User talk:ThatDohDude

Persian alphabet

I'll be honest, I really don't remember what I changed. In the revision history, it looks like I just removed some blank lines. Why did you revert it? --JDspeeder1 (talk) 11:19, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You accidentally removed the side bar that had the alphabet written on it. ThatDohDude (talk) 03:25, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Are you real

Are you real 115.186.189.85 (talk) 12:52, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes... ThatDohDude (talk) 20:58, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Babur

His birth name is already in the infobox in the special parameter for that... Giant Snowman 10:55, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well aware, but the standard for Mughal emperors is to also have their native names write below their English names at the top of the infobox. Check out other Mughal emperor's infoboxes just for proof: Akbar, Humayun, Jahangir, Shah Jahan, Aurangzeb, Bahadur Shah II... the list goes on. ThatDohDude (talk) 05:06, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yeah! And one other thing... at the top of the infobox, write below their English names, the format for writing the native names of Mughal emperors would be writing their full name in Persian, which in Babur's case would be ظهیرالدین محمد; (Zahir ud-din Muhammad), then writing their royal name write after it, seperated by a space, making their infobox name at the top be ظهیرالدین محمد بابر; (Zahir ud-din Muhammad Babur). ThatDohDude (talk) 05:10, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You are edit warring at Babur. Edit summaries are not the place for declarations about what an editor will or will not do. Do not edit war. The correct procedure is to explain on the article talk page (not here) why your edits should be retained. Johnuniq (talk) 05:50, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Coding

Hey, do you make all the edits in Wikipedia or, was it specifically for the Balti Page?

Also, if you send me a link to the article related to my question, it’ll help me get answers to many many questions related to coding? 2401:4900:43AE:A334:4500:2F51:95C3:85FB (talk) 14:59, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, I'm simply one of many thousands of editors on this site. Can you be more specific? What do you mean by "questions related to coding"? ThatDohDude (talk) 02:22, 15 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kurukh-Malto languages moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Kurukh-Malto languages, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:33, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Persian pronunciations

Hi ThatDohDude! You have added a lot of Persian pronunciations in numerous articles, but please make sure that these conform to our key Help:IPA/Persian, especially with regards to [æ] and [ɒː]. Please check and correct your additions accordingly. Thank you. –Austronesier (talk) 17:17, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Austronesier:, Please note that the dialect of Persian spoken by all the rulers listed, is different than that of Tehrani Persian, which is what you have listed the vowels for. They spoke variations of Persian, and had names in variations, that are more close to contemporary Eastern Persian dialects such as Hazaragi. Vowels worked quite differently in this dialect, which is explored with more in-depth analysis in this article. The way the Mughals utilized vowels in Persian is also apparent in modern day Urdu and Punjabi pronunciations of the same words, although not the exact same.
If needed, I am more than happy to "standardize" the IPA pronunciations to what fits modern-day Tehrani pronunciation, however, that would be prone to making the transliterations incorrect. I'd appreciate a follow-up. ThatDohDude (talk) 02:30, 29 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bahadur Shah Zafar

Thanks so much for fixing the Urdu transliteration on the article. I had one question: as far as I'm aware, anything language tagged Urdu automatically displays as nastaliq, so is it necessary to include the nq tag? I was under the impression that the goal was to use as few tags as possible to lower the undue weight of the page by streamlining that kind of stuff? if not, and my display settings are just defaulting it to nastaliq and it's not standard, then I may be entirely wrong. -Evansknight (talk) 14:07, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Evansknight:, I'm pretty sure somehow your display settings default it to Nastaliq. Wikipedia has yet to give the Urdu language tag a distinct font, so as of right now, the nq tag is required. However on the Urdu Wikipedia, this isn't the case, so maybe in the near future Nastaliq will be the default script for Urdu on the English Wikipedia as well, but as it stands, that does not appear to be the case. ThatDohDude (talk) 20:16, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Duly noted! -Evansknight (talk) 16:13, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Nastaliq Fonts

I noticed that in a lot of the Nastaliq Images I added, you remade them and made it better like in and . Can you tell me how you did it? Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 13:02, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Muhafiz-e-Pakistan: I am sure there are a lot of ways to make these images, however, I'll explain my method. I actually used a free photo editor called "Photoscape X", but really, any photo editor that lets you write with fonts that are installed on your computer can work.
However, to actually make these Nastaliq images, you'll need proper fonts installed on your computer. The ones I use include Gulzar Nastaliq, Urdu Typesetting, Jameel Noori Nastaleeq, or Noto Nastaliq Urdu. You can experiment with these fonts and see which works best for you. However, all of these fonts run into the problem of not having all possible Perso-Arabic characters. More often than not, they only support writing for Arabic, Persian, and Urdu, but not any additional characters that may be found in other languages. However, another font called Awami Nastaliq has a very large character set that supports almost all Perso-Arabic characters, including the very weird ones. However, Awami Nastaliq isn't compatible with most photo editors so it might not be the most practical to use.
I hope this helped, and best of wishes editing Wikipedia articles in the future! ThatDohDude (talk) 17:52, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much! Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 19:48, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

But how do you do it if Awami doesn't work? The file you used on the Ushoji page uses "ݜ", which is not supported by any of the fonts above? So can you tell me which fonts actually work for it? Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 20:57, 4 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Muhafiz-e-Pakistan: Unfortunately, there is no easy way to deal with those types of characters. As mentioned previously, the only font (that I know of) that has the capability of supporting such characters is Awami Nastaliq, however, this font is only compatible with a select few softwares. Therefore, I don't use it for my images. Instead, I have images of all the nuqtas/diacritics on my computer, and when I need to make an image that uses these nuqtas, I insert them in and match the sizes and drag the image to where it fits.
I'm assuming that you are using Noto Nastaliq Urdu, so I am going to send you links for all the nuqtas and diacritics in that font. Download these and insert them into the image you are working on and MAKE SURE TO RESIZE THEM TO THE FONT SIZE OF THE REST OF YOUR CHARACTERS, or else, it will look unusual.

Small Tah Diacritic: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Small_Tah.png
Single Nuqta: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Singular_Nuqta.png
Double Nuqta: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Double_Nuqta.png
Triple Nuqta: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Triple_Nuqta.png
Quadruple Nuqta: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Quadruple_Nuqta.png

I hope this helped! If you have any further questions, feel free to let me know! ThatDohDude (talk) 18:07, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much, this will help me a lot in the future! Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 18:57, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also is it okay if I change the Dameli page because it is not "دامیلی" it is "دمیلی" according to FLI - https://fli-online.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/dameli-alf-bay-.pdf Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 11:00, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine! ThatDohDude (talk) 23:11, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And can I change it to ‬اُݜوجو because that is what FLI says it is - [1], and sorry for disturbing you. Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 17:03, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Go ahead! ThatDohDude (talk) 21:00, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

	The Writer's Barnstar
	This user has helped a lot with the pages for languages written in the Arabic script. He has also helped with many other articles relating to Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey, Iraq, and Tajikistan. Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 18:59, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! We will fix Arabic script Wikipedia pages together as a community, Inshallah. ThatDohDude (talk) 22:43, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@ThatDohDude: this is English wikipedia. Any foreign language should not be on the infobox, yet you're re-adding / adding names of rulers / states in foreign languages (Persian). And please stop adding made up "Kipchak" names. Beshogur (talk) 09:17, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What are you talking about? Yes, sure, this is in English Wikipedia. But when an article is on a foreign; You have to implement the native name of the content in question, both after their English name on the article, which is now done as a note, as you have definitely noticed, AND below their English names on the article's infobox.
You've clearly been on Wikipedia for a while; there's no way you haven't noticed this convention- I mean, take a look at any country, or their leaders' articles? It's all the same.
So uhh.. Why do you seem to always draw the line the second the article in question enters the Turco-Mongol or Turco-Persian sphere; This isn't the first time you've taken problem with a seemingly harmless language add-in.
At least in the context of my Golden Horde-related edits, I noticed that a lot of the rulers' actual name spellings (in Arabic) were seriously getting lost to time. Either there was no known form, or their spellings would be inconsistent across Wikipedia. These rulers **used** Arabic script to write their own names, however, so the spellings weren't actually lost. Going through coin listing websites, you can see exactly how the rulers would have written their names- not in Persian, Chagatai or Arabic, but in their native Cuman/Kypchak tongue.
Kypchak is NOT a made up language (literally check Wiktionary, the language is documented decently well there, with noticeable differences from Chagatai), nor am I making out the spellings. They're all literally from Golden Horde coin databases straight from the era.
I understand sometimes it can cause clutter, so I'd be down to make these spelling notes; as is the current convention, but in any case, just write me out a reply and tell me what you think.
Golden Horde Coins Database: https://xn----8sbanh2blw.xn--p1ai/articles/litera/silver-coins-khans-golden-horde.html ThatDohDude (talk) 15:00, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You have to implement the native name of the content in question that's not what you do. For states yes, then it's not in bold, for rulers no. There is no foreign name parametre for the purple section in the infobox template.

They're not "harmles", they're nonsense. Who can read some Perso-Arabic script on the infobox? Also probably a lot of those names are made up. "Arabic/Persian/Kypchak/Turki", etc. What are these? They don't even have the same script. They're slightly different Kypchak is NOT a made up language I am talking about Perso-Arabic names you're putting on the infobox. What are these sources? Do you have a proof that Ulug Ulus is written in that "اولوغ اولوس‎" way in Kipchak? Or do you have a proof that the Uzbek Khanate is called "اوزبک خانلیغی‎"? These are pretty much made up. So that's what I'm saying. Beshogur (talk) 18:24, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The reason why sometimes their names have different spellings (Kypchak and Chagatai/Persian) is because the languages sometimes had different writing schemes. One example I can think of off the top of my head is "تمور - tämür" in Kypchak vs. "تیمور - temür in Chagatai (and by extension Persian)". The rulers themselves had coins printed of their names (and the city it was printed in) on coins, which were written in Kypchak. As such, coin databases (like the link I sent above) are my sources for the Kypchak names.
The reason why I also include Chagatai and Persian is because, even though it makes the page more cluttered, these two languages always held lingua-franca esque status in the Islamic Turco-Mongol world. Chagatai and Persian were also much more standardised, so their writings of their names, although not used on coins, are more recognizable/accepted. (My source for Chagatai/Persian spellings is obviously Jami' al-tawarikh.) That's why no one knows Ulugh Muhammad as "Muhammad Khan", even though that's his actual Kypchak name, we just call him by his Chagatai/Persian name; Ulugh Muhammad.
I understand all of this is too confusing, which is why I agree that I should start putting the ruler names as notes to reduce clutter; only visible when the reader wants it to be- but I think this mess is a good reflection of the Golden Horde's syncretism anyway, and I also really don't want to see this ancient writing tradition dissappear to time because of lack of documentation. Prior to my edits, the only place you could even find these Kypchak names was in obscure Russian archaeology books/sites.

I also noticed you got confused regarding why I switched to Volga Turki for the Qasim Khanate. That's because the progression from Kypchak to Tatar goes: Kypchak > Volga Turki/Old Tatar/Iske Imla > Tatar. The transition from Kypchak to Volga Turki is said to be during the breakup of the Golden Horde; centralization decreased so Kypchak dialects diverged. Me switching the names was more of a symbolic representation of this history. Anyway, let me know what you think I should do going forward. ThatDohDude (talk) 18:58, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a proof that these coinages are in Kipchak and not in Arabic? Where does it state it exactly?

I am not against inclusions of those names. I am simply against any foreign names (does not matter alphabet) inclusion to the purple box. Template:Infobox royalty has a section for foreign names (see Ottoman sultans' articles). Also I don't understand why your additions have always bold text.

| native_lang1 =

| native_lang1_name1 =

or

| full name =

For the state names, I am wondering what those sources are? That's why I removed them. What's the source that Uzbek Khanate is called something like "Uzbek Khanligi" back then? Or Chagatai Khanate (saw there something similar before). This is pure spectulation.

Last, I am not against Ulug Ulus' Perso-Arabic inclusion, I am simply curious where you found the spelling? Beshogur (talk) 08:44, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[2] also checked his coin, I suggest simply using Ulugh Muhammad^[a] or Mahmud Khan (محمد خان‎; 1405–1445) on the lead

^ explanatory note why he's called ulugh (ie. great)

Beshogur (talk) 09:35, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Beshogur: Alright, just to get this out of the way, I was confusing modern-day leader infoboxes with older rulers. I didn't realize it was unconventional to add the names to the purple section of the infoboxes. I'll go through and remove any such edits I've made.

As for your question regarding how I know it's Kypchak and not Arabic; Well it's kind of complicated. Technically it IS "Arabic", if you're talking about the script it's written in. However, you simply cannot consider it to be the "Arabic language". Many of the rulers' names are not Arabic at all, having Mongolian, Turkic, or Iranic origins. However, even if the rulers' names were completely in Arabic, you still wouldn't use the Arabic language template on Wikipedia to portray the rulers. This is because to an extent, the native name transcription is also supposed to give context on the rulers' origins, and they certainly weren't Arab! One good example of this that I can think of is with Ottoman rulers; Even though Suleiman the Magnificent's name was written completely in Arabic, on Wikipedia, it's transcribed on his article as Ottoman Turkish since that's the actual language he was attributed to.
There are also more niche differences in the scripts of the coins and Arabic/Persian/Chagatai. I've already touched on its differences with the latter two, but as for Arabic, the writings on the coin use the dotless ya (ی) rather than the Arabic ya with two dots (ي) (albeit there are also more examples of things like this). This is some more direct evidence that it isn't just Arabic.
Also in case you forgot, the reason why I concluded the script on the coins aren't Persian/Chagatai is because of divergences in spelling from the latter two which corresponded with Kypchak spelling traditions (تمور/tämür vs تیمور/temür) (This also further proves it isn't Arabic, as Arabic also uses the latter spelling not shown in the coins; تيمور/taymūr).

I also do agree with your logic for the nations such as the Uzbek Khanate; Although I can confidently say that the spellings I used were accurate, it is literally impossible to find out what the states actually referred to themselves as. Heck, there's a high chance they didn't even actually have a set-in-place name! My additions were simply translations of their common names into what they would've written, but yeah, I won't be adding them back and will respect your reverts on those. Looking forward to hearing back. ThatDohDude (talk) 20:48, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I added "اولوغ اولوس" back. Confirmed that it is used in Kipchak (found through google books). Beshogur (talk) 19:52, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] xplanatory note why he's called ulugh (ie. great)

[a]