User talk:Narky Blert/2021

Wikipedia is not therapy

Dear Narky Blert

Thank you for that link. I had not seen that essay before. As it says, Wikipedia: Wikipedia is not therapy. That being true, therapy in the form of providing at least a modicum of purpose and meaning is in the eye of the beholder. As is equally, I suppose, disruptive behaviour. That said, I was surprised to be accused of wiki-lawyering. It seems to me that WP policies and essays are OK to rely on when explaining why some actions should not be taken, but relying on such policies and essays to explain why an action was taken is seen as wiki-lawyering. I have also been surprised that essays which are not part of WP policy and have not been vetted by the community are referred to as if they have some kind of quasi-policy status. I know of only one exception, and that is WP:BRD, which I was recently surprised to see is only an essay rather than WP policy. Even so, BRD seems to have become custom and practice.

I wanted to say this as politely as I could rather than having it floating through my head, for the next six months.

thank you, René aka Sandbh (talk) 00:02, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

What to do when the source itself is ambiguous?

At The Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth, you added a dab-needed tag to an internal link to Diospolis. Now I'm not sure what to do. I did realise at the time I added the link that I was linking to a disambiguation page, which I did because the source used only refers to "Diospolis", without disambiguating which Diospolis is meant. From the context, it's clear that it's supposed to be a Diospolis in Egypt, but still there were two cities with that name in ancient Egypt (Diospolis Magna and Diospolis Parva).

Now someone with more knowledge than me about ancient Egypt might know which Diospolis was meant, so it would make sense to leave the dab-needed tag on the page. On the other hand, I'm not sure whether this is what the tag is normally used for, neither whether future wiki users would understand what is expected from them. Other options are to remove the wiki-link itself, or to link to the disambiguation page in the proper way (by using something like [[Diospolis (disambiguation)|Diospolis]]<!--DAB link is intentional, source is ambiguous over which Diospolis is meant--!>, as I've just learned).

What should I do in cases like this? I'm relatively new here, but given the nature of the materials which I work on, I suspect that I will be confronted with this kind of thing relatively often. Apaugasma (talk) 19:07, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

@Apaugasma: Good question! I'd already bookmarked that one for possible attention by WP:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome in case someone there knows for sure. (They're really really good. I was astonished that anyone could confidently solve this problem - Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome#A link to a DAB page.)

What I do when I've decided that it will likely forever be impossible to determine exactly which place is meant, is to add an {{efn}} footnote something like. "The source says FizBuz, but that could mean either FizBuz (north) or FizBuz (south)". No WP:OR, and it shows that an editor has had a good hard look at the problem, and readers learn that it's unsolved and possibly insoluble.

I've used that technique in particular for English birthplaces when there are two villages less than a mile or so apart, locations of air combats in WWI and WWII where even the war diaries of the units would be unlikely to help, and birthplaces of the ancestors of Jewish emigrés from e.g. Poland or Belarus where many villages have the same name and it's highly unlikely that any records have survived. Narky Blert (talk) 20:02, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

(PS - my money's on Thebes, but I can't say so or even suggest it in WP's voice.) Narky Blert (talk) 20:08, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

I like this footnote idea, but would leave the ambiguous term unlinked altogether and just have the footnote say: "The source does not specify whether this is FizBuz (north) or FizBuz (south)". BD2412 T 20:24, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

It depends. If someone was born in 1200 AD in FizBuz, I will confidently assert that it was none of the places in USA with that name. If an air ace won a victory in France in 1915, I will link to the DAB page noting the unlikelihood that it took place in Brittany while linking in particular to the places where IMO (WP:OR...) military logic says it could have taken place. Narky Blert (talk) 20:52, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Dear Narky Blert and BD2412: Many thanks for the input! Thanks a lot also for alerting me to the existence of Wikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome (I too would have been able to answer your query about Philo and Zeno, so I will definitely add this page to my watchlist).

What I've ended up doing is what I should perhaps have done in the first place: do some extra research. It turns out that even the editor of the English Nag Hammadi translations isn't sure whether the Hermetic treatise is referring to Diospolis Magna or Diospolis Parva (and, moreover, that he wrote this in a passage which I had actually read the first time, and even cited), so it seems that it is fundamentally unclear (as these things often are). I've added an explanatory footnote as suggested, but with the added bonus of a reference. Apaugasma (talk) 21:29, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

@Apaugasma: Excellent!

If you ever need them, both DGRBM and DGRG are available online at archive.org - old, but solid scholarship, and well-referenced. Narky Blert (talk) 03:30, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Another for your collection, but well earned

		The Disambiguator's Barnstar
		The Disambiguator's Barnstar is awarded to Wikipedians who are prolific disambiguators. Aside from your general prolificness, I wanted to call out the comments I see you adding after dn tags. The rest of us do some investigation, hit a dead-end, and just throw that effort away, leaving a glaring dn sitting there unadorned. It's nice to see you putting forth the effort to help those that follow (at the very least to not repeat the same research), and hopefully it can inspire the rest of us to do the same. -- Fyrael (talk) 18:04, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

@Fyrael: Thank you! I'm know I'm not the only one - I've cleared {{dn}} tags where I'd just about made up my mind but wasn't really sure - until I opened the page to edit it and found that another editor had reached the same tentative conclusion. Two of us? this may be a time to be WP:BOLD! And, as you suggest, a hint may be all the next passing DABfixer needs to get the job done. (Even a {{dn}} tag can do that; I remember once tagging a dozen articles about college football; next day, all had been cleared.)

They can also be aides-memoires to self for the next time through - you've already looked at this, and failed (or, got this far, if you feel like having another go).

They can also have the hidden agenda - is there any real chance of notability here? feel free to unlink. Narky Blert (talk) 19:10, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

WP 20

Thank you for good wishes! - Happy Wikipedia 20, - proud of a little bit on the Main page today, and 5 years ago, and 10 years ago, look: create a new style - revive - complete! I sang in the revival mentioned. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:17, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

... and today Jerome Kohl, remembered in friendship --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:04, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Anniversary

	Vicennalia
	Thanks for all your work for the encyclopaedia; it's twenty years old today! GPinkerton (talk) 19:46, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Kurds and Kurdistan case opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kurds and Kurdistan. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kurds and Kurdistan/Evidence. Please add your evidence by February 5, 2021, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kurds and Kurdistan/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 16:17, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Erich Kunzel

The Amen! album was a Grammy nominee. Perhaps the more extensive credits should be shifted to its own page? Does being nominated for a Grammy automatically make it notable enough for its own page? --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 06:20, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

@Scottandrewhutchins: A Grammy nomination puts it in with a fighting chance - see WP:NALBUM#4. That guideline says such albums may be notable, but doesn't guarantee it. I'd want to see a couple of reviews as well (which it almost surely had - nominations don't come out of thin air). Narky Blert (talk) 08:02, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

January 2021

Hello, I'm Kamilalibhat. I noticed that you recently removed content from List of characters in Ramayana without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Kamilalibhat (talk) 09:55, 24 January 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Wikipedia:Wikiproject Bluelink patrol

A tag has been placed on Category:Wikipedia:Wikiproject Bluelink patrol requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 16:24, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

@Liz: Please treat this as a {{db-author}} speedy. The capitalisation of "p" in "WikiProject" is incorrect. The correct version of the cat is Category:Wikipedia:WikiProject Bluelink patrol, which is populated. This page was most likely the result of a bad save while I was setting up a nest of categories yesterday. Narky Blert (talk) 16:42, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Should we move that to Category:WikiProject Bluelink patrol? Most similar categories don't contain "Wikipedia:". Certes (talk) 17:04, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

@Certes: I saw your comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Bluelink patrol#Gone live. The moves won't be difficult, but I'm giving it a day or so until any accidental garbage such as this is cleaned up. Creating a group of new related cats is, fiddly. Narky Blert (talk) 17:12, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Pending changes protection

I've been thinking about your proposal on ANI for pending changes protection on mainpage articles, and I think this really has potential. Would you be interested in bringing it to the idea lab? Pinging @Hemiauchenia and @TheDragonFire300, who were also in favour. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 09:12, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

@Vaticidalprophet: Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Pending-changes protection of Today's featured article. Narky Blert (talk) 10:37, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Disabled filter 1010

(also @Certes:) Hey, Narky Blert. From the looks of the log, the "irrelevant linker" is inactive, so I've disabled filter 1010 (hist · log). If they show up again, let me know, and I'll switch it back on. The true positive from October was in the same range they used earlier, Special:Contribs/240f:ca:ea:1/64, a block might be more effective anyway. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 20:53, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

@Suffusion of Yellow: See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1054#IP editors breaking links in Indian film-related lists (Part 3) for the most recent cliff-hanging edge-of-the-seat update. There's no point in keeping a filter running if it's catching nothing. If this nuisance reappears, it should show up (as I now know) in Category:Pages with excessive dablinks (which I refresh daily, or try to). Its signature style is inscribed on a parchment which I keep under my pillow. Should I come across it again, I'll be (as they say) back. Narky Blert (talk) 21:39, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. I agree that there's no point in running a filter which catches nothing, but let's keep it around (disabled) in case we need it or a modified version again later. The Indian film vandal is different from "irrelevant linker". I suspect that for some (probably good-faith) reason they replace the section by a list compiled by taking film names from a (probably reliable) source and mechanically adding square brackets, without understanding that not every article can have its ideal title. Certes (talk) 00:03, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Proposed decision posted at the open Kurds and Kurdistan case

In the open Kurds and Kurdistan arbitration case, the proposed decision has now been posted. Please review this decision and draw the arbitrators' attention to any relevant material or statements. Comments may be brought to the attention of the committee on the proposed decision talk page. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. You were notified as you made comments in the case request. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 16:08, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

@Dreamy Jazz: My sole contribution to this case is accurately reflected in WP:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kurds and Kurdistan/Proposed decision#National and territorial disputes, and I have nothing to add. For the rest, I can do no better than draw ARBCOM's attention to "Well as, one judge said to the other, 'Be just and if you can't be just be arbitrary'" in William S. Burroughs' notorious novel Naked Lunch. Narky Blert (talk) 18:37, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Schmidt-Lademann House disambiguation needed

Dear Narky, I am not quite sure how your comment https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Schmidt-Lademann_House&diff=next&oldid=1007307983 can be resolved. The original source only mentions: "the whole floor is covered with blackbutt mosaic tiles". The exact Eucalyptus type is not specified. Blackbutt parquettry is a quite common notion usually without specifically mentioning the exact wood type. Therefor the original article probably also did not mention the exact wood type. Please give a hint, how you think this should be resolved. Thanks Frank-Peter — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.93.182.177 (talk) 13:59, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back to me, and so quickly. I suspected that that might be the case, and have solved the problem using an editorial footnote. No guesswork needed. Narky Blert (talk) 14:09, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kurds and Kurdistan closed

An arbitration case regarding Kurds and Kurdistan has now closed and the final decision is viewable at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:

• Standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for the topics of Kurds and Kurdistan, broadly construed.
• GPinkerton (talk · contribs) is indefinitely banned from the English Wikipedia. This ban may be appealed twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.
• GPinkerton (talk · contribs) is topic-banned from articles related to Kurds and Kurdistan, broadly construed. This ban may be appealed twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.
• Thepharoah17 (talk · contribs) is topic-banned from articles related to Kurds and Kurdistan, broadly construed. This ban may be appealed twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.
• عمرو بن كلثوم (talk · contribs) is topic-banned from articles related to Kurds and Kurdistan, broadly construed. This ban may be appealed twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.
• Supreme Deliciousness (talk · contribs) is topic-banned from articles related to Kurds and Kurdistan, broadly construed. This ban may be appealed twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.
• Paradise Chronicle is warned to avoid casting aspersions and repeating similar uncollegial conduct in the future.

For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 14:32, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard § Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kurds and Kurdistan closed

XIIIfromTokyo

Hello, I am writing to you because you were the one speaking French in the Guy Macon's ANI topic, and because Drmies asked me not to write in the current ANI topic. I just had a look to the global contribution link XIII gives in the ANI and I ended up on a conversation name "the pedophilia conspiracy in Sciences Po" on the French Wikipedia : https://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=180233351#Le_complot_p%C3%A9dophile_de_Sciences-Po . You can see by yourself the misrepresentation of the truth he is giving, most of the contributors do not really understand his point of view anyway. He is saying that a false pedophilia conspiracy theory is being put in the article with sources like Gala and that he wants to alert the English WP of this because it could look bad if journalists see it (one is telling him that Gala is nowhere to be found in the sources ; they tell him to write on the English help desk, but he says he tried with no outcome, not mentioning of course the current ANI, but anyway).

I noticed one point though: he is asking several times, and it is the aim of the topic, if somebody would know the personal contact information of WP English administrators ("est-ce qu'une personne fréquentant le bistro aurait un bon contact avec du coté des Administrators de la version anglaise ?" "Donc si quelqu'un a un contact d'Administrator à qui refiler le bébé, je prends." – administrator is in English "je demande... le contact...").

(Redacted) I thought you might want to know he is trying to privately discuss the matter with English Wikipedia admins. Best wishes.

--Delfield (talk) 19:49, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

@Delfield: IMO Drmies gave you good advice in WP:ANI#XIIIfromTokyo, and you are right to follow it. You've made your points for everyone to read. There's no value in repeating them. I plan to stay out of that discussion from now on unless someone proposes a vote.

If XIII wants to contact an English WP admin, Talk Pages and emails are available. The other editors who posted in that French WP thread seem well aware that enwiki and frwiki are entirely separate. No-one seems to have responded to the suggestion of involving le service juridique, and I suspect a trace of le second degré in Thibaut's post.

The comment les anglo-saxons relatant les choses de façon moins édulcorées que les francophones made me chuckle. French lawyers are accustomed to sign off letters containing blood-curdling threats of legal action with Soyez assuré de mes sentiments les plus distingués.

Should you suspect that my posts in that ANI thread were designed to provoke a reaction, with a good idea as to what it might be, you could well be right. Narky Blert (talk) 21:18, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Ok :-). --Delfield (talk) 23:01, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

I think XIIIfromTokyo is using over and over that common trick of politicians: to answer about a scandal about you, appear shocked and make a scandal about the question about the scandal so that the other one has to explain himself and the subject becomes the other people's question or comment. But I am not answering or interacting with him at all now, and it seems admins are seeing it. Best wishes. --Delfield (talk) 08:30, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Arbitration Case Opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/RexxS. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/RexxS/Evidence. Please add your evidence by March 13, 2021, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/RexxS/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, SQL^{Query me!} 04:52, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Siadn

Of course, you already knew everything I wrote at WP:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 February 28#Template:Wikipedia disambiguation. However, it may be attended by editors who know more about templates than they do about disambiguation. Whatever happens to {{Siadn}}, I just wanted to clarify that {{Disambiguation}} can't replace it (though {{Dn}} might). Certes (talk) 15:53, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Templates are such a good idea that it's important to have as many fine distinctions as possible. See Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 February 15#Template:R from alternative hyphenation and Template:R from alternative punctuation just below it. Who cares if they're improperly or inconsistently used, or require guesswork?

It's probably too late to add siadn to that discussion, and I don't intend to try. I mentioned it for completeness (assuming there are no other disambiguation templates no-one knows about).

In my experience, discussions about disambiguation (except at WT:DAB and WT:DPL) are always attended by editors who know nothing about the subject and won't see the problem. Narky Blert (talk) 16:26, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Citizenship

You right of course. It might work for England, Scotland and Wales, but would fall flat on its face in NI. (I thought continuing to reply at ANI was unproductive) 92.3.131.156 (talk) 03:02, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

The whole topic is full of agenda-pushing, including historically, and not just in UK. The Balkans and the Near East can be as bad. Narky Blert (talk) 08:40, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Category:Roud Folk Song Index songs has been nominated for deletion

Category:Roud Folk Song Index songs has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. (t · c) buidhe 00:51, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Goalkeeper

Not a problem; I wasn't even aware such a request had been made, I saw a link being fixed on one of my watchlisted pages and though "I bet there's loads" and turns out here was! GiantSnowman 12:58, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: Most readers will just pass straight over links like that; but readers who don't know a particular game will be best helped by the most specific bluelink we have. Narky Blert (talk) 13:03, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

If there's any more soccer-related cases like this let me know, more than happy to help where I can. GiantSnowman 15:50, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

We also have Penalty shootout and Referee, plus several where the primary topic isn't sporting: Cap, Captain, Manager, Wing, Left wing and Right wing. I fixed about 600 articles in September 2018 but plenty of later additions may have potential for improvement. Certes (talk) 16:43, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Five-eighth yielded two easy bad links and one impossible one. Narky Blert (talk) 17:47, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Help requested at WT:WikiProject Rugby union#Five-eighth. Narky Blert (talk) 17:56, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Back is already on my daily check. Plurals may be of interest: I just fixed Backs and Captains, but Wings may be interesting, (if only for Paul McCartney). Certes (talk) 18:13, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Just the one good album IMAO. Narky Blert (talk) 18:48, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Plural Wings done: one McCartney and one aircrew brevet. Another is about eating turkey wings, but turkey wing leads elsewhere so I left it. Plural Managers also done: just the one football reference. Am I the only one who finds it hard to glean what sport an article is about without looking at its categories? Certes (talk) 23:53, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Procedural close per WP:TRAINWRECK

Please note that the AFDs for various canal locks are all separate — as the nominator says, links are provided for convenience, but each one's nominated separately, so TRAINWRECK doesn't apply. Nyttend backup (talk) 15:49, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

GENUKI

Is there a convincing reason to create a special "Futher reading" section for GENUKI in settlement articles, rather than use the "External links" section? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 09:00, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

@John Maynard Friedman: It could go just as well in EL. Narky Blert (talk) 09:28, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Good because I guess you saw that I've already shot first and asked questions later. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 09:39, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

As a multi-lingual Wikipedia

Good afternoon In case I got the name wrong this is a message for Narky Beart Nyttend backup (talk Is there any reason why the performance credits on German Wikipedia`s entry for Angelique Rockas https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Angelique_Rockas&action=edit&section=2 cannot be transferred to the English Wikipedia? Is there a possibility for you to do this ? There are production photographs on this artist`s page without any text? It is restricted to Wikipedians with over 500 edits. Thank you IP Address provided {195.191.67.225 (talk) 13:21, 27 March 2021 (UTC)}

Slightly messy (the first link I checked in the English article failed verification; but I've found a replacement) - I'll look into it. Narky Blert (talk) 13:32, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. There is also material on https://es.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Angelique_Rockas&action=edit&section=2 I noticed you have some knowledge of Spanish. IP Address {195.191.67.225 (talk)} — Preceding undated comment added 14:03, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive

Hey y'all, the April 2021 WikiProject Military History Reviewing Drive begins at 00:01 UTC on April 1, 2021 and runs through 23:59 UTC on April 31, 2021. Points can be earned through reviewing articles on the AutoCheck report, reviewing articles listed at WP:MILHIST/ASSESS, reviewing MILHIST-tagged articles at WP:GAN or WP:FAC, and reviewing articles submitted at WP:MILHIST/ACR. Service awards and barnstars are given for set points thresholds, and the top three finishers will receive further awards. To participate, sign up at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_History/April 2021 Reviewing Drive#Participants and create a worklist at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/April 2021 Reviewing Drive/Worklists (examples are given). Further details can be found at the drive page. Questions can be asked at the drive talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:26, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Claudia Pulchra

I just now realized, you own source supported my position that there was only one person of that name. Your timely and ill-conceived intervention has now caused me a tremendous headache. Avilich (talk) 18:25, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

@Avilich: You orphaned the DAB page. Narky Blert (talk) 21:31, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

No, I deleted it because it was unnecessary, and now there's someone attempting to undo everything because of you. Your a misleading comments in the talk page were just enough to cause a general confusion. Avilich (talk) 21:56, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

@Avilich: You deleted it without taking it to WP:AFD. That's why three editors including myself have reverted you. Narky Blert (talk) 06:24, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Don't pretend to be in favor of a discussion: you refused to discuss the subject on the talk page after I encouraged you to, and your only contribution was a source which supported my position all along. The other two who reverted me were only doing so because they thought you had a valid position to begin with; they had no personal objections of their own either. This is nothing more than pointless obstruction. You're still free to offer more arguments in support ofyour position in the talk page: but you won't do that, will you?

With regards to your most recent restoration I shouldn't need to tell you that disambiguation pages are only supposed to list articles with the same title. Avilich (talk) 13:45, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@Avilich: Not true. I expressly quoted WP:DABMENTION - "If a topic does not have an article of its own, but is mentioned within another article, then a link to that article may be included if it would provide value to the reader." I've seen valid DAB pages which contained no links at all matching the page title. Narky Blert (talk) 13:50, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

She is named Clodia, not Claudia Pulchra, and she does already have an article of her own, duh. Avilich (talk) 13:52, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@Avilich: Clodia Quadrantaria was born Claudia. Narky Blert (talk) 14:04, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Not "Claudia Pulchra". I ask you to check the sources I left in the talk page, and the source you yourself provided (DGRBM). Only the great-niece of Augustus was called Claudia Pulchra. Women in the ROman Republic did not have surnames. Avilich (talk) 14:05, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@Avilich: Please read the introductory paragraphs of MOS:DAB and WP:DAB. Narky Blert (talk) 14:11, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

There is already Claudia (disambiguation) and Claudia gens#Claudii Pulchri; any of these could be put as hatnotes on the article Claudia Pulchra. Why on earth does there need to be a Claudia Pulchra (disambiguation) when there is only one person of that name? Your own guidelines say that disambiguation pages are only for ambiguous search terms. A name borne by a single person is not ambiguous. Avilich (talk) 14:14, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@Avilich: They aren't my guidelines, they're English Wikipedia's guidelines (which I had no part in shaping). Narky Blert (talk) 17:57, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

How does this have anything to do with what I just said? They support what I have been doing. What do you even want after all? What is your specific grievance? What do you think should be done with the page instead, that cannot be done with the others I linked? Avilich (talk) 17:59, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Avilich (talk) 19:00, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Hndis

This is not used for simple given names. Template:Human name disambiguation explains its scope, stating "A page that lists all people with the given name "Jayson" should use {{given name}}." You'll also periodically find hidden comments stating the same thing that somebody has added to name and dab pages. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:24, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

@Clarityfiend: Which is the page in question? It's appropriate for mononyms, see {{disambiguation}} and Category:Human name disambiguation pages.

As a sidenote, name pages invariably collect bad links, which can be difficult first to locate and then to fix. See e.g. User:Certes/Taxa linked to surnames (and its page history), User talk:Certes/Archive 5#More taxon authorities, User talk:Certes/misdirected links#Mononymic taxonomists, User:Certes/Surname links and User:Certes/misdirected links#Surnames. WP:BPAT hasn't really got round to name pages yet.Narky Blert (talk) 09:48, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

It's Bobo. I'm periodically going through Category:Human name disambiguation pages to reclassify single name pages, but have only gotten partway through the A's. Clarityfiend (talk) 19:13, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

@Clarityfiend: Bobo contains Bobo (singer) and Bobô (footballer, born 1985), both of which are mononymic hndis matches and neither of which is a given name. Should we open a discussion at WT:DAB? I trust that you will be monitoring all pages you reclassify from {{hndis}} to {{given name}} for new links?

As a follow-up to my sidenote, I came across a suspicious-looking link to Bergman next to a DABlink yesterday, and made a check. 4 of the 8 links-in were wrong. Narky Blert (talk) 06:59, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

A discussion would be fine. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:15, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

@Clarityfiend: I'll give it a think, and post a draft opening statement here. If we can agree on a neutral form of wording, the discussion is more likely to be productive. Narky Blert (talk) 07:27, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

There are a lot of bad links to surnames. They seem to be specially grandfathered into the base name, even though no sane person could believe that the surname is the primary topic for Schoenberg, Wills or Braun. Narky Blert and I have each fixed several thousand such links, my personal best being Zunz with 122 errors. Still, consensus can change: years were similarly above the law, but we eventually managed to shift AD 1 from its unjust occupancy of 1. Certes (talk) 11:08, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Category:Songs written by Eddie Jobson has been nominated for deletion

Category:Songs written by Eddie Jobson has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Richhoncho (talk) 23:05, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Category:Songs written by Noël Greig has been nominated for deletion

Category:Songs written by Noël Greig has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Richhoncho (talk) 23:12, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Category:Songs written by Roy Butterfield has been nominated for deletion

Category:Songs written by Roy Butterfield has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Richhoncho (talk) 23:15, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Category:Songs written by Palmer McAbee has been nominated for deletion

Category:Songs written by Palmer McAbee has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Richhoncho (talk) 09:51, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Old Sundanese (disambiguation)

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A tag has been placed on Old Sundanese (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either

• disambiguates only one extant Wikipedia page and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic);
• disambiguates zero extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title; or
• is an orphaned redirect with a title ending in "(disambiguation)" that does not target a disambiguation page or page that has a disambiguation-like function.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 12:44, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Incorrect wikipedia edits position

hello, I noticed that your userpage says that you are 70th in terms of number of edits on wikipedia, however this list puts you at 66th. Thank you for your contributions! DirkJandeGeer (talk) 11:01, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

@DirkJandeGeer: I'm waiting until I get to #65 or am promoted to WP:Auspicious Looshpah before I update ;-) Narky Blert (talk) 11:04, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Review request

hey, can u review this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:V1T0 since last year he was featured serveral times in Croatian Billboard/Complex equivalent muzika.hr ( one article/interview with full focus on him ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Captainjackcactus (talk • contribs) 15:45, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

@Captainjackcactus: Sorry, I don't review draft articles - and I see that this one was reviewed and declined less than half an hour ago. I suggest you read and follow the advice which JavaHurricane, an experienced new page reviewer, gave you. Narky Blert (talk) 16:21, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

today

See my talk today, - it's rare that a person is pictured when a dream comes true, and that the picture is shown on the Main page on a meaningful day. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:54, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: When the Zorian Quartet made the premiere recording of Britten's 2nd Quartet in 1946, it ocupied an odd number of 78 sides. Rather than leave one side blank as was sometimes done, they recorded a filler; the only recording of Britten playing his viola. Narky Blert (talk) 14:38, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Name pages

Hi Narky Blert, do you know why people with the name Majorana are listed at what appears to be a spelling variant different from the most significant bearers of the name; members of the Majorana Calatabiano family? (Ettore has a number of articles on WP named after him).

There's also a person named Maiorano listed there instead of the page for that name, even though it's acknowledged that the surnames might not be related. I didn't know where I should ask about this but you were last to edit the DAB and a dedicated user, thanks. 94.15.165.206 (talk) 23:27, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

What I meant was, is there a reason Majoranas and a Maiorano are listed here instead of at Majorana (surname) and Maiorano respectively?. 94.15.165.206 (talk) 08:42, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Good question. I have an answer, which convinces me at any rate.

The standard Italian alphabet does not include "j". The article Maiorana is about the surname as-such, and the spelling with "i" both seems to be the most common variant and is the one used in the source; so in this article about the name we should go with that. Although many of the notable bearers of the name have spelled it with "j", probably for historical reasons (if you don't know how Cholmondeley is pronounced, you'll never guess), it seems very likely that the origin of both variants is the plant. We have only the one article about a Maiorano, and it makes sense to me to cover that name in Maiorana even though the origin is probably different; that couldn't be explained on a DAB page or in a redirect.

I've added see-alsos to Maiorana; including that Italian article, which was an excellent find. It looks as if all relevant redirects are in place. Narky Blert (talk) 08:58, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

But people called Chumley aren't listed at Cholmondeley (surname) and Ferraris, Ferraras and Ferraros, for example, are all listed seperately. I feel having them all listed at Maiorana is unusual and cluttered. Speaking of which, here are all the redirects relating to these names (that I could find):
Maiorana (surname)
Maiorano (disambiguation)
Maiorano (surname)
Majorana (disambiguation)
Majorana (surname)
Talk:Maiorana (surname)
Talk:Majorana (surname)

I'm sure you're more familiar with WP:Name pages and WP:Disambiguation than I am, but wouldn't it be OK to list the person named Maiorano at the DAB? My understanding is to list people on DAB pages as long as there's no more than one, in which case a name page would have to be created. 94.15.165.206 (talk) 09:52, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

DAB pages can contain any number of people who share the same name; see e.g. Aaby and Aalst. They only need to be split out if there's something encyclopedic to be said about the name, or if there are so many that the DAB page is unwieldy. The only requirement is, that a DAB page which contains even one surname entry should be tagged (as those two are) to populate Category:Disambiguation pages with surname-holder lists.

I have no strong feeling as to whether or not Stefano Maiorano should be added to DAB page Maiorano. The general rule is, that people should only be listed on both the DAB page and the name page if they're often known by just their surname; see e.g. Newton. Narky Blert (talk) 10:15, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

On the Maiorana page, the yellow pages ref is not a WP:RS and the Hanks ref only has entries for Maiorana and Maiorano, where their relation is disputed.

What/where would you say would be the most proper way/place(s) to list each of these names?
Maiorana is good where it is? (can't be listed at Majorana because there's something encyclopedic to be said about it?)
Majorana (no sources for it and three notables; move to Majorana DAB or Majorana (surname)?)
Maiorano (mentioned in the Hanks ref; one notable; relation to Maiorana uncertain)

If this needs to be decided by more than two people then do you know how a discussion could be opened and where's suitable? Thanks. 94.15.165.206 (talk) 11:15, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

I think the current situation is pretty much OK - but if you'd like to open a fuller discussion, I'd suggest at WT:WikiProject Anthroponymy (and link to this one for the background). Narky Blert (talk) 12:09, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, I will do that. 94.15.165.206 (talk) 12:49, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Narky Blert, I've waited a while but the project seems to be largely inactive these days. Is there somewhere else you could point me? Thank you. 2A02:C7F:38FC:A300:B87B:EE6D:7D66:4C3B (talk) 13:07, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

That's a pity, because I felt sure that there would be the best place to ask. I suggest giving it another couple of days in the hope that someone does join in there; and if no-one does, asking for a WP:3O. Narky Blert (talk) 13:27, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Will do, thanks again. 2A02:C7F:38FC:A300:C438:26B:68C7:8C92 (talk) 21:42, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Narky Blert, how would you describe the "disagreement" on the WP:3O page? I think what I wrote at WP:APO was maybe not clear enough.
Also, I hope the third party will not be influenced in any way by the distribution stats on the Maiorana page, because the yellow pages source they come from is not reliable. Thanks 19:37, 14 June 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:38FC:A300:5D0C:846B:4179:28E5 (talk)

How about something like this? I've nowikied everything out, so as not to disrupt the formatting of my talk page. Feel free to adjust my suggested wording.

==Page naming - Maiorana and Majorana== Currently, [[Maiorana]] is a surname page and [[Majorana]] is a DAB page, which crosslink to each other in a technically-correct manner through the redirects {{-r|Majorana (disambiguation)}} and {{-r|Majorana (surname)}} respectively. I think that the primary spelling of the surname is Majorana, but {{u|Narky Blert}} thinks that the current position is satisfactory. We have discussed this issue at [[User talk:Narky Blert#Name pages]] without reaching agreement (or getting heated!), and our positions are set out there. My post at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anthroponymy#Help needed]] has attracted no response. So, here we are; I ask for a [[WP:3O]] to resolve the dispute.

Narky Blert (talk) 19:35, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

I've altered that and added it to WP:3O, but you might want to double-check it. I've included Maiorano and it's redirects but took out the parts saying "I think Majorana is the primary spelling" and that they're crosslinked in a technically-correct manner. Majorana is the name borne by the most prominent people but just from searching the Web it looks like the spellings with an "i" [1][2] are more common than those with a "j" [3][4]. My concern is more about listing them all together just because they're spelled similarly. And lastly, the crosslinks mostly point to redirects which I'm not sure is technically-correct. Thanks again 2A02:C7F:38FC:A300:515C:E312:33DA:15A9 (talk) 00:37, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi again, User:TransporterMan has since removed the disagreement from WP:3O without even looking into it. What's my next course of action? Would I be allowed to readdress it there again? Thanks 15:15, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Heigh-ho. The reason given was "insufficient talk page discussion". It looks like a discussion on the talk page of Maiorana or Majorana (cross-linked to the other) needs to be opened. Narky Blert (talk) 15:23, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Could you show me how you would write that please? Because the discussion's already been had here extensively. Sorry for how long this has lasted by the way but I honestly thought it could have been resolved the same day I asked. 17:00, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Copy your detailed argument from here, and link to all other discussions.

WP:NODEADLINE means that discussions are hardly ever resolved the same day. Narky Blert (talk) 17:49, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Did my best at Talk:Maiorana, could you put your opinion there also? Otherwise I don't think they'll add a third. Thanks 09:24, 29 June 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:38FC:A300:18E4:4F36:8921:7E5 (talk)

Hi Narky Blert, I've been asked to re-start the discussion, this time at the talk page, with the two main opinions summarized there.
Could you restate your reasoning there as for why people with these different names are listed on that page instead of their own? Thank you. 2A02:C7F:38FC:A300:2C0A:A5C2:4687:D229 (talk) 23:54, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Rugby women

Several articles on female rugby union players have been created or expanded recently. I've grounded the usual Ospreys and Wasps (and retrained a couple of hookers) but this may be an area where you'd spot something I've missed. Certes (talk) 12:03, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

A set of concerted WP:RMs, or perhaps better a WP:RFC, with the idea of pointing ambiguous plurals of common nouns to DAB pages instead of the singular WP:PTOPIC would not be unjustified. As you well know, Bees, Eagles, Hornets, Lions and Wolves (among others) are perennial sources of laughably bad links. I guess that the majority of readers typing those words into the searchbox are looking for a sports team not an animal. Buffalos, Bulls, Canaries and Giants, for example, which redirect to a, or are a, DAB page, are not a problem. Links to them get fixed within a few weeks if not days - rather than years. Narky Blert (talk) 22:26, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

WT:REDIRECT might be the place to open such a discssion. Narky Blert (talk) 22:35, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

These would probably be redirects for discussion. The few past RfDs I can find have not gone our way, even when a famous band vies for the title:

• WP:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 June 7#Ospreys
• WP:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 May 19#Eagles

However, consensus can change and it may be worth another try. Certes (talk) 11:09, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Changing the basename of a DAB page needs an RM; I've been procedurally thrown out of RFD for suggesting one there. Narky Blert (talk) 11:14, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Ah, true: RfD could only retarget, which would leave the dab malplaced. Certes (talk) 11:16, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Requested move at As above, so below (disambiguation)

Hello Narky Blert! There is a requested move at As above, so below (disambiguation), but I don't understand the rationale of this request (here). Could you take a look at it and explain why we should or should not do this? Thanks! ☿ Apaugasma (talk ☉) 03:21, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

@Apaugasma: The RM looks like harmless busywork to me, but probably in line with the guidelines. There was a recent discussion at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation#Feedback needed with Pink and blue about the opposite concept (Caps at the basename, LC at the DAB) during which I remembered black and white (LC at the basename) and Black and White (caps at the DAB). So long as readers can easily get where they want to be (and bad links to WP:PTOPICs don't accumulate), I'm not too fussed. Narky Blert (talk) 07:01, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Edit notices templates

Do you want a link to the ones I found from our conversation from the last Tfd you started? --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 14:55, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@WikiCleanerMan: Thanks, that would be helpful. It should be easy enough (if repetitive) to sort out ones on DAB pages (bad) from ones on lists or list sections (good). (We could do with more of those - I question how much they actually deter editors from adding their family, friends and pets, but they can't hurt.) If you post or link to your list here, I'll move or copy it into a subpage. Narky Blert (talk) 15:28, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

After the last Tfd it is now 569. Here it is. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 15:44, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@WikiCleanerMan: Oooh, good search string, thanks! I'll have a go at that. No need for copying, I'm used to attacking that sort of list (see WP:BPAT).

Looking at your userpage - have you considered outing yourself as a WikiGnome? There's {{WikiGnome topicon}} (which looks uncommonly like A. muscaria). Narky Blert (talk) 16:11, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Not really. Just doing my part in cleaning up Wikipedia. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 16:13, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@WikiCleanerMan: The longer I've spent on WP, the more I've realised that there are hosts of unseen specialists working away in the background doing exactly that.

If you ever have time to waste, there are some entertaining articles about WikiFauna. Some are elusive, and rightly so; I had the privilege of describing one of them. Narky Blert (talk) 16:38, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

A stalker writes: Why do they write that out longhand rather than having a template like {{Dynamic list editnotice}} with standard wording? Certes (talk) 16:51, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

If the wheel is well hidden, it may be easier to reinvent it. Narky Blert (talk) 17:00, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Let me know when you start a Tfd for these templates. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 19:25, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@WikiCleanerMan: First batch posted (and I've dropped a hint on the talk page of the admin who created them all). Filtering the search was really easy - I could ignore titles including "list" or a (name) qualifier, and DAB pages jumped out from the rest because I have "Preferences/Gadgets/Display links to disambiguation pages in orange" enabled. Narky Blert (talk) 14:53, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

• Seeing as it appears a mass nom is upcoming I should mention that I have bot approval for addition of TfD notices. Just ping me and I'll add them within a few hours. --Trialpears (talk) 20:39, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

  @Trialpears: Thank you, I'd be grateful; anything to speed up this process. The complete remaining list (Dan-Waris; 57 by my count) is at the top of User:Narky Blert/sandbox. The rationale for all of them is identical to the one at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 June 15#EditNotices on DAB pages (batch 1). Alexf, who created most if not all of these templates, has been editing little in recent days, and hasn't reacted to my post at User talk:Alexf#EditNotices on DAB pages. Narky Blert (talk) 21:07, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

  I take it you want it done now? In that case I would suggest you starting the discussion and I'll take care of the tagging. --Trialpears (talk) 21:12, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

  @Trialpears: 10:20 PM, so too late for me today. I'll do them tomorrow (in two batches, because of the TFD limit of 50 per group), and {{ping}} you when I've posted them at TFD. Narky Blert (talk) 21:23, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

  Alright! The 50 page limit isn't really a big problem as you can just add a temporary extra header when closing so if it would unnaturally fracture discussions I would just keep them all in one section. --Trialpears (talk) 21:34, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

  @Trialpears: All now listed at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 June 23#EditNotices on DAB pages (batch 2) and Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 June 23#EditNotices on DAB pages (batch 3). Feel free to merge; but the discussion texts are very short. Courtesy ping to WikiCleanerMan. Thanks, Narky Blert (talk) 12:14, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

June thanks

Thank you for improving articles in June, with some impressions of places, flowers and music for you. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:51, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: In return, some Rossini and some Wolf (with its wonderful little waltz fragment). Narky Blert (talk) 21:06, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

Cute, thank you! - In return, another related animal --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:24, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: But would the Wälsungen have approved?

"Oh Senta, you've broken your vow!
I cannot believe it - just how
Could you flout Daland's wish? -
Go and swim with the fish!
I'm a Dutchman if I'll wed you now!"

My ambition to summarise all Wagner's operas in limerick form may never be fulfilled. Narky Blert (talk) 21:43, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Which Wälsungen? Siegmund und Sieglinde saw only each other. "Mr. and Mrs. Wotan have an argument." (Anna Russell - in case you don't know) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:47, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Anna Russell is brilliant.

I remember a BBC Radio 3 broadcast of the Ring (in the 70s or 80s?), in which each opera was introduced and its plot explained by - Alberich, Hunding, Mime and Hagen.

I've never been able to find the recording I once heard of "The Valkyries' Handicap", an excited horserace commentary ("and each maiden has a dead warrior slung over her saddle!"). Narky Blert (talk) 22:30, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Do you know the Fauré/Messager "Souvenirs de Bayreuth"? I can only imagine that they were trying to get banned from visiting the Festspielhaus ever again. Narky Blert (talk) 14:48, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

no ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:51, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

Tokusatsu

Remember the vandal inserting random wikilinks in Tokusatsu sections a few years ago? I've stumbled across more of their handiwork in Special:Contributions/240F:CA:EA:1::/64. There may be other IPs. I've fixed a few and can probably do the rest semi-automatically, but not tonight. Certes (talk) 00:49, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

I do indeed: Wikipedia:Edit filter/Requested/Archive 14#Excessive and irrelevant linking, even down to syllables of words and User talk:Narky Blert#Disabled filter 1010. Your find is in the same range and must have been missed. Fortunately, it's stale (nothing since October 2020). Narky Blert (talk) 07:42, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointers. I've fixed what I can. Most pages have been edited dozens of times since, so "undo" is problematic. What remains is harmless overlinking of common terms such as Banana. I don't see any recent additions. Certes (talk) 11:53, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

RfC notice

This is a neutral notice sent to all non-bot/non-blocked registered users who edited Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics in the past year that there is a new request for comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics § RfC: Where should so-called voiceless approximants be covered?. Nardog (talk) 10:55, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

@Nardog: Thanks for the ping. I'll pass - my only contributions to that page have been to ask for help. Narky Blert (talk) 11:04, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Une vendetta

Hi, you created this page tagging it as a redirect, but it seems you forgot to create the redirect itself. I've fixed it now with what appears to be the target you intended, so this is just a reminder to take care to avoid such mistakes. — Smjg (talk) 14:52, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

@Smjg: Thanks - A Vendetta is the intended target. (Not sure what happened there, the page as you found it was indeed less than helpful.) Narky Blert (talk) 14:57, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

August thanks

August songs

Thank you for dab help and music pointers! My 12th today, DYK? I decorated, also for a birthday. Songs invite to more music, places, food and flowers. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:06, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Bravo!

Do you know this cycle? I think it's rather charming. There's a lot of good little-known British song from the first quarter of the twentieth century.

Some years ago, I heard a broadcast masterclass; I forget who by; a baritone I think. A young tenor gave a stunning performance of Bridge's "Love Went A-Riding". The great man heard him out in silence, and then reconstructed the interpretation bar-by-bar. After 15 minutes, he burst into laughter and said, "Well, at least I got you to sing it differently".

Later this week, I will be promoted to Auspicious Looshpah . It's remarkable how many edits you can make if you concentrate on fixing small errors. Narky Blert (talk) 15:14, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, - no I don't know that cycle. Will love to get to know it, but was just called to task about neglected work. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:22, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: My Oath, but the script in the photo of the plaque at Idstein is difficult to read! Where are the words from? They aren't the same as Psalm 45:11-12 in the Lutherbibel. Narky Blert (talk) 16:16, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know what Bible translation they used, or perhaps inscripted what they knew from memory (or not). - Today: 2 interesting DYK (I think), sadly 2 who died (on top of 2 from Poland yesterday), and a concert in which Daniel Barenboim just played piano, - and afterwards he and the orchestra received last year's prize (pictured). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:09, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: In music based on writings by the class of people who T. S. Eliot called "Lords of Language" (who could seemingly do anything with words), there is Shakespeare (well out in front), followed by Goethe and Pushkin, and Dante is almost nowhere at all (Liszt twice, Francesca da Rimini a few times, Gianni Schicchi; and that's about it). He may even be behind Virgil (Les Troyens), but probably ahead of Chaucer. Narky Blert (talk) 22:09, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

... and let's not forget that Gianni Schicchi is based on just two lines by Dante ;) - Most of the text of Conchetti's Inferno is by Dante (translated for the spoken parts). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:17, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Today: 3 DYK, including that the author dedicated a summer story to a license plate number ;) - Five rows of images added, sunflowers and butterflies continued, four rows of 15 August alone, - a rich Monteverdi day, - enjoy! - Sorry, it was too rich to look for the Bible translation. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:22, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: I've recently been listening to quite a lot of another classical tradition, the pibroch; it may be my Scottish ancestry.

Pibroch is a variation form; with much subtlety, considering that it's based on a pentatonic scale with limited harmony and no dynamics. The story goes, that seven of Padruig Mór MacCrimmon's eight sons died of smallpox within a year, and that as a result he composed The Lament for the Children. Narky Blert (talk) 21:23, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Atonement

As you doubtless already know... I stole your joke (off-wiki)! El_C 18:04, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Argh, and I stole that image from CAPTAIN RAJU — damn, the Captain's looking fine. El_C 18:11, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

@El C: Kelvin Mackenzie on Frank Pilkington, I think - but I only have non-WP:RS sources, and we live and die by those. Narky Blert (talk) 18:57, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

@El C: Off-topic, and why not? In the early 60s, JLH toured the UK, playing with whatever backing bands he could find. In Scotland - "I'm John Lee Hooker, the bluesman". "I'm Alex Harvey, and hoo are ye?" "I'm John Lee Hooker, the bluesman - and don't you be asking me again."

JLH could play slow blues like no other. Narky Blert (talk) 19:11, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh, a true story? Sweet. Yes, so true. In other news, I'm also B.B. King's brother (in the blues). You might come from Oklahoma, Narky Blert, but I'm from Mobile. El_C 20:06, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

@El C: Ah yes, Mobile - famed in song and story (mainly song).

I knew a mod on another site who was born and grew up there; a bit younger than I am. After talking it through, we agreed that she'd probably never pulled beer in the places I used to frequent. Anyway, in the early 60s, she was standing at a checkout and offered a sweetie to a little boy her own age. How was she supposed to know that was wrong? Bad parenting, I suppose.

In the early 80s, I lost a springbar from my watchstrap. I hit the Yellow Pages, and found a jeweller (clearly a European immigrant), who sold me a replacement for something like 10¢. It was broad day, and there was no-one around; but I felt unsafe walking from and to my car.

It was also at that time that an area manager at the plant I was visiting dropped the N-bomb. I wasn't senior enough to do more than say, "Oh, really?"

I have mixed feelings about the place, and never did find the club they call Big Jack's. Narky Blert (talk) 22:07, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

I presume that by N-bomb you mean Neutron bomb, so by going nuclear, you've already won my heart. To that: Anton Petrov, if you read this... I love you, marry me! (and he links to Wikipedia, too, my man!). Anyway, I met [seen] my first black person when I was like 7 (my mom's friend from university, originally from Kenya). To her credit (and speaking of atonment), she took my racist staring and glaring quite well... Back to Alabama (where the skies are so blue and the governor's true), I've had some good times there, myself. Folks were super-friendly. Of course, broken-English moi, what wasn't there to love? El_C 00:11, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Rene Gonzalez Architects Page

Hi there, thank you for reviewing and editing this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rene_Gonzalez_Architects

Since you seem to have a lot more experience editing Wiki than me, I'm wondering if you know why the page doesn't appear as a result when doing a Google search. I was trying to find it recently to show it to a friend and was surprised to see it not appear as a result. Is there an issue with the page itself or perhaps a setting I chose that is preventing it from appearing? Any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks! macgirl (talk) 17:19, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

@Macgirl: I didn't review the page (which BTW looks good), just fixed an ambiguous link - that's what I do.

I blame Google. It's usually a safe bet. Nobody knows how their algorithm works. I couldn't get them to find it either, even by typing in the full name + wikipedia. You may need more pageviews; give it time. I suspect you're being swamped by views of the firm's own site.

Other search engines are available. DuckDuckGo turns up a link to your article in this search result, in their infobox about the firm (which is where you want it to be); though not in the main body of the search (not near the top, anyway).

I've added a hatnote field to René González, which may point more traffic your way. Yrs, Narky Blert (talk) 18:06, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into it! I was genuinely puzzled but that makes sense (pageviews). Hopefully it will start appearing soon. Thanks again! :) macgirl (talk) 18:35, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguation of link to crash program in SAM-N-2 Lark‎ article

We seem unable to communicate thru the edit summaries of our recently reverted edits to SAM-N-2 Lark. Why are you inappropriately linking a disambiguation page where the link should go directly to the explanatory article crash program? I hope you will desist from this edit warring if you simply follow the link in question before reverting my edits. Thewellman (talk) 00:14, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

@Thewellman: My apologies! You are correct. When I first came across the target article, crash program was of course a redirect. Narky Blert (talk) 06:57, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

No worries. I suggest considering the possibility the error program being used, or the response to flagged errors, may be inconsistent with WP:Iar. Specifically, numerous articles, often tagged with the disambiguation template, but usually lacking the (disambiguation) suffix to their title, consist of a broad definition followed by something resembling a See Also list of organizations, songs, books, movies, games, or consumer products using some variation of that name. In many cases, articles are linking this page for the definition, while users are finding the page while searching for information on one of the commercial uses of that title. I value the work being done to satisfy this functional duplicity while standardizing the disambiguation format, but Wikipedia's fluid status increases the difficulty of sequencing corrective actions. Exercising some level of WP:Iar review of computer flagged articles prior to corrective action may reduce editorial conflict.

Thank you for your exceptional efforts to improve Wikipedia. Thewellman (talk) 20:27, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

@Thewellman: {{dn}} tags rarely specify the attempted DABfixer's motives, which can range between "maybe a specialist knows what this means" and "is this topic actually notable?" or "is this information correct?" One of the classes in between is, "we don't seem to have a relevant article"; and one of the best results is that the article gets written. I've written a couple to solve such problems, and you've just written another. (I can confirm that crash programme is a well-known term in UK.) Best, Narky Blert (talk) 21:45, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

August 2021 - AfD discussion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the articles Boomtown 2019 and Boomtown 2020 are suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether they should be deleted.

The articles will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Boomtown 2019 until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the articles during the discussion, including to improve them to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notices from the tops of the articles.

~dom Kaos~ (talk) 09:57, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

Thank You

Thanks for your activity. This helped me lot. Jino Tom Issac (talk) 07:52, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

RFC: Pending-changes protection of Today's featured article

Per your request at WP:CR, notifying you of closure. - jc37 02:18, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh thank goodness. PC + High activity = very bad idea. El_C 19:28, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

@El C: See User talk:Sdkb/Archive 5#Short-term protection of TFA - help requested. Narky Blert (talk) 19:35, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

I'm not a big fan of PC, in general, but upon further thought, maybe with so many eyes on it, it wouldn't be chasing/losing revisions like other active PC'd pages that aren't watched so much...? Honestly, not sure I have decent metric to tell, so maybe I mis-spoke. El_C 19:41, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

I should note that when I see a TFA posted on RfPP, I always semi it without exception (preemptive requests not included). El_C 19:53, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

@El C: Last February, there seemed to be PP requests for TFA at ANI every other day; though they seem to have stopped recently. (It's difficult to track RFPP requests, because they get deleted rather than archived.) Most junk added to TFA is deleted very quickly (and if an article has gone through TFA, who's improving it anyway?); but I found a couple of real horrors which had stayed on our front page for over half-an-hour. Having floated this madcap idea, I'd like to see it through, whatever the result.

A folksong for you. Narky Blert (talk) 19:56, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Actually, no longer a rolling archive — behold Wikipedia:Requests for page protection/Archive. ToBeFree deserves awards! El_C 20:27, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

😂 the never-ending story. It will take years for everyone to notice the new RFPP structure, let alone the archive. That's not bad, as complaints slowly arrive over time rather than in hundreds a day. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:25, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Credit for creating that archive, by the way, goes to Cyberpower678 through Cyberbot I. All I did in this regard is nagging for this to happen, again and again, and prettifying the resulting title page. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:36, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Right, damn my memory is for shit. Sorry, Cyberpower678, for stealing your thunder (and giving it to ToBeFree) On the plus side, ‎Example Article Name = endless comedy. El_C 21:57, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

El C, that's OK, you can buy me a beer, some cookies, and maybe even a 'crat nomination. :p —CYBERPOWER (Message) 22:53, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Cyberpower678, most definitely, rounds are on me, all night long. BTW, Cyberbot I's has been growing plumped on the many treats I've been giving it. Hope that's okay, its your pet after all. El_C 23:17, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

I rely on Somebody "Notme" Else for things like that. Narky Blert (talk) 04:59, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Cue obligatory I'm someone else! –spam. El_C 13:04, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Heh, I deserved that. El_C 20:27, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

BBCucking it up

Just watched the pilot for Vigil (police procedural on a nuclear sub). I liked it. El_C 19:30, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

@El C: Conspiracy theorists were all over the shop when Gaul was lost in 1974, and for some years after. Could be the basis for a good miniseries. Narky Blert (talk) 20:52, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

For sure. In this series, though, they're, like, we're in British territorial waters, so we're gonna to let the Met handle a suspicious death aboard a nuclear sub (lol!). But it's actually well done. Recommended. El_C 21:13, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

The favourite theories were (i) kidnapped by the Russians and (ii) dragged under by a nuclear sub tangled in her nets. I don't think alien abduction was suggested, but I could be wrong.

And of course the Scots would call in the Met - if the RN didn't first. Narky Blert (talk) 05:07, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Of course! Of course, that if anyone could comprehend said call ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Got episode 2 queued up, btw... El_C 11:26, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Call that an accent? My father was a Glaswegian, and taught me an expression he'd picked up in the Army - "Twa the bonne aff n pu the heid in im." (Translation: Take his bonnet off and headbutt him (because you've sewn broken safety razor blades under the band around yours).)

His niece (who's lived in Paris for 40-odd years) once visited, and he asked if she'd lost her accent. He could decipher about one word in three of her reply. Narky Blert (talk) 12:35, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Nice! It's like a different language. And then, of course, there's feeding the family ham to (a most noble albeit drunken pursuit). Whenever I visited family in England, I was mostly just in, well, England, so sadly I didn't get to meet many Scotts (or Welsh). But there's still time! El_C 12:52, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

@El C: Having finally got off my arse and signed up to iPlayer, a couple of things struck me. Unless the RN has changed a lot, their captains (and those of most navies, with the notable exception of some but not all officers of the Kriegsmarine) have always risked their ships to save lives. The scene is which the cop is given confidential files reminded me of the one in Reefer Madness in which an FBI agent cheerfully hands over such files to a civilian. Still, these things keep the plot moving... Narky Blert (talk) 20:21, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Exactly, it's dumb fun. But they manage to pull it off for the lulz suspense. Are you caught up? Ep 4 ended on quite a cliffhanger, albeit an especially beyond-implausible one. El_C 20:47, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

@El C: One ep/day. Ep 2, so now getting the Markov/Litvinenko vibes. Boy, the writers know their shit!

No, I don't think the Met was called in, but the Scottish police. I'm pinning my hopes on a mention of the procurator fiscal.

I can confirm that "scran" is good NW (and probably also RN) English, and that "all right?" as a greeting/acknowledgment is good Midlands and NW (and probably also Scottish) English.

The CPR in ep1 was rubbish (if you don't risk breaking ribs, you're not doing it properly), and the lifesaving in ep2 ditto.

The flashbacks and sceneshifts take some untangling, but it's all good clean fun. Narky Blert (talk) 22:11, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

You're right, it was Police Scotland, not the Met. Anyway, I like subs! Just by sheer happenstance, I started re-reading Mishka Ben David's The Shark, today, which is very technical. And then nukes get detonated! Over major cities!!! It isn't available in English, though, I don't think. Anyway, let me know when you're caught up with the latest episode. El_C 02:28, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

@El C: Das Boot meets The Wire meets...

Shaun Evans has toned down his Scouse accent for comprehensibility, I could do with a northeastener on board - larn yersel Geordie! (I can make out better than 95% of that; I don't fancy your chances at all).

Mitchell and Webb were also very good on gluten. Narky Blert (talk) 19:25, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

@El C: Ep 4. Does the beardy guy with the semi-Afro usually seen sitting behind a computer remind you of Lester Freamon?

My OWN and this is MY VERY OWN conspiracy theory - if a British sub commander ever presses the GO! stud on a Trident missile - nothing will happen at its destination unless someone in the Pentagon has turned the relevant switch. Remind me who supplied those missiles. Independent deterrent? natch... Narky Blert (talk) 22:12, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Maybe a younger Freamon (who has seen a lot less action). Heh. Israel for example, didn't need to do shit. The French just took am to the test sites, shared all the detonation data with them, etc., then Israel was, like, merci, we can take it from here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ El_C 22:19, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

@El C: Ep 5, getting a bit black.

I'm rewatching Das Boot. I can't find a version with subs. My German isn't too bad, but mixtures of accents and dialects in a single scene make heavy going. It captures the essence of those noisy, oily, stinking, cramped, claustrophobic and downright unsafe tin cans, and of the men who manned them.

In 1943, an RAF plane encountered a U-boat off West Africa. The sources are crap - only one matters, it's WP:PRIMARY, and I haven't been able to find it. This is my reading of what happened. The German deck gunners were good; they'd scared off a US plane the week before. This time, they scored a hit, and set one engine afire. The pilot completed his turn into his bombing run, and attacked on a zero deflection course. As he dropped his depth charges, the Germans were firing directly upwards through the bomb bay doors. The sub's hull was cracked in two places, and it rapidly sank. And we wouldn't know even that, except by luck. A handful of sailors managed to get out, and make use of an inflatable dinghy which had broken loose from the bomber as it crashed. They were rescued by the RN a day or so later.

Not everyone who served in the Kriegsmarine was a sociopathic Nazi. There is a British and Commonwealth decoration open to all ranks, which can only be awarded on the witness of an officer of field rank or equivalent. One of those rescued was the German commander, Oberleutnant zur See Klemens Schamong. And that's why it's Lloyd Trigg VC. Narky Blert (talk) 22:34, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, that's a tight spot! I wonder how she'll deus ex machina her way out of that one.

There's a ton of English subs (subs!) for Das Boot — for eg., yts-subs.com/movie-imdb/tt0082096 isn't too spammy, so hopefully, one of those will sync right. A masterpiece that's definitely worth rewatching.

Interesting bit of history there. Indeed, the details of so many of these wartime encounters are hazy and challenging to verify. Even famous ones, like the capture of Tiger 131. Subrelated, a couple of months ago, I saw Fredrik Knudsen's docu on the Battle of May Island (YouTube link). Definite recommend. El_C 23:02, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

@El C: I'm wondering if they're going to spring a Wicker Man denouement on us? (Note to self - check Wicker Man for bad links.)

Thanks for the Das Boot link, but I couldn't find a single operational sub there - either a link was dead, or it wanted me to download something I didn't want to download. I'll just have to tune my ears into the German.

I hadn't heard of May Island; it's the sort of thing navies tend not to talk about. In the early years of C20, there was a widespread feeling that this newfangled radio thingy was no match for the proven techniques of semaphore and Aldis lamps. Compare Honda Point (docu).

Even though WP:NSOLDIER has been deprecated, IMO there is a small number of decorations which guarantee WP:N - and let WP:BIO1E be damned! - usually individually, but sometimes collectively, as in Battle of Saragarhi. As well as the VC, I'll mention the Medal of Honor (even though both were sometimes handed out like sweeties in C19) and the Italian Gold Medal of Military Valour. (The Germans tended to prioritise quantity over quality, and the egalitarian French to spread awards widely; my late father was a Chevalier de Legion d'Honneur, basically for having landed in Normandy and survived into the 2000s.) (In 2018, I wrote an article about a recipient of that Gold Medal, and it got 3,400 views on the front page. Today, he was declared Venerable, one more step towards being acknowledged as a saint. I think that may be a unique double distinction. I abandoned a WP:GA proposal, because the reviewer wanted English sources, and didn't like my use of semicolons.)

It's notorious that almost any Nazi tracked vehicle in Normandy was identified as a Tiger. I can't stand Jeremy Clarkson, but this docu is very good. Narky Blert (talk) 17:48, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

I'll never tell! But all's well that ends [that's it, that's the end of the sentence], on the Vigil front. Now started watching Furia (2021, 8 episodes), no wiki page: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11204154/, because... Norway for some reason, and German election somehow (++ topical).

I found Knudsen explanations, both on the technical front and on the RN politics one, quite illuminating. So, yeah, another good docu from Buzz Knudson's estranged cousin (probably).

Heh, I'm sort of afraid to even look at my old timey articles. Many of them are basically argumentative essays.¯\_(ツ)_/¯ El_C 23:28, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

@El C: Aargh, not a spoiler! Though I did suspect it was going to be more Perils of Pauline (where everyone did their own stunts) than Wicker Man (which had only had 4 bad links; I thought there might have been more). An attempted "maximally destructive self-terminating improvisation" - I don't think Doward'll be back.

There was some lazy writing towards the end, but defo worth watching. There was some very good acting in minor roles. (I remember having to keep reminding myself that Maury Levy was portrayed by an actor.)

I now have a working link with subs (2 of them at the spot I've got to) for Das Boot. Things like "GERMAN MAN TALKING" could be improved upon, as could some of the translations of rude words and insults, and I had to switch to a browser with a better adblocker to spare myself the repeated sight of Anna's 37yo buttocks; but it's all good.

Many of my oldest articles really ought to be WP:BLARed. Narky Blert (talk) 17:27, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

What, that was the end of that

Thankfully, some kind souls took pity on my Nothing comes from nothing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ El_C 17:41, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

@El C: There was a to-me surprising omission in that article, after 17 years at 170 views/day.

I'm rather proud of the fact that one of my articles has been upgraded to C-class, and attracted all of 208 views over the last year. Narky Blert (talk) 18:14, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

This month, I beat the Hebrew Wikipedia to Israel Shield! El_C 19:16, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

@El C: Applause! It took me ages to {{ill}} link to an RTL language.

On a sidenote, and mounting my hobbyhorse - when I come across a good editor the WP in whose mothertongue is mediocre, I encourage them to edit there also. Any fool can edit English WP (and many of them do). How else will the project expand unless people can first read and then write in their mothertongue? In four years of trying, I have never once linked to, nor found useful info in, Hindi Wikipedia. And as for Mizo Wikipedia (837k native speakers, almost as many as Welsh, and four times as many as Breton), forget it - it doesn't exist. Even if a language starts off as blog quality, once it takes off it will attract admins who will drag the standard up. Not every WP needs to have 100k+-long articles on major subjects; but at the very least they could and should be world-class on topics of local importance. Narky Blert (talk) 20:10, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Trust me, the Hebrew Wikipedia does not need my help. It is very vibrant and has been so since its inception. Their founder is a really nice guy, btw. I've had some good chats with him back in the day. Anyway, the Israel Shield page is just one of those mysteries (as you can see, several more ancillary -related pages already exist on .he, a few probably not worthy of being ill'd, but I still l'd!). So, I'd say 99 percent of the time, the article already exists in Hebrew and I translate/write it in English rather than the other way around. El_C 20:48, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

@El C: It's a lot easier if you can start an enwiki article from one in the base language.

I treat {{ill}} links indifferently as "this needs translating" and "you can find more information here". If someone puts the work in, an ill link to a NN subject can always be downgraded to ([[:xx:FizBuz|xx]]). (I loathe [[:xx:FizBuz|FizBuz]] WP:EASTEREGG links like the plague.)

hewiki is good, but limited. It's almost useless on birthplaces in eastern Europe. I do, however, know an expert editor on Judaism, who has helped me more than once.

My least pleasant experience (by some way) on WP was addressing a long-standing DABlink to a place in modern Belarus; and then another; and then a third - one after the other. I nailed them all through multilingual searching, even though all that survives of one of them is a memorial stone flat in the ground. Then I took an hour off. Narky Blert (talk) 21:33, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

For sure. Unlike in the pre-2010s, nowadays, the pages these ills lead to can basically be read by way of insta-machine translation (not read perfectly, but enough to get the gist of it, at least).

Now reading a Hebrew translation of Gerald Durrell's The Drunken Forest. It's a 1963 print, so the pages are basically turning to dust, so... added charm? El_C 22:18, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

@El C: Not in all scripts. My favourite example of Google Translate from Japanese WP ran "My wife, Mr X, is an imposter." I could think of no way to improve on that.

I grew up on Gerald Durrell. That article's a bit thin. If you've read My Family and Other Animals, the article on Theodore Stephanides might interest you. Narky Blert (talk) 22:36, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Maybe that translation robot likes playing Among Us on the side...?

Alas, I am bound to the semi-randomness of my library — half personally selected, half inherited. El_C 14:50, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

@El C: I'd forgotten the denouement of Das Boot; but for some time I'd been getting "Call me Ishmael" "I only am escaped alone to tell thee" vibes - though with a less mad captain, and no-one nailing a seagull to the mast.

One thing that film left out was the chemical reaction lead-acid batteries + seawater → chlorine. Very nasty. Narky Blert (talk) 21:23, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nominations open

Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are now open. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting doesn't commence until 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:59, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Trelawney

Narky Blert, if you could do the round-robin swap to make Trelawny the basename, I will do the clean-up. Thanks, Leschnei (talk) 12:50, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

@Leschnei: Apologies for the delay, a combination of tiredness and PC problems. I've resurrected an old machine with a very sick keyboard; I'm having to use workarounds for all sorts of keys. Trelawny is now the basename, and Trelawney redirects to it. Let me know if anything else needs swapping.

I've noticed that that makes Trelawny the basename in all Western languages, which is for the good - see wikidata:Q2451262 Yrs, Narky Blert (talk) 17:52, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

@Narky Blert:, sorry about the computer - such a hassle! I've finished the split; thanks again for the help, Leschnei (talk) 18:49, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election nomination period closing soon

Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election are still open, but not for long. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! No further nominations will be accepted after that time. Voting will commence on 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:43, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history coordinator election voting has commenced

Hey y'all, voting for the 2021 Wikiproject Military history coordinator tranche is now open. This is a simple approval vote; only "support" votes should be made. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2021. Voting will be conducted at the 2021 tranche page itself. Appropriate questions for the candidates can also be asked. Thanks, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:39, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

"Even Steven (song)" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Even Steven (song). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 September 17#Even Steven (song) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 11:35, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

@Shhhnotsoloud: WP:G7ed, and *poof!* Narky Blert (talk) 18:15, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

That's the way to do it ;-) Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 18:23, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

@Shhhnotsoloud: There's a legend that you can't call yourself "Professor" until you've accidentally swallowed a swazzle at least twice. Narky Blert (talk) 18:38, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

"Science magazine" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Science magazine. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 September 20#Science magazine until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Retroflexivity (talk) 04:22, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Wikiproject Military history coordinator election voting period closing soon

Hey y'all, voting for the 2021 Wikiproject Military history coordinator tranche will be closing soon. This is a simple approval vote; only "support" votes should be made. Project members should vote for any candidates they support by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September 2021. Voting will be conducted at the 2021 tranche page itself. Thanks, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:33, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Paladin

Thanks for creating Paladin (trilobite). The redirect assisted efforts in the prehistoric life of BPAT such as this. I'll see if I can dig out a fuller list of likely bad targets from that exercise. Certes (talk) 21:18, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

@Certes: Aargh. Assembling the bare bones of that article verged on the trivial; but identifying the authorities was anything but (we've been there before), creating 26 redirects and 2 DAB pages was mind-numbing, and I still have some loose ends to tidy up from species:Paladin. Narky Blert (talk) 21:40, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

There were quite a lot of bad links over the whole series of articles by state and era, e.g. List of the Cenozoic life of Texas. Incidentally, I always thought of this as a perfect facepalm. Certes (talk) 21:57, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

@Certes: I've seen a fair number of those US lists, but have never done more than the multitudinous links incarnadine, making the orange ones red.

What were FIFA thinking of? Narky Blert (talk) 22:15, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

help for Draft:Calabrian cuisine

Good evening from Coreca, Calabria. I am writing to thank you for your intervention regarding Draft: Calabrian cuisine, I am writing to you if you can help me improve it and translate it well and in perfect English. Of course if I can do something for you in Sicilian wiki with my Calabrian variant, or in the Neapolitan wiki. If you can and want, could you also give me a little view of Coreca? For the rest, waiting to hear from you, thank you, greet and respect. See you soon and thanks.--Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 16:53, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

@Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino: Ciao! It's much easier to write in your mother tongue than in another language.

I recommend a modern version of an old trick from the days of paper dictionaries. Use Google Translate, or some other computer program, to translate from Italian into English; then take the result and feed it back in the other direction. If that double translation makes sense in Italian, then the English version probably makes sense also. (There's a tale that in the very earliest days of machine translation, people would translate from English into Russian and back as a test. The proverb "out of sight, out of mind" came back as "invisible idiot" - which isn't quite the same thing.) Don't worry about being word- and grammar-perfect. If the meaning is clear, other editors will make the small improvements.

Don't translate the Italian names of dishes, there will rarely be an exact equivalent in English (the English for pasta is ... pasta, not paste). However, it can be useful to translate the individual words and include them in parentheses, e.g. Maccarruni ca sarsa (English: "macaroni [*if that's the right word*] with sauce"). (That sounds very like makaronia salsa, which I ate many times in Greece 50 years ago as a poverty-stricken student - but Greek: μακαρόνι(α) includes spaghetti, macaroni, and other varieties of long pasta.)

Your draft looks good, except where it needs translation. Feel free to ask for help. When you post it, make an Interwiki link to it:Cucina calabrese, and add {{translated page}} to the Talk Page. If needed, I could assist.

If you would like to help improve Neapolitan WP, you could translate my article Filippo Illuminato; it's more complete than it:Filippo Illuminato. Another article is Saint Dominic in Soriano, which doesn't exist in standard Italian or in any dialect. Ciao, Narky Blert (talk) 18:10, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

help for Dado Coletti

Hello, I have read the previous discussion and see what I can do with regards to Calabrian cuisine. Now, I ask you a small favor, could you help me to prevent the page from deleting? I'm a little bit rusty when it comes to English Wiki policies, could you update me and help out? I trust you and your wisdom, these days I start translating the articles into Neapolitan, I hope we can collaborate as soon as possible. waiting to hear you thank you and greet you.--Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 14:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

@Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino: Ciao! It isn't easy to find WP:Reliable sources about him, so the article might have difficulty if listed at WP:Articles for deletion. However, I've added one good source (from RAI), and that is sufficient to permit me to remove the {{Prod BLP}} tag. Narky Blert (talk) 15:10, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Format of authority on Cuphea ignea

On Cuphea ignea the authority is given as A. DC.. I presume this should be Augustin Pyramus de Candolle but I didn't know if the specific way of presenting this is appropriate. Could you take a look?— Rod ^talk 15:19, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

@Rodw: You're right. The existing redirect A.DC. would have done the trick, but I piped it for good measure - why puzzle readers? Narky Blert (talk) 15:26, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious

Five years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:29, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: W. B. Yeats' poem "Aedh Wishes for the Cloths of Heaven" set by Thomas Dunhill - The Cloths of Heaven, with Janet Baker and Martin Isepp. Narky Blert (talk) 11:35, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

How lovely, poetry and music and singing and dreams. Se my talk for colours today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:42, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Saints

I noticed your appropriate nomination of Saints, but its RfD entry seems to have turned into a pumpkin. Certes (talk) 21:53, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

@Certes: Try again, I got hit with an {{ec}} (or perhaps a pumpkin). Now that someone has kindly cleaned out what was left of Reformed (see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 October 20#Reformed), my conscience is more-or-less clear in making this nomination. (Pumpkins are so yesterday - this nomination is for today.)

For the best use I've seen for pumpkins, My new Trebuchet!!. Narky Blert (talk) 22:10, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I've had similar problems when nominating a clutch of redirects: people !vote while I'm trying to consolidate them into one easy discussion. Saints is one of the few plurals I watch without a Saints (rugby) or similar qualified redirect to a team. I see you've tagged The Saints which correctly redirects to a dab. Certes (talk) 22:24, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

@Certes: My record for failing to get an XFD to post is something like 13 or 14; IIRC it was an AFD. I routinely add {{R ambig}} or {{R from incomplete disambiguation}} tags to redirects which turn up in DPwL; IMO, every redirect to a DAB page which isn't {{R to disambiguation page}} should be tagged one or the other; anything else (other than those very-necessary history tags) is frippery. Narky Blert (talk) 22:41, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

"Derner (disambiguation)" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Derner (disambiguation). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 November 9#Derner (disambiguation) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Estopedist1 (talk) 09:15, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of West Africans (disambiguation)

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on West Africans (disambiguation) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G14 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a disambiguation page which either

• disambiguates only one extant Wikipedia page and whose title ends in "(disambiguation)" (i.e., there is a primary topic);
• disambiguates zero extant Wikipedia pages, regardless of its title; or
• is an orphaned redirect with a title ending in "(disambiguation)" that does not target a disambiguation page or page that has a disambiguation-like function.

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time. Please see the disambiguation page guidelines for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 19:29, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

@Shhhnotsoloud: Now an easy G14, ty. Narky Blert (talk) 20:13, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

@Shhhnotsoloud: If you come across any more redundant (disambiguation) redirects of mine, don't bother to notify, just G14 them, I'm never going to object (unless there's been a WP:HIJACK like this horror, which I'm keeping an eye on). (I pick up one or two G14s/missing {{other uses}} a day from WP:TDD#Today's highlights.) Narky Blert (talk) 19:51, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

That's great, Narky, thanks. In future I'll untick the Twinkle box. Regards, Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:05, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Help

Can you please add the photo of janglinath mahadev from Wiki commons to the Lakhahi Raj page in janglinath Mahadev's column.

I don't know that how to add Please add I will be thankful to you for this help 2409:4063:4D1A:2287:0:0:E648:4F08 (talk) 17:06, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Can you give me links to the picture and to the target page? Narky Blert (talk) 17:23, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

November thanks

November songs

Thank you for stories on my talk, and a wealth of music to listen to! The memory of SlimVirgin is pictured again, in the context about my dangerous thoughts about arbcom. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:47, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

ps: do you plan to take Belsky to DYK? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:47, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: - no, I've used up my five free submissions, and have no time for reviewing. But if you'd like to, please do so. (I had the satisfaction of finding that photo and adding it to all the other languages.) Narky Blert (talk) 16:52, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:59, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, too "old". Next time, please tell me a little sooner, like 3 days after creation. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:01, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: You might enjoy the photographs in the Mariinsky citation in Belsky's article (#1 under Further reading) - those costumes!

I've realised that I've known bits of Sadko for most of my life - Dad had a 78 with the Songs of the Indian and Viking Guests.

From the little I know of Rimsky's operas, they deserve a wider hearing in the West. The Astrologer in The Golden Cockerel announces that the tale contains a moral. Indeed it does, and a rather pointed one - the censors must have been asleep.

Not for the last time in Russia. For me, one of the great tingle moments in C20 music is just before the end of Shostakovich 10, when you realise that the previous hour has been building and building towards this instant when the heavy brass spit DSCH into Stalin's and the apparatchiks' faces. I imagine the latter just sat there and applauded, oblivious. Narky Blert (talk) 20:54, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Re: Alumni Cantabrigienses

Hello, Narky Blert. You have new messages at KenBailey's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

New message from Chess

 You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Centre for Research in Neurodegenerative Diseases. This is because you seconded my previous PROD on the page. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 04:38, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

My misunderstanding

Hi Narky Blert. I'd like to get your advice. Hope you don't mind me asking you here, it's just I see your (very memorable) name doing DAB tasks, a lot, and hoped you could give me your thoughts. I was doing DABs for "self-contradiction", and one I changed, in the lead of oxymoron, a regular editor did not agree with and reverted (rather than finding a better link). That being the case, I thought it best to leave it in, but make it an intentional DAB with piped link, "self-contradiction (disambiguation)". Same editor reverted again and wants me to get consensus for it on talk page. I would be willing to do that, but just wondering whether I am missing something here? What would be objectional in this, or have I misunderstood? It seems such a routine change. I'm loathe to engage without knowing for sure, especially over such a minor thing, and I do not wish to step on toes. I could just leave it, but my slight obsession with neatness and DABs, makes my fingers itch to correct it! Hope you can advise. Many thanks. AukusRuckus (talk) 23:20, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

@AukusRuckus: Apologies for not replying earlier; I've been offline since a day or two before you posted. Am I right in thinking that you and the other editor did reach consensus on the Talk Page? If so, there's no need for me to stir the pot now. Happy gnoming! Narky Blert (alt) (talk) 07:43, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

@Narky Blert:. So good to see you back on board! No need to worry about that storm-in-a-teacup; you're right, we reached some sort of limping-along, more-or-less satisfactory conclusion.

After always seeing you so active around the traps on WP, I had started to imagine that a message from me was some sort spell to make stalwarts suddenly evaporate! No longer was the name "Narky Blert" sighted at many points. Later, of course, saw the news that you were in hospital. I hope you have made a good recovery and are now well - or at least far on the road to a full recovery. Very kind of you to reply, and thank you for your willingness to lend a hand. Keep well now, and I look forward to seeing you around lots, as normal! AukusRuckus (talk) 09:47, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

December opera

December songs

today an Italian opera, my second ever, as the TFA written by two dear people, and a park where I went with dear people, as pictured DYK --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:13, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

on Beethoven's birthday --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:46, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

A message from Narky Blert

A message from Narky Blert:

I’m in hospital and recovering but offline. Best wishes to my colleagues. Narky Blert. 82.132.247.115 (talk) 16:21, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

I'm very sorry to hear that but it sounds as if things are improving. We'll miss you, but please don't feel any pressure to return until you're fully fit. All the best for a speedy recovery. Certes (talk) 16:23, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Me too – very sorry to hear you're currently hors de combat but wishing you a fast and full recovery. Cheers DBaK (talk) 16:34, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Best wishes for a speedy recovery. El_C 14:33, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2022

	Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2022!!
	Hello Narky Blert, warm wishes to you and your family throughout the holiday season. May your heart and home be filled with all of the joys the festive season brings. Here is a toast to a Merry Christmas and prosperous New Year!. scope_creepTalk 01:19, 24 December 2021 (UTC)