User talk:The Clawed One/Archive 1

Alexis Response

I appreciate you sending me a letter explaining why you deleted my contribution; however, based on episodes 161 and 162, I fail to see why someone shouldn't mention Alexis and Jaden. Take note that in those two episodes, Alexis actually blushes after realizing that she is holding Jaden's hand. Also, she stammers multiple times while talking to him. At this point, there is no speculation left unchecked on this subject. Some may not believe it at first, but this detail is now beyond speculation. If you still have a problem, please respond and perhaps we can work something out. Until then, and I do apologize, but I will continue to contribute as I see fit. P.S. - I obviously don't know you, but happy belated Thanksgiving and thank you for your contributions to this wonderful website.

Response

I have started some already: List of Yu-Gi-Oh! GX episodes (Seasons 1)

{{Yu-Gi-Oh GX season navigation|1}}

Ryo Bakura

hi you reverted my edit to ryo bakura I was just wondering what was wrong with it so I won't make the same mistake twise Dark spikey

Well the info was correct, so if you want to add it again feel free, but please use proper grammar and spelling this time, and place the information in an appropriate place. The Clawed One 17:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about AMiB

It's easy to become discouraged when dealing with him. If you look at his user history, he has a habit of wandering into articles, making drastic changes, arguing with everyone that reverts his edits, and then ignores the arguments and makes the same drastic changes. Best thing to do is simply wait until others revert his changes; it always happens. Scumbag 01:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

What would be more productive is to sit down and consider, "How can I improve this article by doing some research?" Take Zeratul, for example; the entire article was written by playing Starcraft and summarizing that experience. What was the process that went into coming up with Zeratul? Has anyone written anything about Zeratul? What is there to say other than just recapping the game?

Scumbag is of the (thankfully unpopular) opinion that original research, in the form of writing your own summaries of fictional works, is sufficient for Wikipedia. We're striving for better than that. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 20:38, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it is his "work" here. Well, things that usualy done by bots will be done by a man ^^ —comment added by DarthRahn(^u/_t\^c) 22:19, 3-June, 2007 year (UTC).

Regardless of what anyone else thinks of what you've just done on the Zeratul article, I'd just like to drop a note of thanks. To me it seems much better now. -- S@bre 18:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Regarding test pages

How did you create this test page? User:The Clawed One/Protoss Hierarchy

I want to do a similar one for the UED, incorporating it with the UPL and restructuring it to a similar style to the Terran Confederacy page (which is the same basic structure as the real Confederacy page, but that's beside the point). -- S@bre 15:08, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, you'd want something like User:S@bre/United Earth Directorate, or whatever you want it named. What I did once the actual page was done was just redirect the test page to the actual article. The Clawed One 15:40, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. And thanks for getting 68.230.221.253 blocked, it's going to take a while to fix his backlog of "good faith" edits. Any idea how long it will last? -- S@bre 11:16, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Not sure, because it wasn't me. I was gonna report him, but then he got blocked before AMiB could tell me how. The Clawed One 15:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Info boxes for factions

I want to create some info boxes such as those on the [[Dominion (Star Trek)|Star Trek and Star Wars pages for StarCraft factions, but I haven't the slightest clue how to do them. Any ideas on how to do it and what to include? And by the way, I think our good faith editor has taken on the name UPL2227 or something like that. -- S@bre 12:32, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Got it. See Template:StarCraft faction. -- S@bre 17:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Protoss Empire

I'm about done with my edits to Protoss Empire. I've added a concept art insignia from Sons of Storm just so it has at least one image, and I've worked most of that Structure section I hid initially back into the various sections. -- S@bre 15:35, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Fixing the various StarCraft pages

Basically, we need to say:

• "In StarCraft, the Protoss/Zerg/Terran are depicted as..."
• "In Episode X, the... <whatever happens>"
• "In the StarCraft expansion, Brood War... <more of what happens>"
• "In the <canon/non-canon/semi-canon> StarCraft novels,... <descibe what happens>"
• "In the game... <describe gameplay>"

Each bullet point should be seperate section:

Intro

In-game

SC

BW

Novels

Gameplay

Each section should also be fairly brief, only covering the major events in the story. That should be a start. Sorry if I went overboard deleting a huge chunk of the Terran story.For now we should probably just put it in a sandbox (please make appropriate subpages) and work on the articles there. Once they get to decent quality, we can put the articles back into the mainspace. - SigmaEpsilon → ΣΕ 04:00, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I meant a paragraph for each section. And while a game guide is certainly not appropriate, it seems silly (for any race) to mention the "history" while avoiding any mention of how the race functions in game. There's no need to be so nasty toward me. Sorry for trying help. - SigmaEpsilon → ΣΕ 15:57, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

This guy's suggestions regarding writing style are appropriate. You were following this basic structure of appearances in x and y, I know I certainly needed to do the "in x this happened", I was just starting to get to grips with the UED intro in my test page. I am at fault for the history sections, but it would have been much politer for AMiB to actually tell me rather than going ahead with the deletion nomination. Maybe we should transfer all the information to sandbox pages and work on it there until it reaches a fully out-of-universe state. It will mean that there won't be any pages up for StarCraft, but AMiB can't really try to delete test pages. -- S@bre 16:51, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

StarCraft Characters

I am intersted in hearing your rational for redirecting all StarCraft characters to the parent factions. Per WP:FICTION:

• Major characters and major treatments of such matters as places and concepts in a work of fiction are covered in the article on that work. If an encyclopedic treatment of a character causes the article on the work itself to become long, that character is given a main article.
• Minor characters and minor treatments of such matters as places and concepts in a work of fiction are merged with short descriptions into a "List of characters." This list resides in the article relating to the work itself, unless it becomes long, in which case a separate article for the list is created.

From this perspective it seems odd to have all characters redirected; I (and others I'm sure) would like an explination. TomStar81 (Talk) 07:09, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Your explanation lies with A Man in Black. He is constantly moving in on mine and Clawed One's work, shoving up templates demanding immediate clean-ups of the on-going clean-ups we are already attempting to carrying out. Both Clawed One and myself want to get the articles up to WP:FICTION and so on, but he doesn't give us the chance. It all got stupid when he tried to delete the Protoss Empire article before we'd got it sorted with the out-of-universe information, claiming it hadn't got any potential. Clawed One had had enough and simply redirected the pages to stop AMiB's constant criticism of the long hours of work we have put into it. -- S@bre 12:08, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the explination. I feel better now that the issue has been cleared up. I wish you luck on the improvement drive; judging by S@bre's remarks, you're both going to need it. :)

Xel'Naga

You just redirected the Xel'Naga page to StarCraft with no prior consulting with anyone on the matter, as far as I know. I fully plan on reverting this back, but I'm only consulting with someone about it first because I'd like to hear your reasons for doing so. bob rulz 13:29, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Nice job on the whole giving me a reason thing. bob rulz 13:00, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Ah...sorry if I came off hostile then. I thought you were maybe ignoring me, sorry. But yeah, if it's not up to standard then it can be improved, rather than deleted. It's an overreaction. I would be very happy to improve it. In fact, I was the one who originally wrote it, WAY back before I had an account, back when they still let anons make articles, and much of that original text remained. I just never really went back and improved it (I did realize it needed improvement, I just never really thought about it). Either way, it's an important subject in StarCraft and I think it definitely deserves its own article. I would be happy to rewrite it, maybe initially as a user subpage, then get feedback, then put the page up again. bob rulz 00:01, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Moving SC to sandbox

I've been backing up the factions to test pages to work on without anyone attempting to delete them. I suggest you do the characters, I'll do the factions, species and novels. The links to them are up on my user page. Whilst I've stated I want no-one editting them, you are an exemption to this. -- S@bre 17:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

StarCraft Character Pages

Ah, I see. Thanks for getting back to me. Perhaps you should consider leaving notes on the talk pages, otherwise some other users may think you're totally deleting the content for no proper reason.  ;-) I'm currently trying to touch up the Terran (StarCraft) article, but the article's StarCraft synopsis is a mess with respect the "Fiction as fact" policy. I can only assume the Zerg, Protoss, and Xel'Naga articles are in the same state. --►ShadowJester07  10:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I just discovered this article, I believe its on Deckiller's "approved" list. Maybe we could go for something like this, getting rid of excess pages for not-very-major characters, such as Duke and Raszagal, confining their information into a portal-esque page like this. We will also be able to get some good proper out of universe information: StarCraft's characters as a whole are critically renowned, whilst information on specific characters in this regard is not easily come by, games journalists and reviewers have made plenty of general reception comments. Likewise, we should be able to find bits on design and conception a bit easier. With major out-of-universe rewording, we could list a few of the key minor characters and have a link to the remaining article of minor characters. The one thing I suggest we definately don't take from this Final Fantasy "number seven-thousand-and-twenty-three" (I don't know much anything the series, but isn't over ten games starting become a tinsy bit of a cash cow?) article is splitting up into different games, that would become messy and isolated with StarCraft. This approach would make the Template:StarCraft become a bit empty(ier), but the results could be worth it.

Oh, and ShadowJester, if you're going to work on the species page, try to go for something covering the species rather than the faction, it should be something like the human page. I realise that's a bit difficult to avoid stating the obvious considering Terrans are human, but you can see that such a structure from an out-of-universe perspective would certainly benefit the Zerg and Protoss articles. -- S@bre 12:20, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Here's how I see it from this perspective. These characters under this warrant their own articles based on role and prospects of out of universe information:

• Artanis (possibly)
• Duran (definately)
• Fenix (possibly)
• Kerrigan (definately)
• Mengsk (possibly)
• Raynor (definately)
• Stukov (definately, the whole reanimation thing elevates his importance way above DuGalle)
• Tassadar
• Zeratul

These can be kept within the "portal" (I don't mean a proper portal page, just that it links multiple articles):

• Aldaris
• DuGalle
• Duke
• Findlay
• Nova
• Raszagal
• Zerg Overmind

Minor characters can be mentioned in a small section with a main article link off to the list. -- S@bre 12:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Some useful sources for misc SC stuff.

Some useful references. Not all related to characters, but they may come in handy to one of us at some point. I'll update them as I find some more.

• Glynnys Talken on Sarah Kerrigan at Blizzplanet.
• Jason Hayes on composing music for Blizzard at Blizzplanet.
• Aaron Rosenburg on Queen of Blades at Blizzplanet.
• Christie Golden on Firstborn at Blizzplanet.
• Robert Clotworthy on Jim Raynor at Blizzplanet.

-- S@bre 19:41, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much. The Clawed One 19:43, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I hate to say it, but I don't think those articles are quite ready to be reuploaded. They are still mostly plot appearance based, and I don't think that is going to stand up to AMIB or more considerate moderators such as Deckiller. I'd highly recommend keeping them back and harvesting as much out-of-universe information as possible and (yes, its those words again), shortening the plot details, which I feel will still be flagged as too long and too in-universe. Saturate the plot with obvious out-of-universe statements, such as "In the middle of Episode I...," "As a result of these events, the last mission sees...", but avoid overly specific information and a running commentary of the missions, ie "in mission 1, Raynor..." followed by "in mission 2, Raynor...". Look at how I've done the new Aiur section for an example, in which I've made every effort to refer to where (but not precisely where) the information for a point comes from in the game. I'm As well as any reception stuff you may be able to find, see if you can't form a paragraph or two each on his personality and the appearance (physical and game unit, not in plot) of his character, again saying where this is displayed in game and based on external references.

I'd also recommend getting it checked over by Deckiller when done instead of uploading immediately and having AMIB pounce on it. Whilst his requirements are demanding, he knows what is needed: he's rewriting WP:FICTION, - and I want to satisfy his version if its going to become policy - has concise examples which he himself has worked on (something not present in the timescale of AMIB's backlog of edits) to aim for, and will advise you to the right direction. I know this is irritating, but if we work hard at it and we'll this right. Ideally, I think we should wait until all the related character articles are redone and then release them with a nice overview page as Deckiller has for those Final Fantasy characters. -- S@bre 20:09, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

re:StarCraft

I think it's a really nice start. The articles probably need more out-of-universe details if they are to remain separate, but with StarCraft, that shouldn't be too hard. The only other major issue that jumps out are the statistics (HP, etc.); in general, we try to avoid these unless they have real-world significance (such as "the bosses have been cited by critics as being way too difficult because of high HP"). — Deckiller 02:27, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I also think you'll find that this approach may actually yield more positive feelings for you, as you are performing tertiary research for topics that have never had encyclopedic coverage before. You'll also be attracting a wider audience and be able to submit such articles to Good Article candidates or even, in some cases, Featured article candidates. — Deckiller 02:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

If you are having difficulty finding enough information for each article, you can always take the cast of characters article approach, where you can group "development" and "reception" information together and provide sections for each character. — Deckiller 02:34, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

The library might have a collection of old gaming magazines, but I'm not 100 percent. I avoid the library like the plague; I owe a hundred dollars or so (which I will pay off once I get a job, which should be within a week or two). Speaking of which, did you know that unpaid library fines can reduce credit score by as much as 50-100 points? — Deckiller 03:07, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Ironically, I'm also 19 and unemployed, except that instead of high school, it's college. As for my girlfriend, she has a tendency to make her own mark on Wikipedia. — Deckiller 03:10, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Here's a good article: [1] It is a voice actor interview that deals with how they interact with each other (or lack thereof). I believe they mention how they never met the voice actress for Sarah, and other interesting tidbits. — Deckiller 03:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Sarah is also mentioned in this article: [2]. — Deckiller 03:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you have this one yet, but here's another good one WRT the voice acting: [3]. — Deckiller 03:23, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I just noticed your present tense comment. Yeah, present tense is usually preferred for fiction (as the events are not of this universe); sometimes, past tense or past perfect tense are used to avoid confusion, but that's rare. — Deckiller 08:09, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

GX VA Confusion: We need consensus, people!

Okay, I talked to Pete Capella over MySpace. Basically, he didn't tell me he played, but he mentioned that a lot of the info about him on Wiki is wrong (he's even tried to change it himself, but it kept getting messed up.) In short, he said it was pretty much a losing battle (but gave props for trying.) I've also spoken to another user here who said that usually VA's for characters are figured out by comparing them to known roles, and that even though it's technically original research and against the rules, it's often accepted if there's a common consensus about it. I think it's high time we try to figure this thing out about Chazz and Jaden's true VAs (Again, for the record, I tried to get it from the Capella's mouth, but didn't get a straight answer.) We can't just go by "This info was here first" clause, because it stands to be revised. I mean, just listen to Silver (Capella's totally confirmed role); if we compared him to Jaden and Chazz, who would it be said to be? Sure, we gotta try to get proof (if anyone wants to talk to Capella themselves, power to ya), but we also need to apply some logic here, a little "original research". Maybe without total proof it won't do squat, but if we can't go by 4Kids' ambiguous crediting system, and we don't have an answer from the man himself, what's there left to do? Listen up and figure it out ourselves with what we do verifiably know. All I have to go on is Silver; if anyone has another character that you're sure sounds like Chazz or Jaden, or you know one of their supposed VA's confirmed roles, speak up! Maybe he's right and that it is a losing battle to change it, but I'm not going to back down just yet, thank you very much. So tell me: who wants to figure this out once and for all, and not just settle for the wrong info rotting it the water like this?Batwing321 03:24, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Draft of character overview page

As I said on my talk page, I threw together a quick structure we can use:

User:S@bre/Characters of StarCraft. When we get round to the appropriate characters, shove them in there. -- S@bre 20:52, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Minor characters will not be included on that overview page, they will be in their own specially reworded article that is linked to under the "main article" template with an accompanying paragraph on the overview page. You know,

--Minor characters--

Main article minor characters in starCraft series.

bit of blabber about supporting characters.

Do you mind if we keep this conversation on one page? I hate having to dash back-and-forth for answers. -- S@bre 21:21, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

no problem. Also, what do you think of the Raynor and Kerrigan articles? I'm working on Zeratul's character section now. The Clawed One 21:25, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I love the stuff you've done for the character on Raynor, it's perfect. Kerrigan one is coming along very well as well, although due to the new article structure I'd only have one infobox. After all, we only have one for other characters such as Raynor who go through a change of alleigance. A piccie from the cinematics would be good, I'll deal with that side of it though. Not today though, I've been at UEA for most of it. -- S@bre 21:32, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I've merged that "list of major characters" into User:S@bre/Characters of StarCraft and redirected the page. The page has been filled in a bit, you should have a better understanding of what I was going on about now, the minor characters are still all on a separate page linked from the overview page: User:S@bre/Minor characters in StarCraft -- S@bre 11:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Consistent SC portraits

Know anywhere where I can get a full set of SC hero portraits to use for the overview page? I want it to look consistent, and the portraits are the most obvious thing to use (other images such as from cinematics and so on can be used on the main article pages). Is there anywhere I can get them save sitting in-game and print-screening them? There were some on SC legacy at one point (used for the quotes) but they don't load any more. -- S@bre 09:57, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Never mind, I've managed to use the Brood War heroes page to create a generic set with simple bordering for use on the article. I just need to do Raszagal and Stukov, as well as to throw one together for Findlay and Nova -- S@bre 11:51, 8 July 2007 (UTC).

How's this? All consistent in style, although I whipped together Findlay and Nova's ones from cinematic trailers. Now we can use the other images in any main articles. I've also uploaded those two pieces of concept art you asked for. They are sitting in the appropriate articles, fully captioned, licensed and rationaled. -- S@bre 15:32, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Fenix

The question I've been asking myself over the last hour or so is the placement of Fenix. He seems to always be there in the campaigns, unlike Duke for instance, but he never really does anything. Should we shove him as a primary main character or a just a main character. If we put him in the former, should we do a main article for him? -- S@bre 16:43, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Hm....I'd say we try an article just for him and see how much we can come up with, and if it's not much, then we move him in with Aldaris and Duke. The Clawed One 16:48, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Images

Don't ask me to upload any more images until the articles go live. Tell me which ones you want by all means, but I won't upload any more until the articles are live because I don't want to go through this again. -- Sabre 11:01, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Matrix

"Any similarity between the Matrix and the Allspark is already noted on the Allspark page, and there's no good reason why the page needs an entirely new heading to say what another, more appropriate article discusses at length. Unless you have anything but your observations of the movie's content, and no written source to back the claim up, it is still direct observation and OR. The Clawed One 15:42, 12 July 2007 (UTC)"

That's a ridiculous argument. You're saying that it is perfectly viable for one page but not another? That is a direct contraditcion of your earlier arguments where you state that it is not acceptable from a Wiki standpoint. You can't have it both ways. Think of it like this: The Battle of Gettysburg should be listed on BOTH the General Lee page and the General Grant page. Your argument is like saying, "since it's talked about on the General Lee page, we shouldn't even mention it on the General Grant page." Think about it. VigilancePrime 15:47, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of StarCraft universe

Should we put StarCraft universe up for AfD? It's horribly written and often repeating stuff from the main StarCraft article, anything not covered by those two catergories is also going to be elaborated in much better detail in the redo. -- Sabre 16:23, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

July 2007

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Autobot Matrix of Leadership. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content which gains a consensus among editors. The other edit warrior has also been warned. Angus Lepper^{(T, C, D)} 16:25, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

No, removing vandalism isn't, but the definition of vandalism for 3RR is very tight. Continue if you like, but I suggest you seek a third opinion (although, if an admin's agreed with you, I won't interfere too much again unless I think it's getting totally out of hand). Angus Lepper^{(T, C, D)} 16:30, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I've requested page protection, and also tagged a comment onto that request, asking the reviewing admin to take a look at the dispute. Other than that, I'm not really sure what you can do other than post at WP:RFC (try that first!) or Administrator's Noticeboard/Incidents or and hope someone agrees with you. Angus Lepper^{(T, C, D)} 16:37, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Starcraft: Templar Caste and other SC edits?

I reverted your edit of redirecting the Templar Caste article to the main Protoss page. There was an article on the Templar Caste, so why didn't you leave it? I've noticed that you've done this quite a few times. e.g.: You linked two of the broods to the Zerg page, even though there's an article on broods, where they should've been linked to.

A lot of content is being cut off because of this. What exactly are you doing?

Raynor article

I think we're just about done all we can for the Raynor article, I've referenced it with a number of secondary sources and a heap load of tertiary ones, and although I can't find anything further to extend the reception section, I'd say it's just about ready to be moved to the mainspace. I'd appreciate some help regarding finishing off the character page, as we can then add that page to the StarCraft template and have Raynor's article in all it's new glory linked from there. -- Sabre 15:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Go right ahead. Dunno whether it should be done by moving the page to overwrite the old one or to copy and paste it over the old one as either way an edit history will be lost. I'd personally try for moving it over, but I'll leave that decision to you. -- Sabre 16:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

re:StarCraft

Sorry, I've been on an unannounced Wikibreak. Jim's article is quite good, and Sarah's article is very nice (it just needs inline citations). However, Alexei might not be able to get his own article (no out-of-universe information); a merge for that character wouldn't be too hard. — Deckiller 18:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Ah, ok. Thanks.

Factions and species

I've been thinking about how to do the factions after we've done the characters. I think that the best way to proceed with them is instead of creating main articles when very little out-of-universe information is available, we put them in a (no doubt lengthy) section on their prospective species pages. The species pages need a major rewrite, but I think a structure like this may work:

• Development (design, particularly looking at earlier incarnations in betas. SC legacy has stuff on this.)
  • Physiology/Biology (I've got some nice brain pictures of a Protoss, Terran and a hydralisk for this. For the Zerg, its a matter of describing the command structure and life cycle.)
• Gameplay (species as a playable race in-game)
• Contextual history (ie basic backstory of the species from manual, kept as short and as out-of-universe as humanily possible).
• Factions (different sections and subsections for various factions of the race, with appearances and politics, etc. For the Zerg it would only be the Broods.)

The trick is when dealing with the history side of it, particularly with the manual, we need to avoid slipping into the in-universe style that scuttled the Protoss Empire and Terran Confederacy articles. We also don't want lists of units of heroes as there are at the moment. However, this is a way off, we still need to get the character overview page done, along with the articles for Kerrigan, Stukov, Zeratul and minor characters. Is it worth doing one for Tassadar? Despite being an absolutely key character, there's not much out-of-universe information available. -- Sabre 12:14, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about what's going on with the Raynor article. AMIB is right to an extent: more stuff is useful, but it's a gradual process: there's not much more we can do for it at the moment, it's all about time: other people will come, they will improve it, everyone is satisfied if not happy. If push comes to shove, it won't be hard to merge the article into the characters article, and we can re-extend back into a main article upon SC2's release (a long time, but a whole bucket worth of information will come along with SC2's release). I did ask for AMIB's opinion, and you have to admit he's been more helpful than in the past - whilst his expectations are to still be urging on the immediate, millions of templates haven't been splashed over the article. And he's not trying to delete it like in the Protoss Empire article, only relocate it - the debate is over whether the information warrants a dedicated article, not that the information is useless. I've asked for Deckiller's contribution in the talk page - he is a bit more understanding and optimistic than AMIB, and should provide a third opinion - an opinion (as I seem to keep saying) a bit more valuable due to his involvement in Wikipedia policy. After all, Wikipedia is supposed to be done on consensus. But until we get the other character articles up, there isn't much to worry about: the Zeratul and definately the Kerrigan articles have a bit more information available than Raynor does, we should be able to get them out with somewhat less criticism. And we can't merge the Raynor article into the character overview page until the page is completed, so there's plenty of time for optimisation of the Raynor article.

Still, I think we should avoid any further involvement with AMIB for the moment. His stubborness makes direct debate fairly futile and we don't want things to degrade and get out of hand again and be back at square one a second time. -- Sabre 22:00, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, let's just keep working at what we've got. We'll cross any other obstacles as they appear.

Re:

Hold back on the Stukov page. With regards to latest comments on the Raynor article from Deckiller, we have no out of universe information available for Stukov. I think we're better off putting Stukov in the main characters page. I was going to try to work on the references and what-not of the Zeratul and Kerrigan articles, but I've not had much time to do so recently. I didn't even know you had started the Tassadar one. I think we've moved a bit prematurely.

Don't feel that it didn't work simply because AMIB said that a full article is not warranted. You can guarentee on him taking the pesimistic view, but Deckiller's views are far more optimistic. It's working, its just a long process and there will be some hiccups. We can still do this. -- Sabre 10:42, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

He has a point but no-one is right in this circumstance. He isn't trying to delete anything, his gripe is only with whether there is sufficient information available to warrant a main article. There is no attempt to undermine us or anything in that manner. I can see where he is coming from, and in their current, premature states I would agree to merge the Kerrigan, Zeratul and Tassadar articles into the character one. However, Deckiller also has a point and the same policies to back him up. Neither is right, neither is wrong. There is no reason to give up, this issue is merely point of view and can be rode through on consensus. At the moment, AMIB's opinion on the Raynor article is a bit outnumbered. Stick with it, let's sort out the Kerrigan and Zeratul articles and get the character one up. -- Sabre 14:42, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: The Colbert Report

You're welcome. I can't seem to find any citations for Luis, Meg, Jimmy, Killer, or The Professor, though... Have any ideas? Also, would you mind if I cut down on the "Set" info per comments on the Candidates page? Cheers, Jude. 04:12, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

What if I delete the characters without references? I couldn't find any reputable sources for those five at all, and they can't be unreferenced for a FA. It's the only idea I can think of. Anyway, I'll get to work on the Set section. Cheers, Jude. 04:42, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Alright. Actually, I started editing wikipedia right after Colbert told viewers to edit the Elephants article(not that I vandalized Elephants). And eventually I got a username, and now I'm working on his article. It's pretty funny to me. Cheers, Jude. 05:04, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I feel the same way. Although it's better publicity than the site gets when people sue over false information. --Jude. 05:18, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Help

You said if I needed your help I just had to ask. Well, I do need your help. I could really use some help over at User:S@bre/Minor characters in StarCraft. I've done Taladrin (except references), I'd appreciate it if you could redo a couple of characters in that nice out-of-universe style, only one or two paragraphs long - it's too much work for me to do at a decent rate alone. Also, if you wouldn't mind dropping in and doing one or two characters at User:S@bre/Characters of StarCraft as well, I'd highly appreciate it. If you do Zeratul, Kerrigan or Raynor, they just need to be really short summaries of the character with as little plot information as possible, no more than a paragraph (see the paragraphs for characters with main articles here) otherwise there's no point for the main article. -- Sabre 16:09, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

You always seem better at finding stuff on reception than I am, would you mind digging up any references you can find that relate to reception (and if possible the creation) of the characters of StarCraft for User:S@bre/Characters of StarCraft? I need general reception, but reception for individual characters is also useful. The characters are nearing completion (six left) and I need to get those two sections up soon. By the way, thanks for the assist with the minor characters.-- Sabre 16:29, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Yu-Gi-Oh GX season Four

I had several dreams about those titles, the first arc is a Grand Prix, and the second arc is about a metorite that crashes on the island and inside is a alien named Hoshiko.

Valerian Mengsk

Considering you'll probably find out before I do, could you direct me to any artwork or cinematic images of Valerian Mengsk in the event any appear? Considering he's confirmed for SC2 and is a major character in Firstborn, I've begun to set him up a section under "other main characters", but he'll be the only one in the article without a picture. If one turns up, send it my way and I'll whip it into that consistent portrait style for the article. -- Sabre 16:14, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Aye, Ramsay does need to go up, but in currrent status he's only a novel character and unlike Valerian was unlikely to enter the games, so I'll put him in minor characters. Mind you, there's still that extensive backlog of charaters to add to the minor characters article, but I can work on adding them after the main characters, locations, species, capital ships and psionic technology articles have been sorted out. Till then, I can just flag the article up as an incomplete list. Oh, and any information on casting would be appreciated too, that didn't sound much like Clotworthy to me. -- Sabre 16:21, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh. Too late, I beat you to it :) - Sabre 16:26, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Good. I won't add anything further on casting on Raynor then. By the way, I was just browsing Legacy for anything that might be of use to me and noticed the Confederate flag in use on the factions page and am offering this accurate one I put together for the Confederacy article earlier. You might find it useful. -- Sabre 17:28, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. That should do, but let me know if you come across any higher resolution versions of that picture. Mind you, I think they might upload any new concept art shown at Blizzcon to the SC2 site within the next few days. -- Sabre 17:36, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Characters

Fancy doing the section on Arcturus Mengsk to finish the character section of the article (save for referencing, I'll sort that out) off? -- Sabre 17:47, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Yay! The characters are done! Now we just need to get some sources up for conception, design and reception and we're done for the main characters article, but that's all I'm doing for today... By the way, do you have a reference for that bit on Mengsk and the Leviathan -- Sabre 19:15, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I think that's going the wrong way. I had planned to shove some kind of extra brief list of units in the species pages, but not having anything other than what the manual says the units are for. I think that the capital ships article (in this sense I'm 99% sure it's supposed to be capital, not capitol, in American-incorrect-English, it's certainly represented that way here) is better used for the named ships, descriptions of their roles with any available commentary on their design in novels and cinematic construction. By the way, I've done critical reception in the main characters article. It's at as neutral a point of view as remotely possible, they simply didn't recieve any major criticism anywhere respectable... But now that just leaves the development section, and that's where I need your help: finding reviews for reception is easily done, but finding stuff about the creation of characters/story (the two are deeply interlinked) isn't as simple. Other than who originally thought them (from the manual credits) and two interviews (Clotworthy and Campbell), I've got nothing. But once that's done, all that needs to be done is reuploading the images and it can be moved out. I think we need a champagne bottle to celebrate, we've been working on it solid for what, two months? -- Sabre 15:08, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

We're not merging the "Raynor-Kerry-Zerry" articles, we're just going to borrow their creation sources and try to apply it to all characters. Something along the lines of "Blizzard has not released much information regarding the development of the characters, but the actors Talken and Clotworthy have revealed in interviews that..." I'll find some way to summarise it. As far as the capital ships go, that's much better. -- Sabre 09:08, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm noticing some talk on major revamping of the site at SC Legacy. I'm not about to find all those references that link to the dialogue for the missions disappear am I? -- Sabre 23:36, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Seems fine to me, we just need to make sure that everything that goes into that section in the future is fully referenced, it being about an unreleased game and all. -- Sabre 09:37, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Can you shove up StarCraft: Enslavers II and Template:StarCraft storyline for afd? The first as it was missed in the deletion that got rid of the Episode articles and the one that just recently got rid of the prequel and hidden mission articles and the template as it's redundant due to those deletions and in the light of Template:StarCraft. I haven't a clue how to do it myself. -- Sabre 09:58, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I hope Otto doesn't go to the novels, I don't really want them deleted before I have a chance to work on them. -- Sabre 20:06, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I've started the creation section on the characters page. It's not much, but I'm squeezing it dry. Anything you can add would be appreciated. -- Sabre 22:09, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I can't really do much more for the characters article (unfortunately I can't dig any information out of that article you gave me, but maybe I'm just not looking hard enough). I'm going to move it out today. -- Sabre 09:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

That's that: the article has been moved out, the images have been reuploaded, i've flagged the conception section as a stub, I've sorted the redirects and the redirects to the redirects and the disambiguation pages, I've added a summary to the StarCraft article with the link, I've added it to the universe section of Template:StarCraft, and I've added the various templates and Wikiprojects to the talk page. And I've also added a template saying we're maintaining the article on the talk page. Did I miss anything? :) -- Sabre 11:56, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I undid the edit to the template. It's probably better to keep it contained within one article, otherwise people might feel encouraged to start recreating individual articles for other characters. It's best just to leave it so that if people want to see the extended information for Raynor, Kerrigan and Zeratul, they have to go through the characters article or type it in the search box as with all other characters. -- Sabre 16:02, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

TurkmenstanSSR

Report him. This dude's an obvious troll account. -WarthogDemon 21:47, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I've noticed. :) It's been rather insane with those pages. -WarthogDemon 21:56, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Question

I am an editor for Yu-Gi-Oh! Wikia, and what we're doing is putting images on the episode lists; http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Yu-Gi-Oh%21_GX_Episode_Listing, and i was thinking if we could do that over here to improve the Yu-Gi-Oh! GX media and release information with some color. I noticed from your edits that you are a big Yu-Gi-Oh! Fan, so maybe you can come over to Yu-Gi-Oh! Wikia!!

See you there....and happy editing!

Also have the Heart of the Cards!!!