User talk:Sanetti

This is a test.Sanetti (talk) 14:53, 12 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Autism edits

Hi, Sanetti; I just wanted to draw your attention to this discussion. Regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:29, 16 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And now this as well; I am concerned that your students aren't yet aware of Wikipedia editing norms, and they might be better off to confine their edits to sandbox while they learn. Specifically, have you instructed them in WP:UNDUE, WP:MEDRS (our medical sourcing standards, which generally call for independent secondary reviews), and WP:COPYVIO, WP:PLAGIARISM and WP:CLOSEPARAPHRASE? Another suggestion might be for them to propose their edits on talk, and explain their sources, before they make their edits so there will be less likelihood that all of their edits will have to be removed ... experienced editors are generally happy to explain our sourcing and copyvio policies if students will first post on talk so we know they need help, and we can guide them to proper medical sources. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:37, 16 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again, Cynthia ... I'm sorry for the delay. Here is a brief overview of my concerns; I'll try to catch up with more later. Best regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I prefer to keep conversations together, rather than spreading them across two user talk pages ... I have your talk page watchlisted, so you can respond here, and I will follow up here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:11, 17 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

evolutionary medicine

Thanks for getting your students to improve WP pages by adding material on evolutionary medicine. If some of those students need pointers on following protocol, I'm willing to help. Evolutionary approaches to human behavior can be controversial, especially if they touch on sex differences, so any material like that needs to conform to an especially high level of reliability. The Autism pages have been thin when it comes to evolutionary approaches and sex differences, so I hope your student Stephanie doesn't give up. We could use some expert opinion. Thanks again. Leadwind (talk) 16:47, 19 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Coeliac disease

Hi Sanetti. Please see Wikipedia:Training/For educators/Kinds of articles to avoid. I would advise not tackling Coeliac disease as part of a student assignment. It is already a featured article, and as such has been reviewed for being comprehensive, reliably sourced, readable and of a professional standard. It is one of several articles monitored by members of the medical wikiproject to ensure it stays accurate and up-to-date. Therefore there is a high change your students might find little that can be added without affecting the balance of the article and, as beginners, are quite likely to cause disruption to an article that is viewed 5,000 times a day and is a top Google hit for this condition. I suggest you find a different topic or at the very least, discuss any proposed changes on the talk page. Regards, Colin°^Talk 17:30, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Colin. Your concerns add a new wrinkle to this assignment, one that is becoming more complicated every day. I have asked the students to work in their sandboxes for now and to discuss their proposed changes on the associated talk pages. The students selected their own topics; as long as the topic was reasonable, in the sense that there were solid secondary sources, I okayed it. Shall we see how things go on the talk pages? Sanetti (talk) 21:39, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I realize I still owe Sanetti a long explanation of the numerous problems I am already encountering with this class's student editing, but for now I want to echo @Colin:'s concern, point out that besides "essay-like" text proposals, there are issues of due weight (we give weight to theories according to their representation in secondary reliable sources), and that there are several FAs on your course list which are already (supposedly) comprehensive and based on recent, high-quality, MEDRS-compliant sources, and that additions of long student essays that expound on one theory are likely to fall foul of our due weight NPOV policy.

I'm also here for now to point out that you have added course tags incorrectly to article talk pages ... would you mind moving them to the top section of the top pages, where they will not be archived and will be seen by subsequent editors?

Also, I'm wondering if you have engaged an ambassador to help explain the concept of undue text in student essays, as they relate to MEDRS, and particularly as they relate to the high-quality sourcing requirement for featured articles? If no, I will try to point out (using as an example) the problems with the proposed text at ~~User:Sanetti/sandbox~~ User:Sarmocid/sandbox (sorry to use the first encountered as an example, but explaining the problems there may be one way to head off potential issues before other students make the same mistakes).

I have also noticed the unfortunate (but not atypical to Wikipedia) factor that one editor who is persisting in trying to add WP:UNDUE, non-MEDRS-compliant text to multiple articles (without providing sources that are compliant with our policies for the proposed text), and exhibiting an inability to hear what other editors are explaining is encouraging your students to do same! In that sense, it will be helpful if you have an ambassador, as it is unfortunate that the students might not know how to sort out commentary from editors who know policy versus those who do not. Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:54, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have corrected a significant typo above-- wrong sandbox. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 10:18, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sanetti, are you working with the Education Program on this course? You should have previously received the advice I gave above rather than it being a surprising "new wrinkle". There is a reason for the advice in that page. The course instructions should have steered students away from articles that are already high quality and comprehensive. I don't think advising newbies to tackle the "most viewed articles on the list at WikiProject Medicine" is a good idea. If you want to ignore that advice and wait to see what happens, please then take responsibility for helping to fix issues that arise. Perhaps it will work out. Remember that Wikipedian's are not free course assistants or markers. Unlike normal student essays, the "D-grade" student's homework isn't hidden away in a folder somewhere but is instead published on the #1 Google hit for these medical conditions -- and we take seriously our responsibility to readers. -- Colin°^Talk 08:01, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I got a start at User talk:Sarmocid/sandbox, but that is all I have time for today. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:41, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Cynthia, I think I agree with the comments by Colin and Sandy above. I notice that the course focuses particularly on Darwinian medicine. I think it is very important to be clear that with regards to many medical conditions, evolutionary aspects may well be too underdeveloped scientifically to include into mainstream encyclopedia articles. Of course there are famous theories (about the evolutionary advantage of haemoglobinopathies in sickle cell disease, for instance) but unless these theories are covered in reliable secondary sources, there might well be a reason to exclude them from Wikipedia. I can be reached through my talk page for further discussion. JFW | T@lk 11:52, 25 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Offer to chat about course

Hello Sanetti. My name is Lane and I support the Wikipedia education program and participate in development of health articles on Wikipedia. Some users have expressed some concerns about your class's contributions and I thought that I would offer to schedule a phone or video chat with you, if you liked. If you wish do to this, contact me through Special:EmailUser/Bluerasberry. I am most free EST mornings but other times are possible. If we talked, here are some options for an agenda:

Short tour of Wikipedia
Review of Wikipedia Education Program infrastructure
basics of editing Wikipedia
Examples of what kinds of assignments have worked in the past
Responses to any questions you might have

I appreciate your interest. Often the education program goes along without much trouble, but for medicine, standards and expectations are often raised. Thanks. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:49, 24 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikiversity Alternative

Hello User:Sanetti! I noticed the recent discussion at Wikipedia:ENI and wanted to suggest an alternative for your future classes. You might consider having students create content at Wikiversity instead. A learning project can be created there. Content inside a learning project is generally left for the class and instructor to edit and manage, particularly if you indicate that it is for a real-world class in the article instructions. Let me know if you have any questions. You can reach me at Wikiversity:User_talk:Dave Braunschweig. -- Dave Braunschweig (talk) 18:47, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Response at Wikiversity:User_talk:Dave Braunschweig. -- Dave Braunschweig (talk) 21:08, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]