User talk:WithdrawnVTJS/Idscoveri

I restored this deleted page per the request on my talk page. It has to be rewritten so it is not a WP:COPYVIO and needs refs to establish notability. Please clean this up in the next week, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 12:56, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ruhrfisch comments

On my talk page WithdrawnVTJS wrote "Thanks. I verified WP:NN and I guess the rewritten article would meet the notability requirements. If i were to obtain written permission for the content to avoid copyright infringement, should i post it to commons or if i send the details to you or any other wikipedia administrators would that be enough? I shall actually re-write about the company and its work in my own words but the details about their work are really best captured in their own words. Advise. Once again thanks a lot. WithdrawnVTJS (talk) 12:00, 5 January 2010 (UTC)"[reply]

Here are my comments on the article. Thanks for starting to work on this, however, only one edit has been made to the article so far and it has not added any references and has left almost all of the copyvio material unchanged - diff.

Looking at just the lead of the article, it is still almost a verbatim copy of the official web page. Here is the current lead:

iDiscoveri is a social enterprise with a mission to renew education in India. iDiscoveri was founded in 1996 and is now a leading enterprise in the spaces of school education, enterprise leadership development and outdoor education. iDiscoveri continues to innovate on its cutting edge curriculum and teaching methods and is poised for significant scale up across India and other countries.

and here is the identical corresponding paragraph from http://www.idiscoveri.com/about_us.htm:

iDiscoveri is a social enterprise with a mission to renew education in India. iDiscoveri was founded in 1996 and is now a leading enterprise in the spaces of school education, enterprise leadership development and outdoor education. iDiscoveri continues to innovate on its cutting edge curriculum and teaching methods and is poised for significant scale up across India and other countries.

While you can have an email giving permission to use material from the website sent to Wikipedia - see Wikipedia:OTRS and Wikipedia:Declaration of consent for all enquiries on how to do this - it would only solve the WP:COPYVIO problem, but not two or three other serious problems that the article has as currently written.

The first of these problems is that the article violates policy on having a neutral point of view as it is mostly written in a non-encylcopedic style, and reads like an advertisement or promotional material (which is what it is, since this is mostly copied and pasted from the company's own website). Please see Wikipedia:NOTADVERTISING and note that this would qualify for a speedy delete as currently written if it were in article space - see {{db-spam}}.

The second major problem is that the article lacks enough references from reliable, independent third-party sources - see WP:V and WP:CITE and WP:RS. Note that the company's own webiste does not help here at all, since it is not independent or from a third-party. See more on this below in the third problem

The third major problem is notability. I think it might be that this is just barely OK, but let's look at the current refs. First off they are not inline citations using <ref>Insert non-formatted text here</ref> tags, so the reader is not sure which ref applies where. Second, the first ref makes no mention of this company by name. The second ref is mostly about Dr. Gardner and only makes one mnetion of the company - this is OK, but the article needs more refs that are focused on the company. I note that Dr. Gardner is not mentioned at all in the current article.

The third ref is also mostly about Dr. Gardenr and again makes only a few passing references to the company, with a quote from its founder. The fourth ref is exactly the kind of thing this article needs - it is from an independent, reliable source (a newspaper) and is about the company. I did not watch the fifth ref (You Tube video of a tv news segment on the company). The article needs more refs like the fourth one, however the ref does not identify the newspaper, the author (if known), the date of publication, page number, etc.

The other problem with the refs is that they are incomplete in terms of the information provided. Internet refs need URL, title, author if known, publisher and date accessed. {{cite web}}, {{cite news}}, and other cite templates may be helpful. My rule of thumb is that every quote, every statistic, every extraordinary claim and every paragraph needs a ref.

I will fix one of the refs in the article to show what needs to be done. Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 14:48, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

More from Ruhrfisch

I fixed one reference as an example of what to do.
I note that the newly added material (History) also needs to be written in a neutral point of view, avoiding so-called peacock words. So "revolutionize" in this sentence is not neutral or encyclopedic in tone In 2003, Wipro Applying School for thoughts partnered with iDiscoveri to revolutionize the teaching experience in its schools. [3] See WP:NPOV again and WP:PEACOCK
Per WP:CITE references come directly AFTER punctuation (no space), and are usually at the end of a sentence or phrase
Please spell out abbreviations like XLRI on first use. I think it is XLRI Jamshedpur School of Business and Human Resources.
I also note that the article has almost no wikilinks - please add these

Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 15:10, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Still more from Ruhrfisch

The lead is only two sentences, both of which are copied exactly from the official web page. They need to be rewritten in your own words, as does all remaining copyrighted material in the article.
The lead should be an accessible and inviting overview of the whole article. As such, nothing important should be in the lead only - since it is a summary, it should all be repeated in the body of the article itself
My rule of thumb is to include every header in the lead in some way. Please see WP:LEAD
"Started by Alumnus of XLRI in 1996..." I would identify this person by name, spell out and link XLRI, so "Started by X, an alumnus of XLRI Jamshedpur School of Business and Human Resources, in 1996..."
Still lots of non-encylcopedic / POV language - here are examples from History with the offending word or phrase in bold: "After the mammoth success Youreka had brought in bringing a visible change in their learning" or this " Wipro Applying School for thoughts partnered with iDiscoveri to revolutionize the teaching experience"
Even the material that is not copyvio still reads like an advert in many places
The references need to be more detailed and need to be to published material - how is current ref 10 "Interview of Mr.Ashish Rajpal" useful if I want to read the interview myself? How can I verify what he says in the interview since no source is given?

Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 16:33, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]