User talk:Seangypsy

Thanks for contributing to the article Alan Scott-Moncrieff. However, one of Wikipedia's core policies is that contributions must be verifiable through reliable sources, preferably using inline citations. Please help by adding more sources to the article you edited, and/or by clarifying how the sources already given support the claims (see here for how to do inline referencing). If you need further help, you can look at Help:Menu/Editing Wikipedia, or ask at the Teahouse, or just ask me. Thank you. Dormskirk (talk) 00:45, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi Dormskirk.

Appreciate you are doing a valuable job, Alan Scott-Moncrieff was my grandfather so anything I put up is correct or I believe to be correct. I'm planning to revamp his web page with a fair bit more information that isn't already up there. I have researched his life, collected and organised his papers and photos and have as much evidence as anybody will ever have about him but how do I prove the things I write are correct to your satisfaction. The rejections you made last night were e.g Charles Kenneth Scott-Moncrieff was his first cousin and James IV was his twelfth grandfather but what would be acceptable as proof - I know these facts to be correct but how do I prove to you? Since I plan to put the military story of his life up there with his family background (in the Wikipedia house style) and maybe one or two of the more fascinating stories do you have any steer what you will and won't reject. I am busy with family and work etc, this isn't a retirement project but something I want to do to honour his memory but I don't have oodles of time.

Best wishes, Sean Seangypsy (talk) 11:44, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi - The key point is that any new text needs to be supported by references which cite reliable independent published sources. Please see WP:RS which gives guidance. Best wishes, Dormskirk (talk) 12:04, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

I understand. I have so much information that would bring his page to life and make him live again but citing in independent published sources will be difficult. I plan to write a draft as indicated below and submit for review; would it be best to send it to you ? Does seem bonkers that there is no way to prove to you the simple stuff such as CK Scott Moncrieff being his first cousin. My uncle will have all the family links on Ancestry.com but I'm guessing thats no use to you. Seangypsy (talk) 12:14, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Ancestry.com is not an acceptable source per WP:ANCESTRY. I can only restate that you need to use reliable independent published sources. Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 12:51, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

You can submit suggested edits one by one on the article's talk page with the {{request edit}} template and a reliable source. Please don't submit a new draft of the article it is not likely to be suitable. Theroadislong (talk) 12:55, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Maybe my last question on this as I'm feeling rather defeated by the complexity, real shame as I have fantastic information and research about Alan's life but hard to verify, this would be a retirement project in the future to try to verify everything I have with navy records. First Question: Would military / navy record references be acceptable ?and last and the Second Question is that with regard to C.K.Scott-Moncrieff being Alan's first cousin I have a copy of C.K.Scott Moncrieff's published book "Chasing Lost Time", in the photos from page 182 there is a family photo of Charles with Alan Scott- Moncrieff. Charles is third on the back row on the left and Alan dead centre 5th in on the front row with a child in front of him but it doesn't say that Alan is his first cousin (which he was). Is that sufficient for verifiability ? Seangypsy (talk) 13:05, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

No that would not be a suitable reference, we don't merely "verify" things here, we report on what reliable independent published sources say. I'm afraid that your "fantastic information and research" is of no use to us unless it has been published elsewhere. Theroadislong (talk) 13:19, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi.

C.K. Scott-Moncrieff's book is a reliable independent published source. Its one of the main sources for information about his life written by his great great niece. Is the problem that it doesn't state that Alan is his first cousin or is the family picture with both of them in it insufficient. Your response seems to be saying that its not ok because its not coming from a "reliable independent published elsewhere" source but it is.

And I also asked if Navy / Military records are an acceptable source.

Sean Seangypsy (talk) 13:41, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

If the book doesn't doesn't state that Alan is his first cousin then we can't say he is, photographs are not usually a reliable source either. Military records are primary sources but might be useful. Theroadislong (talk) 13:46, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Since you have accumulated so many documents and records about his life, I suggest that you write an article about your grandfather and submit it to a reputable journal specializing in the naval history of the World War II era. If published, that journal article could be used to expand this Wikipedia biography. Because of your conflict of interest, you should discuss the future edits with uninvolved editors. Cullen328 (talk) 17:57, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Thats great advice Cullen. Very grateful. Must make it happen, there's so much more than the current profile, not least him captaining HMS Faulknor on the Arctic Convoys which isn't even on the basic list of what he did in his naval career. 2A02:C7C:5CCF:A000:B10B:51D6:6CA9:F52 (talk) 22:53, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Welcome!

Hello, Seangypsy, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions.

I noticed that one of the first articles you edited was Alan Scott-Moncrieff, which appears to be dealing with a topic with which you may have a conflict of interest. In other words, you may find it difficult to write about that topic in a neutral and objective way, because you are, work for, or represent, the subject of that article. Your recent contributions may have already been undone for this very reason.

One rule we do have in connection with conflicts of interest is that accounts used by more than one person will unfortunately be blocked from editing. Wikipedia generally does not allow editors to have usernames which imply that the account belongs to a company or corporation. If you have a username like this, you should request a change of username or create a new account. (A name that identifies the user as an individual within a given organization may be OK.)

In addition, if you receive, or expect to receive, compensation for any contribution you make, you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation to comply with our terms of use and our policy on paid editing.

Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• Best practices for editors with close associations
• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Contributing to Wikipedia
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article (using the Article Wizard if you wish)
• Simplified Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{Help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Theroadislong (talk) 11:49, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Thankyou. I will draft the full planned update to the Wikipedia page as you say and send for review, I'm still not clear how to prove even very simple facts such as CK Scott Moncrieff being his first cousin but will keep reading the Wikipedia guidance. I also have some fantastic photos of Alan, the best ones were recorded by military photographers. I know Wikipedia pages are not awash with photos, what are the criteria for uploading the best ones ? Seangypsy (talk) 12:07, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Copyright

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mod-copyright-licensing-information/ministry-of-defence-copyright-licensing-information has contact information to ask if "military photographer" photographs are copyright protected or not. My fast scan makes me think that copyright restrictions apply, meaning a long hard road for you to get permission. David notMD (talk) 13:42, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Thankyou for the advice. I admit defeat. I have Alan Scott-Moncrieff's collected letters, photos, archives and its written up in a readable format for the rest of the family but nothing can go up on Wikipedia because most of it I don't have the first clue how to verify independently, despite the fact its all primary source material owned or written by the man himself. I understand why it has to be this way but what a loss for future readers. I now think Wikipedia needs a moderated secondary site for other information that can't be linked to published material but is nevertheless true. Seangypsy (talk) 14:41, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia has no interest in "truth", or anything " written by the man himself" articles are based on what reliable independently published sources have reported on a topic. You are free to put your content on a website or blog but it isn't suitable for an encyclopaedia article. Theroadislong (talk) 17:07, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

New section

At the top of every Talk page, a menu choice is "New section." That (obviously) starts a new section. Hope this helps. David notMD (talk) 16:58, 11 February 2023 (UTC)