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Archive 1Archive 2

Notice of Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents discussion

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Violation of policy on courtesy vanishing. Thank you. GeneralNotability (talk) 17:20, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

The master of marksmen

This is "quality", not "quantity". The article considers not only the number of goals, but the prolificity also (goal to game rate). Γεώργιος Τερζής 2 (talk) 13:57, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello! Of course, the source (FIFA's "the master of marksmen") does, but the WP article doesn't: it's about quantity and, as said before, is based on the weakest-"roughest" of statistics-metrics: just the plainest metric of all, i.e. the count number of goals, in the case of IFFHS, which source doesn't even divulge the number of matches of the players, so people cannot create a ratio based on their source, and RSSSF has been also sorted by the number of goals, even though it gives you the possibility to find the ratio... by the way, a "better" (closer to reality) statistic for prolificity would be if assists were also considered, where those are applicable (and to be approached based on mean, medium et c. of the teams played to the players that assists can't be directly found, numbers of the relevant era played), and then a ratio to be made as such: #goals per minute, and not only per matches... actually, to make it to be about quality and not quantity requires a scientific approach where there are well-defined (well-explained) thresholds, and, as expressed another time, I am of the opinion that all-time records are pointless, i.e. it should be about the prolificity of a football era (15-20 years), and then, for instance, it wouldn't obviously be 500 or more goals (which is something arbitrarily, without explanation, set as the significant threshold by the statistical organizations-sites) but less, as, for instance, that doesn't even give a top 10 for the last 20 years, et c. and it wouldn't be the same in all eras: also, there would be a threshold for the number of matches as well: one chosen as best after statistical analyses that includes the significant majority... a quality approach would surely include players like Fernando Morena, Johan Cruyff, Diego Maradona, Michel Platini (all last three have been named at least once by many people with the required background-knowledge as "the best") et c., et c., and then the whole picture would change... Lorry Gundersen (talk) 07:56, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

List of men's footballers with the most official appearances (Regarding Iniesta)

Helo (I made this writing in the "talk" page under "List of men's footballers with the most official appearances" but i take my chances here as well:)


Thanks for responses and explanations and it looked like the 6 games in International in 2018 was for Spain for me also. Just one question more: It says on this site (see FootballDatabase.eu source here, that Iniesta has 7 games in the 2020 season in Continental category but they have included 1 game which is annulled according to this source - https://www.worldfootball.net/player_summary/iniesta/afc-champions-league-2020_2/vissel-kobe/3/ and they also have 7 games. This source here = https://www.playmakerstats.com/player_results.php?id=762&competicao_id=159&epoca_id=149 they have 6 games so do not include this game so my question is should a annulled game be included on the list or not i mean in referrence to Romario mentioned at the bottom where annulled matches is not included so that Romario would be on the list.

Hope for reply best regards

Bakermannn (talk) 01:38, 03 October 2021 (UTC)
@Bakermannn:
Hello!
I will respond to the matter on the talk page of the list as soon as possible: if not later today, definitely tomorrow...
Regards!
Lorry Gundersen (talk) 07:50, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

List of men's footballers with the most official appearances (Regarding Roberto Carlos and Rogerio Ceni)

Helo i have made a comment on the change in games for "Roberto Carlos" in the "talk" section and also made a "new section" regarding "Rogerio Ceni" and hope for a reply. Best Regards :)

Hello just to say i have made a reply on Carlos and Ceni in "talk" section :)

Bakermannn (talk) 13:01, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Neville Southall

Hello and thanks for Messi info. Just a quick one if i may on something i have thought about, in the old 900+ games list "Neville Southall" had 996 games so 4 short but i always thought if he did play at least 4 games on the Wales U21 or other U teams but i have not found any info on that so maybe he did not but just wanted to ask you if you also think the same or if you have any sources or channels to find out?

Best Regards

Bakermannn (talk) 07:00, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

Andres Iniesta

Hello according to this link: https://www.bdfutbol.com/en/j/j159.html which is in the ref already when you go there and under the list of seasons only "1st Division" and "2nd Division B" is showing so then he have 49 games for Barca B but if you then push the "Promotion to 2nd division" also you get 5 (25 to 30) more games in the 2001/02 season so then 49+5=54 in total could this 5 be the games you are searching for and therefore reduced his games?

In regards to the Catalonia subject i have to admit i only saw the 2 games on his WP (infobox) cite so i have no ref. for this it was more for me an example just to ask about this subject if it should be included or not in the list of 1000 games so i understand we need to have a ref. for this so apologise if it was confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bakermannn (talk • contribs) 14:03, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

best regards

Bakermannn (talk) 12:39, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello! Yes, you are right. I reverted the edit. Thanks! Lorry Gundersen (talk) 13:55, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Xavi

Hello i think it is correct with 117 games for Al-Sadd for Xavi as it was before and here is why. First i want to say that i think if you look here at his wp cite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavi#Career_statistics) i think this is correct on him with 117 games in total. If we match his wp cite with this source https://www.footballdatabase.eu/en/player/details/394--xavi and take season by season:

TOPIC 1 season 2015-16: The "footballdatabase" says 27 games total and wp says 30 games so we have 3 games in diff. and i think i have them. If you look here https://www.footballdatabase.eu/en/club/team/2903-al_sadd_sc/2015-2016 and scroll a bit down u see a line with all the different competitions (ALL PLAYERS QATAR STARS LEAGUE SHEIKH JASSIM CUP AFC CHAMPIONS LEAGUE EMIR OF QATAR CUP) and take each comp. then scroll down to Xavi and see "display stats" and match it with the info on wp cite. I found that footballdatabase on EMIR OF QATAR CUP have 1 game (https://www.footballdatabase.eu/fr/match/resume/1438663-al_sadd_sc-al_duhail) and wp have 3 games (in cup section) so 2 games diff and here i have sources for the 2 other games. game 1 (in norwegian): https://www.eurosport.no/fotball/emir-cup/2015-2016/live-al-gharrafa-al-sadd_mtc855421/live.shtml, Game 2: https://www.besoccer.com/match/al-rayyan/al-sadd/2016386295 so then we have 27+2=29 games. Then the game in the QATAR CUP (also known as prince cup) the footballdatabase do not have but playmakerstats have this game here: https://www.playmakerstats.com/jogo.php?id=4944711so then we have 27+2+1=30 games for season 2015/16 and not only 27 games as footballdatabase have.

TOPIC 2 season 2017-18: Here wp have 28 games in total and footballdatabase have 26 games in total so 2 games in diff. The 2 games in diff. is in the "QATAR CUP" where footballdatabase from this link https://www.footballdatabase.eu/en/club/team/2903-al_sadd_sc/2017-2018 when you select "QATAR CUP" do not have Xavi in it when you scroll down on players. The first game you see here: https://www.footballdatabase.eu/en/match/summary/1722275-al_sadd_sc-al_rayyan but when you scroll down you see that under team line ups only 5-6 players is mentioned (strange) but not Xavi but here i have a source for the game: https://www.besoccer.com/match/al-sadd/al-rayyan/2018786802 where you see his name so then we have 26+1=27 games. Then the other game you see here https://www.footballdatabase.eu/en/match/summary/1722277-al_sadd_sc-al_duhail but no line up for al-sadd but here i have a source https://en.as.com/en/2018/04/27/soccer/1524856107_335716.html which says that he got sent off in the game so then we have 26+1+1=28 games for 2017-18.

TOPIC 3 season 2018-19: Here footballdatabase have 25 games in total and wp have 27 games in total so 2 games in diff. If you look here (https://www.footballdatabase.eu/en/club/team/2903-al_sadd_sc/2018-2019) and select the EMIR OF QATAR CUP and go down to Xavi you see that he played 1 game but he actually played 3 games in that comp. All the 3 games you have here from playmakerstats: https://www.playmakerstats.com/player_results.php?id=768&competicao_id=5154&epoca_id=148 so the 2 games missing so then we have 25+2=27 games in total.

So for me based on this is that wp (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavi#Career_statistics) looks correct and the diff (117-110=7) is found and therefore it should go back to 117 games as before what do you think?

EXTRA TOPIC: Just a question on the catalonia games as you sad they are official but lets say "how" official are they if you know what i mean or easier said maybe are they in a bit of a "grey" area. If you remember this game here link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1izSY-b6nM4 and you go to about 0 min. and 40 sec. into the video you see they celebrate him taking Xavi record (767 games) in the pitch and so but if you take the Catalonia and supercup games into account Xavi has 1 "official" game more than messi (Messi 778 and Xavi 779) according to your ref. Just curious about why they would celebrate him beating the record if the Catalonia games counted so much and he would still be behind Xavi this is just a thought and not a no or yes to include them what do you think?

Hope for reply and ask if anything is unclear.

Cheers.

Bakermannn (talk) 05:46, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Dani Alves

Hi again i took a look into his games for sevilla. If we take this ref: https://www.worldfootball.net/player_summary/dani-alves/ and this ref: https://www.bdfutbol.com/en/j/j477.html i get 249 games for Sevilla. If i take playmakerstats i get 244 games but i see that they are missing 6 games in copa del rey in this season: https://www.playmakerstats.com/player_results.php?id=1051&competicao_id=99&epoca_id=136 compared to this link: https://www.bdfutbol.com/en/p/j477.html?temp=2006-07&cat=COP and this: https://www.worldfootball.net/player_summary/dani-alves/esp-copa-del-rey-2006-2007/sevilla-fc/3/ so then playmakerstats would have 244+6=250 games and one more than worldfootball and bdfutbol which takes me to this 1 game. The one game is this game: https://www.playmakerstats.com/player_results.php?id=1051&competicao_id=99&epoca_id=132 but worlfootball: https://www.worldfootball.net/team_performance/sevilla-fc/esp-copa-del-rey-2002-2003/ and bdfutbol: https://www.bdfutbol.com/en/j/j477.html have that he did not play a game in copa del rey this season and since playmakerstats can not name the game if we take it away they would also get 249 games same as the others. To complicate even more this ref: https://www.footballdatabase.eu/fr/joueur/details/1646-dani-alves also have one national cup game in this season and 250 total so to me it gets down to if he played 1 copa del rey game in 2002-03 season or not between 249 or 250 games for Sevilla. Then i finally looked at "besoccer" and they do not have him in any match squad in the 4 games Sevilla played in copa del rey in 2002-03 links: https://www.besoccer.com/match/sevilla/numancia/200339538 - https://www.besoccer.com/match/numancia/sevilla/200339530 - https://www.besoccer.com/match/sevilla/osasuna/200339542 - https://www.besoccer.com/match/osasuna/sevilla/200339547

So based on this with worldfootball, bdfutbol, besoccer and playmakerstats(when add 6 missing in 2006-07 and take away the game without info 2002-03) on 249 games and only footballdatabase with 250 i would say 249 games for him what do you think and do you have other info?


Kind regards

Bakermannn (talk) 13:05, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Graham Alexander

Hello i just have 2 topics on Graham Alexander i want to test with you:

TOPIC 1 Burnley: I want to say that on Burnley he went from 177 to 178 games based on the ref which is there. However i think his wp cite here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Alexander#Career_statistics is correct with 177 games. If you look in this refs: https://www.worldfootball.net/player_summary/graham-alexander/2/ - https://www.playmakerstats.com/player_seasons.php?id=49005 - https://www.transfermarkt.com/graham-alexander/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/13983/verein/1132 - https://the72.co.uk/213937/ex-luton-town-preston-man-graham-alexander-out-of-his-comfort-zone-as-he-lands-scottish-premiership-job/ - https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/football/ex-burnley-star-favourite-for-league-two-job-as-everton-join-race-for-eight-goal-striker-3067792 and others he have 177 games. If you also look on this ref https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=87&season_id=140 on Burnley you see that when you count the games you get to 178 BUT it says 4 games in the "other" section and i think it should be 3 games because if you (under other section) choose the "Choose another season" and go thru every season he played for Burnley the only games other than league, fa cup and league cup is the 3 play off games he played in 2008-09 season and that would mean 177 games on this cite also. Finally also this source https://archive.ph/KEby that you have added has 177 games also. What do you think of all this?

TOPIC 2 Scunthorpe: Here it was changed from 200 to 202 games based on ref there. On this ref https://the72.co.uk/213937/ex-luton-town-preston-man-graham-alexander-out-of-his-comfort-zone-as-he-lands-scottish-premiership-job/ and especially this ref https://www.myfootballbooks.com/blog/book-review-20-legends-scunthorpe-united-fc it says 200 games. I think "especially" on the last ref mentioned because if we believe that the text comes from the book about "20 Legends - Scunthorpe United F.C." then we could maybe assume that the author has done research into it and 200 games seems a strong case? Just to mention it would also mean that wp page is correct here. Just want your opinion on this refs compared to this ref https://www.11v11.com/players/graham-alexander-666/ (in the refs already)

Cheers

Bakermannn (talk) 19:29, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Djalma Santos++

Hello

Just a few topics more if i can:

TOPIC 1 Graham Alexander: I will keep in mind the info on transfermarkt sources and so, why i did miss the U23 game there i do not know but i did. Just wonder since on Cristiano Ronaldo it is separated "lines" with Sporting B 2 games and Sporting 31 games should it also be done that for Alexander like a new "line" named Burnley U23 1 game and Burnley 177 games just what do you think?

TOPIC 2 Timmy Simons: I see the one source says 74 games for Lommel here i just wonder do you also have detailed season/competition games on him since i got to 73 games for him. What i have is season 1998-99: league 33, cup 2 and intertoto cup 4 so 39 in TOTAL. Then season 1999-00: league 32 and cup 2 so 34 in TOTAL. So 39+34=73 games. I just wonder if there are some B team game or anything like that maybe?

TOPIC 3 Djalma Santons: Just want to say that when i looked at Cafu here https://www.palmeiras.com.br/pt-br/craques/cafu/ and match it with this cite https://www.verdazzo.com.br/jogadores/cafu/page/3/ where you can see all the single games he played with competition and other detailes on each game you see he has 102 games on both. But if you look thru the games you see that it was also 11 "amistosos" and other friendly tournament games in them so i counted 91 "official" games for him. Then i did it with Rivaldo here https://www.palmeiras.com.br/pt-br/craques/rivaldo/ compared it to this https://www.verdazzo.com.br/jogadores/rivaldo-2/ where he has 129 games on both but look thru the games i counted 120 "official" games and then 9 "amistosos" and other friendly tournament games i took away. Then if you take Djalma Santos from here https://www.palmeiras.com.br/pt-br/craques/djalma-santos/ with 502 games and compare it to this https://www.verdazzo.com.br/jogadores/djalma-santos/page/50/ where it says 497 games so they have 5 games in diff but it is very close. Since you also can look thru the games on the last link mentioned you see there is some amount of "Amistosos" here as well i think that the source in the ref list with 502 games also include some amistos that you can take away using this https://www.verdazzo.com.br/jogadores/djalma-santos/page/50/ as mentioned even if it has 497 games total instead of 502 games total. Is this something to use you think?

Cheers

Bakermannn (talk) 07:48, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello

I just want to say you are doing a great job on the list and keep up the good work and thanks for thorough explanations. Just a few additions:

TOPIC 1: I agree with you easier with relation to the ref and try to avoid any conflicts or confusion not needed.

TOPIC 2: Thanks for answer.

TOPIC 3: I agree that "significance must be given to Palmeiras' official site" i just want to say that my "concern" is that in the number 502 games for Palmeiras it maybe can be alot of "friendly" games also counted. On the Verdazzo page (https://www.verdazzo.com.br/jogadores/djalma-santos/page/1/) i went thru all of the 50 pages with his games listed and tried to quickly (not thorough) count the games which was under "Campeonato" and was named "Amistoso" (friendly) and i counted 95 games. So based on that if you take his Verdazzo total 497-95=402 games so it would mean that his "official" (not friendly) games in total is closer to +/- 400 games instead of +/- 500 games according to Verdazzo. Based on this could it also be like in this ref https://www.palmeiras.com.br/pt-br/craques/djalma-santos/ with 502 games there is also counted alot of "Amistoso" (friendly) games in the 502 which would get in a kind of "conflict" with the "list of 1000 games" is only for "official" games? So my question is that since so many as 95 games of total 497 games is "Amistoso" (friendly) in verdazzo counting is it not likely that in the 502 games from Palmeiras homepage a lot of this "Amistoso" (friendly) games is also counted there? I know with the number of +/- 95 friendly games he would be out of the list since his total is 1,066 games in his career so it is why since the number is so high it is a lets say "major" one. Just curious could this https://www.cbf.com.br/selecao-brasileira/torcedor/jogadores-imortais/djalma-santos-completaria-89-anos-nesta-terca also have friendly games in their 494 totals for Palmeiras? What do you think is it something in this or am i on the "long shot" here?

Best regards.

Bakermannn (talk) 06:43, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Fabio

Hello

TOPIC 1 Fabio games on the Cruzeiro FIRST team (A team): I agree that if we only compare Ogol and cruzeiropedia that Ogol should be used instead but when i used cruzeiropedia i also used an article from the Cruzeiro homepage to "back up" the numbers on cruzeiropedia. If you take this page: https://www.cruzeiro.com.br/noticia/show/18205/fabio-chega-a-marca-de-900-partidas-com-a-camisa-do-cruzeiro--fabio (in the ref) it is an article when Fabio reached 900 games for Cruzeiro. If you scroll down until you see "Por competições" where it says how many games in which competition i tried to take away the friendly games. Then i took away "Amistosos - 19 jogos" and the "Torneio de Verão (Uruguai) - 2 jogos" (which is a friendly tournament see https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campeonato_Internacional_de_Verano) which is then 19+2=21 "amistosos" (friendly) games which match the "amistosos" 21 games in cruzeiropedia also. Then i took 900-21=879 games which as i can see is the number of "official" games by the time he reached 900 games "include" friendlies and by the time the article was written which was "08/10/2020 21:34" (in the top picture). So if we take that by "08/10/2020 21:34" he has 879 official games i tried to count every "official games" he played after this date until "present date". Since the 900 (879 official) happened in the 2020 season i tried to look for "official games" he played after this date "08/10/2020 21:34" until the end of the season 2020. Since Cruzeiro played Serie B in 2020 it made it a bit easier since if you see here: https://www.cruzeiro.com.br/noticia/show/18205/fabio-chega-a-marca-de-900-partidas-com-a-camisa-do-cruzeiro--fabio under the "Por competições" he had played 14 games in Serie B (Campeonato Brasileiro - Série B - 14 jogos) by the time of 900 (879 official) games including this game quote from article: "Um dos maiores ídolos do Cruzeiro Esporte Clube de todos os tempos, o goleiro Fábio disputou, no confronto com o Sampaio Corrêa, nesta quinta-feira, no Mineirão, a 900ª partida com a camisa cinco estrelas" which is this game in playmakerstats: https://www.playmakerstats.com/jogo.php?id=7363003 If we then look here: https://www.playmakerstats.com/player_results.php?id=5637&epoca_id=149&ps=1 and count every game played after "08/10/2020 21:34" i get 22 games until the end of 2020. So then for me it is 879+22=901 official games after the 2020 season. Then we look at the 2021 season here: https://www.playmakerstats.com/player_results.php?grp=1&edicao_id=0&epoca_id=150&eve=&id=5637&op=zoomstats&tpstats=club where he has of this moment played 51 games. So then we get 879+22+51=952 official games same as cruzeiropedia. As a conclusion based on this i think that when as i can see it cruzeiropedia and the article from the Cruzeiro homepage has a "match" like this then how does it stand compared to Playmakerstats do you think?

TOPIC 1 Fabio games on the Cruzeiro SECOND team (B/23 team): Here i have to say that i have little to no info but i would just like to mention some things. If you look here: https://www.playmakerstats.com/player_results.php?id=5637&epoca_id=129&ps=1 this 4 games listed as "No Competition defined" may well be played with the Cruzeiro B/23 team since he did not play any "official" games for the Cruzeiro A team in 2000 before he returned to Cruzeiro after Vasco in 2005 according to this article: https://www.cruzeiro.com.br/noticia/show/18205/fabio-chega-a-marca-de-900-partidas-com-a-camisa-do-cruzeiro--fabio (look at the beginning of the article it says quote: "Atleta que mais vezes jogou pela Raposa, Fábio começou sua vitoriosa trajetória no Clube em 2000, aos 19 anos. Reserva de André, jogou apenas uma partida, um amistoso contra o Universal-RJ, da segunda divisão do Campeonato Carioca, vencido pelo Cruzeiro por 2 x 0 no dia 4 de março, sob o comando do técnico Paulo Autuori. Nesse mesmo ano, o ídolo integrou o elenco estrelado que conquistou a Copa do Brasil.Após mais de quatro anos no Vasco, Fábio voltou ao Cruzeiro em uma troca envolvendo o atacante Alex Dias e foi apresentado em 7 de janeiro de 2005, juntamente com o volante Marabá e o lateral-esquerdo Athirson"

So hope for an comment/opinion of what i have about Fabio here and if something is unclear please tell...

P.S. i will make an comment on Javier Zanetti also.

Cheers

Bakermannn (talk) 20:17, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello

I agree that the article on 900 games and cruzeiropedia "only" talk about Cruzeiro "A" team matches but it seems cruzeiropedia is correct in terms of those matches in their counting compared to the article 900 games would you say? When it comes to Cruzeiro "B" team matches that he has games there seems very likely especially in 2000 before Vasco so i agree to that.

cheers

Bakermannn (talk) 21:31, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Ali Ashfaq

I couldn't find any other source to extend the club goals stats for Ali Ashfaq, besides his profile at the NationalFootballTeams.com. It shows his 272 goals scored in 264 matches, updated to the 2021–22 Dhivehi Premier League season. — Hemant Dabral (📞 • ✒) 19:37, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Lorry Gundersen, You may try these local Maldives football websites, Football Association of Maldives, MaldivesFootball.com and MaldivesSoccer.com. — Hemant Dabral (📞 • ✒) 20:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
@ Hemant Dabral: Hello! Many thanks for the links. Kind regards! Lorry Gundersen (talk) 22:15, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Javier Zanetti

Hello

For the 861 games for Inter on playmakerstats here: https://www.playmakerstats.com/player.php?id=2013 and if you compare it to worldfootball here: https://www.worldfootball.net/player_summary/javier-zanetti/2/ he has 858 games same as Inter have on him so it means 3 games in diff. The 3 games in diff. is this games: https://www.playmakerstats.com/jogo.php?id=46959 compare to https://www.worldfootball.net/report/uefa-cup-2003-2004-achtelfinale-inter-sl-benfica/ and https://www.playmakerstats.com/jogo.php?id=183382 compare to https://www.worldfootball.net/report/coppa-italia-2004-2005-finale-inter-as-roma/ and https://www.playmakerstats.com/jogo.php?id=197472 compare to https://www.worldfootball.net/report/serie-a-2005-2006-inter-us-lecce/ What stand out for me is that on playmakerstats they have that JAVIER Zanetti plays but in worldfootball they have that CRISTIANO Zanetti playes and not JAVIER Zanetti so could this be a "mix up" of names in playmakerstats that is the reason he has 3 more games there? If you look in this game here: https://www.playmakerstats.com/jogo.php?id=197472 compared to this https://www.worldfootball.net/report/serie-a-2005-2006-inter-us-lecce/ you also se that playmakerstats claims that JAVIER Zanetti was substituted in the 78 minute while worldfootball claims it was CRISTIANO Zanetti which was substituted in the 78 minute so could this more strongly claim that playmakerstats in this 3 games have the wrong Zanetti in their matches? I also would like to say that for me it seems that playmakerstats and worldfootball agrees on all the other seasons and games so what do you make of this?

Kind Regards

Bakermannn (talk) 22:33, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello

On Argentina U23 game: On the Argentina U23 game i agree it seems very validated so for me you can add that one.

On games for Inter: I agree with your analysis on all the 3 games for Inter BUT i have found another game which maybe is a bit of a problem i want you to look at it. If you look here on playmakerstats: https://www.playmakerstats.com/jogo.php?id=288040 and here on worldfootball: https://www.worldfootball.net/report/europa-league-2001-2002-2-runde-inter-wisla-krakow/ they both have JAVIER Zanetti in the game BUT if you look at this page: http://historiawisly.pl/wiki/index.php?title=2001.10.18_Inter_Mediolan_-_Wis%C5%82a_Krak%C3%B3w_2:0 (i know it is a wp page)and maybe most importantly this page from the UEFA own homepage: https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/match/68526--inter-vs-wisla-krakow/ they have that it was CRISTIANO Zanetti who played the game and that JAVIER Zanetti remained on the bench and was not among the 3 players who was substituted into the game for Inter. So my question is that could both playmakerstats and worldfootball be wrong about him playing in this game and also should UEFA own homepage "validate" the most in terms of reliable and it also get supported from this "historiawisly" (i know it is a wp page) it could maybe be an reliable as well? Please give me your thoughts on this since it would mean that he would be standing on 858 games still if this game does not count and the Inter page maybe correct after all?

P.S. I know what you said about Transfermarkt i just want to add the link here: https://www.transfermarkt.com/fc-internazionale_wisla-krakow/aufstellung/spielbericht/1173329 since they also have CRISTIANO Zanetti playing and JAVIER Zanetti remain on the bench IN relation to the UEFA homepage.

Greetings

Bakermannn (talk) 01:46, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

HELLO

Sounds good what you wrote. Just a minor thing i noticed that you wrote "where it also says he made 615 appearances in Serie A instead of the 618 that the cite of Inter has" and i think i know why it is like that. If you look here at worldfootball: https://www.worldfootball.net/player_summary/javier-zanetti/ita-serie-a/2/ they have 618 games in Serie A but look closely in the season stats you notice this: 2 games in "1998/1999 Uefa-Cup" and 1 game in "1999/2000 Playoff" so it is 2+1=3 play off games in total. My guess is that some articles/cites choose to include the play off games which make it 618 like Inter while others choose to exclude the play off games and that make it 615 so only the "ordinary/usual" games, do you think the same?

Cheers

Bakermannn (talk) 05:43, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Marcelinho Paraíba

Hello

I agree with you to do what you suggested.

Best Regards

Bakermannn (talk) 01:50, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Kazuyoshi Miura

Hello

Based on this info here from ogol https://www.playmakerstats.com/player_seasons.php?id=23243 should it be added that UD Oliveirense is his new club?

kind regards Bakermannn (talk) 16:51, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

my bad he shall play a game first off course...

kind regards Bakermannn (talk) 16:51, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Zlatan, ramos and pepe reina

Hello!

When i took a quick look at his wp cite and took all his club games together with all the national teams games i got 994 i know it is maybe a bit early but do you also see it like this that when/if he plays 6 more games should be on the 1000 list? I also did the same sergio ramos with 989 games and it also seems that pepe reina is not to far away either so just how do you see this?

P.S. Just to inform i have not looked for sources for all these games+++++

Best regards. Bakermannn (talk) 02:18, 10 February 2023 (UTC)

Modric

Hello!

Just to quick respond in regards to Dynamo it seems that it is matches in the croatian cup which differs but ogol seems to have some matches as the "not defined" which seems like the cup games so maybe it is a few very early games in the competition against lower division/ranked teams etc which ogol does not have do you think the same?

Maybe you have this but in season 2006/07 for Dynamo ogol has 7 games and 1 goal as "not defined" and i think that 1 of the 7 games and the 1 goal is from the croatian super cup 2006 which i have a source for here https://sportnet.hr/vijesti/310352/ and wp cite here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_Football_Super_Cup#2006

will tell if i find more++++


Kind regards. Bakermannn (talk) 02:02, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

List of men's footballers with the most official appearances

Hello!

Do you know who are the 4-5 next footballers to enter the 1,000 appearances club? Or, maybe, who seems to be a part of this club in 2023, or later?

Kind regards!

JOGIROX JOGIROX (talk) 08:12, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Yasuhito Endō

Hello!

Just a quick question, I wonder why you use the name "Kagoshima Mitsutaka" on his first team, and not the "Kagoshima Jitsugyo HS", like in his WP bio article?

Best regards, Bakermannn (talk) 02:17, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Ali Daei

Why do you claim Ali Daei scored 109 goals, when RSSSF claims only 108? Seitan79 (talk) 14:44, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

Ray Clemence

Hello! Could I ask for a quick favour if/when you have time? In the season 1966–67 he played 46 games (link:https://www.lfchistory.net/players/player/profile/282) for Scunthorpe, I know that 44 of them were in the league, and I just wonder about the other 2, were them in the FA Cup/League Cup or one in each, is it on the ENFA?

Kind regards, Bakermannn (talk) 01:26, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello!

Thank you so much!!

Kind regards, Bakermannn (talk) 01:26, 07 April 2023 (UTC)

Pat Jennings

Hello

Here have RSSSF (https://www.rsssf.org/players/dzdjennings.html) information about more games for him like Newry Town, Tottenham Hotspur Reserves++++other games also.

P.S. 597 for Tottenham (not 596 like the ref here https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news-archive-1/spurs-dream-team-the-result/) The 1 game i think is if you in this link (https://www.footballdatabase.eu/en/player/details/16561-pat-jennings) look in season 1985-1986 he played in the "Screen Sport Super Cup" for Tottenham it is also specified on the RSSSF link at the bottom.

Just would like to inform in case you did not have this.

Kind regards Bakermannn (talk) 03:45, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Vandalism accusations

Did you actually check articles before accusing somebody of vandalism? There are many reasons why edits were made there (articles about Dani Alves, Denis Cheryshev and Marco van Basten): 1) When Bahia won Campeonata Baiano and Copa do Nordeste in 2001, Dani Alves had not debuted yet. He was not called up for Trophée des Champions in 2018. Copa Catalunya and Supercopa de Catalunya are not considered as major trophies. Therefore, the correct numbers of titles won by Dani Alves is 41 (43 if you include accomplishments from youth squads). The link that says that he won more trophies than 41 are incorrect. 2) Denis Cheryshev left Real Madrid in February of 2016. He cannot be recognized as 2015-16 Champions League winner because he was not registered as a part of the team after the group stage. 3) Marco van Basten was not called up for any single match after 1992-93 season. If Marco van Basten was not called up for any single match after 1992-1993 season, it means that he gave absolutely no affect on further accomplishments of the team at all. Therefore, it is incorrect to claim that he gained new team trophies after 1992-93 season. He also was not called up for European Super Cup in 1990. One more thing, the link was given to you. Look there and follow the consensus. NextEditor123 (talk) 06:48, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Zinho (Crizam César de Oliveira Filho)

Hello

On the RSSSF list here https://www.rsssf.org/players/duizend.html if you look at number 21 you get Zinho with 1085 games. I took a look at him and here is what i found: Flamengo 366 games (flaestatistica), cruzeiro 32 games (cruzeiropedia), palmeiras 317 games (verdazzo), gremio 146 games (gremiopedia), Yokohama Flügels 107 games (ogol), Nova Iguaçu FC 4 games (ogol), miami FC 53 games (footballdatabase) and brazil 57 games (ogol)=1082

I counted them and off course took away the friendlies/amistosos (i hope i counted correct it was a lot of games). It is 3 games diff (1085-1082=3) so it is maybe games from U Brazil teams, some SELECTION teams or something else (look into it more thourough) but just want to ask do you think it is safe to say he is well within 1000 games and should be on the list?

P.S. look forward to answer on Pat Jennings also but no hurry and i agree 100% with you on Luka Modric and what you said about him.

Kind regards Bakermannn (talk) 00:46, 8 April 2023 (UTC)



Hello

Sorry forgot about the previous writing from you on Pat Jennings and so.

In regards to what you said about gremiopedia they have 11 more games than ogol so i took a look and i found this:

  • SEASON 2001: Here ogol and gremiopedia is agreed on 63 games so far so good right?

So could we say after season 2001 and 2002 gremiopedia and ogol is agreed?

  • SEASON 2000: Here gremiopedia has 54 games and ogol 40 so 14 games in diff and here is those:

Campeonato Gaúcho: Here ogol has 5 games https://www.playmakerstats.com/player_results.php?id=5287&competicao_id=904&epoca_id=129 and gremiopedia has 15 games so 15-5=10 games in diff. Then i looked here https://www.footballdatabase.eu/en/player/details/13779--zinho and they also have 15 games like gremiopedia so this is enough to "back up" gremiopedia with 15?

So far Gremiopedia is valid right?

Copa Sul-Minas: Here ogol has 2 games and gremiopedia (https://www.gremiopedia.com/wiki/Jogos_do_Gr%C3%AAmio_em_2000) has 6 so 6-2=4 games in diff. The games gremiopedia has more is dates 26 january, 29 january, 2 february, and 5 february. The game on 5 february against Parana he actually scored link here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIMl7bFXmnQ (the first goal the commentary says his name Zinho). The 3 games left i only found this as of this moment link http://fichasdosjogosdogremio.blogspot.com/search/label/2000 i know it is a blog but how do see this as a ref?

Conclusion as of know we have at least 143 of 146 games for Gremio and the 3 games left if we use the blog which is maybe not enough but just how would you see this so far?

P.S. About cruzeiropedia with 32 games we also have ogol and footballdatabase with 32 also.

Kind regards.

Bakermannn (talk) 00:46, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello!

Just a quick comment i did check the games he has for Palmeiras from Verdazzo with futebol80 (http://www.futebol80.com.br/links/times/palmeiras/palmeirasft.htm) and as far as i can see they agree on 316 official games played (i said previous that it was 317 games but this time i came to 316 games).

Best regards

Bakermannn (talk) 03:35, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello! Also counted again and got 365 games (not 366) on flaestatistica.


Bakermannn (talk) 08:23, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello

Just wanted to say that i have added Zinho to the list with refs but just add/correct/fix etc on it and so on is this ok?

P.S. On Gremio i added 135 games from ogol since i want your take on gremiopedia 146 games+++ as i have explained in the previous post.

Kind regards.

Bakermannn (talk) 00:46, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Pepe Reina

Hello! I think i have it here and for me it seems he has played 1004 games as of now. Here is the teams and sources: barcelona c (playmakerstats), barcelona b - barcelona - villareal (bdfutbol), liverpool (lfc history), napoli - bayern - milan - aston villa - lazio (playmakerstats) and all spain games (besoccer).

Do you agree and how do you see this?

P.S. here is an article with him having played 1000 games (https://villarrealcf.es/en/pepe-reina-reaches-1000-games-as-a-professional/) but they were missing a few like Barcelona C as an example.

Kind regards Bakermannn (talk) 21:03, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Stanley Matthews, Pat Jennings and Roberto Carlos

Hello! To be honest i have to say that i do not think i can take over and to the same "extent" as you have because you have done it so great/thourough and it will be hard for me to keep up the same "level" both time wise and otherwise, but i will do when i can so to speak. I can check/add the players when i can but at the moment it is a bit difficult because of holiday time and so on.

P.S. Just quick question about ZINHO on Gremiopedia has 146 games to ogol 135 games but i wrote to you that i thought i could get the 146 games covered but i had found like this sources here http://fichasdosjogosdogremio.blogspot.com/search/label/2000 and a youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIMl7bFXmnQ)++++ about a goal etc but would it be ok/correct to add like a youtube video and this cite as a source or is that a "no go" just curious?

Kind regards Bakermannn (talk) 20:06, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

@Bakermannn: Hello! Well, if there isn't any contradictory source, i.e. a ref with lineups claiming he didn't play, yes, you can, i.e. I mean that I myself would add it. It is true blogs are generally unreliable and it's better to be avoided, but there are cases (like regional leagues in Brazil) where one will find lineups info only in blogs. P.S. I had also added matches in the past, e.g. on Hutchison, with video proofs. If the video shows the player/mentions the player, it's a good enough proof. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 13:34, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Hello! If you have time could you look at what i did add on Zinho Gremio games and see if this is OK?

Kind regards Bakermannn (talk) 20:06, 04 July 2023 (UTC)

Quora

Quora is a Q&A site. As an Internet forum, it is a self-published source that incorporates user-generated content, and is considered generally unreliable. Posts from verified accounts on Quora can be used as primary sources for statements about themselves. Posts from verified accounts of established experts may also be used to substantiate statements in their field of expertise, in accordance with the policy on self-published sources. It is not being used as a primary source, and it's not evidentially from a subject matter expert, which are the only 2 acceptable uses listed, so I don't see how it's at all controversial to say this isn't an acceptable source. One good source is better than one good source and a crap Quroa source, contrary to what you claim too. Stop edit warring to insert this junk source back. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:00, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

@Joseph2302: Hello! OK, thanks for the elaboration. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 16:06, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Test Subject

Test Description

Lorry Gundersen (talk) 08:37, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Xavi

Hello!

I added a note on xavi to explain why he has 782 games in the source at present but had 779 games before which is correct is the note i did ok enough?

kind regards Bakermannn (talk) 01:09, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Edit warring

Why are you edit warring and not discussing? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 20:45, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello! Why don't you try doing something constructive? Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 21:56, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
Which part of my edits weren't constructive? All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 22:36, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
Stop icon with clock
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours for edit warring and violating the three-revert rule. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.
During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.
If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text at the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  Daniel Case (talk) 18:33, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
@Daniel Case: Hello! Care to explain? Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 18:36, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
The same revert four times in 22-23 hours. And not under the exceptions at WP:3RRNO. Daniel Case (talk) 18:41, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
@Daniel Case: Hello! Thanks for the immediate response. What about the user I reported for vandalism? Did you check the talk page and article's edit history? Should I have reported it elsewhere? If so, where? Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 18:48, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
I start reviewing an ANEW report by looking at the article history and seeing if there has been, facially, a 3RR violation. If so, I then look at the content of the edits to see if 3RRNO applies.
When the answers are yes, and then no, what goes on on the talk page really doesn't matter. That's what happened here.
As for reporting elsewhere, yes, you certainly could, but WP:BOOMERANG is always a possibility. Daniel Case (talk) 01:57, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
I should also add that ItsKesha's edits I'd properly characterize from your perspective as not "vandalism" but "disruptive". Too many editors reporting to AIV, ANEW and sometimes RFPP conflate the two. Vandalism is the stuff that when, added to articles, clearly doesn't and would never belong: from the frequent addition of "deez nuts" to in-jokes among friends (or not) at school to commentary about the article subject, the stuff that 3RRNO describes as "clear and obvious vandalism". And while disruptive editing includes vandalism and edit warring in the broad sense, in the narrow sense I use it for edits that might at least superficially seem to have been done in good faith: additions of informative material that is poorly sourced or unsourced entirely, incorrect facts, accurate facts stated in the wrong style or format, edits that are facially fine but just happen to be against consensus, that sort of thing. Disruptive edits often started, at least, as good faith edits, and a user making them and restoring them, especially when new, ought to at least be approached as they may have, repeated warnings notwithstanding, have no idea what they're doing wrong before going off to the noticeboards.

I would put ItsKesha's edits in the latter category; as the talk page discussion suggested, they considered those edits in accord with policy despite removing a considerable amount of content. Daniel Case (talk) 02:16, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

:@Daniel Case: Hello Daniel. I have come across the conflict between :@Lorry Gundersen and ItsKesha and I would like to ask you, is Wikipedia happy having disruptive users who daily delete content and create feuds? I have experienced edit warring with the aforementioned user and made me think the rest of us who search for references, create tables, articles, spend hours of free work, are we just inferior? So, a user with zero contribution comes, deletes massive amounts of content by saying nonsense this, trivia that, not good source, needs to be updated, adds tags he insists and then if we revert is it our fault?
I think most of us are here cause Wikipedia is community and not to be hostile, condescending, and anti social. It feels like some users with tons of contribution are...pupils so users like itskesha comes as a strict teacher to correct (delete) and we have to obey! I think Wikipedia should take into consideration hostile, constant edit warring and negative behavior of its users or change its policy about disruptive editing (I wouldnt call it editing but actually Vandalism). Also, you cant argue with him, any argument you have he d say personal attack. I ve seen Lorry's contributions and I m sure he doesnt log in to argue and impose his opinion on other users but to contribute like pretty much everyone - unlike itskesha unfortunately (also is his username ok for Wikipedia, given that he is not the famous singer) Vsatin (talk) 16:49, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
@Daniel Case: Hello! Also, a friendly advice, if I may, without any offense meaning, never act like a bot, but check the context first, because, while I understand you reasoning, it's how a bot would function/answer, and not a human being behind a computer. And I am saying this for the real life, as I couldn't care less about WP. Kind regards, Lorry Gundersen (talk) 19:01, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
Generally when we give block notices (something some admins don't even bother with sometimes) we don't add context—the templated notice provides the specific reason for the block but not the edits that led to it; it would probably take too much time in some instances. It's also sort of an assumption that the user getting blocked knows why, even if they feign ignorance (in which case it usually turns out that, yes, they do know, they just don't think they should have been blocked for it). Daniel Case (talk) 02:02, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
Addendum: Granted, in the case of someone who, like you, who has never been blocked before, I agree this may have been a little confusing, so I was of course happy to explain it. Daniel Case (talk) 02:15, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Jamie Cureton

Hello! How are you? I have added Jamie Cureton to the list with refs and so on. Would like to say that on this added ref here https://www.coludata.co.uk/player/jamiecureton you will see down the page under "International Honours" it says "FA Youth: 1 app" so he has 1 more just did not add this because did not now how it should be added so any suggestions how it should be done under which youth team and so? It says further down it is for a "FA Youth XI" against "Independent Schools XI" so it should not be added right?

P.S. Without counting the match above i got 1071 games but if you see here https://www.rsssf.org/players/duizend.html they have 1070 games so looking here again https://www.coludata.co.uk/player/jamiecureton does it seems that one of the U18 games should not be counted or what do you think?

Kind regards. Bakermannn (talk) 04:39, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

ANI notice

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Use of hash sign in summaries. Thank you. This notice is just to let you know I cited your post on my talk page in what I wrote. Please don't feel any pressure to add anything to the thread. KyleJoantalk 22:28, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Billy Meredith

Hello!

I agree with you on what you wrote and to add him with the 1043+ games.

Kind regards Bakermannn (talk) 00:46, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello

I have added him to the list so check it out if you want to fix/add anything etc.

kind regards Bakermannn (talk) 15:44, 03 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello

It was reverted because of war-time football and i have looked at pages like this one here https://bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/history/players/Player.aspx?id=61 and this https://www.mancity.com/mancitylegends/meredith-billy and they operate with total games of 394 (not 564 like RSSSF) and could be other war time football also for the other teams, maybe he should not be added then how do you see this "conflict"?

P.S. Could the problem be the same for Stanley Matthews with WW2?

kind regards Bakermannn (talk) 17:09, 03 September 2023 (UTC)

Lionel Messi

Hello.

I have been archiving the sources of several pages, but it seems that there is a problem with a certain Lionel Messi. Every time I try, it just does not work. It is the only page that reacts like this. I was wondering if you could help me figure out what is wrong.

Thanks.Barr Theo (talk) 00:30, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello.
What do you mean with "Which link"? I did not mentioned any links. I am asking you if you can archive the sources of Lionel Messi's wiki page because I can't.
Thanks. Barr Theo (talk) 17:45, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
It worked for me on several other pages as you can see in my edit history (31 October, 7 and 11 November). Messi is the only one that reacts like this. It almost as if someone hecked Messi's page in order to prevent it from ever having its sources archived. I even copy and pasted Messi's page to a draft (as you can also see on my edit history) and tried to archive it from there, but it just does not work. This is too strange.
There has to be a way. Barr Theo (talk) 18:35, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Zé Roberto

Hello!

Maybe you already know, but if you look here https://www.playmakerstats.com/player/ze-roberto/2603/career it seems that they have added the missing games for Portuguesa, they now have 132 games. So should we take away the note about oGol missing games and just use it as a ref++ now?

Kind regards, Bakermannn (talk) 04:30, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

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