User talk:Rubert ABC

Welcome!

Hi, Rubert ABC. Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Our intro page contains a lot of helpful material for new users—please check it out! If you need help, visit Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on this page, followed by your question, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Viriditas (talk) 12:38, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you  :)

Rubert ABC, you are invited to the Teahouse

Hi Rubert ABC! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from peers and experienced editors. I hope to see you there! Benzband (I'm a Teahouse host) Visit the Teahouse This message was delivered automatically by your robot friend, HostBot (talk) 01:17, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you  :)

Scandinavian Deli (from Finnila's Finnish Baths)

A restaurant called Scandinavian Deli operated for decades on Market Street, between Noe and Sanchez Streets, almost directly across the street from Finnila's.

My friends and I used to eat there all the time in the early 1990s. Good times, great prices, and beautiful young ladies helping out with the buffet with huge smiles on their faces. If there was ever a point when I considered becoming a Lutheran, that was the time. :) Viriditas (talk) 12:27, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the sharing, Viriditas (talk). -- Rubert ABC (talk) 10:20, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Edna Jeffrey

Hello, Rubert ABC, and thank you for your contributions!

I wanted to let you know it seems an article you worked on, Edna Jeffrey, is copied from another Wikipedia page, Finnila's Finnish Baths. It's fine to do this as long as you provide the following information in the edit summary:

1. a link to the article you copied from
2. the date you copied it

You can do this now by editing the page, making any minor edit to the article, and adding the above information into the edit summary.

If you're still not sure how to fix the problem, please leave a message at the help desk. It's possible that I made a mistake, so feel free to remove the tag I placed on the article.

Thanks again for helping build the free encyclopedia! MadmanBot (talk) 05:00, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, MadmanBot (talk. That information was added on the narration line, with a new edit.

On 04.27.2013, parts of the newly-created Edna Jeffrey article were copied from the article about Finnila's Finnish Baths, a co-owner of which Edna Jeffrey was for decades. She is also the largest share holder of the new - replacement - building on San Francisco's Market Street. Other parts were borrowed from the same source, but were altered and/or cropped to fit the article, and yet other parts were created anew. -- Rubert ABC (talk) 10:20, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Please don't copy large chunks of text from one page to another. The copies get out of synch and errors can either creep in or might not get removed from all the versions. It's almost never necessary to copy lots of text: it's nearly always better to provide a summary and a link. For example, with the baths having their own article, it's not necessary for the articles about the owners to say much more than that they were the owners, with a very brief summary (a couple of sentences) of what the baths were like. Dricherby (talk) 23:44, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

I tried paying close attention, to fix parts of the copied text, so that the text would fit the other page. However, I fully agree with you on that and I share your concern. I normally do not practice that. -- Rubert ABC (talk) 00:06, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Edna Jeffrey

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A tag has been placed on Edna Jeffrey requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, you can place a request here. Eduemoni^↑talk↓ 05:02, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

_____________________

Hi Eduemoni^↑talk↓,

Edna Jeffrey article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because:

Edna Jeffrey is an American realtor, a co-owner of Finnila's Finnish Baths for decades, and also the largest share holder of the new - replacement - building on Market Street in San Francisco's Castro District in California, USA. Until 1986, Edna Jeffrey also owned a part of the property where Cafe Flore has been operating in San Francisco since 1973.

Both Cafe Flore and Finnila's Finnish Baths have been popular San Francisco businesses for long time - "landmarks", if you will -, Finnila's operating in San Francisco's Castro District alone for over seven decades. For instance, the two businesses have been granted the "The Best" award by (the popular, historically bi-weekly and free San Francisco Bay Area entertainment magazine) San Francisco Bay Guardian in total at least eight times.

Edna Jeffrey is also the author of the novel Till I'm with You Again, a movie screenplay for which has been written by many times Emmy-nominated Thom Racina.

In my view, this article meets the criteria for what is generally accepted as notable in Wikipedia. -- Rubert ABC (talk) 10:20, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Edna Jeffrey for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Edna Jeffrey is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Edna Jeffrey until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. —teb728 t c 21:45, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Alfred Finnila for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Alfred Finnila is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alfred Finnila until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. —teb728 t c 22:02, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

• I crossed out your second !vote in the discussion – you're only allowed one – but I left your comment supporting it. Even though deletion discussions aren't decided by majority vote, saying "keep" (or "delete") more than once can make it look like there's more agreement than there really is, which might make the debate be closed sooner than it should. I'm sure you didn't mean any harm. Dricherby (talk) 19:41, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Deletion issues

Hi. :) I see that the usual suspects have nominated your good work for deletion. If you like, I can try to help you, but first, I would recommend moving your work to your user space. Can I help you do that? This will allow you to keep backup copies that won't necessarily be deleted right away that you can work on and improve. Viriditas (talk) 00:24, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Note, I'm going to choose "redirect" for now until the notability issues are sorted out. You may want to do some major research at your local library, particularly at the SFPL as they have a historical archive. The book, The Gate: The True Story of the Design and Construction of the Golden Gate Bridge mentions Finnila, so you may want to look at it. Viriditas (talk) 02:15, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm concerned that the article inflates Finnila's importance. The article says that he was a very senior engineer on the Golden Gate Bridge project, before he'd even finished college. It seems extremely unlikely that somebody of that level of importance on such a major project would not even have his name mentioned on the internet, except for mirrors of this Wikipedia page. He's only mentioned seven times in The Gate and one of those is an anecdote about losing his pocketwatch — again, this doesn't seem compatible with him being as important as the article suggests. I also specifically dispute the phrase "the assistant civil engineer of California". I can find no evidence that the state of California has or has ever had such a position. For example, the American Society of Civil Engineers Yearbook 1973 [1] describes him merely as "Eng. draftsman" (engineering draftsman) where as many people (83 hits) are described as "Asst. Engr." (assistant engineer). At that point, he didn't have a college degree so wouldn't have been titled "engineer". More generally, if you search for the phrase "assistant civil engineer", you get a lot of advertisements for relatively junior civil engineering jobs. He may have been "an assistant civil engineer" (though he wasn't in 1937) and he was indisputably "of California" but that does not make him "the assistant civil engineer of California". And please be careful to add sources. For example, Viriditas's addition of the middle name must have come from somewhere; that should have been added as a source. (I'll add the ASCE Yearbook, which gives his full name.) Dricherby (talk) 08:56, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

If someone else would have been chosen to oversee these projects, an article about him/her would deserve to be in Wikipedia. For us to speculate why exactly Finnila was given these responsibilities, e.g. the designing of Bridge Round House is rather pointless. What counts and what needs to be revealed in Wikipedia is that it was he who was pointed for these tasks, and that it was he who built the Finnila's bathhouse on San Francisco's Market Street, and that he ran Finnila's for seven decades, etc. Like this article, the similar type of article about Adolph Sutro deserves to be in Wikipedia as well, although - unlike Alfred Finnila - Sutro did not personally build his bathhouse, nor did he oversee the main works of Golden Gate Bridge, etc. -- Rubert ABC (talk) 17:35, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Backup copies for improvement

• User:Rubert ABC/Edna Jeffrey
• User:Rubert ABC/Alfred Finnila

Thank you. -- Rubert ABC (talk) 17:35, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

San Francisco Bay Guardian

Hello,

Please provide the full details of this reference. Provide the article title, the reporter's name, the publication date and the page number. Please also quote a couple of sentences that describe Edna Jeffrey, and summarize the main things that the article says about her. Thank you very much. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 19:01, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• Hello Cullen. I don't believe I have stated that San Francisco Bay Guardian actually has discussed Edna Jeffrey by name. However, The Bay Guardian has honored Finnila's Finnish Baths with the title "The Best" twice (at least twice). Below, please find the wording I have used on this talk page:

"Edna Jeffrey is an American realtor, a co-owner of Finnila's Finnish Baths for decades, and also the largest share holder of the new - replacement - building on Market Street in San Francisco's Castro District in California, USA. Until 1986, Edna Jeffrey also owned a part of the property where Cafe Flore has been operating in San Francisco since 1973.

Both Cafe Flore and Finnila's Finnish Baths have been popular San Francisco businesses for long time - "landmarks", if you will -, Finnila's operating in San Francisco's Castro District alone for over seven decades. For instance, the two businesses have been granted the "The Best" award by (the popular, historically bi-weekly and free San Francisco Bay Area entertainment magazine) San Francisco Bay Guardian in total at least eight times.

Edna Jeffrey is also the author of the novel Till I'm with You Again, a movie screenplay for which has been written by many times Emmy-nominated Thom Racina. " -- Rubert ABC (talk) 19:07, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

You have been unable to provide a single reliable, independent source that gives significant coverage of Edna Jeffrey. Therefore, she simply isn't notable as Wikipedia defines notability and I feel stronger than ever that this biography should be deleted. I am sure that she is a fine person, but she simply doesn't meet our standards. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 19:31, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

• Hello Cullen. On May 7, 2013, I responded to that claim of yours on another talk page. Here's a quote from that response:

"Response to Cullen 328: You suggest that the website used as a reference might be "controlled" by the screenwriter. With no proof or indication of such control, this is not a valid reason for deletion of the article.

Proof of contrary: Out of billions of Google picture search results for the term "film entertainment", a majority (4/7) of the first row of results connect to websites of the publisher used as a reference in the Edna Jeffrey article (checking the search term without quote signs, 30% of the first three rows of pictures connect to that publisher). Furthermore, a search engine check shows that although that entertainment network reports about Edna Jeffrey's novel and the screenplay by Thom Racina and the movie under works, no indication of the network being in any way "controlled" by Mr. Racina can be detected. Racina appears to be no affiliate or partner of the network.

Using an issue of San Francisco Bay Guardian as a reference for "The Best" awards granted by the paper is appropriate, and the year and the number of the issue discussing "The Best" awards in question have been provided. Also, a picture of the 1984 "The Best" award granted to Finnila's by Bay Guardian was added in references. The Amazon.com link was not intended for showing of notability, but simply for additional verification of the novel having been authored by Edna Jeffrey. The broken link to the screenwriter biography was fixed. As material was deleted from the article, the church link had become poorly placed. That was fixed. The source info for Edna Jeffrey's book (incl. ISBN No.) was included as a reference." -- Rubert ABC (talk) 22:18, 16 May 2013 (UTC)