This is an archive of past discussions about User:Zachary crimsonwolf. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
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The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXIV - May 2008
The May 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. SteveCrossinBot (talk) 08:26, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
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Newpage
I've written the page about Yu Nakajima please tell me what i could improve on and please add some stuff for me because for some reason my computer's anti-virus has blocked me from going to 90% of the sites I go to. Perseus101
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The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue XXV - June 2008
The June 2008 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. SteveBot(owner)05:27, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Shannara
Hi! I saw that you were a very helpful member on the Shannara WikiProject at one point in time....so would you like to come and help me out at the Shannara task force? (this is what the WikiProject became). I can't go it alone!!! See Portal: Shannara...that took me for EVER. =) Thank you in advance!
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A discussion
An important discussion on Should WikiProjects get prior approval of other WikiProjects (Descendant or Related or any ) to tag articles that overlaps their scope ? is open here . We welcome you to participate and give your valuable opinions. You are receiving this note as you are a member of WikiProject Council -- TinuCherian (Wanna Talk?) - 12:45, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
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Signpost updated for July 28, August 9, 11 and 18, 2008.
Please do not edit my user page....lol, just kidding. Thanks for doing that. =) I hate typos...I must've tried to type it too fast. the_ed1714:03, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
You know what's sad? I have almost the same problem--I do own Sword, but my friend had it at his house back home!! =) Thanks for agreeing to help. Good day! the_ed1717:13, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
WikiProject Novels is currently holding a roll call, which we hope to have annually. Your username is listed on the members list, but we are unsure as to which editors are still active within the project. If you still consider yourself an active WP:Novels editor, please add your name back to the Active Members list. Also feel free to join any of our task forces and take a look at the project's Job Centre to get involved!
The members list is currently under review so we have moved all past active member's name to a Incumbent List and are doing a Project Roll Call. If you still consider yourself an active WP:NOVELS editor, please add your name back to the Active Members List. You may also wish to add your name to any of our many Project Task Forces.
Devil May Care, written by Sebastian Faulks ("writing as Ian Fleming"), has become Penguin Books fastest selling hardcover fiction title. It is the latest installment in the book series about British secret agent James Bond and was released to coincide with the 100th anniversary of late Bond creator Ian Fleming's birthday on May 28, 1908.
Me Cheeta: the Autobiography, written by a ghostwriter, is the autobiography of Cheeta the Chimp who is listed in the Guinness World Records as the oldest recorded non-human primate at the age of 76. He has appeared in various movie roles which included twelve Tarzan movies and even battled addiction to alcohol and cigars. The book is not published until October 1, but judges for the 2008 Guardian First Book Award were sent a early version and were so impressed that they have included it on the 10-strong longlist.
Stephenie Meyer, who is listed by Time magazine as one of its 100 most influential people of 2008, has decided not to continue with writing her draft for Midnight Sun after 12 chapters of the unfinished manuscript were leaked on the internet.
Current debates
Categories for Discussion has a series of discussions about whether to categorize certain specific types of fictional characters: double agents, dictators, characters with eidetic memory, etc. Advice from any Novels project members would be valuable in assisting them.
WikiProject Media franchises aims to help editors with the coordination of articles within the thousands of media franchises which exist and has requested input from our members. They are currently discussing a naming convention for franchise articles. Since this may affect one or more articles in our Novel project, they would like to get opinions before implimenting any changes.
With the Newsletter being almost three months overdue, I have decided to take on the position of Editor to make sure it reaches you regularly on time each month. The Newsletter is meant to inspire and encourage our team of Editors and so my goal shall be to make it informative and interesting each issue.
We now have many positions vacant in our Project Team, so we are looking for members who have the time and interest to take on the various roles, details of which can be found at the Job Centre. Shortly a Coordinator nominations notice shall also be sent out to all members, which will commence the annual Coordinator selection process.
Next month's Newsletter will include a message from our Coordinator Maria, who will introduce herself and speak on our forthcoming elections for extra Coordinators.
This month's Collaboration has been selected by popular vote and is Look Homeward, Angel. The next collaboration is due for selection on 14 September, 2008 so cast your vote.
Newsletter challenge
Our last newsletter's challenge The Pure Land was completed by our member Maclean25, who also provided us with tipline news for this newsletter.
The first person to start the article is mentioned in the next newsletter. This month's article is Leslie Ann Moore's first book in her fantasy 'Griffin's Daughter' trilogy, which was named by the Independent Book Publishers Association as the 2008 Ben Franklin Award winner for Best First Fiction, Griffin's Daughter. Note: This article was previously deleted due to lack of notability, but that now can be established since winning this award.
To unsubscribe from further issues of this newsletter please remove your name from here.
As someone who's worked on D&D and/or RPG articles before, I'm inviting you to participate in our goal to both improve articles that have been selected to be placed in the next Wikipedia DVD release, as well as nominate more to be selected for this project. Please see the WikiProject D&D talk page for more details. :) BOZ (talk) 19:32, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
My apologies for taking him...I know that you aren't on very often, so I decided to step in...if you want to help with the adoption, feel free to comment on anything at the page...
There's this humongous project I'm working on, in which me and a few others are composing a profile (in the form of a topic outline) for each and every country of the world.
It's a fun project, because rather than merely complete one country at a time, each participant in the collaboration works on a particular type of fact and makes sure it is covered properly on each country's profile. When done this way, working on the set of pages is kind of like traveling around the world.
A friendly reminder from the Adopt-a-User project =)
Hey there Zachary crimsonwolf! This is a friendly reminder to update your status at Wikipedia:Adopt-a-User/Adoptee's Area/Adopters whenever it is appropriate in order to provide new users with the most up-to-date information on available adopters. Also please note that we will be removing adopters who have not edited in 60 days. If you become active again (and we hope you do!) please feel free to re-add yourself. Cheers!
Hello. I am a fellow Wikipedian wishing to expand my horizons. Although I technically have been with the project for over a year, I have not been very active. I still have a lot to learn.
I was wondering if, perhaps, you would consider adopting me. I will try to be as maintenance-free as possible. I do not even know how often I will be on, nor how active. So if you are debating about the number of adoptees, you could probably have another with me.
Signpost updated for November 17, 2008 and before.
Because the Signpost hasn't been sent in a while, to save space, I've condensed all seven issues that were not sent into this archive. Only the three issues from November are below.
Outline of Knowledge / Geography WikiProject Collaboration: Country outlines
As you probably remember, last spring we started work on the "Geography and places" branch of Wikipedia's Outline of knowledge. (WikiProject Lists of basic topics has been renamed to Wikipedia:WikiProject Outline of knowledge). The geography branch is in the form of a set of outline pages including one for every present-day nation or state in the world. That's 247 pages! This has been a huge undertaking, involving dozens of editors using advanced wiki-tools.
These pages have come a long way, and it won't be long before the whole set is complete enough to be moved to article space into the encyclopedia for the benefit of all. But there's still a lot of work left, and we could use all the help we can get!
While some editors prefer to work on one country at a time, most of our team members take on a particular entry and complete it across all the pages. This has come to be our standard type of task. To facilitate this process, we apply tools such as AutoWikiBrowser, Linky, and WikEd, all of which can be used to process a large number of pages in various (direct or indirect) ways.
In case you are interested in what we've been up to, here's a progress report:
Lately, development has been slow but continuous:
On our recruiting initiative, Penubag has done a fantastic job on the images for the awards we'll be using for our project's collaborations and contests. We now have 3 awards: a medal, a trophy, and a race ribbon. They all look tight. The trophy needs a small adjustment, but other than that, all 3 award images are complete and ready to use to create awards with.
Spartaz has warned us of (threatened to take) G4 (speedy delete) action if we run a competition that resembles the previously deleted Awards Center page. So whatever we do, any contests we run must differ substantially from the methods used there.
One type of competition I've been exploring is "edit racing". I'm in the process of working the bugs out of this concept - the first race didn't work as expected - you see, because we only had an award for first place, so the opponent didn't think it worthwhile to continue once it was clear who the winner would be. And since editors are in different time zones and usually need to start the race at different times, we need to base winning on personal start times - he who completes his assigned edits in the least time (rather than first), wins. And last but not least is quality control. What good is racing if the participants' edits are ripe with errors? So I'll be exploring possibilities such as using a referee (assigned to oversee a particular race), having participants watching each other for errors to knock them back, etc. I'm not sure yet.
Rich Farmbrough has been applying his bot expertise to filling in blanks in the country outlines (the population and area entries). I'm amazed at the number of edits he pumps out each day on a myriad of projects - ours makes up but a small time slice of his activity, and yet he has saved us many hours of manual work. Perhaps we should look into how he gets so much done. :)
Zlerman has chosen to work on specific outlines, and has taken on Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan. He also has been keen on noticing and reporting design issues pertaining to the whole set of country outlines. Keep up the good work!
Highfields is in charge of capitals, adding them to all the outlines. He is also our first race winner. Check out the award on his user pages.
In case you didn't know, this project has expanded to include work on any and all sets of pages represented on the country outlines. Once the set of country outlines go live (in article space), traffic will likely increase for all the links included on them. The quality and usefulness of those pages will reflect heavily on the country outlines. The outlines, which are essentially lists of links, are only as good as the links they present, and therefore we've branched out to solve the biggest problems with those as well. So far, we've taken on:
The creation of disambiguation pages for country adjectivals ("German", "French", "Taiwanese", etc.) We're about half done with these.
Wikifying the CIA World Factbook statistics on the "demographics of" country pages. We've been renaming those sections to provide a key string that AWB can use for targetting (for skipping and filtering). Once that's done, we'll be able to break the clean-up down into simple AWB search/replace tasks, because we'll be able to target just those pages that include the CIA stuff.
We've also been renaming the "Cuisine of" articles to their adjectival forms ("Chinese cuisine", "Italian cuisine", etc.), for consistency and because the adjective-based terms are generally the most commonly-used names for those cuisine types.
Blackadam2 and Thehelpfulone have been helping out with the "demographics of" pages mentioned above.
And we have a couple speed addicts (addicted to wiki-velocity, not drugs)...
Both Robert Skyhawk and Thehelpfulone prefer (and excel at) simple AWB search/replaces. Robert hasn't actually joined our team yet, but he has been helping out quite a bit from the sidelines (via the WP:AWB/Tasks page. Unfortunately, there has recently been a non-AWB chore that has been holding things up on the AWB front - an edit to all the headings which had to be reverted before too many new edits were made, because any new edits would make the reversion more difficult. The headings have been restored, so now the way is clear for AWB operations, and there are many search/replace tasks in the queue. AWB assignments have started again!
There's a similar bottleneck on the "Demographics of" pages (the "keying" mentioned above), but that's almost cleared too. :)
With my internet access somewhat crippled as of late, I've been finding it difficult to keep up with you guys. However, I expect to be accessing a Linky-capable workstation on a faster server (I'm on it right now, as you can probably tell from my contributions list for the past couple of days), and so I should really pick up speed. Feels goooooood. :)
Recruiting has been a bit slow (but steady), due in part to my crippled access, and because we've been waiting for the images for the awards to be completed. I expect the team to grow more rapidly as the bottlenecks are removed.
Well that's what's been happenin', and here's what's in the pipeline...
We've got a long list of entries that need to be completed across all the outlines and related page sets. If you would like to dive in with advanced wiki-tools to process this whole set of pages on one or more tasks, drop me a note!
As for me, I'm about to begin work on a set of lists that corresponds to all the standard links on the country outlines, and these will be presented on the Topic outline of countries which will be organized exactly like the country outlines. Aside from being an extremely useful navigation aid, it will allow editors to easily see the state of country coverage on Wikipedia - each list will be one link-set, and each list can be used with our wiki-tools to process the pages listed. I'll provide you with a link once I get up to speed on this.
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I'm currently coordinating development of Wikipedia's Outline of knowledge, and I am having trouble making the Wikipedia community aware of that navigation system. We need more editors to develop it, and I need advice on how to recruit them.
I also need advice on the guidelines I've been writing for the Outline of Knowledge at User:The Transhumanist/Outline of knowledge. Is it good enough? Did I miss anything important?
Has the shit hit the fan? - WPOOK update, 05/25/2009
Maybe...
We've started the next phase
I was experiencing mental block on the article draft for "outline" and on the outline guideline draft. And this was holding the whole project back. Without these (which are intended to explain the type of lists known as outlines in detail), the danger is higher that a controversy could go the wrong way.
I requested help on them, but there was none forthcoming.
So I went ahead and started us on the next phase of operations without those 2 pages...
Our AWB'ers and I have placed about 1600 notices all over Wikipedia. And the plan is to place several thousand more.
This generated only one complaint, but it was a very vocal one, and attracted a few other detractors who seemed unfamiliar with the concept of hierarchical outlines and their benefits. However, just as many or more editors came to the defense of the OOK, and there was no consensus formed. But, dab is still trying to rally opposition to outlines at the Village Pump. See below...
Administrator noticeboard incident and Village Pump policy discussion
He went well out of his way to use negative hype to cause a stir.
It appears that Mr. Bachmann doesn't understand the nature of hierarchical outlines and their applications. And though he implied that he has never seen an OOK outline before, he was involved with a discussion on these when they were called "lists of basic topics".
His primary argument is that outlines are content forks of articles, and violate WP:CFORK.
But "topic lists", of which outlines are a type, have been around for almost as long as Wikipedia, and fall under the WP:LISTS and WP:STAND guidelines. They aren't intended as forks, as they are lists, bringing the benefits of lists to the corresponding subjects, such as grouping and navigation.
Someone suggested an MfD, but lists are articles, and are within the jurisdiction of AfD. Only the portal page, which merely lists the outline articles, falls within the scope of the MfD department.
The administrator's noticeboard was considered the wrong venue for the discussion, and the discussion was closed.
Input on the OOK threads at the Village Pump has died down (at both WP:VPP and WP:VPR), and there is currently no consensus on either.
Negative feedback
For the number of notices we posted (over a thousand) the number of complaints we received (the two VP threads mentioned above) was quite low.
Silent majority
Considering most of the outlines are orphans, they get pretty good use.
Note that people who are happy with articles on Wikipedia generally don't say anything, so I simply interpret it as positive feedback.
Traffic, traffic comparison, and increasing traffic
Using Traffic, I compare the traffic of articles, their corresponding outlines, and their corresponding portals from time to time.
Outlines are starting to catch up to portals. Though the main portals, which are included in a navbar menu at the top of most portals are still way ahead of their outline counterparts.
Both outlines and portals are way behind the articles on the same subjects. Articles usually have 20 to 30 times the traffic.
Traffic should improve once we include links on the corresponding subject pages, including the main subject as well as subjects that correspond to subheadings (e.g., History of x, and in the case of countries: Geography of x, Demographics of x, Culture of x, etc.)
I'm convinced the traffic of outlines will overtake portals once we've link-integrated them into the encyclopedia. And since outlines serve as tables of contents for each subject, it seems most fitting to place links to them in the form of hatnotes at the top of each subject's main articles (and the sub-subjects mentioned in the paragraph directly above).
By the way, there's another traffic counter called Wikirank, but I haven't tested it out much yet, but will do so in the coming weeks.
Going for the Main Page
Once the traffic of outlines has overtaken portals, it will be time to replace portals on the Main Page, even if we need to spearhead a new main page redesign! This isn't a far-fetched idea. I was the one who jumpstarted and led the project responsible for the current main page design (until it hit critical mass and attracted other leaders), and I was also the most active editor on that project. I even created the WP:CBB on the Community Portal to promote the main page election. The second time around should be easier.
Back to the here and now
Targetting the Main Page is a few months off.
Right now, we need to continue posting notices and start link-integrating the OOK into the encyclopedia.
I have a whole slew of AWB tasks to assign. I hope you are ready. :)
Spread the word
WP:WPOOK needs members. Tell all your friends about the OOK, and get them to join.
P.S.: Here's what's been happening with the project. My head is spinning. I look forward to your further advice on the project's operations...
Outline update - Good news and bad news - 06/08/2009
The big push continues.
And it seems to be working!
The good news is that there's growing support for outlines, and there are more editors than ever editing them!
The bad news is that the complainers are disproportionately represented on the project's various talk pages. While many editors work diligently on the front end, a handful of complainers are trying to tear down the project behind the scenes. Fortunately, barely enough supporters have been watching those pages that no consensus for moving or merging the outlines has succeeded. So far...
Big problem: ignorance of what outlines are for and their benefits
Most of the opposition seems to be unaware of the complete range of what outlines are used for. They just don't get it.
This is why it is important to complete the outline article draft. An article with a comprehensive treatment of outlines would be the perfect place to refer anybody unfamiliar with outlines to.
Opposers also don't seem to understand how outlines differ from some other page type that they prefer. Some think articles are good enough as an overview, others think portals are more in-depth, still others think categories or navigation boxes are the most efficient and useful way to organize and present topical information. Some have simply never seen an "Outline of" page before and think they are a new type of page (they've been around under other names since 2001).
To add the outlines and related support pages to your watchlist (takes less than 30 seconds), cut and paste them from Wikipedia:WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist into your raw watchlist. For a way to improve the display of your watchlist - by namespace (very useful) - see Watchlist sorter, or use the "super fast upgrade" at WP:OTS.
I asked a bunch of mentors at WP:ADOPT for advice. Several of them answered on my talk page. Most of those who replied were happy to help, and posted some very good ideas. A couple even joined the project.
Here are their ideas, and what is being done about them. A few of the tasks still need volunteers:
Strdst grl: Create and place project banners - already Done
SriMesh: Add a feed to AlexNewArtBot to gather links to new outlines and post them on a page. Then personally invite new creators to the project. - who wants to tackle the feed?
SriMesh: Assign someone to monitor the outlines via watchlist, and invite new outline editors to the project - any volunteers?
Related: Create an invitation - Penubag is working on it.
SriMesh: Add the above template to incomplete outlines - upcoming AWB task
The Earwig: "Tell your wikifriends about it" - I've told mine, have you told yours?
The Earwig: "Collaborate with other WikiProjects" - we've been doing this from the start (each outline is associated with at least one other WikiProject).
: move the projected outline to a subpage of WP:WPOOK - Done
Linking to outlines has begun
To the tops of about 30 subject articles, I placed a test batch of hatnotes leading to the corresponding outlines. The hatnotes look like this:
For a topical guide to this subject, see Outline of X.(Hidden: <!- PLEASE LEAVE THIS LINE IN PLACE because it leads to the page that serves as the table of contents for Wikipedia's overall coverage of this subject. Thank you.-->
The rationale for the hatnotes is that each outline is a topical guide for its subject, and since tables of contents go at the front of a book, a link to each outline should be placed at the front of its subject.
Unfortunately, not all editors agree. Some of the hatnotes have already disappeared. :(
Some past discussions pertaining to the existence or location of outlines
Note that the "Lists of topics" are of two types, including outlines and indexes, so discussions to remove, move, or merge those are usually relevant to the OOK. Also, outlines are a type of list, so discussions that affect lists in general also pertain to outlines. We've got to be on our toes!
As you know, Penubag is working on a banner to advertise the Outline WikiProject. And he's almost done.
The banner prominently presents the "Outline of chocolate", which of course will become the most widely advertised outline as soon as the banner goes live. The first thing many editors will do after seeing the banner is look for that outline.
Thank you for your advice. We're putting it to good use.
I've run into a situation, and need your valuable insight.
One thing I've tried to do with respect to the outlines is place a hatnote on subject articles leading to that subject's corresponding outline.
Two people complained, and form the basis of consensus not to do it.
The main concern was quality: a hatnote shouldn't be placed unless the outline is of at least the same or higher quality than the article the hatnote is being placed on. That sets up a catch-22, since we need the best linking we can to attract readers and editors in the first place. The more traffic, the more feedback and changes.
So quality is the focus.
Please have a look at the outlines.
What are the biggest quality issues? What do the outlines need done to them in order to improve their quality?
Several members of the WikiProject have been hard at work.
Buaidh has been building and refining the outlines on the U.S. States, the states' historical outlines, and the Historical outline of the United States. Lately, his edits have dominated the project's watchlist readout. (I think he's overdue for a barnstar or two. hint hint)
Penubag has been working on medals for all the main branches of the OOK, and has completed the OOK WikiProject's animated advert banner (see below).
Highfields has been filling in the currencies for each country on their respective outlines.
NuclearWarfare and Thehelpfulone have been busy with WP:AWB, posting banners and notices, and helping our sister project, the Index WikiProject, get established. Indexes work hand-in-hand with the outlines and are prominently linked to from the top of most of them. And the outlines, which serve as tables of contents, are only as good as the pages they link to.
Since we started integrating (linking) the OOK and its support pages into the encyclopedia and into the Wikipedia community, activity on outlines has been increasing. Though there's still much left to do.
MacMed has joined our advanced wiki-tools team, and is currently adding links to outlines in the corresponding subject articles' see also sections.
Be sure to stop by their talk pages and say "hi".
WPOOK's advert banner has gone live!
Penubag has finished this WikiProject's animated advert banner, and it is now being displayed on the Wikipedia ads template which in turn is displayed on about 2000 user pages. Each time someone access one of those pages, there is a 1 in 184 chance of them viewing this:
I discovered an AfD discussion on possibly the first article named "Outline of", which was called Outline of Islamic and Muslim related topics, and which was created 4 years ago. Of course they deleted it. But now it has many friends, and so it has risen from the dead. :)
When G716 found the page "Learn" tucked away as a subpage of the Probability WikiProject, he thought "This deserves to be in the article space", and moved it to the encyclopedia. See Outline of probability.
Recruiting
Recruiters needed. Drop me a note if you are interested.
Astatine-210 - add a link to the outlines to the disambiguation pages of the corresponding subjects - good idea. Since "Outline" is just the type of page, not the subject, I think these might qualify for inclusion on disambiguation pages. We need someone to look into the relevant guidelines on this.
SimonTrew - provide a badge (userbox) for WPOOK members to add to their user pages - Penubag will have one for us soon.
Zachary crimsonwolf - create a card explaining outlines, and send it to everyone you know, and make it viral (by including a request for the recipients to send the card to everyone they know) - this task has been split in three:
Creation of a "thank you for your interest" card which introduces (explains) outlines, to send to queriers, new participants to discussions, those who seem to be confused about outlines, etc.
Creation of a thank you card / invitation to the WPOOK, to send to users we see working on outlines, including a request for them to invite others whom they think might be interested
3. Creation of an invitation to Wikignomes, with a brief rundown on the types of tasks there are for them to do on the outlines. The invitation will include a request for them to invite anyone they think would enjoy working on outlines.
weebiloobil - add a picture to Wikipedia:Outlines (it doesn't have to be relevant), to provide atmosphere and to break it up visually and add a splash of color - will do, and we'll add a caption to make it relevant, with a link to the outline on that subject. Thank you for the idea.
Zachary crimsonwolf - ask Jimbo Wales to bestow the award(s) for the country outlines contest, once you get it going first - we'll give that a try
Zachary crimsonwolf - ask everyone in the project to inform their acquaintances around Wikipedia about the OOK - will do, as soon as the cards
UzEE - collaborate with all the WikiProjects you share scope with - we've placed a banner on their talk pages, and have placed task notices on some. We'll be posting more tasks, and plan to create a section on contents system development and maintenance for each WikiProject page itself.
SriMesh - if you can't get outlines added to next year's WikiCup, then create your own WikiCup-like contest - there's 6 months left to this year to address reservations and work out the details at WikiCup. In the meantime, there's the 200-WikiProject contest, which needs input.
Outline of psychology - someone moved a big chunk of this article to the talk page, leaving a big gap in the outline. Editors are needed to add subheadings and links.
See also links - add {{main|Outline of x}} (where "x" is the subject) to the see also section of the corresponding subject article of each outline
(You can use the wikicode for the links above as the basis for new searches - just replace "Gibraltar" with any other country or region name).
Request: please redirect the redlinks! (bluelinking...)
The redlinks need to be bluelinked where possible. The most useful way is to create redirects leading to the material (which is usually included in a section of an article - see Wikipedia:Redirect#Redirects to page sections. That way, when the redirect pages are replaced by the actual articles, the links will already point to the right places.
This is an archive of past discussions about User:Zachary crimsonwolf. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
