User talk:Pintade

MERGE MINI-JAZZ AND COMPA

why is there one article talking about mini-jazz and another for compa if they are all the same. To me, the mini-jazz is another meringue drawing of a rock band format, a totally different style than compa music. it don't really sound like compa; further more these bands created new innovations including the cadence-lypso horn and synthesizer styles. If they are the same they need to be merged because this is confusing to readers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 16:32, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear IP#...since that's your preference. For your information, MINI_JAZZ is a moment, a step in the meringue-compass or cadence evolution. The period 1967 -74 during which the young neighborhood bands dropped the sax and heavy horn of the big compass and cadence bands to go lighter with a rock and rock (ye ye format). EXACTLY, SO IT IS THE SMAME AND NEEDS TO BE MERGED TOGETHER. Some had keyboard (ambassadeurs, bossa combo, loups noirs) others had one alto sax (vickings, shleu shleu, shoupa shupa, fantaisistes...) a few had both a horn section and keyboard (bossa combo, ambassadeurs, frères Dejean...), accordion (tabou combo, les corvingtons...)...but most of them had guitars that were very creative. Also, they were playing the same compas. remember the French Antilleans had their tabou # 2, vickings and other mini-jazz also? I don't know why you keep talking about full horn , section and synthesizer that much? IT IS WELL UNDERSTOOD THAT OLD COMPA BANDS HAD HORNS ESPECIALLY A SAXOPHONE. I HAVE LISTENED TO ALOT OF THE ABOVE MENTIONED BANDS WITH THEIR MORIBUND HORNS BUT WHEN YOU LISTEN TO THE SOUND OF EXILE ONE, GRAMMACKS OR KASSAV YOU CAN FEEL THE ENERGY OF A DIFFERENT SENSATION. THIS WAS A FULL BLAST AND ENERGETIC SOUND THAT HAD THE MINI-JAZZ RUNING BACK TO THEIR HORNS IN ORDER TO BE LIKE EXILE ONE. A full horn section wasn't a new thing in the 70s. THEY HAD HORNS JUST LIKE CALYPSO HAD HORNS, BUT CAN YOU COMPARE THAT WITH A SALSA HORN SECTION....THESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT SOUNDS. Keyboard was also used. Exile was the first to use the newly arrived synthesizer like kassav the first to use the MIDI technology. These are technologies for new sounds same as chorus, distorsion, reverber, tremolo, etc.Pintade (talk) 04:23, 13 December 2014 (UTC)...ALSO, IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT COMPAS HAD KEYBOARDS, BUT WHEN YOU LISTEN TO A SONE LIKE "CUISSE-LA" AND THE KEYBOARD SOUNDS OF EXILE ONE OR GRAMMACKS, WHICH LATER INFLUENCED KASSAV AND ZOUK, THESE KEYBOARDS WERE PLAYED DIFFERENTLY. THE KEYOARD STYLE USED BY HAITIAN IS THE ONE COMING FROM THE ANTILLES. BANDS LIKE EXILE ONE, GRAMMACKS, LES AIGLONS, ETC. ASK FOR KASSAV AND ZOUK, THAT SOUND DERIVED FROM EXILE ONE AND OTHER ANTILLEAN BANDS AND NOT HAITIAN BANDS SO THAT NEED TO BE CREDITED TOO.

AS FAR AS MIDI TECHNOLOGY GO, THAT CREATES BETTER QUALITY SOUNDS AND THAT COULD BE CRITICAL IN THE POPULARIY OF A GENRE. FOR EXAMPLE, FUNK V.S HIP HOP, TECHNLOGY HAVE BECOME A MAJOR PART OR ITS SUCESS COMPARE TO FUNK FROM WHICH IT DERIVED.

It need to be empasizie because Exile One influenced compass bands to return to a full-horn section. It was not just a full horn section, but it had a modern sound to it as Exile One incoperated that of funk and soul music. Tambou Combo, DP Express, Scopio, Experience 7, Kassav, Grammacks, and many more were drawing on xile One style...it was not a Haitian influenced style and that need credit too. As with Les Aiglons "cuisse-la", the horn and synthesizer style used in that song is the same pattern Haitian bands are using and it have become popular with compass. Haitian bands had keyboards its true, but the pattern by which is was played is different or at list should I say that the horn styles and synthesizers played in the Antilles were not derived from compass and it was played different. Raggeae and salsa use horns and keyboards, but they play it differently. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 16:21, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear IP # 50.192.218.161 May I ask you what you're talking about? have you read your text? what are you trying to prove? I have said nothing that scholars haven't stated before. There is no passion in music. you should talk to the scholars who have extensively written about the influence of Haitian music on Caribbean music. You assume that exile one was the first full band with a horn section and keyboard? Haitian bands including the Sicot brothers and others who came with a full band (heavy horn section, Hawayenne, guitar, keybord...) to spread the seeds of the meringue in the Caribbean were waiting for exile one to use a full horn? ok. Finally why are you spending so much time on small insignificant details brother? I gave you plenty of credits don't you see that? it is not about Haitian and the others. How do you know whether I am Haitian? RegarsPintade (talk) 16:40, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

THAT HAVE NOTHIN TO DO WITH HAITIAN OR ANTILLEAN....WE ALL ARE CARIBBEAN AND FRENCH CREOLE...MY POINT IS THAT COMPAS IN HAITI AND IN THE ANTILLES AHVE DIFFERENT INFLUENCES. INSTEAD OF CALLING IT ALL COMPA AND CREATING CONFUSION FOR READERS LETS TRY TO BETWEEN THE GENRES BECAUSE EVERY ONE WANTS CREDIT FOR THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS. THIS COMPAS ARTICLE SPEAKS AS IF ANTILLEAN TOOK COMPAS AND CALLED IT ZOUK OR CADENCE-LYPSO...THAT COMPAS WAS FULLY EQUIPED WITH HORN SECTIONS AND SYNTHESIZERS AND IT WAS TAKEN AND PROMOTED AS THEIR MUSIC. WHEN IN REALITY, ANTILLEANS WERE A KEY FACTOR IN THE PROMOTION OF COMPA MUSIC. THAT IS WHY THE WORLD KNOW ZOUK AND NOT COMPA BECAUSE ZOUK AND ANTILLEANS WAS THE FORFRONT AND THE ONES TO SPREAD THE MUSIC TO AFRICA AND THE WORLD PAVING THE WAY FOR HAITIAN BANDS. BANDS LIKE EXILE ONE, GRAMMACKS, AND KASSAV. THEIR HORN SECTION, SYNTHESIZERS OR MIDI IS NOT DERIVED FROM COMPA. IT NEED TO BE CREDITED THAT WHEN THE MINI-JAZZ GOT RID OF THEIR HORN SECTIONS FOLLOWING A ROCK BAND FORMAT, THE ANTILLEAN SOUNDS HAD HAITIAN BANDS RUNNING BACK TO THEIR HORNS WITH A SYNTHSIZER PATTERN INFLUENCED BY ANTILLEAN BANDS. THE SONG "CUISSE-LA" BY LES AIGLONS IS A GOOD EXAMPLE AND THAT IS NOT A HAITIAN INFLUENCED STYLE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 17:01, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

==I understood that the main motive behind all these talks is about credits? in that case, be assured of my fairness; you got your credits. Of course geography and culture influence music style. African rhumba has a different flavor than Cuban rhumba, however, they are still a one music style. the incorporation of African guitar and more conga has not changed the style. the difference is geographical and cultural. Latin rock n roll is not similar to American rock n roll, however, they are rock for sharing the basic features of the style. Some reminders: Coupe cloue toured Africa and was featured by Tabulae and others (Mian, mian...) Coupe is a guitar based meringue band. Also Haitian compas bands had influenced African music way before the word zouk and Exile one were born. I am glad you said: (...ANTILLEANS WERE A KEY FACTOR IN THE PROMOTION OF COMPA MUSIC. THAT IS WHY THE WORLD KNOW ZOUK AND NOT COMPA BECAUSE ZOUK AND ANTILLEANS WAS THE FORFRONT) So because you went there you felt obligated to call compas zouk? I wish you realize that is the main problem? the source of all these confusions? compas is heard, is featured and people are calling it zouk? Finally there is no such thing as reggae horn or calypso horn...horn are applied based on inspiration and harmonic skills brother. RegardsPintade (talk) 17:26, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

DOMINICA AND THE FRENCH ANTILLES INFLUENCE ON CREOLE MUSIC

Dominica is a former French and British colony in the Eastern Caribbean, situated between the two French departments of Guadeloupe and Martinique; the dividing line from the leeward and windward islands of the Lesser Antilles chain. The first inhabitants of the island was the carib Indians (Caribbean), however the island was discovered by Christopher Columbus on his second voyage to the Western world with Dominica being the first land discovered on that voyage.

The French were the first to settle on Dominica and brought slaves from West Africa, Martinique and Guadeloupe to work on the sugar plantations. Slaves spoke different languages and created their own language based on French lexicon (Antillean creole). Later, the British would take over the island making Dominica a British colony. As a result, Dominica speak English as an official language while Antillean creole is spoken as a secondary language and is well maintained due to it's location between Guadeloupe and Martinique.

In those times, the French settled on Martinique and Guadeloupe after fleeing away from St. Kitts by the British. Fort Royal on Martinique was a major port for French battle ships in the region...from there the French were able to tour the region. From Martinique, the French sailed south looking for new lands with St. Lucia and Grenada becoming French colonies and a dependency of Martinique. This could still be seen in the French style building, food, places name (Petit Martinique, Martinique channel, etc.) The French brought French creole slaves to work on their plantations. As a result, St. Lucia and Grenada inherited many French creole speakers. In Trinidad, the Spanish had colonized that island with el dorado being the main focus. Trinidad was under populated and undeveloped so the king of Spain passed a cedula of population granting land and years free of tax for European settlers in the region to settle in Trinidad. A French man living in Grenada signed the cedula of population which was sent to Martinique, St. Lucia, Dominica and Guadeloupe welcoming French families and their slaves from the French Antilles to settle in Trinidad. As a result, the population of Trinidad increased greatly with the Spanish, French and French creole being the main languages spoken on the island. The new immigrants started the development of Trinidad island and have played an important role in the creation of Trinidad's culture. The French brought carnival to Trinidad and the slaves who could not participate formed an alternative celebration called canboulay (Fr. Cannes brules) - the precursor for Trinidad's carnival. The slaves performed songs in tents called Kaiso - later calypso tents. many kaiso or calypso were performed in the French creole language and led by a griot or chantwell. as Trinidad became a British colony, the chantwell became known as the calypsonian. the british government tried to ban the celebration of carnival due to it's aggressive overtone; this led to canboulay riots between the afro-creoles and the police, which banned the use of African percussive instruments - this later appeared as the tamboo bamboo (bamboo sticks) and later steel plan music.

From Trinidad, The carnival, calypso and steel pan have spreaded to the entire English speaking Caribbean islands. In Jamaica, Calypso influenced a music style called Mento, which have played an important role in the creation of Ska and eventually reggae music.

In Dominica, the calypso and steel pan started integrating into the Chante mas and lapokabrit carnival traditions in the early 50's. In modern times, calypso and steel pan have become a part of Dominica carnival (Mas Dominique) celebration. In the 1960's Calypso contined to become more popular in Dominica and the English speaking Caribbean island producing a number of musicians. Later, the reggae of Jamaica started becoming popular on the island. Calypso popularity started to become dominated by reggae with Dominicans playing both genres.

In Guadeloupe and Marinque, the Haitian meringue (Compas and cadence) was becoming increasingly popular producing a number of musicians such as Les Viking de Guadeloupe. In the late 60's, Gordon Henderson of Dominca migrated to Guadeloupe and Martinique to start a career in creole music, where he met up with Pierre-Eduord Decimus, the leader of Les Viking de Guadeloupe. Gordon recorded a few songs with Les Vikings and later decided to create his own band recruiting some Dominican musicians. The band was called Exile One. Coming from Dominica, the band played calypso, reggae and later cadence as the band moved to Guadeloupe. In 1973, Exile One started to fusion calypso and cadence in a style known as cadence-lypso music. From Guadeloupe, Exile One toured Dominica and Martinique playing Cadence-lypso Cadence, calypso and reggae. In Dominica, the name "Cadence-lypso" became popular with the public with Dominican bands doing the fusion of music. This gave rise to Grammacks, Bill-o-men, Midnight Groovers, Belles Combo, and many more. Exile One became popular in the French Antilles, especially when they introduced a full-horn section, synthesizers, soul-style vocals, rock guitars, funk baseline and horn styles to their cadence styles. Exile One and the name "cadence-lypso" became the most innovative and exportable band in the French Caribbean followed by Grammacks, Mid night Groovers, bill-o-men, and many Dominican bands touring the French Antilles for the fame. French Antillean had forgotten about the Haitian cadence style and were doing promotions for Dominican bands...Exile One became the first Caribbean band to sign to a major record label "Barclay Records" and the first to export cadence music to the four corners of the globe. Cadence-lypso became the most popular music in the French Caribbean in the 1970's with young Haitian (mini-jazz) and French Antillean cadence or compass bands emulating that style by adding a full-horn section, synthesizers and midi-technology. In Haiti, D.p Express and Scorpio emerged wile in the French Antilles Les Aiglons and Experience 7 became popular with the style. This paved the way for modern creole music.

In the early, drawing under the influence on Grammack, Exile One, Experience 7 and Les Aiglons..the Viking changed to Kassav featuring a full-horn section, synthesizers and the midi-technology. Kassav was the first to fully introduce the MIDI technology to their music; this produced better quality sounds and was the main success for the band as they traveled the world to playing zouk music. Yet, they themselves acknowledged that zouk was merely a natural progression for cadence-lypso - the Dominican cadence. The zouk style of rhythmic music comes from Haitian compass, as well as cadence-lypso - Dominica cadence as popularized by Gramacks and Exile One.

Feedback 'My dear fellow! you haven't demonstrated a clear understanding of music, which makes it difficult to have an honest conversation with you. For you everything is easy. You add tibwa or gwo bwa in compas and yep you got a new style even though you're still dancing the same way; what's important if for you to exist even by name. I have a question: since it is so easy to create a new style don't you ever try adding ti bwa and gwo bwa in rock n roll and salsa? maybe you'll finally get a proper music? Pintade (talk) 07:11, 2 December 2014 (UTC) IT HAVE NEVER BEEN DENIED THAT ZOUK DERIVED FROM COMPAS OR CADENCE-LYPSO, BUT THERE WAS OTHER THINGS PUT INTO IT THAT HELPED WITH ITS PROMOTION. IT WAS NOT JUST SOME MASTERPIECE THAT WAS SO POWERFUL THAT IT BECAME POWERFUL, BUT THE INPUTS OF SOUL, FUNK AND ROCK ELEMENTS, FULL-FRON SECTIONS, SYNTHESIZERS, AND THE MIDI "SOUND AND NEW TECHNOLOGIES" HAVE PLAYED AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN ITS POPULARITY TODAY....IT WAS NOT JUST THE CONGA-COWBELL-TABOU BECAUSE MOST ZOUK DON'T USE A CONGA AND COWBELL. ZOUK IS BASED ON THE TAMBORA DRUM OF MERINGUE (COMPAS OR CADENCE), TIBWA AND CHACHA/HI-HAT CYMBALS. AS FAR AS DANCE, YOU CAN DANCE COMPAS TO SALSA OR BACHATA, THE DANCE IS NOT THAT HARD AND THOUGH IN REALITY IT DERIVED FROM COMPA I WOULD NOT ASSOCIATE THAT WITH MUSIC.

Also, if you're so confident of yourself why you deliberately deleted the sections in cadence rampa that show the schooling of the Caribbean musicians into the cadence style? You're talking about cadence-lypso? who popularized the cadence in 1962? Webert Sicot? so why you deleted it in the cadence introduction? Grammacks wasn't a cadence band? what about all the compas medley it produced? What about Raymond Sicot and his orchestra volcan?Pintade (talk) 07:11, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

In the absence of clear criteria anybody is free to talk about everything this is what you 're doing exactly; but I don't waste my time with neophytes. In order for you to understand it would require a whole music class where you could absorb the simple notions of music style, genre, influence, derivative, even the fusion you like so much, etc.Pintade (talk) 07:11, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

I thought I took the time already with one of you if not you..since it's an IPI number. only an ignorant can take the liberty advance so many contradictions and baseless points.Pintade (talk) 07:11, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

You said zouk is popular? honestly you have done a good marketing job in promotion. However, it's only about the name zouk. The original fast carnival zouk beton faded away since the 80s. are you with me my fellow? Now as usual you still dancing compas/cadence and since you made so much noise you still call it zouk. so how many definitions for zouk? many. zouk is popular by name because out of ethics you promote compas as zouk creating confusion. What about cassav, which music repertoire is 90% compas...assuming everywhere it's a zouk band? Angola, Cape Verde, Africa and other areas? but don't you think that all Haitian have to do is to go in these areas and reclaim the style?...lol...Pintade (talk) 07:11, 2 December 2014 (UTC) But egotistic minds think they are in a world of their own...fortunately there scholars to research and publish books serving as good references. This is why I am not too much worried about your vandalism on both compas and cadence articles. More info backed by references from scholars will be displayed to counter your exaggerations taken out of internet links that anybody can produce. By the way you have made a lot of forgeries on the account of Jocelyne Guilbault. when I have some times I will be more than happy to help with correction.Pintade (talk) 07:11, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

CADENCE-LYPSO AND CADENCE REMINDS ME OF REGGAE AND REGGAETON. REGGAETON STARTED WITH REGGAE, BUT INCOPERATED OTHER SOUNDS TO CREATE SOMETHING NEW, EVEN IF THE BEAT AND NAME STILL REFLECTS ITS PREDECESSOR IT HAVE EVOLVED TO ITS OWN GENRE OF MUSIC.

'Webert Sicot popularized cadence in 1962; and the Sicot brothers and several bands toured in the Caribbean to spread the de cadence seeds. So Guadeloupe and Martinique were replete with cadence bands. Grammacks, Vickings de la Guadeloupe and sooo many playing cadence or compas. check youtume my fellow; everything is there for your enlightment; you cannot delete them...lol...You will also find all the cadence bands of the era; even grammacks and exile one with the tittle cadence on their albumsPintade (talk) 07:11, 2 December 2014 (UTC)'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 02:51, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

REMEMBER, U CANNOT CHANGE HISTORY....MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW COMPAS, MOST PEOPLE KNOW ZOUK MUSIC. EVEN IF THE ZOUK NAME DIE FOR COMPAS...IT WILL STILL BE IN THE HISTORY. THIS WILL NEVER CHANGE. IT IS STILL IN THE HISTORY THAT A MUSIC CALLED ZOUK-LOVE CREATED CABO LOVE OR COLA-ZOUK OR CABO-LOVE. IT IS STILL IN THE HISTORY THAT THERE WAS A BRAZILLIAN ZOUK OR ZOUK-LAMBADA. SOULZOUK, ETC......A MUSIC THAT ONCE STARTED IN THE ANTILLES. U CAN CHANGE THE COURSE OF HISTORY, BUT NOT HISTORY ITSELF. FOR EXAMPLE, ENEN IF CADENCE-LYPSO IS NOT AS POPULAR AS BEFORE IT IS STILL IN THE HISTORY OF CADENCE AND WILL ALWAYS BE.

So cadence-lypso was soo hot than it lost ground?.....SO TELL ME; IF COMPAS "CADENCE-LYPSO" WAS SO HOT WHY IT LOST GROUND IN DOMINICA???? THE MUSIC NEVER LOST GROUND IT IS STILL PLAYED THROUGH ZOUK MUSIC. WASN'T IT HOT???? SO WHY DID HAITIAN BANDS IN THE 70'S EMULATED IT TO UPDATE THEIR STYLE: TAMBOU COMBO, DP EXPRESS, SCOPIO, YOUR PRESIDENT SWEET MICKEY SAID IT ON AN INTERVIEW, AS WELL AS KASSAV!!!! AS WITH COMPA, THE FRENCH ANTILLES POPULARIED IT AS ZOUK CREATING LESS ROOM FOR THE NAME "CADENCE-LYPSO" SO DOMINICAN BANDS FORGOT ABOUT IT AND STRAT PLAYING ZOUK BECAUSE IT SOUNDED ALL THE SAME. FURTHERMORE, DOMINICANS WERE NO LONGER ABLE TO FINANCE THEIR MUSIC SO BANDS PLAYED ZOUK INSTEAD ; IT WAS NORE OF A FINANCE ISSUE. DOMINICA ZOUK IS MORE OF A CADENCE-LYPSO INFLUENCED STYLE.paving the way for zouk, soca and else? IN REALITY, IT DID INFLUENCE THE CREATION OF SOCA. AS FOR ZOUK, CADENCE-LYPSO SOUNDS IDENTICAL AND SPEAK TO KASSAV BOUT THAT ONE!!!! I got it; since it was the same cadence introduced by the Sicot brothers and cadence was alike compas a modern meringue...compas became more popular in fact It has never stopped being the main music of Haiti, Guadeloupe, Martinique and Dominica. YES, WIBERT INTRODUCED THE TAMBOU-CONGA-COWBELL TO THE ANTILLES...THE CONGA IS NOT REALLY PLAYED IN CADENCE-LYPSO AND THE COWBELL AND CONGA IS NOT ALWAYS PLAYED IN ZOUK. ZOUK IS MORE ABOUT THE TAMBOU AND TIBWA. So there is only one confusion: YOU PROMOTING COMPAS AS ZOUK. zouk = a style played and danced same as compas...lol...You guy talk a lot! you take pride in any meaningless thing...the first to do this...the first to introduce synthesizer (just a new technology like)...you don't play with words...you fusion...you merge...you add tibwa...you become the most...oh lala! LET ME TELL YOU MY FELLOW: I DON'T CARE OF WHAT YOU DID OR GET; ONLY ONE THING DON'T PROMOTE COMPAS MUSIC AS ZOUK AND THINK YOU CAN ARROGANTLY TAKE CREDIT. DON'T EXPECT ANY REACTIONS FROM YOUR EXAGERATIONS. IF YOU WANT TO WORK TOGETHER WE WILL COLLABORATE WITH RESPECT BUT TRYING TO BE ARROGANT WITH PROPAGANDA AND FORCING YOUR WAY IS NOT GOING TO WORK. ACKNOWLEGE HAITIAN COMPAS DONT GO HERE AND THERE IGNORING IT AND THINK YOU'LL GET CREDIT. YOUR LACK OF ETHICS AND NARCISSISM LED YOU TO CREATE THAT CONFUSION IN CAPE VERDE...TOO BAD I HAD TO TELL THE TRUTH SHARED BY SOME IMPORTANT SCHOOLARS AND THE LIST IS LONG. IF I WERE YOU I WILL TRY TO BE QUIET. YOU ARE IMPORTANT PLAYERS OF THE COMPAS STYLE BEHAVE AS such BUT DON'T THINK YOU WILL GET CREDIT FOR ZOUK, WHICH ONLY EXISTE ON PROPAGANDA. Pintade (talk) 07:11, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

HAITIAN BANDS COULD NOT COMPETE WITH THE ANTILLEANS ANYMORE SO THE ONLY THING TO DO NOW IS CLAIM THE STYLE TO COMPA AND FOLLOW THE GAME. THE SLOW ROMANTIC FLOAVOR OF FRENCH ANTILLEAN ZOUK OR ZOUK LOVE IS THE GAME CHANGER, THANKS TO OPHELIA MARIE, THE FIRST FEMALE KADANS SINGER. SHE IS PERHAPS THE FIRST TO SHOW EXAPLES OF THIS STYLE WITH HER 1979 STYLE "AY DOMINIQUE" AND LATER "CHANTE D'AMOUR" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 16:40, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

ACTUALLY, THE MOST POPULAR MUSIC IN THE FRENCH ANTILLES IS HIPHOP AND BOUYON....ANTILLES STILL PLAY ZOUK, BUT BOUYON IS THE NEW POPULAR MUSIC; ANOTHER INFLUENCE FROM DOMINICA CALL BOUYON GWADA. JUST LIKE CADENCE-LYPSO, IT STARTED IN DOMINICA AND BECAME POPULAR IN GUADELOUPE MAKING IT HARD FOR DOMINIVAN BANDS TO SUCEED SO NOT DOMINICAN BANDS HAVE TO FOLLOW THEIR STYLE IN ORDER TO STAY IN THE GAME.

HONESTLY, THE COMPAS PLAYED BY NEMOUR AND THE ONE PLAYED BY THE NEW GENERATION SOUNDS VERY DIFFERENT....COMPAS HAVE EVOLVED BOTH IN HAITI AND THE FRENCH ANTILLES. CURRENTLY, THE COMPAS IN HAITI HAVE PICKED UP ALOT OF INFLUENCES FROM THE ANTILLES COMPAS, CADENCE-LYPSO AND ZOUK. U WILL CALL IT COMPAS, BUT EVENTUALLY THE ORIGINAL HAITIAN COMPAS SOUND WILL DIE. THE NEW GENERATION IS NO LOGER PLAYING LIKE NEMOUR, BUT THEY ON THAT KASSAV INFLUENCE. NEW GENERATION DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IS THE ORIGINAL COMPAS SOUNDS....THEY ARE PLAYING A SOUND MOSTLY ASSOCIATED WITH THE ANTILLES. CALL IT COMPAS, BUT IN TIME TO COME WE KNOW WHO ORIGINATED THAT STYLE AND SET THE STANDARDS SO GO ON CALL IT COMPAS.....CREATE MORE CONFUSION AND PROMOTE THE ANTILLEAN ZOUK SOUND.

the confusion comes from the fact that you're promoting compas as zouk. It's about cassav, which music repertoire is 90% compas assuming everywhere that its music is zouk. After more than 50 years you can hardly acknowledge the impact of compas while where ever you go with the compas you want people to believe you're playing zouk.Pintade (talk) 07:11, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Music styles evolve overtime with the use of new technologies, new influences, new population. what doesn't change is their basic characteristic features...rock will be rock, salsa will be salsa, compas will be compas even though you add 1000 new instruments and sounds; you know why? it is a real style with its distinguishable features. you're talking about zouk but the compas distinguishing features are all used therefore it is compas. Don't you feel ashamed? in Guadeloupe and Martinique the people want compas but some of you with too much pride are trying to show the contrary. where have you gotten your way of dancing? ok my fellow.Pintade (talk) 06:58, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

HIP HOP DERIVED FROM FUNK, BUT CAN YOU REALLY COMPARE THOSE TWO. THE RAP VOCALS, MELODIES, BASSLINE, MIDI AND MORE GAVE HIP HOP A SOUND DIFFERENT THAN FUNK. THIS REMINDS ME OF COMPAS AND ZOUK. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 02:06, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Feed back: Guys you make me laugh...in fact I am still laughing thank you. How could you be so funny? I know are important it is for you to claim having a proper music but you're wrong. if you had a proper music I would be the first to support you and even help improve your page as I have done quiet often. What I don't understand is your obstinate and blind propensity to put the zouk everywhere even though you honestly know that it died a long time ago. You made so much noises that your compel to keep the dream alive. keep the dream alive then; but be careful it may be a unrealistic expectation.

Honestly you talk a lot about kassav doing this and that in the Paris studio leading to the creation of zouk. Honestly how many real zouk tunes do you have? if zouk is a fast carnival beat that lost ground in the 80s? are you with me? and how many compas tunes kassav featured? why you talk about zouk even when your music is played and danced like compas exactly? if the zouk is so good according to heavy noise you made why it lost ground in the same 80s? you cannot even define the zouk beton? the truth is that it had never existed. Am I right honestly? the music repertoire of the group cassav is 90% compas but why the band never mentioned they playing compas music. why in Africa and other places they assume playing zouk? what is the zouk really? The sad truth is that zouk only exists by name. are you with me? no bluff here be honest.

You know there is something that nobody will ever tolerate: your arrogance and narcissism. You know that before Haitian musicians from the groups Skah sha and Magnum band popularized the name zouke you had no such thing eventhough you're talking about marzouk...why you haven't used it during all this time? You know analytic skills are necessary and people are not stupide. SO....ZOUK NAME AND MUSIC CAME FROM HAITI???????? IS THAT YOUR NEXT GOAL?

Do you remember when the cadence or compas bands from Haiti first initiated the Caribbean to their music? where the band had to play each tune twice at the bananerai club? do you remember how it was required to integrate you guys in Haitian bands so you could learn the style? in the 50s-60sz? you were schooled in compas or cadence music the same modern meringue. Now you learned to dance the style and you want to delete the dance in compas because you assumed compas Is not meringue? COMPARE COMPAS OF THE 60'S AND 50'S WITH THE COMPAS PLAYED BY KASSAV AND TELL ME IF THERE IS NOT A BIG DIFFERENCE. THE CONGA AND COWBELL IS NOT EVEN PRESENT. ALL YOU HEAR IS THE TAMBORE DRUM, CHACHA AND TIBWA. Enough for today! what is amusing about you is that what ever demonstration they give you it won't matter because your fixation is with the zouk. zouk is everywhere even though you're playing and dancing compas. By the way zouk was not there in the 70s ok? ZOUK WAS NOT THERE IN THE 70'S, BUT CADENCE-LYPSO WAS THERE....THAT IS WHERE THE TRANSFORMATION FROM TRADITIONAL TO CONTEMPORARY BEGAN. I LISTENED TO WIBERT SICOT AND NEMOUR SONGS AND I WILL TELL U THAT KASSAV SURELY TRANSFORMED THAT TO SOMETHING ESLE. Cassav first album "love and kdans was a compas LP. I want your honest feedback on these paragraphes from now to see whether it worth continuing.Pintade (talk) 07:56, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

WHY U SO DESPERATE FOR ZOUK TO BE CALLED COMPAS MUSIC??????????????????????...THE MUSIC HAVE COMPAS, BUT THERE ARE OTHER INGREDIENCES TO IT. EVEN R&B MUSIC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 04:41, 30 November 2014 (UTC) IS IT BECAUSE OF KIZOMBA AND COLA-ZOUK, WELL GUEST WHAT?...THESE ARE FUSIONS TOO. THE ZOUK-LAMBADA OF BRAZIL IS LAMBADA DANCED TO ZOUK. KIZOMBA IS SEMBA DANCED TO ZOUK. THESE DANCES ARE NOT DERIVED FROM ZOUK OR COMPAS...IF THAT'S WHY U SO EXCITED....

IT WAS NEVER CALLED DOMINICA KADANS UNTIL RECENTLY, THAT'S WHERE THE CONFUSION STARTED. CADENCE-LYPSO STARTED AS A MIX OF KADANS AND CALYPSO, BUT THE STYLE DEVELOPED MORE AS KADANS. AS DOMINICAN BANDS STARTED INTRODUCING THE SYNTHESIZERS, A FULL-HRON SECTION INFLUENCED BY CALYPSO/FUNK, ROCK GUITARS, SOUL-STYLE VOCALS AND FUNKY BASSLINES....THIS IS WHEN THE COMPAS STARTED ITS MODERNIZATION TO ZOUK MUSIC. IT'S TRUE THAT THE MUSIC MAITAINED THE CADENCE OR COMPAS BEAT(EX. THE COWBELL AND TAMBORA DRUM, NOT SO MUCH THE CONGA. THE USE OF THE CYMBAL, WHICH ALSO PLAY THE SAME RHYTHM OF THE JING PING GWAJ. THIS RHYTHM IS ALSO FOUND IN THE "TIBWA" AND MARACAS/RATTLE-SCRAPER RHYTHMS PLAYED ON THE BELE, BIGUINE AND CHOUVAL BWA FROM THE FRENCH ANTILLES. ALL THIS BECAME PART OF THE STYLE THAT LATER EVOLVED INTO ZOUK, THOUGHT COMPAS LEFT THE BIGGEST INFLUENCE.

IT ALL STARTED WITH COMPAS, BUT THIS DOMINICA KADANS OR INFLUENCE COMING FROM DOMINICA AND THE FRENCH ANTILLES HAVE CHANGED COMPAS FROM THE MORE LATIN FEELING INTO A MORE COMMERCIAL GENRE OF MUSIC. COMPAS IS BEING PROMOTED OR SHOULD I SAY HAVE BEEN PROMOTED....ZOUK OR ZOUK LOVE ALWAYS BEEN A ROMANTIC GENRE SPEAKING ABOUT LOVE ISSUES, WHILE COMPAS WAS MORE UP TEMPO AND AGGRESSIVE. TODAY, COMPAS IS FOLLOWING THE SAME PATTERN AS ZOUK LOVE OR COMPAS LOVE. THAT'S WHERE THE CONFUSION STARTED. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 19:22, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

CADENCE-LYPSO AND ZOUK HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE THE 70'S AND 80'S, AND AFTER EVOLVING OVER THE YEARS U NOW EXPECT EVERYONE TO CAHNGE THE NAME TO COMPAS? TALKING ABOUT THE GENRE THAT HEPLED PUT MONEY ON OUR POCKETS LOL...WASN'T THAT THE SUCESS OF BANDS LIKE EXILE ONE AND KASSAV WHO PAVED THE WAY FOR MODERN CREOLE MUSIC? WHO WAS THE FIRST TO GET SIGN TO A MAJOR RECORD LABEL? OR STARTED TEH INTRODUCTION OF DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY SUCH AS THE SYNTHESIZERS AND MIDI...EVEN WHEN THE HAITAIN BANDS HAD TO UP GRADE THEIR COMPAS STYLE TO COMPETE BY ADDING SYNTHESIERS AND MORE TECHNOLOGY. DIDN'T THAT PROMOTE CREOLE MUSIC?

THANKS FOR THE TAMBORA DRUM AND COWBELLS, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT PUT MONEY IN ANYONE'S POCKET. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 19:40, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

LOOK AT THE SUCESS OF COMPAS IN HAITI, AS OPPOSED TO THE FRENCH ANTILLES, THEN TELL ME WHO MAKING THE MOST PROGRSS. U GAVE US A STYLE WE IMPROVED ACCIDENTALLY AS ZOUK...IT BECAME POPULAR PAVING A WAY FOR ALL TO BENEFIT, RIGHT?.....LIKE FOR EX. WHY IS THE NAME ZOUK IS SO MORE POPULAR THAT COMPAS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 19:44, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

FEEDBACK: I AM VERY BUSY BUT FEEL COMPEL TO REPLY. First, prior to the touring of Haitian artists with their MERINGUE (compas or cadence rampa) the Caribbean was playing calypso, beguine, marzouka and Latin and meringue/merengue. Since 1955 French Antilleans have adopted the music and dance of the meringue (compas/cadence). In Dominica French Antillean who masterized the compas style initiated Dominican in the style. then the tours of the Sicot brothers, Nemours Jean-Baptiste and almost all existing Haitian bands helped spread the seed of the meringue in the Caribbean. So today it is unfortunate to read the same people dancing and playing the same music telling how they mix, fusion...to create this or that music. You can do and say whatever you want as long as you don't change the name of compas. the dance, technic, rhythmic are style the same. By the way when your read cadence=lypso, Dominica cadence that means the same cadence music called cadence lypso in Dominica. finally why are we having all these names for one music style? why cannot we work togheter to promote the meringue which has benefited all of us? putting money into our pockets, giving visibility to our countries and cultures, etc. I have to go

Best regardsPintade (talk) 16:45, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

==About Cadence-lypso (Dominica kadans)............Read this and send me back you comments and views about it.

Webert Sicot, the originator of cadence known for his great virtuosity, mostly harmonic skills, was well appreciated in the Caribbean. This is why the term cadence was more popular than compas. Cadence-lypso is the Dominican kadans.

Cadence and calypso were the two dominant styles in Dominica hence the name cadence-lypso. The great majority of the songs are either calypso, reggae and mostly cadence or compas. If there is any fusion it should not be significant enough to be listed on album or CD covers. Finally cadence-lypso is danced the same way as compas.

Originally the word cadence or kadans was on album covers whether it's grammacks or exile one. They featured calypso, reggae and mostly cadence.

Exile One, the leader of the word cadence-lypso, featured some reggae, calypso and mostly cadence music. It is not sure whether the band's intent was to fusion Trinidadian calypso with Haitian cadence or compas since little was done. The song "La Dominique" in the Album "Exile One Old School Session" could be an attempt, however, not often repeated. The band music repertoire is mostly cadence or compas with all the features of the style. of course the band had its personality; it was a great kadans band. Exile One exported kadans music to many places: Japan, the Indian Ocean, Africa, North America, Europe, The Cape Verde islands

Other Dominica cadence bands included the Grammacks, Black Roots, Black Machine, Naked Feet, Belles Combo, Mantra, Black Affairs, Liquid Ice, Wafrikai, Midnighte Groovers and Milestone, while the most famous singers included Bill Thomas, Chubby Marc, Gordon Henderson, Linford John, Janet Azouz, Sinky Rabess, Tony Valmond, Jeff Joseph, Mike Moreau and Anthony Gussie. Ophelia Marie is a popular singer of cadence in the 1980s.

Gordon Henderson is the leader and founder of the musical group Exile One and the one who coined the name cadence-lypso for a genre of music that revolutionized creole music world wide. The group is considered by some to be one of the pioneers of soca. During the early 1970s, they initiated a fusion of cadence and calypso "Cadence-lypso" that would later influence the creation of soca music.

In the early 70's, the full-horn section Dominican band Exile One led by the talented Gordon Henderson was the first to use the synthesizers to their music that other young cadence or compas bands from Haiti (mini-jazz) and the French Antilles emulated in the 1970s. In Haiti, two of the most popular bands, Les Difficiles de Pétionville became D.P Express and Les Gypsies became Scorpio Universel after adding a full horn section in addition to their new keyboard synthesizer. In 1998, Tambou Combo acknowledged at the World Creole Music Festival in Dominica that they introduced a full-horn section to their music because of Exile One.

Cadence-lypso has evolved under the influence of Dominican and Caribbean/Latin rhythms, as well as rock guitars, soul-style vocals and funk bass and horn styles - music from the United States. By the end of the 1970s, Gordon Henderson defined Cadence-lypso as "a synthesis of Caribbean and African musical patterns fusing the traditional with the contemporary". It was pushed in the 1970s by groups from Dominica, and was the first style of Dominican music to find international acclaim. Cadence-lypso was influenced by nationalist movement that espoused Rastafari and Black Power. Many groups performed songs with intensely ideological positions, and much of the repertoire was in the vernacular kwéyòl language.

Grammacks and Exile One were two of the most influential figures in the promotion of cadence-lypso in the 1970's. They were inspirational for the French Antilles band Kassav and the emergence of zouk in the 1980s. Kassav' was formed in 1979 by Pierre-Edouard Décimus (former musicians from the Les Vikings de Guadeloupe) and Paris studio musician Jacob F. Desvarieux. Together and under the influence of well-known Dominican and Guadeloupean kadans or compas bands like Experience 7, Grammacks and Exile One, they decided to make Guadeloupean carnival music recording it in a more fully orchestrated yet modern and polished style.

Kassav' created its own style "zouk" by experimenting an eleven-piece gwo ka unit and two lead singers, tambour bélé, ti bwa, biguine, African styles and mostly cadence or compas with full use of the MIDI technology. Kassav', whose music repertoire is 90% compas, is the creator of the fast carnival zouk style. The French Antilles' Kassav' was the first to apply the MIDI technology to compas. In the 1980s they took Caribbean music to another level by recording in the new digital format. Today, zouk is considered to be the French Antilles cadence or compas music.

During the 1980s, cadence-lypso’s popularity declined greatly due to the emergence of zouk and soca music. Some Dominican performers remained famous, such as Ophelia, and became Dominica's first kadans female singer to achieve international star status. She is sometimes referred to as "Dominica's Lady of Song", the "First Lady of Creole", and "la grande dame de la musique Antillaise". She has toured widely in France and had concerts broadcast over much of the Francophone world. Her first recording was "Ay Dominique," a "lament for Dominica as the country underwent political problems in the 1970s". The rise of Ophelia had two critical impact: one, paving the way for female singers to become front singers and professionals in a number of genres and two, the eventual creation of zouk-love. Ophelia’s contribution to the development of regional music, particularly cadence (the origin of zouk), is well known, ever since she burst onto the music scene in 1979 with her popular hit “Aie Dominique”. When the record was released, it immediately became a hit in Guadeloupe and Martinique although this was towards the end of the dominance of Dominican music in the French West Indies.

Recently, efforts have begun to revitalize cadence and creole music generally through the holding of the World Creole Music Festival here in Dominica. This festival attracts top bands of the French Creole-speaking world and in Africa. Exile One, Jeff Joseph//new Generation Grammacks, Anthony Gussie and Tony Valmond/Liquid Ice have released a number of albums as well as remastered vintage cadence hits of the 1970s.

WCK or Windward Caribbean Kulture, was formed in 1988 by a group of highly creative young Dominican musicians. The band played a blend of the local Cadence-lypso and traditional Jing ping, Chante mas and lapo kabwit rhythms, which would later be labelled bouyon, a genre which they are credited with creating. While the Cadence-Lypso sound is based on the creative use of acoustic drums, an aggressive up-tempo guitar beat and strong social commentary in the native Creole language, the new sound created by WCK, focused more on the use of technology with a strong emphasis on keyboard rhythmic patterns. This group came together to fill a void left by several of Dominica's most internationally recognized bands such as Exile One and Grammacks. The band heralded in a new and much needed resurgence of live music and created a new wave in Dominicas musical evolution.

Soca

In the 70s with the frequent tours of the Sicot brothers, Exile One, and so many meringue bands, compas or cadence rampa as become very influential in several parts of the world, specifically the Caribbean. Its influence on the calypso gave rise to Soca, closer to cadence or compas.

The calypsonian Lord Shorty of Trinidad was the first to really define his music and with "Indrani" in 1973 and "Endless Vibration" (not just the song but the entire album) in 1975, calypso music really took off in another direction. Later in 1975 Lord Shorty visited his good friend Maestro in Dominica where he stayed (at Maestro's house) for a month while they visited and worked with local cadence or compas artists. You had Maestro experimenting with calypso and cadence. Sadly a year later Maestro would die in an accident in Dominica and his loss was palpably felt by Shorty, who penned "Higher World" as a tribute. In Dominica, Shorty had attended an Exile One performance of kadans, and collaborated with Dominica's 1969 Calypso King, Lord Tokyo and two calypso lyricists, Chris Seraphine and Pat Aaron in the early 1970s, who wrote him some Creole lyrics. Soon after Shorty released a song, "Ou Petit", with words like "Ou dee moin ou petit Shorty" (meaning "you told me you are small Shorty"). Soca's development includes calypso, cadence/compas, and Indian musical instruments—particularly the dholak, tabla and dhantal—as demonstrated in Shorty's classic compositions "Ïndrani" and "Shanti Om". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 16:29, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Why the tittle cadence-lypso is so important for French Antilleans?

The tittle cadence-lypso is maintained mostly by the French Antilleans unable to find a basis for the zouk love origination. As already explained, Jeff Gordon used the word cadence-lypso "mizika nou", "our music" because the band repertoire was calypso and mostly cadence: The two influential music of Dominica. Dominican cadence bands also feature reggae music. Originally the word kadans was on the albums covers whether it's grammacks or exile one. They all featured calypso, reggae and mostly cadence. Grammacks: mediba (kadans), banana (sweet-kadans), ou pa bon, (kadans), ou pitit (kadans), reggae down, disco live (kadans) this same tune is categorized as zouk retro by Deejay Zak (midlay kadans 11/24/2011) Exile one: akiyaka, gade deye...(Midnight) get ready 1997, etc. This part is not to completely deny any attempt made to fusion cadence and calypso, the point here is that the great majority of the songs are either calypso, reggae or mostly kadans. If there is any fusion it should not be significant enough to be listed on album or CD covers, which would be confusing. Finally there is not a cadence-lypso way of dancing.

First of all, zouk-love or zouk is gonna be played by Antilleans don't matter what is the basis, it been that way for many years. Thought I would say zouk-love is a fusion of beguine-bele (tibwa/chacha/tambour) and the cadence styles. (Inconsistencies: ISN'T ZOUK LOVE THE FRENCH ANTILLES COMPAS MUSIC? HOW COULD IT BE A FUSION OF BIGUINE....? WHERE IS YOUR BRAIN?)

Cadence-lypso (Dominica cadence) influence of creole music Dominican bands called cadence-lypso "cadence" as an abbreviation. The name cadence is in cadence-lypso because it was a fusion of cadence and calypso. Like Reggaeton, it was influenced by reggae, the name remains, but it have fused many other musical styles. Now you claiming it as a derivative of compas? It reminds me of zouk and cadence-lypso. And for cadence-lypso, it could sometimes be danced as jing ping, but it is danced exactly like calypso music. You may not hear the calypso influence in ou petit, mediba, or ou pa bon, but Dominicans/Trinidadians/Eastern Caribbean's could easily see that...you can't tell us about our culture. (ABOUT THE DANCE; IN DOMINICA FESTIVAL AND OTHER PLACES I SEE PEOPLE DANCE KADANS SAME AS JEFF) (ABREVIATION: YOU RESERVE DE RIGHT TO CHANGE ANYTIME, CADENCE OR COMPAS, A STYLE THAT YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER CREATED FOR YOU?)SO MANY CONTRADICTIONS....

Zouk retro is actually the style of zouk that resembles cadence-lypso the most. (STUPIDITY: COMPAS WAS TAKEN TO THE CARIBBEAN PLACES SINCE 1955. KADANS LYPSO WORD WAS USED IN THE EARLY 74; YOU START USING ZOUK IN THE MID 80S; YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ZOUK RESEMBLANCE WITH KADANS LYPSO...THIS IS CRAZY...WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE ANY FUSION BEFORE KADANS OR COMPAS? THIS IS STUPIDITY HOW COULD YOU EVEN REPEAT SUCH A NON-SENSE? And either way, cadence-lypso is a basis of zouk-love, that's why you can't admit to the genre so you call it compas. That makes compas the basis right?. However, cadence-lypso is still alive...a fusion of cadence or compas with calypso, jing ping, a little bit of rock, soul and funk, a full-horn section, synthesizers, and MIDI technology in a big band format. (This is not a Haitian creation). Remember, Dominican bands were the first to play that way, thanks to Exile One and Grammacks, singers like Ophelia Marie was the first female kadans singer to achieve international acclaim; took kadans to the all over the Francophone world, eventually evolving into zouk love. As the first female singer, many female singer were inspired and imitated her style. She is considered the first lady of creole, Dominica lady of songs, and Godmother of zouk love.

Exile One was the first to use the full-horn section and synthesizers that was imitated by Haitian/French Antillean bands....most importantly Kassav, the originator of zouk music. Exile One took Kadans to the four corners of the world and was to first kadans/cadence-lypso bands to sign with a major recording company. (Barclay records)(SO WAS EXILE ONE THE FIRST TO USE A HORN SECTION IN THE WORLD? IN HAITI? WHAT ABOUT ALL THE HAITIAN BIG BANDS? ANYWAY ADDING AN INSTRUMENT IS NOT A CHANGE IN THE STYLE; BUT VARIATION. YOU'RE SAYING ALL TIME THE FIRST TO ADD A HORN SECTION...WHAT ABOUT THE MINI JAZZ AND THE BIG BANDS USING THE HORN FOR MANY YEARS? (STUPIDITIES)

In Haiti, two of the most famous bands DP Express and Scorpio Universal adopted to the style. In 1998, Tambou combo admit at the World Creole Music Festival in Dominica that they added a full-horn section because of Exile One. Exile One was also the first to use the synthesizers. The president of Haiti/President of compas....the one who started the digital compas gave tribute to Grammacks to his contribution to his music "Cadence-lypso"...saying this was the only music outside of Haiti that could compete with Haitian bands and from there Haitian bands started to develop their music. (CREDITS ARE GIVEN TO ALL THE BANDS AFTER ALL BECAUSE YOU CREATE A STYLE DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO BE THE BEST ALL TIMES ...THERE IS ONLY ONE PROBLEM ...ONLY WHEN YOU TAKE THE LIBERTY TO RENAME THE STYLE AND TO TAKE CREDIT FOR CREATING A NEW ONE. YOU SAY ALL YOU WANT BUT NOT CREATING A NEW STYLE WHILE YOU'RE PLAYING KONPA OR KADANS; WHERE DID YOU GET THAT MENTALITY OF ENVY AND FREE RIDERS?)

In the early 70's, Lord Shorty "the father of soca" visited Dominica where he attended an Exile One performance of Cadence-lypso and collaborated with many Dominican Calypso/Cadence musicians who wrote him some creole lyrics. Soon after, Shorty recorded a song "ou petit", a fusion of calypso, cadence. and the creole lyrics...this is considered to be the first "soca" song, another cadence-lypso tune (calypso and cadence). (THIS IS ARROGANCE AND PROPAGANDA...EXILE ONE AND OTHERS WHERE PLAYING CADANS NOW SAYING THAT SOCA CAME FROM CADENCE LYPSO IS UNACCEPTABLE. NOW IS YOU SAY THAT EXILE ONE INFLUENCE OR INSPIRE LORD WITH HIS KADANS WE CAN AGREE)

In 1988, Windward Caribbean Kulture started a fusion of jing ping and cadence-lypso...this later became bouyon music. Bouyon have become a fast jump up music combining elements of Jing ping, cadence-lypso, bele, quadrille, zouk beton, and most significantly the chante mas and Lapokabrit carnival music of Dominica. I HAVE NO QUESTION

Bouyon started combining elements of the Jamaican ragamuffin music...a style called Bouyon-muffin. More popular than cadence-lypso, Bouyon-muffin have changed the musical culture of Dominica. Currently, Bouyon is popular in the French island of Guadeloupe (Gwada)...a style call Bouyon Gwada or Bouyon hardcore.

There is also styles like Bouyon soca, a fusion of bouyon and soca music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.205.126.84 (talk) 02:23, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

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Dominica play Kadans or Dominica Kadans, but there is also cadence-lypso, a fusion with calypso music.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.251.128.3 (talk) 05:37, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Cadence-lypso is a fusion of cadence + calypso, hence the name. (GIVE ME TWO SONGS OF THIS FUSION: AND A WAY OF DANCING IT) YOU'RE STILL TALKING WITH NO EXAMPLEPintade (talk) 02:49, 24 March 2014 (UTC))Listen to some of Nemour and Sicot music, the conga and merengue beat is present, but it is not as constructive as caence-lypso, the true precursor for zouk music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.205.126.84 (talk) 01:21, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

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April 2012

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Zouk. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

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If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. bonadea contributions talk 19:02, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Kizomba

If you does not know anything about music do not invent. All the music from Antilles and South America is of African origin, so it is very normal, for much strange it looks, that looks-like African music. Plus, the famous merengue, originates in Angola and was brought to south America by Angolan slaves, and Zouk uses African rhythms such as Makossa, so despite being a strange coincidence, it is not surprising that Zouk sounds like the Kizomba and it is not surprising that those who do not know what is Kizomba, made confusion with Cabo-Zouk a bad imitation of Zouk made ​​in Cape Verde. So stop misrepresent the article Kizomba because you are committing a blunder. Zorglub-PRV (talk) 19:07, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

FEEDBACK

Dear fellow, when I write about something I make a solid case and provide with sound reference. I will be brieve. It is true that most Caribbean and South American music have African roots. However, if a music style has been already there years ago, everybody must, by decency acknowlege it. For example, Haitian meringue has been around since the 1800s. Featured by not only Haitian artits but foreigners too. In 1955 the meringue-compas was introduced to the Caribbean Islands where it was absorbed mostly in Dominica and the French Antillean of Martinique and Guadeloupe. A music style has its charasteristics. Therefore we are surprised to hear meringue-compas been called kizomba or zouk. In fact there was only one zouk, the fast zouk beton: a mix of African, gwo ka, biguine, cadence, etc. but it lost ground due to the popularity of the meringue. Zouk love is pure meringue-compas. We hear exactly the same most distinguishible features of meringue-compas in whether kizomba or zouk or Cabo style. The discrepency is that compas has been around way before these so-called styles. English artists have not changed the rock n'roll name eventhough the groups were different in their styles. South American artists did not change salsa name. There is no bluff...either you can create your music or you adopt an existing style with respect.

The truth is that Haitians are pure African men and women who have already inherited music from their ancestors. The French and African from St. Domingue brought the music to Cuba, Puerto Rico, the USA...and since the 60s, 70s when many African countries where not yet free, Haiti has been influencing countries with its meringue. Coupe Cloue, Bossa Combo, Tabou Combo...were influencing bands in Africa, south America and the Caribbean. Even before the zouk term was popularized, Cabo verdeans were playing meringue-compas. see artist TITO PARIS in "danca mami Criola" I don't know where the cabozouk comes from when the zouk itself is not a proper style but the French Antillean meringue-compas. Kassav promoted meringue-compas as zouk in Africa.

As an independant nation since 1804, Haiti had plenty of time to develop its music. These African have made great contribution to the world music. Therefore, as featured kizomba (Hugo-Bempa pista/Iron-Minha Metade/Volta pami/Djanelli-Na linguiyo...), zouk, cabo styles, all are meringue-compas derivatives because they sound the same and use the same technics.

Now I would be very happy if you could educate me on the Angola merengue. includind the origine of the word merengue.

Thank youPintade (talk) 00:50, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

This is my last attempt to make you understand the reality. The Angolan merengue, is the original merengue. According to the references I have put in the bottom of your Talk page, and which you can find in the article Merengue, and you clearly can not read because it is in Spanish, the musical style merengue was brought by slaves from Angola to the South-America. Presently the South-Americam Merengue evolved into a more dynamic style. The Kizomba was a gradual evolution, which went through several musical styles, having been an evolution of the Semba, the style that gave rise to Brazilian Samba,and despite the seemingly Kizomba and Zouk be similar, there are slight differences in musical structure. Much of this confusion arises because Cape-Verdeans in France, created a bad copy of the Zouk, the Cola-Zouk, which is sung by Portuguese-speaking peoples, and wrongly mistaken whit Kizomba, leading a lot of people who know nothing of the matter to think that Kizomba is indeed Cola-zouk, which is entirely false. All this is very well explained and referenced in the pt wiki article. Regarding the origins of the word merengue, I often smile reading pathetic attempts to explain the origin of the word, since it is a word in the native language of Angola "mbundu" which means "drag" and the dance gained its name because dancers drag one foot when are dancing, and is also the name of a sweet that gain that name because it is done by "dragging" the dough in the pan, but unfortunately as Angola is a new country, leaving a few years ago a fratricidal civil war, not yet has done almost nothing in defence of their cultural backgrounds, which has been stolen for centuries by the Portuguese and Brazilians. Zorglub-PRV (talk) 21:00, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

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Merengue and Kizomba

Everything is well documented, as long as you know how to read. This is from the article Merengue and this from the article Kizomba, right here on en wiki. Zorglub-PRV (talk) 15:30, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Feedback Gracias por su amabilidad. Puedo leer y comentar tambien. I suggest that you read pages 100, 109, 133, 135-7 to have and idea of the polemic between Dominicans and Haitians on the origination of the word meringue. We know this already amigo. Dominican were just trying to trace the word merengue when they mentioned Angola while Haitian traced it from a French or English origination. sorry babe. There is no such thing as Angolan meringue.

There are many references in relation to the name and style have been brought there by Angolan slaves, but hard to find on the net. The Brazilians hate being told that Samba, Capoeira and Berimbau, are indeed Angolan or Angolan origin even the tango dance is originated in Angola, and the Dominicans and Haitians just do not want to study these sources correctly because they don't have interest in that. Is easy to read the Portuguese books about the national languages of Angola, and find there the origin of the word merengue and is meaning, so I still don't understand why historians don't do that, except for the only logical reason that the British hate to study story from different origins others them English origins, and that's a fact, I have done my Phd in the UK and basically they ignore references that aren't from English spoken origins. Zorglub-PRV (talk) 21:14, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

FEED BACK Contrarily to your asumption that I can not read Spanish...or the Dominican article is well documented...I am asking you to be careful in the future. It is a known fact that enslaved Africans brought their music everywhere. In fact the samba, meringue/merengue, calypso, tango, contradance...all have in common the same roots. The African brought their music to the Mores in Spain and other places way before the 16th century. All music evolve from the voice and response step...

One important factor that creates a diversity is the distance and the grouping of people from different regions. In the case of Haiti, the Chica, calenda, minuet... have been creolized in the tropics. Hispanola during the occupation was filled with many African tribes..mostly Benin, west Africa...and few others. These ancestors had to cope with everything including mixing their music with those of the masters. The meringue developed by African-Haitians was brought to the eastern part, today RD, during its occupation around 1822; some Dominican books acknowlege it. In addition, the Dominican spent a long time fighting all link with their African culture instead proning a Eurocentrism...you know that.

Let us admit for a minute that Meringue came from Angola, the questions are: would it had evolved the same way? if yes why waiting for the tours of kassav with its meringue-compas mostly to show interest in the style. Why you are ready to credit the zouk, which is in fact a meringue-compas and make a big deal when it comes to give credit to compas? I guess you know there was only one zouk style? the fast zouk beton. Since the 80s the French Antilleans have gone back to their meringue-compas roots. Finally why you cannot handle a simple discussion to the point of calling a block? Where were you and those behing the kizomba before the 80s when the Haitian meringue-compas was all over the Caribbean, Africa, South America and others? you know "Coupe Cloue" named the king in the Ivory Coast brought that slow meringue style? During the 50s, Dominica, Grenada, Martinique and Guadeloupe received the seed of the meringue-compas to become compas lands today. Take the time to listen to Cabo verdean artist Tito Paris "danca mami Creola" and tell me if there were zouk, kizomba, samba in his music. most of them were not even around. You see what I am talking about? I am not exagerating brother. Don't underestimate the person in front of you in the future.

Now unless you write your own book like I am doing it, don't just try to impose something that has no reference at all. You will have to present it and until you can do so, the Haitian meringue is the oldest reference to go with. I guess I have made the point.

I don't have any problem with anybody; my priority is to promote Haitian music played and copied without getting proper credit. This is nothing personal (regarless or race, color, gender, country...)

Regards

September 2012

You have been blocked temporarily from editing for edit warring, as you did at Kizomba. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding below this notice the text {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.

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KIZOMBA IS NOT WHAT YOU HAVE STATED

Your definition of kizomba doesn't match the reality. I have already dicussed it with you but you haven't done any improvement. Your action seem to be dictated more by proud than objectivity. You said that you hold a Phd; so that means your work should be based on objectivity and sound arguments. If not I am certain that by ethics you would reject anything contrary to these criteria. Your kizomba definition doesn't match the reality for 3 reasons:

The Angolan merengue has not been recorded anywhere. African enslaved men and women brought everywhere with them their roots music that throughout centuries and under different places have evolved into different and close styles. Calypso in Trinidad, meringue in Haiti, samba in Brasil are examples. Haitians and Dominicans have made many attempts to trace the origination of the word meringue, which is, according to your sources, an Angolan world. This is not surprising since the colonies where populated by African men and women from different regions. The word samba meaning music composer, priest exists in the Creole language but that doesn't mean Haitien were familiar with the samba music style. If an Angolan meringue existed, people would have recorded and promoted it. Is there an Angolan discography? who featured it? therefore in absence of proof it makes sense to take it off the kizomba origination. Another consideration is the absence of the meringue-compas style as source of the kizomba. A review of many kizomba tunes has however, shown a strong similarity, even too much with meringue-konpa or zouk, the French Antillean konpa.

Kizomba all stars; 04 Nta Amado (Neusa) 02 Nha Joya (Nichols)

Kizomba Benefica: 1 Sexual Healing slan 3 Ameyatchi (Mathey) 4 Cherie mon amour/Manulima & Mark G remix (GilSemedo) 6 Voce Vai ver (feat. Juka) kizomba Brasil Juka kizomba hits vol 2 7 Pause Kizomba Axel Tony Pause kizomba 8 Heven (Mark G;s kizomba remix) Kaysha Bailar kizomba Sushiraw 11 Real Peu pen kizomba Bruno Pereira Danca de verao kizomba 12 Heaven remix 13 kizomba de roda dj Christiano 15 Samora kizomba Bruno Pereira danca de verao kizomba 17 Eu Sei (Eeat Helvio) kizomba Brasil Helvio kizomba hits vol 2 21 Soho 2012 remix light ou dj Isidora kizomba Afro Latino 24 A Cabeca Doi kizomba exitos vol 1 30 Oh Fala Bem kizomba exitos vol 1 36 Mal acostumado feat Mikas Cabral kizomba Brasil k2 vol 2 39 Sonho A Dois kizomba Grandes exitos do Brasil vol 2 42 Velha infancia Mikas Cabral, Neusa kizomba Brasil viva kizomba - Flamkim ta sta Sempre Kaysha kizomba life 17 Musiquarian feat Jacob Desvarieux Keysha 19 Acabeca Doi, etc. are real meringue-compas. You can always listen to Zekle a of the 80s and most konpa Haiti or French Antilles to see that as featured the kizomba is in fact strongly influenced by meringue-compas if not purely konpa.Pintade (talk) 21:24, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

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November 2012

Please do not add or change content, as you did to Zouk-love, without verifying it by citing reliable sources. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you.

Please be careful when you make your "restores" of text to articles; you tend to remove wikified content and text that has been edited for better readability, neutrality and grammaticality. Please try to keep a neutral point of view both in the article text and in your edit summaries - do not attack other editors. Please also note that YouTube is not a reliable source. bonadea contributions talk 15:21, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Dear Bonadea Your interventions have sent me a mix signal: While you are committed to guiding the works of editors, however, some of your actions appear to be a little biased to me when it comes to protecting zouk articles even if they are not accurate. You have put compas music on the list of "not reliable material" without being specific. I tried to comply with your recommendations to provide with more references. What you read in the compas section is what is written in the books of many authors. However, how come kassav whose musicians were schooled in compas or cadence styles claim taday they are only a zouk band with a music repertoire of 80% compas. the fast zouk beton is a mix of gwo ka, beguine, calypso, cadence, African, etc with the full use of the MIDI technology. Now kassav discography shows a great many of compas tunes. In fact compas has been since the late 50s the basic music of the French Antilles. So I am confused here.Pintade (talk) 16:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)Pintade (talk) 17:02, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

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January 2013

Please do not add commentary or your own personal analysis to Wikipedia articles, as you did to Compas music. Doing so violates Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia. Thank you. Wikipedia articles do not tell people that 'X is the truth' or 'Y is strange' Dougweller (talk) 15:16, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your notice I will try to respect it. However, Most of the facts on Caribbean music have not been written yet. Some writers have done a descent job but reliable information has to be compiled. Sometimes an information is so exaggerated that you have to make a point. For example, anybody can write a questionable article and site it as reference. It is mileading. In this case I counteract with a good point based on facts. But if this is contrary to Wikipedia policy... Thank youPintade (talk) 13:06, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

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Kassav'

Your recent editing history at Kassav' shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

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Hi

I am not deliberately engaged into an edit war with anybody; I just wish that people could live up to the criteria of reliability instead of emotion. A good example is to read that French Caribbean band kassav is only a zouk band. This is incorrect since the music repertoire of the band is 80% compas music and the band's discography is there to prove it. The fast zouk beton definition shows the inacuracy. In addition, several writers including Gage Averill, Peter Manuel, Jocelyne Guilbauld and others have written on the matter. So why continue posting false data?Pintade (talk) 16:08, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't matter whether you are deliberately edit warring or not - you are edit warring. Disputes like this should be sorted out on the article talk page, drawing on reliable sources, rather than by reverting each other. If reliable sources demonstrate that your interpretation is correct, that's fine - but you need to discuss, and indicate what your sources are. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:24, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

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April 2013

Please stop attacking other editors, as you did on Cadence-lypso. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia. bonadea contributions talk 18:14, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

It's not a personal attack but an amusing warning. I know that they won't have any valid argument to counter what I am going to post and that is the funny part. I have been dealing with them for sometimes. I have been cool enough to help with good editing.

I have made several unsuccessful attempts to work together on the cadence-lypso page but it seems propaganda is a better choice instead. I have played by the rules and even sent a warning. Actually there has never been a fusion of cadence and calypso. Exile one the originator of the word featured separated calypso, reggae and mostly cadence tunes. At least the term "cadence of Dominica" was accepted but the problem is the fact that now I read that cadence-lypso influenced compas music, kadans, soca, bouillon. How could cadence-lypso, which is nothing but the Dominica cadence, influence kadans/cadence or compas again? (kadans is the Creole term for cadence; cadence and compas are the same modern meringue named differently by two challengers Nemours and Sicot.)

Their main objective here is to lay a valid foundation for the zouk, which is in fact the French Antilles compas or cadence. The original and only zouk styles was the fast carnival zouk beton that had lost ground since the 80s. Everytime a valid correction is made, it's deleted after a few days to start with the same confusion and this has been going on over and over. How many times you receive a protection request for compas music? never. but how many time you received the same request for zouk, cadence lypso or kizomba? several times. It takes a fight for these editors to edit their exagerations.

Thank you Pintade (talk) 18:37, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

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Hi I just wanted to create the page until I can provide with the complete article. I will start over. Thank you

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• [zouk love]], characterized by a slow, soft and sexual rhythm is the French Antilles [[compas music]]. It often
• mostly the team up conga-cowbell-drum, which is the most distinguishable feature of the meringue. (It is usually aggressive and originally featured a full-horn section and synthesizers.

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• |popularity = Popular in the [[French Caribbean]] etc.)
• the French Antilles [[kassav]] in the 1980s. Actually zouk is the French Antilles compas music<ref>) Peter Manuel, Musics of the Non-Western World, p74, University Press 1994 </ref>

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January 1, 2014

Hi friend and good morning! Now, I try to be as precise as possible as it is just my personality to be on point with subjects of interest. Could we all just edit peacefully? As far as propaganda is concerned, there is none. I am just stating origins. Is a Haitian musician not a Haitian as well? That was also referenced, so I do not know why you would undo my edits. Seems like its personal. Not only that but the compas genre was purposely called kadan because of a rivalry but at the end of the day it is the same as it is always used in the same context each and every time. I would just like to see credit where its due and I will keep working to find more and more sources to back my claim. When you reverted me before you were off by 20 years. Well good day to you sir, hope we can begin to see eye to eye on unforeseeable topics of the future!

P.S. To clarify about Merengue. Dominican as in from the Dominican Republic not Dominica (easy confusion there), that is what it was saying it was from which is wrong. It said merengue or méringue (which is correct), as if it didn't know which to have in the article. Its a chain reaction. One genre influences the next and the next like for example "Son Cubano" which influenced Salsa music and then its final form "Timba." Its like the grandparent. Savvyjack23 (talk) 17:21, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Update! January 20, 2014

I just reviewed that last edit on Nemours Jean Baptiste and you know what that was the correct text to use. My apologies on that one! Happy editing. Savvyjack23 (talk) 17:32, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

My pleasure Sir; be assured of my commitment to present sound and objective articles to enlighten Wikipedia readers.Pintade (talk) 03:15, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I see your point on Zouk. That does make a lot of sense. Thank you for that and your commitment and contribution; our goal is very similar. Keep up the good work! Savvyjack23 (talk) 18:37, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! my pleasure!Pintade (talk) 20:03, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

January 28, 2014 (The "Real" Zouk)

Okay so since Zouk faded in the 80s, where do we go from here? Can we also added citations as well? Savvyjack23 (talk) 02:33, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

The fast carnival zouk beton, the only zouk style, was an attempt to counter compas music in the French Antilles. As a result a portion of the French Antilles population, proud to have created a proper style, has been promoting it all over, even erroneously too much. The truth is, too fast, the jump up beat zouk beton was not danceable. French Antilleans who have never stopped dancing and playing compas, have continued to use the term zouk erroneously just for the sake of keeping alive their so-called legacy. Therefore you would hear zouk love, zouk R&B...the so-called cited zouk love artists such as Erick Virgal, Jocelyn Beroard, Patrick St. Elois... are all compas artists who have grown up playing compas music ...from Difficiles de Petion Ville...Tabou combo, Skah shah to Magnum band.

Citations can be added; one is provided by Peter Manuel in his Popular Musics of the Non-Western World, Oxford University Press 1988: (...zouk may become practically indistinguishable from compas)p74

The problem with the zouk article is its exaggerations and contradictions: zouk has faded away in the 80s. compas has been the music of the French Antilles since the late 50s; so why not working together to promote one music? if you're playing compas why calling it zouk love? why tracing the origination of zouk from cadence-lypso? when cadence-lypso is the same meringue-cadence introduced by the Sicot brother or Nemours in the Caribbean in the 50s-60s? the fast zouk beton is not danceable therefore cannot share too many similarities with kadans...there is a propensity not to give credits to compas. if you you playing compas what is the need to mention that zouk influence this or that style. As I often say, pride and narcissism are not enough to create a music style.

I hope I made the point here

RegardsPintade (talk) 14:57, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes you did. Thank you for this insight. I will help look into this fact. To be frank, this makes a lot of sense. I've listened to modern-day "zouk" while listening to compas and I couldn't tell which was which. So what is the zouk that the Brazilians keep claiming? Zouk-lambada? The problem with this subject as well as the other music from the Caribbean, is the failure of these other countries outside of this hemisphere to own up to its roots and acknowledge credit where it should be due.Savvyjack23 (talk) 18:59, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Zouk lambada? simply a fiction. Originally, zouk beton is a fast carnival beat that lost ground in the 80s. Since the introduction of the mid-tempo meringue compas or cadence during the 50s, French Antilleans have adopted the music and the dance. Now what's the connection between a fast carnival beat non danceable zouk beton and the mid-tempo Brasilian samba? None. Samba, meringue, calypso, beguine and even the Cuban son...have the same African roots with a special feature. To get back to our zouk-lambada we can definitely stated that French Antilles artists have gone to Brasil featuring compas music that as usual they will promote as zouk. Kassav, which music repertoire is 90% compas has not made any mention of compas. If you look at the band's site you'll see only zouk. What can you do? Narcissism, exaggeration, propaganda. However, I always gave French Antilles credits for their contribution to compas; the problem they assume to have a proper style; they want to create confusion...confusion will allow zouk to exist...there should be no confusion at all. compas is compas as rock is rock...salsa, reggae with proper characteristics. RegardsPintade (talk) 05:12, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

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Merger proposal, and Zouk

You are absolutely right and I have been expecting it since Wikipedia has announced it. Believe me, should I be the decision maker there would be only one cadence article including rampa, kadans and lypso. Everybody wants to have his music genre even when it's the same music. Looking forward to working on it. regardsPintade (talk) 15:53, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

There is no such thing as "calypso combined with compas". The truth is calypso was the dominant style before cadence or compas come to Dominica. Maestro Gordon mentioned "our music" muzikanou, which include calypso and cadence. A review of cadence-lypso bands shows that Exile one for example features separate calypso, reggae and mostly cadence or compas tunes. There hasn't been any possible fusion. if yes at what level was that fusion? rhythmic? percussion? Now sticking with propaganda for many reasons is one but enlighten readers is another. So the many meringue bands tours in the Caribbean have left no influence? You would not see this resistance to the rock an roll; American do not have this resistance with English artists who adopted rock and spread it everywhere even though they had famous great bands like Beatles and others for example. Their sound was new they could have easily gotten into a new stuff band wagon. They didn't do it knowing that a music style has a range of tempo and variations as long as the basic, what Peter Manuel would call the most distinguishing features, is there. Finally, you know about references...Micheline Guilbaud was misleaded on zouk and cadence-lypso...lol..they had her listen to another music style...lol I will help you in this project. Best regardsPintade (talk) 16:30, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I would like to possibly merge Kadans into Cadence rampa. It is the same exact thing, just the creole way of spelling it. On the kadans article page it incorrectly says that "cadence-lypso is another name for cadence/kadans" when it should say "calypso combined with compas" is the "cadence-lypso or "Dominican" kadans, which is true to the source provided and that there is no need for cadence rampa and kadans to have separate pages; both the same brought by Sicot. Do you agree? I know it can potentially cause an uproar but I have many sources that support this. I think it is absurd to have both. I've never merged articles before; could you help? Savvyjack23 (talk) 06:47, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

We both know that zouk is being unfairly written about. As you brought to my attention earlier was that this current zouk article is about "beton" the fast paced rhythm that had lost ground, and the zouk love is really compas returning to the slow beat, and that is the zouk heard (compas) of today. The Zouk love page itself should be renamed to zouk while the current zouk page should be moved into zouk beton. However, it should note on the new zouk page (zouk love), that "zouk love" is another way of saying zouk of today. I also found sources for this as well. Once it is sourced properly, it would make it hard for someone to revert and it could possibly warrant a block indifferently. We know they cannot provide evidence, even the references they provide tell a different tale. I feel like the subject can be overwhelming due to the propaganda but I think it can be accomplished. From here, it will set up the rest of the articles on the right foot. Savvyjack23 (talk) 06:47, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Ok Savvyjack23, with your help we will reach that objective.Pintade (talk) 16:34, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

!Hola! Savvyjack23 take a look at the cadence rampa article to see for yourself. You have started the merging on a good step; we'll gradually improve it with concisions and references. I guess it ready...ThanksPintade (talk) 00:15, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, you are very welcome. Indeed the table is set! Savvyjack23 (talk) 09:12, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

In regards to the fusion of konpa and calypso the reference is here. [1] If this is going to be resolved, we have to try to find mutual ground. This article will be used by them to counter what you are saying. We still know it is konpa or konpa derived; therefore credit is given to its creator. For example "mini-jazz" isn't the same as American jazz since konpa direk rhymes are used as well. But is it not jazz? Of course it is. It doesn't discredit the creator. I don't see cadence-lypso trying to undermine cadence. In fact, they are the ones who are actually giving credit by keeping the name "cadence" in the name, unlike zouk love. Savvyjack23 (talk) 09:34, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

You have good intentions, however, I fear you might involuntarily be willing to create a platform for propaganda. I am familiar with your sources therefore beware of contradictions. Jocelyne Guilbaud has not always been objective. Your #1 reference source is replete with inaccuracies and contradictions: - Mazouk, which has its origine in the polka???? - Cadence-lypso combines calypso with konpa (really?) again konpa is only a Creole music genre (minimization)? - Dominican exponents of cadence-lypso are exile one, Orphelia? (both have mostly a cadence/compas repertoire)? - zouk music from Martinique and soca arrived in Dominica in the 1980s and its eclipsed cadence-lypso? The same people stated that cadence-lypso gave rise to soca? - Must funny part: zouk take its influence from reggae and salsa? also: soca is a fusion of calypso and Trinidadian Indian music? really?

Reference #2 contradicts ref. #1 in many occasions. Do you realize how sublime is the zouk? something that only last less than 5 years? you can also read several statements I made also.

I see two alternatives to help: first I can allow them to add their contradictory statement and add my version in the same article Second alternative: fight them on the basis of inconsistency. I am almost done with my book on music in the world.

RegardsPintade (talk) 04:07, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

[2] This is even in my own source about the fusion. This source has been very reliable for me. Savvyjack23 (talk) 10:34, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Cadence rampa and kadans merger complete. Let's try to keep it and move on to the problems with the zouk page. I issued a indefinite block warning to 203.205.126.84 in regards to his latest edits to méringue and compas. Savvyjack23 (talk) 20:43, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks!this guy is a pain; he doesn't understand anything just a passionate. Ok I was traveling by tomorrow I will have some free time and I will start it. by the way, have you sent me your phone number?Pintade (talk) 06:01, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Savvyjack23: It has become not easy to edit the zouk page I have attempted a several times without success.Pintade (talk) 02:15, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Pintade: troisquatreseptdeuxsixseptzérohuitquatrehuit

Hi User:Savvyjack23 are you available? problem with articlesPintade (talk) 15:16, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi Pintade, long time no speak. Yes I am available to assist. What exactly needs to be addressed? Savvyjack23 (talk) 17:45, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

User:Savvyjack23, glad to hear from you! have you taken a look at both the compas music and zouk articles? They have gone to several arbitrations and vandalism, placed on protective status to become stable until the periodical usual action of not too knowledgeable editors. Some editors from Wikipedia are mostly concerned about references without questioning their validity or relevance, and I am not comfortable with that. ThanksPintade (talk) 16:21, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

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Message

Sure thing! Also, make sure when you come out with your book, to spell it "méringue," otherwise people will think your publishing a cookbook lol. (See the meringue dessert) I also found something new today. Angolan, semba is also compas and heard twoubadou sounds in another song but doubt they were calling it that. See the videos on this page [3] There's also yet another editor of semba music denying Haitian influence saying that it came before it; little does he know that it probably didn't come before méringue. It just never stops... Savvyjack23 (talk) 06:53, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

First let me thanks you for you convincing reply to the guys on the "coladeira" Second, don't worry the tittle is already there and the book is 70% done. By the way, one should be a little careful: meringue, samba, beguine, etc. have in common the same basic feature, the cinquillo; the difference is within a variation among them. The Angolan and other African tribes spread their music to Spain (the Mores) and Brazil. These styles are sisters. Now I agree with a certain meringue influence; the direct compas has influenced them big time. Also the meringue cake is not too convincing as a reliable origination for the tittle meringue, same is the word marrying.

Thank you

gene.50@live.com Pintade (talk) 17:04, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

September 2014

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Notice

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Compas. Thank you. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 22:57, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

I started another discussion at here. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 02:06, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Cadence rampa

Is this name-calling referring to me? I removed everything since it is unsourced pursuant to WP:V. As for "the original article", feel free to restore it all if you can provide sources for it but otherwise it needs to be removed. If you disagree, there's a discussion at WP:ANI right now. -- 05:03, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Now that's how you view an act of vandalism? name calling that is all you can retain here? what about the vandalism on the compas page to benefit the cadence-lypso article? why don't you read the contradictions and irrelevances" from the cadence-lypso and zouk pages? Have you read about the influence and the presence Haitian meringue in the Caribbean and Cuba, south America and even in North America? do I need to lecture to enlighten you about the cadence rampa of the Sicot brothers and Nemours who toured the Caribbean in the 50s to cement the seed of their music? isn't that obvious to you? Now everything is fusion while they dance and feature the same music...Not everyboday has time to waste in vain editing because of fanatics. If you go left and right and called an existing music another name you cannot expect zero reactions....so create a music style that you won't acknowledge while you want to get credit renaming it? this is funny Pintade (talk) 05:15, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

I have no idea who's in the right here because neither of you include any sources. Lecture me all you way but if you want to be taken seriously, then you need to provide proof why you are in the right and the other views are wrong. Rather than let the arguing continue as it has for close to a year, I'd rather cut everything out and let the person who can actually support their theory go at it. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:57, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

                                             Feedback

I would believe that after all these years of exchange you would have had a clear idea on who has been objective? Everything I said is all over the net and mostly in the books of Peter Manuel (Musics of Non Western World, Gage Averil (A day for the Prey a day for the hunter, Cartier (Les blancs debarquent, Jean Fouchard (La meringue dance Haitienne), (Haiti and the Antebeluum), etc.

Haitian music started its influence since 1800s over the world music (Cuba, Puerto Rico, South America, etc.) I guess you know about Latin artists who all featured meringue tunes? from Celias Cruz, Daniel Santos, Oscar de Leon..American Harry Belafonte, etc.

You know that prior to Haitian tours within the Caribbean there was no such music? After 1955 the Caribbean was initiated to the meringue cadence or compas? French Antilleans artists were playing marzouka, beguine, meringue/merengue and Latin.

What is obvious and you don't want to admit or understand is the fact that all these Islands want to have a proper music legacy. Therefore we hear about fusion, merger, etc. while in fact they are featuring the same music including dance and style. Have you listened to a so-called cadence-lypso tune in comparison with a compas tunes? what's the difference? What is the zouk music? cannot be defined with accuracy: why it faded away In the same 80s? this fast carnival beat was undanceable this is why the Antilleans people have never stopped dancing compas or cadence. English men and women alike French and others have adopted rock n roll without renaming it till today; why French Antilleans have instead taken the liberty to call compas zouk? when they have been initiated to this style since the 50s?

Why when touring kassav and other French Antilles artists promote compas as zouk? the same compas music including the dance and music? So Haitian should sit down and let people they initiated to their music renamed it and take full credit?

what more do you need to be convinced of the real fact? isn't that obvious? You can easily differentiate objectivity from propaganda. I provided with sound references most of the time while they invented references from one source, Jocelyne Guilbault and mostly the internet.

I have nothing else to show you in order to convince you since you can either ask them or throughout the inconsistencies contained in their articles you'll see the truth. I do not get paid as a contributor. I am busy. So if I take the time as a book writer to research and poste these articles it does make sense to let anybody dictated by narcissism to just erase everything for the sake of existing. Take the time using your analytic skills and see the passion and contradictions, inconsistencies...of these articles. Take the time to think also about Haitian contribution to the world music before and after the 50s. Best Regards2604:2000:B167:D100:D16C:7F00:A5A7:A8E1 (talk) 13:00, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Here a good example of inconsistency and irrelevance. Use your analytic skills and you'll see my point Sir. This is why allowing egotistic neophytes to vandalize objective articles with references is some how offensive. Haitian musicians have not only created cadence, compas and other styles but they have schooled other countries to their music. These discussions shouldn't have taken place at all. it is like asking American people to justify their rock n roll music...this is really offensive.

[ IT WAS NEVER CALLED DOMINICA KADANS UNTIL RECENTLY, (Cadence was on the album covers of grammacks and exile one. second, these bands featured cadence music (music and dance). 3) Haitian Webert Sicot introduced the name cadence as the first cadence band.4) cadence and compas are both the same meringue only differenciated by name for rivalry purpose THAT'S WHERE THE CONFUSION STARTED. CADENCE-LYPSO STARTED AS A MIX OF KADANS AND CALYPSO, BUT THE STYLE DEVELOPED MORE AS KADANS. see the irrelevance and contradictions? mix? the band featured separate calypso, some reggae and mostly cadence tunes.2) but the style developed more as a kadans? AS DOMINICAN BANDS STARTED INTRODUCING THE SYNTHESIZERS, A FULL-HRON SECTION INFLUENCED BY CALYPSO/FUNK, ROCK GUITARS, SOUL-STYLE VOCALS AND FUNKY BASSLINES....THIS IS WHEN THE COMPAS STARTED ITS MODERNIZATION TO ZOUK MUSIC. The introduction of new instrument doesn't make a new style; they proud themselves for introducing sinthesizer already in use in pop and rock bands? 2) The mini-jazz (Tabou combo, les Gypsies, etc) that preexisted these Dominican bands had already introduced funky basslines and rock guitars. In addition they think they were the only band in the Caribbean to use a horn section, which Haitian heavy meringue bands have used for years since the brass bands of the 1800s. IT'S TRUE THAT THE MUSIC MAITAINED THE CADENCE OR COMPAS BEAT See the inconsistency here? maintained the compas or cadence beat. this is exactly the basic features of a music style (EX. THE COWBELL AND TAMBORA DRUM, NOT SO MUCH THE CONGA. THE USE OF THE CYMBAL, WHICH ALSO PLAY THE SAME RHYTHM OF THE JING PING GWAJ. THIS RHYTHM IS ALSO FOUND IN THE "TIBWA" AND MARACAS/RATTLE-SCRAPER RHYTHMS PLAYED ON THE BELE, BIGUINE AND CHOUVAL BWA FROM THE FRENCH ANTILLES. ALL THIS BECAME PART OF THE STYLE THAT LATER EVOLVED INTO ZOUK, THOUGHT COMPAS LEFT THE BIGGEST INFLUENCE.See? there is a lack of music skills; they are talking with passion without a valid case. they are talking at the same time about the fast (faded away since the 80) zouk beton and the compas that they called zouk. See the confusion IT ALL STARTED WITH COMPAS, BUT THIS DOMINICA KADANS OR INFLUENCE COMING FROM DOMINICA AND THE FRENCH ANTILLES HAVE CHANGED COMPAS FROM THE MORE LATIN FEELING INTO A MORE COMMERCIAL GENRE OF MUSIC. See the irrelevance? because of that it is not compas anymore? COMPAS IS BEING PROMOTED OR SHOULD I SAY HAVE BEEN PROMOTED....ZOUK OR ZOUK LOVE ALWAYS BEEN A ROMANTIC GENRE SPEAKING ABOUT LOVE ISSUES, WHILE COMPAS WAS MORE UP TEMPO AND AGGRESSIVE. TODAY, COMPAS IS FOLLOWING THE SAME PATTERN AS ZOUK LOVE OR COMPAS LOVE. THAT'S WHERE THE CONFUSION STARTED. but zouk is danced the same way as compas; the same technic, rhythmic, instrumentation...you see now? This "editor" cannot make the difference between music style, genre, influence and innovation. ]Pintade (talk) 13:50, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

The amount of time you've been here isn't the point. I'd ask you to review this section about "ownership" of articles and to understand that I am concerned about what is verifiable, not what is 'true'. Whether or not you are right is not the point, it is whether other people can verify what you put there. For example, this comment (while the edit summary commentary is unnecessary) does provide a specific fact that someone else can independently verify. This is not my area of expertise nor particularly a large interest to me but I do want to have articles that are basically stable and that only occurs if everyone follows the same ground rules and that is to provide the basis for their beliefs. Thank you. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 22:27, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

November 2014

Welcome to Wikipedia. We welcome and appreciate your contributions, including your edits to Coladeira, but we cannot accept original research. Original research refers to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist; it also encompasses combining published sources in a way to imply something that none of them explicitly say. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. Thank you. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 02:11, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

== And according to you, these unreliable links that any neophyte can produce are objective data? The Caribbean music has yet to be written. Most of the data are testimonies from living musicians and other players. There are also books on Caribbean music. Gage Averill and Peter Manuel are two of them. I am in the process of completing a book on Caribbean music. I have provided some valuable information to Wikipedia until the publishing. By the way neither the kizomba, the coladeira nor the zouk articles has provided many sound references. I am committed to improving these articles from exagerations. The compas article is in term of sound data more reliable. By next year it will be greatly improved.

Finally Sir, As I mentioned it before, it is kind of offensive to put so much pressure on the compas article while leaving the door wide open for propaganda and unsubstantiated material in other articles. I don't think there is any biased however.Pintade (talk) 02:32, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

If the source is unreliable, then I ask that you discuss the source on the talk page in a calm and reasoning manner and if the concerns continue, you can bring it to the noticeboard and get wider community input. As to your own book, I'd suggest reviewing this guideline and until it is actually published, it is problematic for people to use it since it would be a violation of our outing policy for us to evaluate yourself as a source. As you yourself state, musicians are not the strong source as they are not experts and experts are betters but until there is a published book that can be verified by others, it is problematic. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 22:36, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

November 2014

Please do not add original research or novel syntheses of published material to articles as you apparently did to Coladeira. Please cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. Thank you. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 02:51, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to violate Wikipedia's no original research policy by adding your personal analysis or synthesis into articles, as you did at Compas, you may be blocked from editing. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 03:45, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

I know the game ok. I don't think you've understood the gravity of your actions? you're vandalizing an objective article with sound references and you have the audacity to warn me to stop correcting? So far all I am reading as reactions are exaggerations. You're having realistic expectations. Meringue-compas or cadence one the most notorious music not only of the Caribbean but in many parts of the world being under assault by a neophytes who have found some good encouragements. I will not waste my time en vain discussion because honestly you're a fanatic. Go ahead and vandalize the article; make cadence-lypso and zouk look a big deals I am watching for sounds references not those fabricated on any link but from scholars. Go ahead but remember I will prevail.Pintade (talk) 04:12, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

December 2014

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Compas. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 06:45, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Feedback

Dear Mendaliv I am very surprised of your warning. So my page has been vandalized and while I am in the process of rebuilding it all you have to do is send me warnings? I am sure of one thing Sir, whenever I delete baseless materials to replace them with sound and objective ones that are supported with reliable references I don't have to worry about biased comment. This compas page is committed to enlighten Wikipedia readers, not to suit people with an egotistic view. You probably haven't experienced the problem dealing with fanatics? what ever you say if it doesn't suit their agenda it is not relevant. I did try to engage into fair disputes and if you look at my many interventions you'll see for yourself. The problem is how to have a fair discussion with someone who doesn't fully comprehend the notion of music styles, genre, innovations and who instead is talking about fusion, addition of that instrument to the style to create another style even though the dance and main music is the same? I am sure you would not want to waste your time this way? Therefore fallowing the general policy to back your post with sound references is ok for me.

Thank youPintade (talk) 15:15, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Please do not attack other editors, as you did on Compas. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 18:10, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Pintade reported by User:Mendaliv (Result: ). Thank you. —/Mendaliv/^2¢/_Δ's/ 18:13, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Hello Pintade. Your edit summary here suggests you own the Compas article and the views of other people are unimportant. The edit summary: "Ritky...I know you're on a mission to destroy the compas article but you can't. Your actions are just baseless and vain; there are solid references baby...plenty; you delete this and it will comeback strongly to hunt you)". This fits under the definition of personal attacks or harassment. If you won't step back from these allegations it is possible that an admin will block your account. You seem to be attacking User:Ricky81682. It is better if you will show some humility and some willingness to cooperate. Even if you have some knowledge about this music it does not entitle you to strongarm other people. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 18:39, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi EdJohnston I am well aware of the Wikipedia personal attacks policy, thanks for the reminder. Now that you have seen the vandalism act of the editor --- deleting and transforming almost completely the compas article for no valid reasons. I have gone over it and backed it with sound references contrarily to the internet links offered by others ---what step would you take to correct his behavior? Are you calling his actions vandalism, harassment, sabotage?

Sir, I do show fairness by giving credit where it is due. I often help improve other articles, however, if I take the time to research and added materials why should they be deleted for baseless reason? I always welcome substantiated materials. I am committed to improving the articles to enlighten Wikipedia's readers. If scholars and discographies prove a fact why should it be replaced with internet links that can be produced by any body?

Finally, I don't own the page (Wikipedia property) but its guardian RegardsPintade (talk) 20:19, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

Pintade, can you explain what you meant by "you delete this and it will comeback strongly to hurt you". Did you intend that to be a threat? Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 22:55, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

EdJohnston:

you delete this and it will comeback strongly to HUNT (not hurt/ in term of having to see the same thing over and over...like his nightmarePintade (talk) 03:50, 3 December 2014 (UTC)) you". Did you intend that to be a threat?

My answer is no Sir. As you can see I often have some fun teasing an obstinate editor; calling him neophyte, inept, egotistic mind, etc. but that's all. Don't you think that this matter has been taken way out of proportion? I don't even know anything about this gentleman. after all why should I be stressed out by the actions of an editor? Sometimes it annoying having to rebuild vandalized pages but I have been contributing to Wikipedia for some good years. I always reach a compromise at the end. I know the behavior of all zouk or cadence lypso contributors. Once again Sir there is no threat here but fun.

RegardsPintade (talk) 03:45, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

A complaint has been filed about you at WP:AN3. Though you haven't broken WP:3RR you *have* engaged in personal attacks. You refer to others' good-faith edits as vandalism. If you intend to use the word 'hunt' and 'nightmare' that sounds like a promise to keep reverting the article until others leave your version in place. If you are declaring your intention to edit war, that can be enough reason to block your account. EdJohnston (talk) 05:00, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Dear EdJohnston

I hope you have also sent a similar note to the editor that disrupted the compas and cadence pages? Otherwise your note would be very offensive to me in a sense that it blames the victim. Also it shows an intention to encourage the editor to continue his vandalism, which is a double standard.

Let me tell you about your "good faith editPintade (talk) 15:51, 3 December 2014 (UTC)": In the cadence rampa section the name of its originator Webert Sicot was deliberately deleted; now tell me for what valid reason? the influence of compas in Cabo verde...deleted, why? the mini-jazz..deleted why? Therefore I suggest that you respect my person. After all I am helping improving the Wikipedia site as a probono service and while I respect your policies I don't expect some biased reactions.

In case the same note was sent to the other editor please disregard this note. RegardsPintade (talk) 15:49, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Warned for edit warring and personal attacks at Compas

Please see the result of Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Pintade reported by User:Mendaliv (Result: Protected). If you continue to describe your content opponents as incompetent or ignorant and describe their changes as vandalism, you may be blocked without further notice. Your safest option is to propose changes on article talk pages and wait for others to agree with you. And try to be civil while doing so. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 17:21, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

EdJohnston

I would like to know who you think you are talking to? I found your interest on this matter very personal. You want to eliminate me so people could add inconsistencies on the page? You asked the question on whether this was a threat or not, I answered no. Still you would not let it go. why? You're talking to me with disdain as if you were a big CEO and I your subaltern. Relax and don't hide.Pintade (talk) 21:35, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm an administrator trying to be sure that the site policies are followed. You don't seem to fully grasp the situation, and I don't know if we have not been speaking clearly or if you haven't yet given the matter your full attention. Your failing to understand our policies could work against your interest in having a positive impact on Wikipedia. You do have some content knowledge but seem unable to work smoothly with others on a topic where you view yourself as being the only person worth listening to. If you believe you are not being fairly treated here you can ask for review at WP:ANI. Since your behavior just received some sharp criticism there by several editors I doubt you would be successful. EdJohnston (talk) 05:29, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Look, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I don't doubt you know this stuff very well. However I advise you to review and see general points 2 and 4 of this essay and you'll see my concerns. There is no way to vet actual expertise and when it's two editors each claiming to be correct, without third-party evidence, it's presumed to be two basically similar editors arguing. Also you may want to consider archive this page. You don't have to keep the arguments with that anonymous user here if you don't want. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 11:09, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

I read general points 2 and 4 and understood the difficulties associated with convincing you to be a little more critical and flexible. General points 2 and 4 are the guidelines. ok. RegardsPintade (talk) 17:52, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Critical in what way? Critical of the other editors because you're certain you're right without any actual evidence of that than you claiming on the internet that you're right? I'm trying to be flexible and frankly fair, between you and the other editor, by asking the same of both of you. Provide a source (any source) and I'll drop it. Even just acknowledge that there's no sources and I'll leave it be. These arguments are frustrating: you don't provide any sources, refuse to go beyond "Because I said so" with me and then when challenged start arguing that I need to read whoever you think is the authority when all I'm asking you to do is tell me the authority. You either know it and don't want to put it out there or you don't and want to play the "Because I said so" routine. Again, the source says "The meringue-apparently a close relative, if not a descendant of the carabineer-had emerged as Haiti's predominant secular dance...the carabineer, which in both salon and rustic folk forms, acquired the status of a national dance in the early 1800" so it is saying that the carabineer which is either a relative or an ancestor started in the early 1800s. It says nothing about the meringue other than one of two possible relations. How does that mean that the carabinner's possible descendent started at that same time? But fine, if you don't agree, then I'll ask for other views on the matter. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:46, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

CRITICAL: Ricky81682 I read and understood general points 2 and 4, which are used as guidelines. Ricky81682 don't take things this way. All I meant was that in certain circumstances you could have deduced who is not relevant with a simple CD or album review over time. (but you mostly prefer references) A good example: Since the 50s - 60s meringue-compas or cadence has been adopted as the main music of Guadeloupe and Martinique. To hear that cadence was not compas...or cadence-lypso was a FUSION of cadence and calypso, two styles with different rhythmics? most of the bands' tunes are cadence or compas and the dance is the same... Zouk beton (an attempt to replace compas) faded away since the 80s. to hear compas be called zouk love after 30 years while it's still danced and played like compas....You can see a refusal on the part of these too proud people to unit and acknowledge one music. A CD review easily shows the strong similarity between these so-called FUSION, MERGER AND ADDITION OF TIBWA, etc. This may not be strange to you however, it makes me laugh... RegardsPintade (talk) 16:02, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

I don't 'prefer' references. I just follow the guidelines here which is not to use my personal opinion in the same way I don't agree with your personal opinion nor anyone else's. Fighting opinions never accomplishes much in terms of getting a stable, good article and music genre articles are some of the worst infighting I've ever seen. Go look over something like Heavy metal subgenres and see how many disputes can be 'deduced' with a simple review of the music. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:16, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 13

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Caribbean music vandal case page

You have tangled for years with a guy who makes thousands of changes to Caribbean music articles. Please refer to the case page Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Caribbean music vandal when dealing with this person in the future. By doing so, you will have strong leverage to remove his disruptive contributions entirely. Any edits made by a blocked editor may be reverted on sight.

If you have any observations to add to that case page, feel free to do so. Binksternet (talk) 20:12, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

My feedback Hi Binksternet. I am considering the reinstatement of the full compas article, however, I haven't fully understood the procedure. Could you help? RegardsPintade (talk) 11:47, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

=Another year

I made the decision to quit Wikipedia because of a lack of consideration for contributors who have spent time on research to help enlighten readers. While accuracy is my concern, anybody with an IP # can come an erase your work even though it's well supported by scholars. I worked hard with others to build the compas article but what happened to it? a few IP # have during last year been engaged into an unfounded war editing and that was enough for Wikipedia to suppress the article. Now I would like to know about its status mostly when most of the IP # who were fighting it were sanctioned. Do I get the full article reinstated? thank youPintade (talk) 12:03, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

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Let's discuss the compas-zouk debate.

Greetings Pintade,

As I explore Caribbean music articles, I come time and again on the claim that "zouk is the French Antilles compas". WHAT IS IT THEN? A STYLE THAT IS DANCED AND PLAYED LIKE COMPAS? Am I right in believing this phrasing is yours? What concerns me is that this "zouk is just compas by another name" agenda seems pervasive in the relevant articles, (CASSAV GOES EVERYWHERE FEATURING COMPAS AND ASSUMING IN INTERVIEWS THAT IT HAS CREATEd A NEW STYLE?) usually with very little support. On the compas page, for instance, the citation in the zouk section was Peter Manuel's "Popular Musics of the Non-Western Worlds". Just that, no page numbers, and this citation is presumably supposed to support the entire paragraph. Now, as you've seen me say before on the zouk talk page, I think you are inadvertently misinterpreting Manuel. (NO SIR! PETER MANUEL WHO KNOWS VERY WELL CARIBBEAN MUSIC AND THE IMPACTS OF HAITIAN MUSIC ON THE FRENCH ANTILLEANs STATED THAT ZOUK HAS BECOME UNDISTINGUISHABLE FROM COMPAS. SO WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT TO HEAR? THEY ARE THE SAME; (THERE IS NO PAGE NUMBER? WHAT ABOUT PAGE 74? In the sections of his book that you refer to, he's often saying something similar to what you end up putting in the articles, but the result is often different enough that one has to conclude that Manuel has been distorted. For instance, you cite him in your claims that "zouk is the French Antilles compas", something he never actually says. (IF ZOUK HAS BECOME INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM COMPAS WHAT DOES THAT MEANS TO YOU? He says that certain types of zouk have become almost indistinguishable from compas, I admit, but that's not the same as saying they're the same thing, or that there is no zouk, just French Antillean compas. ( MANY TYPES OF ZOUK? WHO CREATED THEM AND WHEN?

Look, rather than trying to edit all of this out on the relevant pages, and have you revert me, and risk an edit war, I was wondering if we could discuss the matter here. My question is, to what extent do you think this notion that "zouk is compas" is your personal opinion? Because in your sources that I've seen thus far, they never say that that's the case. If you are reading Manuel and using his information to draw your own conclusions, that's original research or synthesis of sources, both of which are frowned upon on Wikipedia. See WP:OR and WP:SYNTH.

FROWNED UPON? THE REALITY MAY BE HARD TO ACCEPT FOR THOSE WHO HAVE INVESTED SO MUCH ON PROPAGANDA. I HAVE SEEN MANY REVERSES AND I HAVE TRIED TO BE OBJECTIVE AND RELEVANT SIR. THEREFORE IT IS NOT ABOUT MY EMOTION BUT ABOUT SOME SCHOLARS WHO HAVE RESEARCHED ON THE MATTER. YOU CAN ALSO READ GAGE AVERIL A DAY FOR THE HUNTER A DAY FOR THE PREY, I DON'T USE REFERENCES FROM ANONYMOUS OR SHADY WEBSITES OR LINKS.

What I'd really like is for you to show me a reliable source that states explicitly that there is no zouk, but that it's just the French Antillean compas ( WHO FEATURE JACOB'S FAST CARNIVAL ZOUK BETON TODAY? I GUESS THAT WAS THE ONLY ZOUK? IN ADDITION JOCELY BEROARD OFTEN STATED IN "ALL MUSIC GUIDE OF THE 90S" THAT ZOUK IS A CADENCE, A STYLE OF MUSIC THAT HAIIANS NO LONGER PLAYED. HOWEVER, CADENCE AND COMPAS ARE THE SAME MODERN HAITIAN MERINGUE.

And that, furthermore, French Antillean artists are deliberately hushing the matter up as part of some conspiracy to "stay in the game". Because these are claims you've made on various relevant articles. Please show me the evidence, and I'll be happy to let these edits of yours stand. THESE ARE NO CLAIMS SIR BUT PROVEN FACTS. AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE A NEW STYLE (THE FAST CARNIVAL JUMP UP BEAT) FADED AWAY IN THE 80S AND YOU CONTINUE TO PLAY AND DANCE THE MI-TEMPO COMPAS AND CALL IT ZOUK? THERE IS NO EMOTION IN MUSIC; EITHER YOU CAN CREATE A PROPER STYLE OR YOU ADOPT ONE AND IN THIS CASE THE COMPAS. ENGLISH MUSICIANS HAVE NO PROBLEM PLAYING ROCK N ROLL EVEN WHEN THEY HAVE GREAT BANDS LIKE THE BEATLES AND OTHERS. THE SOUTH AMERICA HAS ADOPTED SALSA; HOWEVER, CASSAV, WHICH MUSIC REPERTOIRE IS 90% COMPAS, HAS PROMOTED COMPAS AS ZOUK IN AFRICA, CABO VERDE, PORTUGAL, BRASIL AND OTHER PLACES, CREATING CONFUSION. REVIEW CDs. YOU CAN READ COLADEIRA FROM THE SAME PETER MANUEL BOOK. WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT FRENCH CARIBBEAN MUSIC GUESS WHICH MUSIC WAS STRONG? COMPAS OR CADENCE. THERE WAS NOT EVEN THE WORD ZOUK.

Best wishes, Tigercompanion25 (talk) 22:50, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Dear Tigercompanion25

I am responding to your invitation only as a courtesy because I am certain that you honestly know everything on the subject already. I will be brief and direct with some references and questions to yourself.

As you know, prior to the touring of meringue compas or cadence bands the French Antilleans were featuring everything including mazouka, ti bwa, cadrille, beguine, etc. Haitian musicians, the Sicot brothers specifically introduced them to cadence or compas that since has become the main music there. Consequently Haitian Louis Lahens "Les gais troubadours and others inspired the first local band of the genre "Ensemble Abrico". Do I need to continue?

Antilleans have never been too happy with the idea of foreign musicians dominating their space therefore in addition to some boycotts many unsuccessful attempts were made to create a local music and zouk has been the latest one. In fact what is zouk? the name was coined by Haitian musicians touring the Islands during the 80s. (See reference) but it is strange that suddenly sprung up a definition tracing it origination from the Marzouk. What is zouk musically? Complete confusion; more than twelve defintions. (you want examples?) A model of zouk: Jacob assumed having created a new music style when he was in Haiti. What music? a Haitian koudiay. "zouk la c sel medikaman nou li" How many of the same style? none. Another music "siye bwa" too fast. That was the zouk? so why nobody kept on playing it? it is dead now since the 80s. In fact this short experiment constitutes only a small portion of the band repertoire. Am I right?

Meanwhile French Antillean musicians who have never stopped playing the meringue came up with "zouk and love" that later became zouk love; and who was these musicians? Eric virgal a compas artist and others. How zouk is danced? same as compas. is the rhythmic different? no. what about the instruments? same. What is the most distinguishable feature? the team up "conga-cowbell-drum"

RegardsPintade (talk) 03:21, 26 August 2015 (UTC) Pintade (talk) 15:57, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

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Hi Pintade, I know of your interests in Compas music and related music genres, and this invite is long overdue, but I'd still like to extend the invite to a completely revamped WikiProject Haiti. Cheers! Savvyjack23 (talk) 07:20, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

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July 2020

Hello, I'm Jerodlycett. I noticed that you recently removed content from Zouk without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. Jerod Lycett (talk) 03:52, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

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Hi Jerodlycett! thank for contacting me. guess you know how Wikipedia is concerned about the quality of the articles. I assume you know about Caribbean music. I guess you also read Scholar such as Gage Averill, Peter Manuel and others who have extensively written about Caribbean music. As the zouk definition states it, it is danced and played exactly like compas because these French Islands have been compas lands since the 50s. In the 80s, kassav popularized a fast carnival tempo beat called zouk beton in which the MIDI technology was fully used. this fast beat was not danceable and quickly faded away in the same 80s. As usual the French Antilleans of Martinique and Guadeloupe would keep on dancing compas. Strangely and out of all ethics, they starting calling their compas zouk. this is why scholars Peter Manuel stated that zouk has become undistinguishable with compas.

The question is why a borrowed style can be renamed and again, have so many styles? it is problematic. Such a passion. The facts are out there in books. I provided them with references, explanations but...see the result. PASSION. Even the member of the kassav group haven't been able to clearly define the music they're playing. Finally, if you want I invite you to take a look at the compas and zouk pages. You'll have an idea of the many attempts to vandalize them every time an editor without knowledge intervenes. This has been going on for years and Wikipedia always acknowledge our objectivity.

Think about this? a derivative style, with so many sub-genres? Finally who feature them? how do they dance them? what are the basic features? kassav only popularized the fast carnival zouk beton; So if it's so easy to create a new music style why not mixing salsa, rock n roll and others? why sticking to compas?

Regards

July 2020

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Zouk. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively, you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continued disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. At this point you are being disruptive with your editing, use the talk page. Jerod Lycett (talk) 06:06, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

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---refrain from making UNCONSTRUCTIVE edit to Wikipedia, as you did at zouk...your edits appear to be disruptive...REALLY? what about the damages to my articles? So who is monitoring the contents of the articles? who is checking for consistency? does it mean that anybody can write anything?

Thank you

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Thank you for contacting me. However, why you attacking me as if I were at fault when it is clear that we are dealing with vandalisms. How many times wikipedia should arbitrate these pages over and over mostly when some of the edits are baseless?

I am a contributor working for years to improve articles but it is annoying to be engaged in a fight periodically over the same reasons. There should be some protective measures. Have you read the complaining side latest edits? They are so unfounded that wikipedia is asking for references. So, some reaction are obvious mostly when they are time wasting. Some people are so passionate that they do not need to research and less pay attention to your feedback. It is my objectivity against their subjectivity.

Thank you

Pintade

Hi User:Jerod Lycett I do not really understand this sudden focus and pressure on the compas music article? what is really the problem? Remember, we are working on a voluntary basis for wikipedia. We are busy in real life. should I call for a conference? Thank youPintade (talk) 15:05, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

This would have been better to create a new section for this topic. I'm not sure what you mean by call a conference. I had assumed that you had learned proper editing from the Adventure and took some time to mark out the problem sections and attempted to cleanup what I could find wrong with it so that you could expand from a good start, and know what the problems were that needed fixed. Jerod Lycett (talk) 16:21, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

I am under the impression that the compas page has been the target of many who are not happy with its objectivity? I assume that any body engaged in editing this article is driven by at least one of these motivations:

1 Accuracy 2) vandalism) 3) competition between countries or regions to lessen ones importance for validity.

There are many things at stake. Therefore it takes a lots of thoughts and skills as you know to secure and a page. I have been asked to provide information for basic, obvious and well known facts. For instance, artists like Wycleff and French Caribbean kassav do not need a detailed listing of their records. Wycleff is Haitian born then features compas. kassav from the compas lands of Martinique and Guadeloupe have automatically featured compas music, etc. There is, until I create a more detailed explanation, a listing of CDs. it's a lot of work coming with the cds and detailed the years, production, style, etc. Remember, editing is not limited to only the concern of accuracy; behind each editing there are motives. In other to remain neutral you have, as you know, stick closer to the truth and sometimes the truth is not well seen. This is why vandalism occurred.Pintade (talk) 17:35, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

You are still having some issues with threading. Also, you want to state the WP:OBVIOUS in articles. Further, yes, you do need a WP:RS for any claim, there's a rule against WP:OR. If an artist isn't primarily known for the compas style, as shown and cited in their articles, then you will need to have a reference to somewhere to verify that the song or record is actually in the compas style. If the truth is not well seen, then it's something that needs more citations to make it verifiable. Jerod Lycett (talk) 18:16, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

User:Jerodlycett I would like to ask a question but do not want you to take it out proportion. With all due respect, are you knowledgeable about Caribbean music? if yes why you stand against all basic realities? asking questions and references for any known things just to prevent changes in the article. It's all out there. What wrong with compas being the music of many places when you have accepted the fact that cadence was introduced early in there and has several deravatives such as cadence lypso, zouk, etc....they are danced and played the same way, and you know that.. So far someone came and put exaggeration on all types of zouk and your reaction? Thank you Pintade (talk) 18:00, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

I don't need to be knowledgeable about Caribbean music, and being so could be detrimental since everything needs to be verifiable. You keep trying to add statements that zouk is compas, according to the experts on the matter, they are not. One such reference is already given on compas: Manuel, Peter Lamarche (1988). "Latin America and the Caribbean". Popular Musics of the Non-Western World: An Introductory Survey. Oxford University Press. p. 74. ISBN 0195063341. OCLC 876495455. Retrieved 2020-07-13.

However, you do need WP:COMPETENCE to edit Wikipedia. Jerod Lycett (talk) 18:16, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

User:Jerodlycett I will as usual add solid references to constantly improve the article. However, as for your personal immersion in the zouk, I am sure --- in spite of your obligations to maintain rigor on the pages --- that you are thinking about your personal interpretation of the experts. It is obvious that too indistinguishable items are same. You think the author used a nice diplomatic way to say it? it is obvious to everybody. Same in Maths. 2 quantities equated to a same third are equal among themselves. RegardsPintade (talk) 04:16, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

User: Jerodlycett Thank you for your replies. You can be assured of my neutrality that can only come with knowledge. For a while I thought of you as gate keeper for the zouk. Mostly for your quick edits, complete reverse, and personal set of raisons given to quickly delete my information. I would not engage in confrontation with you as an editor. These pages have gone through many arbitrations and each time my information has proven to be accurate. I

can see how your great competence has made it possible for the zouk page to keep its exaggerations with all types of zouk styles. I guess this is the kind of COMPETENCE you mentioned. If only you could only understand.

briefly: When any credible writer talk about zouk, initially it's about the fast zouk beton popularized by kassav. French Antilleans have been trying to eradicate or at least lessen the compas influence at home. unfortunately the fast carnival zouk beton was not danceable it faded away in the same 80s. Now the problem is the renaming of compas. They still play and dance compas under the zouk name. Now when they go to Africa they don't mention compas but zouk. See the confusion? My goal in this page is to make the difference these two styles without propaganda nor confusion. All the cds covers are labelled zouk. I have nothing personal against any type of music style. I am here to enlighten readers. At the end of the day, I have enough personal activities to keep me busy without the need to stress myself over vandalism. Thank youPintade (talk) 01:59, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

If what you're saying is true then the proper solution would be to merge the two articles under the name zouk with a short section in it explaining what compas is, while keeping most of the article focused on zouk. However, you'd first need to be able to show the sources that show that zouk gets called compas as a WP:COMMONNAME. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jerodlycett (talk • contribs) 02:52, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

User:Jerodlycett I have a better idea. What about lobbying at wikipedia? Pintade (talk) 14:23, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

I have no clue what you mean, but I have made the policies here abundantly clear. It's up to you to edit properly. Jerod Lycett (talk) 20:35, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

User:Jerodlycett

Threading on talk pages

Please use proper threading on talk pages, I have had to revert the edit you did to my page due to the damage to the structure. Please also learn to sign on talk pages. Two things if you're actually interested in contributing constructively: first is our policy of No original research. The edits you made were wholly uncited. Second you called it your page. You absolutely do not WP:OWN it. You need to read the edit summaries given too. Jerod Lycett (talk) 16:51, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Could you tell me when I should resume editing?

Thank you

1. I suggest you take the WP:ADVENTURE to learn proper editing.
2. WP:THREAD shows how to thread on a talk page. I have indented your reply here to show you how.
3. Generally when you're replying to someone and it's not on their talk page you use {{Reply to}} as it gives them a WP:NOTIFICATION. However, it does only work when you WP:SIGN your message, which you should always be doing.

The = is used to create a WP:HEAD, spamming a line of it as you have breaks things severely, and learning to use headers properly, including nesting, is part of things. Ultimately, you may continue editing whenever you want, but if you continue to be disruptive you very well could be banned for it. Jerod Lycett (talk) 20:41, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi user:Jerodlycett, I would like to thank for your helpful and interesting advisesPintade (talk) 21:26, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

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Hi user:jerodlycett, I would like to thank you for your kind advise. it was interesting and helpful Pintade (talk) 21:21, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

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July 2020

Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to remove maintenance templates without resolving the problem that the template refers to, as you did at Compas, you may be blocked from editing. Jerod Lycett (talk) 23:14, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

USer:Jerodlycett actually, the template removal was an experiment since--- maybe I misread that-- it could be corrected manuallyPintade (talk) 16:43, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

You should remove maintenance templates if, and only if, you have fixed the problem it is pointing out. Jerod Lycett (talk) 23:02, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

User:Jerodlycett Thank youPintade (talk) 13:44, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

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