elonka 17:38, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I understand your concern about edit warring. But you should realise also that until now adding Hungarian names in the former area of the KoH was not seen as problematic and didn't need such precautions. No serious Romanian or Slovak users deleted them as "irrelevant" like Svetovid did. There were serious debates about their usage in historical context and infoboxes with Juro, Tankred, Panonian but even they accepted their presence in the lead (or in Vojvodina's case in the Names section) without problem, not to mention Romanian users who are generally friendly and helpful. In Central-European topics deleting alternative names was generally seen as trolling not "content dispute" (except of course when the names are not verifiable as sometimes happens but in really rare cases). Zello (talk) 17:53, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I understand that this has been an ongoing problem for quite awhile. However, it is not helpful to refer to another editor's changes as "vandalism" or "trolling". Trolling is defined as "deliberate attempts to disrupt the project". I do not believe that Svetovid was doing that. --Elonka 18:19, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

help

Hello, could you help on article History of Transylvania‎ an anomymus reverting every day teh pictures of Bethlen Gabor and put the Mihail Vitezaiuel there, who actually joined the war as a Hapsburg mercenary and robbed the territory for two years, while the other contributed a lot. I reverted two times, but it happens every Thkns

--Vargatamas (talk) 07:33, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Be careful with 3RR, unfortunately your rewording Abdulka's addition could also be considered a revert. Squash Racket (talk) 05:09, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

A totally different paragraph, different topic and different user? Hm... Zello (talk) 11:21, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Same article, same day. Read the rule, that was just a good faith warning. Squash Racket (talk) 03:11, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Notability of Manó Kogutowicz

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Help request

Hello,

We recently put up a page on Janos Boros, the Hungarian politician from Kolozsvar and ex-vice mayor. But this has been notified by some users on Wiki for deletion. If they had asked us to improve the text, we would have happily obliged. But they are attacking the very credentials of the personality saying that his profile does not comply with neither WP:POLITICIAN nor WP:GNG. They also propose deletion as they see this page as a means to aggrandise Janos Boros. We searched the wiki for other vice mayors from Romania, to see if ex-vice mayors of Roamnian city councils and ex-vice presidents of political parties deserve and have their pages. Many of them, both ex and present have wiki pages dedicated to them. If these Romanian vice mayors can have their pages on wiki, while they some of them have not even served terms in office half of what Mr. Boros did, why not a page for Janos Boros? We are in the process of re-writing the page, as we agree with the critics that the page was poorly written. But outright request for deletion will be a biased one and unfair to our effort. If you find time, your help would be most welcome and appreciated.

Warm Regards,

Kiran Vasudeva Hangakiran (talk) 21:22, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Welcome Back

Please stick around - we are in interesting times. Separately, it seems one of your old friends is also back under a different name! István (talk) 05:48, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Hungarian names of Romanian places

Hi, I have been working on Hungarian related settlements in Tranylvania, at least until now. I knew that in 2007 there was a kind of compromise with Romanian editors at the Odorhei/Székelyudvarhely discussion page and you were a part of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Odorheiu_Secuiesc

I worked in compliance with the compromise reached there i.e. if Hungarian population is more than 20%, the Hungarian name should be bolded in the lead.

As of 23rd, March 2010 User: Iadrian yu deleted all bolded Hungarian names from the articles of the Szekler counties and when I reverted, he started an incident case and as a result of it, the admin ruled that the 2007 compromise is not valid anymore. The change was supported by 3 editors , 2 out of them with account created only days before. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive605 (decision by admin Mjroots)

What do you think about this? I see many of the settlements were originally edited by you? If no one shares my opinion or no one believes that a positive result can be achieved, I do not want to spend time on it, I have already spent days, in vain Rokarudi--Rokarudi 13:49, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

That's always the same story. In 2007 a group of moderate, respected Romanian and Hungarian editors were able to reach a good compromise which lasted for 3 years, a long time for wikipedia standards. I still think that was a generous, European solution but obviously new warriors are coming who are eager to "win" again the old wars. I hope you will have the time and energy to convince other Romanian editors and other admins to help you because that's the only way to preserve the achievements. I don't know whether those Romanians who worked for the compromise are active now or left wikipedia. I can't really help you because I only do small maintenance work and sometimes add a bit of uncontroversial information to articles (generally not related to Hungarian or Romanian topics). Although I didn't left the project I can't spend too much time here because of my increased workload. But in case of voting drop me a line here. Zello (talk) 14:41, 31 March 2010 (UTC) Thank you very much for the advice and encouragement. Rokarudi--Rokarudi 17:02, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Egyptian wine

Hello Zello. Look here for relevant images for this nice article :) --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 11:57, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template: Mureş County

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Tributaries of Mureş River (Romanian and Hungarian names)

Template: Tributaries of Mureş River (Romanian and Hungarian names) has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you.--Rokarudi

You are now a Reviewer

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Naming conventions

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Talk:Buda Castle

hi there Zello,

have you been able to think about nominating the article Buda Castle for a review. Please see the talk page Talk:Buda Castle. Cheers. Gryffindor (talk) 08:41, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Info: vote for federation or confederation

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Wren's Churches

You've done a terrific job! Now can I suggest that you move all the pictures to the left, because the it puts them adjacent to their name, and makes them easier to identify. It's also the usual way in which such pages are laid out. See List of Ancient Greek temples. A bit more info and you could put it up for DYK. ASAP. Amandajm (talk) 02:20, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the advice! I will do it but I should complete the list at first. It's still a lot of work because of uploading and categorizing the missing pictures in the commons. Zello (talk) 09:02, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

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Hungarian revolution of 1848

Segíthetnél rendbeszedni a cikket. Különösen a Military events szekciót kellene röviden tömören, de átfogóan megszerkeszteni. Ha ez megvan a "Hungarian revolution of 1848" cikkben, azután kellene majd két külön bővebb új wiki cikket nyittani a Téli és a Tavaszi hadjáratról is. Több magyar wiki szerkesztő között kellene felosztani a feladatot.

Válaszodat előre is köszönöm!--Bwatzuk (talk) 16:46, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

szia, sajnos én ilyen szervezett munkára nem vagyok alkalmas. néha, amikor kedvem van, belevágok vmibe, és saját szórakozásomra megcsinálom, de ezek általában nem is magyar témák. Zello (talk) 18:31, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

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Europe 10,000 Challenge invite

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Ways to improve Ernest Zmeták Art Gallery

Hi, I'm Mduvekot. Zello, thanks for creating Ernest Zmeták Art Gallery!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Please add references to independent, reliable sources.

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Mduvekot (talk) 02:23, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Re: File:Our Lady and St. John of Nepomuk R. C. church. Interior ID 3829. Baroque pulpit with statues. (N). - 2, János Lane Downtown, Székesfehérvár, Fejér County, Hungary.JPG

Hello Zello! Feltöltöttem egy másik képet. Remélem így rendben van. - - Globetrotter19 (talk) 11:40, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Szia! Látom, hogy feltöltöttél egy új képet de ez így nem a legszerencsésebb megoldás. Az új fotó feltöltése funkció arra való hogy ugyanazt a képet töltsd fel újra de jobb minőségben, vagy más képkivágással stb. Most a szószék helyére lett feltöltve a szolnoki ház fotója, és így kialakult egy redirect a régi fájlnévnél. Ez nem katasztrófa de tisztább megoldás lett volna hagyni hogy töröljék a szószék bemozdult fotóját, és ezt a szolnokit egyszerűen feltölteni új képként. Igazából ezt már sztem ne bolygassuk meg újra, csak a következő alkalmakra mondom.Zello (talk) 14:41, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

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Ways to improve Assumption of the Virgin (Cerasi Chapel)

Thanks for creating Assumption of the Virgin (Cerasi Chapel).

A New Page Patroller Vexations just tagged the page as having some issues to fix, and wrote this note for you:

The Italian article has some sources. Do you think you could add some of those, or use them to rewrite the article?

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Vexations (talk) 20:59, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

@Vexations: Thank you for your kindness. I plan to improve the article as my time allows, it is part of my ongoing work on the pages related to the Basilica of Santa Maria del Popolo which were all written in the past few years. At the moment my primary goal was to separate it from the Prado painting with the creation of its own stub because the previous solution was awkward and misleading. Zello (talk) 21:05, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

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Ways to improve Tiberio Cerasi

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Közterületnevek kategóriái a Commonson

Szia! Lecseréltem egy tér kategóriát itt,-ahogy Te is itt, egy szerkesztő szerint ez önkényes. Az szerkesztő közösségi vitát inditott. Esetleg hozzá tudnál szólni? - - Globetrotter19 (talk) 12:56, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

A szavazásnál hozzászóltam. Zello (talk) 18:38, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

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Church of Saint Demetrius, Budapest moved to draftspace

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Church of Saint Demetrius, Budapest has been accepted

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Upper Őrség contributions

I came across your extensive contributions to the Upper Őrség article, though found that much of the information therein did not have specific inline citations. I would be very curious to read more about the topics you added, particularly regarding phonological shifts. Would you please be able to provide some sources or further reading on these matters?

Thanks. Gkerecs (talk) 12:37, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

The dialect examples came from Imre Samu: Felsőőri tájszótár, practically the only book describing the peasant language of the area. Unfortunately, at time I did not give proper citations when I added content to Wikipedia (it was almost twenty years ago) and I can't find the book now to look up the page numbers. 13:17, 11 September 2024 (UTC) Zello (talk) 13:17, 11 September 2024 (UTC)