User talk:Kudpung/Archive 15-30 Oct 2011

Thank you...

...for my shiny thing and your kind words. I decided to do a bit of NPP last weekend which I had never done before. I normally just watch these. What an eye-opener! A daily flood of illiterate dross, hoaxes, copyvio, advertising etc. etc.. The IEP "contributions" are just the icing on the daily cake. Did you participate in that IEP conference? I wonder how it went. I honestly can't believe the degree to which the WMF have their collective heads in the sand. How on earth could they positively encourage a program that would release literally hundreds of articles virtually simultaneously (created by students contributing under duress and without a clue of what's required) without thinking this through or even warning the projects that would have to clean up the inevitable mess. I didn't add this to the IEP talk page, but I'm pretty disappointed by the Foundation's utter disregard for the foot soldiers of Wikipedia and the degree to which they are out of touch with what it's really like to edit here, day in and day out. OK, rant over, feel better now. ;-) Best, Voceditenore (talk) 20:25, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad you confirm that an awful lot of the new pages are rubbish. People who have not done NPP are just not convinced and prefer to rely on stats for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a 'representative' sample. Our resources are now stretched to the limit, especially now that CorenBot is down. We have too many children on patrol, and too few truly active admins. Following the WMF rejection of WP:ACTRIAL in spite of its reaching a very clear consensus on a heavily subscribed RfC, I've been working very closely with the WMF these last couple of weeks to find alternative solutions to page creation and patrolling. Ironically the IEP issue was a blessing in disguise - it came to a head at the right moment and brought the message squarely home. I was involved in several talks with the WMF and the IEP organisers and it was left up to me whether I should unblock the university IP. The situation is resolved (for now) but we need to be extra vigilant. The people who run the WMF are young, keen, qualified, and highly motivated, but they do admit to some extent that they lack the hands-on, day-to-day experience of being a regular New Page patroller or admin. I'm constantly in touch with them now and I'm sure we are on the right road to improve the way new pages get created, and how they are policed. Whenever I get exasperated, I always think of calm reserve of this editor, and think, 'That's how I should be handling this'. Thanks again. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:34, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Please review these blocks

There was a bug in MediaWiki 1.18 that caused blocks made via the API to have talk page access disabled when it should have been enabled. This also affected scripts such as User:Animum/easyblock.js. Please review the following blocks to make sure that you really intended talk page access to be disabled, and reblock if necessary.

1. Effectivetruckaccidentlawyer (talk · block log · block user) by Kudpung at 2011-10-11T12:58:21Z, expires 2012-04-11T12:58:21Z: [[WP:Spam|Spamming]] links to external sites
2. EduRiver Technologies (talk · block log · block user) by Kudpung at 2011-10-11T12:27:27Z, expires infinity: {{uw-softerblock}}

If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to post at User talk:Anomie#Allowusertalk issue. Thanks! Anomie⚔ 02:07, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Blocks reset. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:59, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:SundCollLogo.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:SundCollLogo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 05:14, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

The infobox on the target article has been update buy another usuer who has uploaded a new logo. This File:SundCollLogo.jpg file can be deleted. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:23, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Boing! said Zebedee

In case you didn't spot it, BsZ is away at the moment. He told me that he may be back at the end of October. In the interval, he has not even got regular access to email due to location. HTH. - Sitush (talk) 09:40, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

OK thanks. I was getting concerned. He has family here near me in Thailand. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:42, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

You may want to call on him personally ;) - Sitush (talk) 09:49, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

It's apparently only 30 minutes from here but I don't have the address ;) --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:30, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Ditto, when BsZ is in the UK. It's a strange old world! FWIW, I was the one who stuck the wikibreak up on his page, having eventually got a response to an email querying his well-being etc. That notice was done with his agreement - he thought that if he so much as looked at the page then he'd inevitably get drawn into things that could not be completed. I'll be glad when he's back as he's one of those admins who is really prepared to get the mop dirty in the India caste article sphere. Keep well. - Sitush (talk) 10:47, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Query: Artificial Intelligence in Data Mining

HI , OH you deleted the article "Artificial Intelligence" due to some mistakes done by me.I want your suggestion what should i do now from where should i must start the article "ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IN DATA MINING" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Netra Nahar (talk • contribs) 12:51, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Netra. Yes, I'm sorry but that's what we have to do with articles that are made up by copying content from other sources. You actually caused us all quite a headache here in the USA, England, and Thailand ;) Even one of your campus Ambassadors went to you college looking for you to warn what is going to happen. The problem is that what you are writing duplicates the information that is already in another Wikipedia article. I suggest you find a new topic to write about, and if you do, you must remember not to copy anything from anywhere else. Please read the messages that we have left on your talk page very carefully . Please also read how to use talk pages and sign your messages. Thank you, and good luck. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:04, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Help Please

Hello Kudpung,

I recently created a new page, Medway High School Theatre, that was removed because it was said to contain copyrighted wob content material. The website shown in reference to that copyrighted material, (Copy of web content at http://www.science24.org/show/Medway_High_School_%28Massachusetts%29) was actually taken directly from a wikipedia page that has since been edited, Medway High School. Since the web content was actually pulled directly from a wikipedia page, therefore the wikipedia page was the original source of this information, can this new page be allowed? It will not be a duplicate of the Medway High School page, because that page has since been edited and will continue to be edited to more closely reflect major facts about the school. Please advise. Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12musical34 (talk • contribs) 15:21, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

HI. Please sign your posts. We are very strict about copying even one sentence from another source. Please feel free to recreate the article, bearing in mind that it will one again come under very close scrutiny. Be absolutely sure to read WP:NOTABILITY, WP:ORG, and WP:COI before you start, because not only was the article copied from another source, it also was unable to assert notabilty for the the theatre. Unless it has made national headlines several times in the established press, it is most unlikely that this theatre will be proven to be important enough for inclusion in the encylopedia. Good luck! --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:40, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

A beer for you

Thankyou for participating in my request for adminship. Now I've got lots of extra buttons to try and avoid pressing by mistake... Redrose64 (talk) 15:30, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

FYI

See User talk:Netra Nahar#Important – Please read. This is going to need rev-del too. I let Ruud Koot who did the rev-dels in Artificial Intelligence in Data Mining know [1]. Triple sigh... Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:29, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

I spent five hours checking IEP articles for copyvios again esterday, and of course not all of them proved positive, but it has to be done. However, my patience is now wearing thin, and I want to get back to my usual tasks. There was a dialogue with Netra above but s/he does not seem to have understood. I have lived and worked in India a few times and I'm very familiar how communication works: You and I are both have a background in linguistics - we know what the problems are. I appear to be the only non-Indian fluent speaker of Indian English around here and I've done my best even on a long calls with the WM and the Indian programme consultant a week ago. A major problem is that their 40 campus ambassadors don't know the rules either, and don't appear to watch their talk pages. I'm only a volunteer - there's nothing more I can do by remote control to help these people understand not only the very basics of editing the encyclopedia, but also policies that are not considered important in Asian culture. All I've got now are are buttons for deleting and blocking.... --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:31, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

BTW: My most humble apologies for the gender error. No, it wasn't obvious, but in hindsight... --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:46, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

No need for an apology. ;-) The name came from a book by Rodolfo Celletti but I think in the back of my mind was the idea that not making my gender obvious might be a good idea. Interestingly, this guy, who was mightily peeved that both his autobiography and an article about his ground-breaking self-published book got deleted at AfD, accused me of being a "feminized man" and a traitor to my alleged sex. Yikes! Voceditenore (talk) 14:37, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

RE: Page protection

The simple answer, I don't like twinkle. It is extremely overused for every action that people can do with their own hands. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 04:51, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

I meant that this would be an additional automated operation when we admins effect a page protection. It would relieve you of the work... --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:58, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

It is actually a part of the twinkle kit. But it has a bug, when someone adds a pp-semi tag, twinkle removes the {{pp-move-indef}} tag, so it is not really helpful. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 05:04, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Administrator?

Hi Kudpung! I was recently doing some WP:NACs on AfD and thought that I might be ready to go for a RfA, with conquerable experience globally, however I might need some more experience locally, I have been quite active on many projects and areas, varying from vandal fighting to article improvements. I wanted to get your recommendations that how can I be ready for the mop. Thanks or your consideration. :) ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ ^{Talk Email} 06:24, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

OK, I'll look into it. May take me an hour or two though. In the meantime, you may wish to read my page at WP:Advice for RfA candidates if you have not already done so. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:29, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

I stumbled upon this request while looking at another post. I have run across some of Vibhijain's AfD's and don't think he's ready for adminship. Every AfD Vib has initiated that I have seen fails to cite a single WP policy or guideline. Vib, why are you in such a rush for adminship? You've only been on WP for 6 months from what I've seen. Being an administrator means gaining significant trust from the Wikipedia community and not performing near-admin duties over a relatively short period of time. OlYeller^Talktome 02:15, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I've dealt with this already. Vibhijain is quite responsible for his age, and by patrolling new pages he will learn more about Wikipedia policy. He needs to get it right of course, but he's not the worst of our NPPers, and I'm watching what he's doing - you can help too by putting him right when he gets it wrong. At the moment, his age is very much against any real chance of becoming an admin, but I'm sure he will be one someday :) --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:31, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree. I looked through several of his edits and keep wondering if the picture on the his userpage is old or not indicative of his age. He's certainly picking things up very quickly. I can definitely see him becoming an admin some day. OlYeller^Talktome 17:58, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Page deleted

Please see that the page Rock on Radio has been deleted.I didn't delete it.It was deleted by another user.Dipankan001 (talk) 14:10, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it's now been deleted. I know you didn't delete it, because you're not an admin. I think oi would be a good idea if you check out WP:NPP and WP:CSD before you tag any more pages. If you need any help don't hesitate to let me know :) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:15, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Request

Hello Sir, I am extremely sorry for the copvios in my edits,now i restarted the work and I want you to go through it if you have time.I wrote the stuff on "Gray Box Testing" in my sandbox.Netra Nahar (talk · contribs) Netra Nahar 16:10, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

CopyVio and other

Not closed, but very long thread

Hello sir, There have been no Copyright Violations done by my class(ie the students I am responsible for). I have given them a law suit scare and that seemed to do the trick. The other CAs do not agree with my methods of scaring instead of teaching. I check their articles regularly and look out for any copyvios, and other CAs are doing the same, but since there are more than a 100 articles which every CA has to go through he might miss some of them which have been picked up by the western editors. We have received no help from the online ambassadors. I have put up the template you designed for the IEP on the article's atalk pages. The reason that you are noticing copy vios on tens of articles instead of all the 1000 of them is because CAs have been doing their job. But the sheer number of the articles prevent us from 100% accuracy of detecting copy vios. We all are working on wikipedia improvement. And the western editors seem to have a completely different level/standard on the quality of articles.I would say an article a bit lower in quality would be better than a stub level article since it provides information even though not in perfect grammar and english but atleast in a language which can be understood by the people using the free encyclopedia. Remember WMF wanted this to happen in India, so they must have or should have expected a difference in the english quality since it is not the first language of people here in India compared to the Education program in US. I hope you understand this. We all are working for a common goal ie free knowledge, so can you please be a bit more lenient and patient and all issues will be resolved. I recognize you contribution to the IEP and all the help you have provided us, I just ask you to be a bit more lenient and understand the complication we are going through. Thank you. Feel Free to leave me a message. Mihir.khatwani (talk) 19:16, 16 October 2011 (UTC) Hi Mihir. You do not need to call me 'Sir', here on Wikipedia we are all equal, 'Kudpung' will do just fine :) I know that we are all working towards a common goal, and we all want to contribute to the Wikipedia to make it a wonderful knowledge base, however, there are some things we must always bear in mind. Wikipedia is probably the biggest repository of knowledge online, and it is the fifth biggest web site in the world, and it is free for every one to use. Apart from just a few people in the office in the USA, everyone here is a volunteer just like you, and we work on Wikipedia in our spare time. It cots a lot of money to maintain the servers and systems that keep the encyclopedia up and running, in fact millions of dollars every year, and that money comes from donations from all kinds of people, sometimes just a couple of dollars from people like you and me, sometimes millions of dollars from some very big organisations. They give this money because they believe in what we are doing, and they want to see a quality product. Most of that money is given by the people who read the encyclopedia. Now imagine what would happen if the the level of quality goes down: people who read it might stop trusting the information the encyclopedia contains, and they would stop reading it, and they would stop donating money to it. Then the other problem: articles are written and edited by the volunteers who also strive for quality to protect the good name of the Wikipedia, and if they think we are going to allow a drop in quality or be lenient to copyright violations, they will stop contributing their efforts. In the end it would all lead to a collapse of this project that has been going on now for ten years. The biggest problem right now is that the western editors just do not have the capacity to spend time checking and cleaning up the the sheer number of the articles articles that come from the IEP. That has to be the job of those who are in charge of the IEP, and already dedicating much of their time to check the articles. The WMF wanted this project to happen in India, but I think they forgot to realise that it would possibly cause a big drop in the quality of the articles. The Indian ambassadors and mentors must organise their workflow without being under pressure of deadlines (there are no deadlines on Wikipedia) and use some of the tools we use for checking articles, and most importantly, they must make a huge effort to ensure that all the Indian editors understand the rules and policies that protect the Wikipedia from copyright violations and unwanted articles. At the moment, the problem is concentrated only in Pune, but India is the second most populous country in the world, and when the programme extends to other big cities such as Mumbai, Delhi, Ahmedabad, Hyderabad, and Kolkata, you can imaging what might happen. I have worked hard in my free time these last two weeks to help the IEP along, and negociate with the WMF and the ambassadors to help the organisers understand the extent of the problems, but at the end of the day, everyone, wherever they come from, must maintain the high standards that are essential for Wikipedia, and the organisers, ambassadors and editors in India must accept the responsibility for the articles they are producing. Best regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:31, 17 October 2011 (UTC) (talk page stalker) Mihir, it is not true that there have been no copyvios by students you are responsible for. It took only five minutes for me to find a copyright violation by Sachinsuroshe, who is in Computer Organization and Advanced Microprocessing. (Pasting material into a sandbox is still a violation.) I do not have the time right now to look through the rest of the contributions of that class, but I am confident that this is not the only one. Danger (talk) 01:55, 17 October 2011 (UTC) For what it's worth Mihir, this is far from an isolated incident. In the first course I checked, I've nominated the first two articles for copyright violations. OlYellerTalktome 02:32, 17 October 2011 (UTC) Take a look at Talk:Financial inclusion for what I ran across; this is in no way a personal thing. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 06:20, 17 October 2011 (UTC) A chunk of text like that in near perfect English smacks of blatant copyvio - beware however of sites that mirror WP content. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:32, 17 October 2011 (UTC) Hi Mihir. We all understand the complications you're going through. As I said here, an unacceptable burden has been placed on the CAs to make this poorly designed program work. We can be lenient when it comes to writing style, poor English, etc. These issues can be fixed gradually through copyediting, although I have to say that in some cases the English so poor (often resulting from copying text verbatim and then attempting to change individual words or verb tenses, or removing one or two phrases from the sequence) that the text is incomprehensible. Only editors who are subject specialists can copyedit such articles, thus greatly reducing the pool of editors who can make the repairs. Here's an example. The student had had multiple copyvio problems before and asked me to look at the new draft. I could confirm that blatant copyvio doesn't seem to be there anymore, but I simply cannot understand the content enough to fix the English or even comment on its accuracy because the subject is completely out of my area. However we cannot be lenient on copyright violation, ever. The scale of the problem is now so large that it's now going to take literally months (and many editors) to find and remove it from articles edited by IEP students. The silver lining to this cloud is that we'll probably find and get rid of a lot of other copy vio that didn't come from IEP students. Hardwired control is one example I found today. The whole article is basically copied from Computer architecture and organization by John Patrick Hayes, and has been like this since at least 2008. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 08:24, 17 October 2011 (UTC) It does not seem to stop. I take a break from what I'm doing to have a few minutes stab at NPP and the very first page on this list is Advanced jigs and fixtures by User:Swapnil.dahake, a copyvio of the book Audel Automated Machines and Toolmaking. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:10, 17 October 2011 (UTC) Look on the bright side. At least the students have made it easy for us, since we can basically assume that any coherent text is a copyvio waiting to be found. (Although I've found ones that were "translated" into poor English as well.) Danger (talk) 10:22, 17 October 2011 (UTC) That's very true of course. I know I'm not indispensable on Wikipedia, but I'm might be among the most experienced page patrollers we've got, and what worries me is are the the ones that aren't being caught when I'm doing something else. There are a few old hands helping out on NPP these last few days, but they won't stick at it forever. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:29, 17 October 2011 (UTC) I've just tagged Heat treatment processes in manufacturing by User:Mahale deepak, a recreation of his article deleted on 3 October. as a duplicating an existing topic. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:42, 17 October 2011 (UTC) Hey guys, firstly let me just state that all of you are just too awesome. I love the passion you have for protecting Wikipedia. I really would love to meet such passionate people in my life who spend their time toiling away just protecting what they believe in to this great extent. Understand however, that none of the Campus Ambassadors as asking you to be lenient when it comes to article quality. As for Kudpung กุดผึ้ง, I am glad you understand the burden we are facing. When we ask for leniency, it is in the context of say if you find that an article is of bad quality, instead of marking it up for speedy deletion right away, why not move it into the sandbox of that user and asking him to edit it there. In relation to copyright violations, I am not asking for any leniency whatsoever. Just that the message conveyed to the students can be of constructive criticism instead of just posting that you have been blocked for copyvios. See the whole point is none of these students are not involved in Wikipedia:Vandalism. This program though might look like a failure has the potential to do great. I respect that you do not agree with the deadlines, but certain things must be incorporated to make this program work in these schools and colleges. AS of now, this deadline system is the best method we can think of. We are open to suggestions rather than just criticisms. If you would like to pitch in you ideas, do help us and do so. It would go a long way. All we are stating, is let the deadlines now pass, let the dust settle after the storm and understand the mistakes that occurred from the first phase of this program and correct them. That is the whole concept of the pilot project. If this program had no problems whatsoever, we would roll it out directly to all major cities, and not just be restricted to Pune. The burden of the CA's are immense. We are volunteers, most of us either undergrads or postgrads. Most of them now have their exams going on, hence you might see a lot of them being non-active. I myself shall become non-active for a few weeks for my exams. But understand we are doing our best to handle this problem, unfortunately it is taking us some time. That is where we ask for leniency that we let us tackle the problem by helping us and ironing out the kinks of the program instead of just losing hope in the program. It would be lovely if you could give us a few tools or maybe bots or in general teach us how you find copyvios so that our manual workload is lessened. And I disagree with you when it comes to the context as to degradation of quality in the Indian context. If WMF rolled out this program in India, I'm pretty sure they had confidence on the Indian editorial ship. Please assume good faith when I tell you this but certain jives and digs at the Indian education system and our level of competence seems very much out of place and in certain cases, your just being a Bully. I am not going to go into the context of whether Indian students can contribute quality articles to Wikipedia or not, as there are already a lot of at least decent articles from this program. I believe you are focusing too much on the negatives and not enough on the positives. WMF has faith on the program so all we are asking you is to keep that faith. Why focus only on the negatives, why not come together in collaboration and help this program evolve. I'm sorry to say, I've not seen comment from most of the Western editors which say, instead of, "Look, another copyvio", say "Hey, look how great the article of this student is." A nice positive lookout is necessary in these dark times. Again I really appreciate the love you have for Wikipedia and the invaluable time and effort you are putting to iron out the problems from this program. But please don't just think in one direction, take the positives also. It feels nice when we the CA's get a positive message from any editor, for example look at this user's talk page. This sort of positive re-encouragement not only inspires the user to do better work, but it inspires others to work harder and do much better. However, if you only focus on the negatives, you shall miss out on such heart-warming positives. Regards, Your friendly neighbourhood Campus Ambassador --Debastein1 (talk) 12:24, 17 October 2011 (UTC) "Lets make this world a better and more informative place"" I don't think it is quite fair to accuse us of bullying and jiving. The en.Wiki may have millions of 'editors', but the number of volunteers who are truly dedicated to Wikipedia is actually quite small, especially when it comes to those who not only contribute their own articles, but who also spend huge amounts of time on maintenance tasks. The problem is that we are already overstretched with these tasks, and at the best of times we have around 7 to 10 people to check over 1,000 new pages that arrive here every day of the week. As you probably know, some of us are collaborating closely with the WMF to develop a new user interface for new users to make it easier for them to edit and get it right. At the same time, we are also working hard on new systems to improve our handling of those new pages. However, these developments do not happen overnight and many members of the community feel that the IEP is either ill timed, or ill prepared, and this means that we simply do not have the resources to be as helpful as you would like us to be. Nevertheless, we are doing our best, and some of that 'best' is not only locating the IEP pages that need attention, but also to help the WMF understand that this is a real problem. If you take a close look at the comments above in this thread (and the many discussions that I have already archived), you will see that rather than criticising the individual students or poor quality, we are having to provide some evidence that the project needs more understanding of the isues associated with it. The problem is not one of quality, it is one of insufficient understanding of the core policy of copyvio, and seeing students simply recreating the same articles that have already been deleted, or not looking to see if an article on that topic already exists. We are according the same degree of control over the IEP articles as we do to any other, and certainly without any bad faith. However, we have had the rules and policies of Wikipedia drummed into us - especially those of us who have gone through the very difficult and sometimes unpleasant process to become administrators. Without the volunteers and admins who control and process new pages, there would be no Wikipedia, no WMF, and no IEP, and it is fair to expect that when new projects of this magnitude are launched, some plans should have been made for the inevitable cleaning up. I believe the WMF is now taking this very seriously, and I have offered any help I can, but my personal help is not on cleaning up the individual IEP pages - my main work as an volunteer here is to contribute my own articles, and help develop new aids for newcomers and give them a boost. One tool that is indispensable for campus ambassadors is the duplication detector, and there are many other tricks of the trade for identifying problem articles, but we have not been asked to train the CAs, and we believed they would have already received adequate instruction before the project began. I am open to any suggestions as to how I can be of personal help in this respect and how I can offer my own experience of Wikipedia, and of working in education in Asia for for almost 13 years now. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:35, 17 October 2011 (UTC) Hey Kudpung, I really love the work you are doing,I truly appreciate. I mean we are all volunteers even you but the amount of passion you have is extraordinary. I mentioned bullying because certain users made very simple comments that the problem lies with the educations system and all to which I took offense. It seemed very much like a personal attack. With regard to WMF, I am a very small player in this so I cannot comment on whatever you've told me, its just IEP is a program I truly believe in and I know that in the long term it will help towards a great aspect. As per training of CA's, see we have undergone training. However, we are also Wikipedians. Even my primary concern is to write and edit articles. In all fairness most of us are fairly new to Wikipedia, and even though we know most of the basics, certain tricks of the trade will take us some time to harness such as using different tools. Understand, my background is from Economics, hence am not a technical person that I can design bots and set them to work, I still try to emulate as best as I can. You don't have to give us a training session as such, just teach us a few tricks of the trade. Like you said, there are about 7-8 of you who are checking over 1000 articles. There are about 30 of us, unfortunately, we are not that well versed with all these tools and tricks that admins know, only few of us are. Hence, anything for example you teach me, or provide me a tool as such, I shall relate to all the other CA's so that we can do this more efficiently and do this together. My whole point is let us come together. It should be a learning process. As I mentioned previously also, I am your eyes and ears on the ground level. I can directly reach these students, like all other CA's. So we need you to be our online support. You are an avid Wikipedia for 13 years, I am for about a month or so. No amount of training can give me the level of experience that you have attained. Hence, I asked you to teach me, so that even I may learn something new and teach others and help solve this problem. Is that not what Wikipedia is all about?? P.S. Instead of just telling me the name of tools like the duplication detector, can you not also provide me the link, will make my work easier my loads. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Debastein1 (talk • contribs) 14:22, 17 October 2011 (UTC) Regards, Your friendly neighbourhood Campus Ambassador --Debastein1 (talk) 14:10, 17 October 2011 (UTC) "Lets make this world a better and more informative place" Please read my post again. I have not been a Wikipedian for 13 years. Neither am I a technician, in fact I know nothing about bots - my background is in education and socio-linguistics. I don't think it is possible for me (or any of us here) to coach each one of the CAs individually, and again, as you say, you are 30 CAs, and we have only around 7 page patrollers on duty at any one time to check over 1,000 new pages that arrive day and night 7/7, and now including the pages from the IEP that are not always easy to detect - most of our patrollers are very inexperienced. As you also said, the WMF rolled this project out without consulting the community (at least I was not aware of it) and warning about what to expect, and as yet we don't even have any official feedback from them that anything is being done. I'm beginning to feel that I am being put under pressure here, which as a volunteer I'm not really willing to accept; I have made some suggestions to the WMF as to what can be done, but they have their own way of doing things and the decisions rest with them. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:43, 17 October 2011 (UTC) I'll say this, as one of the very few truly experienced patrollers; most patrollers are not particularly good, and copyvios in particular can take considerable skill to pick out. With this group, it's made somewhat easier by the fact that most of them show obvious signs of being second-language speakers, so English that looks a little too good gets my attention, but it's still not easy. I've been working on another major issue for the last couple of weeks, but I intend to get back into NPP once that's cleared out; I have a list of the students so I know who I'm looking for, but I can tell you most patrollers will not, and with a few exceptions most won't know to carefully check them over. The Foundation really needs to get themselves together; I'm willing to help out (I'm not involved in the Ambassador program, but I think I can be of some use), but I too am only a volunteer. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 19:27, 17 October 2011 (UTC) How to detect copyright problems; a few thoughts on the approach to correcting the issue Hi. As "Maggie Dennis", I'm a contractor for the Wikimedia Foundation. One of my jobs is to help when issues rise between the WMF and its contractors and volunteers. As a volunteer, I have for several years now put most of my time into cleaning up copyright problems and counseling contributors on how to avoid them. As you can see, this situation kind of bridges my roles. :) I debated which account should speak here, but I decided that this is primarily my perspective as Moonriddengirl. I'm here in that capacity. In terms of how "regular" volunteers of Wikipedia (by which I mean only those who are not involved in the IEP in one way or another) handle this, I'm afraid we run into practical time concerns. Mentorship is fabulous, but it does require time. The culture on English Wikipedia is that typically new page patrollers will flag problems they find in articles so that these problems can be repaired. The template messages that the community has created over the years are intended to explain to newcomers what the problems mean and how they can be fixed. I believe there is some talk underway about how to make the process less intimidating for newcomers, but it'll probably be a while before anything is implemented there. However, we're trying! I created and several contributors have refined Template:Uw-copyright-new, which is a brief explanation of copyright policies that can be left for students, whether IEP or otherwise. (Actually, it can be left for anybody, but I created it with students in mind.) Prior to creating the template, I have left similar notes to several students already. I think it's a good idea to use this template with students in the IEP on the first instance of copying. In terms of bots, unfortunately, we no longer have any copyright bots. WMF is working on this, but until something returns, we are limited to manual checks. Duplication detector is a good tool, but it has limitations. You can find it here. It is only usable when you know the source, to see how extensive copying might be. It will not detect all "close paraphrasing", which requires a manual comparison. It is also a little over sensitive at this point. I usually adjust the "minimum number of words" to 4. Otherwise, the only thing we can do is look for phrases that seem particularly striking and put them in a search engine like Google and see if we can get any matches. Wikipedia:Plagiarism#How to find plagiarism outlines the basic approach. One of the free plagiarism detectors I use is [2], but it has some challenges for Wikipedia work. First, it trips on footnotes...it doesn't exclude those from its checks. So you have to take them out of the material you paste in the window. Second, it does not exclude Wikipedia mirrors (that may be using older content) or even Wikipedia itself. :) Third, like the duplication detector, it can't find all "close paraphrasing" issues. Fourth, it does not check Google books. Kudpung, I'm sorry if you're feeling frustrated by all this. Putting on my liaison hat temporarily, I know that the Wikimedia Foundation appreciates all you've done to help highlight the issues, so that they (and we, the community) can work to find solutions. WMF can't work quite as quickly as Wikipedia itself does, but they are pursuing this with all speed. There is, for example, a conference set up for it tomorrow. You can also read some conversation at meta:Talk:Wikimedia Foundation - India Programs/Education Program. Debastein1, I'm sorry if you've felt attacked by people linking the problem to the education system. :( I don't think this is meant to offend. Copyright problems can and do come from all over the world. We do see higher incidences of them in some areas, though, and I know that in a government study now about 10 years old, public familiarity with copyright laws in India were found to be low. I know that the government has taken great strides to counter that, but it can take considerable time to effect culture-wide change, and college age students from many countries face difficulties. I know that in the United States younger students are usually rewarded for memorizing what their teachers tell them are facts. In a way, they are trained to parrot others. As they get older, they are expected to transition away from this, but they aren't always properly trained to do that. I have had many a frustrating session with college students who seem completely baffled by the whole idea of "paraphrasing". On Wikipedia, this is particularly complicated because contributors are warned that they must also avoid original research. This is a tough combination for some. :) In other words, those who are suggesting that India may be more prone to copyright problems than some other areas are not necessarily wrong, and they are not necessarily intending to attack India. I suspect that they are simply trying to grasp the parameters of the problem so we can work out how to repair it. It may be worth exploring if there is a specific cultural element, as this can help us tailor our approach. Kupung, I am sorry for occupying so much of your page. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 18:29, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Good call & Protection generally

Good call regarding the Xavier College article. You were unusually prescient when we spoke about that a couple of months ago.

I'm starting to think that it might be worthwhile exploring our options with school articles a little bit more. School articles are frequent targets of vandalism, mainly from idiotic teenagers. It is almost never the case that I look over my watchlist and find that there hasn't been a school article vandalised. Exacerbating the issue is the relative lack of editors active on school articles relative to other vandalism-prone areas of wikipedia (i.e., music, politics or geography).

Where it isn't vandalism, it's an issue of WP:NPOV and particularly WP:COI (e.g., Craigmore Christian School, where there have been a couple of little editing back-and-forths with the principal of the school.

Maybe, then, this is the opportunity to think a little bit more about my stance on protection which is that all school articles should be semi-protected indefinitely. At the very least, I think that there should be looser criteria for protecting school articles against other articles. What are your thoughts before I waste time thinking about it any further? ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 05:57, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think we could ever get a special protection policy for schools enacted. I'm generally fairly quick to protect school pages as you know, but we need more watchers, and perhaps when non-admins find cases of repetitive vandalism they should report it at WT:WPSCH which is one of my priority watches. CT Cooper watches that page carefully too. I really should have all school pages on my watchlist but I already have about 8,000 pages there. However, there is also a tool at Wikiproject Watchlist - WikiProject Schools but it sometimes reports a Python error (note also that the PopUp API does not work on this). For the duration of protection, I usually take the time period between spates of disruption into consideration. If for example there was nothing for a couple of months, I may only protect for a couple of weeks until the vandals have gone away. if one vandal makes seriously bad edits more than three times in a week (not in a day), I block. Bad cases of vandalism don't need to go through incremental warnings, and if it's the school IP that gets blocked for a short while, it's a lesson to all. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:14, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I have ~1,000, or thereabouts, Australian schools on my watchlist... But I have a life outside of wikipedia (wife, baby-girl-on-the-way, 27 kids in my class, co-workers, principal, xbox, a half-read library, etc.), and I can't commit to checking it as often as it really needs to be checked. Going so far as the schools in other countries is beyond me at the moment.

I've vaguely suggested to schools that they keep an eye on their wikipedia articles, but I'm reluctant to go further (because I know that a lot of schools would probably not have the nous to ignore the temptation to tinker around the POV boundary (I'm not even willing to trust myself, there: I didn't do much more than anti-vandalism edits on the school at which I worked until quite a while had passed after I had left and I still haven't finished work on the articles for the region office where I did most of my work).

I think we need to make a more concerted effort to identify and block school IP's when they vandalise. But the discretion that you apply isn't consistent with other admins. I'm wary to go to you for each protection or block request if it means that you'll be acting outside of the bounds of policy.

I don't know how to encourage more people to watch school articles. I think that the editors who are likely to be able to help already have their hands full with other articles. I think asking them to pay more attention to school articles won't have much real effect anyway, as it'll be stating what (the able) people are already doing. But, yeah... Any ideas? ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 09:04, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

If you use the tool I linked to, it should only take a moment to scan down the list to recognise any Oz schools. Don't worry about my level of discretion - I actually hesitate a lot before blocking. In fact I've never yet exercised one single school block. I'm very gentle too with kids who have just not understood that Wikipedia is not FaceBook. When I mean bad cases, I man really bad cases, such as obscene personal attacks against teachers and other students,and socking to do it again, etc. Like you, I'm a teacher, and very sensitive to these issues. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:14, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Disruption

Hello,

There's a rather petulant dynamic IP spamming the living daylights out of my talkpage. If you are currently online, some administrative intervention would be appreciated; it is very late (early?) where I am, and I'd like to get some sleep without having my talk torn to shreds whilst I slumber. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 07:40, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I think they are doing it in misguided good faith. I've left a message on their tp. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:48, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

No no no. I'm not talking about the Holodomor mediation at all. See here. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 07:49, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh sugar! Using a different IP each time. I'll get on to it and block them but it will take a long time. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:53, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Much appreciated. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 07:55, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I've also semi-protected your tp for 12 hours.

(talk page stalker) 12 looong hours ;) Favonian (talk) 08:35, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Hmm... Thanks. I thought I had proteced it for 12 hours, but apparently only the presets in the dropdown work - or is there something I'm not sure about? --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:41, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm always tempted to blame the new version of the software, but I'm afraid this was just a slip of the mouse/track point/touch pad. Favonian (talk) 08:45, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I entered a free value that is not on the dropdown. I think this is the first time I have done that, and apparently it didn't work. I had entered : 12 hours, my fault I guess, I should have checked the protect log afterwards. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:49, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi, thank you for your suggestion regarding The_Origins_of_Political_Order. I did not think anyone would read it for quite some time. Could you please suggest how to meet appropriate standards? It was only meant as a stub with just the reference to the book itself. I added ISBN and then saw that you kindly read and suggested that it be improved somehow. I just do not know how, and was hoping someone else would. The book merits the attention. DanielDemaret (talk) 11:43, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I think the book qualifies to be included judging numbers sold. This week it ranks 4,956 on Amazon, which should mean it sells a minimum of 15,000 copies per week, which is ok for a pretty academic subject by a professor. I know I am a lousy editor. I am more from the science/engineer/cyberworld part of the world, rather than the arts. That is what I love about having 3,000,000 other editors that can help me out here :) DanielDemaret (talk) 11:53, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I read the Wikipedia:Notability (books) that newpaper articles about the book might be enough so I added a few external references to some reviews, hoping that this would be enough. Is it? By the way, was the delete-sign added by a bot? It hit while I was editing the first draft, and few things are as fast as a bot. DanielDemaret (talk) 12:46, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Daniel, I am as fast as a bot :) but only sometimes. It was nevertheless a pre-prepared message - what we call a 'template'. We generally advise our new page patrollers to wait a while before 'tagging' articles, but sometime I instinctively feel that if I can catch the article creators while they are still on line, they will come back to me with a nice message like yours and ask for my help. Many creators just leave a short stub and go away never to return. The main issue facing your article is one of notability. We have some pretty strict policies about inclusion, and if you've read WP:NBOOK, you'll see that unless the book has received some true accolades (standard reviews don't count - my own books get reviewed for jacket notes and the publishers lists, but they haven't won a Booker or a Pulitzer!) The notice on your article gives you seven days to find sources that fully assert notability, but I'm afraid that if there aren't any, the article will be procedurally deleted. On the other hand, if the author were to be notable and have a biography in Wikipedia, then there could be a short note about the book in that article. Don't hesitate to ask me again for any advice. regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:50, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I have no idea how to know whether it is notable or not, but it sure beats any of his previous books :) And almost all other books that I read when I studied Politics back in the stone ages :) Which for me is about 35 years ago. If it gets deleted, so be it. DanielDemaret (talk) 14:14, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I've removed the PROD notice, per the second point of Wikipedia:Proposed deletion. This doesn't preclude the article being nominated at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, however. Daniel, you do need to do some further work to demonstrate that the book is notable. The more independent reliable sources you can add, the better. You should also consider changing your "external links" into inline citations; see WP:INCITE for how to do this. The article at present appears to be mostly a synopsis of the book's contents; this is not the best way to write such an article. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 13:55, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

That is very kind of you, Demiurge. What is the best way to write it? DanielDemaret (talk) 14:08, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

In terms of the content and structure of the article, have a look at the featured-class article The Slave Community, which is also about a non-fiction book in the field of history (and sociology and things). As you can see, only around a third of the article discusses what's actually in the book; and even that is backed up throughout by inline citations to reliable third party sources. The quickest way to work towards something like this, is to add a "Reception" section that summarises both positive and negative commentary about the book from the various reviews.

For other things to include, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Books/Non-fiction article (which is a sub-page of the link Kudpung gave you). However, avoid taking too much notice of the "examples" on that page, as they seem to be examples of what not to do :-) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:40, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry if I didn't sound so kind ;) You'll find a lot of useful information here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Books. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:17, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

You have both been most kind and helpful. I shall read your suggestions and take the time to digest it. I just wrote down the article off the top of my head from memory over a lunch break. Making a half decent article will take me a lot longer. DanielDemaret (talk) 19:31, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

PeerReviewBot block

I unblocked PeerReviewBot - the bot will archive any peer review that is older than 14 days and has not yet received any comments. PR is really backlogged and so some requests have been taking longer than 14 days, which is what happened to yours. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 12:04, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

PS Might I suggest that the next time you block a bot you leave a message on the operator's talk page? Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 12:07, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Please have a look over this

Please have a look over this article,Case of arakcheev and khudyakov.I have placed a Nominate for deletion tag,which means,everyone has a right to join in the discussion.I think this might be a complete hoax.As a Google search mentions nothing and it I suggest it should be moved to Wikinews if this is current.Please give your opinion.Dipankan001 (talk) 12:46, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

It is certainly a strange article, in poor English, and totally unreferenced. It does not appear to be completely neutral either. I think you've done the right thing by sending it to AfD. We now just have to wait and see what happens. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:06, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Help with an article

Hi! I've been tangling with a copyright violation at Story-driven modelling and I'm trying to handle it without exacerbating the issue. The text was deleted last night per G12 then replace this morning with the copyvio still present. An interesting IP, 203.197.87.94 (talk · contribs) has now removed all of the copyright text, leaving a stub. The text is fine now but there's no indication of importance. I see two problems, one is that the copyrighted text is still found in the history and two, the notability of the subject isn't established without the copyvio text (if it ever was). Rather than mark the article for A7 or take it to AfD which might cause more problems than good, I thought you might have suggestion.

Also, I got your email. I've been reading through the related articles and essays. I'll take some time to consider the idea and I'll let you know what I think. OlYeller^Talktome 15:36, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

The page is now nothing but a title and some lonks to WP pages. Don't worry about the copyvio being in the history. I would say check the linked articles, find one that is closest to the page title and make the page redirect to it. Keep on your watch list for reverts of the redirect. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:42, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Your request to delete Bioscrypt Inc. wikipedia page

Hi,

Bioscrypt Inc. is the global market leader in biometrics. It deserves space on Wikipedia as most it is the biggest company which has commercialized biometrics for consumers. I have nothing to do with this company, but I saw another article for another player in this market called Suprema Inc. How come, they can have their page but Bioscrypt cannot? Also, the references are not company links, they are third party websites. Infact, one link is Industry Canada profile page by the Government of Canada. Bioscrypt is in top 50 fastest growing companies in Canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abhinavcambridge (talk • contribs) 16:09, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Not one single one of the 3 million articles in Wikipdia 'deserves' to be here, it's all a question of providing sources that 'prove' the subject of an article is notable. Industry Canada is simply a company listing and does not give any indication why the organisation is notable, and prnewswire.com appears to be little more than a news blog. Please check out our policies at WP:GNG (general notability guidelines, WP:ORG (inclusion criteria for companies, and WP:RS (reliables sources), and if you can meet these requirements there would be every possibility that the importance of the company will be asserted. Sources should be in established print media or audited online versions of them. If the company has received high awards for industry, especially ones conferred by governments, that would be almost conclusive --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 16:23, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

curious about tags you added to a page I created

Hello Kudpung!

I've just created a page, Jim Lanzone, and noticed that you have tagged it as needing primary sources. I've included a number of outside references to where I gathered the information. Which content in general do you feel needs extra citation? I'd be happy to gather any extra info you feel is lacking.

Thanks for your help!

Roger O. Thornhill 17:07, 17 October 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by RogerOthornhill (talk • contribs)

Hi Roger. I'm sorry if you find our tags confusing (we're working on it). Quite to the contrary: This article relies on references to primary sources or sources affiliated with the subject, rather than references from independent authors and third-party publications. Please add citations from reliable sources means that it relies almost only on primary sources - those are the sources directly owned by or closely connected to the subject. What we need are reliable independent 3rd party sources. See WP:RS for more details. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:14, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Hid Kudpung. i see... so is it just the LinkedIn links you refer to? the other references come from tech-news sites like TechCrunch, CNET and SEO Roundtable. Roger O. Thornhill 17:46, 17 October 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by RogerOthornhill (talk • contribs)

CrunchBaseis not allowed - it's not a news item . Twitter, LinkedIn, FaceBook, blogs, etc, are not allowed. Any sites that just have a company profile or listing are using material that has been submitted by the subject, their advertising agent, press agent etc. The content is not audited.

Okay, I've swapped out those references you pointed out with third-party/news sources. would love your review when you have a moment. thanks! Roger O. Thornhill 19:22, 17 October 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by RogerOthornhill (talk • contribs)

Aham (film)

Hello,
I noticed the refimprove tag you placed on the article Aham. Since this is a 1992 film, it is very difficult to find a lot of reference links. I added the IMDB link already for verifying the credibility of the article. Most of the links available for the film leads to the film or songs downloads or You-Tube links. Please advise how to improve such articles for films which are 20 years or older, when Internet was not so popular, especially in India (Kerala)? I will be updating the article with Infobox, DVD cover, plot summary, songs-list etc.
Anish Viswa 07:14, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi. It's just a 'maintenance' tag; it's not a warning of deletion, and it might just attract the attention of another editors who can find more refs for it. Happy editing! --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:19, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Autopatrolled

Sorry I have no idea. I am not putting a {{sub}} on them because in most cases there is not a lot more info to be had. One though though, does the algorithm look for <ref></ref> pairs (because I am using the {{sfn}})? -- PBS (talk) 07:16, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Phil. I don't think so. At present , I believe we have no filters that react to page content other than 'possible recreation' or 'possible cut&paste' creation. I'm not familiar with the tpl you are using - l looked at it and I didn't really understand what it's for. Try not using it when you next create a page and see if the new page is still listed at special:new pages. If you concur that it might be a bug, let me know because although I have no tech knowledge, I'm working closely with the people who are looking into the performance of our page patrolling systems. Cheers, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:25, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

OK will do. But I have finished creating pages for the moment. I am now filling out ones that already exist. -- PBS (talk) 07:33, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

FYI as promised a page just created with ref tags instead of {{sfn}} see Jose Maria de la Cueva, 14th Duke of Albuquerque I am in the process of creating another (this one was a link from that page) called Samuel Ford Whittingham on which I will use {{sfn}}-- PBS (talk) 12:52, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

From the patrol log: (del/undel) 19:48, 21 October 2011 Philip Baird Shearer (talk | contribs | block) marked Jose Maria de la Cueva, 14th Duke of Albuquerque patrolled (automatic) ‎ but it's listed in special:new pages. Have you checked your user rights log? Admins should be automatically autopatrolled.When I get a moment I think I'll find a reason to create a page and see what happens, but I've never known any of my creations to be in the new pages list. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:00, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

When I look at the log pages it does not return anything for pages created -- which can not be right -- how do I check my user rights log? -- PBS (talk) 12:16, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I see now whats happened. This is from your rights log:

(del/undel) 05:34, 7 June 2006 Taxman (talk | contribs | block) changed rights for User:Philip Baird Shearer from (none) to (none) ‎ (+sysop)

As an admin, you can give yourself the rights back. You should have a Twinkle tab 'User', see user rights. If you get stuck, I'll do it for you. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:25, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

If yo look at my user rights, you'll see the difference. You can change your own user rights here. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:39, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

I have never used Twinkle. I looked at your user rights and mine. I see that your has a much longer chain but I do not understand where in that process you gained other rights that the default admin group does not cover. I looked under Special:UserRights at yours and mine and I could not tell the difference. So I would appreciate it it you would do what ever it is that you think my account needs. Thanking you in anticipation PBS (talk) 06:29, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Check your user rights now ;) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:38, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks and sorry for the inconvenience I caused you. -- PBS (talk) 06:43, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

No inconvenience at all Phil. Happy to have been of assistance. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:46, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Sachin ghode

I am as keen as you on policing the Pune projects stuff but I feel you have been a bit hard on Sachin ghode (talk · contribs). Knuckle joint (mechanical) seems to me a totally valid stub and mechanical joint is even in User:Skysmith/Missing topics about Mechanics. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 10:30, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

You may well be right, but there is absolutely no intention to be hard on anyone. I've been concentrating of the new arrival live feed in hope of catching the articles rather than stopping to do an in-depth research on each one and piecing it together. Andy Dingley is our specialist on mechanical engineering. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:19, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Moreton Hall

Dear Kudpung - you're fast! You're perfectly entitled to raise a conflict of interest - I am the current Headmaster of Moreton Hall. However, I'm not marketing the school as such, I'm merely contributing a factual account of the school's identity and history. Given the existence of other school pages on Wikipedia I'd like to contend that I'm simply redressing an inequity: Moreton Hall Preparatory School exists and has as much of a right to a mention. Clearly this is my first foray so I apologise for any unwitting blunders, but hope the article can stand for now, giving me a chance to fill a small gap oin the encyclopedia. Thank you Simon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.134.126.77 (talk) 11:22, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Hello Simon,I am fast but only sometimes, and as a former fellow school administrator,and coordinator of the Wikipedia schools project, I fully sympathise. We generally advise our new page patrollers to wait a while before 'tagging' articles, but sometime I instinctively feel that if I can catch the article creators while they are still on line, they will come back to me with a nice message like yours and ask for my help. Many creators of school articles just leave a short stub and go away never to return. The main issue facing your article is one of notability. We have some pretty strict policies about inclusion, and if you've read WP:WPSCH/AG you'll see that primary schools are not generally considered notable for inclusion. Exceptions would be if they are notable for some distinguishing feature that has received high accolades, or wide coverage in the media. We have thousands of primary school articles because with over 1,000 new encyclopedia articles arriving every day, some get missed. We're working slowly through the backlog of non notable schools, but the fact remains that your article may not meet our criteria for inclusion, and is explained in WP:OTHERSTUFF. Don't hesitate to ask for further explanations. Regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:40, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Uh oh, another contested proposed deletion? :-) I wonder if the building itself, or the estate, might be notable [3] - such an article would need to include some mention of its current and historical use anyway... Compare with Moreton Hall (Warwickshire), which seems to be notable mainly for having caught fire. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:04, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Re Moreton Hall Preparatory School, I had a snoop around. The school itself wouldn't pass WP:WPSCH/AG, but the building it's in is a Grade II listed building. Perhaps, I'll write an article about the building in which case a very brief mention of what it's used for now could be in order. But a stand alone article on the school, no. Voceditenore (talk) 13:09, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

That's exactly what I would have done if time permitted - but check it out carefully, because if memory serves me right, there is another school which I think is an independent high school probably called Moreton Hall School, and it might be the school that is hosted in the Gll building at Moreton Hall. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:20, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

The secondary school is in Warwickshire; the preparatory school (the one Simon raised) is in Suffolk. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 14:14, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

I've checked it out, this one is in Suffolk and designed by Robert Adam, there's quite a lot of coverage of it, especially under its original name "St. Edmund's Hill". The name was changed to Moreton Hall in 1890. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 14:24, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Probably the best way to do it is to move the school article to the name of the house, then construct the article about the building around it. That would keep Simon's original contribution and page history intact. If you want to leave a redirect, it would involve a 'move over redirect' which needs an admin, but a work around would be to create a dab page for all the 'Moreton somethings', and include the school on that, which redirects to the building. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:39, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Ah, I've just seen that there is already a dab for Moreton, so you'll just need to add the new pages to it. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:43, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Done. See Moreton Hall (Suffolk). I'll add more to it tomorrow. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 18:09, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

please check and advise

Hi,

I am not very good at this wiki service. please help me prove the swift & safe security wiki page or if you could please update it as you are a professional.

thanks & Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.175.134.117 (talk) 13:34, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Hello. The concern was WP:ADVERT, but that's not the only one. I'm afraid it's unlikely that the subject of this article, a start up company with no history of notability, will qualify for insertion in the Wikipedia for quite sometime. Please read WP:NOTABILITY, WP:GNG, and WP:ORG, and WP:NOTDIR, and the links you were given on your talk page. I know it's a lot to read, but that's unfortunately the downside of being the encyclopedia that anyone can edit. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:08, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Criterion for Speedy deletion

Hey, Kudpung, just asking you something, if there is blatant copyvios from a blog then what criterion should I put it under speedy deletion because G12 won't exactly suffice cause, the blog may not have copyright protection, however blogs are not acceptable references. Are there any templates specific to this copyvio under bad reference problem, or do I just nominate it under G12?? Please revert back as soon as possible. Debastein1 (talk)
"Lets make this world a better and more informative place" 20:12, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Same copyvio criterion for a blog. Plagiarising something from another source and claiming to be your own work is theft of intellectual property whether covered by copyright laws or not. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:59, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Unless the website or blog explictly states that its material is released under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License or the GNU Free Documentation License, it is copyright material. US law does not require an explicit © symbol or statement to assert copyright. Unless indicated otherwise, assume that anything published in print or on the internet after 1923 is copyright. Voceditenore (talk) 15:00, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Where the new page patrollers come from... part 2

Hi Kudpung, I wanted your thoughts on if this is a good idea;

Go to User talk:1966batfan#Homework 4. Scroll down to where it says something like "2. 1. Go to Special:NewPages". Read the part after that.

It appears that these instructions may be getting pasted to all of the adoptees of User:Fltyingpig, of whom there are at least three so far, and presumably going to be many more.

The instructions get some of the important ideas across, but I'm wondering if the level of information being provided in these lessons/instructions is enough for people to be going right ahead and patrolling new pages, even if they're only going to be doing three pages each?

(Maybe they'll do a lot more than three, if they like it.)

Fltyingpig is very responsive to feedback, and is currently fixing some other concerns I had about their adoption program. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 01:55, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Good morning! I'll take a look :) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:59, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, this took me over 40 minutes, but it was necessary, and thanks for pointing it out, so here goes:

• 3946 edits since 3/2011
• patrolled only 1 (one) new page
• very little participation in semi-admin areas.
• 2 articles created - it's odd that they are a memver of the WP:GOCE but their own articles are tagged for clean up.
• I may be old fashioned, but I believe barnstars to be an award for some exceptional services to Wikipedia.
• I don't think it's a very good idea to explain the use of special tools such as Igloo to (or Huggle, etc.) to very new users , and suggesting they apply for rollback rights - (WP:BEANS)
• I'm personally more concened in teaching very new users how to do NPP per WP:NPP, and I have a special set of instructions that are much simpler and easier to understand than the WP:COPYVIO page.
• I know it's a lot more hard work, but I do believe that mentorship should be tailored to the needs of each adoptee. User:1966batfan, for ex&mple, has some very specisfic problems that I think should be addressed first, rather than going through a general adoption programme.

I'm sure Fltyingpig is generally doing a good job (but should consider using a sig that reflects their username), and we need more of this, but I do regularly come across other users who are very new and inexperienced offering to mentor others. We have a set of recommended conditions for mentors somewhere, maybe those should be looked at again. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:46, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for this detailed analysis. I'll try and put together a set of suggested improvements for Fltyingpig's adoption school. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 14:14, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Detection of copyvios

Thanks again Kudpung, for helping me out by giving me the pointers while looking out for copyvios. I have been patrolling the pages created by the users of the IEP. I have been mainly going through the classes assigned to me. I do have my exams coming up, so I shall be a bit inactive. Once, they are over, I shall again resume my patrolling. I have kept a log of the pages I have sent for speedy deletion here. I hope this eases the burden that the users like you along with community is facing. Am trying my very best. Thanks for all the help and the hard work you put in everyday. I really feel inspired by the level of effort you put in. Hope one day I too can become an Administrator and defend Wikipedia like you do. If you have any issues whatsoever, feel free to revert back to me. Debastein1 (talk)
"Lets make this world a better and more informative place" 17:42, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) If you can give me the list of students you're watching over, I'll be happy to take them on; that way, you'll do better on your exams and have more free time to work with us later in the semester instead of having to catch up ;). Seriously, though, I'm more than happy to pick up some of the slack. I'm pretty good at catching copyvios. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 19:01, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Do we have a complete list yet of: all the students' user names, all the known articles, and all the ambassadors, that can be imported directly into a raw watchlist? --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:13, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Need Help

Hello Kudpung, this is Survir. Can you please protect the following pages List of programs broadcast by Zee TV and List of programs broadcast by Imagine TV. The following IP user User:109.148.210.232 constantly vandalizing these pages by adding made up/hoax names of television series to the current/former shows list (the shows that never aired on these channels). He/she is also transfering shows list of one channel to another channel. By the way, the IP address changes every few days. I have reverted so many times but he/she keeps adding false information to these plus many other articles (you can view the list edited by this user by clicking on the IP address). Please help! I will be really thankful to you! Your friend Survir (talk) 00:35, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

The disruption isn't really persisitent enough to protect the pages, but I've warned the users. You can also warn users yourself. Let me have the names of any other articles that are affected and the IPs. If the disruption persists and then I'll look again and protect the pages or block the users. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:24, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Biting newcomers

Apologies! My only intention was to speedily remove the page - not to frighten the newcomer. I see have you have already informed the account holder that he/she has made a mistake. I will write self-typed responses to this type of issue in the future. Thanks for pointing this out. Touch Of Light (talk) 02:35, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Date/time

I guess I'm just slow then... by a month... :-( Maxim_(talk) 19:18, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Naing Win Swe

Hi Kudpung,

I've put this up for discussion at AfD, per our conversation on my talkpage the other day. Just thought you'd like to know. Cheers, Yunshui (talk) 23:49, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Regression?

Hi Kudpung,

Philippe mentioned that you were looking for someone who could help you run a regression on some RfA data. Has that request been resolved, or are you still waiting? I might be able to help. If you email me the data, I should have something for you in a day or two :) Maryana (WMF) (talk) 02:01, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Maryana, no it hasn't been resolved - thank you for your kind offer. I'll get back to you later with the data.--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:55, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Interview with Wikimedia Foundation

Hello Kudpung, I hope you're well. My name is Aaron and I'm one of the Storytellers working on the 2011 fundraiser here at the Wikimedia Foundation. For this year's campaign we're seeking out and interviewing active Wikipedians like yourself, in order to produce a broader and more representative range of "personal appeals" to run come November. If you'd like to participate in this project, please email me at amuszalskiwikimedia.org. Interviews are typically conducted by phone or Skype and take between 30-90 minutes. Thanks! Aaron (WMF) (talk) 21:17, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

NPP - technical question

Hi Kudpung. I've been patrolling from the end of the queue, but notice that if someone has moved, redirected, or deleted a page before marking it patrolled, it stubbornly remains in the list (as a blue link) and there doesn't seem to be any way of fixing it. 3 examples from the end of the queue: ‎Bisection Method, Design of Keys and shafts, ‎Structural Modeling. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 11:05, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

I know about this but I'm afraid I'm not technically minded enough to ofer any explanation. I know it's frustrating to click on article just to find it's already been moved, redirected, or deleted, but I don't think there's actually going to be much effort to improve the special:new pages system because something brand new id coming up sometime time soon that will replace all this. If you're interested, I'll give you a link to what we're doing. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:12, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

That's fine. I just wanted to make sure it was a "normal" thing. Sure, give me the link. Even though NPP-ing will always be an occasional hobby for me, I'd be curious to see what's being developed. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 12:49, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

mw:New Page Triage should make NPP faster, and mw:Article creation workflow should help create higher-quality pages. →Στc. 19:29, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

New Page Triage will not help create better new pages - it can never be a substitute for the declined WP:ACTRIAL. It will increase the quality of page patrolling as a process, and will ensure that the patrollers are qualified (it's been the domain of inexperienced and very young users for too long). We don't want NPP to be faster - heaven forbid! We want it done properly, and that also means recruiting new patrollers, but ones of suitable maturity and competence. When it's launched, the new Article Creation Flow might deter new accounts from creating utterly worthless pages, and encourage serious new users to create better quality articles, but only a significant period of operation of it (at least 6 months) will return any usable stats. This all needs to be put together quickly before the IEP begins its next phase of expansion. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:50, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Notifying you

I am notifying you that I have copied the first (above) template from you to my talk page.Dipankan001 (talk) 15:09, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

I saw that already ;) --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:33, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for notifying me about that!Dipankan001 (talk) 07:17, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:William Lane Craig

Responding to RFCs

Remember that RFCs are part of Dispute Resolution and at times may take place in a heated environment. Please take a look at the relevant RFC page before responding and be sure that you are willing and able to enter that environment and contribute to making the discussion a calm and productive one focussed on the content issue at hand. See also Wikipedia:Requests for comment#Suggestions for responding.

Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:William Lane Craig. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! However, please note that your input will carry no greater weight than anyone else's: remember that an RFC aims to reach a reasoned consensus position, and is not a vote. In support of that, your contribution should focus on thoughtful evaluation of the issues and available evidence, and provide further relevant evidence if possible.

You have received this notice because your name is on Wikipedia:Feedback request service. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from that page. RFC bot (talk) 11:15, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

NPP

Any idea why deleted pages aren't disappearing from the end of the NPP backlog? I can't mark them as aptrolled, and they're filling up my screen with clicked-on links! Pesky (talk …stalk!) 11:15, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, we know about this. Will probably never get fixed. I think all dev time now is consecrated to the entirely new NPP system.--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:19, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

For now the only thing to do is use User:RHaworth's "Magic spell".--Mrmatiko (talk) 12:08, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Re: Message delivery bot

I don't believe there are any delays with the bot. However, unless one of the qualified users approve the message it will not be sent out. I should be able to review your message though. -- Nascar1996^{(Talk • Contribs)} 15:48, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that's the problem - the 'qualified' users took ten days to send the last couple of messages if you remember, and they don't appear to respond to talk page messages very much. I just would like some assurance that this next message would go out in an hour or two of making the bot request. Thanks. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:55, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, if you send the request to the bot in the next hour, I will be able to approve it and it should will be sent out. -- Nascar1996^{(Talk • Contribs)}

Well, the info for the message is not quite complete yet, we're waiting for the final go ahead from our legal department which we should have some time on Monday, but then the message should be sent as quickly as possible because its content is tied to a deadline, and that's why I'm asking in advance if there are likely to be any delays. Thanks for clarifying. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:30, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Okay. The next time I'll be able to review the request would be around 10:00 UTC. -- Nascar1996^{(Talk • Contribs)} 01:52, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Who is actually in charge of this bot? I'm surprised that with two handlers, and a clerk(?), it 's not available 24/7. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:08, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

EdoDodo is in charge of the bot. -- Nascar1996^{(Talk • Contribs)} 02:17, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Precisely, and he does not appear to be very active on his talk page ;) So to answer the original question: how much advance warning do you guys need when a message needs to be sent? Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:33, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

You can message me at my talkpage whenever you send the request to the Message Delivery Bot. -- Nascar1996^{(Talk • Contribs)} 10:27, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, will do. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:35, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

IEP - MDCG

Hello Kudpung,
We haven't formally met. I'm Arjun Mangol Kanoth, and am the onsite CA for the Machine Drawing and Computer Graphics class under the IEP. I've been acting on your messages about certain problems that arise out of our class, on IEP and other talkpages, though I never spoke on Wiki about it. This message is just to say that if you have any queries or find any problems with my class, I'm the one to contact. And yes, I'm now helping the users working on Electric Steam Boiler and Boiler design, will sort out the problems ASAP. And I apologise if you found any ineptitude on my part, managing 173 students from two different classes was no mean task. There is a lax in editing at present due to Diwali holidays here. If we step in now, it gives us time to review everything and identify problems we have missed, so after this, editing will be a much smoother process, or so I hope.
Cheers!
--The Mangol (talk) 02:46, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Arjunmangol and thank you for contacting me. I'm not actually concerned with personally reviewiing the individual creations of the students. My main concerns are for finding solutions to the problems the IEP has caused for our volunteers, the lack of experience of the campus ambassadors (you yourself have only 47 edits to manspace), and what we are going to do when the IEP enters its next phase. The page you will find most interesting to read is here. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:59, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for replying. I beg to differ, the problems caused by IEP are the problems faced by newbies. With all due respect, I must say that most of the present CAs are very well versed in the Wikipedia policies and accepted norms. I might also add that the no. of edits doesn't determine experience at this stage, its just that our scope of editing and time spared is not on the greater side. I could have been a Wikignome myself, if I had the time. I've gone through the link you sent me, as a CA I'm primarily concerned about how efficient the editing process goes about and put in all my efforts to make it a smoother one. Here is what you'll want to read.
Smiles
--The Mangol (talk) 03:26, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I am fully aware of all the pages here on en.Wiki and on MetaWiki , and I was one of the first users to bring the problem to light (see my talk page archives). I'll also point out that there were problems with the CAs' own page creations. I have also had numerous conferences with some of the major players in this issue. I've offered help in training the CAs where I can, but the organisers on the Indian side claim they have everything well in hand. It remains to be seen, but future support from the en.Wiki community may not be as forthcoming as they hoped . --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:41, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I understand your grievances Kudpung, and I really respect your diligence in keeping the Wiki precise and problem free. I assure you, we all have the best interests for the project at heart. Its just that, this is what is bound to happen when 1000+ newbies edit Wiki under the same banner, that highlights IEP and focuses the world's attention onto us. You must understand, the project was started with a dream, my country's potential and intellect of its million + students, if managed to be channeled in the right direction, will work wonders. We just have to give it time and patience. The way we would correct our children's mistakes repeatedly, the Wiki community would. This is just collaboration on a different level. Kindly bear with us.--The Mangol (talk) 04:03, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I fully understand, and perhaps more than most as I have spent 82 hours on this problem - as a volunteer. If you have really read the pages as I asked you to, you will see that I am wholly dedicated to the accuracy, expansion, and education programmes of Wikipedia, and I am doing do my best , also helping on the development of new tools and tutorials for page patrollers, to help it stay that way. However, if those in charge do not take the messages on board, my enthusiasm may change for all this, along with that of many others. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:08, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Kudpung. You have new messages at Arjunmangol's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I intend to clarify Voceditenore's point concerning me on the Wikimedia Foundation India Programs talkpage, When I mentioned 173 students, I didn't actually mean 'all on my own'.I do have one or two other CAs who are helping me with it. Its just that , though not listed as the official CA assigned to the class, I being a part of that very class, the students eventually find it easier to come to me rather than someone else outside. Thanks :) The Mangol (talk) 09:40, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

IRC channel

I'm aware that you don't use IRC that much, but do you know if there's a specific IRC channel for NPP, where NP patrollers can discuss what they're doing and ask for advice? ขอบคุณ Sp33dyphil © • © 05:15, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think there is. As long as the discussions can be kept free of MySpacey and Twitter chat, the best place for such discussions is on-Wiki where everyone can chime in with advice that can also be seen by others who follow watchlists and recent changes. A good hub for NPP questions is at WT:NPP which is watched by myself, other admins, and people with lots of experience at NPP. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:37, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Re: PANTHER JET

You templated the wrong person. You warned the person who tagged it for deletion instead of the creator. LadyofShalott 07:46, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out. It really does not happen often - I'm the one usually telling patrollers how to work (::hangs his head in shame::) --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 07:53, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

We all goof from time to time. :) LadyofShalott 08:00, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

deletion removal.. i understand my error, i update andto update and re list my article.

hi , i am new to this wiki thing

as i was writing my article on Philip Micahel wolfson you deleted it. i understand my mistake but i can't update the file because of your deletion..

11:35, 24 October 2011 Kudpung (talk | contribs) deleted "Philip Michael Wolfson" ‎ (G12: Unambiguous copyright infringement: of http://www.wolfsondesign.com/press/2011/FORMS%20Q%20BOOK%202011web.pdf (Duplication Detector report))

ChrisRidout (talk) 12:05, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Chris. Unfortunately, due to strict copyright laws, Wikipedia cannot accept any material that is copied in whole or in part from other sources. As you have the sources from where you took the information, I am you will be able to write a new article without infringing Wikipedia copyright rules. Please consider starting the new article in your user space. I have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask me. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:29, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

For newcomers...

A simple primer: Wikipedia:A Primer for newcomers

Instruction against COI: Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not about YOU

I'm hoping these two essays will prevent at least a few premature or inproper articles, and actually help newcomers better understand this place (without overwhelming newcomers with Wikispeak and unfamiliar terms. See WP:KISS). Share them if you think it will help. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.}

These essays are a very good idea. However they both have very low hits, and need far more backlinking from other guidelines and essays. I never knew about them, but now that I do I'll refer new users to them. Would you mind if I were to copyedit/rephrase parts of them? --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:02, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Probably not. :) But which parts and in what way? I know they have low hits currently, but that is likely because they are less than 2 months old. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 13:06, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

NPP

Kudpung, the legal team cleared the survey hours ago, hence why I've asked Snottywong to fire up the ion flux capacitors. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 02:38, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Replied on your WMF tp. Snottywong does not have the list and I have spent hours preparing it.--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:40, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough; I thought he was running the bot. Odd :S. It can be found here. Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 02:42, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

No, he just used a script to provide a basic list. I have merged that list from names from other sources (it took literally hours). The people at MessageDeliveryBot are pre-warned and I will be finalising the invitation with the final details. It should be ready to go in an hour. Sorry for the slight delay but it is early morning here and I've just got up. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:54, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

• That's okay :). Thanks again for all your help with this! Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 02:57, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	Thanks for making the article for me :) Lordsunkel (talk) 09:27, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! If you need any help on German bands 1974 - 1989, don't hesitate to ask. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:34, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

RfA criteria

So I just saw your criteria, and your criteria disallows reformed vandals from years ago, and/or a wrong templating. I suggest from changing it to "No well placed warnings on vandalism in the past 6 months". ~~Ebe123~~ (+) ^talk
_Contribs 10:42, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your interest. I think I have a lot of experience in RfA matters and I won't be changing it. You may wish to read WP:Advice for RfA candidates - you'll find a long list of criteria practiced by other experienced users and admins, but I wouldn't recommend telling them to change them ;) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:50, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Advertisement tag

Hello,

I recently wrote an article on COGEN Europe and saw that you gave it an advertisement tag. I modified it a bit since then, but maybe not enough. Since I am new to writing for wikipedia I was thinking that maybe you could briefly (don't want to take up to much of your time) tell me what you thought was wrong....or maybe just an example of what struck you as bias.

Thank you in advance for your reply Bogdan 007 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bogdan 007 (talk • contribs) 11:12, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi. The article is actually written like a blatant advert. Note the number of times the word COGEN apperas i capitals. I also note that all the references are to sources. Please check out our conditions for insertion of article about companies at WP:ORG. If you need more advice, please don't hesitate to ask. .

Talkback

Thanks a lot for the fast reply. I can see why you might have tagged it as an advertisement. The problem, is that the organisation is actually spelled with capital letters :). I'll try and use pronouns more and maybe refer to it by its longer name. With regard to the sources, I though I had quite a few secondary sources compared to other articles on similar sized organisations. I'll take a second look at it anyway.

Cheers Bogdan 007 (talk) 12:39, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi. I actually think the article needs a complete rewrite for neutrality, and the sources must not only be secondary and independent, they must also clearly establish WP:NOTABILITY. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:44, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Kudpung. You have new messages at Seb az86556's talk page.
Message added 12:19, 25 October 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 12:19, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Hey its me again the guy with the COGEN page.... look I've been really banging my head on how to rewrite the article, gave it a few days but I can't really think of a way in which to radically alter the way its written. It really just describes what the organisation is doing and the only reason I mentioned some specific dossiers or report was in order to achieve notability.

Anyway I did adjust it a little, deleting a sentence in which I said that the organisations aims to assure the interest of its members.... and changed the last paragraph a bit....and of course as previously mentioned made more use of pronouns. Not a radical makeover as previously mentioned.

With regard to notability, I think I covered it better than other articles that are out there on wikipedia. I know the publications are all European, but this is where the organisation conducts its activities. I have a reference from Euractiv - reference No. 8 (a very reliable an well known source) which is an interview with the managing director of Cogen Europe. I also have a reference from the European Commission which outlines one of their reports (reference No. 21) and also a few from COSPP (Cogeneration and onsite power production) - an important publication in this field - which emphasize their activities. I could have given more, but then would have had to mention more of their activities.....and apparently the article already says to much about them :).

Just a final note, I used the Friends of Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_Europe) article as a model (because it is a similar size organisation), and I don't see much difference in that article's tone and the one I wrote, and with regard to notability, mine covers it a bit better I think.

Sorry fur such a long message, but I just wanted to argue my case a bit better. If you still don't see fit to remove the advert tag or to sorta tell me specifically what bothers you about it, then I really hope that some other users out there will help me out more on this.

Thanks again for your time Bogdan 007 (talk) 09:13, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

NPP

Hey, Kudpung. I've recently started patrolling pages via NPP instead of just through filters (special page tags). So far, it seems to take me about an average of 4 minutes to assess and treat an article. I have noticed that some editors are taking 10 to 12 seconds to assess and treat an article. That seems sort of alarming to me. Is there any sort of common time it takes experienced patrollers to assess a page. Also, is there an average amount of patrol time that is too short? I'm worried that these other editors that do five pages in one minute may be causing more problems than they're solving. I know you're experienced in patrolling so I thought I'd ask you.

Also, if you have any suggestions for me outside of what I've read at WP:NPP, please let me know. OlYeller21^Talktome 22:03, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi OlYeller. We are also extremely concerned that patrollers are not following the instructions at WP:NPP and this is why we have launched a survey at here. This will help us to complete the development of some new tools for patrollers, and perhaps suggest that patrolling should be a user right. There is no fixed amount of time that should be dedicated to the patrolling of a page. If all the controls are carried out it can take as much as an hour to untangle a WP:COPYVIO, for example. I do a huge amount of page patrolling because I am also controlling the work of the patrollers; unless I come across blatant CSD pages that I can instantly delete with my admin tools, and the very few pages that do not need more than a mild maintenance tag or two, it never takes me with my experience less than around 3 minutes to patrol a page. Editors who do five pages in one minute are indeed causing far more problems than they're solving. Thank you for your support and feedback, do keep me posted. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:25, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Hey again. I have a question about improvement templates. There seems to be a grey area as to how these templates should be applied. I'll often find an article that needs 4+ but don't want to place several tags on a new article. Additionally, I want a new editor to understand the problems that the article has and ways that it can be improved in a concise, non-bite-y way. WP:NPP doesn't really say much on over-templating or vague templating. Have any suggestions?

The most common combination I find is wikify, unreferenced/refimprove, uncategorized, deadend, and orphan. Placing all seems to confuse/alarm newbies sometimes so I'm looking for a better way to handle the issue without stopping to make major edits on a page while patrolling. OlYeller21<supTalktome 15:30, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Nobody expects us to rewrite pages while we're on patrol (I do, but I'm a mug). Nevertheless all the recommended checks should be done, and stub templates and cats added wherever possible, and minor fixes such as indentation, bold lead sentence name, ref section & reflist, etc. For pages that are worth keeping, that should be enough, and it will already avoid placing some of the sillier maintenance tags. I often paste one of my custom user messages that I have in my special clipboard, such as "Thank you for your contribution of xxxxxxxx. I have done some minor fixes for you, and you may wish to return to the article and see what still needs to be done; if you need any help, don't hesitate to ask me on my talk page. Happy editing! ~~~~"

I don't believe in orphan tags, and never use them - IMHO, there is no logical reason why every page can or must be backlinked. The thing that annoys me most is long long lists of {{linkrot}} references. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:55, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Old Malvernians PR

Glad my review was helpful. I think it would be a lot of work, but I do not see getting the Old Malvernians list to FL as impossible. What part do you see as impossible? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:16, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Mainly obtaining fine deteils such as the exact dates the alumlni attended, the houses they were in, and having the same amount of text in each table cell, etc. I come from Malvern, but it was not my school, nevertheless MalCol is one of the top 5 or 6 independent schools in the UK. I'm doing this as the creator/major editor of all the Malvern articles, and coordinator of the WP:WORCS project. One of the major contributors to the Almni page is Abacchus1974 who is, I believe an older alumnus, and what he can't find, no one else probably will. When I'm in the UK, I go to a lot of schools to research for info for WP articles, but the schools are never very helpful. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:13, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I do not see houses as required, it was just a suggestion on my part (too much Harry Potter ;-) ). I also think if the birth (and if applicable) death dates were given for each person, that would also be OK. For American schools listing alumni by the class year is pretty common (so John Smith, '97 or Mary Jones, '08), but if that is not the British custom, then I would not worry about it. I think what is more important is that students have been attneding Malvern for about 150 years, so giving some indication of when they lived / when they were there is helpful to WP:PCR Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 15:56, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

This will surprise you: I'm 62 and a retired British prof, but even I am not sure what 'Class of X' means! Is it the beginning year or the graduation year? --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:38, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

What did Churchill say - the British and the Americans were two people separated by a common language? It is the year of graduation (assume because students may take longer or occasionally shorter times to graduate than expected on matriculation (entry)). Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 18:06, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

NPP question

I go thru Recently created biographies of living people everyday and do an assortment of stuff to the articles via AWB. On some of the article, I manually add a Prod, go over the article for nobility, etc. Is there an easy way to mark the those articles patrolled? Bgwhite (talk) 08:02, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

In short, I don't think so. I can't use AWB on Mac so I don't really no. How do those BLPs get into that cat anyway? In fact, ironically, we're currently doing everything in our power to get people to slow down with their tagging. To be done properly, page patrolling needs all the operations listed in WP:NPP carrying out. Currently there are editors using AWB just to post 'Wikify', 'NoCat', and 'Orphan' tags and doing nothing else. This does not help at all and simply duplicates work for others. When we get round to it, we'll these editors and ask them to stop) doing it - what with the current IEP problem, and CorenBot being down, NPP which was already in a sorry state, is now in an even bigger mess. If you find any pages like that on your travels, please consider putting a friendly warning on the patroller's talk page - manually, of course ;) or referring them to me. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:05, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood my misunderstanding. :) Long story... I use AWB to add persondata, defaultsort, do general cleanups on articles. I also tag the talk page with parameters in WikiProject Biography and add any other WikiProjects that I can remember. There is so many WikiProjects that I can't remember them all. I don't add the wikify or orphan tag and nothing else as there has to be another reason to edit the article.

The question relates to when I'm viewing the page in a web browser. There are times when an article doesn't "seem right" while viewing in AWB, so I bring it up in Firefox and go over it more. Does the article deserve a Prod, AfD, refs not reliable, etc. This is when I wonder if I can mark the page patrolled.

Recently created biographies of living people get created just after 0z everyday (when toolserver is actually working). It and other Database reports are created by User:MZMcBride. After the 0z database report runs, User:LaraBot adds WikiProject Biography to the articles talk page. Larabot doesn't add listas parameter and the article gets dumped into Category:Biography articles without listas parameter. A couple of us editors finally cleared this category out which is how I got into this mess to begin with.

FYI.. I also cleared out and view Category:Biography articles without living parameter and Category:Biography articles needing priority parameter replacement. I'm currently working on some other tracking categories. So, I see alot of new biographies that get created. Bgwhite (talk) 19:13, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I don't do any kind of automated edits or the kind of work you do automaticaly and have no experience with AWB (because I use Mac), so I can't be of much help. As far as I know, the 'Mark this page as patrolled' button is only visible when pages are opened from special:new pages./ BY all means tag pages for CSD, PROD, and BLPPROD, but you must also remember to enter the correct criteria and warn the user. AFAIK a bot will then marke the page as patrolled so that it now longer shows in special:new pages. The resof the operations you are doing are essential and I believe there are no issues when using AWB. Keep up the good work. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 19:22, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't know about essential and good work. My using AWB is not really automated edits... I still do things manually and check to make sure the edits are correct. AWB just helps me go a little faster and corrects small things (spelling mistakes or syntax) along the way that I couldn't do. I was talking with some friends on a talk page and they were mentioning some habitual problem editors. Long story short, I mentioned that they along with you and some other editors help me keep the faith and continue on with Wikipedia. I really do appreciate your level-head and great comments wherever I find them. I often think of you as the sage of Wikipedia. Thank you for all your help. Bgwhite (talk) 05:33, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the kind words Bg. Make no mistake, I've seen your edit log, and the work you do is essential. As a matter of fact I tried to use AWB on my secretary's PC last night to deliver an urgent bot message to thousands of users, but I found what I needed to do was rather a challenge. I'll have to take time to learn more about it. It's a shame I'm not an expert in more areas, but I don't think any admin can do that. Nevertheless, if ever you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask, and perhaps I can point you to the people who can help. Best, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:48, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

New Page Patrol survey

New page patrol – Survey Invitation Hello Kudpung/Archive 15-30 Oct 2011! The WMF is currently developing new tools to make new page patrolling much easier. Whether you have patrolled many pages or only a few, we now need to know about your experience. The survey takes only 6 minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist us in analyzing the results of the survey; the WMF will not use the information to identify you. If this invitation also appears on other accounts you may have, please complete the survey once only. If this has been sent to you in error and you have never patrolled new pages, please ignore it. Please click HERE to take part. Many thanks in advance for providing this essential feedback. You are receiving this invitation because you have patrolled new pages. For more information, please see NPP Survey

World class manufacturing

If World class manufacturing was a blatant copyright violation, is not the creator's user page just as bad? WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 18:32, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for being on the ball. I'll delete it. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:35, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Chaitnyasandbox

Hi. I guess you made a mistake here. You moved this sanbox from main space to another main space (Chaitanya.gayke/Sandbox). I guess you wanted to move it to User:Chaitanya.gayke/Sandbox? — Abhishek  ^Talk 08:48, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

 Done Thanks! (None of us is purfik'). --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:54, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Cool. — Abhishek  ^Talk 08:56, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Mark Sukhija

I removed the prod tag you placed on Mark Sukhija, as the article creator's (inappropriate) use of the {{hangon}} tag and the message left on the talk page indicates that deletion is not uncontroversial. I did this only in the interest of WP:AGF; I have no opinion one way or the other on the merits of deletion. Please consider opening an AfD if you still wish to pursue deletion. Thanks! —KuyaBriBri^Talk 13:47, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

 Done --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:36, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Update on IEP

In case you are not informed, the following is a link to the complete list of students of the IEP.

• Wikipedia:India Education Program/Students

Sorry I haven't been of much help lately. Debastein1 (talk) 11:00, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Google indexing of user pages

If you have read my responses to you recent message on my talk page, you will have seen that I said "I think they (user pages) shouldn't be (Google indexed), but they are". Since then I have remembered that someone or other once pointed out to me that there are actually some advantages in having them indexed. For example, sometimes the following happens. I see an article which looks like a likely copyright infringement, so I do a Google search for some of its content. Google throws up both the original page that it's a copyvio of and a user page with the same content, which would otherwise have escaped notice. I am sure have come across other circumstances too where this is an advantage, but that's the one that comes to mind now. So there are, I think, both pros and cons. JamesBWatson (talk) 19:34, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for all your feedback James. I'm not personally concerned about the indexing, but I thought it was just unusual. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:10, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Access Denied

I'm confused, I was never involved with Access Denied. Secret ^account 06:31, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

There was a link to it on your previous RfA, and as I said, I'm now in the middle of in-depth research before changing my !vote. This may take me an hour or so. If the Access Denied issues proves to be irrelevant, I will of course naturally withdraw my comment on it. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:36, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

I still don't see the link, but sounds sensible enough. Thanks Secret ^account 06:49, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

another barnstar for you!

		The Articles for Creation barnstar
		For your long and true comment at mw:Talk:Article_creation_workflow#MoodBar_comments mabdul 15:52, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Mabdull, that's very kind of you :) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:32, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Theycallmepiano

Kudpung, I've just politely declined an article by 'Piano' at AfC. I see that this was the second attempt by the same user today. I don't know what was in the first one, but if the second is identical then ... I thought you ought to know. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:58, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll look into it. The deleted post was one line with a promotional EL. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:02, 30 October 2011 (UTC)