User talk:Msrasnw/2013

Talkback

Hello, Msrasnw. You have new messages at Malik Shabazz's talk page.
Message added 11:03, 2 February 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Thanks for trying to prevent deletion of AVSIG page

Dear Msrasnw,

Thank you so much for trying to rescue the AVSIG page. It means a lot to a bunch of old General Aviation and airline pilots. Many do not realize it, but if it had not been for the ground work that AVSIG did in 1981-85 Wikipedia might not exist - ie for sure all the discussion/debate forums that are now on the internet. I remember when I worked for Compuserve as various AstSysops and Sysops, when ever the baud rate went up or some new item for forums they tested them on AVSIG. Many new managers, AstSysops and section leaders got their initial training by being assigned to AVSIG.

It seems for what ever reason that Bwilkins is the Darth Vader or forums (some disagree with me, but he seems to relish crushing new pages and their editors) and you are the St. Jude of forums. I tried to reason with Bwilkins and got a stern lecture. I told him I was moving the page to a sandbox and would work on it there and when I and others were finished he could be the judge of whether it should be posted. Also I asked him to go a little easy on the editor. He did not know is was considered spam to have the group as his screen name. To no avail.

When I worked for Compuserve and got what was called the b-flag (authority to lock people out) I was told to use it as little as possible and that they were watching me. I used it five times in about 15 years. And I was told to take care of those that had an unpopular view point from those that posted popular views.

Finally, I remember when I came to WP and did some editing. I broke about every rule that WP had then I accidentally made up some new rules to break. I had an electronic lynch mob after me. And many wanted me banned, then unbanned so they could ban me again! But a few editors realized I was not a vandal, but WP stupid, one of them was W.B. Wilson on general military articles, and the other was Bzuk on aviation. A DaveII85 was on general WP edict and rules. You are a lot like them, but what happen to the new editors with this Attila the Hun attitude. Bragging they are going to have 1000 edits in three months or get 100 articles deleted and be an administrator in a year? Again, win, loose or draw, thanks for being an old style editor -- Assuming Good Faith in horrible edits.

Jack E. Hammond

Dear Jack, thanks for your thanks. I share your exasperation with some of the behaviour of some of our fellow editors. I think we should try not to worry and stay calm and ignore any lack of civility - suffer fools gladly is something I want to try to do more of and wish others would do too! There are lots of guidelines on wp and I think they are basically reasonable and helpful so long as one is trying to produce something useful. However a problem is some administrators seem to me to have some strong views (at the edge or beyond what wp policy is) and these coupled with a tendancy to act very hasitly often outside their realms of knowledge and understanding lead to their making mistakes obvious to others - who may know more about particular topics. It is I think normal for those with powers who have exercised them to not like having their actions and views challenged and mistakes exposed by those who they look down on. Resulting rudeness is understandable in such cirumstances. Very few editors admit mistakes and change views once expressed (myself unfortunately included - but I am trying to adress this). Anway if one is really persistant and makes a serious effort to undertand wp policies one can normally protect useful content (like the little page on AVSIG) but sometimes it needs longer time and a new more informed audience. Anyway from someone who is also of advanced years my recommendation would be try to enjoy your editing and try to avoid getting sucked into unseemly quarrels (this is advice is something I write for myself as much as you). Anyway I am rambling - best wishes (Msrasnw (talk) 23:41, 14 February 2013 (UTC))

Dear Ms-nw,

I normally don't get involved in edit wars. As I have seen some WP editors spend hardly any time editing and all their time in edit wars. This is only the second time, and the other time was when an editor bragged on his WP page that he was in one year he was going to do 100 pages, 1000 edits and 1000 deletions before he became an administrator. Unfortunately on his march to Rome he was deleting my edits on aircraft where I used Google Books to research Popular Mechanics/Science. I posted the edits and citations from PM/PS magazines using Google Books and Bzuk cleaned the edits them up -- I am a terrible editor with the Three-Rs. If the future WP Ceasar had not been stopped, that action would have gutted thousands of edits on WP aircraft pages. Bzuk went to an adm. he knew while I kept him, occupied to keep him from deleting more entries till the adm. came over and told him "Hold on Trigger!" and set the record straight. This edit war I am now involved in, is not because I am a member of AVSIG, but because the AVSIG manager is a true gentleman. I have been working as a staff member for various forums from 1985-2007, when the famous Georgia Griffin put me in charge of the Compuserve's Issue Forum/S7 Defense section. I have seen various forum owners, managers, AstSysops, Sysops and Section Leaders in action. And most are fast to pull the trigger on the "How Dare YOU!" pistol. Not Mike. He is like me, and observe what Lincoln told Grant, when they knew the Southern armies would soon surrender, telling Grant and Sherman "Let'um down easy." But instead of just telling Mike "It sounds like you got a great forum, but WP is not the place for a page on AVSIG." He had to throw mud in his face. And when I tried to help him, let Mike down easy, I got a nasty lecture. And when I read his WP page, I understood he sort of enjoys it. And as they say, "That's my story and I'm sticking to it." (BTW, I am not being a smart a** but could I have a first name. It beats "Hey, YOU! <GRIN>

Jack E. Hammond

PS> That adm. is saying that Mike is trying to pack the court on the delete page with KEEPs. In fact he told everyone on AVSIG not to do that.

Oh dear - it is getting a bit more complex. I think I haven't helped so much and have been a bit unstrategic and not followed my own advice. I had thought I was being accused of COI and screwing up the article by editing but it might be you that is accuesd. Anyway unfortuantely for various reasons I'd rather just be "Dear Msrasnw". Sorry and best wishes and I hope the deletion and associated bad feeling will finish soon and I think AVSIG should be safe as we have enough notable reliable sources. But hope to bump into you again on here perhaps on creating more aeronautical pages. Best wishes Msrasnw (talk) 12:31, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

MSRASMW, I read you front page. Very good advise. And for BWilkiins, don't worry: it is him; not you causing the problem. I still never heard of copying a page to a sandboxes, screwing an article up! I think he sees PalmPilot900 as me, and as a sock puppet. You can check my account. I have no minus marks, not even a speedy deletion. I am usually asked to help fill a stump weapons article out: eg The French Army SAGAIE (that long barrel wheeled/armor vehicle in the news photos in Mali). They say ever writer has only so many good articles/books in him. I think I have reached that level lately; so if BWilkins has his revenge (he sees it as bringing order to WP from vandals and COI editors and editors who won't obey the rules, and brags he makes the hard blocks (read his front page) but it is revenge - He is mad, because he thinks I challenged him in public and made him look small -- although I do not see if that way) and he finds a way to block me, at least I am at the end of a good run on WP. First time I REALLY enjoyed writing articles, with out receiving praise/income or being noted, and I like it. Writing for the sake of writing, and having no dead lines. So don't worry. I will be OK. Jackehammond (talk) 19:06, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

MSRASMW, It is basically finished. I have a feeling BWilkins, wants as the price of removing that block, that Mike has to agree to have the AVSIG page deleted (no matter the vote), as the public price to show WP adm. he is really sorry. I hope he agrees to is. Having that AVSIG page would be nice, but not a 'hafta to have'. And no one will notice after a week he had to swallow his pride. Having MIKE back with his extensive knowledge of aerospace has always helped a lot of other WP editors.

I am glad that Mike is not like the WP adm. on AVSIG. I guess it is why it has about every private pilot, a lot of retired military pilot, and aviation history writer as members. A good clean place, with last and first name, no sniping and rules enforced evenly and fairly. Old Style Forum rules.

Jack E. Hammond

.

Hi I am not sure about this but I think the AVSIG page looks to me like it should be kept as I think there is now sufficient sourcing to establish notability via reliabe sources. Also at least part of the original nomination

("oldest continuously-operated online forum") is clearly not true, and the only sources is a user-editable 'pedia.

has been demonstrated to be mistaken and or made so by the extra sourcing. The extra sourcing was added after some of the deletes and so closing admins might well take this into account.

My guess is my contibution may have helped with the sourcing but have annoyed the deleting/blocking admin.

My suggestion is to be patient and wait for the Afd to close and then give Bwilkins a polite nudge asking about how the unblocking of Mike might be going or whether there is anything else he needs to do. Best wishes (Msrasnw (talk) 08:22, 19 February 2013 (UTC))

PS: I will perhaps try this after the Afd and perhaps also apologise to him/her as I was a bit rude. Best wishes (Msrasnw (talk))

Dear Msrasnw, The speedy deletion of the AVSIG page has been declined and there has been approval to unblock the pages editor and approval for him to have a different user names that is with in the rules. Thank you for any assistance in this matter, especially your advise for everyone to place emotions last and to be patient. Again, thank you. Jack E. HammondJackehammond (talk) 09:28, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Dear Jack, Yes I saw this. Things have worked out well and I hope Mr Overly will enjoy editing soon. It will be good to have another knowledgable editor working on aircraft related articles. Best wishes (Msrasnw (talk) 09:39, 24 February 2013 (UTC))

.

Teresa Maryańska

Msrasnw, you did a nice job protecting Teresa Maryańska from deletion. Your approach - keep adding sources until notability is established - is the way I like to work too, but in this case you had better access to sources. I think everyone wins when an AfD is decided this way. RockMagnetist (talk) 16:19, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Dear RockMagnetist, thanks for your note. I am not sure the approach I adopted is the right one and feel it annoys rather than convinces. I am not sure why it is people are so keen delete academics like Maryańska. Old, retired or very nearly retired, experts in their field but ones not based in the US/UK - Western Europe - are often more difficult to source and it seems easy to get them out on what I think are technicallities. A quick look for information gave me the impression that she was a retired or very nearly retired dinosaur expert who had contributed a lot - our encylopedia's use of her as a reference in lots of articles, although not one of our criteria is very useful as an indicator ([1]). Careful use of GS and Web of Konwledge seem much better than WoS with its short runs of some journals. (There was a systemtaic bias in these citation indices which although it is being overcome there is a clear lag in coverage which is very problematic). I am not a paleontologist and had only "studied" the subject deeply for around 3 years (from age 9-11 and even owned model protoceratops and ankylosaur) but distinctly remember the stuff about the then recent mongolian discoveries. (Yes an article on Dinosaur/Paleontological discoveries in the Gobi might be nice! ) I don't remember anything about the Polish contribution. My only sources were google scholar and google books (searching on Maryańska and doing a filter by date with "most recent first" - brought up the Feduccia ref that swung it for you) and a quick visit to another floor of our library to check The Dinosauria in particular the first edition was a nice trip and useful stuff on the hosrtory of dinosaur studies. Anyway I think we have in this case the right result in the offing but I am not sure why you (and Agricola44 and RayAYang) were resistant to accpeting that she might be a notable old academic but one on whom sources were difficult to come by. Benefit of the doubt => don't go for deletion? In short why did you want it deleting? Anyway best wishes and good luck with your rfa which I was thinking of voting:

strong support:but only so long as he doesn't try to delete anymore notable old dinosaur experts (or old experts of other kinds that I think are worth keeping!). :) (Msrasnw (talk) 10:12, 13 March 2013 (UTC))

I wouldn't say I was eager to delete her; I was happy enough that you managed to save the article. But I do struggle with the question of how much information is enough to justify a biography. I know someone who has an h-index of 61, the highest I have ever encountered, but I cannot find any independent sources for his life or career. Sure, he deserves recognition, but would this encyclopedia be enhanced by a mention of his h-index and a list of publications? By itself, the list of publications would fail WP:LISTN. Where is the line between that and an article that should be kept? RockMagnetist (talk) 15:33, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Who is he - I'll see if I can have a go at making a page? (Msrasnw (talk) 15:35, 13 March 2013 (UTC))

That would be great! He is Richard Frankel (here is his his faculty page). RockMagnetist (talk) 15:56, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Started a quick stubby new page. (Msrasnw (talk) 17:45, 13 March 2013 (UTC))

Where? RockMagnetist (talk) 18:27, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Under his name: Richard B. Frankel

Nice start! I'm amazed I never came across the entry in The Panda's Thumb before. RockMagnetist (talk) 20:23, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Your request for rollback

Hi Msrasnw. After reviewing your request for rollback, I have enabled rollback on your account. Keep in mind these things when going to use rollback:

• Getting rollback is no more momentous than installing Twinkle.
• Rollback should be used to revert clear cases of vandalism only, and not good faith edits.
• Rollback should never be used to edit war.
• If abused, rollback rights can be revoked.
• Use common sense.

If you no longer want rollback, contact me and I'll remove it. Also, for some more information on how to use rollback, see Wikipedia:New admin school/Rollback (even though you're not an admin). I'm sure you'll do great with rollback, but feel free to leave me a message on my talk page if you run into troubles or have any questions about appropriate/inappropriate use of rollback. Thank you for helping to reduce vandalism. Happy editing! INeverCry 20:59, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks :) {Msrasnw (talk) 22:41, 26 March 2013 (UTC)}

Iceland related AfDs

Good to see you are still here, Msrasnw :) Vejvančický (talk / contribs) 15:05, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Ahoj (Góðan dag مرحبا ) - Good to see you too. I have just been starting to try to do more things here on WP and in particular seeing what Afds are like when you make the proposal yourself. It is funny how it affects one. Once you do a proposal you want the article deleting but with soemone else's I normally want to keep things. Anyway - by the by - I know slightly more about Iceland's politics and media than I do about Kuwaiti modern art scene but only slightly more. I think the programm and the station (Óli á Hrauni and ÍNN) are a bit dubious too!  :)!!!! (Msrasnw (talk) 15:16, 27 March 2013 (UTC))

Hey, and you have a good memory, my respect :) ÍNN seems to be notable [2], [3], [4] etc., and Óli á Hrauni could be incorporated into it (?). I know nothing about Iceland's politics and media, I refused to speedily delete those articles a few days ago and since then I slowly familiarize myself with the country via Internet :) --Vejvančický (talk / contribs) 16:34, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I have added a couple of your refs (www.mbl.is and the iceland review online) but the later does seem to suggest INN is a very very small operation run by Ingvi Hrafn Jónsson. But could be enough for notability so I have removed the tag. I think the stand alone article for Óli á Hrauni might be pushing it so I'll leave the ugly tag on that for now. I think I may not be cut out for tagging and afding - it feels a bit dirty but I might get used to it! (Msrasnw (talk) 17:12, 27 March 2013 (UTC))

Talkback

Hello, Msrasnw. You have new messages at ChrisHodgesUK's talk page.
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ChrisHodgesUK (talk) 21:24, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

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Thanks DPL bot I think I have corrected my blunder. (Msrasnw (talk) 23:59, 3 April 2013 (UTC))

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Dear Theo, Thanks for you little note and sorry I don't have anymore information than I put there. Best wishes (Msrasnw (talk) 09:08, 14 April 2013 (UTC))

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Thanks my error has been remedied. Msrasnw (talk) 19:56, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Freud Communications for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Freud Communications is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Freud Communications until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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Yeah your additions are looking very good.

Generally there is a 7 day waiting period for the article to either be improved or for discussion to come to some sort of conclusion before admin decide to delete or not.
You've managed to improve it vastly in 2 days; so over next few days... who knows. I should imagine it should be ok now. But add any more info you can whilst you can.
I'd advise you to get rid of your comment about the family connection in the deletion discussion though. It's provocative. The rules are the same for everyone so wouldn't help the article's case anyway, but it's quite a threatening comment so the contributors and ultimately the admin who choose whether to delete or not may not look kindly on it.

Best
Rushton2010 (talk) 01:36, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

With companies I always advise people to imagine you were looking for a job with them. We are told to research companies before going for job interviews with them; so try and include things people would want to know in that scenario. Who, what, when, why and how the company was founded. It's structure if that is unusual. Where it operates (international?), where it is (and has been) based. Any awards it has been nominated for or won. Any usual practices; is it a green company or donates 50% of its profits to saving African Lions or whatever.
But obviously remember the neutral non-promotional tone.
On a wider-scale, what's the company's contribution to the industry? Why will people looking at the encyclopedia in 10, 50, 100 years care about or be interested in the company?
One direct suggestion -You could elaborate on why they pulled out of the American market.

Hopefully some food for thought, maybe?
Regards
Rushton2010 (talk) 14:40, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

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May 2013

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Zhiu Xiaofeng

"If any one wants to talk anything on the topics about professor Zhu?"

That's all it said. DS (talk) 12:02, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Newman

I think you should revert the rollback and let the student go to it. When the smoke clears if there's provable copyvio, that can be handled on a focused basis. I'm going to take the liberty of doing the rollback on your rollback and will lay hands on the piece a little myself this evening to get it into form. Hope this is okay. Carrite (talk) 05:59, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for checking on it. I'll crack the whip on her to add some footnotes. —Tim //// Carrite (talk) 06:08, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

A gentle word might be better :) (Msrasnw (talk) 06:10, 6 June 2013 (UTC))

Reminder

Hi, See my Talk Page, Have a good day,KhabarNegar (talk) 16:23, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I just came back & see this have not been send yet, looks like you have seen the talk page before, OK.KhabarNegar (talk) 16:25, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

LSE approach to econometrics

In the article you recently created, does LSE stand for London School of Economics or something else? If so, please add and provide a source. --bender235 (talk) 14:24, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Dear Bender235, I think if you have another look - there are sources there already. Feel free to add a link to the London School of Economics whereever you feel is best. I wasn't sure how best to write the text to include such a link! Best wishes (Msrasnw (talk) 16:23, 1 August 2013 (UTC))

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Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 10:45, 5 November 2013 (UTC) Thanks BracketBot I have made the suggested correction and sorry for the error. (Msrasnw (talk) 17:12, 5 November 2013 (UTC))

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Ralph Merrifield

Thank you for your comment, Msrasnw. I personally think that Ralph Merrifield warrants his own Wikipedia article, so thank you for creating it! There should be enough obituaries for the man to fill out the article a bit. Midnightblueowl (talk) 23:11, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

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MfD nomination of User:Msrasnw/Richard J H Matthews

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Proposed deletion of Super battleship (warship)

The article Super battleship (warship) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

This seems to be an article about a neologism. Furthermore, until I suggested deleting it, it had been entirely unreferenced for over a year; even now the references are of no value. This article might as well be called "Really big battleship". It is much like the late, unlamented Heavy First Rate article, and like that article, adds nothing to the encyclopaedia.

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Thanks from John de Norrona

for the help on the Tausch article from User John de Norrona. Wikipedia is good, but a complicated thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by John de Norrona (talk • contribs) 12:27, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Horsfall

I have to confess that my additions are motivated by more than purely disinterested scholarship. Shelagh Wilson, whose essay I quote, is my wife! She has a lot of other material on Horsfall, but as it is unpublished, I can't add it. Paul B (talk) 21:37, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I went to our Art Gallery and saw the jolly nice room / exhibition on him and his gallery and was sure we would have a page on here but... now we do! Best wishes (Msrasnw (talk) 21:43, 12 March 2014 (UTC))

Thomas Coglan Horsfall & Manchester Art Museum

My pleasure. Excellent work on both. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 14:23, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

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Deleting article talk page comments

Could you please explain your revert of my comment on the HDI talk page? I'd suggest that it might be useful if you provided an ES. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:04, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

I apoligised as quickly as I could on your page and now realise your page suggests I should write here. So sorry here too...... Best wishes, (Msrasnw (talk) 22:18, 9 June 2014 (UTC))

a kind note on the Tausch issue from User Weber.

well, I think, if you go through the CV, you find also, for example, these two book reviews in the Journal of Common Market Studies, a very high impact factor journals, as well as the review essays written by Nolte in Das Argument, also a relatively high impact factor journal; the Luxembourg Seminars might be mentioned, because they were after all under the umbrella of the Luxembourg EU Presidency. I feel that the issue of the Russian Journals, which Tausch co-edits, has been dealt with in an especially unjust way. Just Google 'Andrey Korotayev', one of Tausch's closest Russian associates; as well as google "History and Mathematics + Korotayev + Tausch" and you find good links. The Russians are ascending, and the West needs them, and we can't treat them like that. Saying their journals are not noteworthy because they are not on an Index, largely based on journals published in 2000 km vicinity of Alabama.... As to the classroom use of the books and materials written by him the Harvard course by Jocelyne Cesari and the U California course by Davodson which used his Socio-Liberal book might be good arguments. Cambridge Scientific Abstracts, the geographically best balanced index, makes frequent references to Tausch's work in 28 countries around the globe. User Weber

Suzannah Lipscomb

I refer to your apology on my user page for which I thank you. I am interested to read that you started Suzannah Lipscomb's page, and wonder what kick-started it? I have just made a request on her talk page and thought I'd bring it to your attention. There is also information about another award 'All the King's Fools' and her membership of the 'Royal Historical Society' as a 'Marshall Research Fellow at the Institute of Historical Research', shown on her personal website that I wonder if you think would be appropriate to add to the Wiki page?MdeBohun (talk) 16:15, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

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Agree about Laura Mersini-Houghton

I tried to revamp her article here but it got reverted by Holybeef. I would revert back but know the rules about edit warring. Wondering if you saw my revamp and what you think.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 17:42, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes I had seen your edits and the fact that they had been reverted. To me that appeared poor form for someone who wants to delete it to behave this way. I think the whole deltion thing looks a bit odd. And the editor involved although new - has been a very quick to learn. Perhaps they are just new as registered though. The other deleter IP -8173841 this seems to have been their only edit which is odd. I know cosmology attracts people with strong views that don't match on to what I would think we would like to include as being notable. Academics citations and public/media recognition of Dr Mersini's work seems to me clear. The Guardian describes her as an esteemed cosmologist. Xxanthippe, the other delete voter has also seen lots of AFDs and is happy to revisit things when h-indices may have been wrongly calculated or other things change. They may (or may not) change their mind. I have asked her (I guess) to have another look. I think the page view thing is useful to indicate interest but many others don't. Anyway best wishes and don't worry (Msrasnw (talk) 17:56, 7 July 2014 (UTC))

Thanks.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 18:07, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Santosh Mehrotra

Dear Stifle, I am writing to ask for a little more explanation for your decision to delete and salt the article. My reading of this is that closure was incorrect as it did not reflect consensus of the debate given the timing of the contributions. The article as written and as nominated was probably autobiographical and overpromotional. And this led to the nomination of the article and to the support for deletion and salting by User:David Eppstein. He suggested the article "would need a ground-up rewrite by a neutral party to be sure of getting rid of the promotional content and so far the only significant contributor to the article has been the subject". I subsequently did that and thought I had removed all the ‎autobiographical material and rewritten the article in a more neutral tone and provided additional supporting references. I have contacted User:David Eppstein here User_talk:David_Eppstein#Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion.2FSantosh_Mehrotra. I thought I should ask here for advice. Best wishes (Msrasnw (talk) 10:50, 18 December 2014 (UTC))

Hi there, I consider all my deletion decisions carefully to ensure they are appropriate and this is no exception. A clear majority of opinions were in favour of deletion and as User:EEng noted, the sources need to actually exist in reality, rather than in likelihood. Stifle (talk) 11:45, 18 December 2014 (UTC)