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NPOV: Amrit pal Singh Page

Hi, I've taken a look at that page but can see a bias take on it. Can we not put a Neutral point of view i.e the Sikh vs Rest of India viewpoint on him like I done with the WPD edit. Jattlife121 (talk) 01:08, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

@Jattlife121 Hey, there are some sources that share his point of view (such as interviews by journalists from BaazNews) and the positive effects he has had (such as more youth becoming Amritdharis). Right now, most of the sources are mainstream Indian ones and quite critical of him. Feel free to add more positive information about him using sources. It would be biased to only use sources that disparage him, and therefore not useful for an encyclopedic entry based on objectivity. I agree that both sides of the story (pro-Amritpal and anti-Amritpal) need to be discussed in-depth in his article. ThethPunjabi (talk) 01:13, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

I agree, but if the Sikh sources are pro and Indian are anti, surely like Bhindranwale's article you just conclude that to X he is favoured but to Y he is not. Jattlife121 (talk) 01:15, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

@Jattlife121 Some Sikh sources have been critical of him, such as this one. ThethPunjabi (talk) 01:17, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

If the debate is still going on, use this

https://time.com/6266461/india-manhunt-amritpal-singh-mass-repression/ Usingh0663 (talk) 22:40, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

@Usingh0663 This is a great source that provides critical commentary and nuance that is desperately missing from the current revision of the article but I have no hopes that certain editors on there are participating in a fair and unbiased manner. Trying to avoid the headache and drama over at that page at the moment. ThethPunjabi (talk) 22:42, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Prohibitions in Sikhism

Regarding [1], thanks.

95.248.156.169 (talk) 16:38, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

@95.248.156.169 No worries, I appreciate you taking time proofreading the article for awkward prose. Cheers, ThethPunjabi (talk) 16:49, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 4

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Thank you bot, I shall fix the link. *beep beep* *boop boop* ThethPunjabi (talk) 15:50, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Old punjabi is not an actual language

your source not unreliable it's made classifications of languages of the region at the time old punjabi the word punjabi was not used to refer to the language of the region so calling it punjabi is historically inaccurate and not supported by facts. it is geo-politically motived attempt to make punjabi language seems older than it really is just like old seraiki made up by seraiki nationalists. there's no such thing as old punjabi or even more absurd "medieval" punjabi modern panjabi can traced back to 16th century that's around when the word punjabi used to refer to the languages spoken around these Rivers started. guru granth sahib is not written in punjabi and it shouldn't be used as source for punjabi it's written in hodge podge of languages, the only "punjabi' you can find in guru sahib is western punjabi which is mixed with sindhi and western hindi. IMPNFHU (talk) 22:26, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

in order to be classified as different language the language has to meet several criteria most important of them being grammar and mutual intelligibility. for example Anglo sexon and English, they are both different languages grammatically and are not mutually intelligible old. punjabi doesn't meet any of these criteria. IMPNFHU (talk) 22:36, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

@IMPNFHU

Sources from actual linguists are not valid? The sources I added are indeed valid and 'Old Punjabi' is indeed a real historical language and precursor stage of modern Punjabi. You are free to disagree but the sources and academic consensus in the field of Indic linguistics are not in-agreement with your personal opinion.

Here is an excerpt from 'Punjabi Descriptive Grammars' by Tej Bhatia (Professor of Linguistics and Director of South Asian Languages at Syracuse University, Syracuse, New York): "Punjabi belongs to the Outer Circle of Indo-Aryan languages (Chatterji 1926, 1942) and is surrounded by other Indo-Iranian languages such as Pashto, Lahanda, Sindhi, Hindi-Urdu, and Kashmiri. The history of the modern Indo-Aryan languages such as Hindi, Bengali, and Punjabi can be traced to is earlier stages–Old Indo-Aryan (1500 B.C. to 600 B.C.) and Middle Indo-Aryan (600 B.C. to 1000 A.D.). As an independent language Punjabi has gone through the following three stages of development: Old Punjabi (10th to 16th century), Medieval Punjabi (16th to 19th century), and Modern Punjabi (19th century to Present)."

Not only that, here is an excerpt from 'Teachings of the Sikh Gurus: Selections from the Sikh Scriptures' by Christopher Shackle (Emeritus Professor of Modern Languages of South Asia at the University of London), Arvind Mandair (instructor at the University of Michigan in the department of Asian Languages and Cultures): "The lower caste Sant teacher-poets, like the weaver Kabir or the leather-worker Ravidas, were hardly concerned with the sort of poetic sophistication associated with the Brahminic class whose authority they so expressly challenged. In order to spread their message by the most direct means, their verse accordingly incorporates a variety of regional forms but tends to be based on the Old Hindi of the Delhi region which was likely to be more widely understood than other more localized dialects. Surpassing them all in the frequent subtlety of his linguistic choices, including the use of dialect forms as well as of frequent loanwords from Sanskrit and Persian, Guru Nanak combined this poetic language of the Sants with his native Old Punjabi. It is this mixture of Old Punjabi and old Hindi which constitutes the core idiom of all the earlier Gurus."

We follow what the reliable sources say here on Wikipedia, not personal original research or judgements. ThethPunjabi (talk) 22:40, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

I just recently got back into Wikipedia. I am trying to get old punjabi removed from wiktionary it's a made-up completely unnecessary language. IMPNFHU (talk) 22:43, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

@IMPNFHU Like I said before, it is a real historical language and your personal opinion and judgement are not aligned with the academic consensus on this subject. ThethPunjabi (talk) 22:44, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

punjabi is not a single language it is a term that was recently(few centuries ago) started being used to refer to the languages spoken around these rivers historically, punjabi was know as various regional names such as multani or the more broad term hindavi or hindi. IMPNFHU (talk) 22:49, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

@IMPNFHU Cite a source. I will not reply any longer if you do not have any sources to support your claims. ThethPunjabi (talk) 22:58, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

there are way more linguistics that does not consider old punjabi an actual language than than the only one I know(that you mentioned) who does. the institutes that regulate punjabi in India, punjabi university of partial and bhasha vibhaag does not consider old punjabi to be an actual language. IMPNFHU (talk) 23:10, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

@IMPNFHU Still waiting on a source from you. "the institutes that regulate punjabi in India, punjabi university of partial and bhasha vibhaag does not consider old punjabi to be an actual language" give me a full source to the piece of literature where they explicitly state that. Here are more sources to support Old Punjabi as a legitimate historical language:

ThethPunjabi (talk) 23:10, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

are you a punjabi nationalist? didn't read my reply? it's not considered an actual language by the institutes that regulates this language. old punjabi is as much of a language as old seraiki. it is made up for geo-politically reasons by people like you. IMPNFHU (talk) 23:25, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

@IMPNFHU Resorting to personal attacks and baseless accusations now because you could not defend your claim using academic literature? This conversations ends here now. Have a nice day. ThethPunjabi (talk) 23:26, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

guru granth sahib is not written in punjabi so stop referring it me as evidence or the linguistics who refers it's language as old punjabi. can you give a link to the part in guru granth sahib that uses this language? a user on wiktionary cited start nanak's verses in adi granth as old punjabi, so i checked it and saw that he uses a weird mixed hindish language that's obviously not punjabi. IMPNFHU (talk) 23:35, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

once again you're giving sources that calls guru granth sahib's mixed language as old punjabi, refers to apabhramsa as old punjabi and calls the language (which is mutually intelligible with punjabi spoken now) of Sikh empire 17th-18th century as medieval punjabi. OK, let' leave aside the made-up names and classification of historical languages and look at historical facts. punjabi language didn't even existed back the at the time your source are claiming to it to be and, people didn't even used the word punjabi to refer to their language. give me a source that proves that people called their language punjabi back then and we'll go on from there. IMPNFHU (talk) 00:30, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Khalsa bole is a very good page. Well done! BoyTheKingCanDance (talk) 03:09, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

@BoyTheKingCanDance Hey! Thank you so much. :) ThethPunjabi (talk) 10:01, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Khalsa Fauj is a very good page. Well done! BoyTheKingCanDance (talk) 06:49, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

@BoyTheKingCanDance Thank you again, I appreciate your recognition! :) ThethPunjabi (talk) 17:23, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Keep up the great work!!! BoyTheKingCanDance (talk) 02:35, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	Every article you create and improve becomes amazing. Here is a token of my appreciation. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 02:21, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 Thank you so much bro, just doing my part. Your praise encourages me to keep on going. ThethPunjabi (talk) 02:31, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

) CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 05:11, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Woops. I tried to send a smiley face but it didn’t work. :) CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 05:12, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

About Maha Singh

I removed those references and text because I wrote them below in more detail. 2409:40D6:101D:FDB8:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 11:46, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Okay, my apologies, I will undo my reversion. Happy editing! ThethPunjabi (talk) 11:47, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

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ARBIPA sanctions reminder

ThethPunjabi, you have been previously notified about the ARBIPA discretionary sanctions (nowadays called "contentious topics" sanctions).

Your inability to understand and apply Wikipedia policies regarding reliable sources, WP:SOAPBOXing discussions like "Very clear pro-Indian government narrative bias etc. are borerdering in disruptive conduct in contentious areas. If you go down this route, you are going to be liable to discretionanray sanctions. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:53, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Kautilya3 I fully disagree with your claims about my conduct. Please do not post these warnings on my talk page because we happened to disagree on a certain issue and because I posted to the dispute resolution noticeboard for outside discussion. I view this as an attempt to silence and intimidate me from calling out an article for clear bias. I can accuse you and the other editors of SOAPBOX as well, as you are promoting pro-Indian government propaganda. As seen on the talk page, there is no consensus yet whether the Baaz News source is deemed reliable or unreliable, so do not jump-the-gun. Furthermore, you and the other editors are actually the ones violating point #3 of WP:SOAPBOX, specifically: "Articles must not be written purely to attack the reputation of another person." The article has unsubstantiated claims of "brainwashing of youth to become suicide bombers" and other nonsensical Indian government propaganda. ThethPunjabi (talk) 18:55, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I didn't write that line, and I don't take kindly to unsubstantiated accusations of bias. If you start clubbing together editors like this, it will be considered WP:BATTLEGROUND and will be further grounds for sanctions. If you don't believe the line is accurate, the ONUS is on you to challenge it, by cross-checking the sources or bringing sources that contradict it. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 20:39, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

How many policies does ThethPunjabi violate when he calls widely reported information by a reliable source "other nonsensical Indian government propaganda."? >>> Extorc.talk 21:40, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

@Extorc I have reliable sources proving the unreliability of Indian media outlets in-regards to reporting on minority groups, such as Sikhs. But you need to be patient, I’m busy doing something in my personal life and I will respond later-on today. Also, please list the policies you accuse me of breaking rather than making general accusations. ThethPunjabi (talk) 22:00, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I totally agreed with you, these pro-hindutva lobby have been doing same on every other article page. In some cases even you get to the WP:RS, they start saying it's 'public opinion' or 'widely accpeted' , they are destroying neturality and propagating the states narrative. Dilpreet Singh ping  02:22, 22 March 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dilpreet Singh (talk • contribs)

@Dilpreet Singh Indeed, it is a real shame Wikipedia is being influenced by state-sponsored and backed misinformation/disinformation, under the guise of so-called credible news media outlets, in this manner. And it is not only me and you who have raised the issue regarding the bias of particular users, others have as well. This is a major issue effecting the credibility of Wikipedia as a reliable resource of knowledge and it needs to be addressed, not swept under the rug and ignored. ThethPunjabi (talk) 02:25, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Well you know your case is weak otherwise you would have taken the fringe sources you want to add to WP:RSN instead of fighting with other editors. Mixmon (talk) 08:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Mixmon Actually, it’s more of a case of seeing that certain other editors are not willing to be rational and preferring to argue and be uncivil, therefore I have seen that it is no longer productive of my time to continue this conversation as the other side is unwilling to work productively and would rather attempt to drag out the discussion, even when their poorly crafted and incessant points have been refuted by many others. Don’t comment on my talk page any longer. ThethPunjabi (talk) 10:24, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

they slaughter wrong person.. these guys need a life 😂😂 Dilpreet Singh ping 23:29, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

A lot has changed over the last few days on Amritpal Singh page, can we sync if you have time? Dilpreet Singh ping 00:09, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

@Dilpreet Singh Hey, honestly I’m trying to stay away from that mess at the moment. Too many toxic and POV-minded users there (who are not participating in good-faith) to make any progress to addressing issues with the article. I’m going to focus on more quiet and esoteric areas but I can lend a helping hand if it’s requested and a group of concerned users make grounded, rational, and logical arguments together to address any rebuttals by editors who may oppose their assertions. Before, it felt like it was mostly just me alone with a bunch of handles trying to argue/debate/insult me. Anyways, looks like the mods/admins are more partial to one side’s arguments at the moment so it will be an uphill struggle to voice our concerns convincingly and establish consensus for our proposed revisions. ThethPunjabi (talk) 00:16, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

that tells me the environment here on wikipedia, that's fair position. I'll look into the article and will input accordingly. Dilpreet Singh ping 00:24, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

@Dilpreet Singh Yeah, I got to experience toxic Wikipedia behaviour first-hand visiting and participating in that article and some others, lol. Anyways, just be careful because they will not hesitate to ban you again if someone complains, perhaps permanently. So make sure you follow the Wikipedia rules/guidelines/policies so there will not be any grounds for another ban on your account. ThethPunjabi (talk) 00:30, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Jadoons tribe

I recently received a message in which you said that I edited the Jadoons page and I didn't leave a description, in fact I did, I updated the Jadoon population to the latest census, so kindly restore my edit.

Thanks Mujiwins (talk) 15:22, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Mujiwins Hello, thanks for your comment. There was no citation provided to a source that supports a population figure of 1 million. If you have a reliable source for that claimed figure, feel free to edit the article again with the source cited. ThethPunjabi (talk) 22:29, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Jinn

I didn't remove large parts of the text, only 2 sentences or so, please read the description before stalking me on all my edits and removing them thanks. Mujiwins (talk) 15:31, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

@Mujiwins Seek consensus for proposed major wording changes which completely changes the meaning of sentences in a popular article about an important subject such as this one. You can post in the article's talk page and make your case for your proposals there. Also, your edits seem to be original research and your own opinion, please read-up on Wikipedia's rules, policies, and guidelines and familiarize yourself with the basics so going forward you know how to contribute without being reverted by other users due to inexperience with Wikipedia's editing norms (such as citing reliable sources to support edits, operating on the basis of consensus, and no original research or editing based on your personal opinion). Since you are a new user, take this as a learning opportunity and do not take it personally. It is normal for new users' edits to be reverted for reasons like the ones mentioned above, we were all new at some point and I had to go through the same learning process that you are undertaking as well (and I still have so much to learn about Wikipedia!). ThethPunjabi (talk) 22:46, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

The Mahdi

Thanks for reverting one of my statements which I made by mistake in "The Mahdi" Mujiwins (talk) 15:51, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Just so you know

Just so you know Crusaderfortruth2023 on his talk page is calling you a Khalistani sympathiser. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 10:54, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 Thanks for alerting me. I’m not really surprised that user would make baseless accusations and personal attacks like that. They also tried to threaten me earlier. I would have taken them to the noticeboards but the last few days have made me lose a lot of faith in that process after seeing the poor behaviour and rule breaking of many users being selectively ignored when the issue is raised. Anyways, I’ve come to the conclusion that editing that article is not a productive usage of my time and effort on Wikipedia, seeing the toxic behaviour of users on the page. So I will return to focusing on Sikh history-related content. ThethPunjabi (talk) 12:18, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

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I am back on Wikipedia

@CanadianSingh1469 , @Usingh0663 , @Jattlife121 , @Javerine , @Ronnie Macroni , @Twarikh e Khalsa – Hello all, just thought I would let you all know that I have returned from my trip overseas and will start regularly contributing to Wikipedia again, I hope I did not miss too much while I was away (I see Javerine has been banned for being a sockpuppet account). I am looking forward to continue working with you all on improving Sikh and Punjabi-related articles (if I forgot to ping anyone, my apologies). Cheers, ThethPunjabi (talk) 07:16, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

He has returned!!!! :) CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 07:21, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

@ThethPunjabi Can you look into a free use image of Bhai Surinder Singh Sodhi? CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 07:22, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 Haha yes, I am alive. Sure! I'll upload one for him if I can find one. ;) ThethPunjabi (talk) 07:31, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 Which article do you want me to upload the free-use image for? ThethPunjabi (talk) 07:40, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

I am just planning on making an article on Surinder Singh Sodhi soon. You can upload it to the commons and I will add it to an article soon. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 07:50, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 I haven't been able to find a free-use image of him that is in the public domain but I can upload one under fair usage after the article has been created. Just let me know when the article is created. ThethPunjabi (talk) 07:52, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Okay will do. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 07:54, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

The punjabi is back!!! Ronnie Macroni (talk) 11:28, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

we should call our group the wikipediawale misl.The question is who will be the misldar? Twarikh e Khalsa (talk) 21:37, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

I second this. I think who ever has been here the longest should he misaldar *cough cough Me cough cough* CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 21:46, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 @Twarikh e Khalsa lol! We will re-establish Khalsa Raj 2.0 on Wikipedia. ThethPunjabi (talk) 21:48, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

the new name is Jathedar Sultan-ul-Quam Nawab Sardar CanadianSingh1469 Wikipediawala CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 21:50, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

You will act as the main jathedar while 5 of us will act as the main war council(a similar system that Baba Banda Singh Bahadur had)The war council will include me,@ThethPunjabi @Ronnie Macroni @Usingh0663 and @Jattlife121.Raj Karega Khalsa! Twarikh e Khalsa (talk) 22:05, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Panj Pyare lol! Hopefully you don’t abandon me like Binod Singh did. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 22:14, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

lmfao this will be our logo Usingh0663 (talk) 23:41, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes. The Jathedar approves lol. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 23:54, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Baba Wikipedia Singh Attariwala!!! Ronnie Macroni (talk) 02:28, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

@ThethPunjabi @Ronnie Macroni @Usingh0663 @Twarikh e Khalsa and @Jattlife121

Just created an article. Rasta Roko Morcha What you guys think? CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 04:39, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 Looks great! ThethPunjabi (talk) 08:22, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 14:34, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Looks good Ronnie Macroni (talk) 11:36, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 14:34, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Looks amazing. Also huge W for adding the Sant prefix to you know who. Usingh0663 (talk) 14:30, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks and yeah huge W. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 14:35, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

@ThethPunjabi @Ronnie Macroni @Usingh0663 @Twarikh e Khalsa and @Jattlife121 Any suggestions on an article to make? CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 02:36, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I can help you create an article on Vadhbhag Singh Sodhi Twarikh e Khalsa (talk) 02:39, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Sure. Here is my sandbox. User:CanadianSingh1469/sandbox We can work here. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 02:41, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I can work on creating a template first. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 02:43, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

@Twarikh e Khalsa I will work on the article later. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 02:50, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Alright! Twarikh e Khalsa (talk) 03:03, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Nevermind there is already a wikipedia article on him already Twarikh e Khalsa (talk) 03:17, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

@Twarikh e Khalsa @CanadianSingh1469 I’m planning on creating articles on Bhai Bhanno, Bhai Gurdas Singh (not to be confused with Bhai Gurdas Bhalla), Bhai Rupa, Bhai Jetha, Pir Buddhu Shah (not to be confused with Pir Budhan Shah), and other important early Sikh historical figures that were close to the gurus. I also want to create more articles on historical anti-Sikh characters, such as Painde Khan and Gangu Bahman. Those are some ideas for new biography articles if any of you may be interested. ThethPunjabi (talk) 13:35, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Bet Ronnie Macroni (talk) 13:40, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Haha go for it. I’m happy to collab :) ThethPunjabi (talk) 13:43, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I was about to make an article on Bhai Bhanno then I got lazy lol CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 14:39, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm interested on creating an article on lakhpat rai.(Now that you mentioned of creating articles on anti sikh figures)There is a page on his brother already (jaspat rai)so I feel like he needs his own page aswell. Twarikh e Khalsa (talk) 16:58, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

@Twarikh e Khalsa Good idea! I’m hoping to one day find a historical/contemporary depiction of him and his brother, plus Tara Singh Wan. ThethPunjabi (talk) 17:20, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

I could be wrong but i don't think there is any contemporary depiction of him (to my knowledge atleast).If there is a depiction of him,then it has yet to be discovered. Twarikh e Khalsa (talk) 18:39, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Ill go ahead with like Mukhlis Khan Ronnie Macroni (talk) 18:38, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ronnie Macroni I actually uploaded a depiction of Mukhlis Khan on Wikimedia Commons. I'll post it on the article once you're done creating it. ThethPunjabi (talk) 21:12, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Don’t forget to mention Mukhlisghar (I don’t know the exact spelling) which was founded by Mukhlis Khan and later became Lohgrah Banda Singh’s capital. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 22:02, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Biographies are too hard lol I give up already Ronnie Macroni (talk) 00:42, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 @Ronnie Macroni @Twarikh e Khalsa @Usingh0663 I just made an article on 19th century Sikh scholar Giani Gian Singh. Let me know what you think and feel free to improve it as you see fit. ThethPunjabi (talk) 01:47, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Good one, he deserved an article Ronnie Macroni (talk) 01:56, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Good CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 03:32, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

lol CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 03:32, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

I am going to be making lots of articles on Kharkus and maybe their engagements. Went through and got many books on them and found 100s of newspapers so yeah. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 00:59, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Golden age of Sikhipedia Ronnie Macroni (talk) 01:00, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

May begin with Gurbachan Singh Manochahal. @Ronnie Macroni@Twarikh e Khalsa@Usingh0663@ThethPunjabi@Jattlife121 If you guys know any prominent kharku’s without an article tell me. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 01:01, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Seetal Singh Mattewal maybe Ronnie Macroni (talk) 01:05, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

I will add him to the list. (I got a pretty big list lol) CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 01:46, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Lol Ronnie Macroni (talk) 01:48, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

I saw on your user page that creating an article on Gurbilas is one of your goals and ideas. I am currently working on an article on Gurbilas Patashahi 6. I will link it here when I am done so you can go over it and edit it. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 22:42, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 Hey! Yeah, I want to start creating articles on very early Sikh texts (17th century, 18th century, and pre-colonial 19th century ones). Funny enough, I just uploaded a photo of a folio of an old Gurbilas Patashahi 6 (Chhevin) manuscript on Wikimedia Commons. Sounds good! Looking forward to seeing it. Afterwards, we can create articles on the two traditions of Gurbilas Patashahi 10, the earlier one completed by Koer Singh in 1751 and the latter one completed by Sukha Singh in 1797. ThethPunjabi (talk) 23:24, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

I guess im making an article on Bhai Bhagatu Ronnie Macroni (talk) 00:38, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ronnie Macroni Go for it mate! It’ll be good practice for you in-regards to writing up biographical articles. ThethPunjabi (talk) 03:18, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ronnie Macroni@ThethPunjabi@Twarikh e Khalsa@Usingh0663 Can anyone help me find more information on Gurjant Singh Budhsinghwala? I know he was involved in 37 major assassinations, but I haven’t found info on all of them. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 06:27, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 I'd be willing to help but Kharkus and the Punjab insurgency is an area where I lack detailed knowledge in, specifically regarding different personalities of that era, so I am unsure how much help I can be. If you need sources for a specific assassination you have in-mind, I can search for some but aside from that, I am afraid I cannot be of much help. I'll try and educate myself more in this area. ThethPunjabi (talk) 20:09, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

It’s okay if can’t help. Just if you find any sources or information not in the article share it to me. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 00:22, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

@ThethPunjabi Can you find any information on an attempted attack/assassination on Jagdev Singh Talwandi. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 21:52, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 Hey bro, I found an archived New York Times article that covers an attempted assassination of the above individual where he was shot in the shoulder but survived: https://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/30/world/gunman-wounds-a-sikh-leader.html

"The president of the predominant Sikh political party was wounded in an ambush today after he initiated efforts to unite rival factions on the eve of an important Sikh conference, news reports said. Two people were killed in the attack."

"The party leader, Jagdev Singh Talwandi, president of Akali Dal, was reported out of danger after being shot in a shoulder by the gunmen, who attacked from a waiting truck. The Press Trust of India said the attack took place near the village of Kamalpur, about 200 miles northwest of here, as he was traveling to Amritsar for the conference."

Hope it helps! ThethPunjabi (talk) 19:40, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 19:44, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

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Review article

Can you review changes in article Kaur? I have added sources. Adding @CanadianSingh1469 as well if he has input based on wide knowledge on Sikh History. 2600:1016:B002:73FC:D51F:8A26:79F3:73B5 (talk) 12:53, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Looks like that article has a controversial recent editing history involving banned users, I'd rather not get involved but I will review changes to it since March and edit as needed if anything stands-out to me. ThethPunjabi (talk) 20:11, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Such as dubious sentence under section history, “The Tat Khalsa, a reformist Sikh movement seeking to consolidate the hitherto multifariousness within the Sikh community, and expunge the heavily ingrained Hindu influence within their religion, had begun to emerge in the early twentieth century.” But the source says that “Clearly the Goddess could have no place within the worldview the Tat Khalsa was attempting to contour, particularly in light of Singh Sabha objectives to conclusively establish Sikh distinctiveness from the wider Hindu community.”

[2] Therefore, the sentence needs to be properly and correctly worded. Might also help if you folks bring more sources to light providing history. 2600:1016:B006:387C:815E:E90A:74B8:5F71 (talk) 11:09, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Adding @CanadianSingh1469 if he has any input. 2600:1016:B006:387C:815E:E90A:74B8:5F71 (talk) 11:11, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Also scholar J.S Grewal has also called scholar Jakobsh as highly selective and their interpretations on gender lopsided. [3]. Also in her interview [4], she differs from McLeod and Nikky Guninder that Kaur was asserted in 1699. Regardless, opinion of all scholars should be put in place, not just Jakobsh who is rather controversial. Also read through this [5], which has scholars debunking each other, example: “ According to Nikky Singh, however, the name “Kaur” is traced to Guru Gobind Singh (“Preface”, Her Name is Kaur). Doris Jakobsh contests this claim. In her book Relocating Gender in Sikh History, Jakobsh argues it was during the Singh Sabha Reform Movement of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries in India that the name Kaur was given to Sikh women.” In this same link scholar “Khushwant Singh, in his discussion of the names “Singh” and “Kaur” given to males and female Sikh by Guru Gobind Singh writes, “In making all Sikhs Singhs (and Kaurs) [Gobind Singh] made them into one casteless fraternity” (The Sikhs(Singh 2001))”. Also on Wikipedia, isn’t controversial opinions are subjected to be removed from articles when several scholars have dispute on it? That is why the article Kaur’s history section needs to be re-evaluated. 2600:1016:B005:353B:25CA:2389:5B6C:1496 (talk) 12:34, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I will look into it, but it look likes slippery slope. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 14:39, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

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Hans (clan) page edit

Can you please provide source link where it mentions Hans as a Punjabi Arora, Chuhra or a Mirasi clan? Also just wanted to know why were my changes reverted when i had added the relevant links to my sources. Thank you. Ishtpreethans (talk) 07:03, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@Ishtpreethans The sources are listed on the article after the relevant sentences regarding Hans being a clan of the Arora, Chuhra, and Mirasi communities as well. This information should not be removed if it is supported by sources. Also, works dating back to the British Raj are not reliable and are outdated as per Wikipedia policy and consensus. Therefore, they cannot be used as citations. ThethPunjabi (talk) 07:07, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Okay makes sense. But just for clarification then why was the additional information added by me from this source- A Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North-West Frontier Province disregarded and reverted? Ishtpreethans (talk) 07:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@ThethPunjabi okay got it. I didnt know that British Raj era information is not supposed to be used. Thank you for sharing this and correcting me. Ishtpreethans (talk) 07:15, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Flag

Hello. I am looking for the flag or symbol of Punjab Police. I haven’t found it on commons. Since you are a master at this, can you add it? CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 00:05, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 Hey! Here you go. Now I believe you may have to justify fair-usage for any articles you want to use it on (or else a bot will remove the image if it is placed on an unauthorized article), which I am unsure on how to do. I wrote that it will be used in the infobox of any article related to the Punjab Police, which should cover what you're aiming to use it for. ThethPunjabi (talk) 00:14, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Ok. Thanks a lot. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 00:52, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Sikhs in Finland

Hi, I have included a picture of Sikhs of the Indian Hockey Team who won Bronze at Helsinki 1952 Olympics on the article. Thanks for your effort and help on the article. Really do appreciate it. . I've got a whole draft for Sikhs in Portugal and Spain coming soon on that same scale i've done with Sikhism in Italy (where i've updated everything) Jattlife121 (talk) 17:27, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

@Jattlife121 Hey, no worries. Always happy to lend a helping hand :)

You're doing a great job with these articles, keep it up. ThethPunjabi (talk) 02:12, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@Jattlife121 By the way, I noticed the article you wrote up (Sikhism in France) was lacking supporting sources (I added some regarding the statue of Ranjit Singh). It'd be a good idea to add them as you write, so your efforts don't go to waste in the future if someone challenges what you write and there's no sources cited to support the text. ThethPunjabi (talk) 02:27, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

Than you, Also I have the sources for it, I just haven't got back to putting them in lol. Will be done next week. Jattlife121 (talk) 02:40, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

If possible, could you find a picture for Dubai Gurdwara under Wikipedia commons that we can use for Sikhism in the United Arab Emirates. I think any country with at least 10k population should have some relevant picture for the sikh pages. I'll start figuring out image uploads sometime next week for the others. Jattlife121 (talk) 05:40, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@Jattlife121 Looks like someone uploaded a picture of a gurdwara in Dubai already on Wikimedia Commons: here's the link to it. I'd be happy to upload relevant pictures but I have to be careful with copyright and stuff like that (usually that is why I only upload old images/works that are in the public domain because their copyright expired). The other option is to upload images directly on Wikipedia under fair usage but there's a bunch of rules and criteria that have to be followed and applied for that to be a valid option. ThethPunjabi (talk) 19:39, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. I have updated. It's weird i couldn't find it on wiki commons when searching earlier lol. Also if my Sant Isher Ji page gets approved please upload a pic if possible. Most are very old anyway so should be in-line with terms.. Jattlife121 (talk) 20:02, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

@Jattlife121 Will do bro! ThethPunjabi (talk) 20:02, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Also Draft:Sikhs in Brazil is submitted now. Feel free to add to this. Jattlife121 (talk) 20:04, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Mankera Fort

I am making an article about Mankera fort. I was thinking can you add a picture of the ruins of the fort which exist today? Thanks Ronnie Macroni (talk) 15:16, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

@Ronnie Macroni Hey Ronnie, looks like a user already uploaded images of the fort on Wikimedia Commons, here are the links to them: picture one and picture two. Feel free to use those images. I cannot upload any new ones because the ones I found online are all relatively recent and likely still protected by copyright and wouldn't be applicable for being uploaded under fair usage either. ThethPunjabi (talk) 19:42, 4 June 2023 (UTC)

Oh thank you Ronnie Macroni (talk) 00:23, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Jagtar Singh Hawara

Hello

If possible can you find a better photo for the page of Jathedar Jagtar Singh Hawara. Thanks in advance CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 02:21, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

@CanadianSingh1469 I haven't been able to find any images of him in the public domain yet. Since he is living, I cannot upload an image of him as fair use either. ThethPunjabi (talk) 04:06, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Oh. Well if you have any luck tell me. CanadianSingh1469 (talk) 06:16, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

CS1 error on SYL (song)

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Banda Bairagi has been called brahmin Bhardwaj from gotra and gotra means father, manhus minhas was not mentioned in the old history books.

Ye rajput khud Rajasthan ki khyat me or inscriptions me brahmins ki aulade bata rakhe hai or rajput bas ek title hai ,na ki koi caste Gaur brahmin (talk) 13:41, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

@Gaur brahmin Why not use your main account to post this message Marx Lenin2.0? Also, English please and this sounds like WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH. ThethPunjabi (talk) 16:44, 9 June 2023 (UTC)

In the old texts of Rajasthan, many Rajputs have been described as the children of Brahmins and Banda Bairagi has been made a Rajput only in these 100 years, in the old Sufi texts of Kashmir, he has also been called a Brahmin. Gaur brahmin (talk) 02:34, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

@Gaur brahmin We do not interpret primary sources ourselves, we let academics/scholars do that and then use their secondary sources for citing. Also, using old, historical texts, whom are fraught with inaccuracies and mistakes, as direct sources, is discouraged ThethPunjabi (talk) 02:36, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Rajputs like Miya Dido fight with Sikhs in history, all pahadi Rajputs of Himachal and Jammu used to beat Sikhs, and Singha gave sources that Bandabairagi is Brahmin, also cited them, we know people like you who are belong to Sikh named subreddit community , (they never respected brahmins) , so you should include that brahmins who contributed to sikhism, your wahe guru is written by brahmin named bhatt gayand and govind singh also learn lessons from a brahmin named kriparam dutt Gaur brahmin (talk) 03:13, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Sikh empire battles

Buddy it makes no sense to have battle of khanadar 1834 and to include the sikhs in the Anglo-Afghan war. First the Anglo-afghan war happened between 1839-1842 so why the hell is there a battle which is supposed to be from that war in 1834?? Also Sikhs never went to Kandahar. 2nd the sikhs only were involved in an invasion of Kabul in 1839 that’s it and that was a victory. So it’s stupid to include the sikhs in the Anglo-afghan war when they only did 1 thing and were successful. Historian2325 (talk) 21:02, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Sikh empire battles

I did make a mistake by saying the battle of Kandahar was apart of the Anglo-Afghan wars. It wasn’t and was listed as an afghan-Sikh war which is ridiculous. Shah shuja durrani was living in Punjab during these times and was trying to befriend the Sikhs and British as he believed they could help him get his kingdom back. This battle was apart of shah shuja war to regain his kingdom not the Afghan-Sikh wars cuz again Sikhs never went to Kandahar Historian2325 (talk) 21:18, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

@Historian2325 This is WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH, what do the sources say? That’s what we go by on Wikipedia alone. ThethPunjabi (talk) 21:19, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Still new to wiki so I don’t know how some of the things work but still what I’ve said isn’t wrong and it was simple to debunk like ask yourself if Sikhs never went to Kandahar how does it make sense to say ranjit singh was defeated, the man never step foot in Kandahar. You’ve never heard of the Sikhs victory parade in Kabul? Historian2325 (talk) 21:28, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

@Historian2325 It doesn’t matter what we may think as individuals, we only follow what the reliable sources put out by academics/scholars say. Basing our edits on our own conjecture/theories/research of a topic is not allowed on Wikipedia. ThethPunjabi (talk) 21:31, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

I would add sources just don’t know how people do it,but it’s like common sense, Sikhs never went to Kandahar why is that so hard to understand? Anyways though just do one thing please and just search up shah shuja durrani wiki. Everything I mentioned on the Kabul invasion is there. It shows he had 2 reign and the 2nd started in 1839 cuz of the Kabul invasion. It says in his wiki he got ranjit singh and the British support and that with their help got his throne back. Historian2325 (talk) 21:36, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

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June 2023

Your edit to Manji (Sikhism) has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources for more information. Nobody (talk) 05:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

@1AmNobody24 I was the one who wrote that article on Reddit. You can see it linked to my Wikipedia account. I did not copyright violate myself. ThethPunjabi (talk) 05:42, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi @ThethPunjabi I've restored your edits, as it seems you are right. But for the next time: Don't add content to Wikipedia that you've posted on another website before unless you can clearly prove that you're the author. Even this time it's not proven clearly since: Anyone can link accounts on a link tree and that doesn’t really prove it's you. Nobody (talk) 06:06, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

@1AmNobody24 Thank you, I'll be careful next time. Sorry for any inconveniences caused. ThethPunjabi (talk) 06:07, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

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File:National Development Council (NDC) of India logo.jpg listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:National Development Council (NDC) of India logo.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 08:36, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

File:Deen Dayal Upadhyaya Gram Jyoti Yojana (DDUGJY) logo.png listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Deen Dayal Upadhyaya Gram Jyoti Yojana (DDUGJY) logo.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 08:45, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

PARAM logo

Hi. I'm not able to determine weather the logo File:PARAM supercomputers logo.jpg is indeed PARAM logo from the website https://www.cdac.in/index.aspx?id=hpc_ss_param_shavak. Do you have other links? — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 09:06, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, I believe I cropped the following logo: link to show only the PARAM text. You can see this graphic pasted on the side on their supercomputers, such as here: link ThethPunjabi (talk) 18:04, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

File:International Committee of Medical Journal Editors (ICMJE) logo.jpg listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:International Committee of Medical Journal Editors (ICMJE) logo.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 09:42, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

File:Clinical Trials Registry – India (CTRI) logo.jpg listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Clinical Trials Registry – India (CTRI) logo.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. — DaxServer (t · m · e · c) 09:52, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Logo of the National Supercomputing Mission.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:Logo of the National Supercomputing Mission.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. 185.172.241.184 (talk) 10:39, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Tamil Nadu Industrial Development Corporation logo.png

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Thanks for uploading File:Tamil Nadu Industrial Development Corporation logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. 185.172.241.184 (talk) 10:40, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Millennium Promise Alliance (MPA) logo.webp

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Thanks for uploading File:Millennium Promise Alliance (MPA) logo.webp. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. 185.172.241.184 (talk) 10:42, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Radha Swami Satsang Dinod official logo.gif

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Thanks for uploading File:Radha Swami Satsang Dinod official logo.gif. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. 185.172.241.184 (talk) 10:42, 27 June 2023 (UTC)