User talk:Varials

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Hello, Varials!

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Happy editing! Cheers, Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 07:22, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Varials (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

I didn't make any edits that got me blocked, so I'm not sure how im supposed to say what got me blocked. I got blocked because someone, three months after I stopped participating in a talk-page, disagreed with someone who I also earlier disagreed with. That person went on to report everyone in that page who disagreed with him as being a sock-puppet. the only rationale that was used was that the other person and I used the same web browser... The person who initiated the block even said he wasn't sure. I make constructive edits to wikipedia whenever I see information that is out of date while I'm doing research, you can go through my edit history, Im not super active on wikipedia, but I like to update information when things happen, you can look at my edits on the Mikael Samuelsson page to see that I just update old abandoned pages when there's new info. Thank you for your time.

Accept reason:

Evidence to suggest sockpuppetry was weak to begin with and appear to be coincidence (see conversation below for analysis). I'm invoking IAR for the unblock. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 05:11, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unblock discussion

Your last edit on Talk:Gurpatwant Singh Pannun was in November, 2023, and was clearly over the top. Earlier, you wrote, "The user who I'm accused of meat-puppeting made comments THREE MONTHS after I did." It's only now February, so clearly that was not the case. Socks don't need close proximity as to time. Often, they are not in close proximity. You made many more edits about that person than any other subject. And the November edit was the last edit you made. So the connection is not so tenuous as you claim. I don't know if @Vanjagenije: would accept an unblock request with a WP:TOPICBAN on people in India, but we can try. I don't know if you would agree to such an unblock condition, but we can try. Thanks -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 22:34, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Deepfriedokra: I was going through my contributions and came across this SPI that I filed; Varials is adamantly claiming that he has zero relationship with the other accounts but there are too many "coincidences" to ignore which very strongly suggest that all the accounts are linked.

For one, a strong interest in music, particuarly relatively obscure, rock/metal/hardcore music, the name Varials itself is named after a metalcore band [1], lining up with the other account FrankZappaFan.

See the similarities pertaining to music- [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8]. Do note that the edit summaries are also quite similar.

Pertaining to Gurpatwant Singh Pannun- [9] +[10]+[11]+[12], [13] + [14].

+ Obvious duck behavior-[15] and [16]

It seems abundantly clear to me that these accounts are linked. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 22:51, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Deepfriedokra: What's the point of this topic ban? If this account is not the sockpuppet of K-ifyouwant, then why topic ban? If this is a sock of K-ifyouwant, then they should make appeal from that account. Vanjagenije (talk) 23:28, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Vanjagenije: To show the ability or willingness to move on, to drop that rather icky stick, To edit non contentiously. To become a constructive member of the community. (Not that I expect appellant to accept.) -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 23:38, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To reply to much of this. I live in the exact city in Surrey where the assassination of hardeep singh nijjar took place, infact I live not very far from the location. Which is why I took an interest it it.

My edit on the rock band was because I became familiar with the band after my guitar teacher who is was into them introduced me to them around 2010, as he was friends with the lead singer.

I was actually unaware there was a band called Varials, I use the name varial in my online handles and have been since around 2015, as you can see here https://imgur.com/w4YCr5q . I believe I chose the name varials with an "s" because "varial" was taken, Actually, I just now went to check it and that is the case Special:Contributions/Varial has been an account since 2005 @Vanjagenije: If you want to implement maybe a temporary indian topic ban for now, that's fine with me. However, I do still unequivalently maintain that I have no affiliation whatsoever with the accounts I'm being accused of.

I will ask at WP:AN that this request be actioned.-- Deepfriedokra (talk) 06:03, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just a quick observation. Surrey is the 11th largest city in Canada and has more than 600,000 people. More than 25% of its population is Sikh. I'm going to suggest discounting edits and editing behaviour relationships made to Gurpatwant Singh Pannun because it's quite widely covered in Canadian media 1 2 3 and anyone can write stuff about it. The CU case seem more flimsy than most (and mainly connect through browser useragent). If we're calling editors who have overlapping editing behaviour for writing about what's happening in their communities as meatpuppets, we might as well block half the editors. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 18:18, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not just the Pannun edits, which I would argue are pretty duck like and the later ones being done through a proxy and an account using proxies, but it's also the very similar edit summaries as well as overlap in niche music genres that seem like more than just coincidences. For example: Kifyouwant-"Adding background section. This information is critical the albums importance as one of the most important psychedelic rock albums of the 1960s." and "Adding citation with slight modification of information where citation was previously needed. Information from the very last page (p.394) of the Acid Archives." and Varials's "Added Activist to first sentence, as he is known more recently for his activism for the PACT act and First Responders’ Bill". On top of that, Varials edited a page on a hardcore band called Polar Bear Club and is possibly the namesake of a metal band and the other accounts had a strong interest in similar rock/hardcore/metal bands as well. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 18:33, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to address the accusations of sock puppetry once more, with the hope of clarifying any misunderstandings. My choice of username, Varial, predates my knowledge of the band "Varials," which I was not aware of until you mentioned them here. The username I have adopted has been in use by me since approximately 2015. I named myself "Varials" on wikipedia after discovering that "Varial" was already taken on Wikipedia since 2005. To differentiate, I simply added an "s" at the end. My intention was never to reference the band, as evidenced by my lack of edits on their Wikipedia page, despite my activity on other music-related articles.

Regarding the "Polar Bear Club" band, my connection is personal but not deeply involved; my guitar teacher, who is a friend of the lead singer, introduced me to their music nearly 15 years ago. This personal anecdote does not translate into an overarching interest in obscure rock bands, as my editing history shows limited activity in this genre outside of this single instance. I would ask you if you don't find it odd that I've never made an edit in the band "varials" page despite, according to you, naming myself after them?

I have noticed a pattern of behaviour from you where disagreements on the Gurpatwant Singh Pannun page, among others, lead to accusations of sock puppetry by yourself. This pattern seems to extend to multiple users who share differing viewpoints, with several ban requests currently open against those who dissent. It appears that the report feature might be used to suppress diverse opinions, which is concerning.

constructive dialogue and the importance of diverse perspectives is important in enriching Wikipedia. Accusations of sock puppetry should be based on substantial evidence and not used as a tool to silence differing viewpoints as you appear to be wielding it. Regardless, I hope we can move forward from this dispute with a renewed commitment to collaboration and respect for all contributors regardless of prespective. Varials (talk) 02:16, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am inclined to agree. Using FrankZappaFan as evidence is a red-herring because that sockpuppet was blocked with 0 edits and nothing to compare its behaviour with (other than metal band genre). Based on publicly available info, Varials and K-ifyouwant had very different account behaviour. Varials used article talk page while K-ifyouwant never touched it. Time card also revealed different habits. Varials edited mostly around late night/midnight and early afternoon (Pacific Time). K-ifyouwant edited around dinner to late night and morning. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 06:43, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With all due respect OhanaUnited, I don't think timecards are a very good argument given that all the accounts made a total of 120 edits over the span of multiple years with major gaps in between. Time cards don't seem particularly useful when all the accounts edit intermittently with negligible edit counts. Regarding Varials' use of the talk page on GSP, he had to use the talk page since his request for page protection lead to the page being ECP, and as a result, him being unable to edit the page directly. It doesn't appear that K-ifyouwant was engaged in any content disputes either, so I wouldn't say that's a compelling argument either.

Even with the small number of edits, there are 4 pretty glaring similarities between Varials and K-ifyouwant's accounts: 1) Very similar edits on Gurpatwant Pannun, making the same arguments, same content removal requests, same posts to the BLP noticeboards which was literally Burner2468's second edit overall 2) Same browser user-agent 3) Edits to the same music genres 4) Extremely similar types of detailed edit summaries

This is going to be my last post here since I've exhausted all I can say on this topic, but I would like to clear the record and reiterate that it is my genuine belief that the accounts are related, I'm not saying that merely to stifle a potential opponent. However, if admins do action this request, I appreciate Varials' commitment to moving forward and respectful interlocution and would like to work with him as well. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 08:33, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, @Suthasianhistorian8 and OhanaUnited: And this discussion sums up my dilemna. I mean, I want to unblock. But I just cannot. Might need to send this to WP:AN. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 10:38, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Concur with your analysis and endorse unblock. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:21, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did not ping. @OhanaUnited: -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 19:22, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Deepfriedokra and @OhanaUnited, please see my message on Deepfriedokra's talk page before making a decision. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 19:35, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@OhanaUnited: On the other hand, send it to WP:AN would be best. Thanks -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 20:29, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Suthasianhistorian8 I appreciate your commitment to maintaining the integrity of Wikipedia through reporting what you believe to be sock-puppets if it is indeed the case that you truly believe I was a sockpuppet, and not simply invoking an SPI in an attempt to suppress a differing viewpoint.

I do understand how you could look at the one instance of topic overlap regarding bands and have that lead you down a road which leads to a conclusion of possible sock-puppetry.

Again, I do adamantly reject this accusation, however I do understand where it originates from.

I appreciate your willingness to move forward constructively as well, and assuming I am unblocked, and we cross paths again, I look forward to working with you to enrich Wikipedia for all.

Thank you.

Varials (talk) 21:08, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Deepfriedokra I actually came because of your message in AN. Otherwise I wouldn't have seen it. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 22:27, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Too true. I keep vacillating. If you feel comfortable with the unblock, please do. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:19, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thanks for nudging me to unblock. OhanaUnited^{Talk page} 05:15, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your time and for your help @OhanaUnited @Deepfriedokra. I look forward to continuing to help Wikipedia to the best of my ability, and to @Suthasianhistorian8 Thank you again for your commitment to trying to maintain the integrity of wikipedia, and I look forward to working with you if we happen to cross paths again. Varials (talk) 22:57, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

u r welocome -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 23:56, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your kind comments Varials. I hope to work constructively with you whenever possible. Southasianhistorian8 (talk) 20:00, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]