User talk:Modernist/Archive7

Goya

FYI [1] Ceoil (talk) 21:20, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

We've been fighting that fight for years now, and it still goes on, one of the greatest painting of the 20th century that has to be in those articles...Modernist (talk) 21:24, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

I know. Ceoil (talk) 21:33, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

We need to deepen the text at the 3rd of May for the use of the painting - and if we can add text I will rewrite the Fair Use claim and hopefully that will be ok...Modernist (talk) 21:38, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking exactly that, but dont have any Goya stuff to hand, all back in the attic. But yeah, I would be up for that within a week or so. In other news, tune to ease the misery of it all - strange, witty and beautiful, [2]. Take care. Ceoil (talk) 21:41, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

That was nice, I opened a beer, whatta gaze...Modernist (talk) 21:49, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

I suppose a return link would be out of the question. Ceoil (talk) 23:13, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Re. The Third of May: I can't see that Guernica and Massacre in Korea are necessary or justified, and the latter so obviously refers to Goya, that it is the obvious choice. Text concerning Guernica would be ample. Maybe there is another work by a different artist that could be used, though nothing occurs immediately. The last two paragraphs here could add to the legacy section... Ty 00:22, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

What a great find Ty, I don't know how you do it, amazing. The Massacre in Korea is definitely the direct descendant of the Third of May although as the text states Guernica was probably directly influenced by Goya and it's Picasso's masterpiece. I think the text you found should be added as a reference, and I'll look for another image. But I think especially with this text Guernica can be used as a demonstration of the power of Goya's legacy. This quote by Picasso is powerful:

“The Spanish struggle is the fight of reaction against the people, against freedom. My whole life as an artist has been nothing more than a continuous struggle against reaction and the death of art. How could anybody think for a moment that I could be in agreement with reaction and death? … In the panel on which I am working, which I shall call Guernica, and in all my recent works of art, I clearly express my abhorrence of the military caste which has sunk Spain in an ocean of pain and death”. Thanks...Modernist (talk) 00:38, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

I have to confess such things are often serendipity as a result of various search term permutations in Google, when the first one doesn't yield the required results or maybe ropes too much into the net. Ty 02:37, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

As much as I would like to re-add Guernica I'll let some time pass, see what develops...Modernist (talk) 03:01, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

And now for something compleatly different

[3]. Destress time I think, for all of us. Ceoil (talk) 03:36, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Cheers for the Bertin fixes. Poor old Ingres, I'd say it wasn't much fun being him. Ceoil 18:19, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Seems like a talented but tight-ass type...Modernist (talk) 18:21, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

The image of Bertin comforting the weeping artist in the studio is lovely. You can see Ingres' sevirity in every brush stroke. Not the sort of man I'd go for a pint with. If he were here with us he'd be trolling AN/I. Ceoil 18:27, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

An admin for sure.... By the way zoom in on the image - what's that next to his left hand - [4] an extra finger?...Modernist (talk) 18:33, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Now thats freaky! Speaking of admins, did you see the business with Malleus last night. Got pushed around, and when he complained, was basically told, you know, your a fairly bad boy yourself, maybe we should take you to arbcom. And off they went fishing for diffs. Similar to TFMWNCB, ie utter utter bullshit, and basic naked bullying. The AN/I post to content ratio is inversly to having been a meak and harassed child and now vengeful adult, I think. Ceoil 18:58, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Re: Bertin's hand: It's his thumb, but granted it's strangely drawn--could have been restored, like so many old master passages. And Ingres was definitely not a party boy--thank God there was him to provide color, in many senses of the word. By the way, great work on the article....I'm tempted to find my books and add to it, in a 'retired consultant' fashion. Cheers for the New Year, JNW (talk) 21:22, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, although he sure could draw, after some twisting and finger turning I can see it as the thumb; 'retired consultants' are always welcome here, all the best in the new year...Modernist (talk) 22:07, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

He could draw like a sumbitch; the French Wiki claims that the drawing of Charles Thevenin served as a template [5]. There were several preliminary sketches, too. JNW (talk) 23:11, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that's some drawing, near perfection although I like his paintings - I prefer Gericault and Delacroix...Modernist (talk) 00:23, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Such cool restraint doesn't easily inspire a passionate response--he's probably the only painter of such perfectly enameled surfaces that I like, and then only for his portraits. And the drawings that slay me are the figure studies that weren't intended for public view, few or none of which are in the commons. Degas was shrewd to place him with Delacroix and Daumier, who is my favorite of the bunch. But the Bertin is one of the great portraits of its century. JNW (talk) 00:55, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

And those paintings of the women are just so sexy...Modernist (talk) 02:01, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

I forgot about the odalisques. And there's her [6] Amen. JNW (talk) 02:12, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Re: then only for his portraits. His history paintings leave me cold, and there is a bitter irony that they didn't age well, and what he though was his serious work and what he though were his journey-man pieces jars with the taste of almost everybody who has lived between now and then and has eyes. But thats all part of the package with him, what I like in the portraits is the restraint, the coolness; its all bubbling beneath the surface with Ingres. Ceoil 12:28, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, the history painting heyday was a little before Ingres' generation and he was painting against the current, that produced the Romantics and later Courbet and the Realists - although they didn't see it at the time. I have always admired his drawings though...Modernist (talk) 12:41, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't know the drawings, yet, but considering he was so popular at the Salon and given that his painting were against the tide but were met with critics and openion makers who were writing against the tide...I would have though happy days for Ingres. Ceoil 13:16, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, Ceoil, that there is something going on beneath the surface, an idiosyncratic nature that's long been recognized, and separates him from his ostensible goal to be Raphael. It also distinguishes him from his thousands of 19th century followers, as well as many 'retro' neoclassical figurative painters today. And he painted the doughiest hands in art; there's not a finger that isn't perfectly plump and manicured, and none of his subjects ever so much as washed a dish. Find a book on his drawings. The line quality is utterly refined, the energy endlessly restless. JNW (talk) 14:46, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Well said, I should say that when I was 15 one of my art teachers turned me on to Ingres' drawings and that line quality...Modernist (talk) 21:59, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

You were lucky, as was I. Today I taught a drawing workshop for high school students, lovely kids and some very talented, but I'm quite sure none of them would recognize Ingres or Cezanne. Not their fault, nor their teachers'--it's our culture. Even in an advanced educational curriculum there's little place for such esoterica, by which I mean an inspired study of great artists. JNW (talk) 01:55, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

How true, and how sad that our culture is so superficial and so dumbed down. When I was 15 I showed my drawings to Arnold Blanch and I think he was a little annoyed at me and he told me to look at Ingres' drawings...Modernist (talk) 02:01, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Amusing diversion

Give this a try and see how you do. My first time, I got 37 (out of 101). Raul654 (talk) 00:14, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Wow, humbling experience - shows me how much memory I am losing as I get older - I got 54 out of 101. That was fun...Modernist (talk) 03:36, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Question

In major gallerys can you just walk in and start taking photographs, or do I need a heavy raincoat to conceal what I'm up to. Its a big no no in Irish and Dutch galleries I've been to not so much in Germany; wondering about London (next month) and NY or LA (December). Ceoil 22:46, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

I think its allright. I have pictures of me and my kids at the Metropolitan Museum of Art; someone sent me a picture of the lobby of the Museum of Modern Art, and nowadays everyone has a camera I think its generally ok. I hope we see you in NYC, btw...Modernist (talk) 22:51, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Whats the worst that can happen, eh ;). I have a friend who moved to LA during the year, and owe him a visit. But I'm not really keen on visiting LA, and really like NY and he's never been, and well, we might meet there. But its dependant on a lot of things. If it happens I will for sure look you up. Ceoil 22:57, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Bty, I'll push The Magdalen Reading for FAC late feb / eraly march, once I get a copy of Lorne Campbell big book when I visit London. Any interest? Your help would be very much appreciated. Ceoil 23:09, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Modernist: Met and MOMA....very nice. If I had those credits I'd be insufferable....er, more insufferable. Ceoil, keep me in the loop re: your travels. Could meet both of you in NY or at the Yale Gallery of Art. JNW (talk) 16:25, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Fine, would be good. M: seriously impressive credentials, very proud for you. And by the way JNW, as insufferable goes, your doing just fine. I have a friend who was in London, and never shuts up the fuck about it. So it goes, some people are nice, some not. Ceoil 00:15, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for taking the time to review the Maya stelae FA nom. Much appreciated, best regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 13:16, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Congratulations! Simon...Modernist (talk) 13:21, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Oppenheim Obit

Artnet to this writer is the cnn of the artworld it is a reliable and accredited newsource. Wether or not somebody as controversial as Charlie (Mr. Finch) penned the piece is sort of superflous. I have it from personal sources that he is dead and it was conffirmed by whitebox -sure we could wait for Roberta's piece to come out but I think it is established. Masterknighted (talk) 00:20, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I personally am waiting for Roberta's obit, I don't trust the Finch column...Modernist (talk) 00:31, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

The Last Supper

I appreciate your help on the List of works by Vincent van Gogh page. I also wanted your advice regarding the Pop culture section on The Last Supper page. I think it should be removed entirely, and there doesn't seem to be much discussion supporting its existence. I did move one artistic reference over to the Modern Art section of the page, but the rest seem to be one-off television references which really have nothing to do with the painting itself. Would I be overstepping my bounds by removing it entirely?--Chimino (talk) 13:42, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I recommend removing the whole section. There are only 2 references in the entire section - and they do not add to the article or to the painting...Modernist (talk) 13:46, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Will do, thanks.--Chimino (talk) 14:31, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Hemingway question

Hi Modernist - you're my go-to guy for Hemingway because you're one of the few people around here who really appreciates his work. I've been thinking about working on one of the book articles in anticipation of the 50 year anniversary of his death date this summer. I need to get started now if I'm to do a good job, but can't decide which one to work on. I'm leaning toward The Sun Also Rises - my favorite - or For Whom the Bell Tolls, but I suppose a good argument could be made to do The Old Man and the Sea - my least favorite. So, I need an opinion from another editor - and that would be you. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 17:29, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

BTW - thought I'd let you know that I'm well into The Sun Also Rises, but would appreciate it if you watch over my shoulder. Too many sources, too much going on in one short seemingly simple book, too hard to piece it all together. I've lost a little confidence since writing Pound. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 15:16, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll do my best...Modernist (talk) 22:00, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

If you know the book then any help is better than none. Entire sections haven't been done yet, and I'm trying to rework the themes section so it flows better. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 23:05, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

I read it in 1963 and I'll try to get a copy this week...Modernist (talk) 23:12, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

To be totally honest, I haven't read it since college. That was a while ago, but it stuck. I thought I'd get through the criticism & then reread the book & rewrite the plot last. This is the problem with lit articles - you have to read the book at some point .... Truthkeeper88 (talk) 23:24, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

It's a memorable read and my memory is pretty good but '63 was a longtime ago. I'll pick up a copy at Borders - they are discounting everything these days :)...Modernist (talk) 23:34, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

They're going out of business - but don't get me started on how big box stores have ruined the publishing industry. I'd like to see some of the independent bookstores make their way back again. Was recently in Boston (where I once lived) and shocked that all my favorite bookstores were gone. Anyway, a digression on bookstores. I'm mostly editing weekends these days, so you'll probably have the book read before I get to it. I still have a lot of criticism to get through. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 01:13, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Result of your complaint at the edit-warring noticeboard

See WP:AN3#User:Salmon1 reported by User:Modernist (Result: Article protected, editors warned). Please make an effort to avoid any further disputes with Salmon1. I believe that you know some experienced editors who work on art topics (such as Ceoil, JNW or Tyrenius). Try to discuss with one of them before reverting Salmon1 in the future. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 17:33, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Ed, its being looked after and I've offered to mediate on Salmon's talk. I'm obviously biased as a friend of Modernist, but this needs to be worked through, imo the only solution being disengagement on whatever terms are agreed. I have a selfish interest in that I work very closely with him (we have around 6 FAs together), and am afraid that he might leave over this. I'll bind him to terms if it suits me, no worries. Ceoil 17:52, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Nicolas Carone

In what was then surely one of the most awkward possible meetings in art world history, in the early 80s I visited Mr. Carone in his Manhattan studio; he looked at my work and tried to explain the value of abstraction underlying realism, sharing anecdotes of his observations of Pollock. I do believe I'd be more appreciative now, but I was young and exceedingly defensive.... now I see that he's referred to as a figurative painter, but his figuration seemed so completely foreign to what I considered representational art. Anyway, just dropped in to say hello, and voice my respect for you. Best, JNW (talk) 00:28, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Appreciate the visit, ironically I was talking with a friend earlier today about Nicolas Carone and he was talking about his 'heads' (the paintings not the sculpture), which I am not familiar with, interesting though. I think of him as an AE guy. I last saw him and spoke with him in 2005...Modernist (talk) 01:11, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Galacidalacidesoxyribonucleicacid

New article created by me. Best. Title. Ever :) (I saw it in person at the Dali Museum in Tampa and I've been meaning to write this one for a while) Raul654 (talk) 06:15, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

That's a brain challenge! good job...Modernist (talk) 12:31, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Theo van Doesburg footnotes

Wow, fast work. Thanks. Yakushima (talk) 10:31, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I see that you have made even better improvements; well done...Modernist (talk) 12:15, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Departure

I noticed with some disappointment that you left WikiProject Public art. I would be happy to discuss with you any particular issues you had with the project. Your edits to public art articles are important. Thanks --RichardMcCoy (talk) 23:28, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I am not interested at the moment, thank you for your note...Modernist (talk) 23:30, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

History of painting

I'll have to give the Islamic section a going over at some point. Then the Indian. Islamic art is the subject of the moment, as our coverage is so poor. That article's getting awfully big, isn't it? Johnbod (talk) 04:39, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate all the help that you can bring there. It is pretty big to say the least...Modernist (talk) 04:41, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Vincent van Gogh

Hello, I notice you reverted my addition of the van Gogh painting to the piece. Have you actually seen that painting in person? The version I uploaded from the Yale Art Gallery contains colors that are more faithful to the original, which is in its collection. Regards, MarmadukePercy (talk) 00:16, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I have, my take is your version is a bit too dark, the other version is probably too bright and the painting is somewhere in between...Modernist (talk) 00:36, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

cézanne médal

do you have some explanation for deleting my contribution to Cézanne article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wazzo777 (talk • contribs) 13:41, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Aside from your poor english and your bad spelling, - I didn't delete it - I added it to the legacy section - after I corrected your mistakes. It does not belong in the lead of the article which is about the life and career of Cezanne the painter, the award is somewhat of an afterthought...Modernist (talk) 13:50, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

You speak the truth, i have a side of bad poor english... I apologize for my message and mistakes, i realize after sending, what you did and thank you for that. I'm a new user, neophyte, with a poor quality english but doing something unstead of the opposite. Please be sure of my good will. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wazzo777 (talk • contribs) 14:58, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

No problem, do your best :)...Modernist (talk) 15:02, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Breton and Picasso

Your clarification was in order and I thank for that; Breton was, indeed, a Trotskyist and a bitter enemy of Stalin. As you said, this helps to explain his remark to Picasso.

I would make one correction: Breton was a "Trotskyist". From the Wikipedia website http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotskyism, "In France, 10% of the electorate voted in 2002 for parties calling themselves Trotskyist" (my emphasis). I don't think the "Trotskyite" spelling occurs anywhere this Wikipedia page: "Trotskyist" is used throughout, and establishes it as the accepted spelling.

The same wiki site says: "Today, in the English language an advocate of Trotsky's ideas is usually called a "Trotskyist" while Trotskyism's opponents usually refer to them pejoratively as a "Trotskyite" or "Trot".[5]" In the same way, one is a "Stalinist", not a "Stalinite" whether one likes or dislikes Stalin.

Advocate or not, let's not use any terms that have a desparaging tone. I know you didn't mean it as such; I used "Trotskyite" myself for many years. Let's use "Trotskyist" if only for the sake of consistency. --Mysweetoldetc. 20:14, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the correction, I have never heard the term Trotskyist before, I guess I'm never to old to learn a new word :)...Modernist (talk) 21:15, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

A simple technical question

Dear Modernist -

Excust my ignorance, but I'm having some difficulties with some of the "alternative" citation/reference methods; I'm not finding the info I need at the usual webpages. Who can I ask for remedial information; I'll take a chance asking you.

Here's an example question: How do I use the cit/ref system used at the Emily Dickinson page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Dickinson (if you go there, you'll quickly see that only one method is used at that site)

I can establish say "Wolff p. 55", but how do I link it to the reference (author/title/publisher/page)?

And add to that: what if you have two citations from the same author, but each from a different book - how can you tell which citation goes to which source?

So far the editing methods I've use at other pages are discernable from looking at the edit pages and fooling around with them on sandbox; can't figure this one out. Can you explain it to me?

I would consider it a kindness. --Mysweetoldetc. 18:21, 8 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mysweetoldetc. (talk • contribs)

Dear mysweetoldetc. - please ask User:Truthkeeper88 I have a lot of stuff to take care of in rl...Modernist (talk) 21:17, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Modernist. You have new messages at Freshacconci's talk page.
Message added 15:38, 12 March 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Lucile Blanch

Thank you for cleaning up the article on Lucile Blanch, I am not an art expert, so it's nice to have someone who knows the ropes for that kind of article. I am actually just writing some articles for the images on the Smithsonians Flicker account for WP:GLAM/SI. Would you be interested in helping research and identify the artists? We could really use some more help in writing articles, and we have plenty of images to work off of. Sign up on the participants list, and make sure that you record what articles you write at Wikipedia:GLAM/SI/Outcomes. Thanks again! Sadads (talk) 12:58, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

You did a good job with the article. I'll check WP:GLAM/SI out...Modernist (talk) 13:02, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

I am happy to help out with consultations if I can, let me know if you need my help...Modernist (talk) 13:18, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Sure thing. If you through your name down on the list, we can send you updates if we do any drives, Sadads (talk) 13:27, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Red links

Hi Modernist, I just wanted to check in to see why edits to remove red links in Van Gogh's template were reverted. Is it better to have red links (which I thought meant dead / removed article)? I'm still new here so I might be misunderstanding something. You're help is greatly appreciated!!!--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:30, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Carole - sometimes red links are useful - they tell us what articles are needed. In the template I didn't think that they were harmful. However most redlinks can be removed, judgment comes into play. Very good job so far with your image work. Keep up the good work...Modernist (talk) 05:33, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks! I've been having fun working on the paintings! Thanks for the compliment. Take care! --CaroleHenson (talk) 05:50, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

I see that you gave Agostina Segatori Sitting in the Café du Tambourin a "start" class. What do you think needs to be done to the article to refine or expand it? Thanks!!! --CaroleHenson (talk) 23:17, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Carole I think that the text needs copyediting and expansion and more can be said about the paintings that Vincent made in Paris. Start is a good indication that the article is well underway. Nice referencing, although I am surprised by the sale of so many of his works, is this documented? I am also troubled by the color of the image - it simply cannot be true to the painting - far to yellow...Modernist (talk) 23:23, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

1) editing: Yes, that makes sense. No matter how well I try to be my own editor, I always seem to miss a couple of things. 2) Paris: I put a lot more about development of van Gogh's style during his time in Paris in the Portrait of Pére Tanguy. While not all would apply, some of it would. And I have a lot of good background material at my home to tap into. I can work on that. 3) yes, the coloring in the picture is not quite what I've seen published. Right now I only know to go to the Wikimedia Commons. 4) Sale of his paintings. Yes, it's very well documented, I could add many more references- the sad side is the paintings were used in exchange of money - for paint and food, not cash. The sale of the bundles of his paintings were a travesty, they sold for much less than the cost of the materials (frames, canvas and paint). It seems the only thing that brought him real payment were his Japanese prints, but at a very low price. He never had money to take to the bank.

Pere Tanguy nomination

Thanks for your help on the painting articles! Pere Tanguy was nominated for DYK and I put a thank you to you in response to the announcement here (if this works) User_talk:CaroleHenson#Portrait_of_P.C3.A9re_Tanguy--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:51, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Good job Carole. Keep doing your best...Modernist (talk) 01:58, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thanks for following the articles I've been working on. It's always nice to see you've made an appearance. I'm hoping that by starting on the user page (as you found for the van Gogh Roses painting) I can get the articles a little further along, and some additional editing done, etc. before it's posted. But, in any event, I just wanted so say thanks! It's always nice to see what you find - sometimes giving myself an internal "dohhh" (how could I have missed that) to nice surprises in more tightly worded expression. It was nice to see your appearance in "Roses"! --CaroleHenson (talk) 01:31, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Actually that was my mistake, I was so enthused by your work that I jumped in there before you were ready. Keep 'em coming Carole, you are doing very well and it's fun to lend you a hand...Modernist (talk) 01:52, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! Coming behind me as you have, are there any topics from the WP:MOS that you think would be helpful for me to read about? I started reading the manual and it has a lot of wonderful info, but it's also a bit overwhelming. Anything you think would be especially good for me to read? --CaroleHenson (talk) 02:30, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Just reference it as you need to, and do your best...Modernist (talk) 03:11, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok, will do, it's a big document. I used it, though, for translation of a french quote, hopefully I understood correctly what to do in terms of formatting. If you're interested and have the time, I'm finished with the Vase of Roses article. --CaroleHenson (talk) 13:29, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Carole, I'll take a look...Modernist (talk) 17:56, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

WBFAN

Hi - This edit [7] will be undone the next time the bot runs. Every time it runs it reconstructs the entire table from the yearly lists like WP:FA2009.

Looking at the nom history of The Swimming Hole, Raul654 was listed at the time as the nominator, and the nominators for Las Meninas were listed as Ceoil and Johnbod. Are you saying you were a co-nom for these? -- Rick Block (talk) 03:52, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I worked editing The Swimming Hole with Raul654 and JNW and we 3 brought it to FA status - edit count there is 132 - JNW; 122 - Raul654 - 70 me and 63 Ceoil; likewise I worked Las Meninas with Ceoil, Johnbod, Tyrenius, JNW and a few others - without being listed as nominator, although we all contributed to the FA status, admittedly my contribution there was only strategic. It is somewhat of a confusing process, thanks for the clarification...Modernist (talk) 04:12, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't actually care - WBFAN is meant to be an encouragement for folks to both work on FAs and (tangibly) take them through the FA nomination process (articles that meet all the criteria but are never nominated are not FAs). If you feel slighted, by all means update the records (I assume Raul654, and Ceoil and Johnbod with have no problem with this). The place to make the updates that will "take" is WP:FA2009 (for The Swimming Hole) and WP:FA2008 (for Las Meninas). -- Rick Block (talk) 04:35, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Per [8] I've added you as a co-nom for The Swimming Hole [9]. If you want to add yourself as a co-nom for Las Meninas please feel free. -- Rick Block (talk) 05:07, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Rick, appreciated...Modernist (talk) 10:19, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Service award level

There has been a major revision of the the Service Awards: the edit requirements for the higher levels have been greatly reduced, to make them reasonably attainable.

Because of this, your Service Award level has been changed, and you are now eligible for a higher level. I have taken the liberty of updating your award on your user page.

Herostratus (talk) 08:44, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks...Modernist (talk) 10:22, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Congratulations! --CaroleHenson (talk) 05:02, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Template for van Gogh

I am enjoying working on the van Gogh paintings - and thanks for all your help along the way! I have two questions for you related to the templalte of van Gogh paintings Template:Vincent van Gogh. 1) I tried to search to find guidance on the placement of information in the paintings section of the template. Do you know, by chance, if there's an order here (or should be an order to the paintings in the template)? 2) I don't think that all the articles written of van Gogh's paintings are in the template. If I was to work on that, would it be ok to put the paintings into groupings by period (Holland, Paris, etc.?) Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:25, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

I would like you to organize them chronologically, and please add all those paintings that have corresponding articles, keep up the good work Carole...Modernist (talk) 02:22, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok, sounds good! Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:02, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Olive Trees (series)

Thanks for your edits on the Olive Trees - you always add a nice polish! Question for you: It was a lot of information to share -- many more nuances than I expected. Does it seem to you as if the article flows well? Or, do you have any ideas about how to make it flow a bit better? Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:04, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Carole you have done a terrific series, and I'm sure it will grow in time. The article covers the territory and does a good job explaining the subtle differences between paintings and groups of paintings that are packed with complex meaning and psychological implications. Good job...Modernist (talk) 05:11, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks! If you think the flow of the sections is ok, I'll stop swirling in my mind about that.

I'll return to the van Gogh template, in a bit. I'm still thinking about that (e.g., what steps to take next to take the paintings out of the overall van Gogh template, and how to approach so that it's a meaningful contribution over the list of works). I'll go back to your comments and keep thinking about it.

In the meantime, I'm next going to start a grouping of Wheat Fields, which appears to be the subject of a lot of paintings over the 10 year period. I was thinking of grouping them by period (Holland, Arles, Saint Remy (a specific field visible from his room: "The Wheat Field"), and Auvers) unless another way of grouping them becomes apparrent. Any thoughts about that, such as 1) does grouping by period make sense? 2) would the name be "Wheat Field (series)", where the current, specific The Wheat Field would be a section (which I would expand and refer to)? Thanks again!--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:43, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Carole according to User:R.P.D. now User:RogoPD there is a series - of Wheat field paintings. Go for it...Modernist (talk) 16:47, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi, cool. I like the idea of working on another series- it's fun. Yes I saw the exiting, specific group of paintings "The Wheat Field" that for the field van Gogh saw from his room in Saint Remy. I could either: 1) expand the article and retitle "The Wheat Field" to something like "Wheat Field (series)" or 2) make a new article "Wheat Field (series)" and refer to "The Wheat Field" for the Saint Remy section. Is there a preference?

By the way, from another talk item from my page, I'll follow up with the editor who started the van Gogh articles about the image snafu. Thanks for the suggestion!--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:44, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

anti-Semitism question

I started a protracted thread on Noleander at AN/I - I do not recall your participating;[10] the whole case has been moved to ArbCom.[11] I regret this because I never wanted this to be a personal conflict between Noleander and myself. I did wish to get the community to discuss how to recognize and address anti-Semitic editing. I know that this is a far cry from art history (although perhaps there is one fundamental issue in common: how does one interpret a text) but i think you have also expressed concerns about anti-Semitism in the paast. If you have any suggestions about how one can recognize anti-Semitic texts - in this context, how to distinguish between adding text at WP that is about anti-Semitism, or that is simply poorly-written information about Jews, and actual anti-Semitic writing, I would really appreciate your input. I think this is an issue the community has had a lot of trouble confronting, and I find it hard sometimes to explain effectively. By the way - I know you have edited the Rousseau article, does this reflect a general knowledge of French intellectual history? Do you know much about Durkheim? Thanks, Slrubenstein | Talk 13:30, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I am certainly no expert on Durkheim or French intellectual history or anti-Semitism. I certainly don't like anti-Semitism; I will look through the diffs...Modernist (talk) 15:45, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Performing Wikipedia

I finished a round of intense changes to Performance Art. Since I am no native speaker, I'd like you having a look, or two, over my plowing through the article.--fluss (talk) 19:07, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

I'll give it some thought either later or tomorrow...Modernist (talk) 22:34, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

All your better expressions and additions … Fine! --fluss (talk) 21:07, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Can you help me with a feedback regarding the article Barbara Weil? I am very unsafe about my abilities to translate to and to write in English. I believed, at least regarding idioms and style the article needs to be polished. So I tried to get corrections with the copyediting and dual fluency- boxes and other activites. I am confused, because until now there were just minor changes. Wikipedia is just slow here? Do you see much that can be said in a better style, or does it read fine, just a handfull of corrections left? Shall the boxes stay? --fluss (talk) 10:28, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Discovered the lot of changes by MrGardiner, so it happened a lot. But I still have the last two questions.--fluss (talk) 11:36, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I will take a look when I have time...Modernist (talk) 11:53, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

United Artists Rating

Dear Modernist, I make references to the rating categories only for the painters, who have unsufficient information in section "Legacy" and need additional information about art critics opinion. For example, Monticelli is not a minor figire, I am sure, but you've left that opinion and deleted my reference, and called me a spammer. I am not a spammer, I am PhD. art-critic. --Ozolina (talk) 12:49, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Your link is not necessary to those artists biographies - rather you are promoting the validity of that particular volume. Your additions appear to be spam...Modernist (talk) 13:05, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I've answered you at my talk page. --Ozolina (talk) 13:25, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 April 12#Susanne Kessler

Hi Modernist. Because you participated in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Susanne Kessler, you may be interested in Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2011 April 12#Susanne Kessler. Would you help new user Leda47 (talk · contribs) source Wikipedia:Article Incubator/Susanne Kessler so it may be returned to the mainspace? Thank you, Cunard (talk) 05:12, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, you're here!

It's always great to see you come and make my articles better!!!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:14, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Carole your articles are fabulous, wow, keep em coming...Modernist (talk) 18:15, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

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The Card Players

Hi Modernist, at your convenience, would you mind scanning an article I've created for Cézanne's The Card Players series on my work page? I mainly want to ensure the POV issues check out and everything is cited appropriately. It's at User:Chimino/Work1, thanks.--Chimino (talk) 11:03, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Excellent! Good job on an important article...Modernist (talk) 11:39, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I was actually surprised no one had created the article previously. I'm going to give Carole a chance to scan it before I publish.--Chimino (talk) 11:48, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Do you mind rating the article for the VA Project? I'm not quite certain what rates B vs C class, thanks:The Card Players (Cezanne)--Chimino (talk) 03:35, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Olivia Shakespear

Hi Modernist, I thought I'd let you know that Olivia is nominated at FAC, and hoped you might have time to take a look. Thanks. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:51, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi TK I'm about halfway through reading it; I'll probably need to look again in the morning...Modernist (talk) 23:45, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for finding the image. I'll start a page on Georgie so it's not a red-link, but as usual am multitasking and not doing any one thing well. Hopefully will get to it later tonight. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:44, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

I will re-read Olivia again probably tomorrow :)...Modernist (talk) 22:19, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your review and for making me realize we needed a page for Georgie Hyde-Lees too! Another modernist done. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 00:01, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Long time no speak

This is horrible and beautyful at the same time.[12]. How is all. Ceoil 01:47, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Yo, great to see you; and I loved that tune - really great...Modernist (talk) 01:55, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Glad you liked it, I though you might. Any interest in crashing JNW's joint later this evening [13]. Ceoil 20:38, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

I'll bring something...Modernist (talk) 22:05, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Pyramid of Skulls

Thanks for adding this to Cezanne's bio, and for all the etc. Well done, as always. After the inhumanities of the last century the painting has even more visual resonance than when it was painted--one thinks of Cambodia.

On a lighter note, I'm still totaling up the bill for damages at the party, not yet including emotional trauma. Cheers, JNW (talk) 00:44, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Really nice article, I had a friend who did a similar series - late 80s. Tough subject though..Modernist (talk) 02:24, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Saint-Paul Hospital, Saint-Remy

Thanks so much for your guidance, edits, formatting support in writing this article!! For the moment, I have gathered about as much as I could find relatively easily for the article. Is there anything that you think needs done that I'm missing (e.g., style issues, bits of information, other?). Thanks again!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:43, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Give it a rest Carole, you are doing a terrific job, I'll re-read it in a while. Come back to it after a while...Modernist (talk) 20:45, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Ok, sounds good! thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 21:25, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

The Sun Also Rises

Thanks for keeping an eye out there. Some of those additions feel as though they're end-of-semester, edit wikipedia type of work. I can't tell whether they're genuine attempts to add to the page, or to prove how bad wikipedia is by adding unsourced material. Anyway, one the IPs geolocates to Elon University; I won't be surprised to see more of that kind of stuff at this time of year. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:43, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

No problem, there seems to be a sudden surge of strange stuff...Modernist (talk) 20:10, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the review and all the help for the past year-and-a-half of so. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 23:37, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

This was my kneejerk reaction too, but I have been known to make mistakes so I looked it up. I was wrong - must have had Lady Duff/Brett in my head at the time. But I'm not sure it makes sense now, so am thinking about what to do with it. Just so you know & thanks. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 14:01, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Well like Dylan said: Nobody can be all right all of the time (Talkin' World War III Blues 1963)...:) Modernist (talk) 14:07, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Van Gogh paintings - Barnstar

		The Barnstar of Fine Arts
		Thanks for all your incredible support on the van Gogh articles of paintings and groups of paintings! I think we've covered somewhere between 150-200 paintings in total in twenty or so articles. They wouldn't be nearly as polished or conforming to guidelines without you!!! And besides, it's been a pleasure to work with you on these! Great job!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:41, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Carole, it's been a pleasure working with you too...Modernist (talk) 16:57, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Ye guys are doing great work, its a pleasure to watch. Ceoil 19:29, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Ty...Modernist (talk) 21:17, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Modernist, can you take a look at the gallery in Truthkeepers sandboxed version of the van der Weyden. I'm all for galleries, but have not hit the right note with this one. Its disconnected from the text, need to make it more integrated, less a random collection. When you have time. There is a you tube link in it for you. Ceoil 22:35, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Ceoil! I've been taking a short break to work on an article present for my mother (who needs nothing, to share with her friends of her Brigadoon) but I'll be back van Gogh-ing very soon. It's nice to know the articles are being appreciated!!!!!!--CaroleHenson (talk) 18:27, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi Carole, yeah I'm watching ye as ye work, and its great to see. Myself and Modernist have done a lot of work on the main bio, and am delighted to see the energy on the works. Almost restores my faith in wiki! Keep on going. Ceoil 07:50, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Ceoil! The two of you did a great job on the bio - I used the format\sections as a reference point for working on bios for several Wyeth painters. Great job!--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:24, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

XfD of interest

Please see Wikipedia:Files_for_deletion/2011_May_3#File:20070624_Dubuffet_-_Court_les_rues.JPG. Based on your FUR involvement on the image page, I assume you are interested in this discussion.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:51, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Blute-fin

Very cool find regarding the Blute-fin painting!!! Great job!--CaroleHenson (talk) 04:51, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Yeah but you are doing the hard work...Modernist (talk) 04:58, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Seine paintings

Hello Modernist, Hope all is well with you! You seem to be a whizz (sp?) at finding images, especially for things that aren't oil paintings, and I was hoping you could help me out by helping me find an image for Gate in the Paris ramp, 1886 (F1401). It's a really pretty watercolor and I have a write-up in the Seine article, but try as I might I cannot find this image. Do you know where I might find this? Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 22:25, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

I'll look around...Modernist (talk) 00:43, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:33, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't see it on anywhere, it needs to be uploaded...Modernist (talk) 01:51, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, thanks! Do you know a site that would be a good place to check for allowable images? If not, no worries, I'll drop it. I feel like it's definitely been given a good college try!.--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:27, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Van Gogh Early Works

Hi Modernist, You probably felt a bit at home in the Van Gogh Early Works article as I found some great referenced information from the Vincent van Gogh article. I created this mainly to remove a bunch of one line articles. Is there anything that you think needs to be done to wrap this particular article up? For now, I think I'm done with Les Alyscamps and Falling Autumn Leaves, unless there's something that pops out that needs done, I just wanted to round out the articles a bit and ensure proper linkage from the List of Works article. Thanks so much for your continual review/editing of the vvg articles!!! And, I LOVED the painting you added to Olive Trees!!!--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:02, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi Carole, once again - good job. I would like to see you add some more text to the lede; perhaps a brief description of the scenes he passed through leading up to his drawing and painting of the locals and Theo's encouragement. The sections covering in detail what you briefly outline in the lede. Carole I am very pleased with your terrific work...Modernist (talk) 13:19, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Sure, sounds good!--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:12, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Remarkable

Notice any simalarities? [14], [15]. And hello. Ceoil 03:47, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Well yeah, I guess the question now is could Freddie paint? Hmmm...Modernist (talk) 03:51, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Does it matter. He could wiggle very well on stage, and throw a good shape, and so very rocked, har. Thats prob enough for one man. He was only one man! Paul, though, was a much darker, and it seems unkind figure, I dont have my mind made up here yet, like the work - a lot, but not the man, from my diggings so far. Ceoil 04:23, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, he's a tough sell, the prick ran out on his wife and kids, screwed his friends, and was competitive and egotistical, but a great painter; really great painter and uniquely original and above all gutsy, didn't hedge his bets - he was in all the way...Modernist (talk) 05:13, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I suppose you can seperate the man and the work. Gaugain was certainly a bit of a prick, and I dont think he was a good person at all for poor Vincent, or any painter coming up after him (ref Yeats was the same). There would be reservations about Goya as a man, but I'd guess there was an element of self preservation probably to an extent we don't know about yet, or will ever know. But the integrity of the work, and the personality that comes out of it, is stellar. I ve made an advance in my taste recently, its like people who come to classic music late settle of the baroque, my 'arty' friends say I settled on Bacon and Goya, and would never advance to Cezzane and Poussin. (Well they came to music late, I came to painting late, so the bitching goes both ways he he). Yeah, Cezzane, but I can never see myself likeing such an achedimic, dry and cold a painter as Poussin. JNW hints at what is there, I don't see it, or even want to see it. Ceoil 10:57, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

No question that with Goya there is great art; he pushed the envelope; expanded the definition of what painting can be; and he made art with a conscience. Although he navigated through treacherous and dangerous political waters, his work managed to survive those deadly times. Clearly he was more successful at navigating through treachery than was Courbet who got his balls caught in a political ringer. Cezanne was also a bit of a prick by the way. A great read is The Masterpiece by Emile Zola...Modernist (talk) 11:09, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Look at what happened to Gorky under Stalin. Of that whole generation of writers, artists, and composers (all the same thing) only Eisenstein came out unscated and uncruppted by the standards of the time. Balls. I suspect Goya had giant balls, but we dont know exactly what happened with him. If he were a wikipedian we'd have to AGF, such crap! Ceoil 17:56, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Re Zola, I'll check it out, ta for tip. Cezanne was a prick? So is dylan, neil young, bowie, almost any creative type you could think of. Van Morrisson always strike me, and we talked about him before, the gap between the estatic music and the dour man (note I have a political view on him you might have guessed). I don't think, from my reading so far Mattisse was very easy to live with, and Picasso was not exactly knd to his women. Bacon was cold cold cold.[16] Lucia Freud prob worse. Jesus, these types. And such empathy in the work![17] Ceoil 11:17, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, we are a strange, selfish, and self-centered lot. When Zola got in trouble only Monet and Pissarro had the moxie to stand by him. Cezanne never talked to him again...Modernist (talk) 11:26, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

"We"? No Modernist, you are a gentleman. I like your paintings, a lot, but you are one of the kindest and most thoughtful people I've come across. That and creative is a rear combination. Ceoil 11:33, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, there is the other side of me. Although I've tried to become an exception...Modernist (talk) 11:36, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Ingre's non portraits - v nice to look at, but self important, lifeless and stiff.

There is another side to everybody. I know two other people in real life with your temperament, and they are a joy. Anyway, back on subject, was Ingres trying to be Poussin? I find Ingres endlessly facinating, but whenever text turns to his detail on history painting and his theories of art, my eyes glaze over. Ceoil 12:02, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I was introduced to Ingres when I was 15, and Poussin a little later. With Ingres (think ang) I appreciated the line quality in the drawings which eventually leads to Matisse and Picasso. Truth be told - Poussin never struck a chord with me - his paintings always seem too busy. While the Ingres paintings are individual powerhouses - a little overdone - but powerhouses, initially influenced me around '68 but after that I always tried to incorporate the everyday into my work unlike either of those guys...Modernist (talk) 12:25, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Re over cooked. I think one of the problems with the history paintings is that he was too concerned with colour, while the composure suffered. Sometimes, and I dont have any interest in these works at all, there are brilliant passages, with gorgeous colourisation, but they dont work as a unified whole. I havn't gone though a Mattisse phase yet, so I have that to look forward to. A troubled soul, and had a very difficult time of it. An outcast and an embarrasment to his family before he hit sucess. Thats familiar from the story of friends of mine who stuck with music after their early 20s. A rough, tough, thankless path. Ceoil 17:36, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Re Matisse - As much as I love Picasso I think Matisse is my favorite painter in the first half of the 20th century, although Picasso is still probably my choice, but it's close...Modernist (talk) 21:36, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

And the second half? Ceoil 22:28, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Pollock, de Kooning, Kline, and Hofmann, followed by Diebenkorn, me and some of my friends...Modernist (talk) 22:31, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

For me its Freud, Balthus, Maggie Hamilton and Jenny Saville. Saville for many reasons. Anorexia is a horible thing, and its in my face at the moment (not me). Also Saville is very painterly, something I dont get from ye Americans. She is the same age as me, more or less, and has a punk astethic. Very English/Euro centric selection there, I know. I saw two Pollock's in Venice two summers ago and they floored me. What physicality. Cindy Sherman is a big thing with me, and I almost prefer leafing through photography catelogues that paintings. Ceoil 23:59, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

There's alot of great art; I prefer abstraction...Modernist (talk) 00:47, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Poussin has always been my least favorite old master, with the exception of Jan Gossaert. And though I've always had unapologetic tendencies in my preferences and practices, the older I get the less apt I am to take up any banners. I.e., I know enough to know I know nothing. JNW

Yeah, the older I get the less crucial any of it seems...Modernist (talk) 16:31, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

I no longer live and die from painting to painting; it used to seem very important. Now some pictures work, some don't, and the angst and enjoyment are nicely muted by a less strident self-absorption. Likewise, the recognition one so strongly desired in youth is seen for the salve to insecurity that it is. Still it is fun to look at a picture with a sense of passionate engagement similar to what we felt when much younger, though now tempered by time. As the above discussion evidences, the artists may be long gone, but their presences are here, always (I'm on the Maine coast this week....had hoped to paint outside, but the weather's keeping me indoors to wax philosophic-like). JNW

Enjoy the grand countryside, in Maine, I'm looking forward to going out west soon...Modernist (talk) 21:54, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

The world needs both painters and philosophers, JNW. But if you only expound when its raining, you might end up with some very strange followers.[18] Ceoil 20:41, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

The kid knows how to dress. The last few days I did go outside, because the world needs more fog-bound rain-steeped coastal paintings. Standing on slippery rocks by the ocean, the air so saturated with moisture that each stroke of paint merely displaced an equally full dollop of rain water from the canvas. Ridiculous, but cozy indoors, and it's possible to find a good lobster roll, even this early in the season. Just stay away from those bearing the stamp of a particular Maine outdoor wear establishment intent on buying up all the good property here and replacing it with their merchandising--their lobster rolls are awful. Hope things are brighter on the Emerald Isle than they are on the east coast. JNW

By the way, Ceoil, check out my favorite misanthrope Walter Sickert, protege of Whistler and Degas, now credited as a predecessor of Bacon and Freud. JNW

Wasn't he the guy they thought might have been Jack the Ripper?. Actually a pretty nice painter though [19]...Modernist (talk) 02:55, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, in part because of paintings like The Camden Town Murder series, and his fascination with the darker side of London life, but the claims don't hold up. JNW

It's a sordid tale; although I think Cornwall was off her rocker...Modernist (talk) 03:19, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Am looking at a lot of Sickert in the last few days. I like them a lot. The nudes espically, are like the pounds of flesh you see with bacon and Freud. He seems to have been very much detatched from his models. Ceoil 21:56, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Van Gogh drawings

I know that you're interested in expanding the VG drawings and watercolors article. (I try to remember to move over images from articles I've worked on.) Anyway, I stumbled upon this article at the Met in NY that you might enjoy: Vincent van Gogh (1853–1890): The Drawings.--CaroleHenson (talk) 07:03, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

plural or singular Gogh?

If paintings of Amsterdam by Vincent van Gogh is OK with a plural in the title, why must still life by Vincent van Gogh (Holland) have a singular? See also this exchange. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 09:25, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

The key to my comment was the (Holland) that you left out when you made the name change. Frankly Still life paintings by Vincent van Gogh (Holland) works too...Modernist (talk) 10:27, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Naming

Please see the latest update - well really a question to wrap things up at: User talk:RHaworth#Moved Still Life of Vincent van Gogh (Holland). Thanks again for everything you do! You're amazing!--CaroleHenson (talk) 13:36, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Still life paintings by Vincent van Gogh (Holland) and Still life paintings by Vincent van Gogh (Paris) works for me...Modernist (talk) 13:40, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Great, thanks for the quick reply. Do you mind responding about Amsterdam on RHaworth's page, then we can close out the issue, call it a day, move on... (I'm punchy in a silly way at the moment. Not meaning at all to be rude or appear inpatient.)--CaroleHenson (talk) 15:04, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Barnstar of Fine Arts
		If anybody deserves this Barnstar, you do Glic16 (talk) 20:48, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you...Modernist (talk) 01:16, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

The Magdalen Reading

Thanks for the support on The Magdalen Reading. I'm really pleased with how it turned out. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 14:35, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

You guys did a good job...Modernist (talk) 16:27, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Well Ceoil did the heavy lifting on this one, but it was a fun page to work on. More complicated than it seemed it would be. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 16:34, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

M, I'm going to sandbox a working draft for Vincent, extracts from the article that we can work through in bite sizes, and talk through on the sandbox talk, without cluttering the main talk page. Did you see TK and Liz are part of the team? The old FA team or what? I spent today throwing down a few sources on Ingres I had bought a few weeks back, but will be back on Vincent shortly..... Ceoil 03:42, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Oh and by the way, I could do with a few tunes, if you have any.[20] Ceoil 03:43, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I think we definitely need to improve the text, some better text in the lede, and some better writing throughout. I have also asked Carole to join us. I think now that we have so many articles to link to we will have an amazing article. Already we have the best, I have looked at all the other VvG articles - the Italian, German and French are good but ours is better. Great tune, thanks for Neil Young...Modernist (talk) 04:11, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

You know when my hard drive died two months ago I lost my entire music collection. Am building it up since, as it occurs to me, downloaded a bunch of Johnny Ray and Geno Washington last night, or in other words, bombard me with tunes please man! [21] Ceoil 10:20, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

[22]. Ceoil 14:54, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Visual Arts Ambassador for WikiProject MoMA

Hi Modernist. I don't know if you noticed my comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Visual arts#Seeking Visual Arts Ambassador for WikiProject MoMA; are you interested in possibly filling this role? With your subject interest and great experience in the wikiproject, you would seem to be an excellent fit :)--Pharos (talk) 17:48, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

What is entailed? What would I be expected to do?..Modernist (talk) 17:50, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

The main goals of the Visual Arts ambassador would be to interface between WikiProject Visual arts and WikiProject MoMA on article creation and improvement, responding to requests from museum staff, and assisting students engaged in MoMA educational outreach.--Pharos (talk) 18:21, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

As an advisor, I can do that...Modernist (talk) 18:23, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Awesome, you are now officially our Visual Arts Ambassador. Welcome to the team! (of which you are now member #5) :P--Pharos (talk) 18:31, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

BTW, I was thinking we should maybe start up a couple of joint task forces between WikiProject Visual arts and WikiProject MoMA, kind of like Wikipedia:WikiProject Philosophy/Aesthetics. What do you think about one task force for 'Modern artists' and one for 'Modern art concepts'?--Pharos (talk) 19:41, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

The VA project isn't broken, why mess it up?...Modernist (talk) 20:41, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

The Modern has a lot of problems by the way...Modernist (talk) 20:56, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Either way M, I can't think of anybody more suited by temprament or experience to the role of 'ambassador'. You'll be just fine, and will benifit both sides. Ceoil 23:07, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Well, the taskforce(s) idea is for a place to organize students we're recruiting through MoMA's educational outreach, who would be working on a broad range of general modern art articles, and not just on paintings and sculptures that happen to be in MoMA's collection.--Pharos (talk) 22:25, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Just popping this up for your thoughts, I think this comment might have gotten lost in the talk page shuffle...--Pharos (talk) 18:12, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Van Gogh

I keep seeing Van Gogh articles appear in my watchlist. Want help?--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:30, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Giotto

Wotchit! You'll have the dreaded Attilios on your case. He's almost got me bluffed, where galleries are concerned......

Amandajm (talk) 13:43, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks but someone's got to do this...Modernist (talk) 13:44, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

MoMA FA Prize list

It's been drawn from this, which is what the MoMA ppl like I guess. How did you select the additions you added to the list?--Pharos (talk) 22:18, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

My additions come from my familiarity with the collection, the museum, wikipedia and what in my opinion is important, I suspect that my opinion and the 'MoMA' people differ somewhat philosophically...Modernist (talk) 22:33, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

I notice that you have discovered

User:SarahStierch. Me too. Here is my thought. We allow her as much room as she needs to maneuver in and a fair amount of time to do so. She is in an (opinion) interesting position and let's her do what she sees fit. we need to keep the usual wikipedia oversights happening, but always let us keep in mind that she has good intentions and ultimately might move our section (the art world) a step upwards. Okay so she goes in a tags 10,000 articles in a week. Done. Then what? LIfe is supposed to be interesting. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 04:46, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I hear you...Modernist (talk) 04:49, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

THUD . . . . (Sound of me hitting my pillow after too much . . . . . ............... life.) Carptrash (talk) 04:59, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

That's what happens...Modernist (talk) 05:01, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Vince

Incoming. And tune[23]. Ceoil 17:10, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Fantastic...Modernist (talk) 17:22, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Two things - about the Neil Young tune up-page - reminded me of living in Boulder and going up the mountains to the tiniest little hamlet with the tiniest little bar. Young would show up and croon for the evening. Those were good times. Getting off the mountain was always an adventure though. About the dates - I've found everything to be very strict at FAC these days and there is policy about strong ties or something. I had to change all the dates in my Hemingway articles - I'd formatted in European style and obviously they should be in American. So I'd hold off before making those changes, because chances are very good we'll be asked to change back again. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:10, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I won't make any more changes based on brit or amer, although I am re-editing; my edit changes from here on out won't be based on language...Modernist (talk) 21:15, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

My father was born in Boulder, nice Neil Young story...Modernist (talk) 21:18, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Nothing about it in his page and can't remember the name of the place. It was a secret and truly a nightmare getting there & back - those are the kinds of roads where four wheel drive is relevant and you do need a driver to stay sober for the night. I never saw him in concert; never needed to. Bonnie Raitt showed up there, & Karla Bonoff. Now I'll have to search the web to see if I can find this place - splinter in my brain. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:24, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, years ago we'd spend the summers in the wilderness of Southern Utah, driving this winding dirt road into the mountain wilderness, sometimes with the old Dodge van half off the road, and when it rained it became really hairy...Modernist (talk) 21:29, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

It's always real hairy when it rains there. It was more hairy in Colorado in the winter - I remember being the driver one time, probably in my VW that for some reason was better than a 4 x 4, and wondering whether I'd get us off the mountain. But the music was worth it. For some reason, I'm thinking it was a by-invitation only sort of place, so if you were invited, you went. I was very young. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:41, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

It helps to be young (no pun intended), what with the rattlesnakes, lions, steep cliffs, and lack of electricity and indoor plumbing; or indoor anything for that matter; we pretty much stopped going there after my kids were born...Modernist (talk) 21:46, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

West of Boulder on Gold Run Road is Gold Hill Inn. That's the place. It's a very scary looking road on the google maps, curvy as hell. It's an old mining town, half ghost town. Your dad probably would have known about it. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 00:50, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

I will try to remember, when I go to Colorado...Modernist (talk) 00:56, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Wrap-up of a couple of things

Hi Modernist, I'm working on wrapping up a couple of things regarding Van Gogh and interested in your thoughts about two things:

• I had started an article about his mistress Sien on my workspace - but did not get real far on it. If you think it would add some value (i.e., 6 or more on a scale of 1-10), I can wrap that up. If it won't add much value, I'm happy to have it deleted altogether or rewrite as a stub.
• There were 158 Van Gogh pages (which included some talk pages) that I was watching previously, but a couple of days ago I removed most of them from my watch list. It seems that in most cases any edits that were made to the articles were either 1) helpful to the quality or content of the article or 2) vandalism, which you caught. I rarely changed any of the edits. So the question is: would you recommend that I add some or all of them back to my watch list to catch the rare occassions, or not?

Thanks so much Modernist!--CaroleHenson (talk) 00:03, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi Carole, I suggest adding all of the VvG articles and various talk pages to your watchlist and try to finish your Sien start, it looks pretty good so far and I think your work on Vincent has been incredibly valuable. once you launch it I'll edit it a little. Basically having those items on your watchlist will keep you in the loop if any drastic changes occur or if something arises that draws you in again, I have more than 3000 pages on mine...Modernist (talk) 02:54, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, if you think it would be valuable I'll work on Sien and get it to startish stage (it's such a sad story). I'm having fun with Benson at the moment, but I'll pick away at Sien. Thanks for the kind words! Yes, I'll add back in VvG articles to my watch list. Oh, my goodness 3000 pages. I miss stuff at 195 pages - I'm amazed and once again impressed!!! Thanks, Modernist!--CaroleHenson (talk) 03:28, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

I finished drafting the Sien article. There's of course lots more information - a ton in the Zemel book alone. I said so on the Discussion tab should a Modernist Jr. or Carole Jr. come along interested in doing so.

I had a snafu with the move: so I've requested the blank article page for Sien Hoornik (Van Gogh series) be removed. Until that page is removed and I can move the article, it's still in my workspace, feel free to make whatever changes you'd like.--CaroleHenson (talk) 04:56, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

I'll take a look - no rush though...Modernist (talk) 12:10, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Ipigott has suggested that the article title does not contain her last name: Sien (Van Gogh series). Either way is fine for me. Do you have an opinion?--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:41, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Just - Sien (Van Gogh series) seems good...Modernist (talk) 16:23, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good, done.--CaroleHenson (talk) 19:09, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your copy edit of the Sien article! Great catches!--CaroleHenson (talk) 20:50, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Rubens Belgian?

Hi Modernist, On the Peter Paul Rubens page, it says that his nationality was "Belgian". Belgium was only founded in 1830 so it seemed quite absurd to me to call him that. By that rational we should call Julius Ceasar "Italian" and Vercingetorix "French" and so on. That is why I deleted this anachronism, but you seem to believe it should remain there. May I ask why you think so? Greetings Timusuke (talk) 13:29, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. My take on these dilemmas is while you are technically correct we live in a different geographical map today. In today's world - where we currently exist; we understand Rubens to have been Belgian. If in Rubens time he was of a place of a different name - my suggestion would be to indicate that. If during his day he was from 'Westphalia' you might say that; adding a (modern day Germany) or Belgium proviso...Modernist (talk) 13:40, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

I've added "modern-day Germany" to his place of birth and "modern-day Belgium" to his place of death. I'm not sure what his nationality in modern-day terms should say since he was born in Germany and died in Belgium. I don't think 'nationality' was as official back then as it is now, but at least now the readers can judge by them selves. Cheers! Timusuke (talk) 16:47, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Well done...Modernist (talk) 17:02, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

I need help

Modernist, can you weigh in on the images on List of large triptychs by Francis Bacon. What is the point in an article like that if its not illustrated. Deeply fustrating and from unthinking bot like people. I had an admission from one last week that they behave above legal requirments, ie they get off on it, somehow. Ceoil 12:25, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Take a look at WP:NFCC#10c that is not optional. Every file must have a rationale for every use. Blindly re-adding without fixing the problem is not acceptable. ΔT _{^{The only constant}} 12:29, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Blindly deleting without fixing the problem is less acceptable. Power hungry often? Acceptable from the likes of you is a fucking joke. Ceoil 12:38, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Clearly each image needs a Fair use Rationale, I'll see what I can do...Modernist (talk) 12:34, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Modernist, Please dont just copy/paste rationales. A correct rationale explains why a particular file is needed on a particular page. The copy/paste rationales that you are doing are not really sufficient ΔT _{^{The only constant}} 12:45, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

It's a beginning - the rationales can be re-articulated to a more specific description, however at present they serve as important visual examples to flesh out the meaning of the article. I will re-write them...Modernist (talk) 12:49, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Ignore that prick. Modernist my thanks - [24] -the tune that turned me on to 70s funk, and later deepened my love of Acid house. Ceoil 13:56, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Fools and kings decide ways to live your life [25]. Ceoil 14:10, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Oh well, all's well that ends well...Modernist (talk) 14:32, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Speaking of Jimmie Rodgers [26]...Modernist (talk) 14:32, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

It really bothers me that you have better knowledge of music than i do. But take care, and thanks my friend. Ceoil 14:49, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm better lookin' too. Try this it's been a while [27]...Modernist (talk) 14:51, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

In your dreams. Would never admit but find this very affecting. Here is one from Cork[28] - I really love that band but shagged the guiratist' g/f back in the 90s so they'e not so hot on me. Oh well. Ceoil 15:18, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

I hope it was worth it :) - This is just great (my second favorite version of this song) [29]...Modernist (talk) 15:31, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

This is my favorite version - [30], and this classic [31], he was an old friend [32]...Modernist (talk) 15:37, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Well she did have big .....eyes. Dylan is playing Cork on Thursday and I have tickets. Hoping for Stuck Inside Of Mobile With The Memphis Blues Again, or lost classics like [33], or some post 2000 tracks (the classics are worn and tired to me now after 20 years listening, and his last 3 albums fresh and equal to my ears as the first 5). Some chance, but no harm in hoping eh. Ceoil 16:04, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Bty, have listened to the Dave Van Ronk 5 times since you posted....brilliant. 16:08, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

I used to talk with Dave about art and music; he once said painting is about space and music is about time here's some more good old stuff [34]...Modernist (talk) 17:37, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Here's a couple more: [35], [36] and my favorite of his songs [37]...Modernist (talk) 17:52, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Well my collection expanded today thats for sure and got some great stuff; alls well that ends well indeed. Here is a real heartbreaker.[38]. Ceoil 19:41, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

A poignant portrait of Shelley Winters...Modernist (talk) 19:48, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Jesus Modernist, you knew that off the top of your head? I'm impressed. Listening to at the moment. What a guitar figure. Robert Quine is god. Ceoil 19:58, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the nice tune from my neighbor, ty...Modernist (talk) 20:03, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I do know, and am somewhat embarrassed now by mentioning lou. You were there, lucky you! Quine was an exceptional musician who met a sad end. Thank you for the help on the Ingres portrait by the way, very nice additions, there is a lot to say on its art-historical inception (late neo-classical, old gaurd) and reception and legacy, esp as a tool of policical satire, though I've found only scraps on that so far. It will be the next FAC, in a few weeks once I sort out thoes bits, if your interested in helping and working together again. Ceoil 20:06, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

My bad. Good job so far on the Ingres...Modernist (talk) 21:29, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Vincent is on again Modernist, but I want to finish Bertin first. I did not ignore the article since the last round of work we did, and have built and read a lot of books since then. Ceoil 23:34, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

The real challenge and the fun will be in keeping all the paintings, because that's what the guys entire life was all about...Modernist (talk) 23:36, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Lets cross that bridge when it comes. I hear you, and am on side, but we have to weigh the benifits of possibly being main page and having a beacon article. My mind is open, not decided, and tending towards your view. I might have appeared as defeatist when we talked about it earlier. Sorry 'bout that. Ceoil 23:42, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Keep in mind the article was visited 266,180 times in May and that's mostly just to look, read and see the work...Modernist (talk) 23:48, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

As opposed to what else? But yeah, I do know. Note Ive always tried to cram as many images into any page as I can, and got away with a lot on The Disasters of War. Thats my form, on your side here. You know I'm loyal to my friends. Ceoil 00:09, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Dylan was excellent last thursday, bty. I only knew about five songs, all early 70s, but everything he played was with passion. He got great press here after, and we are all talking about him since. A lot of Dylan fans have crawled out of the woodwork, my bosses' boss for example, who was not just bullshiting I learned from close questinig, and actually saw Rory Gallagher twenty two or three times in the mid seventies. Wow. My father has been a huge Dylan fan sice he was about 14 in 1964, finally vindicated as he says himself. A good week for Cork. Ceoil 14:29, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Sounds great - very cool. I ran into Dylan 3 times in '64-'65. First time in Lawrence Ferlinghetti's City Lights Bookstore in North Beach, San Francisco (he was alone); then a few weeks later in Mike's Pool Hall a few blocks away from City Lights (he was with a bunch of guys and they started playing pool. I made friends with one of those guys - [39] a few years later); then a few months later as I was going down the stairs to see Lightnin' Hopkins in the Cafe Au Go Go [40], [41]...Modernist (talk) 15:04, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Modernist, on the one had you are my closet colleborater on wiki and I'm very fond of you, but when you say that you met Dylan 3 times, understand I also, somehow, haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate your guts! Keep the links coming, regardless,its a real education for me, I listen. Ceoil 15:24, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

We're recruiting art lovers!

Archives of American Art Wikimedia Partnership - We need you!

Hi! I'm the Wikipedian In Residence at the Archives of American Art and I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about art and quality content to participate in furthering art coverage on Wikipedia. I am planning contests and projects that will allow you access, no matter where you live, to the world's largest collection of archives related to American art. Please sign up to participate here, and I look forward to working with you! SarahStierch (talk) 00:14, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I already am quite busy, good luck on your endeavors...Modernist (talk) 12:43, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Your thoughts on art critics added to college alumni sections

There is a debate at Illinois College about if art critic Brian Sherwin should be included in the notable alumni section or not. The person had removed Sherwin from the list stating that he does not "fit" and continues to insist that he be removed. That editor has a clear connection to Illinois College because he is an alum and member of a society at Illinois College. That concerns me. It also concerns me because the same editor has described Sherwin as just a "blogger" when clearly he is more than that. This is the first time I've had trouble adding a notable writer to the alumni section of a college article. Do you have any experience with situations like his? Are there different rules for notability for alumni sections? I think a few people feel that a notable alum is only someone with historic connections to the college while others feel it can be anyone who is considered notable by a wider audience. One editor said that he is making a "stand" on the Illinois College article because he feels that notable alumni sections on Wikipedia are out of control and should only include historic alum from what I understood. Others are scratching their heads because notability is notability no matter how you try to slice it. What do you think?SunRiddled (talk) 02:00, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Generally these issues become subjective and troubling because there is no clear cut mark by which someone is deemed to be notable. In my opinion Sherwin belongs but he is borderline, certainly not a household name; however the best way to settle the dispute would be to try to establish consensus among the editors working on the article...Modernist (talk) 02:10, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

That is the problem. It is split down the middle currently. We made a request for comment but it only attracted one editor. That editor did not understand why there is even a debate. He felt that Sherwin should be included. I think everyone is getting tired with the back and forth. I would just let them do what they want to do but the editor who first had issue is clearly a COI in support of what he feels best for his alma mater and society. After 5 years of editing combined on two accounts he finally admits to his connection to the college and only because I brought it up based on him using his legal name and providing a link on his user page that made his identity obvious. I'm trying to assume good faith but it is very hard to do at this point. I did the math and found that both he and Sherwin would have been at the college for one year at the same time. That concerns me. I've never ran into a situation like this before and I really don't know what to do.SunRiddled (talk) 03:02, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

IMO he should recuse himself; or at the very least he should respect the opinion of others who maintain Sherwin's credibility as a notable alumni having been established. The deadlock should allow Sherwin to remain until a clear cut consensus develops one way or the other. I hope it works out...Modernist (talk) 03:30, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for the barnstar, Modernist. It has come at a time when I'm not feeling too good about my participation here, so it has helped a lot. All the best, SlimVirgin ^{TALK|CONTRIBS} 05:33, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

I know how hard you work...Modernist (talk) 11:16, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Bio tag - Elizabeth Hickok Robbins Stone‎

Thanks so much for adding the bio tag on this article. I'm guessing you sensed that there is more to come in the bulleted items to demonstrate the article's worthiness. Much appreciated!--CaroleHenson (talk) 16:55, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

You're invited to the New York Wiknic!

You could be having this much fun! Seriously, consider coming.

This message is being sent to inform you of a Wikipedia picnic that is being held in your area next Saturday, June 25. From 1 to 8 PM or any time in between, join your fellow volunteers for a get together at Norman's Landscape (directions) in Manhattan's Central Park.

Take along your friends (newbies permitted), your family and other free culture enthusiasts! You may also want to pack a blanket, some water or perhaps even a frisbee.

If you can, share what you're bringing at the discussion page.

Also, please remember that this is the picnic that anyone can edit so bring enough food to share!

To subscribe to future events, follow the mailing list or add your username to the invitation list. BrownBot (talk) 19:15, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Joan Miró at Pierre Matisse Gallery

Hi Modernist, thanks for adding the info about Joan Miró's work exhibited at Pierre Matisse's gallery. It seemed to me, though, that much of that para was pretty tangential to Miró (e.g. listing the other artists exhibited there). Do you agree? I'm pretty new at wikipedia: I'm happy to offer to condense it; or maybe you'd like to rework it? Cheers, Mozzy66 (talk) 10:32, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Done...Modernist (talk) 11:12, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, that was quick! Mozzy66 (talk) 12:17, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Henry, The Feline Fiber Artist

Can we have an article on Henry, The Feline Fiber Artist? Bus stop (talk) 20:32, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Nice! I just spent a small fortune at the vets last week having one of my cats operated on. Go for it if you can find some refs. Maybe we can help him get a gallery...Modernist (talk) 20:37, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

This Henry seems to have that Jackson Pollock individualism about him. Bus stop (talk) 21:04, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm, Henry Pollock, might work, catchy...Modernist (talk) 21:19, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Vincent

Hi Modernist, I just wanted you to know that I have a method to my madness; the rewrite of the first para was simply a sketch - I intended to swing back through and tweak and flesh out again. I have a tendency to work that way. I was concerned that the first sentence was much too close of a paraphrase to Pomerans first sentence, though it's hard to reword with originality where, when, and to whom he was born. Also if we're preparing this for FAC we have to address the issue of sourcing, but I'll put that on the talkpage. Anyway, I just ran out of steam last night, and I think in the future should make drafts in the sandbox. But at this point I've read a lot and need to start adding content while I have it in my head. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 12:54, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

I re-added the first Vincent van Gogh, who is an essential inclusion, and the reason for the VvG museum ref is the picture of uncle Cert...Modernist (talk) 13:06, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't leaving him out, simply ran out of steam. But anyway, I'll but the para back to where it was before I edited, and go back to reading. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 13:08, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Well, it seems I lost on the infobox thing, grand, the arguments for keeping were thoughtful, thats life, I'll live. Here's a nice tune[42]. Ceoil 19:54, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Oh well, lots of stuff to do - [43], even better - [44], and this [45]...Modernist (talk) 20:07, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Cheers mate, going through a big Dylan phase after the concert, and you are one of the few people I know who follwed him post blood on the tracks. Some niceness[46]. One of the rare times that sentimality is done well. Though better here[47] such a great mixture of tenderness and cruelty, and when we were children we were all cruel let be honest. Ceoil 20:24, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Tough love, I guess - try these [48], [49]...Modernist (talk) 20:43, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Here's 2 more great ones:[50], and - [51]...Modernist (talk) 21:06, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

I could only open Oh Sister, the other three were blocked from 'my country'. Yeah O sister is great, know it. Not sure if you might like[52], but is great and throwing it out anyway. Ceoil 21:16, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

New Order is new to me, Too bad you couldn't access those others, - here's another take of one [53] and Kristofferson doing his own song [54]...Modernist (talk) 21:30, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Painterliness

What do you think of adding this to the article on painterliness? I don't have a source supporting that it is "painterly" but I think it is obvious. Bus stop (talk) 01:06, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

I think you can add it, and elaborate on brushwork, surface and texture...Modernist (talk) 01:12, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

I think it is usable too. I found it at Ceoil's Talk page. It is a term (painterliness) that has varying degrees of applicability in countless paintings. I think this is a particularly good example of a high degree of painterliness. The appearance of the paint on the canvas in the painting looks almost like the paint that might be found on a painting palette in use—which is to say a real mess, but a beautiful mess. In fact that painting is more painterly than this painting palette. Bus stop (talk) 01:52, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, basically it visibly has painterly texture, brushstrokes and surface almost a visual dictionary definition of the word. That painting is also on the Matisse article and the Hermitage museum article...Modernist (talk) 01:58, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing it up. It looks good. If there are other adjustments you feel should be made, feel free to. But until and unless someone comes up with a better example I'd say it is a good illustration of painterliness. Bus stop (talk) 03:47, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Modern art stubs and/or task force

I thought you would be interested in the discussion going here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/2011/June.--Pharos (talk) 19:46, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Georges Schehadé

My article about Georges Schehadé was finished about an hour ago. User:Cygnbleu — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cygnebleu (talk • contribs) 14:58, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Bravo! Modernist (talk) 15:11, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Two things

Modernist two things. I'm very much coming around to your way of thinking re image sizes; the gallery on the bertin page looks far better post your enlargement and has convinced me. Remember on the Magdalen I reduced it back down after you introduced the template? Changed my mind about that. Applying the logic to some stubs I have eg this is a good improvement. Second, sorry about the hassel last night. We are all wound up about the page. I think its better if I stay off the VvG talk for a long time. I'm certainly sticking with the project, the page is very fine, but as Im easily wound up, Im not a good influence there. Any disagreements between us two is better on our talks, were we always seem to get on more than fine. I dont want to do anything too drastic to the page, just cover some gaps in coverage, move refs to book sources, and tighten the language, but the page is off my watchlist, so activity on the talk is unnoticed by me. If I get in trouble there over edits, you might give me a heads up, but is best for all if i minimise by involvement in the talk discussions. That sound fair enough. Ceoil 22:25, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, its best to let things cool down, it is a very good article now and hopefully it'll get there, I'll take a look at the link, I like the bigger images...Modernist (talk) 22:29, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Cheers. tune obvious sure, but that does not make it any less jaw dropping each time I hear it. Of all the requiems, [55] is probably the most affecting imo. Its both grand and patethic. Ceoil 23:11, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Ty hopefully things will settle down...Modernist (talk) 23:51, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

As a rule of thumb I try to keep those galleries at 4 because on most smaller screens that's all she wrote...Modernist (talk) 00:05, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Not exactily definitive[56] but in Cork. The sound was fantastic and he seems reasonably engaged. Did you see him c 1990 when he was touring in a hood and with his back to the audience. Grim, and about £100 for the pleasure of not seeing him. Ceoil 00:27, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

The genius in him looked pleased. I think the last time I saw him he played the Beacon with Patti Smith, long time ago...Modernist (talk) 00:38, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Butting in - this is really impressive. I saw him, I think in Boulder, during the black hood phase and was desperately disappointed. Much much better. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 00:53, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, sometimes he's really great and sometimes he's not quite...Modernist (talk) 00:59, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Ping. This tune is nasty for sure but just great. Went on the town more than a few times with the singer Tom, back in the 90s. Ceoil 19:23, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

It's ok...Modernist (talk) 21:33, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Life as I know it

consists of arriving home after a week or two one the road at 5 AM today, finding the valley I live in still filled with smoke from the surrounding forest fires - then getting up at 10 am to get to work and getting a phone call informing me that the geezer rock band I play in has a happy hour (2 hours) gig starting exactly when my work shift ends. My brain is dead and going to get deader before it gets clearer, but I will then jump in at the Talk:Sculpture of the United States discussion with whatever seems appropriate. Perhaps some source is the way to go? Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 19:17, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

I hope the smoke clears soon in New Mexico - I will be there at the end of this month...Modernist (talk) 21:11, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Me too. Where will you be? Carptrash (talk) 22:35, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Santa Fe, and probably Taos...Modernist (talk) 22:44, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Image upload question

Hi M, I want to upload this ukiyo-e print by Yoshitoshi. The best version I can find seems to be on Flikr and the license on the flikr page says "all rights reserved" although it's an 1889 print. I've never uploaded from Flikr. Is it okay to upload with a pd-art tag, or is more required? I'm hoping you'll have the answer to this. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 20:21, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I really can't say definitively sorry, but give it a shot it's from 1889, why not...Modernist (talk) 20:42, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I just found this page saying that the owner won't allow downloads, so it's prob better to find it elsewhere, otherwise someone will pull it knowing my luck. I'll poke around and see where else I can find it. Thanks anyway. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 20:51, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Help with DYK

Can you maybe help me push Object (Le Déjeuner en fourrure) a bit further along, so that we're sure it's good enough for DYK within the time limit? Thanks!--Pharos (talk) 17:30, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

You've got enough there now - good job, that piece is long overdue here...Modernist (talk) 17:42, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

VvG

Modernist, I've been thinking about the VvG article and fwiw I think you and Ceoil should try to make a push for FAC, if only to keep the page more stable and easier to tend. I do think it's very close, some copyedits, tweaks, and a bit ref clean-up would probably do the job. I'd be happy to help in the capacity of ref tidying, etc., but no heavy lifting, no star, and keeping my bossy pedantic nature under wraps. Anyway, think about it. In the meantime, a tune for you. [57]. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 16:18, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you TK, I'll give it some thought. I am busy these days, and I need to travel out west toward the end of July for a few days, early August might work for me, we'll see what Ceoil's time is like then too, - here's one for you - [58]...Modernist (talk) 16:36, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks M. I've been cleaning the basement the past few days, (cooler down there), and came across both of these - in cassettes! Prob if I dig hard enough, I'll find the vinyl too. Yikes. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 17:32, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Back again - first I envy you for going west & hope you enjoy it. I have a spectacularly open weekend, and am tired of cleaning the basement (hiding there because it's hot here and the air conditioning is broken; mucho dinero to fix) and am stumped with Murasaki Shikibu so decided to go for a light copyedit/ MoS fix on Vincent. Let me know if I change the meaning or make any mistakes. Also wanted your opinion, for the Murasaki page, I'd like to load it with art b/c so much is available, and am trying to decide which of these images of Sei Shonagon to upload. Do you by chance have an opinion? Would like to mix up the artists and periods as much as possible. And, if you're interested could use help with image placement - at this point have more images than text, but the text will get there eventually. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:05, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll take a look...Modernist (talk) 18:39, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

They are very beautiful, I am not really versed in this artist, although I did see the movie 'Pillow Book' a few years ago. I will take a look concerning placement...Modernist (talk) 18:44, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks so much. Was just looking Hiroshige's page - it's an art form I very much like. I think it's why I so enjoyed working on Edmund Evans - something about the look of woodblocks, when done well, intrigues me. I never saw The Pillow Book - will have to watch it now that I know the background. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:48, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Just so you know, I have Hulsker, Pomerans and Silverman at hand. Library closed today, but will go out and see whether any bookstores carry Pickvance - obviously I need his book too. I'd thought I'd take a VvG break, but am thinking the tidying doesn't really disrupt and is helpful, so should probably carry on, since I have time for it. What do you think? Truthkeeper88 (talk) 14:37, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate the additions and your help there especially dealing with this current disruption. There are so many books, the Pickvance books - I have 2 are helpful...Modernist (talk) 14:42, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll be back at it in a little while. I'd like to leave the sourcing to you and Ceoil, but it's helpful to have books at hand when points are challenged, or to source some of the unsourced bits. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 15:01, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

I hit a gold mine - the used book store is having a summer sale. For a very good price ($6 each) I picked up a copy of Pomerans (and now I can fix the pagination for this), the double volume of Walther and Metzger, van Tilborgh & van Heugten, and biography by David Sweetman (?). Was tempted to sweep the van der Weyden section too, but restrained myself. Anyway, it is helpful if we have as many as possible paper sources at hand. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 16:36, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good, I was thinking about reading Lust for Life (I've read about 35 pages) but it's so much speculation as to be somewhat useless for references. It's a great movie though, and I'm enjoying Stone's fleshing it all out. I'm re-reading John Rewald's long essay Theo Van Gogh As Art Dealer in his Studies in Post-Impressionism - I just learned that Adolphe Goupil partnered up with uncle Vincent and began to buy and sell original works of art, (as opposed to just his brisk business in high quality prints) and Goupil hired Frenchman Michel Knoedler to open an operation in New York. Which eventually became the famous NYC Knoedler Gallery...Modernist (talk) 16:45, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

The US operation emanating out of the 1860s eventually opened the door to the American market, American collectors acquiring and amassing fantastic collections especially in high quality Impressionism and Post-Impressionism in the 1880s and 1890s...Modernist (talk) 16:51, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

I think it's all very fascinating actually and yesterday as I was working through the page, wondered what happened to Vincent's collection. Then last night, on my never-ending search for images of the Lady Murasaki, I came across this. The group at Tanguy's so much reminds me of the group at Silvia Beach's bookstore, only that was almost half a century later. Realized looking at the Tanguy website that I stopped to look in the window, very late one night, the last time I was in Paris. I visited Silvia Beach's bookstore the same night and stayed in a hotel on the street where Hemingway and Ezra lived - this is before I began working on any of these articles and knew any of this, but it's odd stuff that I love learning about. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 17:05, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

That's a great link, especially in light of what you were wondering yesterday about those images. It's amazing what happens with our memories. We forget and then we see something that opens the floodgates to our memory, so many things in life change, and wipe clean the circumstances. A few months ago I was wondering what happened to the flower paintings Vincent showed in Paris that were confiscated and auctioned off by bill collectors...Modernist (talk) 17:14, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

M, I think we should put back the section that was archived yesterday. What do you think? Truthkeeper88 (talk) 14:27, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Go ahead if you think so...Modernist (talk) 14:35, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

I think we need the sources and if we get more eyes it gives better context, so I've gone ahead and done it. I need to work a bit today, but will be peeking in on-and-off. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 14:45, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

In googling van Uitert I noticed this from Jstor - [59]. It's fairly long and I've only scanned quickly but it looks interesting. I'd be happy to send your way if you'd like to have it. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 21:31, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I would love to have it...Modernist (talk) 22:20, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Incoming. It's a pretty big file. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 22:28, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Ty...Modernist (talk) 22:32, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Just so you know, I have to work this morning and hopefully in the afternoon can provide cites for the section I commented out. But the heat is so intense I might leave Vincent to his fate, and find a place with AC to hang out. We'll see. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 13:16, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

An FYI on on this AN/I thread. You should have been notified. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 13:32, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Ingres

I'm going to move this forward in the next month or so; Wehwalt has agreed to do a PR, which is great, but I would prefer to time the review to a weekend when you are around as I would appreciate the help. I know you have something coming up, so can you name any weekend in the next month or so that you are free? No pressure, and here is a nice tune. Ceoil 20:26, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

The weekend of the 12th-14th can work...Modernist (talk) 21:21, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Its a date so. Ceoil 22:34, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!

For adding the painting of Monsieur Seligmann to the company article =) SarahStierch (talk) 00:10, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Not a problem Sarah...Modernist (talk) 01:02, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Hey

Nice tune Modernist [60]. You owe me one back? Ceoil 03:00, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

I cant excuse the way FM has treated you in the last few days, its appaling and way way above the beyond, but I want to reach him before it goes too far, we two have history, and this is partially my fault, it started on my talk, so I want to make peace with him. Can you bear with me. It'll be cut and dry. Either we can talk and move on, or we cant. Ceoil 04:51, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

I liked the tune, fwiw. I won't say much except this - it's worth a try. Certainly it began on your page and spread from there. Certainly M and I have taken a lot of flak. We'd all like to see this go away, so let's see what unfolds. I've woken up to it every day for days - today will be another day. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 05:18, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Ye both did very well in dealing with him, showed a very good knowledge of the sources, and a lot of patience. I think by the end he had nowhere left to go and went the route of discrediting ye, which did not work either. I have tried to end it, offering an olive branch, though I dont condone his approcah for one minute. Ceoil 14:15, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Archive all that crap please, thanks for the tune...Modernist (talk) 14:18, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Checking in

I haven't seen you on my watchlist for a few days and was a little worried so peeked at your contribs. This is really nice - very clean looking and a nice color. We still have to do one for the modernists too. In my ukiyo-e searches I've realized that we have a lot pages here - see the category and I think we should have a template for them as well. As soon as I get out from under writing about the Lady Murasaki I think I'd like to start on some templates and am giving you advance notice that I'll be by to bother you when I get stuck with mark up. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 18:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Maybe when I come back - it'll be a project...Modernist (talk) 18:35, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good. Turns out I'll probably be tied up with work for a few days or more anyway. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 19:59, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

I see talk of 'when you come back' and a 'will be back soon' header above. Enjoy the holiday and here is a tune for you, Ingres FAC waiting for when you get back. .[61]. Ceoil 22:41, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Robert Alda's wife is Joan Browne

Last name was spelled Browne. Look at Alda's obituary.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=j6QyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ju8FAAAAIBAJ&pg=1295,2267061&dq=robert+alda+dead&hl=en

Learn to use google news search.- William 00:04, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

I found more on Joan Browne. In this article on Alan Alda, it says she was a poet/vaudvillian

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=BI8cAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HGEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5251,4453828&dq=robert+alda+joan+browne&hl=en

A bio on Alan Alda, which I put in a reference for his article, said she was a showgirl- William 00:24, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Fine, make an article then...Modernist (talk) 01:13, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

question

Do you know why Dürer left no self-portraits after 1500. Im up to my knees with sources, but cant find an answear. Its really bugging me. Ceoil 21:40, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

There are inserted ones in larger paintings, and prints, are there not? Perhaps he just felt he wasn't so pretty any more? Johnbod (talk) 22:04, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

My take is similar to Johnbod's - he wasn't inspired anymore; couldn't top his youthful brilliance...Modernist (talk) 22:17, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Fine, though I think he had a face and bone structure that could take age well. His father was a very handsome man indeed, even in old age, if we are to believe the son's representations. Ceoil 22:22, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Have you seen this [62]?..Modernist (talk) 22:24, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

No, but its extreamly interesting even from a scan. Thanks. Ceoil 22:28, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Man of Sorrows is 1522 is it him?..Modernist (talk) 22:26, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

It is sure. Ceoil 22:29, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Here is another interesting link [63]...Modernist (talk) 22:55, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Sound, thanks. I have a lot to go with now. Ceoil ^sláinte 23:25, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Lou

Saturday tune [64]. I dont think much of the lyrics, very early 90s enviromantal hokum, but that guitar line floors me. Also note the album cover hillarious haircut shown in the vid. I was 16 when that album came out, and Reed was a just god to us, he began everything, to my generation music began with the first VU album. But the fucker had such a daft haircut. We let it go though. Ceoil (talk) 18:23, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

A couple of years ago [65]...Modernist (talk) 21:31, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, good, but I never warmed to Laurie Anderson though I see the pair are well matched. I saw Lou once, in Stockholm in 96, and he was dissapointing with his reintrepration of his old songs by singing them out of tune. He played sweet jane, who loves the sun and Halloween Parade (Aids) which is probably Robert Quinn's crowing moment. But Lou was being a prick singing out of tune and Quinn wasn't there and I was lonely. Ceoil (talk) 21:42, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Something completely different [66]...Modernist (talk) 22:03, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Not a fan of clapton save two or three songs. When it comes to guitar solos, Neil Young's mimialist work in the middle of this takes some beating. Still my favourite Neil album, out of a huge, major, body of work. Have you read the shaky bio? Thoes boys were smoking some really heavy skunk at the time, and grieving of course, and it shows esp in ambluance blues, which is such a mental song its almost scary the way it turns from sentimenal to brutal realism, and back again. Ceoil (talk) 22:30, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

He's just great - talkin' about smoking hmmmm [67]...Modernist (talk) 22:44, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Not to mention [68]. Ah Johnny Winters and McKinley Morganfield were such a gem when they were together. Ceoil (talk) 22:51, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

These guys couldn't sustain [69], but they had it all going...Modernist (talk) 22:58, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

There is also this. "Eh hello. my names tim and I'm a criminal, in the eyes of society I need to be in jail for the choice of herbs I inhale. Let's talk space and time, I like to get deep sometimes and think about Einstein." Ceoil (talk) 23:01, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't turn out good most times [70]...Modernist (talk) 23:22, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I only took cocaine maybe five or six times, was never really attracted to it; I was young when E came out, and of course in our climate mushrooms were a big thing and went very well with the music of the time. Long time ago. Here is a very plesant stoner song. [71]. Ceoil (talk) 23:29, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Full circle [72]...Modernist (talk) 23:36, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

A tune that sends spikes to your bones. Cale never did better, to be honest I don't rate his post velves stuff that highly; apart from the two nico albums. Ceoil (talk) 23:48, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree...Modernist (talk) 23:52, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I feel uncool saying it, but new age is still my favourite velves song. Its so affecting, and what a great build to the corus. In company I would say waiting for the man, but in reality....new age. Ceoil (talk) 23:56, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I consider I'm Waiting for the Man really excellent. Can be heard here. Great conversation heard above. Bus stop (talk) 00:45, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

If I had to pick - Take a Walk on the Wild Side [73], Sweet Jane [74], and Femme Fatale [75]...Modernist (talk) 01:22, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

You're written in her book; You're number 37, have a look lol Bus stop (talk) 01:45, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Always was a sucker for this cover: [76]. JNW (talk) 13:23, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

This is not bad either[77] but the origional is so pure and perfect it will never be matched. Ceoil (talk) 13:42, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Can I switch to white noise/white heat which in its mix of fuzzy nose and beutiful, almost beach boys like, melody was responsible for a whole gendre in the late 80/early 90s[78][79]. And note how in the last link the band have a guitarist (in red) as hot and cool and iconic and distant as Nico. Ceoil (talk) 09:32, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Not crazy about this genre...Modernist (talk) 12:10, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I didn't expect you to, to be honest. Here is something else instead [80][81]. The last one, they way it segues, is one of the most sublime things I ever heard. You can see the way the band are similing even before the audience claps. Ceoil (talk) 12:24, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Both are great ty...Modernist (talk) 12:36, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

This is not too shabby, but it is over 8 minutes long. Bus stop (talk) 17:15, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't think this is too unfunny. Bus stop (talk) 18:27, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I like this. (Article found here.) Bus stop (talk) 19:51, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Murasaki Shikibu

Hi M, busy page in the past few days and I see lots of tunes to catch up with. Was wondering if you'd have a moment to have a look at the images & placement at Murasaki Shikibu - I'm a little out of my depth. Ceoil shoved around some images and good as he is, I think you're better. I plan to take this to FAC fairly soon, so feedback very much welcome. Thanks. Truthkeeper (Talk) 17:32, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I'll take a look...Modernist (talk) 18:06, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

It's so much better, between your formatting, the templates, and Ceoil's tweaks. It looks better and is easier to work with the text as well in this format. Thanks a lot, I really appreciate it. Adding, I just noticed you added alt text - that's an enormous help! Thanks so much. Truthkeeper (Talk) 21:59, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Glad to help, it's a beautiful article...Modernist (talk) 22:17, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, it's much more beautiful with your help - much more open. Frankly it was really bothering me; I wanted to have the images, but they seemed to be getting in the way. Truthkeeper (talk) 13:00, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

It looks great. I hope you weather this storm - I'm in zone A; and it's scary...Modernist (talk) 19:02, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

I was just thinking about you! I have an absolute pounding migraine - started a few hours ago, I guess when the storm moved onshore. I'm west of it, so won't get the pounding you'll get, or are getting. I've been watching the updates on the wiki article here which is kind of fun since we have a bunch of dedicated hurricane writers. Truthkeeper (talk) 21:05, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

American Folk Music Revival Article

Hello Modernist - a few weeks back I (mistakenly) rv'd some of your edits to this article before I understood what you were up to - I plead ignorance because there were no edit summaries for your edits. You responded with the edit summary in which you quite logically stated that the "other performers" "see also" category to which you have added was for figures not mentioned in the article. Several of my adds were in fact mentioned and wikilinked in the article already. My mistake, and I will be taking them out this week some time. regards, Sensei48 (talk) 23:28, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the input, and your excellent work...Modernist (talk) 23:30, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Robert Delaunay

Hi Modernist, I noticed you partially undid an edit I did about two months ago where I added a picture of Delaunay's signature to the infobox. Any particular reason why you removed the signature from the article? Superp (talk) 09:04, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, actually I realized after a while that the infobox was not an artist infobox. So I reversed myself and switched to an artist infobox. The visual arts project has vetoed using signatures in the infoboxes for many different reasons...Modernist (talk) 11:55, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

I did not know it was vetoed (and I do not agree). But why did you not keep the image in the article? Superp (talk) 12:18, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

For the same reason the VA project doesn't include them in infoboxes...Modernist (talk) 12:20, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Copyright violations, forgeries, inaccuracies, ugliness, and various other reasons...Modernist (talk) 12:28, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Interesting. We still host and publish the image today, so none of the above is nullified by not allowing the img to be included in the article. We show a signature of Goethe, but nobody expects every scrap of paper the man touched to show a pixel perfect reproduction of that instance of a signature. I'll let it rest for now, but this blanket veto makes little sense. Switching to LUDTOAB (let's-discuss-this-over-a-beer) mode: If an artist thinks it makes sense to cover part of his visual work with his signature, I would say that signature is meaningful. I know a work by Kees van Dongen signed "le peintre", which I think says something about how KvD saw himself. In the case of RD and SD, an artist couple who cooperated so closely she even "touched up" some of his work after he died, signature sometimes is key in understanding who did what and getting to grips with their Werdegang. The man will be dead for seventy years in a few months. Wouldn't a gallery of the three or four typical signatures he used be a great addition? Cheers Superp (talk) 13:50, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Can I jump in? (Especially as I heard beer mentioned.) I argued against the inclusion of signatures in artist Infoboxes. In my opinion the signature is so unimportant that it doesn't warrant inclusion. I think it is really arguable what relationship a signature bears to an artwork, even a painting displaying considerable individual flair. In such a work the real "signature", even if only a metaphorical signature, is in the painting itself. Many artists don't sign their work, and there are reasons not to sign artwork. The signature can attest to who made the artwork, but the signature cannot attest to any level of quality attained in the individual artwork bearing the signature. I feel that emphasis placed on the signature contributes to emphasis placed on the artist; I feel this is emphasis misplaced. I feel that the more proper place for emphasis is on the individual work of art. Even artists reputed to turn out good work occasionally turn out duds. In fact the frequency with which good artists turn out poor paintings is probably a lot higher than many of us would like to acknowledge. But the same signature probably appears on all the paintings—good and bad alike—of any given artist in the habit of signing his/her works. I hope Modernist doesn't mind me giving a speech. Bus stop (talk) 21:02, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

It's something I agree with, signatures are not works of art...Modernist (talk) 21:06, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Couldn't resist

...but sometimes they are the only thing which makes something art. And neither are houses, plaques on walls, monuments, spouses, children, cars, teachers, friends, dogs, or graves. Yet we show pictures of all of those in articles about artists, and WP would be an arid place without them. It engages the brain, supplies information beyond just the verbal, makes pages less imposing for the verbally less gifted, and actually informs and helps us understand. So I think we can establish that many WP articles about artists show images which do not depict art, and that is a Good Thing.

Meanwhile, none of the words depict any art at all, but they often label art. Labelling Sonia Delaunay as "Jewish" or "geometric abstraction" certainly does not help me directly experience her work. When I look at something she did in the 1950's after I read the WP article, I will look at art by a Jewish woman in her sixties who lost her husband and survived WWII. If we want people to only look at Pure Art, without any preconception, we should have no articles about artists at all, just galleries of art (with blacked out signatures). Let's not treat our visitors like little children. I am a split brain patient that way: I value the pure experience without prior knowledge. I first saw a Delaunay when I did not know it was a Delaunay and did not know who Delaunay was; it just went straight to my heart. On the other hand, I am curious and want to learn the who and why and when, and that is what WP is for. People visit WP not to look at art without preconceptions, they visit to learn something about the art or artist which by default will change the way they look at the art.

I may not like it, but signatures play a role in art, that is why they exist. I don't think showing a Citroën badge implies any car with that badge will not rust, or a 2CV with a Mercedes badge is not a Citroën. I just says Citroën often signs its work that way. Useful info. Superp (talk) 13:48, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Do an article about it - pros, cons, forgeries, verifications, fingerprints, etc...Modernist (talk) 13:50, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Hey, if you do not want to talk about it, just say so. Superp (talk) 14:35, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Don't want to talk about it...Modernist (talk) 14:40, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Gone. Superp (talk) 14:52, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Reverts

STOP your reverts now, read WP:NFCC CTJF83 00:54, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

I know that page well all of those images have every reason to remain in the article, they are important paintings with valid Fair Use Rationales...Modernist (talk) 00:58, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

I started a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Museum_of_Modern_Art before I saw yours. CTJF83 01:02, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Three-quarter view

I think this is a good illustration of the "three-quarter view" in Portrait painting, although it is not a painting. That article (Portrait painting) already contains a lot of images. Do you think it would be a good idea to add the "Philip Burne-Jones holding cat.jpg" to it? I think a notation could be added under it—something to the effect that, although not a painting, the pose struck is that of a "3/4 view". Bus stop (talk) 17:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Add it here Portrait demonstrating the 3/4 view and then add a link from Portrait painting to Portrait...Modernist (talk) 18:42, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

I've done it. What do you think? Any changes would be welcome. I think it is a nice photograph. I think it is illustrative of 3/4 view. Bus stop (talk) 13:20, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Looks ok to me, well done, wish it was a painting though...Modernist (talk) 13:54, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Moving pronunciation to infobox

I think it's premature to do this - there's talk about an RFC on the matter here, but it's early days. Personally I'm against anything that expands and entrenches infoboxes, for artists anyway, though I agree the phonetics in the first line is a pain. I'd like to see it tucked away at the end of the lead perhaps, or by the birth at the beginning of section 2. Johnbod (talk) 12:59, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

OK I'll hold off. I don't like wading through that gobbledy gook in the lede sentence...Modernist (talk) 13:03, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Barthe

The text sandwich you created at Art Institute of Chicago has been remedied but you really should move the statue back to where it is discussed. Alanscottwalker (talk) 20:00, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

That article is a mess - be my guest. I can't do anything with it and I tried...Modernist (talk) 21:22, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

The Barthe sculpture is probably a copyright violation in any case. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 21:39, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

That is a problem and it's a minor work taking up an enormous piece of the article - and I had to add the caption earlier. The article doesn't need the sculpture and that section of text is out of proportion to the rest of the museums collection...Modernist (talk) 21:41, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Ingres

I'll throw Bertin up for PR mid week, and prob go for FAC a week ot two after that, depending on how much feedback I get. Will you keep an eye. I could only pay you back with tunes.[82]</ref> Ceoil (talk) 02:46, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye on it - and look it over again, but next week is really busy for me...Modernist (talk) 02:49, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Leon Russell is wonderful, blast from the past...Modernist (talk) 02:55, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Note how Russell is smoking a huge joint and JJ Cale is so handsome and cool; he must have been almost 50 when that was recorded. Wow, if I was a girl I'd totally go for him. Ceoil (talk) 10:28, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

A very underrated tune. Ceoil (talk) 03:37, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Hopefully I'll be back to normal, whatever that is, the week after...Modernist (talk) 03:40, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

There is no rush man, long as you drop me a tune every so often. Our taste dovetails, and I always listen. Ceoil (talk) 03:41, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

The video is great, been a long time, I owe you two, ty...Modernist (talk) 03:46, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

It never ceases to amaze me

as to how much patrolling lists such as List of sculptors take. Thanks for being there. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 14:20, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

It does go on and on and on...Modernist (talk) 14:27, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

	The Genji Award
	Thanks for helping with image placement in Murasaki Shikibu, which has made the page look so much better, and from which I've finally learned the multiple image mark-up. Truthkeeper (talk) 17:31, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you TK, great job...Modernist (talk) 17:46, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

There is a fancy Sandy Denny box set coming out soon; fine I suppose if you have the cash. But apparently lot of unreleased jems there. Sessions, B sides, abandoned collaborations. Ceoil (talk) 04:58, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Request

Modernist, I dont think M Bertin is there yet, I see a lot of gaps esp in reception and I'm waiting to afford books before I take it further. In the meantime, I have a lot on The Entombment (Bouts), and although its early stages yet, I'm asking for the heavies to take a look before I go further. So if you have time....would be appreciated (once again!). Best.[83][84] Ceoil (talk) 10:33, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Your reverts involving File:Frida Kahlo (self portrait).jpg

Hi Modernist. Why did you revert my edits involving File:Frida Kahlo (self portrait).jpg? Per Free-Use Criteria Number 8, "Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding." and per FUC 1, "Non-free content is used only where no free equivalent is available, or could be created, that would serve the same encyclopedic purpose.". The use of Kahlo's self image, currently fair-use, fails both in Self-portrait and History of painting. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:21, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi Crisco 1492, thanks for your question. This issue was discussed at length in 2010 and it was agreed that the image would remain on only those three articles. At the time it was long discussed with many of the members of the project who focus on fair-use. The image was deemed to satisfy this Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding. and was voted acceptable in those select cases. Kahlo was an important painter who was known for her self portraits in particular and she is especially important to the history of painting. I am going to return those fair use rationales and images to those articles. Thank you...Modernist (talk) 23:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

User artmart

Hi, I am a wiki user, and i have specialized in art ..I know u have a good position of contribution to wikipedia. for few days the articles which i have edited you are undoing my additions...if there is any problem in my addition, plz guide me as i can also serve my contribution to Wiki. Thanx.--Artmartxx (talk) 18:40, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

You've made a lot of mistakes. In particular you start sections and leave them blank. You have added the template Reflist without supplying a separate section for references - as you just did here. I will guide you if I can...Modernist (talk) 18:48, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank u , I need ur guidance....--Artmartxx (talk) 19:45, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Joan Miró and Qrpedia

Hello! I've seen that are you are a member of the Wikiproject: Visual Arts and I would like to ask you for some help. The Wikipedia in Catalan have reached an agreement with the Joan Miró Foundation: They will include QRpedia codes next to the highlights of his upcoming exhibition about Joan Miró. It's the most important exhibit in the last 20 years, and has passed summer at Tate in London, this autumn will be in Barcelona, and then will go to NGA in Washington. The articles have been made in Catalan and are being translated into English, and I would like you to help us whether monitoring the translation, translating articles or expanding or translating them to other languages. The more languages ​​we have, the better the experience for the user. You can find more information about the Wikiproject here. Thank you in advance!.--Kippelboy (talk) 11:44, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Outline of painting

I noticed that the General painting concepts section is pretty large. What subheadings could it be broken down into? I look forward to your reply. The Transhumanist 02:01, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

That should help...Modernist (talk) 11:06, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

That helps a lot. Thank you! The Transhumanist 21:08, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Category:Surrealist artists

At some point, I would like to discuss this category with you. I went through and removed several artists who were erroneously categorized here, but there is one has been restored. If you would, can you take a look at Naohisa Inoue, and tell me what you think of his being categorized as a Surrealist artist? Being influenced by Surrealism is not the same as being a Surrealist, i.e., being associated with the movement. A few newspaper reviews are not adequate to make the connection, in my opinion. In general, all of the Surrealist categories need a thorough going-over. As I say, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Cheers! ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 16:30, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

As far as Naohisa Inoue and those influenced by surrealism or associated with it probably should have a separate category; they aren't surrealists. I haven't spent any time on those categories however I have spent a lot of time working on this: [85], there are a few liberal inclusions like Duchamp and a few others that can be argued out but in the main it seems ok to me...Modernist (talk) 17:54, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

The template looks good. You're right about Duchamp, he's borderline, but not ridiculous. Why the redlinks, though?

The categories are a different story. It is simply too easy for people to add articles that do not belong, and they are difficult to police. Having the cat. on one's watchlist is not all that helpful. I am not going to remove Naohisa Inoue again, because I already had a heated exchange with an admin. about it, and he insists the individual is a Surrealist. The refs supporting it are not convincing. And on it goes, this thing of ours. Cheers!

Yeah, we're fighting a losing battle sometimes with these empty power brokers (?). Most of the redlinks in the template simply need articles, if you google those names some have articles and/or mentions in the literature. Although I think I will remove Jean Genback because I haven't found much at all concerning him...Modernist (talk) 02:45, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

No, Jean Genback is not a name I am at all familiar with...

A way has to be found to be able to watch changes to categories, I do not know what it might be, but it needs to be done somehow. A lot of my time recently has been spent policing categories for inappropriate articles, or for duplication when articles are over-categorized.

In closing, I am perplexed by the fact that I added the comment above with no signature. It must have been late, and I was editing while half-asleep again... alas! ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 15:15, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh, one other thing about the template. Would it not make sense that the individuals listed in the category would be identical to those in the template, less, of course, the few redlinks in the template? This would seem to be a justified move. Though, perhaps, discussion at the category talk page might be in order. ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 15:18, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

The template might be useful as a failsafe checkpoint but the categories seem much broader - I'll take a look when I have a chance...Modernist (talk) 17:50, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I have now reconsidered this, having spent a few days moving things around in the categories. There are figures strongly associated with Surrealism --- patrons, for example --- who do not belong in any of the subcats, and probably would not be appropriate in the template, unless a special field was created for them. So, yes, the template has a tighter inclusion criteria, as it must.

I am considering creating a subcat for Surrealist magazines, as there are, I think, eight articles. I migrated them all from the main cat into the Surrealist works subcat, but I think a more specific subcat is justified. ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 16:20, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Good idea, there is a complex of surrealist satellite material...Modernist (talk) 21:06, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

This is new territory, I have never created a category before. ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 18:00, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

A beer for you

Thankyou for participating in my request for adminship. Now I've got lots of extra buttons to try and avoid pressing by mistake... Redrose64 (talk) 15:50, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:The Musical in NYC Oct 22

Wikipedia:The Musical in NYC

You are invited to Wikipedia:The Musical in NYC, an editathon, Wikipedia meet-up and lectures that will be held on Saturday, October 22, 2011, at the New York Public Library for the Performing Arts (at Lincoln Center), as part of the Wikipedia Loves Libraries events being held across the USA.

All are welcome, sign up on the wiki and here!--Pharos (talk) 04:42, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Break a leg...Modernist (talk) 21:21, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Lists of Russian people

Just curious — surely the template, which is a navbox to various lists, should only be placed on lists and not articles about individual Russians? For example, Vladimir Nabokov is an article about a writer; it is not a list of people. Xanthoxyl ^< 05:29, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree and I disagree - in some cases I think the template serves as an important link between certain artists and the various lists...Modernist (talk) 11:47, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Brave Destiny

Note that RepublicanJacobite accuses me of personal attacks while calling me a sycophant! Amusing!Immunonuclear (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:44, 30 October 2011 (UTC).

Some music

This is good. Bus stop (talk) 02:35, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Another good tune. Bus stop (talk) 02:50, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Ty - good stuff...Modernist (talk) 02:55, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Yup. Bus stop (talk) 03:53, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Art movement

I'm trying to alphabetize the lists and complete them, but my edits keep getting cancelled because you are in there editing at the same time. I'll let you finish whatever you're doing with the lists, and finish alphabetizing them some other time. OttawaAC (talk) 14:06, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Lists of Russians

See Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2011 November 14#Template:Lists of Russians. --Philosopher ^{Let us reason together.} 22:04, 14 November 2011 (UTC) Edit on behalf of User:198.102.153.2 who couldn't leave the notice due to semiprotection.

Disambiguation link notification

Hi, this message is to let you know about disambiguation links you've recently created. A link to a disambiguation page is almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. For more information, see the FAQ or drop a line at the DPL WikiProject.

Greenwich Village (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)

was linked to William Ryder

Any suggestions for improving this automated tool are welcome. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 23:52, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Hemingway template question

Hi Modernist - you know about templates so I was wondering whether it's true that the color of a template is standard as per this comment? Baby blue doesn't seem right for EH and I'd changed it but have been reverted. Truthkeeper (talk) 22:41, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

TK the color can change - check out the colors on the templates on William Blake, Vincent van Gogh, El Greco and Surrealism - the Surrealists template, to name a few...Modernist (talk) 23:07, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks M. I thought so. I wasn't in love with the sort of khaki color I had there but liked it better than the baby blue. Thanks for commenting on the talk there. Btw - did not realize that Seán Hemingway was a curator at the Met, and that he's a redlink. I'm doing some long overdue clean up. Truthkeeper (talk) 23:14, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't crazy about that Khaki color either - pick a better color...Modernist (talk) 23:16, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

What sort of colors do you associate with EH? I can try to play around but would love to have you help. Truthkeeper (talk) 23:21, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Try this - #E1A95F - Earth yellow - Earth yellow is one of the twelve official camouflage colors of the United States Army...Modernist (talk) 23:31, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Modernist. It looks very nice. I'm taking a break. Truthkeeper (talk) 23:38, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

It looked nice while it lasted. Sorry for posting here and pulling you into this. Truthkeeper (talk) 23:48, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

{ec} That's what colouring templates is about: playing around. Alarbus (talk) 23:33, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it isn't. We're trying to build an encyclopedia and considerations of accessibility are not to be lightly dismissed. Modernist, you have been told already that the colour #E1A95F fails to meet contrast requirements for WCAG 2.0. You may check for yourself at http://snook.ca/technical/colour_contrast/colour.html that the contrast ratio against a blue (#0645AD) link has only a contrast ratio of 4.08, below the WCAG 2 AA Compliance level. One of the reasons why we use default colours for templates is that those colours are very well-tested on multiple skins under a wide variety of conditions to meet accessibility needs. The default colour has a contrast ratio against a blue (vector skin) link of 5.54, easily exceeding WCAG 2 AA. The US Army has its reasons for its camouflage colours, but compliance with WCAG guidelines is not one of them.

I should not have to point out to an editor of your experience that edit warring is no substitute for reasoned discussion on the talk page. It doesn't take 3 reverts on your part to make an edit war, and I assume you already know that. I will add that it is also inappropriate to template an editor with whom your are engaged in edit warring, as this may be viewed as an attempt to intimidate the other editor. I trust you are able to return to the talk page in a constructive frame of mind now that you are more clearly informed of the problems that unwarranted deviations from default colours can cause. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 00:42, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. As I've said that color, selected by me in haste; doesn't really concern me - it can be adjusted, it can be changed, it's not an issue. The issue is that particular editor's unwillingness to realize that the color actually can be changed. The only issue is finding consensus as to which color works best. When someone reverts 3 or more times - it's time for that template, be it from someone engaged or be it from someone uninvolved, the result usually stops the edit war or at least it give pause to its continuing...Modernist (talk) 00:52, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

We're finished with this. If the people who actually write the words in the encyclopedia are given no respect then there's really no reason to be here. I've put back the color as was. No one bothered to explain - which would have been nice. Truthkeeper (talk) 00:56, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

TK please don't overreact, just a little nonsense, much more important issues to deal with...Modernist (talk) 00:58, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm not overreacting. I was happily gnoming, something I rarely have time for, on a rare day off. I make a single edit and get attacked and cause an edit war and you get an message that we're trying to build an encyclopedia. Three of the stars on my page are Hemingway related and have represented an enormous amount of time and effort. The color of the template has sparked lectures from two administrators. I'm not happy about that. No one bothered to explain. We were bouncing around ideas which is what talkpages are for. Anyway, baby blue is fine, though if contrast is an issue I don't see how blue on blue is a good contrast. But what do I know. Truthkeeper (talk) 01:05, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Tk - Rexx is not an admin, and the other guy is a newbie, both relative newbies; for what it's worth - you and Ceoil might vote to change the color and maybe we can get consensus there and pick a good color...Modernist (talk) 01:12, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Dianna is an admin. Truthkeeper (talk) 01:20, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah and she gave us some reasonably good input about contrast etc. my choice of color was too hasty...Modernist (talk) 01:23, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I'm sorry and apologize for pulling you into this. I had a very unpleasant and painful day and was just kicking back and trying to relax but my bad mood seems to have spilled over. I'll be back another day. Truthkeeper (talk) 01:41, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

For what its worth I see some bits of nonesence, some misunderstanding and some heated words, but no bad faith on either side, at worst a misadventure. I dont think there is any bad guy here on either side, this can be worked through, prob without too many broken bones. Ironically Modernist, I was going to approach you for advice on another related colour issue and you have good eye; the bars on the "Timeline by year" template in the Early Netherlandish painting article is a garish green, would like to get a kind of mat red. Any ideas? I promise there is not any latent bloodbath I'm not telling you about in the article's history ;) Or am I?? Cheers, and he he. Ceoil (talk) 01:28, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

It is an ugly color but I'm not sure where the actual chart lives, if I find it I'll try to change it...Modernist (talk) 02:01, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

I couldn't either. Would appreciate the help. Ceoil (talk) 02:13, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

This looks great! Truthkeeper (talk) 23:50, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Help me out over there, whenever you feel like :)...Modernist (talk) 00:03, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I will. Not a ton of time at the moment, but by the weekend I can help. Btw - I hope you have a good Thanksgiving! Truthkeeper (talk) 00:10, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Same to you and all my friends - Happy Thanksgiving...Modernist (talk) 00:11, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Back atcha, Modernist. Happy Thanksgiving. :) Kafka Liz (talk) 05:53, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Have a good one Liz...Modernist (talk) 12:30, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

I dont really know what holiday it is, but have a good one Americans! And best from me too. Ceoil (talk) 22:19, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Doron Braunshtein

You're about an hour ahead of me on this. What are people thinking?— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 20:41, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm glad you joined in too...Modernist (talk) 20:42, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

There's at least one IP involved too, see here.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 20:55, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Good catch...Modernist (talk) 21:02, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Using "what links here" off the actual page. Ilse Koch, for god's sake.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 21:04, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Brooklyn Museum

whats wrong with you man.They are from online gallery of Brooklyn Museum.Once you see the source of images.Then tell why you revert my changes.--Risingstar12 (talk) 02:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Noway is not a clarification.give clear clarification.--Risingstar12 (talk) 02:09, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Ok i agree with you. then what to do.--Risingstar12 (talk) 02:13, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I'll take care of it...Modernist (talk) 04:45, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

James Joyce template

Thanks for the message. I was sure you had a good reason for what you did, I just couldn't figure it out. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 19:56, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Malik, I'm not sure myself at this point, your revert is just as well...Modernist (talk) 20:12, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

"Integrity of the picture plane"

I find at History of painting, Western painting, 20th-century Western painting, Abstract expressionism, we have the phrase "...while the integrity of the picture plane became a credo of the Color field painters..."

I only just noticed that because I was thinking of starting an article called "Integrity of the picture plane". It is a famous phrase, I think attributed to Clement Greenberg.

I can't seem to access the whole Clement Greenberg essay, I think called "Modern Painting", in which he uses that phrase. Do you know of any good secondary sources speaking about that concept? Thanks. Bus stop (talk) 18:15, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

The Greenberg sites seem to be down; I can't access it either; I suspect that it will be back up eventually. I'll take a look around for another source - your idea sounds good to me...Modernist (talk) 19:26, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

It's back up [86]...Modernist (talk) 22:21, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not very up on Greenberg- to what extent is this the same as truth to materials? (i.e. the support is flat, therefore the painting should appear flat) On another note, the article on truth to materials only mentions architecture, but I thought the term originated as a tenet of Brancusi, Henry Moore, and other Modern sculptors. Hmmm. Lithoderm 22:58, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Greenberg is very much worth reading. His essays are outspoken, valuable, and in some cases right on. I read the essays in art and culture years ago - this site [87] is a good place to access his work; Terry Fenton was a big Greenberg exponent. I think this New materials in 20th century art like truth to materials needs serious help, if you feel like it...Modernist (talk) 23:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Lithoderm—Medium specificity would seem to be a related consideration to Truth to materials. I wasn't aware of the "Truth to materials" article. Thanks for alerting me to that.

Modernist—thanks for those links to the Clement Greenberg's essays. He seems to use the phrase "integrity of the picture plane" just once, at least in the essay called "Modernist Painting", and yet the phrase, with quotes around it, gets 45,000 Google hits. That seems like a lot. It seems to be the pithy phrase that others have seized upon has having great significance. I'm wondering if a good definition of the phrase is available anywhere. I could wax eloquent about what I think it exactly means but that may be WP:OR. Is there any way to write an article with a title Integrity of the picture plane? It would seem like a good idea because the phrase seems to mean so much to so many people, and yet a good definition or explanation may be elusive. but I haven't really done enough research to conclude that. I checked the MoMA web site—I was hoping to find a sensible definition there, but I didn't find it. I will keep looking. Thanks. Bus stop (talk) 00:34, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

This isn't bad, if it qualifies as a reliable source. Bus stop (talk) 01:17, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

(Edit conflict)Bus Stop: As integrity of the picture plane seems to be a version of medium specificity as elaborated by Greenberg, it may be best to expand that article first and split off the sections if there's enough material. I could also add some to medium specificity on truth to materials. I'm looking at references now, including this entry.

Modernist: Yeah, it looks like all of these media-related articles need work: history of media studies, media studies, and The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction are sad jumbled articles, especially the latter in proportion to its importance. I'll take a look at them, but I'm more interested in finishing some German-English translations. Nude Descending a Staircase (collaborate?) and the Darmstadt Madonna are high on my list. As for Greenberg, I'll give him another shot... I think he came across as a tendentious blowhard when I read him in high school. Lithoderm 01:36, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi Litho, Greenberg definitely had his good moments - Later Monet is an essay I admire among others, [88], also an essay he wrote on aesthetics - pretty late was really worthwhile as well as some of his more major stuff. Nude Descending a Staircase sounds like a good choice if we can round up a few others like Ceoil and Liz and JNW. Bus stop - elaborate on this article Picture plane adding to it as much relevant information as you can find including the integrity of the picture plane as a concept...Modernist (talk) 03:30, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

If I can find his essay about aesthetic experience online I'll post it - I read it years ago in an Arts Magazine; he was still alive - it might've been from a lecture...Modernist (talk) 03:39, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I think using the Picture plane article to speak about the phrase "integrity of the picture plane" is a good idea. Bus stop (talk) 04:27, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Just so you know, I've made some edits to the articles Picture plane and History of painting. Bus stop (talk) 03:23, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Looks ok...Modernist (talk) 13:59, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Al Durah case

Hi, the material introduced is very well sourced. English is not my natibve language, so I probably mispelled, but the references and contents are acknowledged by serious sources in France. Thanks. - TwoHorned _{User_talk:TwoHorned} 09:05, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

The Letters

Have wanted to start that page since July and feel better about myself having done it before the end of the year. Thanks for adding links, cats, and nav template. I ran out of steam. It's very stubby, but I think has potential for a slow build. I love his letters, and they definitely deserve their own page. Truthkeeper (talk) 13:49, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

You made a good start, glad to help...Modernist (talk) 13:51, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

A long way to go, but it's good to have a start. I hate to bring this up, but I think the template might need to be toned down a bit. I can't go through another wiki fight over colors, and if all the templates are being fixed then somebody will get to this eventually. This is the tool I used to find the grey color for EH. It's actually kind of fun. The lighter colors seems to be the ones that are more acceptable. Truthkeeper (talk) 18:28, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm gonna leave it alone - that template has been that way for a long time. Tyrenius and ROGO and others made it in 2008 - it's fine. I don't think you should worry about it; it's not your issue or your problem, I'll worry about it only if it comes up...Modernist (talk) 23:10, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

If I may interject, the contrast is a bit high, but I don't think it's a huge problem. It's not hideous or anything. And as you say, someone will surely get to it. Kafka Liz (talk) 00:07, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

High contrast is good, the color is good, the thing is fine. It's been that way for 3 years and counting...Modernist (talk) 00:09, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I just thought I'd mention, but doesn't bother me at all. M, I haven't a lot of time to work on that page at the moment, but I think there's quite a bit to be added. Would you mind adding images as we go along? I only added the two of V & Theo in the lead because I wanted something there and wanted to get this going before the end of the year. Now I'll focus on reading and building, but you're better at knowing which images to add and where. Truthkeeper (talk) 02:11, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I just realized what's going on. The problem is that they're following my edits and now getting at you. I'd thought I'd try to get back to content building and this is the first thing I've done in weeks. I haven't looked at the edits, but if you've been reverted enough it can go the 3R noticeboard, or to AN/I if necessary. I'm very very sorry. This is why I wanted to leave. Truthkeeper (talk) 02:30, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

It's between him and me...Modernist (talk) 02:32, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay. I need to log out, am actually working and only popped in for moment during a break. Truthkeeper (talk) 02:36, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I have the book right here

and could scan it and post it. I just hate all the copyright stuff that goes along with posting an image that is "borrowed" . Carptrash (talk) 01:14, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I know but the version we have is awful...Modernist (talk) 01:15, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Check it now and be alert for the copyright folks. Carptrash (talk) 01:44, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Good job - it looks better...Modernist (talk) 01:54, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Newman, Duchamp, the Armory Show etc

Thanks for that! I wasn't sure how to move it and still preserve the italicization in the title. I know I mentioned Nude Descending a Staircase as a possible collaboration; we might also want to consider the Armory Show- I just realized its centennial is coming up in 2013, and it would be nice if we could get it on the main page by then... Both of them are FA on the German Wikipedia, so there's something to build on there... Thanks, Lithoderm 19:47, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

I like both articles. I've already done a lot of work on Armory Show, and it is more appealing to me right now given the anniversary. See what you can do from the German articles, I'm more concerned with the armory show than the Duchamp, although they are both interrelated...Modernist (talk) 22:17, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Al Durah

Hi,

You gave very bad reasons for suppressing a very well sourced paragraph. Unless you answer back with detailed justifications about your suppression -for instance about the sources-, I will restore the version: if it just spelling, then help me to spell it better but don't suppress it in such an autoritative manner without explaining. Or it is just pov-pushing from your side. - TwoHorned _{User_talk:TwoHorned} 13:50, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Your additions are not being suppressed, they aren't improving the article. Their are rules governing your endless additions and reverts. Your additions are not good ones, either make the improvements or don't. You clearly don't like like the featured article as it is...Modernist (talk) 13:55, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Again, I don't see your reasons: I'm just talking about the sources. What is bad in these sources newly added ? It looks like you are trying to divert from explainnig the real reason of your suppression. You can't just keep saying "it's a featured article, don't touch it, even if you bring new data properly sourced"... - TwoHorned _{User_talk:TwoHorned} 14:04, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

The Family of Darius before Alexander

Thank you for the good rating on the article. Your edits are much appreciated, as always. And I'm really still retired. Really. In fact, I do my editing while sitting on the bank of a lazy river, a cattail dangling from my lower lip, a fishing line floating in the still water while the catfish swim slowly by. Jes' me, Huck, and not a care in the world. JNW (talk) 20:12, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Making me jealous, I need some time just sittin' watchin' the river flow...Modernist (talk) 20:17, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

[89]. Ceoil (talk) 20:47, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Good choice. I was thinking about linking to an appropriate video of Dylan, but the damn things are riddled with copyright warnings, and I don't want to be dragged into court and strip searched at airports the rest of my days. Such is the reach of the long arm of Zimmerman. JNW (talk) 20:52, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Great choice, I hope Yoko doesn't object though - Zimmerman probably likes this one: [90]...Modernist (talk) 21:06, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Nice one; and by concidence I'm half way through listening to "Sympathy For The Devil". Such an evil tune. O and I the only person who likes Yoko. Ceoil (talk) 21:11, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

They keep on getting better and better - gimme shelter has been in my head for days. I like Yoko by the way...Modernist (talk) 21:14, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Blasphemers. Kafka Liz (talk) 21:23, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Not saying that she was a nice person or hot or anything like that; but she was a fine screamer in the 70s. The album with Sean from the mid 90s is pretty good too. Cant be bother finding links. Ceoil (talk) 21:27, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Ok, fair enough. There's this screamy thing she did with Zappa that always amused me. Okay, maybe the title was the best thing about it... Kafka Liz (talk) 21:30, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

I respect her work - she's a Fluxus artist, screams, walls, fences and all...Modernist (talk) 21:33, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

(Smiling)...'Not saying she was hot?' I got nothing. JNW (talk) 21:36, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

If you think she was hot, man you need help. Ceoil (talk) 21:52, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

No. I just thought it funny that you went there. Please stay on topic, sir. Oh, and my needing help is an entirely different thread. JNW (talk) 21:54, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

*cough* De mortuis nil nisi bonum... oh wait. I meant to each his own. She doesn't do it for me, but... Kafka Liz (talk) 21:56, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

She was hot a long, long, long, time ago. Getting old sucks...Modernist (talk) 21:59, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Modernist and JNW, I taking both ye to AN/I over this bullshit. Yoko hot? This is unacceptable. Ceoil (talk) 22:06, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Whattaya prejudiced against old Japanese ladies? I'm shocked...Modernist (talk) 22:10, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

It's neither a question of being old not Japanese... but... once again, to each his own. Kafka Liz (talk) 22:16, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Well let thecar crash enthusiasts and vultures on AN/I decide on the merits of old Japanese woman and Yoko in the 1960/70s, and their decision will be final, as they know everything anyway ;) Ceoil (talk) 22:18, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Guaranteed fairness and truth and the American way, hallelujah...Modernist (talk) 22:21, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Har! Manus had some stones though no? Hes a good guy hope to see hime come back. Ceoil (talk) 22:29, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

DYK for The Letters of Vincent van Gogh

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:02, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Nice surprise! Thank you...Modernist (talk) 16:25, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Modernist do you have an opinion of downloading a few of the illustrated letters, or do we already have some on Commons? Actually I suppose I should be less lazy and go look. Anyway, it's early still, I think this will grow considerably, but am thinking it might be nice to illustrate with the letters. What to you think? Truthkeeper (talk) 16:42, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

I've added all the images that I could find. I like the idea of showing them. We can use these or edit a few out. I wish there was better information concerning them - like the date of the perspective frame and who he sent it to...Modernist (talk) 23:58, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm still working on finding all the sources, of which there are many. I think it will take a while to put together, but eventually as it grows I was thinking we can split some of the letters out of the gallery and add appropriate text. The van Gogh museum is the ideal source but I'd like to mix it up with others instead of leaning completely on them. I need to order a few books from interlibrary loan and will grab Hulsker while I'm at the library tomorrow. The gallery is nice as it is for the time being. Truthkeeper (talk) 00:35, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Change of plan. I was done with work and have a long break ahead of me. I was ready to come back to editing, but when my friends tell me it's time to leave, I don't have much choice but to listen. I'd intended this to be a holiday present for you and Ceoil - seemed like a nice gesture after the summer's drama, but I won't get it done. I'm leaving it you, or I'll work on it whenever I decide to come back. Happy holidays to you. It's been an interesting year. Truthkeeper (talk) 04:31, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Happy Holidays, all the best, - I'll do a little when I can. Stay well, celebrate and enjoy...Modernist (talk) 04:33, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

And to you too! Enjoy the holidays, and thanks for adding the letters to the page. I wanted it to be done for the holidays, but bit off a little more than I could chew. It's a beginning though, and my Christmas present to you. Truthkeeper (talk) 22:07, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

TK - you are the best; wonderful editor, brave, gutsy, hardworking, dedicated, have a wonderful Christmas, New Years, Chanukah and celebrate!...Modernist (talk) 22:11, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

List of Russian artists

hello,

I see you are an art enthusiast. Could you build a nice lead in List of Russian artists, eg origin of art in Russia, the Golden Age, art movements (like experssionism, abstract, realism, etc) or Russian members in art organizations (such as Der Blauer Reiter, Baumhaus), etc? My English skills are not very impressive, but I think you can build a clear and informative lead.♫GoP♫_T^C_N 15:31, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

I'll take a look, when I have time...Modernist (talk) 23:59, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Categories

Don't need to revert when I have just added them seconds ago. It's one thing if they've been there for days or even hours. I add them, I click the red link, and I'm able to create them. Give it more than a couple minutes. If your goal is to remove categories that don't exist, please go to Special:WantedCategories, there are plenty there you can work on. --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 19:23, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

As stated, if you are going to make the categories then do it...Modernist (talk) 19:25, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I always do but you're are not patient enough to let me do it. They don't have to be created first as long as they are created which I always do. -Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 19:43, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I am letting you do your thing...Modernist (talk) 19:45, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

I salute you. There is nothing I can give you which you have not, but there is much that while I cannot give, you can take. No heaven can come to us unless our hearts find rest in it today. Take heaven. No peace lies in the future which is not hidden in this present instant. Take peace. The gloom of the world is but a shadow. Behind it, yet within our reach, is joy. Take joy. And so at this Christmastime, I greet you, with the prayer that for you, now and forever, the day breaks and the shadows flee away. — Fra Giovanni Giocondo, 1513 Peace and joy this holiday season. Kafka Liz (talk) 13:02, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Happy holidays, Modernist! Kafka Liz (talk) 13:02, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Liz - all good things to you and yours in this season and in the coming new year!...Modernist (talk) 13:04, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Back atcha. Things will be better this year, I think. :) Kafka Liz (talk) 13:08, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Sure do hope so; about time for improvement...Modernist (talk) 13:10, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

True dat. Hectic couple of years it's been, this end.

Glad you're not annoyed by the huge-ass box on your page - I'm always of two minds as to whether to post these :D Kafka Liz (talk) 13:16, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

I love the damned thing. Every once in a while it's kinda cool...Modernist (talk) 13:36, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

They're fun to make, though it's not always easy to find holiday-ish stuff that doesn't beat you over the head with the Christmas stick. Kafka Liz (talk) 14:04, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

This is a good one...Modernist (talk) 14:11, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Season's greetings

Something for the new year. Very best always, JNW (talk) 14:18, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Happy Christmas

	Season's greetings!
	I hope the holiday season is relaxing and fulfilling, and that 2012 will be fruitful for you. --John (talk) 00:24, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you John, all the best to you, Merry Christmas...Modernist (talk) 01:50, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Wishing you good cheer at this time of year

ty, bus stop...Modernist (talk) 02:47, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

A toast to you - Modernist - Happy Holidays and wishing you a Happy and Healthy New Year! Bus stop (talk) 02:17, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Seasons

Great doc on 60s / 70s trad on TV tonight up to Planxty, never appreciated these guys till now, always though they were a bit rough, though I of course know the tunes well. A bit sentimental for sure, but is lovely and affecting so [91]. Ceoil (talk) 03:09, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Very lovely...Modernist (talk) 03:13, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Of course the Liam Clancy songs wipe the floor with them ;). Still its chrismas, and a fairly damn good riff. [92], [93]. Ceoil (talk) 03:16, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

First one was great, the second was kind of boring - I saw these guys a long long time ago, they are the best...[94]

I should have qualified the 2nd one; mawkish, horrible lyrics, and a worse voice; but listen to that fiddle line. Its a borrow from a much older and purer tune, but I cant place and its driving me nuts. <grr> Ceoil (talk) 03:46, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

hmm...Modernist (talk) 03:52, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Here's a couple for you [95], [96]...Modernist (talk) 03:47, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

I've heard the Baez version, but never the Dylan one. Gotta say, I'll stick with the one I knew on this... there's too much weird going on in that for me. Another [97] Kafka Liz (talk) 13:26, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Just beautiful. Last night I listened to a lot (maybe a dozen) of her old songs - from her first two albums - from the early '60s. Really beautiful, I figured Ceoil wouldn't know them and the Dylan version of course is brutal compared to Joan. Here's another old one: [98]...Modernist (talk) 13:36, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Ah, that's a good one. It's... interesting to hear it again; it sounds a bit different to me now than it did to teenage me. One last [99]. Always loved Joseph's reaction in this one. Very human. Kafka Liz (talk) 14:39, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that tree bending down must've blown his mind; they are all so good to hear again - this one [100] seems typical of her work back then, although there's this [101] and this strange one [102], so many of them...Modernist (talk) 14:53, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Just wanted to thank you all for the good music that I've been listening to this morning. I'm enjoying listening to Joan - it's been too long. Truthkeeper (talk) 15:05, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Isn't she the best? This is my favorite period of hers.

"Silkie" is a weird one... Most of the tales I know around this usually involve females selkies, stolen skins, etc. Kafka Liz (talk) 15:13, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Modernist, your right, havnt heard them and not gotten to them yet. I will though, and tks. Ceoil (talk) 15:17, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Ceoil - all of us as kids know this stuff; this was always my favorite - [103] - enjoy this period of her work she was so good...Modernist (talk) 15:47, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Modernist; my minmd is mush these days; re the 2nd tune, this is what I was thinking of; up there in my top 10 of anything. Ceoil (talk) 16:57, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm glad you cleared that up...:)Modernist (talk) 16:58, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

The fiddle was something else, but god damn, those lyrics! <horking noises> Kafka Liz (talk) 17:08, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Me too, looked like war there between us for a while;). Ceoil (talk) 17:02, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Also, listen to how understated and supportive the banjo is. <smiles> 01:38, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Getting through the Bias songs now, and its apt as I saw the scorcesus docs againt about a week ago. Am I allowed say In think she is very hot and oh so bright and articulate; in other words words perfect. Ceoil (talk) 01:38, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

She was a very powerful voice for peace, and fairness during the '60s, and she had a profound impact in helping to launch Dylan's career at the start. She's good and her best work holds up well...Modernist (talk) 01:46, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

I've always thought she was/is amazing and listening to her songs again today - some of which I haven't listened to in much too long, was a very nice indeed. Thanks M & Liz for linking them. Truthkeeper (talk) 01:54, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

She was more famous than him for a long while, and so far more fun to look at. The irony is he was ultimatly more aeoribic and acidic to listen to, in print. As a person Bias is far more interestring and seems to have more surface tension than the closed and unknowable box that is Dylan. Ceoil (talk) 02:14, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Well she's definitely better looking than him :) but he's a better song writer than anybody whose ever lived. So they are both pretty special. Although Dylan continues to produce amazingly personal and high quality new work...Modernist (talk) 02:54, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

But hes closed, gnomic and provides little insight into the period. I read the autobio and its enjoyable and with out doubt well written and evidence of a very keen intelligence. But I scratched my head afterwards, and thought, wot? Are you trying to tell me? There is an irony that he says that the reason he is so closed is because hed disillusioned by the hype around him, but his silence, vagueness, aqnd impressionistic autobio only feed that. Where as shes open and frank, unhidden, and full of fresh insight, and pulls no punches. And a pretty exceptional songwriter (have been listening since). Ceoil (talk) 14:23, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

A good insight into his autobiographical writing is found near the end of the song - Frankie Lee and Judas Priest - when he says and nothing is revealed. She has written a few terrific songs, she's a very capable and insightful singer-songwriter...Modernist (talk) 14:37, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Like the melodies more than the words, my outlook is harsh pragmatism and I'm not very left wing, at all; naievity doesnt still well, and I am strongly anti union, self interests broke this country for generations to come. But I think from looking at interviews that she is today far more pragmatic than in her youth, and its always an error to look back on the past with the perspective of the present. Also she has, still, amazing bone structure, and is a rock of commons sence. Yes I am that shallow (scurries off into corner). Ceoil (talk) 14:43, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, she's okay. He's a strange mixture of right and left - somewhat leaning to the right. The words matter though...Modernist (talk) 14:47, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

[104] Another one... can't remember which album it's from. I like the upbeat music with these lyrics. And I think she looks like my mom. :) Kafka Liz (talk) 14:52, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

I think that's from the album where it's a black and white photo of her and she's looking down to the right, also has the Banks of the Ohio and the Silkie. Her early work was so compelling I'm glad that we're giving it another listen and Ceoil is hearing it too. Your mom must be very pretty; she [Joan] is still a good looking woman. Too bad about Helen by the way - she's gotten a lot of press in the last 2 days...Modernist (talk) 21:06, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, it's been a while since I listened to her; I'd almost forgotten what a beautiful voice she has - makes me embarrassed when I try to sing along. Not that I admit to doing that ;). My mom had the most beautiful long black hair when I was young, and the resemblance was more notable then. My dad and I, of course, think she's lovely, but she won't listen to us. Re: Helen, she sounds like a pretty interesting woman. I'd heard of her, but didn't know much until I read the article (and so probably still don't know much, but at least I know more than I did). Kafka Liz (talk) 21:21, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the music and art and all the good things in life! Happy New Year to you. Truthkeeper (talk) 18:46, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Happy New Year to you as well TK, all the best, lets hope 2012 brings good things to all...Modernist (talk) 21:10, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Adding my best wishes for the new year. They ought most properly be accompanied by a tune but I'm a bt at sea at the moment. Kafka Liz (talk) 06:17, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

This is small to be Modernist's page - I must be lost. Kafka Liz (talk) 15:11, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Ha! change is good sometimes...Modernist (talk) 15:13, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

National Archives ExtravaSCANza

You are invited to the National Archives ExtravaSCANza, taking place every day next week from January 4–7, Wednesday to Saturday, in College Park, Maryland (Washington, DC metro area). Come help me cap off my stint as Wikipedian in Residence at the National Archives with one last success! This will be a casual working event in which Wikipedians are getting together to scan interesting documents at the National Archives related to a different theme each day—currently: spaceflight, women's suffrage, Chile, and battleships—for use on Wikipedia/Wikimedia Commons. The event is being held on multiple days, and in the evenings and weekend, so that as many locals and out-of-towners from nearby regions1 as possible can come. Please join us! Dominic·t 01:28, 30 December 2011 (UTC) 1 Wikipedians from DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Newark, New York City, and Pittsburgh have been invited.

history of painting

the pages in the see also should relate to painting history. not painting types/style/movements. those pages are mentioned in the article anyway. Gamewizard71 (talk) 21:21, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply and your efforts, I'll trim that section of those that are mentioned twice, however style, type, and movement will be included because these articles and titles are not black and white, there is a lot of overlap...Modernist (talk) 21:25, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Waxing nostalgic

In the old days they just used knives: [105]. JNW (talk) 15:00, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah and it sounds as though she missed when she pissed on it, a true fan. I guess that's what happens when they build you your own museum...Modernist (talk) 19:47, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Infobox color

Oops, I didn't realize there was a previous discussion. I've left a note on the template talk page. Kaldari (talk) 05:26, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Changed it per your request. That's a nice shade of blue :) Kaldari (talk) 02:14, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Well done, and thank you...Modernist (talk) 03:12, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Nationalism at Kazimir Malevich

You might want to keep an eye on this. Someone's decided to claim him (and suprematism in general, evidently!) for the Ukraine. Cheers - oh and Happy New Year! Lithoderm 08:45, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Derrick Fludd

The article Derrick Fludd has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

A search for references failed to find significant coverage in reliable sources to comply with notability requirements. This included web searches for news coverage, books, and journals, which can be seen from the following links:
Derrick Fludd – news, books, scholar
Consequently, this article is about a subject that appears to lack sufficient notability.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Speciate (talk) 08:31, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll check it out...Modernist (talk) 13:24, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Romanticism

We all bend rules sometimes, but that was an incorrect use of rollback. It's a bit insulting that you didn't address my concern in your (lack of) edit summary. A little courtesy please. FWIW the Francesco Hayez image is use in the lead on the Dutch article. SlightSmile 23:26, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I apologize for using rollback, although your comment about Caspar David Friedrich - one of the greatest painters of that era and that painting of a lone figure facing the vast wilderness sublime which so perfectly depicts the concept of the Romantic era was a bit much. I have added Hayez to the article thanks to you, by the way :)...Modernist (talk) 23:38, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for giving insight on the image. I've had the article on my watchlist for a long time and could never figure out the point of - well my edit summary says it. I'm starting to sniff around the other (interwiki is it called?) and sometimes I come across something we could use here. Nice to meet you. SlightSmile 23:58, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Likewise - check Friedrich out - he really is a terrific artist...Modernist (talk) 23:59, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

interesting

This is interesting. Bus stop (talk) 03:45, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Very interesting, thank you Bus stop...Modernist (talk) 13:16, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Great—I'm glade you liked it. Here is another one. I think this one is also very good. I'm finding them all pretty much here. Bus stop (talk) 15:32, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Bus stop I'll try to find the time to listen - you might enjoy joining this project by the way Wikipedia:GLAM/MoMA. I disagree with the MoMA view that modern art begins with Cezanne. Clement Greenberg says modern art begins with Manet and I disagree with him too. I think Goya, Turner, maybe even Gericault kick off modern art long before the Post-Impressionists...Modernist (talk) 16:25, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Fæ

A request for comments has been opened on administrator User:Fæ. You are being notified due to your prior participation in ANI, RfA, or RfC discussions regarding this user. Thank you, MadmanBot (talk) 19:48, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Derrick Fludd for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Derrick Fludd is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Derrick Fludd until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Speciate (talk) 17:01, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

I have a problem

and I have come up with a non-standard way of dealing with it. I am going to pitch my solution to half a dozen long term editors whom I respect and get some feedback. I am picking you of my watchlist, not why some of you are there. I am confused, sober and looking for answers and honesty. It all starts with the Ignore all rules postulate.

Over the years I have amassed a lot of documentary materials. My great-grandfather lived in China, my grandfather was born there. Both took pictures. My grandfather took pictures as a doctor in both WWI and WWII. I have become the family archivist and I call the collection the Carpchives. In an earlier wikipedia incarnation this collection was referred to as the eekives. It was involved in a quite heated discussion here [106] - Disputed Image section and eventually the picture was removed. By me, as I recall. The picture in question was of my father-in-law in the US Merchant Marines during WWII. Another picture taken during the Boxer rebellion has since been removed. It was a bit funky, for sure.

There are a number of signatures that I've added to articles, some from my family archives, some I've had signed, other turn up in used books. Some of this stuff that is already in wikipedia is here:

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

I'm pretty sure there is more.

I also have a great collection of Corrado Parducci stuff, his "Job Book" written by him, copies of hundreds of photographs of his works in the plaster stage in his studio, a copy of his scrap book and more. I once had a project going to try and identify 75 sculptors in a photograph that was published in LIFE Magazine in 1949, located several of the artists still alive and corresponded with many children and grandchildren. Unfortunately much of that was lost in one of several dramatic computer and other failures in my life, but much remains. Then there is what I call the "my father (or grandfather) was a famous sculptor and..." syndrome. Through that I've collected a great CD filled with Rene Paul Chambellan's scrap books, as well as letter, papers, photographs and all sorts of that sort of things from a variety of other folks.

I always share. Well, almost always. So, I'd like to set up, on wikipedia, a Charpchives article or perhaps, a subpage of my user page or something, where these things could be referenced to and anyone who wanted to check up on something could contact me there.

Or is this all just some mutation of perversion of original research? Or even hubris? The thing about this material is that little of it in mine, although some of that does appear too. this is not my blog. Or should I just put it all on my blog and forget using it on wikipedia?

Thank you for getting right back to me. The pictures are not really the issue, although I have a difficult time uploading to commons, it is more things such as, I have a letter to a sculptor asking him to head the architectural sculpture section at BAID, on their letterhead. A job he took. How do I reference that letter? Something will happen, maybe a subpage. Thanks again. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 15:13, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Tapies

Your interference with updating of the Tàpies article to reflect the fact of his death was unwarranted and arrogant. Brocach (talk) 20:39, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Neoclassicism dispute

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Neoclassicism". Thank you. -- MacAddct1984 ^{(talk &#149; contribs)} 15:34, 18 February 2012 (UTC)