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Question about voting comments

You expressed that you felt my answer to the science question was a bit weak. Would you tell me what you found lacking in the answer? Would you tell me what you found more positive about the answer? I appreciate your support and I want to make sure I understand your reservations. Thanks! Vassyana (talk) 05:54, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Your answer is very weak and hard to understand. In fact, with most science articles the Science = NPOV. (Science itself has no POV, it's a methodology to determine what makes the natural world run, in very simplistic terms.) Please look at Risker's answer to the same question. Very clearly understood, and her answers are backed up by her contributions. I'm scared that you will be part of the FT2 anti-science group in Arbcom. But there are candidates I despise more, so you get my vote. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:19, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for responding. I agree with your statement that with most science articles Science = NPOV. In fact, I would go much broader and say with the vast majority of academic subjects that the established scholarly view(s) = NPOV. My main experience and expertise is in "softer" fields, but the principle remains the same. My answer was an attempt, obviously flawed, to answer the question heavily focused on the underlying policy and related principles. Let me attempt to restate it. NPOV says we present topics as they appear in reliable sources, especially as it relates to proper weighting. With science topics, the overwhelming majority of sources will be reputable scientific literature in (by far) most cases. Thus, my agreement with your statement. Does that help clarify where I stand? Do you have any remaining questions or concerns? Vassyana (talk) 04:02, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate this answer. I'm going to revise my vote (I was support, but revise my comments). OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I am glad that I could clear up my answer a bit. If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to drop me a message. Vassyana (talk) 12:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Arb vote response

I've posted two responses to your concerns on my vote page, under oppose 67, SLR's vote. I've also paste them to my questions page. Let me know if you have more concerns. — Rlevse • Talk • 15:58, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

You have the anti-science interpretation of NPOV. In fact, I'm rather shocked that someone at your level has such a poor understanding of NPOV. Your responses solidify my opinion that you will be no different than FT2 in being one of the strong anti-science votes on ArbCom. This is sad. You use words like "mainstream science" which is the anti-science codeword to make it sound like a bunch of closed minds decided that snake oils don't work. And to cover up your obvious anti-science attitude, you pick easy to defend attitudes like flat-earth. That's an easy one. What about acupuncture? Anyways, your anti-science attitude is clear. And that's why many anti-science editors are supporting you. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:12, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I haven't read the specific question/answer involved, but I have noticed that a lot of candidates have unintentionally ended up saying the wrong thing - i.e. that NPOV is the concern, and that there can somehow be a conflict between NPOV and science (as opposed to the scientific consensus is NPOV, and the problem is limiting the presence of claims in contradiction). I think what's happening is that these people aren't really fluent with the problems in this area, and haven't spent much time thinking about the issue. It seems unlikely that they're all actually anti-science. Avruch ^T 15:30, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm still surprised at how experienced editors confuse this issue. It's one of the major problems with Wikipedia is inexperienced, or worse yet, POV-pushing, admins don't understand NPOV. How can we trust an Arbcom member who either intentionally confuses NPOV or is just plain confused. Disappointing, but he can join FT2 in the anti-science wing of Arbcom. Maybe they can have a group hug. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

"Anti science" is best compared to a reckless driver being "anti safe driving". It may not be intentional (some reckless drivers just like to go fast), but it has an effect that's counter-productive with Science. One of those "road to hell being paved with good intentions" situations. Badger Drink (talk) 18:13, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

That infamous Mr. Marlin and his ribald case

Hiya OM. Hope you didn't mind my making an example out of you. I'm interested in making sure that candidates have the ability to criticize ArbCom (part of what repulsed me the most about "your" case was how it took days to get anybody on the committee to say anything even remotely veering in the general direction of "mea culpa") - and if they can't manage to find something wrong with "your" case, then odds are they're not really thinking. From what I noticed, all the candidates who answered the question had the same basic response - what's much more telling is looking at which candidates "forgot" to answer that particular question. Badger Drink (talk) 18:05, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I actually appreciated your questions. It would not, of course, have been appropriate for me to ask them. I haven't changed any votes because of what I read, but I would have. I noticed who failed to answer, one of whom, Jayvdb, actually came on this page and made some specious claim about BLP because I posted a very uncivil and libelous email from Elonka. I don't appreciate admins or editors who think they're smarter than everyone else, who support Elonka on anything, and who do not answer questions from editors because it's beneath them. I hope he loses. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:15, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Resource

For some reason, I was moved to google hallmark of pseudoscience and came across this and this that may be useful at some time.LeadSongDog (talk) 00:38, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

sorry

Maybe this will help, but there is a good chance it wont. Either way, I am sorry. Feel free to revert; I know I'm not particularly welcome in this neck of the woods. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 15:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

you bring a tear to my wikieyes

Do I really write english so badly? [1] T.T Anyways, I made a post on the talk page bitching about wholesome reversions, and about how incomplete the history section is and how I intend to improve it. --Enric Naval (talk) 21:55, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Global warming, my ass

Stuck in a creepy little farm town in a cheap motel because the interstate is closed because of snow. Now that might be fine in Minnesota or Montana, but not in Southern California. (OK, the mountain pass that I have to cross to get into Los Angeles is over 1,650 metres (5,410 ft), but we're at a rather southerly latitude). I'm just whining.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 07:12, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Be thankful. Such challenges build character. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 07:44, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Character can be further improved by taking off ones shoes and walking to the next Taco Belle. Don't take money the first time, that's cheating! --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:59, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it's Taco Bell. Come to think of it, OM might prefer a Taco Belle... Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 08:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. Sorry about the typo. But since OM is part of the Jewish atheist liberal science cabal, isn't he by definition gay? Is there something like a Taco Bello? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 08:29, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I walked barefoot, uphill, in 15 inches of snow to get my favorite pastrami on rye sandwich in Syracuse, and the owner wasn't gay or Jewish. I believe he was Greek, but that's neither here nor there. And what this has to do with freaking snow in Southern California and bad Mexican food is beyond me. And Harvey Milk rules! (Adding in the gay, Jewish reference randomly). OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 09:04, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Its sunny and quite warm here, if that helps William M. Connolley (talk) 12:02, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Can I have global warming in the winter and global cooling during the summer? The gas and electric bills are much nicer that way. --B (talk) 12:12, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Of course, if we had that, then we would be burning fossil fuels, and we would solve the world's problems overnight. And I can't believe WMC watches my comments. LOL. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:53, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

"Taco Bello"? Is that a Mexican food-fight? And it ain't sufficient to be part of a cabal any more -- to get real respect they gotta believe you must be an entire cabal, 'cause your so big and bad (and gay?). Hrafn^Talk_Stalk 12:28, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Your dilemma reminds me of the night of Friday, 31 January 1986: Hell has officially frozen over at -35C, and I'm on a five hour gotta-get-there drive in a beat-up VW Rabbit with a flaky carburetor. A sudden mysterious grinding noise and next thing I'm hiking (backwards, upwind) the last mile into nowheresville. Each step in the snow squeaks loudly enough to hear over the wind. I find myself a motel with attached chinese restaurant, where the locals are having a brew or twelve and recounting Letterman's Christa McAuliffe jokes after Tuesday's Challenger disaster. Not encouraged by this, I get a cabin. They turn on the heater and the naked light bulb. I crawl into bed (between sheets so shiny-starched I'm expecting them to snap) and shiver until sleep finally comes. Next day it is slightly warmer, but the garage in town isn't open on weekends, so I wind up finding my way to the Greyhound bus stop/general store/diner, where after endless "coffee" I get a 4pm back to my point of origin. Monday, I phone the garage who pick up the keys I left with the motel clerk and tow the car in for repair. They inform me Tuesday that there's nothing wrong with it, I can come get my car the next weekend! Feel better now? LeadSongDog (talk) 15:04, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Did you do this to see a girl? Just asking. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

No, a sick parent. You?LeadSongDog (talk) 20:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Business trip. Beautiful snow in the Sierra's however. I did get stuck in a snowstorm once going to meet my girlfriend. We got stuck in my car somewhere in NJ, and had to spend the night in my car at a Turnpike rest area. It wasn't as romantic as it sounds. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:28, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah, NJ, where the snow sometimes lasts till morning:/) BTW, I see that your !case has come up again in discussion.LeadSongDog (talk) 20:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, when the wife and I were young and foolish (as opposed to middle-aged and foolish) we had to stay in the car too. We drove to Yellowstone on a whim one weekend. Not realizing that if you want a room, you have to reserve months in advance. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 20:50, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I try to avoid calderas of active supervolcanoes for vacations. I'm just a wimp about those things.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:48, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

← To go back to Harvey Milk for a moment, I recently saw Milk at the Castro Theatre - quite the scene. I thought the movie was well-done, especially for a biopic. A lot of the film focuses on the battle over Proposition 6. I suppose the timing, with the movie coming out shortly after Proposition 8, was coincidental, but the resonance was pretty powerful. MastCell ^Talk 21:47, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

A local reviewer on radio here also called it a biopic, but said it as if to rhyme with myopic. Fortunately I wasn't sipping my coffee at the time.LeadSongDog (talk) 22:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I saw the movie in LA, and it was quite moving. I was wondering if the story here in California regarding Prop 8 would have been different if he were leading the charge? Did anyone notice that Ronald Reagan, the icon of Conservative Republicans actually opposed Prop 6? Of all the things in the movie, that was minor. And of course, Sean Penn, in a few scenes, looked exactly like Milk. It was a wonderful movie. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Well I have the f**king flu in f**king December (i.e. summer), we had a real cold snap for much of november and now, we have had blankets on the beds and it is late spring/summer in Sydney. Still I remedied this with plenty of alcohol at the WP meetup last night with lots of "hail arb" comments. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:52, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

You did get a flu shot, right? Or were you worried about the thiomersal? :P MastCell ^Talk 23:01, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

They don't get flu shots down in Oz. They just drink a couple of Fosters and move on. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:11, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

We-ell, it ain't a truly bad one as q4-6h paracetamol 500mg + codeine 10mg (x2) scotches the moderate arthralgia and runny nose very nicely, so I s'pose it were wone of the parablahblah flue thingumy viruses, just got a whooping coff jab as there is an alert for that in NSW (groan). Anyway, I picked up a crate of 16 mangos for $20 last week and I am merrily watching those lovable rascals in The Sheild so all is good :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:29, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

And did you throw some shrimp on the barbie? LOL. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:39, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Oho, between the last post and this I was bequeathed a bottle of Cabernet Sauvignon though, happy Xmas..... :) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:44, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

OK, but please tell me you're not drinking and taking q4-6h paracetamol? Or if you are, at least take an N-acetylcysteine chaser. MastCell ^Talk 00:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

What was it you once said? "The effect may be enhanced by alcohol" is not a recommendation? LOL. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:25, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh gosh, I wondered why I had turned all yellow today. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:19, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of the original subject, has anyone seen this today off of Drudge? CNN meteorologist Chad Myers called manmade global warming arrogant. (I'm just throwing it out there for no particular reason - don't infer by this that I agree with him - I don't - I believe in global warming - I just question the doom and gloom self-serving predictions - on both sides.)--B (talk) 04:19, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, Drudge probably doesn't qualify as a reliable source. And if the CNN meteorologist actually did say that, I'd say it's opinion. But my opinion about global warming (I am mostly convinced the earth has warmed), but from a scientific standpoint, I think the evidence is equivocal whether this is anything but a natural event. I'm old enough to have lived through vast sea changes of science over the past years. When I took a Paleontology course in college, no one understood what caused extinction events. Now, we have a pretty good idea. I can't even give you a list of medical theories that have "evolved" since first learning it. Scientific understanding evolves over time through experimentation, analysis and discussion. What concerns me about the global warming scientists is that they stifle dissent. In other words, to be a good scientist you have to buy the Greenpeace POV hook line and sinker. Well, I don't. The global warming denialists (which I might be) are lumped together with creationists and alternative medicine faith healers. I think 10 years from now, we're going to have a whole different understanding of global weather changes. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:48, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

It must drive Greenpeace bonkers that people are building nuke plants to save the planet. Just saying...LeadSongDog (talk) 05:26, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Yesterday Jim Hansen gave a talk here at AGU where he said fourth-generation nuclear should be part of the mix. He admitted that environmental groups wouldn't like to hear him say so. Apparently it's possible to reprocess the fuel so as to burn much more of it and end up with a much smaller amount of waste that has a much shorter half life. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 06:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

So how does Richard Alley rank amongst global warming types? I see him on History Channel and Discovery Channel shows about geological evidence of climate changes. He reminds me of my science professors when I was young...bright, enthusiastic, a bit flaky, and very interesting. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 07:44, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Alley is a top-flight guy, one of the big names in ice cores and such. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 19:08, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

You see the latest review of the energy sources?[2] Jacobsen placed nuclear second to last, just ahead of carbon capture and storage and then biofuels (including cellulosic). He put them so low because there's a high carbon emissions opportunity cost compared to the top-ranked sources (what do you use while spending 10-20 years building them?). He also put in a somewhat sketchy estimation of the effects of increased nuclear proliferation leading to increased nuclear detonation. Nuclear power is cool, but financially it's not great because the start-up costs are so high that it takes 30 years to make a profit -- which a private investor is not going to like, especially given the uncertainty these days. Hard to justify spending government funds on them when there's much quicker bangs for the buck. Given the deregulation of energy in the US, it is unlikely that we'll see much nuclear. As far as the scientific opinion on climate change, it's pretty overwhelming. Certainly faith healing is more ridiculous than climate change denial, but looking at the scientific literature, it'd be hard to conclude that -- even the petroleum geologists admit anthropogenic global warming. In comparison, the NRC's 2006 report on AltMed was glowing (see assessment of evidence). PubMed won't even index the Quackwatchish Scientific Review of Alternative Medicine, but it indexes the Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine, one of the more extreme AltMed journals. A while back I started hunting around to see what the Pcarbonns of the climate denial world had dug up, and if I recall correctly, they made the cold fusion research look relatively mainstream. Even Mark Geier can get published in basic toxicology journals. Everything was from either from some oil and gas journal, or Energy and Environment. Sometimes they'll try to cite mainstream research, but the last time that happened, one of the authors bitchslapped the denialists in a letter to the NY Times.

I suppose it's unfortunate that the scientists opposing either won't, or aren't able to publish. Perhaps they should start their own journals/conferences, like the CF researchers or the fluoridation skeptics. I suppose I'm being contradictory, since they do publish in E&E, but I'm sorta thinking that they should start over since E&E is too discredited. My philosophy is that when something is too complicated for me to reasonably analyze, the only ethical decision is to defer to the experts. Especially when one considers the almost definite ocean acidification and the quite possible sea level rise. II | (t - c) 08:18, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Nuclear power has never been able to compete economically in a risk-accounting market. It has been developed using massive government funding, the operators don't have to carry the full cost of spent fuel handling, storing, and reprocessing, and they are exempt from carrying risk-adequate insurance. From a global warming point of view, I doubt the value of any solution that cannot be applied in Kenya, Somalia, Iran, or North Korea, for example. If we only fix carbon use in rich, western, politically correct countries, the then-cheaper carbon resources will just be burned in poorer, less developed and/or correct countries. If, on the other hand, you trust petty dictatorships and semi-anarchic third-world countries to run safe nuclear programs, you are way more trusty than I am. If we spend the money to develop low-carbon or carbon-neutral energy resources, we'd better invest in technologies that scale to most human societies. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 08:56, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Curiously, coal has never had to account for it's risks. Virtually every coal-fired power plant in the world emits more radiation than Three Mile Island ever did. I say virtually because I'm sure there are a few that have never operated. Re Kenya etc, their populations are too small to be major GHG emitters, even burning coal. Worry about China, then India. Both are fast-huge-and-growing economies, excluded from Kyoto, and happy to burn any fuel they can get. Burning carbon is not all bad though. Once soybeans are more profitable than opium, things in Afghanistan should calm down. I'm guessing that will be around the $1000/bbl mark.LeadSongDog (talk) 16:44, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm not advocating coal, either. But for a fair comparison, you should also account for Chernobyl, Sellafield, and SDAG Wismut - and for the amortized risk of future contaminations from e.g. spent fuel. Don't underestimate mid-size countries. Kenya has 40 million inhabitants, approximately as many as Spain. Iran has 70 millions. If they all consume at a US level, Iran alone would cause more emissions than Germany. North Korea or Somalia have as many each as e.g. Sweden. Yes, China and India are growing emitters, although they are not excluded from Kyoto. They are just not Annex-1 countries (yet). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 17:26, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

On the original topic, albeit a bit late: Hoo boy, getting stuck in the grapevine sucks. I feel your pain. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 12:34, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

ID

Regarding your revert: inline tags such as {syn}, {fact}, and so on have an optional explanation or comment parameter. The comment is not shown, so it's not supposed to sound encyclopedic. The comments are used to help other editors understand what the problem might be. Would you mind undoing your revert? –M^T 02:43, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Understood. And that's why I think the ID article is a piece of shit. Why do I need to read some commentary within the coding of the article to understand it? Your edits just continue the crappy article. I'm not ripping you, I'm ripping the article, and unfortunately, you are in good faith trying to improve the article, but in fact, you're giving a flu vaccine to a dead patient. The article should be deleted, and someone start over. It's a mess. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:51, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. Were you aware of its recent FAR? I have no idea what's going on: the opening sentence rips off the wording of the discovery institute, and implies evolution is a random process. The article is poor because its editors are stuck on a very narrow and very deep line of "consensus". Has a rewrite of any article ever worked out, and has a deletion/restart ever occurred? –M^T 11:57, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Guido den Broeder

Required notice to all parties involved with the Guido den Broeder ban/block/discussion: I have appealed the ban on his behalf at WP:RFAR. Cosmic Latte (talk) 19:23, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Give me a fucking break.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:46, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I know you're trying to be helpful to Guido, but this is too much.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:50, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Jagz

FYI: [3] Slrubenstein | Talk 00:02, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Good catch, but it's not even sporting any more. Does he not understand that we can figure this out fairly easily? Oh well, a certain admin will probably still want him un-banned. Meh. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:10, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Let that certain admin try to argue: "But Slapdown hasn't been disruptive on any article page!!!"--Ramdrake (talk) 00:14, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

She has. I'm just waiting for it. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:27, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh come on, that would be as likely as Arbcom voting on motions of a case they didn't have the votes to accept in the first place :) Aunt Entropy (talk) 01:50, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Do you notice that the same useless admin and useless Arbcom Member are always involved in the same bullshit? Anti-science rules!!!!!OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 05:50, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

2006 Gator Bowl FAC

I'm writing this here as well as on the review in order to ensure completeness. What citation style do you prefer? JKBrooks85 (talk) 22:35, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, it was just my opinion. I don't like sloppy citations, because they are hard to use, are formatted randomly, and don't allow for one-click access to the citation. BUT, that's my opinion, and since you want my recommendation, I'd say that the {{cite book}} etc. type of citation templates described in WP:CITET are the cleanest. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 07:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Syracuse University sig

I am not anti-Rochester :). Syracuse (or the surrounding region) happens to be where I want to live when I get older. I always cheer for the Orange and watch their games. Basically, I prefer Syracuse over where I currently live. :) - Mitch32^{(Go Syracuse)} 02:21, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm. I think we need to drug test you. LOL.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 07:49, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Ha-ha. Don't plan on it. :) Mitch32^{(Go Syracuse)} 10:53, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Antoxidants

The information i would like to submit comes from an article at

http://www.bigbluetech.net/big-blue-tech-news/2008/12/23/antioxidants-protect-scuba-divers/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.42.67.225 (talk) 07:54, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

That's not a reliable source. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 08:44, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Damn Yankees

Economic crisis? Where? Not in the Bronx: new stadium, new team, same fans.

Oh. And what's this business of dissing on small town California? I hope you enjoyed your stay in the environs of Bakersfield, and weren't traumatized by crossing the Grapevine in the snow, but I'm taking my cocktail dresses (red, black, leather, silk and otherwise) where they're appreciated.

SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:25, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

PS. Pity Jeter and Posada, so underpaid now. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:31, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Leather???? I'm now distracted.  :) It was actually Fresno. Raisins and all. The Sports Illustrated issue of last week had a little story about how competitive the Yankees and Bosox are during the GM meetings in Las Vegas. It was a good read. I'll laugh when all of the Wall Street types don't pay for or renew their season tickets next year. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:36, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh, better; not even a *real* small town in California. (I went to kindergarten near Fresno. Had a terrible crush on a cute kid named Jimmy who always wore a blue sweater. That's all I remember of Fresno.)

Will go looking for SI (and I do read the articles in spite of the nice pictures) ... I hope Verducci wrote the article; he's my favorite baseball writer. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:42, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Joe Posnanski (2008-12-22). "Take me out to...the Winter Meetings in Vegas, Baby, Vegas". Sports Illustrated. 109 (25): 44–51.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:49, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! (Maybe it will show up in my stocking.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:51, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

First a leather cocktail dress. Now stockings. Great. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:52, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

PS. Fresno IS a small town for me. I grew up in Los Angeles, a real city. Well, actually the San Fernando Valley, but east coast people hardly know the difference. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:52, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

With seams. (Fresno is a booming metropolis on my map.) Where did you go in the Sierra Nevada that you ended up near Fresno? Yosemite? (Was in San Fernando valley just a few months ago.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:02, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

If the RedSox had paid that kind of money to replace Youk or Lowell, I would have had to rethink my allegiance. (Did I lose you at the seams? Waiting for your AL East predictions. I predict that Wall Street will buy tickets.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:34, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

That was a depressing article. Did you see how many of that group of top paid players are Yanks? And you're probably right--94% of Americans are gainfully employed right now, including probably 95% of Wall Street Bankers (because, they make money if the stock market goes up or down), and they'll be buying all the Yankee's season tickets. My New Year's resolution is to learn new ways to hate the Yankees, including basing RfA votes on whether the candidate is a Yankees fan or not. Another resolution is to score a picture of you with seems. Hmmmmm. 16:03, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Advice?

Hi Orangemarlin, just wondering if you have a suggestion regarding this edit? I have a feeling that warring edits will accomplish nothing. Just let it go? --Scray (talk) 02:16, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

It's a rant, but not a bad one. I think letting it go is appropriate. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 09:20, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

My blunder!!!

Thank you for catching my blunder at User Talk:KillerChihuahua. It was purely an unintentional technical blunder. Very sorry. Regards, --Bob K31416 (talk) 13:12, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

And now, for Fvasconcellos' traditional nonsectarian holiday greeting!

Wherever you are, and whether you're celebrating something or not, there is always a reason to spread the holiday spirit! So, may you have a great day, and may all your wishes be fulfilled in 2009! Fvasconcellos (t·c) 14:53, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Is this a combination of my Christmas greeting from 2006 and my New Year's greeting from last year? Why, it most certainly is! Hey, if it ain't broke...

They look like Chanukah candles to me. :D Thanks, and Happy Festivus to you. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:04, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Happy holidays

Thanks for making 2008 an interesting and enlightening year for me; our paths have crossed and I've found your comments amusing, helpful or thought-provoking—I'll let you guess which ones were which!

Wishing you and yours a joyous holiday season, and happiness, health and hopefulness in 2009. I trust you'll enjoy this little token, a favourite performance of Baby, it's Cold Outside, for your holiday amusement.
Best, Risker (talk) 03:14, 25 December 2008 (UTC) (P.S. - Go Habs!)

Merry Kitzmas and a Happy Darwin200 Year!

Also seasonal news about Katie! All the best, dave souza, talk 18:42, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

That was funny. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:05, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Seasons greetings

HAPPY HANUKKAH (or other winter holiday) AND A HAPPY GAMEDAY

--B (talk) 20:14, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

• a fine Xmas message for all of us to be mindful of.... hehehe. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:57, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Wishing you the very best for the season. Guettarda (talk) 00:00, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

• • Apparently B doesn't quite know who my undergraduate alma mater is, and what game I'll be watching next weekend!!!!! OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:06, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Chiropractic edit war

I agree with you on the substance of that edit. However, please see User talk:Shell Kinney #Chiropractic edit war, and please bear in mind that Chiropractic is under special administrator review: editors are being blocked there for actions there that on other pages they would not be blocked for. Eubulides (talk) 02:18, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

And I would know that how? I don't read that talk page anymore, it's just long-winded arguing. But thanks for the warning.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:23, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

You're probably as tired of all this as I am, but things ratcheted up a bit since my previous comment, and further restrictions were placed on the editing of Chiropractic. Here's a brief quote from Talk:Chiropractic #Edit warring and arbitration restrictions:

"... from this point there will be no additional warnings issued. Any further actions deemed by an uninvolved administrator to be edit warring will be met with either a block or article ban."

It's not clear from this notice whether the intent is to enforce 1RR, 0RR, or some other variant. Eubulides (talk) 09:20, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

And that will give Elonka a perfect opportunity to block whomever she wants. I give up on the article. You have much more patience than I do with it.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 15:30, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

<sigh>. Why has the community allowed two admins to own these articles? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:11, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I'm going to butt in here which I hope is ok. Shell has been running the mediation [4] and thus has been mostly the one administrator watching the page though there are other administrators signed up to keep an eye on things. [5] SA just made a proposal on the talk page here. I thought maybe these links would help understand more of what is going on and maybe reduce frustrations and my hope is that more would aide Eubulides. Anyways I hope the links to where all the discussions and decisions are helps out. Happy holidays everyone, --CrohnieGal^Talk 18:09, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Orangemarlin, please don't give up on Chiropractic! The latest post on its talk page made it clear that the additional warnings were intended for editors and/or sock/meat puppets who were opposing the change that you reinstalled (this intent had not been clear to me). The views of experienced and impatient editors are helpful, sometimes essential, for that article to be improved. Eubulides (talk) 22:02, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

• Hang on, I explained myself horribly. I absolutely did not mean to place any sort of 0RR or other restriction on the article. Please take a moment to look at the clarification on the talk page and feel free to ask me questions if I'm still not being clear. Shell ^babelfish 22:30, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't respond well to threats. Seriously, I give up. I don't know why you think you own the article, but go for it. Enjoy it. Really. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:45, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Warning

Please do not add inflammatory unsourced content to articles as you did here; doing so is tendentious. If you honestly believe your edit to be an improvement, find reliable, neutral sources which support it. Thanks, Skomorokh 10:28, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know who you are, so don't be placing warnings on my page. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 15:29, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Your needing to be warned has nothing to do with knowing me. You made a dirsuptive edit, and I am simply asking that you refrain from doing so in future. You are responsible for the edits you make, and this talkpage is where issues with your edits are to be discussed. Sincerely, Skomorokh 16:56, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

It's not a disruptive edit, so the warning is utterly inappropriate. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 17:02, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

If you were familiar with the history of the article, you would I am sure agree that throwing offensive labels around without reliable sources has been very disruptive. (Sorry Orangemarlin for replying to this here) Skomorokh 17:41, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

At worst this is a debatable edit, since the site does not identify as Neo-Nazi though it has been characterized by Bill O'Reilly (political commentator) as such and it's founder is a former member of the American Nazi Party. Certainly a warning isn't necessary or justified and discussion on the article talk page is appropriate instead. AniMate 17:11, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. The category had already been removed because it was unreferenced, several weeks were spent purging the article of POV and original research on the way to GA status, and now this editor comes along and re-adds it on the following basis: "Simply because it is a Neo Nazi website". In other words, 'I am using this identification simply because I believe it is accurate". It is a classic case of an attempt to insert one's own subjective, unsupported opinion into an article on a controversial subject. I don't think you seriously believe in your suggestions of Nazi-by-association or that Bill O'Reilly is a reliable source for a neutral perspective on the website. Sorry again to Orangemarlin for replying to this here, but this simply cannot stand. Skomorokh 17:41, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

If people haven't found reliable sources characterizing Stormfront as neo-Nazi, it's because they haven't bothered to look. Here's a Google search across .edu domains (mostly U.S. universities): [6] Another search across U.S. government domains (.gov): [7] Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:20, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Are you suggesting OrangeMarlin did not bother to look for sources? Skomorokh 18:25, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

No, I'm giving advice to all concerned (including you). It's generally considered good form to make at least a perfunctory attempt to see if any sources are available before giving warnings, but perhaps you and other editors on that page are unfamiliar with how to limit Google searches to specific domains. I've shown you how to make searches for .edu and .gov domains, which tend to be good hunting grounds for reliable sources. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:34, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, thanks for the thought. I have been monitoring the article in question for quite a while, watching editors war over whitewashing the article or adding controversial POV descriptions of the website without sources. Like you, I am not interesting in proving or disproving any of the contested claims, but I will not let them stand without adequate referencing. Orangemarlin, Verbal, and everyone else, unless the claim that Stormfront is a "Neo-Nazi website" is adequately sourced according to WP:V, WP:RS and WP:GA? by tomorrow, I will remove it. I hope this will be the final word on the matter. Skomorokh 18:46, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't react well to threats, especially when someone is so patently wrong. He has placed similar personal attacks on Verbal's page, making similar and equally outlandish accusations against another editor. The fact is Stormfront is a Neo-Nazi organization. The argument that they are not is specious, and appears to be whitewashing a racist organization. Give me a break. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:44, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Bottom line: discussion is better than warning. All of this back and forth could have easily been avoided had you politely asked for a source for what is a reasonable, though incorrect, edit. Why be confrontational when you can be polite? The warning was not justified, especially when discussion is an easier option. AniMate 18:55, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I got into an edit conflict with you AniMate, but you said it a lot nicer than I think mine would have come across. Leaving multiple warning on multiple editors talkpages with do it or else it's gone doesn't seem like a proper way to communicate with others. I agree that discussing the matter is much better too. --CrohnieGal^Talk 19:02, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I suggest you both take a look at the article's discussion pages and re-acquaint yourselves with WP:V and WP:NPOV. This is not some sort of innocuous misunderstanding; Orangemarlin is an experienced editor and knew exactly what (s)he was doing, and these sorts of unsourced controversial edits to the article are a regular feature. Skomorokh 19:08, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Being right isn't an excuse to throw civility out the window. For the future, please try tempering your comments. You catch more flies with honey, etc. Is this really how you intend to interact with the rest of the community? AniMate 19:20, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

How's this for a source? LeadSongDog (talk) 21:23, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Given these comments, I'm taking Skoromokh's personal attacks on me to AN/I for resolution. I get sick of racist supporters around here. The Stormfront is run by neo-Nazi fucking racist, anti-semitic, White Pride fuckwads. To say anything else is giving those same fuckwads succor and support. Skomorokh, I don't know nor care who you are, but removing easily supported statements and then placing this bullshit warning on my page is beyond belief. Go away, and please, if you want to support racist organizations, I consider Conservapedia your place to do so.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:10, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the Conservapedia article calls it a hate group associated with the Christian Identity hate group; then from its CI article: "Christian Identity binds together a number of previously isolated groups...Important sections of the Ku Klux Klan, the neo-Nazi movement, the Posse Comitatus, the Aryan Nations, and other groups have adopted Identity theology."

An indirect connection, but a connection made nevertheless. So I bet adding "neo-Nazi" to their Stormfront article might actually be easier than getting it in here. This is ridiculous. I mean, when Conservapedia actually gets it right, we are far beyond someone's personal opinion here. Aunt Entropy (talk) 17:03, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

So I insulted Conservapedia? I apologize. Then, Skomorokh has no home for his POV pushing. Oh well. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:26, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

No need for apology; yours was a perfectly rational supposition, considering the source. :) Aunt Entropy (talk) 18:09, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

←Given Skomorokh's racist POV pushing, personal attacks on several editors, including myself and User:Verbal, I have started an ANI here. I want him blocked for what he has done. I'm sick of this bullshit. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:20, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

For some reason the AN/I section was archived rather quickly. I see no resolution. Enigma ^message 18:20, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and restored the section. Enigma ^message 18:26, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Enigmaman. I was quite puzzled why that had happened. Mathsci (talk) 18:34, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Stormfront (website)

Hi, I don't know if you saw my last message on the talk page here but I am not going to even try and be involved until the WP:OWNership ends there. I have pretty much been just watching to see how things were going there since I saw the warning here and at User:Verbal talk pages. I get frustrated there when I see that no matter who edits or posts something that one editor either moves things around, edits the entry or questions things on the talk page. I was surprise to see the box at the top with this editors name on it to ask questions to which seemed weird to me on a talk page, it's been removed since I questioned it. But really, no one should have this kind of control over an article like this. I am going to stop now since I try to be polite and I am angry right now at the last bit going on. I don't know what to do about this. I know you have an ANI going on but I don't see anything really happening there other than a claim of 3rr that was shot down. Suggestions? --CrohnieGal^Talk 20:34, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I just can't let someone whitewash the vile neo-Nazi's at Stormfront. It's a moral standard that we all need to uphold. Don't worry about the editor focus on the article. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:01, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Yea your right, I'll readd it to my watchlist again, and take a look again in the morning when my brain is clearer. Thanks, --CrohnieGal^Talk 17:55, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Hypoxia (medical)

Hey, I followed the anon (the Sequoia expert) to his page and did some poking around ... led me to revert some stuff on Hypoxia (medical) that the anon had added. Then I changed some PO₂s to pO₂ as I didn't know what phophorus dioxide was, but tho't it might mean partial pressure of oxygen (little p). Then I got to thinking (dangerous) and thought I might ask a medical expert about the proper terminology vs chemical thinking. Would you mind checking it in case I goofed? Cheers, Vsmith (talk) 21:27, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Yup, you're right. I'm not a chemist, but I'm almost sure that the only combination you can make between P and O is P₂O₅. Watch, I'll be corrected by Boris, MastCell, or some other troll.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:49, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

If it's in the article hypoxia (medical), then it's certainly meant to represent the partial pressure of oxygen, rather than a compound containing phosphorous. More correctly, it should probably be either P_AO₂ (for alveolar partial pressure of O2) or P_aO₂ (for arterial partial pressure of O2) (c.f. alveolar-arterial gradient). You can make phosphate with P and O (PO₄), but of course it's negatively charged... MastCell ^Talk 05:46, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Just read the fourth Joe Pitt book by Charlie Huston

Aah, nice. You gotta read these...Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:14, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

...for the backup there. I've learned so much: I'm "perpetuating Nazism" and have become "hysterical"; I feel a little like Dr. Strangelove: is my right hand inadvertely making the Nazi salute, or is it maybe trying to reach for the banhammer, and I'm struggling to stop it? Why, I don't even know my own motivations, and now I have a political axe to grind! My world is shattered; my favorite Jewish composer has just become a Gentile ... Good grief. Maybe I'll watch football today, or get out of the house. Antandrus (talk) 19:29, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm watching old-time hockey at Wrigley Field. My favorite Jewish composer is Bob Dylan.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:40, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

I do remember a rather funny exchange on the Larry Sanders show with Ben Stiller as a guest and 'Larry' getting into the subject :)) Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:57, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

About Dylan or Mendelssohn? As for Dylan, as I understand it, he was a Jew, then he was a Christian, now a Chabad Jew. Adam Sandler considers Dylan a Jew. I like reliable sources that verify whatever the hell I want. LOL. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:04, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Naw, the Larry Sanders show was one about (IIRC) was about them getting in a heated argument about being a self-hating jew (WRT their interpretation of their faith) in a way that only Stiller and Schandling could, and then scuffling about it. I really miss that show as one of the funniest on TV. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:36, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of Jewish musicians, I saw in this morning's paper that Father Guido Sarducci turns 66 today. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 21:27, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

LOL; the stuff makes me cough sometimes. So much I need to watch an hour or two of reality-TV cop shows where I assure you no such weed is in evidence. What a year this is turning out to be -- collision with anti-Semites, and now USC is winning in the Rose Bowl -- what else can go wrong? Probably a skunk will die under my porch tonight, and tomorrow the stock market will tank. Cheers, Antandrus (talk) 00:05, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Petrafan007

I spent about half an hour going through that referenced web site for Intelligent Design. It really argues against the need for refereed journals and for books (i.e. ones we publish). Most of the articles are the normal "I've got something I don't understand so it must have been God" rather than verifiable material. For that reason I reverted with a "go to talk recommendation". I'm not going to revert back (I have had enough of edit wars with the Ayn Rand fan club in the last week), but I'm curious as to why you rejected having it taken to talk. --Snowded TALK 20:43, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Which I reverted back, and gave reasons on talk. OM, looks like a minor muddle – excessive festivities? Happy new year, anyway. More to the point, Petrafan007 has a legit request for citation that "Dembski, Behe and other intelligent design proponents say bias by the scientific community is to blame for the failure of their research to be published." Either a cite is needed, or this should be rephrased to match the more general statements in the Hawks reference. . dave souza, talk 21:28, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Dear Orangemarlin,

Wishing you a happy new year, and very best wishes for 2009. Whether we were friends or not in the past year, I hope 2009 will be better for us both.

Kind regards,

Majorly talk 21:11, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, and a Happy New Year to you!OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:32, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Happy new year (wikicaps) greetings from me as well, OM. May you continue to keep your wikisanity in '09. :P And may we all figure out what to call this decade before the end of it. (I am partial to the "uh-ohs" (00s) myself...) Aunt Entropy (talk) 02:26, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Go Utes!

I hope you are watching this thing - I knew Utah was good, but never did I think they were this good - this will be a long night for Alabama if they don't get something together. --B (talk) 01:35, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm shocked. Just plain shocked. Those annoying Alabama fans must be wetting themselves. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I am enjoying myself right now. I might have to change my user name. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:49, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

The Bama players are really looking gassed already. I don't know if they just aren't very well-conditioned or they were out drinking late last night, but that's not a good recipe for them. Tech opens up with Alabama next year - I don't know who they return but I'm actually wondering if we might have a chance against them. --B (talk) 01:51, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Haha - pic of the year - [8] - I almost never go to this message board because it's a cesspool, but this is priceless. --B (talk) 01:52, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Did Casteel just spit on the Bama player? (On the PI play - the Utah receiver who was interfered with looked like he was spitting on the Bama player when he got up) ---B (talk) 01:54, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Didn't see that. 21-0 however.  :) And that pic was perfect. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:55, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Did you see that blitz?????? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Unreal ... (I assume you mean the last play of the quarter). I went back and watched it about 5 times - I have no idea who Utah's DC is, but that thing is brilliant. He's been shifting the DL before the snap quite a bit and when he brings that safety in late, there's no time to call out the protection and a lineman easily gets free. That's unreal. --B (talk) 02:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Yup that play was amazing. Alabama looks like it's totally confused. It looked like Utah rushed 8 defensive players on that play. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:07, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow ... if Alabama recovers that fumble, what a huge turnaround that would have been. --B (talk) 02:36, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

That Punt return took the wind out of the sails. The Utes need the halftime. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Nick Saban looks unhappy. --B (talk) 02:49, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh my goodness, what a HUGE penalty --B (talk) 02:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Finally the Utah pass rush buried that guy. Gotta put more pressure on him. Made it to halftime.  :) Antandrus (talk) 02:51, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Again, that punt return is the only reason this is close. I think the Bama offense is totally confused, and their defense is winded. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:55, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

←JJ needs to review WP:DICK. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Fox is terrible. Have you seen this? [9] (scroll down to see the picture) Fox's broadcast last night was unwatchable. When Cincy missed a FG, Fox's commentators speculated on whether or not it was blocked, but couldn't be troubled with showing a replay. The cameras frequently weren't ready when they turned them on. The announcers grated on a nerve. Local broadcast of high school games are better. --B (talk) 03:06, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I can't believe they got this contract for the game. BTW, who is sitting just to the right of JJ? He's actually a bigger dick. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:08, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, where do you find this stuff? Fox is definitely incompetent. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Barry Switzer is I think who you are talking about. The Tebow thing one of my coworkers sent that to me today. I wish I could have taken credit for noticing it, but I'm not that observant. ;) --B (talk) 03:12, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Switzer and JJ? The all ex-Cowboys coaching fraternity? LMAO. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

←Oh crap. I need drugs. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:18, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

"Little toss sweep out to the left". Umm ... what? That was not a "toss". Great announcing. --B (talk) 03:21, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm in a state of depression. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:23, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

OK, I'm laying off the Prozac for a few minutes. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:32, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

But that's even better than drugs. (Maybe.) Nice drive. Antandrus (talk) 03:32, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh boy - that TD pass looked like it was going to be picked for sure. The Bama DB appeared to have a great break on it - maybe he slipped? --B (talk) 03:33, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Utes uniform must be teflon or something. Bama can't tackle. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:37, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

The wind in the dome pushed that one to the left ;) --B (talk) 03:43, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

The frenetic pace is slowing down. I wonder who that favors? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:49, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

If it gets to 10 minutes and it's still a 2-score game, Utah wins. When they can pin their ears back and blitz the heck out of Alabama, they have murdered Wilson. But when Alabama has been able to mix in the run and the pass, their offense has done well enough. Even so, their only TDs were a punt return and one they got after being given a short field. They have not been able to march the field, so it may not matter - just don't turn the ball over and Utah wins. --B (talk) 03:53, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

OK, tell me why you aren't announcing this game. The annoying announcers are driving me crazy. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:55, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

AND Bama is getting too much 1st down yardage. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Who didn't see that coming? I have no idea why they ran it up the gut on 2nd down - that just gave Utah the opportunity to blitz on an obvious passing down. --B (talk) 04:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Well that punt doesn't help. Kind of restricts their offense. Grrrrrr. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:04, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

There is nothing more disheartening than giving up a long drive after a deep punt. Last year (07) against William & Mary of all teams, we punted and pinned them in at the 1. They drove 95 yards down the field and kicked a FG ... but giving up a 95 yard drive to a 1AA team was unbelievable. --B (talk) 04:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Did you see Saban after that punt? Maybe I'll feel better. Hey, I don't trust Virginia schools since I had to watch the 'Cuse, the number 3 seed, lose to Richmond in 199?????OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

We have now passed my magic number of 10 minutes. ;) --B (talk) 04:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm counting on it.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:16, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

If Utah can move downfield, this will be the game. I hope. Knock on wood. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:18, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

This is now the drill I've been through so many times this year - looking up at the clock, then down at the field ... up at the clock, down at the field ... repeat for the remaining 8 minutes. --B (talk) 04:19, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

They're running the ball. But that holding call really really hurts. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:21, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Horrid penalty - it was completely unnecessary. The back was already gone. --B (talk) 04:21, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Another horrid penalty. Sheesh. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:23, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

←If you're going to hit the guy on a fair catch, you at least ought to lay him out --B (talk) 04:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMBLE! --B (talk) 04:27, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Unsportsmanlike?????? Where? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Must have been for that little toss at the end. If so, that was weak ... very weak. --B (talk) 04:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

It's all yours now!  :) Antandrus (talk) 04:27, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not counting chickens quite yet. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:29, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

HAHA - wasn't that the toss they used to run with Alex Smith? --B (talk) 04:31, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Yup. And how much you want to make a bet Urban Meyer helped out a bit with the Utah coach?  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:32, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I'll go on and say it now - don't kick a FG. About the only way you lose is after a blocked FG return or a kick return. --B (talk) 04:35, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

They aren't reading this thread apparently. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:36, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

And I got an SU glimpse. Damn Auburn. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:37, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Now Alabama has the ball at midfield. Turn it over on downs and they've got 35 yards extra to go. --B (talk) 04:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Or maybe it doesn't matter. ;) --B (talk) 04:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Intercepted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 04:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Alabama's fall reminds me of a t-shirt from 1990 regarding UVA:

• #1 in the nation Georgia Tech 41 - UVA 38
• #1 in the ACC Maryland 35 - UVA 30
• #1 in the State Virginia Tech 38 - UVA 13
• #1 in the Charlottesville ????

What a game! --B (talk) 04:44, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Excellent game. And that T-shirt is hysterical. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:46, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Small pond, but they were clearly a very big fish (a marlin, perhaps?)—no miracle about it. Ten point spread was easy money. Thanks for the message. Cool Hand Luke 06:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I already ordered swag from the Utah bookstore. It might displace my rather tattered Syracuse 2003 NCAA championship stuff. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 08:35, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Re..Attack

Hi, I'm not sure how my comments are considered a personal attack. Anyway I have left an apology on the said persons talkpage. Best wishes.... 87.112.79.76 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.112.79.76 (talk • contribs) 12:34, 6 January 2009

Sorry

I did not mean to delete anything from you talk page. That was done in error. I never have deleted anything from anyone's talk page, at least intentionally. It was an accident. If I had not been up for 24 hours straight, I would not have made such a stupid mistake. Indeed, I am afraid of you and do not edit any articles knowingly that you do. I did mention fish oil to you on your talk page recently , but even that was scary. You are a regular poster on Sandys talk page, my measure that you are a danger to me. Thank you. —Mattisse (Talk) 19:42, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Did I miss a memo?

Was today declared Vandalize Medical Articles Day? Sheesh. Maralia (talk) 16:37, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I wanted to get some editing done, and I've spent 30 minutes just reverting vandalism. I haven't submitted an ARV in months, and today 2. Well, this will be fun. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:40, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

The highlight for me just now was when an account that had been changing 'cannot be cured' to 'can be cured' across various articles then proceeded to do so at Terminal illness! Maralia (talk) 16:50, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

People probably just don't have much to do right now, what with their jobs going down the crapper and all. So why not spend some time putting words of wisdom into wikipedia, such as "A cold that will last a single day when it should last at least a week is clear evidence of psychosomatic illness. " (no refs, of course). Or maybe the university students are still on vacation. --sciencewatcher (talk) 19:03, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm a little tired of it. I'm getting a SPA edit warrior at Syracuse University which is preventing me from doing edits to get it to FAC. Frustrating. But, we will weather this storm. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:07, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

To make you dislike me more!

I am a Tampa Bay Rays fan. And I feel good! —Mattisse (Talk) 04:50, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Please, there's no further need to post here. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:52, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stereotypes of Jews (2nd nomination)

I created a compromise with the nominator to close the AfD. Can I reopen the existing AfD, or create a new one, asking for this page to be deleted? This editor's behavior has been so toxic, I regret ever helping her.travb (talk) 03:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not an admin and not very familiar with the AfD process. Someone else will need to help you out here. And I agree with your assessment. Sometimes smoking the AGF weed just doesn't work. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:30, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

It looks like a new one has been opened at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stereotypes of Jews (2nd nomination). --B (talk) 04:50, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Okay then, wow I just voted "delete" ...(the saddest say was when manatees in popular culture got deleted :() Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs)

Thank you for your input. Best wishes this new year travb (talk) 21:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I thought it would be speedily deleted, but I guess not. I can't even believe some of the comments being made. Big noses??????? Where does this crap come from. I'm going to get drunk. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:34, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I just saw this response to you. Well I also posted the same as you that I found this offensive, I wonder why you were the one he decided to chide because you said you were offended. I think that article is ridiculous for an encyclopedia. This is the second time to try to delete, amazing! Enjoy your drink(s), I'm off to bed.--CrohnieGal^Talk 12:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I would delete it G4, but at this point, I can predict the future and tell you exactly what would happen if I did. It would be taken it to WP:DRV, there would be whining about the injustice of evil deletionist admins, the AFD would be reopened, and the only thing it would accomplish is set back the ultimate deletion of the article by 2 weeks. I have removed the racist stereotype list from the talk page and suggested that if Deeceevoice readds it again, blocking is in order, but unfortunately at this point, speedying the article would only result in more drama and a lengthier overall process. That is, I freely admit, a horrible failing of our procedures that garbage is allowed to exist in a published encyclopedia while we collectively decide what to do with it. --B (talk) 22:20, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know how the community would take an article about Stereotypes of Christians, but I'm sure us big-noses while feasting with Pontius Pilate can come up with one. Wait a minute, did I just quote Life of Brian? LOL. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:51, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Minoan eruption

What is with these edit summaries?[10] People often simply use BC without any intention of it being a "Christian" edit. Is there some proof this is Christian POV pushing in this article? I can't find it in the edit summaries. I don't see any notes by you on the talk page, and I think that BCE is the designation of choice (note, it's actually the 1618 that is Christian POV) for Wikipedia articles. If that's the case, and there is no indication that this article is being used to force the conversion of Wikipedia editors to Christianity, or merely to push a point of view based in Christianity--to be less hyperbolic--teaching other editors to use BCE rather than BE would be a useful contribution to Wikipedia. "Changed BC to BCE, a preferred, and considered more neutral dating choice on Wikipedia." As an example. In fact your edit summaries appear to be far more anti-Christain POV than the use of BC appear to be Christian POV. If I missed something nefarious earlier in the article, please bring the issue up on the article's talk page. --KP Botany (talk) 03:38, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Also, you can ask that a bot be created to change these. If BCE is preferred, as it is in most modern writings, this can be accomplished without multiple edits per article and throughout Wikipedia. --KP Botany (talk) 03:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I've read over the user's contributions. It's pure Christian POV. Nevertheless, the article was written with BCE (since I wrote it, I'd know, cause I don't ascribe to the BC/AD convention, since it's not relevant to my life). I am all right using BC/AD when it has a history in an article. But when an article is almost all about a volcanic eruption that affected the Greek and Egyptian worlds, using BC is kind of ridiculous. The editor has been reverted in a number of articles. No AGF makes sense here. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:45, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

BTW, I don't trust bots. I saw too many Terminator movies. :D. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:46, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

One more thing. I kind of resent your lack of AGF in stating that I'm anti-Christian. I'm anti-POV whatever it is. BCE is neutral. BC is not for an essentially scientific article. I would never argue for the use of CE in place of AD in an article about the new testament. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:48, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

My comment says, "your edit summaries appear to be far more anti-Christian POV than the use of BC," and I made sure it said just that, rather than stating you are anti-Christian. They really do come across as very hostile.

A link to one of the changes to BC from BCE would have done just fine in response, or comments on the article talk page. And, again, your edit summaries don't help as much as pointing out this is the convention on Wikipedia. Other editors will learn from that, so would casual checkers of the history.

I don't trust bots either. --KP Botany (talk) 04:08, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm a hostile editor. I'm fairly comfortable with that. He was reverted once. Second time, I'm not very nice. Anyways, I get your point, and we need to move on. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I've been known to be a hostile first chance editor. I'm trying to cool it, though. I think we did move on. I hope you saw my edit summary--it was an indicator that a good story is always better than a Wiki spat. --KP Botany (talk) 04:15, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I've got multiple chat rooms on here this afternoon. LOL. Missed the edit summary.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:17, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Wait until your talk page gets taken to WP:MFD for WP:NOT#WEBHOST and WP:NOT#CHAT. --B (talk) 04:58, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I'll just mention that a high ranking admin participated. That should protect me. Oh. Wait. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 05:12, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

You don't trust bots but you trust admins? Uh.... --KP Botany (talk) 05:15, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Did you use admin and trust in the same sentence? Ummmmm..... OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 08:34, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Clarification on something

This view of yours, specifically. Do you believe Wikipedia should exclude covering topics based on whether certain individuals or groups are offended by the topic the article covers? A one-word "yes" or "no" answer should do. Thanks. Warren -talk- 22:18, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Warren, I'm not OrangeMarlin, but that's a loaded question. The issue here is not whether or not somebody is offended. Lots of Wikipedia content is offensive to someone. For example, it has been widely reported that many Muslims do not like our articles about Muhammad including pictures of him. That's not a reason that we accept for deleting something. What is a reason is when an article serves no purpose whatsoever other than promoting bigotry. Any actual stereotypes that are worth mentioning can be fully covered in Antisemitism or another appropriate article. Rather than reporting bigotry, this article is bigotry. The issue isn't that it offends someone - the issue is that it is morally repugnant and ought to offend everyone. --B (talk) 22:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks B. And there is no way yes or no will suffice. I am offended by lots on Wikipedia, especially the New York Yankees article. An open and well-written article, no matter what it discusses, should be included here. These stereotypes are ridiculous, childish, unsourced, not notable, and insulting. Discussed academically in the anti-semitism article, as B suggested, is fine. I accept that. In a list of outdated and silly characterizations is just plain insulting and frankly racist. And to be honest, it's incomplete. So my answer is Yes, if done right. It's NO, in its current formulation. Sorry to give you an nuanced answer, but that's what you're getting. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:48, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Upon doing digging, I figured out that the only reason Deeceevoice created this article and the stereotypes of white people article was to make a WP:POINT. See [11]. It annoys ... well ... infuriates me ... how much time has been wasted dealing with this utter nonsense. His/her objection is to Stereotypes of African Americans. Rather than nominating it for deletion, he/she set out to create poorly sourced articles about prejudices against everyone else. What fun! --B (talk) 03:32, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

You're kidding right? Uh, you're not? This is more than infuriating. DCvoice should be blocked. Honestly. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:52, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

See all these. Obviously the whole bunch should either be AFD together, or else all should be brought to a common accepted standard, which implies a shitload of contentious work that nobody's going to enjoy doing. LeadSongDog (talk) 04:40, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

What everyone is saying is that deeceevoice, in a fit of pointiness, gets pissed off that there's a Stereotype of African Americans article, then decides to make a whole bunch of similar articles. And this isn't a blockable offense? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:56, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Textbook example of WP:POINT (see especially the second entry under Examples). Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 05:18, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

See also what Drenched started (and is evidently proud of).LeadSongDog (talk) 05:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I think the block/ban of these editors should be started, seriously. We should not put up with bigotry or hatred like this. I am totally amazed that this isn't done with already. Ceedee is under an arb retriction if I understood correctly. S/he went into a major rant a while back on ANI. But no one is doing anything. Three deletions for this garbage, what a sick joke. There are enough people saying it's garbage and to delete the whole lot of these. So someone do it already. I find this to be totally unacceptable to make a WP:POINT and obviously I'm not alone on this. --CrohnieGal^Talk 12:55, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Something much more fun to read...

OK, I really need some shut-eye and this nice editor has written a nice article you may like to offer some opinion on, or even judge for GA. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:34, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

No threats

Please readact your threat here: [12] you have no power to block or get someone blocked and threatening to do so for no reason is an attack. Viridae^Talk 01:24, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

"help you get blocked" is the actual quote. And last time I looked participating in any admin-related action on Wikipedia is largely "helping people to get blocked". Or maybe AN/I isn't the battleground that it is :-) Shot info (talk) 02:34, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Humorous. After 3 days off from Wikipedia, you come back to take offense to the most minor of minor things? --B (talk) 02:41, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Yawn. Apparently Cla68's lies are acceptable. Yawn again. I think my testosterone is on the highest setting cause the Utes slaughtered Bama. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:55, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

That game is on hulu.com if you are interested in rewatching any of it. --B (talk) 03:01, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Calling something like that lies when there is ample room for a mistake to be made is an assumption of bad faith and is also not helpful to the ongoing discussion. Threatening to have someone you are in a dispute with blocked is ridiculous attack and appears to be an attempt to chill critiscism. B my being away for several days has nothing at all to do with the validity of the warning. Viridae^Talk 03:06, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

You mean Cla68, despite tons of evidence to the contrary, can continue to state that I'm on some sort of sanction. Interesting. So, he's just badly mistaken, and is still in denial. OK, I'll give him good faith. And I appreciate your fair and honest review of the discussion, in a matter reminiscent of FT2's analysis. Thanks. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:18, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Viridae, as a part of Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/C68-FM-SV#Further_review_and_sanctions, you were instructed to avoid "Unnecessary involvement in disputes or administrator actions as to which a party may be unable to remain civil and professional or to avoid excessive emotional involvement". That would obviously include any administrative action regarding Orangemarlin. --B (talk) 03:19, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, so that's where I remember Viridae from. Ah, should have known. BTW, I wish I could get a video of all 8 sacks of the Bama QB. Now that would make me happy.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:22, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm sure they will be up on youtube soon enough. --B (talk) 03:27, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

And I'm coming to you when I need some hope in a football game. You called that last 20 minutes or so!!!! BTW, did you hear the Utah fans yelling "Urban Meyer" to Crimson Tide when they were warming up? It was during the pregame, and the Salt Lake TV stations had it. Now that was funny. And I still bet Meyer sent some tape, plays or something to Utah before the game. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:31, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Hadn't heard about that one. As for Meyer sending tape, there was someone that got in trouble for doing that a year or two ago. I must be getting old because I can't think of who it was - I want to say maybe one of the Mississippi schools. A coach called someone he knew in the other school's video department and the other school had just played this team he was going against. He got them to send him game tape which violated a conference rule that you could only exchange a certain number (3?) of tapes. But I'm sure that they got informal advice or something like that. --B (talk) 03:39, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah these days you get into trouble for anything. Why shouldn't Meyer help out his old team? And if it blows up a rival school, so much the better. :D I know you dance a bit of a jig every time UVA loses. Tell me the truth. Come you do, don't you? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:32, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

WP:UNI

Please be sure to let WP:UNI know in the future when submitting article for FAC! I've already made the updates, but we're here for a reason. :) Madcoverboy (talk) 19:45, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I didn't even know you guys existed. Teaches me a lesson for not reading carefully. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:49, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Utah

I was in Utah; I've just returned to Chicago. Cool Hand Luke 23:29, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I meant Utah not the state of Utah. My bad. :D OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:08, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes I did. I graduated in Chemistry and Philosophy, but now go to the University of Chicago. Cool Hand Luke 23:49, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm probably an old fart compared to you (just read some of the vicious comments from SG, Verbal and others below). I was there when BYU won like 20 games in a row over the Utes in football. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 00:03, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually...

Trademark ⊂ intellectual property. Copyright ⊂ intellectual property. Trademark ≠ copyright :) (I'm sure this is a highly inappropriate and inaccurate use of mathematical symbols, and someone will certainly complain)Fvasconcellos (t·c) 01:01, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Well there you go. I learned something new. I've been "volunteered" (cough, spit, cough again) to clean up the commons images for an article that I'm shepherding through the FAC process. Of course, this isn't easy. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:06, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Frankly, I would rather resign my admin bit and go through another RfA than try to get an article featured. On another note, I love the shortcut for Wikipedia:Restricted materials. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 01:10, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I'd rather listen to Mao's collected speeches than do either. But, courage! OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:08, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

BTW, being a Mac-head, this is what sosumi really is. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 02:09, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

As it is to me too, having been a Mac-head since ... since ... the things first appeared. Sadly, I'm currently typing this on a Vista laptop (the Blue Screen of Death Special). My copy of Mao's Little Red Book is less painful to read than the collected speeches, but mine is at work between a Dilbert collection and Punishments of the Spanish Inquisition (I just gave annual performance evaluations). Regarding FA and GA -- I prefer writing good articles to writing Good Articles, if you know what I mean ... it's a bureaucracy allergy I've developed in the last couple years. Antandrus (talk) 02:19, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I saw this section heading and the textstring orangem and assumed somebody was talking about me (those of my vandals who don't call me a faggot are all convinced I'm a commie). Sorry. Carry on. --Orange Mike | Talk 02:29, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

If you haven't been called both a Commie and a Nazi, you're either a newbie or not editing from a neutral point of view. Consider both badges of honor.  :) Antandrus (talk) 02:38, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

No no no. It's when you're called a trolling commie faggot deletionist. It's always good to hear from the other OM.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 06:15, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

New Year's Gift

Take your pick. This seemed like your sort of thing. Happy 2009! Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

A gift that keeps on giving. Thanks you friggin' commie, pinko, tree-hugger.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 03:05, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure why people associate communism with tree-hugging. The environmental records of the Soviet Union and Communist China make ExxonMobil look like Greenpeace. Of course, since communism and environmentalism are both deeply un-American threats to our way of life, I suppose there is some common ground... MastCell ^Talk 04:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, Boris (nee' Ray Ray) IS a tree hugger. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:15, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Yup, I'm thinking about converting to Druidism. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 17:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Syracuse FAC

Orangemarlin -- I couldn't help but notice a glaring omission in the Syracuse University article. The article currently omits the closing of the Manley Field House, when, for the final basketball game at the old arena, the mighty Georgetown Hoyas battled back from a 14 point halftime deficit to humiliate Syracuse, its stupid fruit of a mascot, and its pumpkin patch impersonating fan section, with a 52-50 victory, ruining a 57 game home winning streak for the Orange, and prompting the legendary John Thompson to shame the balding loser Boeheim by declaring "Manley Field House is officially closed!" This information is not even mentioned, but I feel it belongs in the lead and probably the infobox too. --JayHenry (t) 03:40, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

tehehehe ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:45, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

And just to make sure Orange doesn't miss the edit summary: [13] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:57, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh-oh. This is going to be trouble. (Note to self: do not mention where I went to school.) Antandrus (talk) 04:05, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I was at that game in the spring of 1980. I'm still pissed about it. And wtf is a Hoya Saxa (guessing that Antandrus is a Georgetown grad). I refuse to put that in the article. I would rather iron Jimbo's shirts for a month. Blah. BTW, it's always nice to humor SG in her cocktail dresses. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 06:22, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Won't catch me ironing shirts, clean, dirty or otherwise. (PS: it's 1 am on a Monday night; what cocktail dress? I don't sleep in them, you know.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:26, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Ummmmmm. Well, there are just too many ways to respond to that. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 06:30, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

That was a thread-killing dud. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:33, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I couldn't possibly write what I wanted to!!!!! OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 06:42, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Aren't you both too old for this kind of talk? (ducks) Only joking, and happy new year! I wasn't even alive in 1980 :s Verbal chat 10:51, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Someone needs to kick your butt. Insolent brat. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 11:00, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Have pity on the young'un; at least he has the good manners to wish us octagenarians a Happy New Year. A good spanking should suffice. (Had your fiber today, Orange?) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:15, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

This morning's breakfast includes, two slices of dry double fiber wheat toast, one egg, a glass of V8, and two cups of coffee with cream and Splenda (with fiber). I will have an apple for a late morning snack. So, I'd say my fiber content is fine. Yum.  :) Now hold on while I get into my walker. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:56, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

If you let someone who "wasn't even alive in 1980 :s" turn every good University/sports/cocktail dress thread into octagenarian jokes, you're going to need that walker. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:20, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

That's Verbal's fault. I think he needs a spanking, with a 48 hour time-out. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:30, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

It depends a bit on when you define life as starting, but I don't really want to get into that... I just wanted to stop you talking about "football". Cocktail dresses are ok by me! Now, if you'd like to talk about cricket instead, I could tell you about the time I watched Marcus Trescothick make his International Test debut? Verbal chat 17:39, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Cricket??????? You are really trying to hijack this thread. I can't take a sport where the game continues over a couple of days. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:45, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

(ec) @Orange. At least you could soundly rebuke him for making fun of a lady's Bedhead flannel pyjamas and calling her too old to be in a cocktail dress at 1 am. Back to basketball: I'm not sure which is a worse nickname, Hoyas or Orange, or which one of them ran down the court more times than the other, but basketball should never be allowed to interfere with baseball season. (Only three more months to go, and you still owe me a Yankees prediction.)

(ec) @Verbal. So now it's cricket? You're on thin ice, bud; your next post better be funny, or you get spanked. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:52, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

(double ec) Orange, I can't believe you said that you can't take a sport that continues for days to a kid who just called you old and insulted my fashion sense. This thread needs a quick recovery. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:52, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Cricket on ice? That could be fun!!!LeadSongDog (talk) 18:44, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

SG, I have no problem with you, or anyone, wearing cocktail dresses or otherwise at 1am. I'm sure they look great, but probably wouldn't suit me. I'm more of a David Tennant type (maybe a young Gary Oldman for those of you across the pond). I might try cricket in snow later this week, but wearing whites could be confusing - especially for the French. I'm sorry to hear that OM can't last the full 5 days just for a draw any more ;) Verbal chat 18:52, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Orange, I think the ball is squarely in your court. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:56, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Square balls? Sounds positively Sicilian! Of course for playing Ice Cricket they'll have to be made of rubber, but should they be vulcanized to slide or India rubber to bounce?LeadSongDog (talk) 19:24, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Cocktail dress break

←Verbal. See I had a whole separate interpretation of the 1AM cocktail dress comment. Let's just say my imagination ran amok.  :) And we're mixing metaphors here. it should be the ball is in my pitch. LOL. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:12, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Orange, I'm shocked; ironing some shirts for pennance may put your mind right. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:33, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Me? Iron? I'd rather go with the wrinkled, rich preppy look.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:36, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

OM, did you arrange for the England Cricket team to completely explode as a punishment for me?? So cruel...Verbal chat 09:01, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Now that RSA are down an opener, maybe the ex.captain should return home? :-) Shot info (talk) 09:52, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

You two are speaking in some foreign language that is completely unfamiliar to me. Black cocktail dresses are familiar to me (ummmmm as an object of observation not as a personal wardrobe item). "Down an opener" sounds like a euphemism for drunkenness. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:15, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

You should ban these youngsters (who don't appreciate baseball or cocktail dresses) from our conversations !! (Red, Orange, Red, as in Cardinal and Red Sox.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:44, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I happen to love cocktails, but baseball is just a dull, simplistic, form of cricket. We call it rounders over here, and it's a game for small girls... Twenty20 is the future. (For more info see opening batsman and cricinfo for the whole sorry tale of England cricket team resignations, sackings, and stupidity). As for red cocktail dresses, it depends on the shoes (converse? very chic) Verbal chat 17:52, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

This is progress (a youngster who knows it's all in the shoes). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:56, 8 January 2009 (UTC) When I'm tired of shopping, I sit down and try on shoes.

Baseball is dull? At least most games are over in 3 hours give or take. You still haven't explained why I need several days to complete a test match? As for red cocktail dresses, I prefer them matched with 3" heels.  :) OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:16, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Arf !! Why do you want a perfectly good ballgame to be over in 3 hours? (You need to see more classic Red Sox games.) As for heels, I prefer to keep a foot firmly on them. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:40, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Being a devout NL fan, I'm more used to 2.5 hour games. And as for your photo, I'm guessing that you're going to get a lot of offers here. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:48, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

(ec) OM, you may find Cricket terminology helpful. No doubt questions will be asked, so study up. I too used to puzzle over the length of test matches until I realized that golf was just as bad, but without any defence to make it interesting. SG, if I may inquire, will you be returning to your previous identity anytime soon? LeadSongDog (talk) 18:54, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

First on Cricket. Comparing it to golf is not helping me get interested. The only time I've watched a golf tournament is when I turn on Sportscenter and get the 35 second review. But more importantly, you have destroyed my image of SG now. My mind's eye had her looking like this.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:10, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Playing cricket has a lot in common with ballroom dancing, if that helps (I'm not keen on golf either - or ballroom dancing, actually). Verbal chat 19:15, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Ballroom dancing should not be done with converse. You're distracting me from completing my blog about Obama and healthcare insurance. I keep coming to Wikipedia for links, and I see the bright orange bar indicating I have a new message. Then I have to go find good Diane Lane links (yes, I'm infatuated with her).OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 19:28, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, now I'm supposed to live up to Diane Lane? Well, in that case, try keeping up with this. (I think all of your orange bar problems could be solved by putting a banner at the top of the page banning talk about cricket, basketball, golf, fiber, octagenarians, and don't forget bowling while we're on such exciting topics ...) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:14, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Bowling is nice, and a lot of puffers came from there! . dave souza, talk 21:01, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Just as long as you're not an octogenarian. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:04, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

This damn page. Keeper | 76 20:17, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Just so long as shuffleboard and tiddlywinks are still permitted... LeadSongDog (talk) 20:20, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

And Keeper76 shows up for some vandalism. If only Boris and MastCell come along, the day will be complete.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 20:59, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

So how do we get this on the main page? DYK? Or in the news section with photos? Verbal chat 21:02, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I think SG has some superpowers with respect to the main page. But I could be misguided. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

In spite of your impeccable taste, you are misguided on that score. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:43, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Well that's what happens when one shoves a pencil up his nose. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:48, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I read your page at least a couple of times a week, for the chuckles. I don't usually contribute anymore. The jokes are either entirely too sophisticated and therefore intimidating, or they're just too stupid to bother with. I'll let you decide how this thread is going. :-) By the way, MLB Network is very promising if you can get it on your cable service. Of course, with such a small fan base (12 people) for baseball down there, they may not even bother with it. Keeper | 76 02:13, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I saw this edit summary and thought Keeper was trying to talk up the SEC to which I would have responded that if Syracuse defected to the SEC it would at least improve the IQ of both conferences. --JayHenry (talk) 02:41, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Blackadder thread

Tddlywinks? Cricket?

Blackadder: Well, for God's sake, George, how long have you been in the army?
George: Oh, me? Oh, I joined up straight away, sir! August the 4th, 1914. God, what a day that was! Myself and the rest of the fellows, leapfrogging down to the Cambridge recruiting office and then, playing tiddlywinks in the queue. We'd hammered Oxford's tiddlywinkers only the week before and there we were, off to hammer the Boche! Crushingly superb bunch of blokes. Fine, clean-limbed… even their acne had a strange nobility about it.
Blackadder: Yes, and how are all the boys now?
George: Oh, uh, well… Jacko and the Badger bought it at the first Ypres, unfortunately. What a shock, there. I remember Bumfluff's house-master wrote and told me that Sticky'd been out for a duck, and the Gubber had snitched a parcel sausage-end and gone goose-over-stump frogside.
Blackadder: Meaning?

George: I don't know, sir, but I read in the Times that they'd both been killed.

SG: You left cocktail dresses off... Verbal chat 20:34, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah, that last ought to get OM's imagination restarted.LeadSongDog (talk) 20:58, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I was forced to watch Blackadder when I lived in the Netherlands. Everyone in the office loved it, and it was in English (of some form that was totally unfamiliar to me). Of English humor TV, I'm more of a Monty Python fan. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:00, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Try sticking pencils up your nose. . dave souza, talk 21:02, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

That's how I stimulate my brain. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:05, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Great: I get this from Orange sticking pencils up his nose. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:21, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

See that's what I hate about Wikipedia. It perfectly remembers drunk editing. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 21:32, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Next time, hide the pencils before you drink. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:43, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Good advice. Or hide the drink before using pencils? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:48, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Here you go, just add BoSox cap. Don't say I never gave you anything.LeadSongDog (talk) 21:35, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Still picturing Diane Lane = SG. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:49, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

You'd never catch me wearing this, this, this, this, or this. (She seems to go for the exaggerated shiny fabrics.) Nice earrings, though. Someone should introduce your Diane to the First Lady of Gowns. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:57, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I personally wouldn't complain about Diane Lane in any of your this's. Oh, wait a minute, that was Diane Lane in each this. However the purple dress with long slit would be my fav. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:58, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

ACC in the national title

There's an ACC team in the national title game! Sadly, it's the officiating crew. ;) --B (talk) 01:38, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

So, what's the prediction. I still have time to call the non-existent bookie. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 01:55, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

My prediction is at least 5 more horribly bad mistakes by the Fox crew calling the game. Here's what I have so far:

• "Tebow in trouble and he'll scramble for a gain of one. (a pause for about 5 seconds - I'm thinking, he sure looked like he got more than one) And he will get five more after that for a gain of six."
• When Oklahoma was on the goalline, they called 2nd down 3rd down, 3rd down 4th down, then when they still had the ball, they realized they were a down off. The commentator apologizes for not helping the play-by-play guy out there.
• On UF's TD, the receiver's rear end looked like it was down on the ground. They showed us 4 angles and paused it with the ball breaking the plane and still in his hand. Ok, fine, I believe you, it's not a fumble, but how about pausing it where his rear end hits the ground and seeing if the ball is over the line yet.

I sure don't remember Fox being this bad last year - they have just been awful this bowl season. --B (talk) 02:45, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Video

I thought with the work you've done with free energy and cold fusion recently you'd appreciate this video. Tim Vickers (talk) 17:19, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

ROFLMAO! But does the Turbo Encabulator also dice tomatoes? KillerChihuahua^?!? 17:34, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

It's like the laws of cricket. It's obviously a fake because they mispronounced Zeitschrift für Physik. But does it blend? Verbal chat 17:39, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

heads up

You have been mentioned here, albeit in a tangential way. FYI. Slrubenstein | Talk 16:41, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I've been watching all the threads. No need for me to comment, since I'd just come across as hateful. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 17:50, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

I've learned something about WP

If you are going to make people mad at you here, make sure it's enough people to form a lynch mob, because everyone pities a lynching victim, whether he deserves it or not.

Problem with one = content dispute

Problem with ten = indef block

Problem with thirty = "Lay off, you big bunch of meanies braying for blood!!! Just chill out and have some fricken tea, why doncha??!?"

Aunt Entropy (talk) 22:36, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

You've learned much grasshopper. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 23:00, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

FAC revisited

Orangemarlin, I apologize about my previous suggestions on the Syracuse University FAC. You were correct that my comments were not made entirely in the spirit of WP:AGF. In the spirit of WikiLove, I sincerely apologize. (Please don't try to get me blocked.) I did a Google News search of Syracuse to see if there's any recent news stories that might be useful for you to use in the FAC. Amazingly, I found two very recent articles from high-quality sources that were not in the article. I enjoyed reading the following articles, and since you have an interest in Syracuse, you might too:

• Georgetown Throws Down Syracuse, 88-74
• Juiced-Up Hoyas Crush Orange; Georgetown Shoots 59 Percent, Never Trails Against Syracuse : Georgetown 88, Syracuse 74
• Of particular interest, I see that in his most recent game the one Syracuse guard hit four 3's but 0 women.

Hope this is useful. All the best. Your good friend and dedicated helper, --JayHenry (talk) 05:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

You are permanently on my list of evil Wikipedians. I hold you in utter contempt. I shall do everything to disrupt and harass you at every chance. And in honor of the passing of Khan, "revenge is a dish best served cold". Wikilove my ass...what the hell is a Hoya??????? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 09:35, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

I think an hoya is the feminine of an hoyo, which is a hole or a pit in Spanish. HTH, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:27, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

If only there were, say, a freely available, user-edited online encyclopedia dictionary which could answer such questions... :) MastCell ^Talk 21:40, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Fixed that for you.LeadSongDog (talk) 21:54, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Read. And still we ask, what the hell is a hoya???? LOL. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 22:45, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

FT2

See User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Open_letter_from_FT2 Verbal chat 09:59, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, saw it. It qualifies under WP:TLDR. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 10:03, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. I have an urge to shout "KHHHHHHHAAAAAAAN" for some reason. Verbal chat 10:04, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was the best of the movies. By far. And remember, I'm an old fart, so I actually watched Space Seed on TV when it was on NBC in 1967. And there wasn't any 1080p high-def TV either. And I walked uphill in both directions in 10 feet of snow. Well, there was snow in Los Angeles, even back then before global warming. But I digress. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 10:11, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

So, I decided to read it a bit more (thereby, reducing my sleep tonight by a full hour). So, did he or did he not resign? I can't tell. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 10:36, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

He's stepped down, until a hearing (the design of which he outlines). I've asked for a clarification. He isn't contrite though. I have to agree, it is my favourite Trek film. Unrelated, I'm probably in trouble over at the List of pseudosciences talk page - I would consider that an abuse of admin tools. Verbal chat 10:39, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

She won't threaten you with a block, because you haven't contributed to the thread above about the current wiki-drama. As for FT2, this is a mockery of everything that should make a great Wikipedia.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 10:45, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

You might want to have a look at this piece of crud masquerading as a medical article

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_intolerance

I'm not an expert, but it looks like there is a whole load of pseudoscience and not much fact. It seems to be mostly based on the pseudoscientific definition of food intolerance, rather than the actual definition. I can't even tell whether or it any of the stuff is actually backed up by the references because they're all stuck at the end. I just removed a few obvious bits of crap but I suspect it needs a lot more work. I don't have time to work on it right now anyway, but I'd be interested in seeing if you have any thoughts about it. --sciencewatcher (talk) 03:28, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

It's a piece of crud, because it's badly referenced (so far, few of the references actually support the writing) and it is a long way from passing WP:MEDMOS. However, there is some evidence of IgE issues with certain foods. But, it is totally unbalanced. It's a POS right now, and I've tagged it as such. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:26, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Of all the templates we have deleted, this is the one I miss most ({{sucks}}:

This article sucks and is in need of attention. Please improve it in any way you see fit.

Alas poor Hoover; we know them well. Antandrus (talk) 04:33, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Looks like Jimmy Dyson to me. Dam that Hoover. . dave souza, talk 11:25, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I never saw that before. We can't use it? OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:36, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I was checking links. Elimination diet is worse by far. I checked out the history, and I wasn't shocked by the contributors. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 04:45, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Can we put them on it? Just asking...LeadSongDog (talk) 04:53, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, an elimination diet is actually a reasonable way to approach a potential food allergy or sensitivity. Our article could be better, I guess. This article (PMID 15864086) might be a good starting point. There are some iffy food-allergy tests out there (PMID 18489614), but elimination diets (combined with oral food challenges) are a reasonable part of the diagnostic algorithm (PMID 10678717). MastCell ^Talk 07:14, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

My concern with the article is that it is written in a manner that offends my sensibilities of what constitutes a well-written article, not that I think it's another form of colon cleansing. But I remain highly skeptical of any of this environmental allergen are the root of all medical issues POV. Some parts are written "ok". Some are cruft. And being a part of the "diagnostic algorithm" is quite different than what reads like the only diagnostic tool available for a whole host of diseases, like diabetes. My issue with Food intolerance article is not that I think it's BS (I don't), it's because it was written in a manner that makes a relatively intelligent reader think it's BS. And elimination diet, is an odd word. Again, it makes it appear that eliminate the right things, we cure cancer, diabetes, and ED. (I exaggerate for dramatic effect.) I think the two articles should be combined into one. I don't want to find that Oprah is on the new elimination diet that she found on Wikipedia.  :) And thanks for bringing logic to this discussion. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 08:36, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah yes, A Cure for Cancer. . . . dave souza, talk 11:25, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Hm... I prefer No Cure for Cancer. MastCell ^Talk 19:21, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

When I got diagnosed with Crohn's disease my doctor had me do a diary with an dietician with an Elimination diet. I just read this article and it's nothing like what I expected it to read. If it stays in this state the article title should be merged to food allergies or something. This article is nothing like what I was taught about how to use the elimination diet. Just a thought, --CrohnieGal^Talk 13:55, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Holy crap I opened a can of worms. One problem with the article is that they seem to be lumping all sorts of food intolerance together. Maybe there should be a separate short section for each type of food intolerance, with links to the main articles for each. As I understand it (and I'm no expert), IgE is well established, as is lactose, gluten and certain chemicals such as sulphides. Others such as IgG are mostly unproven although there is some evidence that IgG might play a role in IBS (although it is not proven). The IgG is also the version of food intolerance that is used by all the quacks, and it appears to be the version that this article is mostly describing. Quackwatch also has a good article on dubious food intolerance tests. My own guess is that IgG does play a role in IBS, along with stress, but you probably need to actually do the test on the IgG from the gut itself, not using the blood which is how the ALCAT test does it. But that's irrelevant for the article. --sciencewatcher (talk) 16:19, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I thought IBS was what you have when they don't know, or are to lazy to find out, what you have. And shouldn't the IBS article say so? I've seen a specialist misdiagnose Spigelian hernia as IBS.Mccready (talk) 16:57, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I open cans of worms around here every day. That's what we're supposed to do. I restructured the article (with lots of unwritten sections) using WP:MEDMOS, which allows us to bring it together with legitimate research on what the disease is and is not. Using the elimination diet for diagnosis of Crohn's disease is perfectly legitimate, but that article makes me picture something altogether. MastCell is correct that it is an important diagnostic tool, but I disagree with him that it's not that bad of an article. It stinks in just the way CG says. And there is a lot of cruft in both articles. Lots. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:44, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry pet peeve about to be talked about. :) IBS and IBD are two very different diseases. Sorry to make mention but I went almost two years with the IBS diagnosis and my Crohn's disease was found by emergency exploratory surgery. Also, IBS is not diagnosed only because of laziness, read the article, it explains it pretty well. I'll take a look again at the article too. Thanks for listening, --CrohnieGal^Talk 13:25, 18 January 2009 (UTC)