User talk:Mootros/Archives/2010/March

EKD regional churches - your moves

Hey, I noticed you moved the articles about the churches in the template below from the English to the German name.

I am curious why the local name should be preferred over the English name? Skäpperöd (talk) 13:30, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi Skäpperöd, thanks for leaving a message. The problem is not that the Geographical names (i.e.Bavaria) but the term Landeskirche which forms a part of some of these churches. Evangelisch-Lutherische Landeskirche in Braunschweig To call this State_church would be misleading, as it is not a state church. Also some of the articles did not even feature the German name; this is particularly problematic since most of content on the web and elsewhere doesn't use the English name. Following the example in the Wikipedia:Naming_conventions: Nazi Party and not Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, an alternative would be simply Landeskirche (Brunswick). What do you think? Mootros (talk) 15:32, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

You are correct that Landeskirche and state boundaries do not correspond, and that State Church would be misleading. The World Council of Churches, where all German Landeskirchen are members, translates Landeskirche simply as "Church". Please have a look at their website [1] (Pomeranian Ev. Church is selected, but all other German Landeskirchen are listed by their English names in the sidebar on the left). How about following that usage? Skäpperöd (talk) 17:41, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for this! I'm not sure about the English term Evangelical. Protestant Church in Central Germany [[2]] Is the more appropriate translation of Evangelische Kirche in Mitteldeutschland Mootros (talk) 17:56, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I am not happy with "Evangelic" either, as these churches have nothing to do with Evangelicalism, and I agree that "Protestant" is a more appropriate translation of "evangelisch" (as opposed to "evangelikal"). Unfortunately, The Lutheran World Federation, where some of the Landeskirchen are members, does also use "Evangelical" [3]. Yet, usage is slightly different from the one at World Council of Churches, e.g. what is Pomeranian Evangelical Church over there is Evangelical Church of Pomerania at the other site. Are these differences sufficient to conclude that there is no established English name, and that we are free to chose the most appropriate one? I understand now why you did the moves though.... Skäpperöd (talk) 18:19, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you kindly for talking this through and helping with the evidence to substantiate the reasons behind the move. Yours, Mootros (talk)

Why did you move the Evangelical Church in Germany to the German name without any discussion? The Church's English website has no ambiguity; it is clearly translated the Evangelical Church in Germany. This makes no sense to me so please if you don't mind, give a reason on the talk page. Thanks. Ltwin (talk) 20:40, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Dear Ltwin, Thank you for making contact! Please see the talk page for clarification. Thank you for your effort and appreciation of the WP:Bold policy. Yours, Mootros (talk) 16:20, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

I really disapprove of your handling. You redirected all names and links without starting a discussion first. You even started a kind of edit war after another user undid your move. As far as Landeskirche is concerned you have to see the historic context. This was an Established Church in former times and often relates to a state that doesn't exist anymore, like the State of Brunswick. http://dict.leo.org/?lp=ende&from=fx3&search=landeskirche --Mk4711 (talk) 12:29, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Dear Mk4711, what do you mean by having started an edit war? I did not undo anything. I have placed an RfC. Yours, Mootros (talk) 12:40, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

As far as I understood you changed the name of a wikipedia entry without discussing it first und did it again after it had been reverted to its orginal form. And this even though you could see that this Evangelical or not issue has already been discussed. I'm not too happy about "state church" either. But you should have discussed it at the relevant entries as well before changing everything --Mk4711 (talk) 12:50, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I still have no idea what you're talking about? Please show me where I did something again, apart from this bold move. Mootros (talk) 13:03, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I requested a move in the case of the Evangelical Lutheran (State) Church in Brunswick. The question on how to translate Landeskiche can be discussed there. I have a preference, but no strong opinion on that issue. I think the outcome of the discussion should be applied to all 6 EKD churches using this historic word. --Mk4711 (talk) 22:23, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. I have objection to the move. I prefer Landeskirche = church as the WCC states http://www.oikoumene.org/en/member-churches/regions/europe/germany.html . Thanks, Mootros (talk) 10:08, 8 March 2010 (UTC)