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Welcome to Milhist!

Hello Visioncurve and welcome to the Military history WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to military history.

A few features that you might find helpful:

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask any of the project coordinators or any other experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome, and we are looking forward to seeing you around! Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:55, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Welcome to the GOCE!

Hello Visioncurve and welcome to the Guild of Copy Editors (GOCE)! We are glad that you have decided to help us in our mission to improve the quality of writing on the English Wikipedia! Here are some links that you might find helpful to get started on your copy-editing journey!

You can help with copy-editing requests if you already have familiarity with the MOS and considerable English copy-editing skills, or start with articles tagged for copy editing to gain experience.

Thank you so much for joining the GOCE, we appreciate it!

For the GOCE, Puddleglum2.0(How's my driving?) 16:48, 5 March 2020 (UTC) 

Puddleglum2.0(How's my driving?) 16:48, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Re Your Qoutes

Those are two really interesting and insightful little quotes at the top of both your pages! (Userpage and talkpage) Do I interpret your underage Latin quote correctly as "History is the Teacher of Life?" (My Latin class was a long while ago! :D) Do you remember where you found the quotes, or is it just common knowledge I haven't heard about? Either way, they made my day a little more thought-provoking, and I'll definitely use them elsewhere! (If they are free for use of course) Sorry, this is totally off topic for Wikipedia, but I was just really interested in the quotes! Thanks, Puddleglum2.0(How's my driving?) 06:04, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

You are spot on with the translation. It really does mean that history is the teacher of life. As long as I remember, it is mentioned in Cicero's dialogue (work) "On the Orator". I hope that it is free for use, otherwise, wiki's copyright admins would have interfered long ago). I'm glad that it made you interested) - Visioncurve (talk) 07:13, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
That's really interesting, thanks! Puddleglum2.0(How's my driving?) 16:14, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Welcome

Hello:

Thanks for joining the latest GOCE copy edit blitz. I have fixed up your participant's listing, and removed a duplicate entry. There is no need to add a "completed" tag to the article itself once you have finished editing it. You just do this on your own article list.

Twofingered Typist (talk) 12:57, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Visioncurve (talk) 13:28, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi Visioncurve, I've also removed 0 from the working line in your section because it's a real article, it's not on the list of India MILHIST articles and you don't appear to have edited it. If you do intend to copy-edit that article, please feel free to replace it. Cheers and welcome to the GOCE, Baffle☿gab 23:46, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
I also noticed the word counts in your section are incorrect. To calculate article word counts, you can either install the word-counting script (instructions here), which will work automatically in your browser window, or you can copy the entire article into a word processor (MS Word, LibreOffice, etc.) document, remove any non-article content (Contents list, image captions, etc.) and note the word count of the article. You need to use the word count of the version of the article immediately before you stared copy-editing (click the 'history' button the the top of the window and scroll down to find the version you need). I'm sorry it's all a bit technical; if you need further guidance, feel free to ask on my talk page or on the GOCE's talk page and we'll help you the best we can. :) Cheers and thanks for helping with the blitz, Baffle☿gab 01:35, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
Word count did really screw me up; I have to admit I counted them manually). Thanks. --Visioncurve (talk) 07:33, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

I would strongly suggest you find your way to the Talk:Mahmud_of_Ghazni#Copyright?article talk page. --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:33, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

If you imply that the above-mentioned article does not have significant issues with copyright, and you have carefully checked the relevant dates, then there is no problem, good work. I told it beforehand, and I'm saying it now that there was simply a copyright suspicion, and I just wanted to notify editors of the article and copyright admins about that. Thanks --Visioncurve (talk) 06:49, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

April 2020 GOCE blitz bling

The Minor Barnstar
This barnstar is awarded to Visioncurve for copy edits totaling between 1 and 1,999 words (including rollover words) during the GOCE April 2020 Copy Editing Blitz. Congratulations, and thank you for your contributions! Reidgreg (talk) 20:13, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Next month will mark our 10th anniversary of copy-editing drives, feel free to sign up here. – Reidgreg (talk) 20:13, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Copy Edit - Tuqaq


Tuqaq

Hello:

I just wanted to let you know that a second copy edit has now been completed of the article Tuqaq.

Your GOCE request has now been completed and closed.

Regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 14:15, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

Welcome back

Beshogur (talk) 14:31, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, mate. I appreciate that! ;-) --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 06:52, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

My latest contributions

Osman Gazi, epynomous founder of the Ottoman dynasty

Personality of Osman I

The activities and personality of Osman as the founder of the state and dynasty are highly appreciated by historians of both the past and the present. The state and the dynasty of rulers are named after him. The population of the state was called Ottomans (Osmanlilar) until the beginning of the 20th century, that is until the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Historian F. Uspensky notes that Osman relied not only on force, but also cunningness. Historian and writer Lord Kinross writes that Osman was a wise, patient ruler, whom people sincerely respected and were ready to serve him faithfully. He had a natural sense of superiority, but he never sought to assert himself with the help of power, and therefore he was respected not only by those who were equal in position, but also those who exceeded his abilities on the battlefield or on wisdom. Osman did not arouse feelings of rivalry in his people - only loyalty.

Herbert Gibbons believed that Osman was "great enough to exploit masterful people".

“Osman for the Ottomans was the same as Romulus for the Romans,” writes Kemal Kadafar...(Read my contribution in full)

Clash with Timur (Bayezid I)

... In the fateful Battle of Ankara, on 20 July 1402, the Ottoman army was defeated. Bayezid tried to escape, but was captured and taken to Timur. Historians describe their first meeting as follows:

When Timur saw Bayezid, he laughed. Bayezid, offended by this laugh, told Timur that it was indecent to laugh at misfortune; to which Timur replied: “It is clear then that fate does not value power and possession of vast lands if it distributes them to cripples: to you, the crooked, and to me, the lame.”... (Read my contribution in full)

Bayezid in captivity (Bayezid I)

Humiliation of Despina (by Andrea Celesti, circa 1700)

In Europe, the legend of Bayazid's humiliation in captivity was very popular. He was allegedly chained, and forced to watch how his beloved wife, Olivera, served Timur at dinner. According to a legend, Timur took Bayezid with himself everywhere in a barred palanquin or cage, subjecting him to all kinds of humiliation, used Bayezid as a support under his legs, and at dinner had him placed under the table where bones were thrown at him... (Read my contribution in full)

Legacy of Tughril beg

Sultan Tughril was undoubtedly a military genius. Though his military campaigns inflicted serious damage on the productive forces of many conquered states, they paved the way for the establishment of the first powerful medieval empire of the Turks that linked "the East and the West". The formation of a vast empire objectively led to important changes in socio-economic, political and cultural life. The role of the landowning aristocracy markedly increased. Gradually, a new apparatus of state administration and the imperial system of civil and military administration took shape...(Read my contribution in full)

A cup of coffee for you!

Welcome back, and good luck for your editing future! -- puddleglum2.0 05:11, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Umm.. I did explain, but maybe in the wrong place?

Hi Visioncurve,

Actually, I did explain my edit, in the talk section of the page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Environmental_full-cost_accounting. That may be the wrong place.

True Cost Accounting or Full Cost Accounting is not just about environmental impacts, it's also about social impact or impact on social capital. Therefore the term EFCA is too limited for this lemma and it should be FCA (or TCA). The term is a concept which refers to a goal and is commonly used in that way over the last 5 years. Whether it actually achieves "true" or "full" is another thing. Likewise, a "circular economy" does not actually exist, the term refers to an idea, a goal. The World Business Council for Sustainable Development which represents 200 major international companies uses the term True Cost Accounting in this report: https://www.wbcsd.org/contentwbc/download/5826/79593. The UN's FAO talks about Full Cost Accounting: http://www.fao.org/nr/sustainability/full-cost-accounting/en/. In any case, whenever the accounting aim is to uncover and monetize the externalizes or hidden costs, it's not just about environment.

Greetings Alexisderoode (talk) 15:13, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Alexisderoode, thanks for the explanation. In Wikipedia, a page is usually renamed if the existing title is incorrect or needs to be changed; it is called moving a page. Generally, you need to seek consensus for the name change (bringing your cause to the talk page of the article was a right move). There is also a technical side of it, you cannot rename the title of the article by simply changing its name in the opening lines. Usually, it is done by moving the contents and the page history to a new page; changing the old page into a redirect; changing the page history into one that only records the move. Right now, I think you should wait for other constructive opinions on this matter, I'm sure other editors interested in this article will reply to your post in the talk page soon. Happy editing, keep well and stay safe! --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 04:18, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Greetings Visioncurve, Ah, thanks for explaining. I understand that's a major change. Still learning. All right, I'll leave it up to the community for now. All the best, Alexisderoode (talk) 10:45, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions

The Original Barnstar
Thanks for you wonderful contributions to Khwarazm related articles! Alterego Wayne (talk) 03:24, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Kushwaha

Please check article talk & recent history before reverting me at Kushwaha. Trust me, I know what I am doing & have years of experience here re caste articles. - Sitush (talk) 06:29, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi there, Sitush. I hope you are well and staying safe. First of all, I apologize if I have incorrectly reverted your edits. However, to an outsider, your editting resemble acts of vandalism as you delete a great portion of an article without explaining your reasons in the edit summary. Wikipedia recommends using the edit summary to describe changes except for the most minor edits; it also states that unexplained removal of content is open to being promptly reverted. It seems that you did explain your reasons and even discussed it in the talk page of the article, but still you should have mentioned it in the edit summary when deleting (re-structuring) half of the article. At least that's my humble opinion about it. Take care! Thanks. --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 07:27, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
I did give the reason in the edit summary. If you ever seen a mention of something like "last best version", it always pays to check the history. 10 seconds of doing that would have dhown you admins reverting recent disruption, adding protection due to socks and, in March, reverting to the same version I just did for the same reason & even mentioning me by name.
Fwiw, there are probably only three or four people regularly involved with editing caste articles and we face a continual onslaught of rubbish from pov-pushers etc. There are discretionary sanctions in place because it is such a disrupted area. I think you can safely assume that if you see me, Utcursch or Kautilya3 doing massive changes then you have nothing to worry about. However, I will ask @Drmies: to confirm that here for you peace of mind - he is an admin, former arbcom & the person who did the big revert in March. - Sitush (talk) 07:38, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
Sitush, thanks for your time and patience. Happy editing! --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 10:09, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
Sitush, that article history is a mess. Thanks for keeping it clean. Drmies (talk) 12:41, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

-------Reverting pernambuttu---------------------

hi,

i reverted pernampat for following causes

  • change of name from pernambut to pernampattu refer tamilnadu gazzete-new names
  • it is not a taluk-a great mistake
  • i changed into headquarters
  • wikipedia shouldnot used as advertisement so i removed schools names
  • joined major roads to transport

please consider me thankyou

If that's truly the case here, I'll leave this issue to the page watchers of the article. Thank you. --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 13:04, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

RE:June 2020

I made that small change to Hotel Transylvania 2 because Vlad Dracula is a redirect to Vlad the Impaler, all I was doing was piping a redirect. -- 68.163.108.150 (talk) 13:59, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

As far as I know that link worked perfectly fine, and my guess is that there was no need to change it; first of all, because each edit in Wikipedia is meant to improve its page or template (yours was seemingly not an improvement), second of all, this sort of edits is generally considered as unconstructive. If you have any more questions, Wikipedia has a friendly space called Teahouse where experienced editors can help you. Keep well and stay safe! --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 14:49, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Please fix the code in your signature

Hi there! Your signature has a couple of misnested span tags in it, which cause pages where your signature appears to pop up on error reports. Can you please fix it, by moving two span tags like this (move the closing span tags inside the brackets)? Thanks! – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:59, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi! Thanks for notifying me about that! I fixed it. Keep well! --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 03:45, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Vijaya

Hello I found that you supported Ratan375 on changing article Vijaya (bow). There are some not authentic sources. I removed them. Kindly recheck them once again with patience. Don't worry because I didn't remove content. But please bother my words. Mythological character Karna didn't possess Vijay dhanush. I searched a lot in sacred texts.com- the most considered citation in Hindu Mythological articles. I also found that Vijaya bow was wielded by another Mythological character Rukmi. Below is the reference. https://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m05/m05159.htm Please kindly look into it and do some justice. Thank you Fire star on heat (talk) 02:19, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Hello! in previous edits, it is clearly mentioned that sources are not authentic. How can you accept that content. 2 other users told same. Mr Ratan is intentionally doing all wrong edits. he is doing disruptive edits. Please look into it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ravi prakash 1234 (talk • contribs) 10:02, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Fire star on heat, Ravi prakash 1234! The article that both of you are so keenly interested in have multiple and significant issues as shown on the very top of the article. It is not limited only with portion of information that seems to have been collected from unreliable sources. First of all, it needs major copy-editing (work on grammar, flow and etc.), probably re-structuring and most definitely couple of additional citations. Regarding reverting the edit of Ravi prakash 1234, I made it simply because he/she deleted referenced information without providing a decent explanation for his suspicious (at that time) action in the edit summary. It is considered good practice to provide a summary for every edit, especially when reverting (undoing) the actions of other editors or deleting existing text; otherwise, people may question your motives for the edit. Keep well! --VisioncurveHaec lux solis, relinquentes senex mundi 03:34, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Cultural appropriation

Hello, kind greetings! I have a question about my recent changes on the cultural appropriation wikipedia page. I agree with everything but I was just wondering why is wearing a Hello Kitty outfit cultural appropriation. I mean, isn't it manufactured and produced by a Japanese company Sanrio in order to be sold to people. I just don't get it. Maybe you would know better. For example if Honda manufactures a car, which is also a Japanese car manufacturer, everyone can buy it in order for them to earn money for their work and that's the point. An American can buy a Honda which is a Japnese car and that's not cultural appropriation but why can't the same American person buy clothes from a Japanese company? So why can't Avril Lavigne wear Hello Kitty outfit? Thank you for your answer! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.252.198.98 (talk) 10:34, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Timur reversion

Unconstructive? Sum up the article in one word..incomprehensive LordAgincourt (talk) 05:31, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Proofreading be damned! LordAgincourt (talk) 05:33, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

I dont expect a reply from the holier than thou, who wields the power, and if i do get a reply it shant be constructive adieu! LordAgincourt (talk) 06:22, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Cultural appropriation

Hello, kind greetings! I have a question about my recent changes on the cultural appropriation wikipedia page. I agree with everything but I was just wondering why is wearing a Hello Kitty outfit cultural appropriation. I mean, isn't it manufactured and produced by a Japanese company Sanrio in order to be sold to people. I just don't get it. Maybe you would know better. For example if Honda manufactures a car, which is also a Japanese car manufacturer, everyone can buy it in order for them to earn money for their work and that's the point. An American can buy a Honda which is a Japnese car and that's not cultural appropriation but why can't the same American person buy clothes from a Japanese company? So why can't Avril Lavigne wear Hello Kitty outfit? Thank you for your answer! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.252.198.38 (talk) 17:53, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Copy-edit of My Man (Tamar Braxton song)

Hello. I do appreciate that you have taken my GOCE request for the above article, but I disagree with a lot of your edits. I do not believe Songfacts is notable enough source to use on Wikipedia, and I do not think the block quote you put in is necessary at all. I also dislike how you are changing the citation style used in the article for no apparent reason, and introducing new errors like "My man". I do not mean to come across as rude, but I take significant issues with your copy-edits. Aoba47 (talk) 03:39, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Hey. How are you? Thanks for your comments, it really helps. But I'd like to ask you to let me finish first as I check my contributions and look for errors in the end. "Patience is key to fortitude." --VisioncurveTimendi causa est nescire 03:49, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
I can understand your point. It is fair to wait for a copy-edit to be completed. But, to be completely blunt, I think you have made the article worse with your copy-edits. There is no reason to change the citation style or introduce a source like Songsfacts at any point in the editing process. And I strongly disagree with the edits you made to the prose. I have already put in a response on the GOCE page that I am withdrawing my request. Aoba47 (talk) 03:55, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
It's your right to disagree or even withdraw your request, but as I said - I haven't finished it yet (I did some polishing, removed "Songfacts", found new info from Billboard, but couldn't save my work as your revert resulted in an edit conflict). Just like you said moments earlier: I do not mean to come across as rude, but your irrational behaviour and growing impatience made it nearly impossible to copy-edit that article. In my opinion, your disrespectful interruption and cynical remark were unproductive and unacceptable, and I think you should learn to rein in your impatience and create better results from your conversations. Thanks, --VisioncurveTimendi causa est nescire 04:32, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
You do come across as very rude because you are attacking my character. I took issues with your copy-edits, but I never made it personal in the way that you have done above. I just hope that you take this experience as a way to learn and grow as a copy-editor. Aoba47 (talk) 04:50, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Please excuse me for not keeping my thoughts more private. This is all new for me (being immediately interrupted and put under pressure), and I'm sorry if I've been rude in any way. It truly was not my intention. But I do believe that you should've been a bit more patient and should have created a far more favorable atmosphere for cooperation. I think these are of utmost importance in copy-editing. Thanks. --VisioncurveTimendi causa est nescire 05:25, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

(←) Hi Visioncurve, thanks for your copy-edits on the article. I have to agree with Aoba47 here; unless there is mixed usage with a dominant style, changing the citation style is unnecessary and can in some cases be disruptive (see here). It also goes beyond what's expected of a copy-editor (i.e., improving the article's spelling, grammar, punctuation, flow etc.). Please also be careful not to introduce new errors; I find it useful to use a browser with a built-in spelling checker but a regular word-processing suite will also suffice.

If you're not sure about anything when copy-editing, you can always ask at REQ talk, which is monitored by the project coordinators. There's some general advice and links on our "How to" page. Thanks again for your copy-edits. Cheers, Baffle☿gab 04:35, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Please, read my previous answer. I explained everything there. Take care! --VisioncurveTimendi causa est nescire 04:39, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Joke/Phrase of the day

The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

— Bill Watterson

Sandbox and clearing data

Hello I am having a minor issue again, I made an article on Oshosheni Hiveluah yesterday after I moved the article I deleted the link from my sandbox but somehow I am unable to view or retrieve the article. I am unsure if I cleared my inbox too soon. How long should I wait to clear after moving an article? BoniswaB (talk) 09:21, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi, BoniswaB. I think by "moving your article" you simply deleted it. Originally, I advised you to use your sandbox page because it's an ideal place to experiment with the process of editing Wikipedia. However, creating an article is a much more difficult process, and therefore, it's advisable you go through "WP:FIRST", and have a look at the introductory tutorial to learn the basics about editing. Then, you may want to use the Article Wizard as it is very useful for new editors, because it provides relevant information on how to improve your article. When you have finished working on a sandbox/draft version and submitted it, it will go through the "Articles for creation" process where an experienced editor/reviewer will either accept your article or suggest necessary improvements (which can sometimes take several weeks, but it may also take less time provided that the draft is well-sourced and correctly formatted). Cheers, --VisioncurveTimendi causa est nescire 04:13, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Cultural appropriation

Hello, kind greetings! I have a question about my recent changes on the cultural appropriation wikipedia page. I agree with everything but I was just wondering why is wearing a Hello Kitty outfit cultural appropriation. I mean, isn't it manufactured and produced by a Japanese company Sanrio in order to be sold to people. I just don't get it. Maybe you would know better. For example if Honda manufactures a car, which is also a Japanese car manufacturer, everyone can buy it in order for them to earn money for their work and that's the point. An American can buy a Honda which is a Japnese car and that's not cultural appropriation but why can't the same American person buy clothes from a Japanese company? So why can't Avril Lavigne wear Hello Kitty outfit? Thank you for your answer! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.252.198.38 (talk) 17:53, 21 June 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.252.199.179 (talk)

Hi there. With regard to your question, I have to say that I'm not interested in that subject in any way. I reverted your edit because it appeared unconstructive, and not because I was either watchlisting that article or its subject was included in the scope of my interests. Thank you! --VisioncurveTimendi causa est nescire 07:11, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
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