User talk:Wisemenandthepainters

Welcome!

Hello, Wisemenandthepainters, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, such as Omrr, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines, and may not be retained.

There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Teahouse, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{help me}} on this page, followed by your question, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Questions or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Anarchyte (work | talk) 11:54, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Omrr

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.
You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Omrr requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a band or musician, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Anarchyte (work | talk) 11:54, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

March 2016

Welcome to Wikipedia. It might not have been your intention, but in this recent edit you removed a speedy deletion tag from Omrr, a page you have created yourself. If you believe the page should not be deleted, you may contest the deletion by clicking on the button that says: Contest this speedy deletion which appears inside the speedy deletion notice. This will allow you to make your case on the page's talk page. Administrators will consider your reasoning before deciding what to do with the page. Thank you. ~Oshwah~^{(talk) (contribs)} 12:24, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict of Interest

Hello, Wisemenandthepainters. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a COI may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:

avoid editing or creating articles about yourself, your family, friends, company, organization or competitors;
propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (see the {{request edit}} template);
disclose your COI when discussing affected articles (see WP:DISCLOSE);
avoid linking to your organization's website in other articles (see WP:SPAM);
do your best to comply with Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation (see WP:PAID).

Also please note that editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. – Athaenara ✉ 07:31, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your message,

I would like to clarify that the article created was not influenced by any means, Here on Wikipedia, editors helped and re-write my draft before approving, they made the necessary changes to make sure it complies.

Hope you can re-consider. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wisemenandthepainters (talk • contribs) 03:44, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright and paid editing

Yu wrote on my talk page as follows:

Hello, hope all is well, I'm the artist manager of Omar El Abd (omrr), Recently both articles were deleted, i would like to clarify that omrr is the stage name of Omar El Abd, they are the same person, i thought using the real name and referring to stage name is the best practice, Would appreciate it if you let me know how to improve /fix the issue. Thank you, have a great day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wisemenandthepainters (talk • contribs) 07:15, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

(Normally I respond to such messages on the page where they a left, but this case is an exception)

I deleted the page Omar El Abd as a copyright infringement of (https://www.discogs.com/artist/4922256-Omrr). I also deleted Draft:Omar el abd as a copyright infringement of the same discogs page. It had nothing to do with the page name, or the performer's stage name.
For both legal and moral reasons, Wikipedia cannot and will not accept text copied from outside sources unless that text is explicitly released under a free license (except for short quotations marked as such, properly attributed, and cited to a source in line, see WP:QUOTE). When detected, copyright infringements are routinely deleted. Inserting text (or images) that infringe copyright is grounds for loss of editing privileges.
Moreover, you say that you are the artist manager of Omar El Abd. That means that any edits you make about him or his work are considered paid contributions. You must disclose your paid relationship before making any further such edits. Failure to do so is grounds for the permanent loss of editing privileges.
Because you created a second version of this page, after the first was deleted for copyright infringement, and because you were notified of this reason via the deletion log entry, which I know you read, as that is how you knew that I was the deleting admin, I am going to block you from editing for a short period. Because you were not given a separate talk page warning previously, the block will; be shorter than it otherwise might be. Please use the period of your block to review our policies and guidelines on copyright, Conflict of interest, paid editing, promotional editing, and Notability. Once you return to editing, your first step should be to declare your paid status, using {{paid}}.
You asked how to "fix" the article above. First and most important, do not copy or closely paraphrase an outside source, but write in original words. Secondly, base all article (or draft) content on reliable sources, and cite them. Thirdly, all articles must be neutral and factual, not promotional. Fourthly, all articles must be about notable topics. See our guideline about the notability of people and our guideline on the notability of musicians. Finally, I wish you happy and successful editing after your block. Do NOT try to edit except on this talk page during your block, under any name. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 12:56, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Blocked for copyright infringement

You have been blocked temporarily from editing for violating copyright policy by copying text or images into Wikipedia from another source without evidence of permission. You have been previously warned that this is against policy, but have persisted. Please take this opportunity to ensure that you understand our copyright policy and our policies regarding how to use non-free content. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.

See the section above for details. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 13:00, 5 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

decline reason unchanged will result in display of a default reason, explaining why the request was declined.

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Wisemenandthepainters (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Hello, after some time reading through the policies and trying to understand what went wrong, i would like to clarify that the text in Discogs was copied from the Wikipedia page, not the other way around, but i have worked on a new article that follows all guidelines, Hoping for an unblock so i can start editing. Thank you. Wisemenandthepainters (talk) 16:40, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

Procedural decline only. This account is no longer blocked. Please note that you must declare your conflict of interest before editing further; WP:COI explains how. Yamla (talk) 16:42, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

I noted that you had to declare your conflict of interest before editing further. You have failed to do so. You have only indicated that you have a conflict, not what that conflict is. Any admin may unblock you once you properly declare your complete list of conflicts. --Yamla (talk) 18:13, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I should clarify. Given your unwillingness to play by the rules (WP:COI, WP:PAID, WP:PROMO), I would only support an unblock if you agreed to a topic ban around Omar El Abd, broadly construed. Other admins are free to exercise their best judgment, though, and may consider unblocking you without that topic ban. --Yamla (talk) 18:29, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I really don't understand this, i added paid as i was instructed to do above, even-though i'm not really getting paid for this, i was just doing what you're asking because no one will ever believe that i'm doing this as a contribution and as a fan, there is no conflict of interest, i don't even know the guy. A little help what how to move forward would be great, it's very unclear what should i do now. What topic ban? you want to ban an artist from an open-source encyclopedia? as a topic? Ok I give up, maybe someone else will write this article at sometime. Thank you.

You stated, "I'm the artist manager of Omar El Abd (omrr)". So either you were misleading us then or now. And you did not follow the instructions in WP:COI. You have to specify where the conflict is, exactly. --Yamla (talk) 19:31, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't mislead you then or now, i do contribute and help out artists, this is what i do since i can't walk and i DON'T get paid for it, you know nothing about me to say i'm misleading. i said that i'm the artist manager so people here would take me seriously, i didn't even know that was something against Wikipedia, but again i asked you what else to do other than writing paid, and you are repeating the same answer. Would have been much easier if you told me how to, because i'm talking to a human not a robot. Not EVERYONE is a spammer. This was the only thing i wrote on Wikipedia along with some edits, it's really a very disappointing environment. Again, i don't know what to add next to paid, and i'm not convinced i should because i'm not getting paid and i never did, so i won't. And again Thank you, keep up the good work.

I take it that that you are saying that you are his unpaid manager, is that correct? That is a bit unusual, but perfectly possible. But in that case you are still clsoely associated with Omar El Abd, and do have a conflict of interest The reason for our policies and guidelines on this topic is that it is very hard, almost imposible, for most people to write about a topic on which they have strong feelings or with which they are closely associated while keeping to th neutrality that a Wikipedia article must have. Moreover, it seems that many people involved with popular artists in particular find it hard to drop the marketing and promotional style in which they are used to writing about such topics. Please understand, i am not accusing you of doing anything improper, but you may now understand why people here tend to be suspicious in such cases. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 23:45, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A "Topic ban" such as Yamla suggested above, would mean not that there could be no article about Omar El Abd, but that you in particular would be required not to edit it or any related articles. I don't think we need tpo go that far at this time. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 23:45, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It does happen that other sites copy from Wikipedia without acknowledging this, crating an apparent copyright issue where none really is. I am sorry if i incorrectly identified your edits as copyright infringements if they were actually "backwards copies" that is cases where another site copied from Wikipedia. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 23:45, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear, at this point, any article about Omar El Abd will need to make it clear why he is significant, and to cite independent published reliable sources so as to establish his notability. Please read our guide for th4 notability of music-related topics. If you are sure that Omar El Abd satisfies the criteria there, then I would suggest that you use the article wizard to create a draft under the articles for creation project. An experienced editor will review this after you mark it as ready, and advise on any problems noted. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 23:45, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have now unblocked you, because you declared your conflict of interest on this talk page, and because the block by Yamla was based in part on my previous block for copyright infringement, which has proved to be incorrect. I have also left an entry in your block log, indicating that the prior block for copyright infringement was an erro on my part. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 00:07, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Moving foward with article

Hello DESiegel,

Thank you for your reply, understanding, and fairness. really appreciate it.

I would really like to get my previous article back, It was published for a long time and suddenly removed for the copyright infringement issue. I feel that anything i'll publish or do now will get rejected.

About notability, The musician is very popular and notable in the experimental and ambient music scene, it's not a huge scene, but he's popular among them. There is a list of press on his website, interviews, reviews, etc. and if you google omrr you'll be able to see that. Would really appreciate it you publish back my old article. i didn't do anything intentionally or manipulated anything or anyone. It's a non-biased article if you read it, i'm just stating facts from press. Thank you.

While the copyright issue has been dealt with, the article was later deleted for lack of asserted significance, also known as CSD A7. This means that the article did not clearly explain why the subject was significant. Further, in Wikipedia terms "notable" does not mean "important" or "popular". Here it means that multiple independent published reliable sources have "taken note" of the topic by discussing it in some depth and detail. Can you cite some sources that do this about Omar El Abd? In particular, can you provide reliably published reviews or critical comment on Omar El Abd? My thought at this point is to restore the previous article and move it to draft space to allow such additional sources and content to be added. Or you could ask for it to be undeleted at WP:REFUND, but that might not be accepted. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 17:40, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If you respond, Wisemenandthepainters, please ping me by including the text {{ping|DESiegel}} as part of a signed comment, using four tildes (~~~~) at the end. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 17:44, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi DESiegel,

Again, thank you for reply and understanding.

There is plenty of such resource online, Here is some below i got from Google and i'm sure there is plenty more, including reviews, interviews, album reviews, etc. I'll add them to a new article since i don't see any restore option.

http://textura.org/archives/o/omrr_devilsdarling.htm https://driftingalmostfalling.wordpress.com/2017/11/17/omrr-devils-for-my-darling/ http://www.rts.rs/page/radio/sr/story/1466/radio-beograd-3/2940578/nocne-promenade.html http://ambientmusicguide.com/best-of-year/best-albums-of-2017/ http://www.cairoscene.com/SceneNoise/Album-Review-Omar-El-Abd-aka-omrr-Drops-a-Heartbreaking-New-Album-on-Russian-Imprint-Dronarivm https://sowhatmusica.wordpress.com/2017/10/04/omrr-devils-for-my-darling/ https://irregularcrates.com/2017/10/02/omrr-devils-for-my-darling/ http://www.chaindlk.com/reviews/?id=10108 https://baddpress.blog/2017/09/30/omrr-devils-for-my-darling/ https://musicwontsaveyou.com/2017/09/22/omrr-devils-for-my-darling/ http://www.merchantsofair.com/albums/omrr-devils-for-my-darling http://www.vitalweekly.net/1097.html http://www.madamasr.com/en/2016/12/22/feature/culture/skype-drinks-headphones-and-a-conversation-with-omrr/ https://ma3azef.com/%D9%85%D9%8A%D9%88%D8%B2%D9%83-%D9%81%D9%88%D8%B1-%D8%B0-%D8%A2%D9%86%D9%83%D8%B4%D8%B3/ http://www.vitalweekly.net/1057.html http://www.cairoscene.com/SceneNoise/Album-Review-Omrr-s-Latest-Release-Music-For-The-Anxiou https://www.tinymixtapes.com/chocolate-grinder/watch-omrr-city-lies https://sowhatmusica.wordpress.com/2016/11/15/omrr-music-for-the-anxious/ https://musicwontsaveyou.com/2016/11/12/omrr-music-for-the-anxious/ http://www.beachsloth.com/omrr-music-for-the-anxious.html http://www.cairoscene.com/SceneNoise/Album-Review-Omar-El-Abd-s-The-Quiet-Ones

@DESiegel:Wisemenandthepainters (talk) 20:32, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, i created the page again here, adding references from Google. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Omar_El_Abd @DESiegel:Wisemenandthepainters (talk) 20:41, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You misunderstood me slightly. Only admins have the "restore" button. I meant that I would push it IF there were some additional sources. But let that go, as you ahve recreated it as a draft. However, i mentioned that we need sources that are Independent and Reliable. Press releases and Interviews are not considered independent, and so are of no value. Blogs, fan sites, and othe sites run by a single person are usually not considered reliable. Reviews published by a news publication or an online magazine with some reputation for accuracy and selectivity, and more than a local scope (regional, national, or international coverage) would be ideal. Do any of the sources you found fit those parameters, Wisemenandthepainters? If so, which ones, please? DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 21:39, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi DESiegel,

Thank you for your reply,

The sources i sent has many Independent and reliable sources, for example: Ma3azef is the leading music online portal in the middle east (There is a couple of articles there), so as Cairo scene and Mada Masr, and TinyMix Tapes internationally, Independent online magazines such as musicwontsaveyou, vitalweekly (one of the oldest, most reliable music sources on the internet), textura are also very important to the scene. I am sure people in this field will agree with this. I will also keep looking for other sources. Big thanks for your help so far, it's been great!

@DESiegel:Wisemenandthepainters (talk) 21:58, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please read Referencing for Beginners, Wisemenandthepainters. References should not just be added in a long list in the "References" section. Instead they should follow the fact that they support, often at the end of s sentence or clause. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 22:21, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, i got it, just citation as referencing, this has been fixed. I hope now everything looks good. i don't want to add all sources, it will look cluttered. I think it looks ok now, do you think it can pass? @DESiegel:Wisemenandthepainters (talk) 22:57, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Omar El Abd (June 1)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Kvng was:

This submission's references do not adequately show the subject's notability. Wikipedia requires significant coverage (not just mere mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject—see the guidelines on the notability of music-related topics, the golden rule and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue. Please improve the submission's referencing (see Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners and Help:Introduction to referencing/1), so that the information is verifiable, and there is clear evidence of why the subject is notable and worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia. If additional reliable sources cannot be found for the subject, then it may not be suitable for Wikipedia at this time.

The comment the reviewer left was:

There is not significant coverage of the subject in secondary sources cited. Most of the coverage is about the music. An interview is not a strong secondary source since it is the subject talking about himself.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Omar El Abd and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Omar El Abd, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{db-self}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk or on the reviewer's talk page.
You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

~Kvng (talk) 20:27, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Wisemenandthepainters! Having an article declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! ~Kvng (talk) 20:27, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Omar El Abd (July 8)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Dial911 was:

This submission's references do not adequately show the subject's notability. Wikipedia requires significant coverage (not just mere mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject—see the guidelines on the notability of people, the golden rule and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue. Please improve the submission's referencing (see Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners and Help:Introduction to referencing/1), so that the information is verifiable, and there is clear evidence of why the subject is notable and worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia. If additional reliable sources cannot be found for the subject, then it may not be suitable for Wikipedia at this time.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Omar El Abd and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Omar El Abd, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{db-self}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk or on the reviewer's talk page.
You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Dial911 (talk) 05:03, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Omar El Abd (October 27)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by AngusWOOF were:

This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified. If you need help with referencing, please see Referencing for beginners and Citing sources.

This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of music-related topics). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia.

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please indicate how this music artist meets WP:MUSICBIO. Discogs should not be used as reference. Same with Allmusic unless it's the official bio writeup.

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Omar El Abd and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Omar El Abd, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{db-self}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk or on the reviewer's talk page.
You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 21:23, 27 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]